Loss of an Adult Child

[kathy714]

Dear Momof2angels,thank you so much for your email,i have been wanting to look that info up for awhile now,i think you read my mind,my husband also was very excited about it and i think he is planning to email you himself,to thank you,i hope you don't mind.Also i am sorry you are feeling down,because you are such a great inspiration to me,i hope you have a better day tomorrow,i find myself it is the strangest things,that come out of nowhere,that will make me breakdown and cry.you will be in my prayers tonight,,,T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[deewithgreeneyes]

Thank you all for your support. I read a post about the phone calls. Strange, but I belong to a Native American Church called Song of the Earth. The Medicine Healing Woman asked me if I have gotten any phone calls. None yet. Michelle died at 5:30 pm. Also the birds, the cardinals....In the Native American belief birds are a sure sign the spirit is trying to reach you. I believe that the spirit will return in a form they know you will pay attention too...a song, nature, anything you have a passion for. i am trying desperately to get my spirituality back again but to blocked now. For myself....I can honestly say I don't know where my daughter is, I have never died so I con't know. We all have our paths of faith we need to hold on too, all of you hold on to yours tightly. I am not religious in any sense but I can't help but remember the picture of Mary weeping as she held Jesus in her arms. A parent's grief....

[rmcaggiano]

To everyone:

I came to this site not long after I lost my son (Nichols)and I know ALL of us

share the same undaunting pain. I wasn't sure for a long time, if this site

was a place where we as parents just came to share our everyday feeling and

pain, however, I have been able to actually communicat and talk with someone

(wn4ever) her name is Marty, she and I have actually spoken on the phone.

I lost my son Nicholas nine days prior to her loosing her Warren. We lost our

son the exact same way! She is the first live parent I've spoken to who I know

feels just like "we" all do. She and I have so much in common, it's almost

unbelieveable, I don't ever want to hang up the phone, she is what I've found

in nine months who I can really talk with. I just want to say "Thank-you" to

"KIRKSDAD" for having this site. I guess we NEVER think about "needing" others

as we all do until this God forsaken "death" has come upon us. I have needed

this, and I am so greatful that I have been able to find Marty,

(Warren Nicholas) mom! She can TRULY understand this PAIN that I have daily.

Thank-everyone for even listening and always remembering "OUR" children are

together..................RIGHT NOW!

Rose

[Artina]

I echo Rmcaggiano... I too am grateful. Tina

[kevsmom]

Alice

Alice

February 11th would have been my son's 26th birthday - he died last June 21 at age 25. I too would not trade having those 25 years, he taught me so much about myself and made me a better person for having been his mother, like patience, being a better listener, less critical and not so quick to judge.

Two months after his death I saw him in my sleep, it was not like any dream I'd ever had, it was most certainly a visit. He didn't say anything but, I did put my arms around him and he was really there. I remember it so clearly, not like dreams that you forget shortly after waking. I'm Reading Hello From Heaven - it was my Kevin consoling me about needing to know where is was and that he was ok. It gave me so much peace to know he's ok and a sense that he is with me in spirit always.

I still miss him desperately though, his wise guy humor and awesome smile, just as you miss being able to hug your dear Hiram.

Warm hugs, Irene (Kevsmom)

Hello to all. It has been a long time since I have posted, but I do visit and read all posts. I feel the pain of each and everyone.

Tomorrow February 24 is my Hiram's 26th birthday. This will be the 2nd birthday without him here physicially to hug and kiss. We will have a cake, sing Happy Birthday, bring flowers and balloons to him and share many hugs and tears. We are trying to be strong and celebrate his wonderful, fun filled life here for 24 years. I treasure each and every sign. He is with me all the time and I am learning to enjoy his hugs. I still wait impatiently for a visit in my dreams to see that beautiful face and to be able to hug him.

I would not trade those 24 years and as the song said:

I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED THE DANCE.

All my love to everyone. Please keep the candles burning and rememeber Hiram John in your prayers.

Alice

[ericasmom]

