Loss of an Adult Child

[daveydow1]

Vickigee,

Thank you for your post. I am so sorry for the loss of

your mother and brother. Your insight is helpful and

encouraging. Peace be with you.

[daveydow1]

Deewithgreeneyes,

I am so very sorry for your loss of your dear mother and

your darling daughter in such a short length of time. The

pain and sorrow that you feel right now is beyond words to

really describe. I remember how I was at 3 wks. after my son

Davey's death in a highway crash--numbness, disbelief, and

pain. I wish that there was something I could say to ease

your pain, but there is'nt . I think that your little grand-

baby will be a comfort to you. Please come here to BI and

post when you feel you can, or just to read the posts. We

here at BI are all on the same sad road, and trying to find

our way. This site has helped me so much. We're all here for

you. Prayers & peace.

[maureensmom]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes, my heart aches for you. I can't imagine two such losses so close together. I certainly understand the desire to die. If it weren't for the fact that my handicapped 15 year old is already so hurt by his sister's death, suicide would look attractive. Mostly, I find big stretches of time where I really don't care, one way or the other. My husband feels the same way. Luckily for us and for my son, this hasn't translated into accidents or injuries, but I just miss my daughter so much that it's hard to see myself going on. It's only been 9 weeks, and already it feels like I've lived in the pain for years. Just keep writing to all of us. There's no question that BI has helped me in a unique way. Thanks to everyone.

Georgia

[kathy714]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,i just read your post and my heart breaks for you,your loss is so new,you must still be in shock,i know i was for quite a while after losing my son,Please come to Beyond Indigo,whenever you feel like you need to talk or need some comfort and support,everyone here is so wonderful and caring.I feel so sad that you don't have any support where you are ,try looking into a Compassionate friends group,or even private counciling.people are here any time of the day if you need to talk,i myself usually post at 5am,i am at work now.You will be in my thoughts and prayers ,feel free to e mail me if you need to talk...T/C KATHY,Nate's mom

[briansdad]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,Your feelings as you can see from other the posts are very normal.Believe me I felt the same way too.The only thing that saved me was Brian's 5 year old daughter. I wanted to be there for her.She has been my light in this dark tunnel called grief,It's been 16 plus months now and I'm at a place in this journey that I never thought I'd be.I can smile once in a while now.I still think of him every day and will always miss him but now I'm able to smile when I remember things we did together.Remember you need to be there for you granddaughter too so she can know what kind of mommy she had,That's going to be your job now.

My thoughts are with you.

[julsmom]

Dear deewithgreeneyes - we certainly understand you pain here. My husband's mother died in December 2002 and our daughter died 10/13/03. Less than a year later my brother's wife (one of my favorite sil) passed away. May you find peace. Lynda

[peacefulnow]

Mamabets, you make me smile. "I knew he wanted one of my peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches". I like that. I lost my son 6 weeks ago today. He died from cancer. Some days it is nearly impossible to smile or laugh. I know. But, humor was always an integral part of our relationship. We managed a few laughs...through our tears...even near the very end. It's wonderful that you can maintain a sense of humor through your sadness. Thanks for sharing it. Deewithgreeneyes, I want to be with my son too. It seems like a very good place to be. I've learned not to say that to other people (other than here) because people freak out. Red flags start to go up and they think I'm suicidal. I'm not. But I'm not afraid of dieing either. When my time is up, I will be anxious to be with Ian again. It will be wonderful. Cindy

[Michaelsmom]

Dear peacefulnow, I too lost my child to cancer. She was my oldest. She died at the age of 40 of colon cancer on March 21, 2005. She left her husband and two children ages 6 and 15. I live for them. I never thought of suicide but I think we all experience a form of it in one way or another. I don't really take care of myself. I drink too much and am overweight.

To Enufalreddy I dan relate to you also. I lost my son to drugs and alcohol also. However, you are more blessed than I as you have the lovely granddaughter to take care of. She will bring many pleasures to you. I wish my son had children but unfortunately it wasn't to be.

I don't normally tell people of my losses but sometimes it can't be avoided. When I do tell them they are shocked. How do you handle the loss of two children they ask me - I tell them I don't really know. I just get through the day. I will say that some days are easier than others. My husband is a saint. If it weren't for him I wouldn't have made it this far. He puts me first at all times even though his pain is as bad. My one remaining child, a daughter, is a delight. We are a family in a ton of pain but when I come to this website I realize I am not alone. I don't come too often because the pain is sometimes too hard to bear. There are so many people who have lost children. It just shouldn't be that way. I don't pray anymore as I am extremely angry at God, if there is one.

Finally, I do hope that you all find some peace. I'm trying I know that.

Carolyn and Michael's Mom

[maureensmom]

Dear Michaelsmom and Peacefulnow - thank you for sharing how you feel with me. I don't understand it, really, but just knowing I am not alone in how I feel makes me less desperate. I noticed today that crying does help, afterwards I feel tired but less frantic. Tears, the valium of grief.

Georgia

My daughter Maureen: 5/6/85 - 12/8/05

[mom2angels]

{{{Friends}}}~

I’ve been reading your messages, lighting my candles and praying for each of you.

{{{Erma}}} My thoughts were with you yesterday as you acknowledged Walt’s 33rd birthday. I pray that you and Sarah found comfort together in baking Walt’s cake. Happy Birthday, Walt. Stick close to your Mom.

Welcome {{{Linda~Dannyboysmom}}} and {{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} ~ I am so very sorry for the losses of your children. Your grief is new and raw, and your reactions are understandable and, as you can see, shared among many here.

