Loss of an Adult Child

[Maddy6]

“You can shed tears that she is gone,

or you can smile because she has lived.

You can close your eyes and pray that she'll come back,

or you can open your eyes and see all she's left.

Your heart can be empty because you can't see her,

or you can be full of the love you shared.

You can turn your back on tomorrow and live yesterday,

or you can be happy for tomorrow because of yesterday.

You can remember her only that she is gone,

or you can cherish her memory and let it live on.

You can cry and close your mind,

be empty and turn your back.

Or you can do what she'd want:

smile, open your eyes, love and go on.”

~ David Harkins

[Maddy6]

Heydaddy,

I always love your insightful and thought provoking posts. I also like your kindness and compassion with so many, as well as myself. This time I am not sure if I agree with the term "career griever." The term seems harsh to me. It implies to me that I am in control of the circumstances that have happened to me, that I chose the path. A career is defined as a long term or life long activity. It is someone's chosen path for a long period, not brief, amount of time.

I hope I am not offending you by my opinion. But I find the term to be depressing to me. Tragedy has taken place in my life through the circumstances of life. I had pain that I bottled up, pushed down and went on with life. Tragedy I did not deal with. I am dealing with it now, only not as a victim. I am being proactive by facing it and seeking a support system. Almost daily I am finding improvements and successes. We are all doing the best we can, and I do not think any one of us would want the tragedies we have incurred as a career path.

I hope I did not offend you in any way. I just needed to say that because I do not think the term is correct.

Your friend,

Maddy - Rachael's mom and 5 others also.

[Kenn]

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[Susie_q512]

Susannah - I agree that medication for ones so young should be the last resort. I remember when I lost my dad at such a young age. The loss was overwhelming. I remember crying at night while alone in my bed. I remember feeling different from other kids. I dreaded the first day of school when teachers expected introductions which included telling something about your parents and siblings. I would intentionally not mention my father, but the teacher would always catch this omission and question me specifically about him. I would then have to tell my fellow classmates that my dad was dead. No other classmate had a dead parent....back then they rarely had divorced parents. I was the one who was different....the one that the other kids couldn't relate to. I didn't have a support system in place at home either. I assume that there was a belief system in place that suggested that kids are resilient and don't experience grief and loss the way adults do. I was young....I would forget. I was left on my own to sort through the emotions and pain I had experienced. As a result, depression set in early. Sleep disturbances, bed-wetting, emotional outbursts, and even hurting myself to relieve the emotional pain. I thought that my dad died because I had been bad. I thought that God was punishing me. I thought many negative and false things about myself and death. It also robbed me of my sense of safety and security. I say all of these things to say this: Being there for your grandchildren is the best thing you can do for them. Affection, tenderness, openness, and trust are the keys to helping them find their way through their own grieving process and also the processing of other traumas. Knowing they are safe, and teaching them the art of expressing their feelings and thoughts without fear of criticism and judgement is key. And you, my friend, are doing this. It's evident when I read your account of the interaction between you and Mariah. You let her know that she was safe, that she could trust you with those innermost thoughts and feelings. You validated her and acknowledged her. And you did it with love and tenderness and honesty. I also dreamed of my dad, and often they were visit dreams. I didn't share those dreams with anyone, or my thoughts and feelings for that matter. I internalized everything, and it was harmful to me. Professional counseling and guidance will probably help, but it's more important that you continue doing what you're doing....being aware and being there, in the present, for them.

Thanks to all who have responded with compassion and understanding to my recent posts. Each time I read your posts to me I hear the words, "You're okay. You're normal. You can do this. You're not alone." Everywhere else I find myself, I find that I am alone. Lost and alone in a world surrounded by people who have not experienced this type of loss and trauma. I am reminded that I am different from others. Just as I described above, I am the one that no one can really relate to....but then I come here, and I am no longer alone. I am no longer the oddity that people avoid or are uncomfortable around. There's no stunned or awkward silence when I express a thought or feeling about where I am or what I am experiencing. Each of you validate me and my journey through this darkness. You acknowledge, understand, accept and encourage with compassion. Thank you.

[Guest msnher]

Thank you, Susan!

[Jeff's Mom]

I have a question for those of you who have lost your children by their own hand. Have you experienced much shunning? Do you feel a particularly awkward silence when you speak of them in front of others? Have people left you to work through it alone? Do you feel the stigma is what I am trying to say. That it is a family shame to be buried along with them. It is now a full five months since my family has spoken to us. As if the pain is not enough they add this to the burden. A death put into another league. Not by accident or illness. They chose to so this. So why should we care. I think it is deplorable to pull away from parents that are hurting beyond belief. I just don't get it. Why even today is there still so much ignorance and stigma attached to depression?

[ericasmom]

Kate, I have known folks that lost contact with family due to suicides or accidental death through one's own doing...I agree that it is shameful of those who pull away that they cannot stand next to their friend or family in support. These are folks however, that cannot allow themselves near the reality of how some people die, they choose to stay away in order to keep their little world safe from the truth. I am so sorry that you have had this experience. There is nothing 'just' about it but unfortunately, it is not uncommon.

Susan, I know that you feel all alone in your grief, I wish I could find my old posts from when I was 6 months on this road, they reflect your words too. I remember writing that even in room full of people that I love, I felt alone. We live during those first two years especially, with one foot in this world where we have to be, and one foot in that other world where our Child must be...we cannot be all in one place anymore, we are alone in that splitting of ourselves. As parents, we automatically go to that other world and try to see our Babies, try to still be their caretaker, their Momma or Dad, but we can't get there, we just have to stand guard almost, just in case there was a mistake and our Child is sent back to our awaiting arms. It is a very lonely place the first year or two of grief. I have two sisters who are solid and wonderful in my life, and have been so involved in my grief process, but still...and my husband has been lovely too (he is not their dad and so was able to be a strength to me and my wonderful Son) and my nieces and nephews and Erica's friends have all been so very supportive, but still, in all of that, I felt that I stood alone for much of it. Not for any other reason but because I am her Momma, I had to reconcile my empty hand, the one that reached for hers when we were together. I went to stores where she and I shopped, on purpose went to them alone, to go through the clothes and pick out what I thought she would want, and then set it all down adn leave and weep. These were things I found I needed to do in order to come to terms with the whole truth of the situation. She was not coming back. I was never going to feel her large hands in mine again, and never would hear her say, " oh mom, can you buy this for me?" I was never going to see her nostrils flare in adn out when she laughed so hard she had no voice, nor would I see her twirl her dreadlocks again. I would never hear her yell from a block away her favorite line from Neil Young's song, "MOM, ROCK AND ROLL WILL NEVER DIE" and I would yell back, " YOU ARE LIKE A HURRICAINE< THERE's A STORM IN YOUR EYE" and I would never see that black ink spot on her iris again, that storm in her eye, that beautiful snowflake of a daughter, no two alike.

[Kenn]

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[Susie_q512]

Kate - Forgive me for responding since Shannon did not die by her own hand, but I believe that this is a character issue....or "lack" of character issue. I am sorry that there are those in this world who choose to be unkind.

