Loss of an Adult Child

[peacefulnow]

Midhar (Jeni), I was reading todays postings. You belong here. I've admired your courage. I'm fairly new here and I'm guilty of letting the more "seasoned" bereaved parents handle the difficult and heartbreaking stories, such as yours. It's not that I don't care...I'm simply at a loss as to how to comfort you. (I'm struggling to deal with the death of one child from cancer. I cannot imagine the depth of your pain in dealing with the death of one child at the hands of your other child.) You are a strong and amazing woman. I know you can help others by continuing to share your thoughts. You've helped me. Please reconsider, we care. Cindy

[mamabets]

For Bokenhearted- I am so sorry for you and so sorry for your friend- This happened to me also- I lost my Danny and then a dear friend lost her son. It was just too unreal, and still is. You are reaching out, and you will be there for her- Trust me. How did both of you lose your sons?? We are here for you always!! xoxomamabets

[bokenhearted]

Mamabets

My son commited suicide. He shot himself with his fathers rifle. This has been extremely difficult for my husband to come to terms with. I keep telling him it was not his fault. They were locked away responsibly but he had told our son about 18 months ago where the keys were just in case something happened to us he would know where they were. My friend lost her son in a motorbike accident. My son was 27 and her son was 22. Both too young to die.

Let me thank you for your wonderful words of encouragement to all. You have helped me previously, and I do appreciate you being there for me.

Jo

[kathy714]

Dear Rhonda,i will be thinking of you and your family today on dear Richard's angel date,hope you find a bit of peace,i will say a prayer,T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[alice24]

Hello to all. It has been a long time since I have posted, but I do visit and read all posts. I feel the pain of each and everyone.

Tomorrow February 24 is my Hiram's 26th birthday. This will be the 2nd birthday without him here physicially to hug and kiss. We will have a cake, sing Happy Birthday, bring flowers and balloons to him and share many hugs and tears. We are trying to be strong and celebrate his wonderful, fun filled life here for 24 years. I treasure each and every sign. He is with me all the time and I am learning to enjoy his hugs. I still wait impatiently for a visit in my dreams to see that beautiful face and to be able to hug him.

I would not trade those 24 years and as the song said:

I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED THE DANCE.

All my love to everyone. Please keep the candles burning and rememeber Hiram John in your prayers.

Alice

[kirksdad]

Midhar, I agree with everyone writing. No one here would ever ignore you. I just sometimes feel it is the format where the posts are one after another and sometimes things get overlooked. It is something that no one wants to do, but it happens. I hope you will keep posting and know that we are all here to support as much as we humanly can. Please stay.

[deewithgreeneyes]

I wanted to share with all of us surviving parents words I found in my daughters journal after the death of her first child Sierra...

Do not persue the past. Do not lose yourself in the future. The past no longer is. The future has not yet come. Looking deeply at life as it is, in the very here and now, the practioner dwells in stability and freedom. We must be diligent today. Tomorrow is to late. Death comes unexpectedly. How can we bargain with it? The sage calls a person who knows how to dwell in mindfulness night and day one who knows the better way to live alone.

Do not rely on individuals, rely on the teachings. Do not rely on words, rely on the meaning. Do not rely on the adapted meaning rely on the ultimate meaning. Do not rely on intellectual knowledge, rely on wisdom.

Those were words from my beautiful daughter, both inside and outside. Her death has affected so many, her life affected so many. Now I look at her urn of ashes and I want to be in there with her. God, when will this pain stop?

[deewithgreeneyes]

Midhar, I have been reading the post's. If it helps think of this as a place you were guided to go to. Reading the loss of others reminds us all that we are not alone. I reminds me at night that others have tears flowing as you do. I can't imagine the unsurmountable grief you must be carrying. It is not that one is being ignored, we are all in our hell and torture of pain...read my daughters words....rely on the hidden teachings of this board. Love, Dee

[mom2angels]

{{{Georgia}}} ~ As I haven’t worked outside of our home since 1985, I can only imagine how difficult it is to go to work every day, putting on that “face” for the world. I noticed in your profile that you are a physician. What is your specialty? Also, you mentioned that you are seeing a grief therapist, and I’m very interested in what grief therapy entails. Would you share a little bit of what your therapist covers in your sessions?

Ten weeks is such a short time. A very dear friend of ours, who was with us and Michael at the hospital after he passed, visited us at the 10-week mark. She was in the process of divorce and carried on to me for over 2 hours about her “grief.” Then, she finally asked me how I was doing, and I told her quite frankly, “not so good. This is so incredibly difficult, and the pain is so intense.” And she said, incredulously, “Still?” STILL???? I was so upset with her insensitivity, and I nearly shouted at her, “YES, STILL! It’s only been 10 weeks! You can find someone else, but Michael is never coming back!”

So, I know where you are, and I promise you, it won’t always hurt so terribly.