{{{Michaelsmom}}} I don’t think that I have met you yet, so please let me extend my deepest sympathy and empathy to you in the loss of both Carolyn and Michael. A double burden on your heart.

I think you are right that our grief can cause us to spiral downward in a variety of ways, and not taking care of ourselves, not caring about our selves is essentially giving up or giving in to the desire to leave this life and join our children.

This is why I keep on like a broken record here encouraging all of us to take our vitamins, eat properly, drink water, and exercise a little.

Now, when you (referring to every one of us on this forum) are in the depths of despair and your sorrow is so profound that you cannot begin to imagine caring about yourself, you need to think of others. You need to think of the people in your life who love you and need you to be here. Here, not with your child, but here with them.

I’ve read this many times here: “If it were not for __________ (my other child/ren, husband, wife, etc.), I would not be able to go on. I would not be here.”

Every single one of us here has a good reason, a wonderful reason to keep living. I have my son, Jonathan. I have my husband, Jim. And I have many friends, who love me and depend upon me for advice. I also have my self, what is left of me that is, but it is still me.

And you have… Make a list of all of the reasons you need to stay here, and you will be amazed at how long that list becomes.

Think of all of the people in your immediate circle, and beyond, who are grieving in their own ways, for your child. Then, imagine their devastation if you were to willingly choose to join your child. Think of the pain of the ones you would leave behind here, and the guilt they would feel wondering if they could have done more to prevent you from taking your own life.

At some point, I stopped taking care of myself and paying attention to my needs. I was sucked into the vortex of anguish, and I didn’t care anymore. My husband was patient and pulled me out, before I hit the bottom, and he pointed out gently to me how selfish and unfair it was of me to allow myself to deteriorate, when Jon and he needed me. And while I was so absorbed in my own grieving, I wasn’t there to comfort him or Jon, whose losses are also enormous.

Deewithgreeneyes~ you have such a tremendous, immense pain in losing both your mom and your daughter. Through that pain, somehow, you must find your way to the legacy in your granddaughter. She needs you. You are the link between your daughter and her daughter, and between your mother and your grandchild. Your grand daughter needs to learn all that there is to know about your mother and her mother as she grows, so that she can have her own memories, even if they are ones you have shared with her through pictures and videos and telling stories. Only you can make these two precious women real to your grand daughter. I believe that is your purpose now. And I truly believe that this is what your daughter and your mother would want you to do. They would want you to create new memories with your grand daughter, like the wonderful times you shared with them. That is your gift to everyone, including yourself.

In those moments of utter desperation and devastation, I think about Michael. What would he want me to do? What would he want me to say? How can I honor him?

One way that I can honor Michael is by keeping his memory alive, by talking about him and sharing his messages of unconditional love and spiritual wholeness. And I can only do that by continuing to live and be here on Earth.

I try to remember that, as much as I long to be with my son again, he does not have that longing, because he is always here with me. He is limitless.

The journey to the place I find myself in now has been a long one, but I am here, and I have pitched a tent and lit a fire, waiting for all of you. You will reach this place, in your time. I’m just here to reassure you of that and to offer you hope.

God Bless everyone here and grant you all peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[kathy714]

Hello everyone,i have not had much time lately,i jump on quick at work to read the post,and sometimes i try to reply,but usually get called away because i work in a er and it has been so busy.I have pasted the one year mark since Nathan has left me,and i seem to have stepped into a different level of grieving,i just miss Nate so much,i feel like nothing has meaning anymore,I don't mean my family,but simple things,like sports[superbowl,olympics etc],holidays,different seasons,i feel like i am just existing,i am up all night,and sleep all day,Ifeel like i have nothing to motivate me,i feel like now that all the first have past,my friends feel like i should be ok now,and i'm not ,i feel worst.I feel without Nate here i have no one to spark my intrest in things.Nate would always start weeks before anything,getting excited and getting me into it,now i feel things just come and go,and i really don't care .Also my husband is sick and i think i am worried sick about him,if i lose him too i know i will die for sure...Sorry i am having a blue week,and needed to vent,thank you all for being here...T/C Kathy,Nate's mom forever...

[mamabets]

For Kathy714- I know, my friend, there is just way too much on your plate right now- I try to think "wedding" and "baby", as they will be "ups" for you- Another beautiful baby to add to the Black blend- At about 13 and 14 months after losing Danny, it was without question, the worst for me. It is different for each of us, but that seemed to have been the absolute hardest time- In retrospect, I think it was because all of it seemed as if it had come true... He was never coming back and it was just going to be more of the same as far as having to spend days, and therefore a lifetime, without him. But, and this is a but that I have been able to embrace, there also became the evidence, once and for all, that he loves where he is. He loves his forever freedom, he will never hurt like this and he will spend the rest of my life here, preparing for me to go there. There now seems to be a definate list of reasons why I will continue to carry on... He needs me here and I need him there. Does this make any sense?? I hope so because there is nothing worse that feeling so riddled with pain and fear at the same time... And,you know me, when in doubt, maybe a new daschund puppy!!! The breed is just so cute and so funny! xoxo I love you! Bets mamabets-

[mamabets]

For Mom2angels- I think of you so often, Roslyn- My heart skips many beats when I come and see thay you have posted!!! You are such an inspiration to us all and I pray for your peace as well, each and every day!! How is our Jonathan?? And Jim?? Safe and loved, perfectly in your care... Take care of yourself, OK??!!! God loves you and the Heavens are blessed to know you! xoxomamabets

[rhonda68]

Dear Kathy I am always thinking of you as you are walking this terrible road right with me as we lost our sons both at about the same time. I wish you were close and i could give you a big hug. I am in alot of pain right now as this is the last weekend Richard was home with us and remembering all the stuff he did my heartaches so bad and there just seems to be such little understanding from family and friends. I know I find no enjoyment in life anymore, one thing that really helps me continue on is trying to support other people in this terrible situation.