I have a question for those of you who have lost your children by their own hand. Have you experienced much shunning? Do you feel a particularly awkward silence when you speak of them in front of others? Have people left you to work through it alone? Do you feel the stigma is what I am trying to say. That it is a family shame to be buried along with them. It is now a full five months since my family has spoken to us. As if the pain is not enough they add this to the burden. A death put into another league. Not by accident or illness. They chose to so this. So why should we care. I think it is deplorable to pull away from parents that are hurting beyond belief. I just don't get it. Why even today is there still so much ignorance and stigma attached to depression?

[Jeff's Mom]

Thanks for your kind replies. You have to know my family to get it. Appearances and good name is everything. Stiff upper lip and all that. Suicide spell weakness and failure to them. I consider myself fortunate that the ties have indeed been cut. I was the one that took out an unlisted phone number.

We sat in front of out family doctor while he explained the results of the autopsy. In short he said,"He did not need to die." "He was in perfect health." Come to think of it nobody asked us if we were prepared to offer his organs for transplant. It took them literally months before they would release the report.

I too have had experience with suicide in extended family members, friends, etc. I cannot explain this strange way that people are reacting. I have sat in restaurants when people will actually lean over and say something to the other person and then they turn and look at us. It is just horrible. So obvious.

I have reached out to a few. They were not able to find the strength or words to help. It appears to be interfering with their happy lives. I don't walk around all day long with a hang dog look either. I make a real effort to do just the opposite...to make them feel comfortable. But I have to say at this point...nuts to that! If I talk about him in a normal way they withdraw and make a hasty retreat. He was far from a drug addict or whatever. He was a clean living kid that took things into his own hands and decided he could not go on. When I reached out for help a few weeks before he died...well, nobody listened. And now they avoid me. Called our family Doc twice for help and was told he was old enough to make his own appts.

Spoke to family members at his sinking into depression. They ignored it. Then when he died they told me to take responsibility for my own family. I always have! Never, once have I shirked my responsibility as a parent or family member. Never. But now I am mad as hell! They go on with their lives intact. Mine is destroyed. And they decided to walk away. Good riddance I say.

So that about wraps it up. Sorry to rant like this. Brother...have I ever changed.

[Kenn]

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[Jeff's Mom]

You have not offended me in the least. In fact I am very much like you. I focus on every wonderful thing about my son that I can. I do not tell them how he died. I only say it was a heart problem. Unfortunately I live in a very small community. It is a given fact that they know. I could care less about any of them. It is not me that won't let it go. It is the rest of them needing to constantly remind me that is so irritating. Just when we are starting to move forward we are hit by some insensitive jerk and their comments.

Depression is very real and it hurts. The thing with my son is that he did not make any threats. Not ever. He never once attempted anything. He simply went into his room one night and did it. First and only time. He got it right the first time. He meant business. We ate dinner and we laughed and joked. How could I have known? He got up went into his room and that was the end. So people that threaten do not really want to die. It is a cry for help. If they truly mean it they will make sure it is done right up front.

He is definitely in a better place. I am convinced of that. Despite the fact my Catholic family feels otherwise. Glad to be rid of them. I am sorry for sounding so angry. Perhaps it is just surfacing now. I have lost faith in the medical profession and so many others. I wish I could feel trust and good again. Perhaps in time.

For now I will allow the comforting memories of my son to help me through this.

[Kenn]

I don't really trust many people either, but I have taken a different path to find the help I need for the wound that can't be healed. I'm the kind of person who bends over backward to try to figure out what makes people think the way they do. I've been doing it for a long time, so I have developed some habits that have really been helpful to me. If I know people are going to ask questions, or talk about me, or not like me, or what ever. I already expect it to happen sooner or later, so when it happens it doesn't have the same affect that it would if I weren't expecting it. People will be people, and people do stupid things sometimes. I know people couldn't help gossiping about what happened to my daughter, and when I heard some things I was expecting it, so it didn't hurt me too bad. When I found out some things that were being said I was able to set the record straight with some people, but I didn't let it depress me when I found out that a lot of people were telling a lot of different stories about what they thought happened, and I couldn't do anything about that. That is the nature of people, we all want to know, so we all fall pray to gossip sooner of later. I really try not to allow things I can't do anything about hurt me, things like the gossip of busybodies, and the tongues of fools.

I hope you can give up some of your anger and just recognize idiots for what they are, it really is you who will be hurt if you don't. Have a good night my friend.

You have not offended me in the least. In fact I am very much like you. I focus on every wonderful thing about my son that I can. I do not tell them how he died. I only say it was a heart problem. Unfortunately I live in a very small community. It is a given fact that they know. I could care less about any of them. It is not me that won't let it go. It is the rest of them needing to constantly remind me that is so irritating. Just when we are starting to move forward we are hit by some insensitive jerk and their comments.

Depression is very real and it hurts. The thing with my son is that he did not make any threats. Not ever. He never once attempted anything. He simply went into his room one night and did it. First and only time. He got it right the first time. He meant business. We ate dinner and we laughed and joked. How could I have known? He got up went into his room and that was the end. So people that threaten do not really want to die. It is a cry for help. If they truly mean it they will make sure it is done right up front.

He is definitely in a better place. I am convinced of that. Despite the fact my Catholic family feels otherwise. Glad to be rid of them. I am sorry for sounding so angry. Perhaps it is just surfacing now. I have lost faith in the medical profession and so many others. I wish I could feel trust and good again. Perhaps in time.

For now I will allow the comforting memories of my son to help me through this.

[Susie_q512]

Oh Kate, you are so right....he did mean business that night, and without warning or indication he took care of that business. I struggle with suicidal thoughts, and I never reveal those thoughts to anyone when I am entertaining them....never. I have attempted suicide 3 times. Not a single word to anyone. People were home, but not a word spoken by me. Once I was in the middle of an argument with my husband, went into the bathroom, downed 2 bottles of prescription pills, came out, got my pillow and went to bed....not a single word....no threat....no indication.....and no explanation as to why I lived.

I read a quote here once, possibly posted by Susannah, but I think that she was quoting Lorri: Get angry....get good and damn angry....something like that. Anyway, anger isn't always a bad thing. It serves a purpose. So, if you've pushed the anger underneath the surface, maybe it's time for it to come back up to the surface? Maybe you are right on target, and this is the right time for you to acknowledge it and honor it by giving it voice and life? Anger can defeat us or it can propel us forward and into action. I say embrace the anger, but resist becoming bitter.

I have also read or heard about Catholic beliefs regarding suicide, and my hope is that you do not believe in that doctrine. There is no hope or peace to be found there. I believe your son...all of our children....are safe. They are whole and they are surrounded by love, beauty and peace.

You have not offended me in the least. In fact I am very much like you. I focus on every wonderful thing about my son that I can. I do not tell them how he died. I only say it was a heart problem. Unfortunately I live in a very small community. It is a given fact that they know. I could care less about any of them. It is not me that won't let it go. It is the rest of them needing to constantly remind me that is so irritating. Just when we are starting to move forward we are hit by some insensitive jerk and their comments.