{{{Marty}}} ~ No need to apologize…let it all out. I’m so sorry to hear that you and your fiancé are breaking up. Extra stress for you, which is probably contributing to the intensity of the pain you are feeling in missing Warren. I’m sure that Warren is right by your side, and I hope that he will make his presence very known to you and bring you comfort. He is watching your grandmotherly love for his little boy, Jacob. Jacob is a part of Warren, and in this way, God has blessed you. Warren lives on in spirit and in his grandson. It is impossible that you will ever forget anything about him, so please try to release that fear. And keep talking to us.

{{{Rose}}} ~ Morgan’s poem is truly beautiful. Thank you for sharing it with us. How are you feeling? Hope you are much better today. Take extra good care of yourself.

{{{Jo}}} ~ I’m so sorry to hear of your friend’s loss, as well as your own. Somehow you and your friend will hold each other up through these tragedies. Just being there for each other, knowing that no words need to be said, or that any words you need to say will be understood, should be a comfort to you both. Take long walks together and let your tears water the Earth. Ten months is still such a short time in the process, and everything you are feeling is very common, if that is any consolation. Your husband’s reaction and feelings of guilt are also very common, particularly with suicide. Of course, your son made a choice, and it wasn’t your husband’s fault, but I think the automatic response is, “If only I hadn’t…” or “If only I had…” If you would like a referral to an active on line discussion forum for “survivors” of suicide, please let me know.

{{{Alice}}} ~ I will light a candle in Hiram’s memory tomorrow and in honor of you. I hope that he will give you a special heavenly birthday surprise and visit you in your dreams. Trust that Hiram is always right there with you.

{{{Daveydow}}} {{{Kathy}}} {{{Dee/Ericasmom}}} {{{Wendy}}} {{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} {{{BettyAnn}}} {{{Cindy}}} {{{Kirksdad}}} {{{Betsy}}}

and all {{{Friends}}}

My candle is lit and my prayers are going forth that God grant each of you peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Rhonda}}} Thinking of you today and sending you healing energy. I lit a special candle in memory of Richard, and I am praying for your strength, peace and comfort. God Bless You~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} ~ Your daughter's words are profound and filled with insight. Truly a gifted woman. Thank you so much for sharing her writings. She is rejoined with Sierra and they with your mother. I am so very sorry that you have had to endure so many losses. Bless your heart, and may God strengthen your heart physically and emotionally and show you the way to peace.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[daveydow1]

Midhar,

Please don't stop coming to BI. I think I am guilty of not

responding to your first posts because I knew I wouldn't

be able to say anything to someone who has such devastating

losses. I'm sorry---I should have tried. Everyone here is so

kind, and as someone said---the format could be a bit better

designed. I am just thankful that BI is here. It has saved me

a lot of times. You are kind and helpful to share with us your

sorrowful story. I hope & pray that you will reconsider your

decision to leave BI. We all need each other, and the help

we can offer each other. Peace be with you.

[daveydow1]

Rhonda68,

I am sorry that I posted on Feb.22 as Richard's angel day.

I knew well & good that it was Feb.23, but for some reason,

I got ahead of myself. All day today, I thought it was Feb.24.

Please be kind to yourself, and my thoughts & prayers are with

you. Peace.

[daveydow1]

Alice24,

I will say a prayer tomorrow on Hiram's birthday. Peace & Love.

Rose and Deewithgreeneyes,

What beautiful writings your daughters gave you. I'm sure that

you will read and re-read them and they will warm your hearts.

Roslyn,

Thank you so much for your candlelight remembrances for everyone.

My penpal from Scotland told me of going to a cathedral there on

one of her travels, and lit a candle for my son, Davey. I was so

touched, and it warmed my heart. I thanked her in a followup

letter. These things mean so much. Bless you, and thanks again.

Peace be with you.

[Artina]

I wanted to share with all of us surviving parents words I found in my daughters journal after the death of her first child Sierra...

Do not persue the past. Do not lose yourself in the future. The past no longer is. The future has not yet come. Looking deeply at life as it is, in the very here and now, the practioner dwells in stability and freedom. We must be diligent today. Tomorrow is to late. Death comes unexpectedly. How can we bargain with it? The sage calls a person who knows how to dwell in mindfulness night and day one who knows the better way to live alone.

Do not rely on individuals, rely on the teachings. Do not rely on words, rely on the meaning. Do not rely on the adapted meaning rely on the ultimate meaning. Do not rely on intellectual knowledge, rely on wisdom.

Those were words from my beautiful daughter, both inside and outside. Her death has affected so many, her life affected so many. Now I look at her urn of ashes and I want to be in there with her. God, when will this pain stop?

Your daughter sounds like a very wise young lady. Her words are strong and filled with truth. Thank you for sharing her words with us today. I pray that your pain lessons.

Peace to you, Tina

[Artina]

Hello to all. It has been a long time since I have posted, but I do visit and read all posts. I feel the pain of each and everyone.