Hi Deewithgreeneyes, it is Dee again. I find it cool that you belong to a native american church. I took a class a few months after my daughter was killed, it was unlearning native american sterotypes. I teach third grade and love taking classes, I thought it may be good to occupy my brain with a class and so took this one. I learned there that most Indian Nations consider the number 4 to be most holy. There are 4 directions, 4 kinds of animals;flying; swimming;two legged and 4 legged. There are 4 seasons. I loved this information and began to sob as the class discussed it...My daughter's birthday is 4-4-84 and her date of death was the 14th of July of 2003. My little Wenonah,(1st born daughter). Anyhow, I have always felt a religion deep in me, a spirituality, and it has been a huge help in dealing with grief because I do believe Eri is in a peaceful place, and I certainly have felt her presence in dreams but in my waking life as well. I do hear her message in the birds, even in the deep winter and the stark landscape,a lone bird may sound right before i go into the house from my morning powerwalk, and I say hi ERica. Sometimes as I walk and it is still dark out before the sun rises, I hear a faraway train whistle. We live tneartwo sets of tracks and Eri and I both loved the sund of a train, I hear it as I stretch into the day and I feel it her saying hi Mom. My daughter was killed from her accident with a train and I thought I would hate the sound of the train, but i remember how much she loved it and so I cannot hate what she and i loved. I feel her walking with me and I have taken to talking directly to her, caring very little if I look like a nut I simply do not care.I talk to God and Eri and I ask that somehow we do things in such a way here on earth that makes the world a better place and that we do this with the help and energy of those we love and lost. I ramble on, I guess I just want you to know that spirituality can be a part of your life again, let yourself grieve as you must. Know you are not without support and friends here, and that someday you will not hurt the same way as you do today. I promise that it will feel different one day.

Thank you all for your support. I read a post about the phone calls. Strange, but I belong to a Native American Church called Song of the Earth. The Medicine Healing Woman asked me if I have gotten any phone calls. None yet. Michelle died at 5:30 pm. Also the birds, the cardinals....In the Native American belief birds are a sure sign the spirit is trying to reach you. I believe that the spirit will return in a form they know you will pay attention too...a song, nature, anything you have a passion for. i am trying desperately to get my spirituality back again but to blocked now. For myself....I can honestly say I don't know where my daughter is, I have never died so I con't know. We all have our paths of faith we need to hold on too, all of you hold on to yours tightly. I am not religious in any sense but I can't help but remember the picture of Mary weeping as she held Jesus in her arms. A parent's grief....

[ericasmom]

Hi there,I am so sorry for the loss of your two children...your heart must just hold so much. I shall pray for you to continue to see signs of your children. May the spring bring you great peace. I live in the chicago area as well, where are you? I am in the Oak Park area.

peace

dee

Hi everyone - I come here once in awhile - it's the only place where everyone cares and understands your feelings - for those of you who don't know me, I've lost two children - Michael, who was 36 died Nov. 1 2002 and Carolyn, who was 40, died March 21, 2005. We're coming up on her anniversary date so this is a very rough time. I'm retired now and have a part time job (keeps my mind busy). I too like the comfort of my home. I never realized why but after reading everyone's comments, I can understand. For those of you who are having extreme difficulties coping I hope you've asked your doctor for drugs. I fought it for awhile but must admit that they help me tremendously. I get through the day.

Reason for my writing is I had something happen to me the other day that I must share. Only people at this forum would understand and not think I'm crazy! Ever since I can remember, my favorite bird has been the cardinal. Over the years every one has given me one in one form or another. Because if this, my daughter loved them too. While at work, I was taking care of a customer (I work at a small coffee shop and we have a drive up window), when I heard the singing of a bird. It's February here in Chicago and 32 degrees. I was amazed that I heard one. After about 10 minutes I had to look outside. In the one bare tree right outside of the window, there was a cardinal singing away. I believe that it was my daughter Carolyn greeting me. It's the first sign I've had from her so it made my heart sing. I don't think I'm nuts but I've only told my husband who said it definitely was her. The birds don't come here until around April especially the cardinals. I talked to the bird for a few minutes and then it flew away. These little signs that we get help so much - I quit looking for them and it finally happened. Please think of us on March 21. Thanks for listening.

Michael and Carolyn's Mom

[mamabets]

For Mom2angels- I hope that you got my emails- I am thinking of you and every other dear soul here tonight that feels lost. I have been blessed twice this weekend... My niece Alison gave birth to Baby Sarah yesterday at about 1 PM and later in the day, my Jackie took a pregnancy test and we found out that she is pregnant. We all feel Danny so near, his messages have been amazing. While we all seem to flounder from time to time, our angels are continually as safe and secure as we could dream for them to be... I know where they are, but trust me... To be involved in such a "family" filled weekend without Danny's phone calls to me hourly or more, has been so hard. He was always such a huge part on the heartfelt stuff... He still is, it is just soooooo different, and so completely foreign at times. When all was so close and cozy this weekend, with the middle of the night pacings, I felt that Danny would have been pacing as well. They are all in Florida, Danny lived in Florida, and we are here in North Carolina. He was my sidekick when the rest of the group would just accept the happening of the moment... I have a brother whose favorite line is "Go with the flow". Danny was just one of those who would pull over on the side of the road to call here and I miss that!!! He loved the deep, deep "busyness" that went with loving so completely. Jackie is front and center now, and my hope is that she never, ever feels the need to doubt all that he is showing her. She is my other child, she is my only daughter...She is my best friend and knows me far better than I know myself. She is her own person, and she adores me. She is tormented by Danny's final hours. She closed his casket and she aches for the day when something just as profound can happen to her heart that will bring to her joy instead of agony. Her new life will bring her that. When you love so much, you always run the risk of being hurt. But, my God? The alternative would have been to not have had these blessed people in our lives...??!! Our days with Danny were wonder filled, and they are still.... Thanks for letting me ramble... I love you and all of my family here...xoxoxmamabets