Depression is very real and it hurts. The thing with my son is that he did not make any threats. Not ever. He never once attempted anything. He simply went into his room one night and did it. First and only time. He got it right the first time. He meant business. We ate dinner and we laughed and joked. How could I have known? He got up went into his room and that was the end. So people that threaten do not really want to die. It is a cry for help. If they truly mean it they will make sure it is done right up front.

He is definitely in a better place. I am convinced of that. Despite the fact my Catholic family feels otherwise. Glad to be rid of them. I am sorry for sounding so angry. Perhaps it is just surfacing now. I have lost faith in the medical profession and so many others. I wish I could feel trust and good again. Perhaps in time.

For now I will allow the comforting memories of my son to help me through this.

[Maddy6]

“You can shed tears that she is gone,

or you can smile because she has lived.

You can close your eyes and pray that she'll come back,

or you can open your eyes and see all she's left.

Your heart can be empty because you can't see her,

or you can be full of the love you shared.

You can turn your back on tomorrow and live yesterday,

or you can be happy for tomorrow because of yesterday.

You can remember her only that she is gone,

or you can cherish her memory and let it live on.

You can cry and close your mind,

be empty and turn your back.

Or you can do what she'd want:

smile, open your eyes, love and go on.”

~ David Harkins

[Susie_q512]

Maddy - I can only speak for myself, but my problems are not related to medication. I don't like the sleep aide medications either....they give me vivid dreams which result in restless sleep. I also have a strong tendency to walk in my sleep, so yet another reason I am not comfortable taking those types of medications. The instances that I spoke of occurred many years ago, two before I ever had kids, and one attempt about 15 years ago. Now I seek professional help when I can tell I'm headed into trouble. My problem is that I am bi-polar and have also struggled with depression since early childhood. I do take a low dose of an antidepressant daily, and something for anxiety as well. I've gained some wisdom over the course of my life. I wasn't diagnosed with bi-polar until less than 2 years ago. Had I been properly diagnosed sooner, and been able to educate myself about this illness, well things in my life may have been different. I also did not have a supportive husband....he ridiculed me and belittled me and shamed me. Depressive states are easier for me to recognize....the manic episodes are the ones that get me....they seem to hold more threat than being depressive....even the extreme depressive state is better than a full blown manic state. But I am learning to recognize mania. Sometimes it is subtle and doesn't last long, like a rapid cycle. Other times is long lasting and it builds with time. Took months the last manic episode I had before I considered the possibility that I was in the manic state. I called the doctor immediately and was seen the following morning. Got meds, took them as prescribed and got through it. My husband and daughter know that I am bi-polar, and I have been very open and honest about it with family and friends....the running joke is that if I'm acting crazy, then I probably am crazy...call the doctor

[mikesmomrs]

Kate: first, let me say that it is so good to see you (and SUSAN) posting again. We have missed both of you. The second thing is that I just wanted you to know that not all catholics believe in the doctrine regarding suicide. I have been Catholic all my life, with the usual lapses that can occur when, sadly, life gets in the way and the really important things fall by the wayside. When the girls started school, I felt that it was important to get them into the more 'formal' way of things such as going to church to profess our faith, to partake in a community of the faithful, to seek a greater sense of family, among other things. With hubby being in the Air Force for 26 years, we often felt as though we were kind of adrift...far from family, not in one place long enough to make good friends with others, etc., and we sought out the formal "belonging" that we felt at the time we could find by actually belonging to and attending a church. Anyway, I digress. What I set out to write was that I have aways believed that a being who is portrayed as a most loving, kind 'father' surely would never 'condemn' one of His children, turn them away, when they are at their most vulnerable, hurting time of their precious lives. I will never believe that He would , at that devestating time in their lives, turn away from that desperate need being experienced by this precious child of His. I am so, so sorry thzt your family has responded to you in the condemning way that they have. Your sorrow over the loss of your sweet son is true., soul-searing sorrow, to the core of your being, and I am so sorry that those around you...family or friends...have not responded to that sorrow because of the 'how.' Shame on them!

[Susie_q512]

Thank you for your kind response to Kate. Beautifully conveyed.

Kate: first, let me say that it is so good to see you (and SUSAN) posting again. We have missed both of you. The second thing is that I just wanted you to know that not all catholics believe in the doctrine regarding suicide. I have been Catholic all my life, with the usual lapses that can occur when, sadly, life gets in the way and the really important things fall by the wayside. When the girls started school, I felt that it was important to get them into the more 'formal' way of things such as going to church to profess our faith, to partake in a community of the faithful, to seek a greater sense of family, among other things. With hubby being in the Air Force for 26 years, we often felt as though we were kind of adrift...far from family, not in one place long enough to make good friends with others, etc., and we sought out the formal "belonging" that we felt at the time we could find by actually belonging to and attending a church. Anyway, I digress. What I set out to write was that I have aways believed that a being who is portrayed as a most loving, kind 'father' surely would never 'condemn' one of His children, turn them away, when they are at their most vulnerable, hurting time of their precious lives. I will never believe that He would , at that devestating time in their lives, turn away from that desperate need being experienced by this precious child of His. I am so, so sorry thzt your family has responded to you in the condemning way that they have. Your sorrow over the loss of your sweet son is true., soul-searing sorrow, to the core of your being, and I am so sorry that those around you...family or friends...have not responded to that sorrow because of the 'how.' Shame on them!

[mikesmum]

I have a question for those of you who have lost your children by their own hand. Have you experienced much shunning? Do you feel a particularly awkward silence when you speak of them in front of others? Have people left you to work through it alone? Do you feel the stigma is what I am trying to say. That it is a family shame to be buried along with them. It is now a full five months since my family has spoken to us. As if the pain is not enough they add this to the burden. A death put into another league. Not by accident or illness. They chose to so this. So why should we care. I think it is deplorable to pull away from parents that are hurting beyond belief. I just don't get it. Why even today is there still so much ignorance and stigma attached to depression?

Kate ~ I found it hard to believe Mike was responsible in any way for ending his life. Not sure if it was the social stigma, the thought I failed him (again), or just disbelief that he wasn't 'strong enough' to face life head on.

I attended a Compassionate Friends meeting here in our town. The lady who runs it lost her son in a car accident, 10yrs ago. He was overtaking on a curve, lost control and hit a tree. The first meeting was full of mum's who's children were killed in road trauma. Some were DUI, some were just inexperienced. At this and the next meeting the focus was more on ambulance response times, what happens when they get dispatched, could their child have survived if the ambulance was right there when they crashed. For me it as if I was still a dispatcher dealing with the public.

The third meeting I talked about Mike taking prescription meds, the coroners report was pending but the toxicology showed high levels of Oxycodiene. There was a definite shift in 'the love'. Not from those at the meeting, but the woman who ran it. She rang my husband that night and suggested that perhaps the meetings weren't suitable for me. She sited my 'anger', my grief as being a concern. I couldn't believe it.

Mal had know this family for many years. He attended her son who was DOA. He also attended her other son who is a diabetic. He sat me down and explained that Mary was a devout Catholic. Her beliefs and her faith were her shield. She would ask why Mal didn't get there sooner, perhaps he could have saved her son.