Yesterday was another terrible day and I felt like ending it all but I just cant do that to my other son. The pain why is life so cruel?

Thursday marks the year up for me I am planning a trip to the accident site to leave a rose and then I am going to go out for supper with my family and have pizza and try to celebrate my sons life. But I am having that feeling that I just want to go to bed and cover my head up and never get out.

Just remember I love you all and you have a special place in my heart.

Richards Mom Oct 9,1985 - Feb 23,2005

[kathy714]

IDear Rhonda,i think of you too,all the time,i know your son Richard's angel date is coming,i had a really hard time the few days before Nathan's,like you i kept thinking,last year at this time....and i would think of everything Nathan and i was doing the days leading up to his angel date,now that it has past i feel so empty,and i think of him constantly.I know he is with me though much of the time because i am always picking up little signs,tonight at work i went to take a patient up to their room ,and i found a penny in the elevator,but not on the floor,stuck up high ontop of a plauqe hanging on the wall in there.When i came back to the ER i asked someone to tell me the date on the penny, it was 1984,the year Nate was born.Everyone here was freaked out,i said stuff like that happens all the time.I hope you are able to find some peace on Feb 23rd,and i will say a prayer and light a candle in the memory of your dear son Richard.I went to Richard's memorial page, it is beautiful,i hope you saw i signed his guest book,i know all our children are together,looking over us,they all are such good kids that lived a life to short....T/C you are in my thoughts, Kathy, Nate's mom

[kathy714]

Dear Mamabets, you are such a good friend, it is true at least we know our children are not in pain and are free to go as they please.I believe after we leave our phyiscal form we come back,and if we are lucky we find that person out there ,that you swear you have seen or known somewhere before.When my mother was sick,i met this lady who now has become a very dear friend to me ,and is exactly like my mom, we talk everyday,and see each other every couple days,i believe she was placed in my path for a reason,and even though i miss and love my mom very much,i am also thankful that god put her in my life..so see our children are not really gone forever,we just need to be open to their signs,i am sure i probally sound crazy,but it has been a very emotional week....And maybe you are right a puppy would be nice,lol..T/C Kathy,Nate's mom.....ps,i will be home tommorrow night if you want to talk....bye

[mamabets]

For Kathy714- If you are crazy, then I am nuttier than any fruit cake ever made, and you know what ?? I am not . If we ignored these signs from our kids, then we would not be honoring them in the way that they have earned. I feel that they have done their best to show us the way, by showing us that they are with us still.To think differently would just be unfair to his memory, and therefore unfair for me. I always believed in Danny when he was here on Earth and since his departure, he has miraculously graced me with his comfort . He is my biggest strength while I am now my biggest weakness. I celebrate him, and my hope for the rest of my lifetime is that Moms and Dads, good Moms and Dads, allow for their kids to show them a magical way, if you will, to somehow survive this for the sake of all others. Signs upon signs , pictures upon pictures, are just way too beautiful.I try to pay attention to them all!! I am with you always and am here for you as well!! We will catch up when you can.. I am just a click away!! xoxomamabets

[ericasmom]

Hello Everyone,

To deewithgreen eyes, my name is Dee too. My girl was 19 when she died, it was over 2.5 years ago, though in many ways it was 2 days ago, still in other ways it has been nearly forever since i last held her in my arms. I know, as do all the others here, how we sometimes just want to go away...but i agree with the others, we should only go when it is our time, so much to do here while we can.. The responsiblility of helping raise your grandgirl must at times seem insurmountable and exhuasting, but how lovely that she has so compassionate a woman as you in her life.

My Momma died the year before my daughter. How many times I have grabbed the phone to talk to one or both of them, now I just talk. Don't need the phone, I talk to them. I speak to my daughter whenever I need to and it is a good feeling to just up and talk to Eri. It is rather freeing and I do believe our little ones can hear us.

Many of you are very new to this awful ache, I can only encourage you to write your thoughts here often, get as much sleep as you are able, take walks for fresh air adn sunlight as well as physical exercise, and know that you are not going crazy if you feel the things you feel. You are going through a process that none of us wish upon anyone, but here we are. Hang on to yourself, hang on to us, as we did to those who have traveled this journey longer than we.

my heart,

dee

[daveydow1]

Hello to Everyone,

I had a dream of Dave the other night. It was so wonderful to

have him right next to me and give him hugs & kisses. It felt

like heaven. I firmly believe in watching out for signs and

feelings that tell us our children are near to us. I try never

to dismiss them. It would be like turning my back on Davey.

Dee,

You mentioned talking to your daughter. I do the same thing

with my son. You're right---it does give a comforting feeling

to talk to them. They are close to us in reality. Only their

worldly bodies have left us. Thanks for your post, and reminding

me how nice talking to our children can be. It is a very sweet

and pure way to communicate with them. Take care.

Peace to all.