[daveydow1]

Artina,

When I post, I just use the page here at BI to do that.

who knows why my posts get long and drawn out with

lines of only a couple of words. Oh well, at least

everyone knows why they are that way. Computers!!!!

They can be exasperating. I'll just keep on posting

as usual. Peace to you, and for everyone here at BI.

[mom2angels]

{{{HUGS}}} All Around~

Thank you for your thoughts, prayers and support. It means so much to me to know that you care and understand. You’ve made me realize that I went too long without that, and I wonder why I didn’t visit and join this site 34 months ago.

Yesterday and today are much better, as I knew that they would be. Jonathan’s mood is so elevated from our little jaunt; how could I be anything but better?

I am honored to be inspiring, as my sons have inspired me with their immense courage and strength, and my strongest desire is to reflect them by following their example.

{{{Tina}}} ~ Thank you for being here so steadfastly for all of us. You have a wonderful way with words. I am especially fond of this, which you wrote recently: “Life does move on, and our grief moves with it.”

That is the absolute truth. I haven’t figured out yet whether I have incorporated grief into my life, or if my life has incorporated grief into it. My life has to go on, but I cannot stop the grieving part of my life. So somehow, I must find a way to meld the two together, allowing me to function in meeting the needs of others, as well as my own needs. This is a delicate balance, as we all know.

Hope is the key to survival. And it is my “word” for 2006. I craft beaded bracelets in Michael’s memory, as Christmas gifts to friends. The first year I chose “Peace,” and “Faith” as the message beads for the bracelets I made as Christmas gifts. I think that is what I needed most at that time, only 7 months after Michael’s passing. In 2004, the message bead was “Love.” And last Christmas, the bead was “Hope.”

I pray we all find hope together.

{{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} ~ I was so sad to read that your significant other “bolted” on you after Michele’s passing. Yet another loss for you – I’m so sorry. My goodness, your plate is just overflowing, no wonder you feel so drained and disconnected from the Spirit. And those times when we feel so separated from God are the times when we most need that connection. I’m sure that God understands exactly where you are now, and why, of course. I will pray that you will be gently guided back into the place where you can reconnect. You truly have many angels to guide you there.

My sons have Native American heritage on their bio dad’s side, and I have long embraced these peoples’ beautiful culture. Our home is filled with Native American art, pottery and sculpture. My husband crafts and plays the NA flute, although he is British. So, naturally, I’m interested in your church.

Do you smudge? Do you have any Native American flute CD’s to listen to? I’m just thinking of the tools to help you get into your spiritual space, as I know that there is healing there. Do you have a Shaman or can you ask the Healing Medicine Woman to help you? Perhaps they could give you some specific rituals, which might open you up.

Also, I just wanted to join in on the conversation about birds. We do not have cardinals in our area, but Michael immediately sent us a hummingbird and continues to do so. Our garden is filled with flowers, which attract them, and they love to bathe in the waterfall in Michael’s Memory Garden. We videotaped a hummingbird placing the first bit of twig to make her nest to her two fledglings leaving the nest, many years ago. So, it is perfect that Michael sends them to us. They fly right up to us and flutter in front of us for the longest time. It’s amazing. I also know that Michael is sending me every bird’s song I hear.

{{{BettyAnn}}} ~ Thank you for lighting a candle for Michael, so very sweet and thoughtful. I think you are doing an amazing job of holding it together and moving forward, one breath at a time. I can’t imagine having to go back to work. The inability to concentrate and focus that you’ve experienced is familiar to me, and I’m sure to many of us here. I’m eternally grateful that I don’t have to go out into the world to work any more. And my hat is off to you, and every parent here who does.

And those tears that keep falling, oh, they will keep falling for awhile, BettyAnn. You will cry a river or two, and you will wonder whether you have any tears left in you. Just go ahead and fill up the buckets now. Eventually, you won’t need nearly as many buckets. I promise.

I found that the tears I cry since Michael’s passing are different than the ones I cried before. It’s one of the most difficult things to explain, but I probably don’t need to explain that here, do I?