Ironically, two other mum's who had lost their sons to suicide got similar treatment.

So in essence, yes from the very group that were formed to help me ease my grief I felt the backlash of having a child who didn't die 'appropriately'.

As for why there is still such a stigma and attitude to those whose family suicide I have to go with the idea that its ingrained teachings, ignornace and a 'it would never happen to us' mentality. Openess and education is slowly altering people's attitudes, but the process is glacial.

In my early years I attended church regularly. Back then in the 60's the ideas of a God who punished was touted. As I grew older I came to believe that this wouldn't be the case. A 'god' who was good was a premise I prefer to adhere to.

Micheal did take his own life. I believe with all my being that he was met by family that went before and wrapped in light, free of the earthly bounds that saw him lost for so long....Peace out Indigos

[Leaf]

Hi,

My son James died last June 11,2011. i am in so much sorrow and grief. He was only 37yrs old. i know he is with the Lord because he was a true believer.

He graduated from seminary with an MAA degree and was looking at different schools around the country to obtain a PH.D in some area of theology. We found out

in Jan. 2011 that he had a rare form of cancer; called goblet cell carcinoid. They told us only about one half to one per cent of population gets this type of cancer and people are generally much older when they get it. James notified family and friends when we first found out about this. It really made him so sad and depressed and myself as well. i didn't want to believe he would die from this, so i just prayed and had many others pray, churches and more churches. James had a major operation in May. It involved removing all the visible cancer and 5 organs from his body. They then put in chemo and leave it in his abdomen for 2 hrs., moving him back and forth on the bed. the chemo is heated to 102 degrees.They suction it all out then and close him back up. He survived the operation very well but he had major complications in the weeks that followed: with his left lung,an absess, respiratory, and other problems. His blood pressure would drop very low every 2-3 days. The last day his b/p dropped low again; they gave him medicene to get it up but he also needed blood, which they didn't have right on hand. I asked the doctor why they didn't give him the blood? He said it wouldn't have gotten there in time. they gave him CPR but after reviving him once for about 2 min. they lost him again. thank you if you took the time to read this. i am very sad always. James and i lived together for many years. i miss him so, so much and always will. i really don't want to keep on living myself. i am praying every day for God to take me.

Jessica O'L or Leaf

Maddy - I can only speak for myself, but my problems are not related to medication. I don't like the sleep aide medications either....they give me vivid dreams which result in restless sleep. I also have a strong tendency to walk in my sleep, so yet another reason I am not comfortable taking those types of medications. The instances that I spoke of occurred many years ago, two before I ever had kids, and one attempt about 15 years ago. Now I seek professional help when I can tell I'm headed into trouble. My problem is that I am bi-polar and have also struggled with depression since early childhood. I do take a low dose of an antidepressant daily, and something for anxiety as well. I've gained some wisdom over the course of my life. I wasn't diagnosed with bi-polar until less than 2 years ago. Had I been properly diagnosed sooner, and been able to educate myself about this illness, well things in my life may have been different. I also did not have a supportive husband....he ridiculed me and belittled me and shamed me. Depressive states are easier for me to recognize....the manic episodes are the ones that get me....they seem to hold more threat than being depressive....even the extreme depressive state is better than a full blown manic state. But I am learning to recognize mania. Sometimes it is subtle and doesn't last long, like a rapid cycle. Other times is long lasting and it builds with time. Took months the last manic episode I had before I considered the possibility that I was in the manic state. I called the doctor immediately and was seen the following morning. Got meds, took them as prescribed and got through it. My husband and daughter know that I am bi-polar, and I have been very open and honest about it with family and friends....the running joke is that if I'm acting crazy, then I probably am crazy...call the doctor

[Susie_q512]

Jessica - I am sorry to here of your son's battle with cancer and his passing. The loss of a child is devastating and nothing in life can prepare us for the hell that follows in its wake. I am only 5 months into this dark and lonely journey, so I don't know if I can offer any real encouragement or comfort to you, but I can tell you that I understand what you are experiencing. My 16 year old daughter, Shannon, was killed in a car accident about a mile from our home. We hugged goodbye, exchanged I love you's, and about 3 minutes later she was dead. Many here are like us, new to this journey and fumbling their way blindly through the darkness and hopelessness of this new life. But there are many others here who are farther along on this journey, this new and unwanted life, than we are. They offer much needed encouragement, understanding, acceptance, comfort and wisdom. We will reach out to you and offer our hearts to you and hold your hand as you try to find your footing. Wishing you peace tonight.

[Maddy6]

1329985585' post='84321']

Hi,

My son James died last June 11,2011. i am in so much sorrow and grief. He was only 37yrs old. i know he is with the Lord because he was a true believer.

He graduated from seminary with an MAA degree and was looking at different schools around the country to obtain a PH.D in some area of theology. We found out

in Jan. 2011 that he had a rare form of cancer; called goblet cell carcinoid. They told us only about one half to one per cent of population gets this type of cancer and people are generally much older when they get it. James notified family and friends when we first found out about this. It really made him so sad and depressed and myself as well. i didn't want to believe he would die from this, so i just prayed and had many others pray, churches and more churches. James had a major operation in May. It involved removing all the visible cancer and 5 organs from his body. They then put in chemo and leave it in his abdomen for 2 hrs., moving him back and forth on the bed. the chemo is heated to 102 degrees.They suction it all out then and close him back up. He survived the operation very well but he had major complications in the weeks that followed: with his left lung,an absess, respiratory, and other problems. His blood pressure would drop very low every 2-3 days. The last day his b/p dropped low again; they gave him medicene to get it up but he also needed blood, which they didn't have right on hand. I asked the doctor why they didn't give him the blood? He said it wouldn't have gotten there in time. they gave him CPR but after reviving him once for about 2 min. they lost him again. thank you if you took the time to read this. i am very sad always. James and i lived together for many years. i miss him so, so much and always will. i really don't want to keep on living myself. i am praying every day for God to take me.

Jessica O'L or Leaf

Leaf,I am so very sorry for your loss and pain of losing your precious son. I did what you describe also. I wanted to die, so desperate was my desire that I too would pray to die. I would never take my life and intentionally leave my children without a mother. But I thought that if I got a disease, or died in an accident. I would not be responsible. I prayed daily for God to take me. The pain was so great. Then I was alone in my suffering and truly thought I was crazy. Until recently finding this site, I did not know others went through that too. I like what someone on here said recently, that a part of us is in the next world trying to care for our child. Also, I felt as if a part of me died. I felt as if I died with my child. I felt like the walking dead. I was dead inside, yet continued to live only because my body did.

You are not alone, and many others of us have felt like you. Itis the most horrible tragic thing I have ever lived through in my life. I am so very sorry.

Love,Maddy- Rachael's mom and 5 others also

[Guest msnher]

Dropping by to send love and light.