[maureensmom]

I also have seen signs - actually, a lot of them - but why doesn't it help my heartache? I am just so sad, I can hardly go anywhere alone - even into a bathroom - without crying. This morning it was cold, and I was thinking about how much Maureen hated to be cold, and then right on the heels of that thought, was this overwhelming guilt that I cremated her, and somehow I'm responsible for her not being with me or able to feel ANYTHING - like the cremation killed her in some kind of weird way. The adult part of me tells the crazy part of me that I'm crazy, but sometimes it just doesn't help. My little boy and I sat down at the kitchen table to eat fast food - a treat for us - and I just glanced up at that high glass cupboard where I have Maureen's ashes wrapped up in beautiful fabric, with two little angels sitting in front of them, and I thought that I couldn't stand the pain. It's like it happened this morning. Maureen died on December 8th. These 10 weeks have been so bad, I just can't imagine going on like this. Sorry to be so depressed tonight.

I'm seeing a grief therapist who is having me join a group of other moms. I hope that helps some. (Can't POSSIBLY replace BI, however. Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart, for holding my hands through this pain.)

Georgia

[maskott]

Dee...you are so lucky to have had a dream of Davey. I keep asking Matthew to visit me in a dream but, so far, he hasn't. Jeff and I did have a sign on Saturday. We were going to the Jersey shore to see the sunrise. It was about 4:00am and all of a sudden the inside light of our car flashed and then stayed on for a few minutes. It went off and then came back on. I know it was Matthew telling us he was with us. That sign was obvious, but I'm so afraid that I miss so many and I feel like you said...that I'm turning my back on Matthew. I want to see every sign that he sends me, I'm just afraid that I miss some and that hurts me.

Today, I'm feeling sorry for myself. I wish I could have a sign every day so I knew Matthew was thinking of me every day. I know he is always with me but I wish I knew that he thought about helping me through this. I'm being selfish. I miss him so much.

BettyAnn

[deewithgreeneyes]

God morning everyone, i am still here (I think) and have been reading all of your posts. Again, I am so sorry for all of your pain as well. So sorry from the bottom of my heart. Still having a very rough time of it. I know the feeling of the phone ringing Dee...it is not your mom and not your daughter. The hardest thing I am dealing with now is packing my mom's things ( I have to move) and packing my daughter's things. I feel as if I am in the twilight zone. Both gone in 6 months. Both not knowing in the beginning of the New year they would not be here. Mom died quite fast from her cancer from the diagnosis (2 months)and was not even feeling ill. Bladder cancer. I had a massive heart attack with surgery about 3 days after my mom's diagnosis. I myself almost did not make it. Why did G-d not take me instead...why did he leave me alone like this and keep me going? I have been popping nitroglycerin like candy for many weeks no, lost 14 pounds and hardly have the strength to put one foot in front of the other. I wisj you all new how much I contemplate when I get chest pains to do anything about it...I just turned 50, thought I was in good health...what a shock and change in lifestyle as well. Seems I am dealing with death all the time as well as my own. When I am stronger and more comfortable Iwill share with you some things my daughter wrote after her first baby died 5 years ago. I believe it will help all of us. Thank you all, I look forward to the board everyday.

[peacefulnow]

Deewithgreeneyes. I'm so sorry that you're having so much emotional and physical pain. I'm truly looking forward to reading the stories from your daughter after the death of her baby. (another loss...how sad)

Georgia, my son Ian didn't like the cold either. I live in PA and it's been very cold here recently. Ian chose not to be cremated. He had cancer and knew he was dieing. I keep thinking of Ian being buried in the cold, cold ground...it upsets me. I think it's all part of the grieving. You're not crazy.

So many signs. I'm jealous, and now I'm thinking maybe I'm missing the signs. I had one right after Ian died. While he was still alive, but shortly before his death, I asked him to please let me know that his journey was complete and that he was okay. I got that sign loud and clear, and I'm so grateful. But, nothing since then. A dream would be so wonderful also. I'm so happy that you had a dream about Davey. What a gift to treasure!

I talk to Ian all the time too. Especially at night when everyone else is sleeping. I quietly go downstairs and have a "visit" with Ian. I actually look forward to that every night. It somehow makes me feel closer to him.

You're all in my thoughts and prayers. Cindy

[rmcaggiano]

To everyone,

Speaking on signs and dreams, I have seen my Nicholas in a few dreams since I lost him in May, everytime I do see him he’s always in the sun, that’s how I know he is forever and one day I will see him again. As far as signs………..I believe I see them some of the time, especially a few times when I have been somewhere and all of a sudden I smell Nicholas’ cologne or he just “appears” I don’t know how to explain that, but, he does. I sometimes can’t stop and just think because it becomes too overwhelming I think. I panic and I can’t imagine forever without him.

Marty,

I did get my e-mail hooked up at my house, I will give you my address as soon as I have time to set it up.

Rose

[julsmom]

As to what our children liked and didn't like - Julie didn't like to be alone or the dark. If I think too much about her being buried that part just tears me up. As for dreams, not many but when I do dream of her she is always in white - not flowing gowns like an angel, but pant suits like she wore. I only have a 10 minute ride home from work, but those are the longest 10 minutes some days. Knowing when I get home there will be no phone call, no message, no I love you mom. And lately even though I am not that old I worry about getting alzheimer's and asking for her and what a burden that will be for our son. I guess I'm just are a little crazier than I was before Julie died. Peace to all Lynda

Rhonda and Kathy - may you find some peace and comfort in the coming days.

[wnf4ever]

Thanks for responding, Rose. I hope you get it set up soon...