Tomorrow February 24 is my Hiram's 26th birthday. This will be the 2nd birthday without him here physicially to hug and kiss. We will have a cake, sing Happy Birthday, bring flowers and balloons to him and share many hugs and tears. We are trying to be strong and celebrate his wonderful, fun filled life here for 24 years. I treasure each and every sign. He is with me all the time and I am learning to enjoy his hugs. I still wait impatiently for a visit in my dreams to see that beautiful face and to be able to hug him.

I would not trade those 24 years and as the song said:

I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED THE DANCE.

All my love to everyone. Please keep the candles burning and rememeber Hiram John in your prayers.

Alice

Alice,

I am thinking about you and your family as you approach Hiram's Birthday tomorrow. I agree with you so much, "I would not have missed the dance". I would rather live in pain for the rest of my life than to have never had my son. No doubts.

Peace to you, Tina

[Artina]

To everyone:

This is the poem my youngest daughter (Morgan) wrote for me for Christmas, she said she knew it was Nicholas speaking to her.

I AM

When in the night I hear you weep

Tis' I who comes and brings you sleep

Silently silloeting the still

Bearing warmth to sorrows chill

Billowing beneath the moans bright beams

My voice the lullaby in your dreams

When infinate darkness confine

I am the comfort that you find

Slowly sedating sadness reign

Lurking beneath undaunting pain

I am the way you feel inside

When the beauty of pain and hope collide

When life begins to take it's toll

I am the peace within your soul

Steadily spreading beneath the skin

Salvation am I to mortal sin

When fall do tears upon your face

Look to me as your saving grace

When you find no one else around you

I am the presence that surrounds you

Suffer shall no longer your heart

To you let this be forever known;

I am the reason your never alone

To my beloved mother; nothing is ever lost

Rmcaggiano,

What a beautiful poem. The words are powerful in thought and "realness". I believe that those words were Devinely inspired. Thank you for sharing it with us. Tina

[Artina]

Hi Mamabets,

I am very grateful that you have answered my e-mail as you are the only one other than Kathy that has.

I guess I do not belong here and I guess I won't be writing here anymore. I was told by someone on the loss by violence part to come here as no one usually writes on it. They said I would be comfortable here but I am not. I know it has been longer for me but that does not mean I do not still need others who understand the loss of a child no matter how we lose them.

Again thank you for caring. Jeni

Jeni,

It is our prayer (and intention) that we can all be comforted by each other... But sometimes we are all down at the same time or we can relate to certain topics... but never is it the intention of any of us to ignore another parent who has lost a child. This is a difficult journey for everybody and we do the best we can with a loving heart. I use this forum to "journal" and to pick up advice from those who share what they have done in certain situations. This forum offers alot and I pray that you will find what I have found- a support group that expects nothing from me, yet offers more than I could ever give.

Peace to you, Tina

[Artina]

{{{Jeni}}}~

I'm so sorry that I missed your last post. I had to go back to Page 3 to find it. Personally, I feel that this forum is cumbersome for responding to individual posts. I try to reply to everyone, and then my posts become extremely long, and I'm concerned that I'm taking up too much space. And I never want anyone here to feel slighted, so I fret over whether I've missed someone. It would be so much easier if the software for this forum was updated to allow us to post individual topics within each of the forums.

Also, I have noticed that it isn't unusual for only one or two responses to most posts here. Again, I think that is associated with the format used by this forum, as it is difficult to keep up with the different topics going on at the same time on the same page. On the last couple of pages alone, people have talked about dreams, talking to their children, signs, angel dates, sleep deprivation, illness, not taking care of themselves, and we've met a couple of new members. To me, that is a LOT to keep up with, especially, again, with this kind of format.

I feel exceptionally sad that you feel uncomfortable here, as I am the one who introduced you here, and copied and pasted your posts from the other forum (I think it was the Court System forum) here. I hope that you will reconsider continuing on with us, and I certainly respect any choice you make.

When I felt that I might not belong here, because of my unique circumstances, I was assured that there are no parameters on the pain of losing one's child. It hurts, and we all know it. It doesn't matter how long ago your child passed, or how your child passed. We all share the unbearable and unfathomable sorrow of physical separation from our children.

As I think I said to you before, Jeni, I can't even begin to imagine the trauma and heartache that you have been through and continue to endure. I give you all of the praise in the world for coping with all of it.

I want to hear your voice, lend you a shoulder, and cry on yours sometimes too, as I do with everyone here. If you change your mind, I'll be here.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your husband and Chris.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

Rosyln,

I don't mind if you take up a lot of space. This forum is for us to do what we need to do to get us through our grief... so post away. I have found that it helps to stay on track with conversations by hitting the "quote" button at the bottem of each person's post, so as to reply to individual responses. So, just hit the word "quote" and start writing. I hope this helps and allows you to respond directly to post that you want to...