[Maddy6]

Trudi,My heart broke as I read your story about how you were treated when you went to the Compassionate Friends meeting. I have never been to one of those meetings, but I would think their name says what they are supposed to be. It is so very sad that you were treated like that and that lady was so heartless and cruel. At a time when you were so very vulnerable, in need of possibly even more understanding and compassion and she kicks you out of the group? I am sorry but, this make me angry. The God I know does not know agree with these people. I am so very, very sorry for what they did to you and the pain and rejection that lady directed toward you. Certainly not defending that lady, but a friend helped me to gain understanding recently. I had shared with you all how my Digital Art professor had criticized my artwork, how he told me a parent, or a mom did not feel the way my painting described, concerning the loss of a child. My wise friend told me it was possibly because he had issues of his own from the loss of his baby that, he, had not dealt with. She said perhaps he was not there to support his wife and did not want to accept that she may have felt like that. Anyway, it helped me to realize that sometimes our grief creates a problem for someone because of issues that they have. In our grief, sometimes we can be extremely honest. For me, I was exposing a very vulnerable area in my attempt to be understood about my pain. My honesty made my prof uncomfortable for a reason. When I realized that it really helped me. I just I guess what I am saying is that perhaps that lady had issues in her own background she had not dealt with. While what they do makes me angry, it helps me to realize that it's their own issues that cause them to be rejecting. And, it is certainly not God on their side. Just my thoughts.....

Maddy

[Kenn]

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[JD's Mom, Becky]

Deleted

[Maddy6]

Heydaddy,Have you ever heard, or read that teaching that says how our culture does not expose us to death? I think you are right about how people do not realize the pain suicide will cause. . They do not understand what we have been through. Is it not a cultural issue? Just my thoughts.......I hope I have not offended anyone. I would not intentionally do that, and I ask you to please forgive me if I have.

Maddy

[Jeff's Mom]

Sincere thanks to all of you for your kind words of encouragement and support. I have read your posts and you are so right in your comments. I would like to say one thing however. it is not the gossipy tongue wagging that is hurting me. I can take it. Honestly I can. It is the disservice they are showing to my son who did not earn their disdain. This young man was a friend to all. He was old before his time. The guy who everyone dumped on with their problems. He never let them down. True to the end. Never judgemental towards a living person. Not ever. Always looked for the goodness in everyone. Yet, they take him down like he was weak. It disgusts me.

Mental health issues are painful to deal with. They cannot be swept under a carpet and just dissolve. It doesn't happen that way. Putting people into hospital and drugging them up is not the answer either. MONEY and tons of it needs to be poured into Mental Health Research into finding new ways to handle these issues. Better and more effective ways in helping these poor suffering and misunderstood human beings...while helping them integrate into society successfully is what is needed. Teach your children in early in life to understand that it is an illness to be met with compassion and caring. It is an illness. Same as any other. And it needs to he dealt with by compassion and understanding and proper treatment. Perhaps in time, but most likely not my lifetime... things will improve. People are afraid of what they do not understand.

My anger is not something I am pleased to see surface. it took a LONG TIME to come out. I tried so hard to block and tell myself it was something that I had to get a handle on. But I in all good conscience I can not sit back and allow an injustice to occur towards a wonderful and gentle young man that did no harm to anyone. His death has blown a hole in my heart so huge that nothing will ever fill it again. I am changed. I need to learn how to live my life again and live it successfully without him in it. I can honestly say that the death of a child is the hardest thing any human can be expected to endure. I will not put a smile on my face any longer to make others feel ok with the situation. It is not ok. He could be alive today had some individuals taken him seriously. That is where the education comes in. Even for Doctors. We are all human and make mistakes. And so are they. Admit it. Just say I BLEW IT! That I can accept. To put it back on our shoulders and walk away? No way.

As to my faith? I have a strong faith in God. I do not for one minute believe in the Catholic teachings regarding suicide. There is just no way. It is positively and absolutely wrong. Controlling people out of fear is no way to go. MY sister's comments about constantly lighting candles at church for him actually really puts me off. He DOES NOT NEED IT! He was a good person.

Well this is not getting me anywhere today. I need to pick myself up and keep going. Focus on some positives. I live in a small community. Very small indeed. There are three young people who have died in my area very recently. One was a lovely young woman that fought for about five years with a brain tumour. Another was a young girl that had knee surgery and suffered a clot to her lung. Died instantly. And my son. Not one of them have offered me any words of comfort. There is a silence wherever I go. In her case they can not stop talking about how courageous she was. I am a parent too. I feel the pain no less then they do. He was my son and I loved him. This is quite literaly the only place I feel I can come and talk openly about what is going on. It is a life saver.

[Kenn]

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[Maddy6]

1330008928' post='84329']

Hi friends,

I am too disjointed today to name each one of you, but I read everyday, and feel and understand your pain. More and more I am met with the realization that outside of here on this forum, there is little understanding. Even people that have been close to my situation seem tired of me bringing up the subject of my son, Jared Daniel (JD), and especially don't seem to engage with me with all the questions I have regarding the circumstances. I can't talk during the week to hubby, as he has to get up and go to work and teach young children about the merits of good character, and talking about these subjects just pull him down.

Yesterday, I got a very confusing report filed by the Fire Department here, which listed time of 911 calls and response time, etc., and it was a bit overwhelming. How on earth am I going to bear reading an autopsy report when it finally is available? I made the mistake of trying to google to find out how long it usually takes to get an autopsy report back and why, and in the process read what they do.... why did I do that?? OMG, my poor baby boy... just add insult to injury.... I know he was gone... I know he didn't feel what they did... but it's excruciating for me to think of that beautiful baby boy I brought into the world 15 years 5 months and 11 days earlier having to be ripped apart. Nobody asked our permission to do that, is it customary? If it is because they are investigating possible criminal charges, and need that evidence, then I can understand it, but then it only brings more anger that the driver just couldn't be completely truthful and avoid the necessity.

From the moment of this, I have tried to be compassionate, but the lies that have been told since, keep coming to light, and it shakes my thoughts of humanity, til I feel I can't trust anyone or anything. Everyday, I pray that God will continue to give me strength to endure, and that he will not give peace to the offenders until they speak truth. I held this woman's hand, the one that killed my son, and begged her just to tell me the absolute truth, as we are all human, all make mistakes, and now I know for fact the words she spoke to me were absolute lies.

Becky,

I am so very sorry for your pain. So very sorry for so many questionable things surrounding JD's death and the accident. I too have the husband who has to go to work. Actually he is grateful I have found this site because he sees the improvement in my mental outlook. He sees the glimmer in me of starting to try to live again. He wants to remain loyal to me and help me and stand by me in my pain, but I think it hurts him to see me in pain. He wants to fix it. He has always been like that he wants to fix it and he can't. I end up dragging him down. He forgave himself in the beginning, a long time ago. He told me to do the same. I thought it was bizarre how he could just move on like that. I think there is a difference between men and women in grief.

.