I'm not doing too well these days. It's been nine months and four days and it feels like just yesterday. Every a.m. I come into work and I see Warren's picture first and I say "good morning" to him. Lately, it's just been completely knocking the breath from me. I MISS HIM SO MUCH and I still am unable to fathom (even remotely) the rest of life without my beautiful Warren... Well, I guess this is going to be shorter than I intended, I can't even type this without sobbing. Lately I just feel like I can't go on without my son, HOW?? It's a constant struggle, even when you know there are those that need you here. I feel their need, but it doesn't change the way I feel. Does this even make sense? Well, haven't been on the board in a long time, hope everyone is hanging in there, somehow...

[mamabets]

For wnf4ever- I feel for you and every single thing that you are feeling is so real and so painful. This is the hardest hand that anyone has been dealt, with no direction on how to play the hand. I find that just staying in touch with my family here at Beyond Indigo is the only real safe haven for this weary traveler. I have even laughed with some of the beautiful people that I have met here, and no one loved to laugh more than my Danny. It does feel good to laugh again. It takes time and it takes the love of all of you here. My comfort comes from being able to help as many as I can, as often as I can. This is the one place where I am ALWAYS understood. Out of the BLUE the other day I was hit with a wave of panic, because I felt that my Danny was being forgotten by way too many people in my life. The only place where I could go and be understood was Beyond Indigo. We are always here for you. xoxomamabets

[mom2angels]

{{{HUGS}}} To Everyone~

How I wish that I could reach through this computer and really hug each one of you. The agony of the early months, the first year, and then the changes as year two begins…it’s all so overwhelming, surreal, and impossible to comprehend.

It’s difficult to imagine that your pain will ever be any less intense than it is right now. At some point, you may wonder whether any softening of these feelings and emotions might mean that you’ve stopped missing your child. The softening will come, but you will never forget your child, and you will never stop missing your child.

As I reflect upon the searing anguish I experienced during the first year after Michael’s transition, I can see that it was derived from my dependency upon the physical connection I had with him on Earth. The aching-in-your-soul longing correlates to our physical relationship with our child.

I think that is our immediate reaction to our loss. Because I cannot see him, touch him, feel him, hear him, smell him, he is G-O-N-E.

The reason for that feeling is because I was dependent upon the senses, the physical senses, between us as my connection with him. Not that the spiritual connection did not exist, or was not important, but, as a human being, my primary connection to Michael was through the senses.

That’s the natural, normal way that we relate as human beings. So when that is taken away, the shock is enormous, and the physical separation is wrenching.

Gradually, I adjusted to the physical separation, and as I did, my spiritual connection to Michael was strengthened. I had to learn a new way to experience Michael, and the more I learn, the easier it is for me to cope with his physical absence.

I still think of Michael constantly, and I still remember moments of his hospitalization, the day he left our home in the ambulance, the day he passed, and everything in between. And the memories are distinct and vivid, of course, but they don’t hurt as badly as they once did. It is as though they are covered with a thin veil now. And instead of reliving those memories right to the core every second, I can often step back and look at them as if I am an observer.

I still cry every day, but I only weep occasionally, and sob even less frequently. I have learned to accept my tears as a cleansing release, and I let them flow whenever and wherever they fall. They no longer consume me.

The signs, dreams, and talking to our children are all tools to build our spiritual relationships with them. Like each of you, I yearn for signs and dreams, and Michael does provide me with a wonderful array of signs.

Every night, I ask him to visit me in my dreams, but a long time had passed since he appeared in my dreams. This morning, I woke up briefly and returned to sleep to find Michael there, so real, so near, so happy and beautiful. The dream only lasted for seconds, but it seemed like we had been together for a very long time, and I was able to hold him. I awoke feeling incredibly blessed.

Recently, as I was strolling my sacred nature space, I was looking up at the clouds, searching for Michael’s face. He often appears in the clouds. I was missing him so much, as I hadn’t seen him in the clouds for quite awhile.

As I scanned the sky, I whispered softly and tearfully, “Michael, where are you? I can’t see you!”

And Michael whispered, “I’m right here.”

I felt as though he was touching my shoulders. And then he said, “I’m always right here. I’m not in the clouds. I'm here with you.”

Michael explained to me that he shows me signs so that I can be comforted and reassured that he is still living and that he is with me. And then he said, “At some point, you just have to trust me that I’m with you always.”

Later that day, I realized that I was pushing him to show me signs, as if I needed the signs to prove to me that he was still here. And the more I desired the signs, the less I recognized his constant spiritual presence. It was as though I was blocking out the very thing that I was striving to obtain.

Once I let go, Michael’s face appeared in the clouds, and then he arrived in my dream, and I held him.

I’m finding serenity in trusting that he is always with me.

Know that I understand what you are going through and that my candle is lit for you and your children, and I’m praying for your peace and comfort every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[maureensmom]

Dear Roslyn and Mamabets, Thank you for being so present on the message board for us. I keep hoping that this will get just a little bit better. I woke up in the middle of the night tonight thinking how long it has been since I've seen Maureen. Even though she lived in her own apartment, she was such a homebody; we never went longer than 24 hours without talking, I saw her almost daily. It's inconceivable that it's been 10 weeks since I saw her. I just can't imagine going on like this. I miss her so much. I'm just dragging into work in the mornings, trying to make it through the day in an environment that is extremely tense and stressful. I just hate my life right now.