I just remember the words of our dear Chaplain Rosa standing beside me, as I wept over Michael. I asked her if it was wrong for me to cry, because I am happy for him that he is free of his life of pain and sacrifice, and in God’s arms again, but I am so sad for me that he is no longer here in my arms.

Chaplain Rosa gently said, “Your tears are tears of love from a Mother’s heart. Every tear is a diamond of love for your son. Cry.”

Some months later, a friend told me about a Biblical passage, which I can no longer remember, which discusses God collecting our tears in a bottle.

He must have a whole lot of very large bottles.

{{{Kathy}}} I’m so glad you received the email. I hope that your husband will try the Flax Seed Oil. My friend just got the results of her most recent CT scan, and she remains cancer-free. This is completely contrary to what her oncologist predicted her condition to be at this time. And the only thing she can contribute it to is Flax Seed Oil with cottage cheese, several times a day, and following as much as possible, Dr. Budwig’s diet and suggestions. I just spoke to my friend last night, and she is praying for your husband, as am I.

{{{Rose}}} ~ I’m so glad that you and Marty finally connected! How wonderful for both of you to have each other to help along the way. How are you feeling these days, Rose? Any better? Hope that you are taking good care of yourself.

{{{Irene}}} ~ Happy Birthday to Kevin! I’m sorry if I missed that occasion on February 11. What a blessing for you to have a visit from Kevin. That is something, which I have not had, at least I don’t think I have. I have had dreams of Michael, in which I held him, and it felt divine to my soul. I’m also reading Hello To Heaven. I need to pick it up and start reading again. I wish I could devote an entire day to just reading! My comfort is found in knowing that Michael is with me, with us, always, just as you find your comfort in knowing that Kev is with you. Even in our sorrow, we can find blessings.

{{{Dee~Erica’sMom}}} ~ I enjoyed reading your description of the sights and sounds which remind you of Erica. I would have thought that the train’s sounds would affect you adversely, and I’m pleased for you that this isn’t so. Erica’s association with the number 4 is amazing, and yes, that is sacred in NA tradition. I also feel Michael surround me when I am in nature’s setting. In the breeze, the bird’s song, of course, the clouds… I talk to him too.

I found a wonderful song through Becki’s memorial website for her son Chris (MissingChris), entitled “I Believe.” I hope you don’t mind, Becki, if I direct folks to your website ~ http://christopher-kimbrew.memory-of.com/about.aspx

The tribute to Chris combined with this song really touches my heart. Your message Dee, reminded me of this song, especially the lyrics: “The people who don’t see the most

Say that I believe in ghosts

And if that makes me crazy, then I am

‘Cause I believe”

I don’t know how I could function if I did not believe. Michael’s contact with me facilitates my belief. Actually, the lyrics of this song describe how I feel perfectly. I wish that I had written it!

{{{Betsy}}} ~ The circle of life ~ Congratulations to Alison on the birth of her precious daughter, Sarah, and Congratulations to Jackie and to you on your upcoming blessed bundle of joy! May she have an easy pregnancy, labor and delivery.

These major family events, all those special moments now and yet to be, and it’s so natural for you to wish that Danny was here in the flesh to share all of them with all of you. I know that there is no doubt in your mind or your soul that Danny will be right there with all of you throughout Jackie’s pregnancy and the birth of his nephew or niece. Sarah and your grandchildren have a magnificent angel named Danny watching over them.

{{{Daveydow1}}} ~ Your posts always appear the same to me as every other post on the forum. Perhaps you are the only one who is seeing them in this “distorted” format, which would be a computer-related mystery that I could never possibly figure out! One more reason that I recommend that Beyond Indigo update the Message Boards” software to a more useable and efficient system.

{{{HUGS}}} to anyone I’ve overlooked without intention, of course, and to those who are reading, but not posting, and to all Moms and Dads, who read here but for whatever reason do not feel comfortable sharing here, and for all parents in the world, who are hurting tonight because they miss their beloved children.

My candle is lit, and I am praying for your strength, peace and comfort~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[kathy714]

Hi everyone,my niece Gina and i finally started a memorial page for Nathan,it still needs some finishing touches,which i fiqure i will work on a little at a time,it will be my new hobby.If anyone wants to check it out it is at..Memory-of.com then just put in Nathan Black when you get to home page,we also have one there for my sister in law..Cheryl Bang.Just make sure you put the little dash in after memory ,or you will get a totally different site..Thanks Kathy,Nate's mom

[maskott]

Kathy...went to Nathan's website and it was beautiful. Nathan was so handsome. It breaks my heart knowing you are feeling exactly the same way that I am...that all the people on this site (men and women) are feeling the same way that I am.