Maddy - mom to Rachael and her 5 siblings

[Kenn]

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[Jeff's Mom]

The single best thing I have going for me is knowing that nothing anybody says or does can ever hurt my daughter again. I don't worry about what people think of my daughter, what they think can't hurt her. She isn't worrying about the things some people have said. I know she is happy, and she isn't hurting because someone has said something nasty about her. She wouldn't want me worrying about it either. I also don't care what anybodies religious beliefs are either, I know my daughter will never shed another tear. Some people's doctrines are just plain stupid in my eyes, but they hold on to them until their loved one dies and then they hope they were wrong. We can have faith in God believing that He has a plan and everything is going exactly as He knew it would. There is coming a day when there will be no more suffering, but until then those of us living in this world will have to face it when it comes. When this life is over, all suffering will end. I choose to believe that our loved ones are alive happier than they have ever known. Our minds can't comprehend how good it is in the place they now call home. I pray that you have a good day Kate.

Thanks for your encouragement. I do understand what you are saying. I too have a very strong faith. That is what has helped me to carry this heartache for two years. You know the poem Footprints? Well, He has been carrying me for ages now. I need to find strength to give him a break! I agree about them being ina much better place. No doubt whatsoever. But oh, how I miss him.

[Jeff's Mom]

Becky,

I am so very sorry for your pain. So very sorry for so many questionable things surrounding JD's death and the accident. I too have the husband who has to go to work. Actually he is grateful I have found this site because he sees the improvement in my mental outlook. He sees the glimmer in me of starting to try to live again. He wants to remain loyal to me and help me and stand by me in my pain, but I think it hurts him to see me in pain. He wants to fix it. He has always been like that he wants to fix it and he can't. I end up dragging him down. He forgave himself in the beginning, a long time ago. He told me to do the same. I thought it was bizarre how he could just move on like that. I think there is a difference between men and women in grief.

Anyway, my daughter's boyfriend died with her on the same night. They both had autopsies. My daughter had a wonderful, kind funeral home that was very sensitive. Her boyfriend's funeral home only prepared him around 2 hours before. I knew this info because of a phone call our funeral home made concerning some things, and his funeral home did not even get the body until then. Anyway, he looked terrible when he was laid out. Just by viewing him I could see what was likely done. They did extensive testing on him because he had no drug history and there were lots of questions. He was 6' 5" and 300 lbs., yet he died at the same time as a 5'6" 120 lb girl? Because of her history, apparently they wanted to really test him more fully. Anyway, the thought of the autopsy destroys me. My precious, beautiful child. Her sweet, laid back, big teddy bear of a boyfriend. I knew, I could feel something around her body in the casket. I didn't know and do not want to ever go there in my thoughts. The thought is just so painful. An autopsy on top of their death is too painful to think about. I just can't. Thank you though for talking about it. I have never been able to share those thoughts with anyone.

I hope I have not offended anyone in any way with my thoughts and ramblings. I would never want to, or intend to do that, and am sorry if I have.

Maddy - mom to Rachael and her 5 siblings

Becky, I agree with Maddy. I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. Hearing the results of the autopsy is very difficult. As far as to why it takes so long there are any number of reasons. They could be very, very busy at the coroner's office, slow to get the final sign off, slow for toxicology reports coming in, etc.

As far as they explained it to me there are five cause of death. Determined, accidental, murder, suicide and undetermined. When there is doubt surrounding a sudden death it is law that they perform an autopsy. Sometime the family will request one to be sure of the exact reason for their loved one's death. When a young person dies so suddenly and without apparent health issues they need to take samples of all tissues to send for a toxicology report. That can take ages. The pathologist then writes up their report and it needs to be signed of by the Head Coroner. If there is any reason to find any question it will be held back. No stone is left unturned. It can be an extremely frustrating and anxious time for family members to wait to hear that final news. The autopsy is done with the utmost of respect and dignity. These are professional Doctors and treat the body with respect. It is also their job and they take it very seriously. Rest assured that Jared was treated with dignity.

[Susie_q512]

IHeydaddy - Mental illness is a tough battlefront. We fight our mind, we fight the stigma associated with it, we fight the shame and embarrassment too. People with mental illness are not bad people....bad seeds. We are good people who are capable of love, compassion, gentleness and humor....really not much different from other good people in society. It's not uncommon for those suffering from mental illness to self medicate with drugs and alcohol, and therein lies yet another monster to battle....a monster that further destroys the life of many people. And we cannot leave out the self-loathing. We hate ourselves with such intensity. We hate ourselves because we do not understand how we can screw up so often, how we can continue to hurt those we love. We lose hope, and we begin thinking that all we do is cause pain and problems for our families. We start thinking that it would be better for all involved if we just "went away". We wonder if peace can be found should we die. Often we just want a break from the intense feelings and maddening thoughts that beat us down. I have found that during a depressive state, I am much more likely to contemplate suicide and the fallout it would cause. When I am in a manic state, I struggle with urges to harm myself in a very violent manner. Urges are very different from contemplating suicide. They are strong, and for me, the image in my mind....the actual action of harming myself, is on constant replay....it is a visual experience for me. I was told by a psychiatrist once that for a person with mental illness there is rational in the irrational. Such powerful and truthful words. We may not be thinking logically, or sanely, but it sure does seem logical at the time. One day, on the other side of this life, there will be healing for us....we will become whole and complete in that blessed place where our angels now reside with a God who loves unconditionally. Thank you for sharing with us about your daughter's struggles. No judgement here.

Becky - I know how difficult it is to read the official police reports and the details contained within those pages. I was fortunate that Shannon did not require an autopsy. I am still awaiting the Coroner's Report, and I am sure that reading the details within it will tear my heart into yet again. I was able to speak with the coroner at the accident scene, and he told me that he knew the cause of her death, so there was no need for an autopsy...only a recording of the obvious injuries which resulted in her death. Prayers for peace, my friend.

Kate - (((HUGS)))

[vivkib]

Kate and all others who have questions and struggles about loosing thier children to suicide, this has taken me days to get up the courage to comment. Please bare with me as I'm still not sure of the words to use. First let me say I do not believe suicide will keep our children from Heaven. I believe God understands and cried with them, and us, on the horrible day the decision was made to stop thier pain for what ever reason. I believe in a loving and forgiving God. Now, with that said, I don't know what catagory to place Kevin's death. His death was an accident but it was an accident by his own hand. He hung himself on the doorknob of his bedroom door. Cause of death was ruled accidental asphyxiation with complications due to auto eroticasphixyation. This practice goes by many different names and although alot of people who participate in it do it for the (drug-free) high it produces, and I do believe that was the case for Kevin, it also has a sexual content seen by people in genaral as a perversion. Kate, you asked if others feel a different vibe from people when they hear about your loosing your beautiful son to suicide. I don't call how I lost Kevin suicide but I do feel and see the attitude change in them when the learn the truth. They didn't know my son, they don't know the love and light he gave off, they don't know he would drop anything at a moments notice to help his family and friends, they don't know what a sense of humor he had, they don't know what a strong christian he was, they didn't know him but they feel justified in judging him because of how he died. How fair if that? Then to hear people say if you take your oun life you will never be let into Heaven is just crazy talk. How our children died in no way takes away from who they were. I do not believe how they died changes the love and acceptence God has for them. We know where our beautiful children are and that when our time comes they will be waiting with open arms and a peace to share with us. Until them they sit with Jesus and watch over us and pray for us to make it on this rocky road, giving us a helping hand at times we need it most. Anyway, I think I've said enough. I hope some of it makes sense. Hugs and prayers to all. Vivian-Kevin's Mom