[kathy714]

Hello,i have been reading the post,about signs,dreams and the cold,i do get signs,but nothing where i smell Nathan's colonge,or that he talks to me,once i felt a hand on my shoulder and heard him call "Ma".I don't think i sleep enough to have dreams,i only sleep about 4 hours at a time lately.One thing that happens alot is my computer is right near Nathan's room,my house is a small cottage ,and Nathan's room only has a folding door on it,so late at night i swear i hear noises coming from in there,and i find comfort because it makes me feel like Nate is home.I use to stop and open the door and look around,but now i just kind of smile,knowing he is near.I know one thing for sure,if it is true that our children are still here with us,that is where Nate would be hanging out because he was a real home body,and him and his friends were always hanging in his room,or in my back yard if the weather was warm.I also can relate to the dicussion about the cold,i live in New England,and Nathan passed away from hypothermia r/t to alcohol intoxication,it was only 10 degrees that night,i still haven't seen the offical M.E. report,i am still waiting for it to come in the mail[long story]Now i can't stand going out into the cold,all i can think of is my poor Baby lying in the cold snow,i really think someone slipped him something,because whatever happened that night,happened in 1 hour....,Well once again,Thanks for listening and letting me vent..T/C ALL,Kathy,Nate's mom

[kathy714]

Dear Maureensmom,i am so sorry that you are having such a differcult time,and i give you so much credit for already going back to work.Ten weeks the pain is still so raw,i remember i was planning to go back after a month,and when that day came,i couldn't do it,i still felt like i was in shock,i was numb,i couldn't concentrate,i was a mess,plus my husband is ill and was on chemo at the time,i ended up taking 6 monthes out.If your job is stressful and damanding,maybe you can talk to your boss and only go back part time,i really don't know your situation,but it is a thought,do you have any one at work that you can talk with,about how you are feeling?I will keep you in my prayers...T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[maskott]

Rosalyn...your message hit home to me. I've been asking for Matthew to send me signs on a daily basis just to show me that he cares. I know he is always around but I wanted proof. He basically told me the same thing as Michael. I have to trust that he is always around me and I shouldn't depend on the signs. I know that's what I was doing. I needed the signs and that's not what they are here for. It's so hard though but I am trying not to ask. Last night, I woke up and heard the folding doors in our bedroom moving back and forth. I am thankful.

BettyAnn

[kirksdad]

Going back to work is such a hard thing to have to do. After Kirk's death we had only a week and a half off before starting back. We both teach and it was going to be more work and emotional stress to have to make out lesson plans than just heading back. Besides our contract only calls for 5 days of leave in the event of the death of a child. We went back and it was so painful and difficult. Within a month my wife just couldn't handle it and asked for the 5 days off and at that time our principal told her that it wasn't going to happen because the way he read the contract we would have had to taken the days at that time. This prinipal was not very supportive of our pain and said a lot of hurtful things at the time that we just had to ignore.

Work is not the best place to have to start contending with the "real world". It is very hard. I guess in the long run it was good we went back so soon because it did force us to deal with things that I don't think we could have if we would have stayed away longer. With us being teachers we were around Kirk's friends on a daily basis, had to face teachers that were not a understanding of him as they could have been, were around things that he had been involved with daily and believe me it was very, very hard. I remember times I had to leave the classroom because all I could do was break down.

There were those who worked with us that would stop in for support and that was a good thing. There were those that were helpful, but there were also those that just ignored us, I guess hoping we would go away. Some just can't even begin to understand the concept of losing a child and have no power to give comfort and support. When you are around those type of people daily it will take a toll on ones mental outlook.

Work is hard, harder if there are factors in play that don't allow for some understanding. We have to face it in our own time, but I do know the longer it is put off the harder it will be to adjust. We have to do what is in our hearts, and after what we have gone through that is totally mixed up and completely not understandable.

[maureensmom]

thanks to Kathy and Kirksdad for their advice on going back to work. I too am in the situation where it's just going to be worse if I stay out, because all my work will pile up and my peer in the office is already too busy for comfort, plus she covered for me during the 3 weeks after Maureen's death. The stress can't be helped right now, although my peer and I are trying hard to turn this particular situation around. Meanwhile, I have to pretend that I'm basically able to work. No one expects me to be joyful, but they need to be protected from seeing me when I am so sad - so there's a fair amount of "faking it till you make it." Unfortunately, I don't see any end to this. I'm so tired sometimes. I'm home today to write a presentation; being at home always helps some, even though I cry more, no one can see me.

[wnf4ever]

Mamabets:

Thank you for your kind words of wisdom...

I was just telling someone the other day how much I miss Warren's laughter, his goofy sense of humor. He lit up a room with his presence, he was so full of life! How do we go on without that, how do we get through the unbearable pain of losing our beloved children?!!?!?!?!?!

I am in as bad of shape today as I was when I first heard that unbearable news. I can't think, eat, sleep, I don't see ever being able to sleep again. It's a constant ache, as we all know and I miss him every second of every day. Grief definitely comes in waves. I am at a point now where I can feel myself spiraling towards this abyss and I am unable to control/stop it.

I do my best to attempt to stay focused and being at work usually helps me, at least I'm busy. I went to the cemetery with my sister-in-law and Warren's girlfriend this past Sunday and I have been a complete mess ever since. I cannot stop crying. It's taken me SO long to even get this written because I have to get up due to crying uncontrollably. I have been going outside a lot (here at work) and taking walks - when I get really bad.