I keep thinking that I have to do one for Matthew. At first, we didn't have too many current pictures, but Matthew's old girlfriend just found a roll of film in her room. It had a few pictures of him that she made copies of and gave to me. So now, I can start.

Rosalyn...thanks for your comments. They do inspire me. I can relate to your words on "crying". I talk to Matthew all the time...and cry. I tell him I'm sorry for crying. I know he doesn't want to see me cry, but that's not going to change. I'm happy for him because I know he is truly happy where he is. I'm sad that he is not here with me. Sometimes I think I'm also sad that he is happy and I'm not there to be part of it. "He's being happy without me." That hurts. I agree with you that the tears are different and I don't know why either but have felt it ever since Matthew died.

Starting to plan Matthew's birthday party for March 26. I'm spreading the word to his friends. Other than that, not sure what I'm doing.

Thanks to everyone for being here and listening all the time.

BettyAnn

[deewithgreeneyes]

Mom2angels....thank you for your reply to me. Yes, it was hard when Kevin bolted but I found out why. Apparently he had a past girlfriend that had a son who was killed in an automobile accident. All he said is "I have been down this road before" and I would not be there for HIM emotionally 100%. Pretty selfish man, now he has another woman living with him. Ad an old cowboy friend of mine put it "You hang around rat's, you'll become a rat...and rat's eat each other" best your rid of him, not much of a man.

Yes, I am making arrangements to go on a healing journey soon, I do smudge and my woman shaman says when the time is right she is coming over to my home. She loved Michelle dearly and cannot speak of her yet without crying. I am very much involved with wolves and relocating wolves into the wild. Before Michelle died I was involved in veterinary treatment of wild wolves as well as tagging and placing radio devices on them to keep track of there where abouts. Can't seem to get back into that as well and that was my passion. I can only pray that she had 2 wolves guiding her and keeping her safe to the next realm. Her services were done by the members of my church. I have some beautiful Native American music that Michelle and I would listen to together but I have yet to play them as it hurts to much at this time. I am moving away from here to a small town as soon as this house sells, the town is surrounded by Indian reservation lands. My daughter was very much involved with the Chumash Indians.

Michelle's web page is on www.memoriesofmichelle.com please feel free to read her guest book. Love, Dee

[daveydow1]

Mom2Angels,

Thank you so much for your input on my posting

problem. I never stopped to think that it would

look normal to all of you at BI on your own

computers. You are right about the tears being

different after a child's death. My tears after

my son's death come on me so very suddenly, are

so bitter, and yet I feel better afterwards--to

some small degree. I've read that tears release

chemicals in the brain called endorphins, which

have a pain-relieving effect. I imagine this is

not always true for us parents at BI, though.

I'm so glad that Jon got his outing, and that it

helped him. I admire your determination and your

devotion. Michael is surely looking down on you

and his father, and of course Jon. Peace & prayers.

[daveydow1]

Mamabets,

Congratulations for new baby Sarah. I imagine she's

a beautiful little cutie. I'm hoping my daughter

Becky, who is due in Sept, has a baby girl, but all

babies are so precious--either boy or girl will be

very welcome. Thanks for all your posts--they help

a lot. Peace to you.

[daveydow1]

Deewithgreeneyes,

I'm sorry that guy ran out on you after

Michelle passed over. He probably wouldn't

have been much help if he had stayed, and

would most likely have added to your grief.

Your work with wolves is very interesting &

admirable. I believe that in due time, you

will go back to it. Right now is too soon

for you, but give yourself all the time you

need and someday you may return to your work

with these beautiful creatures. I pray that

the shaman lady is able to help bring you

some peace & comfort. Take care.

[daveydow1]

Kathy714,

I visited Nathan's memorial site. What a nice

looking young man. The photo album is such a

loving tribute to him. May you find peace and

comfort in your memories and love for Nathan.

[deewithgreeneyes]

Daveydow1...thank you for your response. Yes, I felt very betrayed, thought I had someone who loved me and was going to stand by me. I think you are right he would have added more heartache and grief to my life. Funny as it sounds I feel abandoned as well by my daughter...I keep asking and crying out loud "Why did you have to leave me Michelle?". I am so scared that I will never snap out of this pain and agony...please..did you feel like you died as well when you lost your child? It is haunting me, I feel as though I died with her. Never in my life have I felt so much agony and pain. Did you feel afraid to talk with people, even just a day with someone? I feel afraid because I don't want to have people affected by my grief, yet I cannot be happy or put on a smiling face. I find I can be OK for a very brief time, maybe a half hour and then the depression sets in again. I have never been a depressed person, always looked for the good in everything...I can't find it anymore. It has been a month since Michelle left and it seems the grief is getting worse. Did you feel this too? I feel like I am losing my mind...Love, Dee

[mom2angels]

{{{Kathy}}} ~ Nathan's website is wonderful, and he is a very handsome young man, indeed. I always appreciate seeing the photographs, being able to attach faces to names, and sharing in those special moments captured on film, which give us a peek into your life. The beautiful memorial sites so many have created here on BI have sparked an interest in me to create a site for Michael. I hope that you and your husband are having a good week, Kathy. I'm praying for you.