[Jeff's Mom]

Kate and all others who have questions and struggles about loosing thier children to suicide, this has taken me days to get up the courage to comment. Please bare with me as I'm still not sure of the words to use. First let me say I do not believe suicide will keep our children from Heaven. I believe God understands and cried with them, and us, on the horrible day the decision was made to stop thier pain for what ever reason. I believe in a loving and forgiving God. Now, with that said, I don't know what catagory to place Kevin's death. His death was an accident but it was an accident by his own hand. He hung himself on the doorknob of his bedroom door. Cause of death was ruled accidental asphyxiation with complications due to auto eroticasphixyation. This practice goes by many different names and although alot of people who participate in it do it for the (drug-free) high it produces, and I do believe that was the case for Kevin, it also has a sexual content seen by people in genaral as a perversion. Kate, you asked if others feel a different vibe from people when they hear about your loosing your beautiful son to suicide. I don't call how I lost Kevin suicide but I do feel and see the attitude change in them when the learn the truth. They didn't know my son, they don't know the love and light he gave off, they don't know he would drop anything at a moments notice to help his family and friends, they don't know what a sense of humor he had, they don't know what a strong christian he was, they didn't know him but they feel justified in judging him because of how he died. How fair if that? Then to hear people say if you take your oun life you will never be let into Heaven is just crazy talk. How our children died in no way takes away from who they were. I do not believe how they died changes the love and acceptence God has for them. We know where our beautiful children are and that when our time comes they will be waiting with open arms and a peace to share with us. Until them they sit with Jesus and watch over us and pray for us to make it on this rocky road, giving us a helping hand at times we need it most. Anyway, I think I've said enough. I hope some of it makes sense. Hugs and prayers to all. Vivian-Kevin's Mom

Vivian...I have to make this quick as I have an appt. in an hour. I agree with you. I also am reading from what you are saying that Kevin's death was an accident. I feel that what I am trying to convey here to others...those who don't get it is that the cycle of stigma and abuse attached to mental illness needs to be broken. Now. If we constantly comment that we are tough and can take the vibes and jeers then we are allowing it to continue. We need to face this somewhat as one would a child that is out of line and needs to be put into place in order to learn the correct behaviour. Forgiveness is all find and dandy... but as well as that people need to stop name calling, etc. I mean how many names are used to describe a person that has issues? Nut case, mental case, idiot, nut bar, three bricks short a load, etc. That is so wrong! It cuts the person's self esteem right to the core. It attacks their very sense of self worth. How can they honestly be expected to function in a world as best as they can when they are being laughed at? Education, increased and improved programs for people and an awareness that this is a very real illness as real as anything below the neck is the only thing that is going to make a change.

I would love to see more government funding placed in this area. Have to get moving.

I am so sorry for your loss. I truly am! I know he is in a wonderful place free from all pain and hurt. Thank you for responding. God Bless.

Kate

[JD's Mom, Becky]

Deleted

[Kenn]

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[Maddy6]

1330025770' post='84354']

Kate and all others who have questions and struggles about loosing thier children to suicide, this has taken me days to get up the courage to comment. Please bare with me as I'm still not sure of the words to use. First let me say I do not believe suicide will keep our children from Heaven. I believe God understands and cried with them, and us, on the horrible day the decision was made to stop thier pain for what ever reason. I believe in a loving and forgiving God. Now, with that said, I don't know what catagory to place Kevin's death. His death was an accident but it was an accident by his own hand. He hung himself on the doorknob of his bedroom door. Cause of death was ruled accidental asphyxiation with complications due to auto eroticasphixyation. This practice goes by many different names and although alot of people who participate in it do it for the (drug-free) high it produces, and I do believe that was the case for Kevin, it also has a sexual content seen by people in genaral as a perversion. Kate, you asked if others feel a different vibe from people when they hear about your loosing your beautiful son to suicide. I don't call how I lost Kevin suicide but I do feel and see the attitude change in them when the learn the truth. They didn't know my son, they don't know the love and light he gave off, they don't know he would drop anything at a moments notice to help his family and friends, they don't know what a sense of humor he had, they don't know what a strong christian he was, they didn't know him but they feel justified in judging him because of how he died. How fair if that? Then to hear people say if you take your oun life you will never be let into Heaven is just crazy talk. How our children died in no way takes away from who they were. I do not believe how they died changes the love and acceptence God has for them. We know where our beautiful children are and that when our time comes they will be waiting with open arms and a peace to share with us. Until them they sit with Jesus and watch over us and pray for us to make it on this rocky road, giving us a helping hand at times we need it most. Anyway, I think I've said enough. I hope some of it makes sense. Hugs and prayers to all. Vivian-Kevin's Mom

Vivien,I agree with you completely about suicide. I do not know why that stigma about eternity with suicide still exists. I was raised Catholic, but am not any longer. I do remember being taught that about suicide as a child. I am assuming that is where that belief system stems from. I completely agree with you that the heavenly father is there waiting for our angels with open arms. I do not think what you describe that Kevin did is suicide. He did not intentionally take his own life, it was accidental. I don't see that his motive for what he was doing is anybody's business. Kids use drugs to get high and it is their perception of fun. His motive was more from that regard, not intending to do harm to himself.Kevin sounds like such a wonderful young man :-) I hope my daughter has met him in heaven and they are friends :-)

Maddy - mom to Rachael and 5 others also

[mikesmum]

Maddy ~ so true. This ladies son died 10yrs before and she was locked into that day, still is.

As for 911 tapes and documents. I wanted so much to hear the tapes on Mike's job. I had been refused because I needed Amanda's permission (ARRGGGHHH). 18 months after he died they were sitting on my solicitors desk and she asked if I still wanted to hear them. I didn't. To hear Amanda's voice, knowing she said CPR was in progress when in fact it was not would be more pain I didn't need. To listen for any sign of life would tear me apart...my heart would break because my mind knew he was already gone before the call.

From our system when something like JD's accident is called in we run a scripted question response. Once the location is confirmed and crews are underway (this is within about 90 sec) we ask if the caller is prepared to do CPR. We also offer to talk them through and stay with them on the line till Paramedics arrive.

The printouts of Mikes job came here to our house. They are sent to the senior MICA paramedic for his records. Unfortunately Mal, my husband was that guy. I sat and read it. It gave me everything, time of dispatch, arrival, commencement of CPR. It did the timeline of their protocol for CPR, the drugs, the shocks, the number of times they recommenced...in totally it went for 52 mins. The references to electrial output, cardiac rhythm through out were simply his pacemaker still going strong. I read it detatched right up till the 'time of death'. My eyes went to the patients name and I lost it. Up till then I was just reading another ambulance document as I had many times before.