Warren Nicholas left us with a beautiful baby boy, Jacob Nicholas. He is the spitting image of his daddy and just turned four months old. He reminds me so much of holding Warren when he was only that age - talk about bittersweet. It breaks my heart that it is up to all of us that love Warren to tell Jake about his dad and what an amazing and extraordinary man his father was!! How are you ever able to convey that to a child that never had the opportunity to know his father?!?!? I want to scream at the top of my lungs, "WHY? Why is this how things have to be??" "This is so unfair!!"

I make many trips down to see my family, most of the time when I feel like I just can't stand it anymore. The pain is simply too much to bear. My parents, my daughter, Warren's girlfriend and little Jake - I just hold Jake close to me and love him so! Everyone is struggling through this because Warren was a huge part of all of our lives. I know there are people that need me, as I need them - well, my mind tells me that, but my heart says something altogether different...

Heck, I'm so afraid that I am going to forget the sound of Warren's voice, the sound of his laughter. It is still so unbelievable to me that my sweet boy is no longer with us here, it quite literally knocks the breath from me. It's like I automatically shake my head when I think that he's really gone, as if doing so will wake me up from this nightmare.

And selfish me, I am going through a break-up now from my fiance of 2 1/2 years and I need Warren so badly!! He never judged me, he was constantly there for me with his unconditional love and understanding. He would make me laugh through this mess that is now my life, would be right by my side through it all just as he always was. He and I shared such a close bond, I don't know how to go on without him. I'm numb and as absent minded as I was in the beginning.

I know I am rambling and I apologize. I must have needed to say these things because even sitting here typing with tears running from my eyes and with all of the times I've had to get up, I couldn't seem to stop... Thank you for listening...

Take care of yourselves, everyone -

Marty - Warren's mom

[daveydow1]

Maskott,

Thank you for your kind words in response to my post about

having my wonderful dream of Davey. I very seldom have any

dreams of him, so that was such a surprise, and I treasure it.

I believe that you will have signs from your dear son Matthew---

probably when you least expect it. That is how it is with me.

Just out of the blue it seems. I guess that we are all so very

anxious to receive these signs, and of course our dear children

are always in the forefront of our minds. I wish you peace &

comfort.

[daveydow1]

Rhonda68,

My heart, thoughts, and prayers go out to you on this

day---your angel day. I pray that you are able to

find some peace somehow, but I know that it is nearly

impossible. I pray that your memories and your constant

love for your dear Richard will give you a ray of light

and comfort. Please let us know how you are doing. I

care about you, and know that everyone here does too.

Peace be with you.

[daveydow1]

On the subject of returning to work:

This is probably one of the most difficult facets of our

grief process to deal with. I think that this is because

most of us only had so much time off, and then have to

return to the workplace. All this in such a short time

after the loss of our dear child. In many cases, our bosses

or superiors press us to return, and work contracts state

that we only have a limited amount of time to get back to

work, and "get back to normal". I returned to work 3 wks

after Davey's death. I can tell you that, for me, it was too

soon. Dealing with the 'real world', as Kirksdad stated, was

too much for me. I had to leave the job. I was fortunate to

be able to quit. I pray for each and every one who must return

to the workplace and feels that it is too soon. For many, the

workplace can help, and that is good. For others, it may be too

soon to deal with all the dynamics of the job and at the same

time, grief.

Peace be with each

and every one.

[rmcaggiano]

Wnf4ever

Marty, I did get my e-mail: rosejaso@clearwire.net

Now we can talk. I was just reading your post.....was Warren's middle

name Nicholas? Wow, we do have alot to talk about. I'm sorry your having

a rough day. I'm here for us to talk, o.k.

Rose

[rmcaggiano]

To everyone:

This is the poem my youngest daughter (Morgan) wrote for me for Christmas, she said she knew it was Nicholas speaking to her.

I AM

When in the night I hear you weep

Tis' I who comes and brings you sleep

Silently silloeting the still

Bearing warmth to sorrows chill

Billowing beneath the moans bright beams

My voice the lullaby in your dreams

When infinate darkness confine

I am the comfort that you find

Slowly sedating sadness reign

Lurking beneath undaunting pain

I am the way you feel inside

When the beauty of pain and hope collide

When life begins to take it's toll

I am the peace within your soul

Steadily spreading beneath the skin

Salvation am I to mortal sin

When fall do tears upon your face

Look to me as your saving grace

When you find no one else around you

I am the presence that surrounds you

Suffer shall no longer your heart

To you let this be forever known;

I am the reason your never alone

To my beloved mother; nothing is ever lost

[midhar]

Hi Mamabets,

I am very grateful that you have answered my e-mail as you are the only one other than Kathy that has.

I guess I do not belong here and I guess I won't be writing here anymore. I was told by someone on the loss by violence part to come here as no one usually writes on it. They said I would be comfortable here but I am not. I know it has been longer for me but that does not mean I do not still need others who understand the loss of a child no matter how we lose them.

Again thank you for caring. Jeni

[maureensmom]

Dear Midhar: I hope you keep coming to this message board. I've been so crazy with my loss that I don't even keep up with whether people get "answered". Please don't think that you are not welcome here, you are. Everyone who has suffered a loss like ours has something to share. I know I'm pretty new on BI, but I'm struck by how similar grief is, regardless of who you have lost. Hugs.

Georgia

[mom2angels]

{{{Jeni}}}~

I'm so sorry that I missed your last post. I had to go back to Page 3 to find it. Personally, I feel that this forum is cumbersome for responding to individual posts. I try to reply to everyone, and then my posts become extremely long, and I'm concerned that I'm taking up too much space. And I never want anyone here to feel slighted, so I fret over whether I've missed someone. It would be so much easier if the software for this forum was updated to allow us to post individual topics within each of the forums.