Peace to you, Tina

[deewithgreeneyes]

I know that I am only a newcomer and I am reading about those who feel slighted because they aren't getting a response. If I can project something I have learned through my journey in this dark world of grief is that I find myself extremely sensitive maybe overly so. It is not our fault that we get that way, it is part of the grief, that desolate place of feeling abandoned, and alone. For me I find it helpful to take all that I read on the posts as lessons and learning that I am not crazy. The loss of a child, children, spouses, mothers, fathers, sister, brothers all losses through death cannot be measured. Pain and grief cannot be measured it is a equal opportunity employer. Equal in grief but in different ways. How are children died makes no difference, a child has died, be it from an overdose, accident, illness, violent. They are dead. The pain is the same for every parent that lost their child in any way. I am sorry and sad that people won't hang on just a little longer, read the posts and learn from them. Take comfort that other's are suffering and know how they feel. It's OK for us to be selfish at times and want to just vent our feelings. This board is for support and to link up with others that are going through the same thing. I feel sad when people leave or give up because they think people don't care.

[mom2angels]

{{{Tina}}} Thank you for your kind words and help. I do know about the Quote feature. I usually compose my responses in Word and then copy and paste here, because of the timing out feature of the software used for the BI forums. I go back and forth reading here and writing in Word. That is cumbersome. If I respond individually to every person, then my responses take up a lot of space on the page, which then moves other posts off the first page onto Page two then onto Page 3, etc. So, I compose one message, responding to everyone, and it is long and takes up space. The reason I don't want to take up space is because I don't want to crowd out the posts of everyone else here with my responses. That is one of the problems that I see with this format.

Also, this format isn't organized, so we jump from one subject to another, and that makes it difficult to keep up with the assorted discussions, unless we post immediately following another poster's message. If I reply 5 posts after someone, and two more topics have been brought up, then, I feel a loss of continuity in the discussion.

These forums don't have a search feature, so it's difficult to go back through pages and pages trying to refresh my memory of everyone's circumstances, unless we continually repeat our circumstances in each post. And not everyone has a profile.

I participate on several on line forums related to my son(s)' medical conditions, so I am accustomed to using state of the art bulletin boards, with lots of features for ease of use and facilitating discussion. I would love to see BI up date this forum with new software. I think it would make a huge difference in our ability to communicate with each other more effectively.

Perhaps I should suggest that to the administrator? I will ponder that!

Peace and comfort to you today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} You are so right that grief causes hypersensitivity in so many ways. I've also found that I have a tremendous need to be "understood." I feel that I am understood here, because, as you say, we all share a common bond. And that common bond is stronger than the differences among us as to what brought us here to this forum. I know parents read here, who never register and post, but are connected to this group all the same. Their energy is here as well, even if we are not hearing their voices. We all have to walk our own paths, but we are not walking it alone.

Sending healing prayers your way tonight~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[maskott]

First, and foremost, HAPPY BIRTHDAY HIRAM. May you have a joyous birthday. Tina, may you find some peace and comfort when you share the balloons and cake with family, friends, and Hiram. My thoughts, prayers, and best wishes are with you today.

The last few days have been hard. It's been an emotional roller coaster. I wake up in the morning as good as could be expected. I know Matthew is happy where he is. I've received signs that show he is around me. The day goes on and my feelings change abruptly. I'll be at work and the tears just start flowing until I am sobbing. This morning, I had an image of him sitting at the kitchen table, so I cried all the way into work. Now, I'm drained, my head hurts and my heart aches. Why do the emotions change so quickly? Why can't I just know that he is happy and leave it at that? Just venting...I know there are no answers but my mood changes so quickly I don't understand it.

BettyAnn

[deewithgreeneyes]

Maskott...I do the same thing, but when I wake up in the morning it is the worst. Reality hits first thing. I will be alright for awhile then my emotions go totally out of control and it is a downhill run from there. I don't know how you guys work, it has to take so much strength. I am on disability due to a recent heart attack and surgery, was ready to return and then Michelle was kiled. Had another minor heart attack and some other things with my heart so now on disability again. Right now I am packing my mom's things and my daughter's as I have to move. I still feel like I am in the twilight zone. Went to counseling yesterday but their suggestions aren't helping. How can it help when your heart just can't mend?

[maskott]

deewithgreeneyes...I'll tell you that working sometimes does take my mind off of things. My only problem is that I had to go back to work one week after Matthew died. (It was summertime and with vacations, I needed to go back) That first week back I had to walk through an empty shop area at night. Matthew was always in my thoughts and with the dark empty shop, I started thinking about him. I started sobbing as I walked around. Now when I walk through that shop, it triggers that night and I can't help but cry.

I'm sorry for what you are going through...the loss of both has got to be unbearable. You of course are in my thoughts. Best of luck in your move and hope it brings some peace.

BettyAnn

[deewithgreeneyes]

Dear Maskot, I commend your strength and courage to get back to work after such a short period of time. I can only begin to imagine how hard it must be to paint on "the face" as I call it. I hate having to put on "the face". I don't even like going to the market, as a matter of fact I don't. I went with my son last week and I heard a little girl say "mommy, I love you" this little girl was Kaili's age (my daughters little girl). I looked and saw this young woman and her little girl and started to shake. I took a few breaths and went to shopping again. Ran into a young woman my daughters age with a woman my mom's age, had a panic attack and left the store. I have been having many panic attacks lately. Had a mjor breakdown this AM have so many things to do for this move but can't get it done. My son has custody of his 2 boys 4 and 7 and lives 3 hours from here so he feels terrible that he can't be down here right now. He is having a very difficult time himself as he and his sister were very close. She was his best friend. Her friends call me on a daily basis and it seems no one can get over this. We are all basket cases, my family and her friends.