{{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} ~ I also visited Michele's memorial site today. A natural beauty, your girl -- you can just see the Earthiness exuding from her. And so many lovely tributes to her as well, which must give you so much pride in your daughter. In reading through the website, I could see that she was a loving free spirit, and I'm sure that she is all around you now. Somehow, she will give all of you the strength to carry on in her memory, with her love in your being. And, I can imagine that she will lead you back to the wolves, and back to the horses. My prayers are with you, especially with regard to your moving now.

{{{BettyAnn}}} ~ "He's happy without me" Honey, what makes you think that Matthew is without you? He is WITH you! I know that you mean that you are not in the same place that he is now, but do remember that he is still with you.

On my walk today, I was thinking of all of the things that I do not miss about Michael ... these were all health issues he had, which caused him pain and suffering, and which broke my heart every day, because I could not cure him. When I think of his struggles on Earth, I am able to let go of my own need to be near him physically, if just for that moment, knowing that he is free of that pain and truly in a state of bliss now. Happy, as we have known it in our lives, does not even begin to describe how wondrous his existence is now.

Someone very perceptive recently said to me that we put our children's happiness before our own needs...oh...that was you! See how strong you are?

I refer to this tug and pull as the "emotional dichotomy of grieving." On the one hand, we rejoice that our children are happy, and on the other hand, we miss them desperately. I tell Michael, "I'm glad for you, and sad for me, and I think that's the way it will always be."

Remember to be good to yourself. I'm praying for you as you prepare for Matthew's birthday.

{{{Daveydow1}}} ~ Thank you for your kind thoughts. Yes, I believe that tears are cleansing and healing, because they allow us a release of emotion. And that release is very important to healing. Congratulations to you and your daughter, Becky, on your impending granchild! I am praying that Becky has an easy pregnancy, labor and delivery of a healthy happy child.

{{{HUGS}}} to everyone, and as always, know that my candle is lit and I am praying for your peace and comfort daily.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[rhonda68]

Dear Kathy and Michelle's mom I looked at your beautiful web sites. Nice job in memory of them both. I feel sad and I feel your pain.

February 23,2005 Marked the year for Richard. My son,mom,dad, and i went to the accident site and the little cross was still up and a couple of his friends were there when we arrived it made me feel so good that Richard has not been forgotten. I have been very weepy since the 14th of this month. I don't feel well just so much pain that no one understands. Everyone just looks at me and kind of rolls there eyes and I feel I have no one to turn too. They just dont get the pain i feel inside. My heart is screaming. I dont know if I am going to make it!

Take care and I Love you all,

Rhonda

[deewithgreeneyes]

Mom2angels...I believe you are an angel yourself, so muchcompassion you have amongst your own grief and pain, an inspiration to all of us. I looked on the websites also, such beautiful and wonderful children and my pain and prayers go out to everyone. I am so sorry for all of your loss on this board. So sorry. Rhonda68 I know how you feel, I understand and we all do on this board. The pain is like no other because I think it reaches our souls. Everyday I wonder the same thing, am I going to make it. The only thing I do know is either I will or won't.If I do it will be to learn to walk side by side with this dark thing called grief. I have always been so proud of my children, they were my life< Michelle could walk into a room and people were instantly drawn to her, not only her physical beauty but her spiritual beauty as well. Again I say when she died...I feel I have died too.

[mom2angels]

{{{Deewithgreeneyes}}} ~

No, not an angel...I just remember the intensity of the pain I felt at the beginning, through the first year, and last year when reality set in. My husband is a rock and always here for me, and I am blessed, but he also lost his son, and eventually, I felt that pouring ALL of my grief onto him was unfair to him. So I clammed up. I dealt with it all internally, as I had no one in my life able to comprehend my pain. My friends still came to me with their problems and need for advice, but they were not able to return that for me, as my grief is out of their realm.

Everyone who comes to this forum needs what I needed then, so I want to do the best that I can to listen, understand, and care for all of you.

Dee, everything you are experiencing is "normal," for wont of a better word. Typical, expected, natural, common...It's only been a month since Michelle crossed over. You are still experiencing the rawness of your pain. Hold on, and keep looking for the positives in life -- they are there -- your son and your granddaughter to begin with -- but know that, for awhile, you will be inconsolable.