Also, I have noticed that it isn't unusual for only one or two responses to most posts here. Again, I think that is associated with the format used by this forum, as it is difficult to keep up with the different topics going on at the same time on the same page. On the last couple of pages alone, people have talked about dreams, talking to their children, signs, angel dates, sleep deprivation, illness, not taking care of themselves, and we've met a couple of new members. To me, that is a LOT to keep up with, especially, again, with this kind of format.

I feel exceptionally sad that you feel uncomfortable here, as I am the one who introduced you here, and copied and pasted your posts from the other forum (I think it was the Court System forum) here. I hope that you will reconsider continuing on with us, and I certainly respect any choice you make.

When I felt that I might not belong here, because of my unique circumstances, I was assured that there are no parameters on the pain of losing one's child. It hurts, and we all know it. It doesn't matter how long ago your child passed, or how your child passed. We all share the unbearable and unfathomable sorrow of physical separation from our children.

As I think I said to you before, Jeni, I can't even begin to imagine the trauma and heartache that you have been through and continue to endure. I give you all of the praise in the world for coping with all of it.

I want to hear your voice, lend you a shoulder, and cry on yours sometimes too, as I do with everyone here. If you change your mind, I'll be here.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your husband and Chris.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mamabets]

For Midhar- Oh, please, don't ever go away!! You need to understand something, Jeni- Like my Roslyn, you are "unique" in this journey... You are an inspiration because you have been so slammed and you are here, trying, willing to reach out. What you will find on this walk is that at different times, all of us react to our grief in ways that have no rhyme or reason. There are the 5 definate stages, have no doubt, and how each goes through each stage depends alot on each individual. Having said that, it then can appear that others aren't there for you when the fact is that they can't be there for themselves at the time, so that is when, perhaps, me or Kathy or Ros or whomever. will try to graciously be there for some, if we can be. Then, when I get slammed and shut down, I know that all here will get it. Please, too, keep in mind, that I am home full time- There are no set ways of doing this- We wish that there was, but the pain radiates through each and every post here. There are some of the guys that just can't post right now, and I miss them, but I understand, because I live with a man that has had a really hard time being unable to fix this. He fixes everything else that doesn't require a hammer and nail! You are a brave, brave Mom and don't think for one minute that we don't need you here. Please understand, if you can, that your strength and courage is making a difference in so many lives. By leaving here, so many could think that they have failed, and that too, is common in the most loving of relationships when this hand has been dealt. The saddest thing would be for you to go away- We all bring our different selves here, but we all bring our willingness and you are the hero when you bring these multiple losses... Please promise me that you will stay, OK??? We love you, Jeni, and your hope is our hope!! xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Rhonda68- I walk beside you today and everyday... I am your friend and I am blessed to have you in my life as it now is. The Heavens will be celebrating Richard, just like they do everyday....With their team of angels. The pain lessens some, soon. It is there, always, but the hope that you have had because you have read and witnessed that it can lessen some, will too be your bit of sunshine coming through. I will never get over this, nor do I ever want to. That is the kind of stuff that starts to happen now- Somewhere within, you will feel a little "tug" that reminds you that there is a familiarity to the "tug" and it is called you. You will see, just hand here with us each and every day and we will be here as much as we can be. xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Maureensmom- I apologize for not posting more to you, but to be honest? I read your posts over and over and think, "My God, what can I say to this Mom- She is so strong and I was in a hospital, praying for death at her stage"- I get such strength from you people that reach out so early on. It has made me see that you have represented such hope for me. I thank you and please keep talking because we all need you!!! xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For rmcaggiano- What a beautiful poem!! I have no doubt that your Nicholas is with you always...Just a touching gift,,I think of you and am glad to see you here!! I just heard some comotion in my living room!! Wonder who is here?!? xoxomamabets

[danielsmom]

Rhonda,My thoughts and prayers are with you on Richards angel day.Remember the good times, they are what keep me going.Take care of yourself

Wendy

[maskott]

Midhar...I'm sorry that sometimes certain posts are neglected and it's not intentional. I've read all of your posts but at this time, could not post myself. I'm having a hard tiime dealing with my own emotions that I couldn't find anything uplifting to say to you. I am truly sorry for your losses. There aren't too many of us that can understand the loss of both of your daughters. It's hard enough to deal with the one that died but then to have to deal with one in prison has got to be unbearable. My heart certainly goes out to you. My son was also bipolar, and I know that situation well. Please continue to write here. You do belong....anyone that has lost a child belongs here. It's a place where others understand your pain...unfortunately sometimes we can't respond because of our own pain. As the others have said...please come back and write as often as you need. My thoughts and prayers are with you today.

BettyAnn

[bokenhearted]

Hello

I have not posted for sometime but have clocked in here and there. I have had some pretty terrible days lately. Just when I think that I am starting to get on with day to day stuff something else happens. We have seen just too much death these past 10 months that I sometimes wonder just what is happening in this little town of ours. A friend of mine just lost her son a few days ago. I wish with all my heart that she didn't have to go through this pain that we all suffer with. I hope I can be there for her. I will try but there are some days when I am battling to help myself let aone anyone else. It will be 10 months on the 25th since my beautiful son died. It hurts so so much. I feel physically sick some days. Who said that a heart couldn't feel?

Take care everyone.

Jo