[peacefulnow]

Special thoughts for Hiram and his Mom. May your day be filled with wonderful memories. Cindy

[peacefulnow]

Going places is really tough. I stay home when I can because I feel as though I can "control" things a little better. I know exactly where every photo of my son is, where every momento is placed. If I choose to look at them, touch them...I can. But if looking and touching is too painful at any given moment, I know I can avoid them until I feel ready again. When I'm out in public, there is none of that control. I'm bombarded with so many things can trigger a memory of my son...and I can very easily become "unglued"...because I'm not prepared. It just hits me too fast and too hard. I can't brace myself, because I don't know what's coming next. I realize I can't stay hidden from the rest of the world forever...but it sure would be nice. Cindy

[deewithgreeneyes]

My prayers to Hiram and his surviving mom......

Thank you for sharing that with me that is exactly how I feel, out of control if I am not within my safety zone. Pretty scary....

[griffinsmom]

I stayed in my bedroom with the baby for the first 8 months....I was crying in the grocery store, while driving...just couldnt hack it. Now, its been 1 yr, 1 mo., and I still stay home- but do use the rest of the house (it is small), and can go to the grocery and not cry at the drop of a hat....but driving is still a problem.

We all just have to do the best we can, cause thats all a person can do. You can visit Griffins website...griffin-schwartz.memory-of.com for more bkgd. Peace to all of us left here.

[daveydow1]

Peacefulnow,

I feel as you do about staying home in my "safe zone". How

you described it is exactly the way it is for me. I feel

like I can avoid those things that pop up out of the blue

when you are out in public or on the roadways. I know how

you feel about seeing things that cause heartache and sadness.

When I drive, I usually see one of the blue fleet trucks of

the company whose driver fell asleep driving a rig, and ran

over my son, Davey's car, killing him. I always feel so very

sad when I see one of those trucks, and wonder if it is "the

one" that killed my son. I'm so sorry that your are feeling

so down. I think that home is a good place to be until we feel

we can go out. I am able to now, but I have my days when home

is the only place I want to be. My prayers are for you in this

time of your sorrow for your dear son. Peace & love.

[Michaelsmom]

Hi everyone - I come here once in awhile - it's the only place where everyone cares and understands your feelings - for those of you who don't know me, I've lost two children - Michael, who was 36 died Nov. 1 2002 and Carolyn, who was 40, died March 21, 2005. We're coming up on her anniversary date so this is a very rough time. I'm retired now and have a part time job (keeps my mind busy). I too like the comfort of my home. I never realized why but after reading everyone's comments, I can understand. For those of you who are having extreme difficulties coping I hope you've asked your doctor for drugs. I fought it for awhile but must admit that they help me tremendously. I get through the day.

Reason for my writing is I had something happen to me the other day that I must share. Only people at this forum would understand and not think I'm crazy! Ever since I can remember, my favorite bird has been the cardinal. Over the years every one has given me one in one form or another. Because if this, my daughter loved them too. While at work, I was taking care of a customer (I work at a small coffee shop and we have a drive up window), when I heard the singing of a bird. It's February here in Chicago and 32 degrees. I was amazed that I heard one. After about 10 minutes I had to look outside. In the one bare tree right outside of the window, there was a cardinal singing away. I believe that it was my daughter Carolyn greeting me. It's the first sign I've had from her so it made my heart sing. I don't think I'm nuts but I've only told my husband who said it definitely was her. The birds don't come here until around April especially the cardinals. I talked to the bird for a few minutes and then it flew away. These little signs that we get help so much - I quit looking for them and it finally happened. Please think of us on March 21. Thanks for listening.

Michael and Carolyn's Mom

[mamabets]

For Alice24- HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HIRAM!!! The angels have celebrated with you today. A reason to "Dance". You, my Danny and all of your teamates have guided us all, I believe, and with hope, love and understanding, where all of you now are ,will SHINE brightly, for always.... Much Love, mamabets

[kathy714]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,i just read your post about going to the market,after Nate passed,i found,and still do ,going to the market was the worst,just watching all the families,together and happy,also most of the food i would buy was centered on Nate.He would tell me a whole list of things to get,everytime i went shopping,and a lot of the time he would come with me.I still tear up everytime i go by the frozen pizza's,and i still clip coupons for them even though my husband and i don't even like them,

.I find it easier to go when i get out of work at 7am,there are less mom's with their kids,and more little old ladies I also lost my mom in 2001,so i understand how you must be going through such a tough time and the pain you are feeling.you will be in my prayers...T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[Mazey2]