Grief tricks us into thinking that we are crazy or losing our minds. It feels like we are, because it is all too overwhelming to comprehend sometimes, especially in the beginning. Try writing, keeping a journal of your thoughts and feelings. Sometimes just writing it down, letting it flow out of you, is helpful. There is too much stuff crowding your mind, and you can't turn off thoughts that keep coming back. So, write them down. Make time for yourself to write write write.

This worked for me, but then, I am also a writer. I think it should be beneficial to everyone though. Just to have your thoughts OUT is helpful. Also, I write letters to Michael. That helps me tremendously.

A part of you did die with Michelle. I don't think that there is any question that this is true for every Mother whose child dies. What connection is more profound than the relationship between Mother and child? And because that connection is so deep, she will always live within you, within your heart and soul.

I felt uncomfortable talking to/being around people, and sometimes still do. And I can relate to your feelings of not wanting your grief to affect people. In time, this will lessen. If you need your own space, then people will just have to respect that. But, try not to isolate yourself too much, as this is unhealthy in the long term, and after awhile, some folks might just not think to contact you anymore, assuming that you might want to be left alone. It's a delicate balance, as is every aspect of grief.

I didn't think that the people in my life (other than Jim, my husband) were strong enough to handle my grief. So, I avoided spilling it all over them. Some of that was my fear that they wouldn't know how to handle it. And, after a few of my friends said the absolute-wrong-thing-at-the-wrong-time to me, I realized that I would just continually be disappointed in them if I relied on them for any kind of support.

In all cases, Dee, you have to do what feels best to you, best for you.

Yes, I would say unequivocally that the grieving gets worse before it gets better. I can't tell you when it will get better for you, as that is unique to every individual. It will always hurt, but it won't always hurt this intensely.

I think that you are in need of some deep spiritual healing right now, Dee. I think that you and your Shaman need to cry together and annoint Michelle's spirit with your tears of love. Don't delay your healing journey for too much longer.

I completely understand how you feel about listening to music. We have special music (R. Carlos Nakai, Inner Voices) which is sacred to us, as it belongs to Michael. Michael gave that CD to Jim, and it was one of Jim's first flute CD's which started him on his flute journey. In the hospital, the chapel TV channel played Inner Voices repeatedly day and night, and we played it for him when he passed and at his service. I still have trouble listening to it. I posted about this not too long ago. So I do understand, but I also know that music is healing. So any music that you can find which will soothe you in some way, or even cause those tears to flow, will be good for you.

Be gentle with yourself. You have been through so much. Try to allow yourself to feel your feelings and keep reminding yourself that they are normal and that in time, you will feel differently. I know that seems easy for me to say, but I can vouch that it is true, because I have been where you are now.

And someday, it's likely that I will be there again, and I will come here, and you will remind me of everything I've said to you.

Praying for your peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Rhonda}}} ~

I hope you have seen the messages to you on Feb 23 here...they are on pages 2 and 3 now. We were thinking of you and Richard, and I lit a candle.

I'm glad that Richard's friends remembered him, and I know that must have helped you. But, I'm so sorry that others in your life do not understand your pain and sorrow. Even though we aren't sitting right next to you physically, we are all here for you and with you. So any time that you feel that you can't go on, just remember to come here and talk to us. You know you will find compassionate, caring hearts here.

That reminds me of Compassionate Friends. Is there a group in your area? Perhaps you could find some new friends at one of their meetings--people who really do know how you feel and can give you real life, real time support.

Take good care of yourself. Remember that Richard is always with you. Always.

Prayers going up for your peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[rhonda68]

Thank you all for your very kind words. You have all been such an insperation to me. I am sorry sometimes I am not always keeping up to the posts. Sometimes its just too hard and I have a hard time to even think straight. I am just having a really ruff time right now. It seems I always do after each event hopefully I will come around again.

Take care of yourselves and know I love you all,

Rhonda

[rmcaggiano]

Mom2angels

I think I’m starting to get over this “bug”, it’s taken so long though. Along with my doctor visit, they started me on some other medication, it’s still almost impossible for me to get out of bed, daily.

It’s also very hard for me because Nicholas’ birthday is March 14th, he will be 22 years old. I don’t know where all of this time has gone, I miss him so much, it’s almost spring like here, and I just don’t want to be here, I am having a very hard day today. I can’t believe it’s going to be a year in May that he’s been gone! My doctor told me “it will never get better or easier, I will have to “deal” with it! She was very sincere and for the first time someone didn’t say to me, “it will get better or to go on”. I did have a dream of Nicholas the other night though, HE IS SO BEAUTIFUL!