Best I can offer is if you want or need to read any of these 'offical documents' have a support person or plan. The details when attached to your child, your love, your life can be debilitating. Its like losing them all over again in stark detail.

Its hot here today, so walking with my baby early. Sending you all love and light.

This is from my FB. A mum who knows does these. I logged on this morning and found these...a 'hi' from my boy.

[Kenn]

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[Maddy6]

1330029673' post='84356']

Susannah, Maddy, Kate,

Thank you for your concern. I haven't seen the autopsy report yet, the police say they haven't received it, but I do know his toxicology was clean, because the police did call and tell me that much.

What upset me yesterday was reading the first responder's report that was filed by the local fire department. I have made some calls to try to clarify, because it is horrible thinking about it at all, let alone thinking about him laying there face down in the roadway for 10-15 minutes before anyone touched him?? OMG, it's just too much. By the time they got there, there was little they could do, something about electrical activity (EKG PEA rate 30), but no pulse, no breaths.

I want to hear that 911 call. There were supposedly two of them, one by the driver and one by a neighbor, but only one recorded on this responder report. The driver, a licensed RN, said there was nothing she could do, that he was "gone", and yet 15 minutes later, when help did arrive, they tried to revive him. She stood by her vehicle, 27 feet away from where he was thrown, while waiting for EMS to arrive. This report doesn't say whether or not 911 advised her to begin CPR, it says "unknown" under that question.

The most hurtful thing to me is that noone held him, touched him or spoke to him in those moments right after he was hit.

I guess the autopsy was ordered by the police investigators. I don't know. What I do know is that I am sick and tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop. I need to know what happened. I guess the police won't know for sure, or can't conclude until they have everything back from the Coroner's office.

They estimated his age at 18. He was only 15 years old....

Becky,I am so very, very sorry. My heart broke for you as I read the details surrounding the accident and the RN's behavior. I would like to be there to ((hug)) you. My heart aches for how you must feel. I want to sit with you and hold your hand and cry with you, this has upset me. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I am so very sorry for your pain for JD.

Also, FYIIn Texas where I am, ALL 911 calls are public property. I think it is after so many weeks they are published online. We had a big case here where a public figure tried to prevent his 911 call from being published. It even went to court and he lost. It was ruled that the content on the 911 call is the property of the general public. Don't know if it like that there, but you might check into it.

{{hugs}} Becky, love,

Maddy - Rachael's mom and 5 more also.

[JD's Mom, Becky]

Deleted

[Jeff's Mom]

Becky,I am so very, very sorry. My heart broke for you as I read the details surrounding the accident and the RN's behavior. I would like to be there to ((hug)) you. My heart aches for how you must feel. I want to sit with you and hold your hand and cry with you, this has upset me. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I am so very sorry for your pain for JD.

Also, FYIIn Texas where I am, ALL 911 calls are public property. I think it is after so many weeks they are published online. We had a big case here where a public figure tried to prevent his 911 call from being published. It even went to court and he lost. It was ruled that the content on the 911 call is the property of the general public. Don't know if it like that there, but you might check into it.

{{hugs}} Becky, love,

Maddy - Rachael's mom and 5 more also.

Becky...I am so sorry about your loss. I do want to say this much. That you are worried Jared spent those few minutes alone. No, my friend he was not. They sent someone to help him cross over. He was not alone. I totally believe this. To help him to move into the next life. We are never alone even at our darkest moments. A young man that loved life and his family is surely in a amazing and wonderful place. Sleep soundly tonight with the sure knowledge that he is safe in God's keeping. You will see him again and he would want you to continue with your life as best as you are able. Take care. Hang in there.

Kate

[summergirl]

Hello dear indigos - Well I went back 6 pages of posts and finally gave up trying to catch up.....so many conversations, questions, advice asked for and received....it is quite amazing what this place does for all of us. I am trying to catch up with names of all the new and it is not easy but I know I can do it with time so forgive me if I do not mention names for now. I remember when I first came here and how confused I got trying to keep up with names and placing names with their Angel but it didn't take long for me to connect as I was here every day writing like a crazy woman - which I was. I also remember someone doing a cheat sheet for those who were new and got confused on who was who, it was wonderful and helped alot....Maybe need to do another one.

As for the autopsy - wow I still cannot think of what was done to my Jessica but I console myself knowing that it was the only way to find out why she died so young....also when we found out it was ARVD then we were informed to have Tavian tested....he is fine but needs to go back this year to be tested again just as a precaution... It was not our choice that they did the autopsy, we had no say in it - when one dies so young and for no apparent reason that can be seen then it is an automatic autopsy. The only thing I regret is no donating her organs but I live with that too.

It has been an extremely tough week...Tavian had the week off for winter vacation so we decided to try another shot at letting Grandma take him to her house as she wanted to see him, both hubby and I had to work so it was a good time.....BUT a big mistake once again....Last nite I was on facebook and Tavian started a chat with me....at first it was fun and then he started talking about how mean grandma was, she yelled at him and made him cry becuz I had called him to say hello - REALLY ?? she told him he did not need to talk to me when he was with her. Then he said they went to Walmart and she wouldn't walk next to him becuz she told him he "smelled stinky" - All I wanted to do was go over there and give her a smack down she would never forget....but instead I picked Tavian up and I am calling in sick tomorrow to be with him....He got in the car and looked at me and the tears came and them my tears came and then we were laughing and hugging. He is soooooo happy to be home, right now he is lying in his sleeping bag on the livingroom floor by my feet watching a movie, he is content and happy once again. So there is "NO MORE GRANDMA TIME" - we had a family meeting and told Tavian that he never has to go there again, that we will always find a way to make things work. I will never put him through her torture again....BUT I still want to do a smack down on her.....the day will come, I have much patience...

On Feb 28 it will be 10 years since we lost my little brother at the age of 40 from a heart attack...February really sucks...His son was just 4 years old when he left us, same age Tavian was when Jessica left us..... BILLY, BILLY, BILLY - SAYING YOUR NAME OUTLOUD.....

Well I will say good nite as I have a few more things to do, will be up late as Tavian says we have to becuz I am not working and he does not have school.... Peace, Love and Strength to all, Kathy

[summergirl]

Wanted to share - done by a FB friend who does these from her heart.....

Love you my Jessica....mom

[Jeff's Mom]

Kathy...thanks for sharing the beautiful pictures. And I wanted to say that I think you did the right thing regarding Tavian. I am so sorry that this happened. As one who is always looking for an explanation I am at a loss for hurting a young person this way. You definitely are on the right track. As for the autopsy? Well, if important information was revealed then it did help to make another life somewhat easier. As for donating organs...they took so much of my son in snips and bits that they could not use any of it. The outcome was positive however. He was clean as a whistle.

Wishing you a good day tomorrow with Tavian. Hang in there.

[Susie_q512]

Kathy - Shame on Grandma for treating Tavian so harshly....I am glad that you came to his rescue. He was probably so relieved to get away from her. I have a beautiful picture in my mind of the two of you staying up late and hanging out together......just chillin'. Maybe you can sleep in tomorrow??? Enjoy the evening with your sweet boy!

[Kenn]

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[Kenn]

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