OH you guys, all the things I am reading are exactly what I have been thru!! We all have many of the same feelings. I really love being home, safe zone! I think it is "self preservation"!! We use to go alot, now it has been almost 4 years since Chad died, but I just don't feel like it alot. I'm very selective still, not as much as I have been, but still selective. Tom, my ex-husband, live in Significant Other....whatever we call each other, ANYWAY, says to me a couple weeks ago..."what are you antisocial now". In a way I am!! I find myself annoyed, STILL, with shallow, superficial people and there are alot of 'em out there. Annoyed is sometimes a MILD way of putting it, I want to grab them and shake them and "go off" on them about what they should be so thankful for.....I get just crazed with some of them....and get so sick of just listening and ignoring, sometimes I do have to tell them! I just don't shake 'em!! Once "we" have been thru the most painful, horrific experience of losing a child it puts us in a different realm...and listening to others bitch about minute things makes me crazy! There are those who "get it" and have it together, I don't want to come down on EVERYONE in life, that's not fair. I try to remember they just don't know....

Micheal's Mom, I'm still lurking here too....the cardinal was a greeting. I have feeder's and get cardinal's and it was a connection before Chad died and I "know" it is still! Last spring, my daughter was expecting and one day I looked out and saw a baby cardinal, a female! A month later she delivered a baby girl!!

Davey's Mom and all of ya, the reminder's are constant....I try to "turn them around" to be positive, but often they just break me up with pain of what was. It's been 4 years, and the pain lingers just not as unbearable as often...it helped me alot when I first came here to hear that it wouldn't be as painful forever...takes alot of courage and desire to live on, if not for ourselves then for the others that love us and rely on us...eg. other living children/grandchildren, and the fact our "angels" love us and don't want us to feel so much pain every minute...

I HAVE A QUESTION....I'm really a believer in "signs" so now that I totally look for them, maybe sometimes I'm far fetched, but oh welll, If I want to believe it is him why not? BUT, for the past maybe 6 months or so, our phone will ring, just one ring or even a part of a ring at 1am ish. It is getting kinda eerie....no, he didn't die at 1am, (12:15 am) What do ya think??? It has happened about 10 times or so...last week I was taking one of my nightly trips to the john and heard it, looked at the clock 12:58am! What the???? Of course, with only one ring no caller id shows up!! It scares the ---- out of me, not so much anymore cuz it is happening so often. What do you think? I hope it is not a message of something coming.....can't take anymore!

Sorry, I don't post often to support you all, but I am always listening to you and caring about you all......WE are so lucky to have Mamabets and Mom of 2 Angels and the others here being so attentive to our needs. Thanks....

Sharing, Linda

[Mazey2]

I've scrolled thru more messages, and I too agree another format would be a great thing for here. There are multiple topics and I agree that it is so hard to respond to many that we would like to. Lazy, maybe, I am! But, when I was going to sites re: my son's injury, there were separate topics to respond to and individual posts. I have no idea how difficult it is to arrange that, but it would be helpful here. We have so many concerns....In the past, often I would just directly email some that I wanted to individually respond to. And, have developed some close friendships in doing so. I see many of you are using that means of communication also. Stay close....

Jeni, I feel badly you felt unresponded to....we all want validation.Please, know there are many of us that read and share with you.....I have always felt I wish there was some way if we are REALLY needing a response that we could asterick it or something!!God knows there are days we just need to talk, and others we need a response.

Sharing, Linda

[deewithgreeneyes]

Looks like we all share the same weird things huh? I am looking for signs, I am empty spiritually, used to be very spiritual. I found my daughters journal that she kept up for 4 years after the death of her first baby Sierra. Everything we are feeling she felt in her very young life.

she kept writing that through the death of her baby she was to be led on a different trail. A trail of compassion and love and she learned to mother herself, love herself as a mother would. She had wrote that she constanly felt Sierra with her. Sierra's birthday would have been this June, Michelle's last post was June of last year. A birthday wish was written every year. I don't have the strength or the spirituality my daughter had, not even close to it. I keep trying to pray but I can't. My significant other of 2 and a half years bailed on me during the crisis. He was here when I was notified Micheele was killed and bailed after. That one has made me very bitter. He said he would be here to help me pick up the pieces....but he's not. Never even went to my daughters memorial or funeral with me. Having another bad day today, not so much crying just very very lonely, I miss her.

[Artina]

Deewithgreeneyes-

Hugs XOXOXOOX. I'm sorry you feel so alone... I fear being alone. We are here, but I know it's just not the same. I wish I could meet you for a coffee and dessert... I love my coffee time with a friend. Do you have somebody you could call to get you out of the house? I know that's not what your talking about when you say you are alone- but sometimes the energy of others can give us the "oxygen" we need to move through the next minute.

Thinking about you, Tina

Tina

[Artina]

Griffinsmom,

Thinking about you... I'm glad that you are still coming here. I see your post every so often and I wanted to let you know that I am listening.

Tina

[Artina]

Mazey2,

It's been a long road hasn't it... Four years brings about so many changes, yet we still hurt and long for our children. I remember thinking, in the first year, that I didn't want to stop hurting because I worried that it meant that I had "moved on". How silly of me, I now know that not hurting every single minute of every day does not mean that I have moved on... it means that I am able to function in my grief. Life does move on and our grief moves with it.

Thinking about you, Tina

[daveydow1]

Michael & Carolyn's Mom,

I loved your post about the cardinal. I firmly believe that it

was a sign---it was something that doesn't usually happen in

your area. I must tell you also about my cardinal experience.

My son died 6/14/03, so it was warm out. Every morning---early--

I could hear a cardinal singing his heart out. This went on for

days and days. One day, I got up and went out to see if I could

spot this bird, taking binoculars with me. I saw him high atop

a tall tall pine tree. He sang each morning for what seemed like

about 3 or 4 wks. then was not there anymore. I definitely took

this cardinal as a sign that my son was giving me a message of

love. Keep looking and listening for those signs. They are the

things that warm our hearts and give us hope. I'm glad you had

the cardinal experience. Michael, Carolyn,are looking over you.

Peace & prayers.

[daveydow1]

Mazey2,

I can understand your frustration at people who just don't

"get it" when it comes to what they say to parents who have

lost a child. A few days ago, someone posted that a "friend"

asked how she was doing, and when she replied that she was

not so good, the other person said "Still"?? , as though a

few months would take care of all the grief, and a parent

should then be back to normal. It is so annoying to have

someone be so callous about our feelings, but alas, it does

happen. It is also very hurtful. That is why I believe that

it is good to stick close to home a lot. Even at my stage in

grief (going on 3 yrs.) I still find that I feel safest in my

own home. Take care, be kind to yourself, and post whenever

you can. Love & prayers.

[daveydow1]

Artina,

I notice that your posts appear in an orderly fashion, while

mine look jumbled because some lines are only one, two, or

three words. This makes my posts look so long and drawn out.

I don't want them to be that way. I don't type them that way,

but they appear that way as a post. Do you (or anyone) have

any advice for me to improve this annoying glitch??

[Artina]

Artina,

I notice that your posts appear in an orderly fashion, while

mine look jumbled because some lines are only one, two, or

three words. This makes my posts look so long and drawn out.

I don't want them to be that way. I don't type them that way,

but they appear that way as a post. Do you (or anyone) have

any advice for me to improve this annoying glitch??

Daveydow,

I'm not sure why your posts, post, that way. I clicked on quote at the bottem of your post to look at the way your post comes up on the "post now" screen and it looked fine from that view (as you said). Do you type it in a different program before posting? If you are cutting and pasting from a different program that could be why it is posting the way that it does. If so, then try posting the normal way (right from beyond indigo not from a different program) and see if the same thing happens. Just a thought. I just want you to know that it's not a big deal to me that your posts are longer... I don't want you to worry about that if it does bug you. Not a problem here.

Take care, Tina

[mom2angels]

{{{HUGS}}} To Everyone~

After feeling almost euphoric the past few days since my dream of Michael, and with all of the amazing signs he is sending us, a surge of grief washed over me today.

Jonathan has been asking us to take him for a ride in our van, and we decided that the weather would be suitable to take him out today.

And so, the three of us team-worked getting Jon ready -- diapered, dressed in sweats even though it was in the 70’s with two shirts, sock slippers over his sore toe on one foot and his burgeoning skin breakdown on the heel of his other foot. Because his bones are fragile, we have to roll him from side to side in his bed to do everything for him, making sure that he has a pillow between his knees so that they don’t knock together and shatter.

His muscles have atrophied, and he has no tone. He needs to gain about 30 pounds since his colostomy surgery in August 2004, but I think the best we’ve been able to accomplish is 10 or 12 pounds, even with his caloric intake. Thankfully, he is strong, just fragile.

Despite his pain in all the commotion to get him ready, then into his electric lift sling, then into his wheelchair, with all of the gadgets on it put into place, then lifted into our van and tied down, his smile just beamed.

He was going out. At last. It was all worth it to him.

In 1998, we bought this van for Jon and Michael, as they had outgrown our old van, and we needed a raised roof. We had two captains chairs custom made for Michael and Jon, so that they could ride in comfort, rather than in their wheelchairs. Because Michael’s neck muscles were extremely weak, his chair had a special wrap around head rest fitted to it.

The van came with a little TV, which absolutely thrilled our boys. It also had space for a VCR, and now for a portable DVD player. Stereo music in the back, where they were comfy in their captain’s chairs, and traveling was in our plans. The boys loved to travel.

Unfortunately, Jim’s mother died in 1999, and that began the chain of events that would end our traveling days. Fall 1999, Michael was hospitalized three separate times, for three weeks in ICU primarily each time, with pneumonia. He ended up with a Gtube for his feeding, and we brought him home and cared for him, and kept him out of the hospital until his final illness in May 2003.

Michael only rode in the van 3 times, and the last time was when we rushed him to the hospital. After that, he traveled by ambulance, and he only went to doctor’s appointments once a year and then, of course, his last hospitalization was via ambulance.

After Michael passed, I had so much difficulty being in the van with just the three of us. I would look at that special captain’s chair, Michael’s chair, and my heart would break into a gazillion pieces.

Once, I sat in Michael’s chair, and I found glowing strands of his gorgeous strawberry blonde hair on the headrest. Finally, I couldn’t take it any more, and I told Jim, I had to stop going out in the van, so he took Jon once or twice on his own, before Jon became ill in August 2004.

Since then, Jon has not been strong enough to go out, and we have to protect him against germs, because his immune system is compromised. We cannot deprive him of being in the van or enjoying his outings, even if he never gets out of the van until he comes home. For him, this is happiness, even if he must endure pain and discomfort to experience it.

And so, as we drove along, I glanced at Michael’s captain’s chair, and then I glanced back at Jonathan in his wheelchair. Jon smiled at me. I know that he misses his brother so much. But I also know that Michael is always with Jon.

And, then for the remainder of the ride home, I gazed out of my window, hiding the tears streaming down my face from Jim and Jon.

Even though I know what to expect, even though I pray that my children will die before me, and I have fears that Jon may outlive me now that I am getting older, regardless of all that I know to be true and my very profound faith, I am their mother. And it hurts.

Every day, I ask God to give me the courage that my sons have, and to show me how to live joyously despite the tremendous pain in my soul. Most days, I do fairly well.

Today is not one of those days.

I’m sure that I will feel better tomorrow. And I have faith and hope that I will feel better tomorrow.

It’s a long journey, my friends, and every once in awhile you revisit the places you’ve been before.

My candle is lit and my prayers are going up for all of us to find peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[Artina]

Roslyn,

Hugs to you. I'm glad that you were able to get out, yet I also want to acknowledge the difficulty you experienced. It seems that our grief is always tucked away in experiences that we shared with our children... sometimes a good cry helps with that pain.

You remind me of just how much hope there is still in my life. I feel such a peace when I read your posts- your faith is a reward that I appreciate. I pray for your health and for your son.

Peace to you, Tina

[deewithgreeneyes]

Rosalyn what an inspiration of strength and courage you are. I read your post and the history of your 2 wonderful son's. I will think of you tonight, your strength and your courage. Love, Dee

[deewithgreeneyes]

Tina thank you, I wish we could have coffee too. No, I don't have anyone close by here as I moved here to take care of my mother when she got ill. She died in July. Michelle and I took care of her here at this house I am at. Now I am still here trying to straighten things out. I was on my way but when Michelle was killed I can barely find myself from one room to another. Can't seem to concentrate on anything, projects coming out of my ears but nothing completed. Looks like a crazy person lives here. i used to be so organized now I don't even care if I go to the market (yuk) with 2 different colored socks on. Don't really care about much of anything but staying in this house and sleeping. Waiting for the anti depressants to kick in. I can't write about Michelle yet because I think I still can;t face that she is gone. Love, Dee

[maskott]

Rosalyn...I wa heartbroken when I read your post. The strenth that you have is amazing. You have always given all of us your strength in responding to our posts that my heart goes out to you now. Sometimes, it's such a tug of war. You want to please Jonathan but you know it will cause you heartache. As a mother, the dilemma is an easy choice. Of course, Jonathan comes before your pain. A mother will always choose a child's happiness over theirs. I hope today is a better day...more peaceful. I know I have many of the sad days ahead and I deal with them one at a time. The past few days have also been hard for me. Just the mention of Matthew's name with Jeff will bring tears to my eyes and then the sobbing begins. I light a candle every night. Tonight I will make sure I light it in honor of Michael and all the other children that are so close, yet so far away. I hope everyone can have a peaceful day today...I know I need it.

deewithgreeneyes...I have been doing my job for 30 years. After Matthew died, I had trouble remembering what to do...when to do it. Mistakes?...everyday, a mistake was brought to my attention. I couldn't focus...concentrate...even think right after Matthew died. It's gotten a little better after 6 months but the concentration is still a problem. Matthew is in my head from morning till night. Hope you manage to get things organized...I know it's a strain when all you want to do is stay in bed with the covers pulled over your head. As they say...take one breath at a time.

BettyAnn

[kathy714]

Dear Mazey2,i just read your post about the phone calls,your dear son passed at 12:15 am but the calls come about 1am,my thought is that is probally about the time he entered his spirit world or even the time that he reached heaven,just a thought,but theses are the thoughts i have to try to keep me going.I also agree since losing my son Nathan,my home is my safe zone,at one time i tried not to isolate myself,but it is to depressing,being around happy people,who think they have problems,but don't really. I was probally the same way at one time,complaining about silly stuff.AFTER traveling down the road i have been on the past 4 years,i can't even relate to that stuff any more,so i find it better just to stay home...T/C Kathy Nate's mom