Take care,

Rose

[deewithgreeneyes]

Good morning everyone, I said a prayer for all of us today, a prayer for healing. I know that I am not good at keeping up with post's either, not because I am selfish but I find it very hard to concentrate and keep things comprehended. I can't even begin to let you know the things I have done around here from lack of focus and concentration.

{mom2 angels}...My Indian medicine woman is coming to my house at 10:00 on Monday, she has some things she wants to share with me and needs time to prepare. So you are a writer? I have been thinking about starting a book for Kaili but I don't know how to start, I would love to write. A great talent you have.

I got an e mail yesterday and they are going to have a movie in Michelle's memory (surfing) called "Girls Who Rip" Michelle will be in it. The owner of a surf shop here is also planning a paddle out for Michelle, all women surfers and mothers. I guess I will be learning how to paddle out (smile). I will use her board.

[mattsdad]

I am one of the few dads that post on this forum.

The past month has become one that has tested my faith. It sometimes makes me wonder if I am worthy of all that God has to offer.

But, thanks to the constant vigilence of the great mothers on this site I have come out of hiding.

Not meaning to leave anyone out, I just want to let you ALL know that if not for you, tomorrow would be harder to face. Just remember you are not alone.

A mother's love is impossible to be replecated...

A father's love cannot be appreciated until his son is gone...We had some battles royale while he was here. But what I would give to have just one more. (I would even lose some arguments just to have him back)...

So, while all you moms feel such great loss, we dads suffer just as much as you. We just might not show it or express it as well as you all do.

Mattsdad...jeff

[donosmom]

Mattsdad

I just wanted to respond to your post, I know my husband had a very special bond with Matthew. Matthew worked for him so in my husbands days, he has no place he can go without reminders. They played online games together, worked together, worked out on the bowflex together, everything, it was the three men of my family, Matthew, dad and little brother Michael. So as close as Matthew and I were, he was a mama’s boy, there was an incredible bond between father and son that is just as tight. I worry so much about my husband he is in so much pain. I wish he would come here and post, but he just reads with me.

Matthews Mama Mary

11-3-79 – 7-13-03

[deewithgreeneyes]

Hi Jeff, I am glad that you are on the board, it is nice to hear from a man. Yes, men express themselves differently but by no means does it mean that the loss of Matt is less traumatic for you. I know you loved your son very much. Oh yes, the arguments between dad's and son's, daughter's and mom's. I am so sorry for your loss. My next door neighbor's son Steve died 5 months ago at the age of 27. Like you, Oroville is dealing with it in a different way but I see the spark has gone from his eye's. Ah yes, our test in faith. I have been fighting this battle since Michelle died which add's to the emptiness I feel. Just can't seem to get it back. A double whammy has really knocked it outofme. Makes no sense to me. They say God gives you only what you can handle, I think God made a big mistake with me. I am just breathing in and out, no rhyme or reason to my life, no light at the end of the tunnel. Usedto be I could always find light somewhere in my darkest days but this time there is no light.I have no doubt that when my mom died a part of me died,when Michelle died....life for me as i knew it ended.

[mattsdad]

Donosmom,

My Matthew and I did everything together when he was younger. We would throw the baseball around the back yard for hours.... We would play soccer in the backyard all the time. We played hockey together all the time. There was NOTHING we did not do(we watched STAR WARS at least 200 times together)

He was a gifted athlete (and I do not praise my kids gratuitously)-------Until he reached the age of 13 or 14. Then, he knew it all. He did not need me anymore.

I admit it turned me off that he did not NEED his dad any more.

Little did I know that this was the time that he needed me most. I withdrew as he excelled... I always let Matt be his own person.

He was ALWAYS a sportsman. He was ALWAYS a gentleman.

I failed when he diverted from MY ways of thinking when he tried to carve his own niche in this mortal life.

With my background I was brought up to be what my parents expected me to be. Matthew stretched the limits of ANY parents' patience...

But having said that, Matthew was a wonderful soul that walked this planet and tested all the boundaries that we parents set out as what we thought was right.

I guess if I had to do it all over again I would not have been so tough. He might still be around. But Matthew was always his own person. That I could never change.

Thanks for your time...

Jeff

[mattsdad]

Dear dee,

I have visited the web-site for your daughter. It is such a touching tribute to her.

It is not easy being a dad these days. While sometimes you just feel like SHOUTING about how you feel, it would not be expected or accepted.

I guess I never want to be felt sorry for---I just want to be understood that this is as hard for dads as it is for moms.

Well okay--- I think it is harder for moms...

We have a picture in our bedroom that says "Mothers hold their children's hands and hearts forever."

Fathers just walk behind:)

[deewithgreeneyes]

Mattsdad...thank you for looking at my daughter's website. Even my significant other (ex) of 2 and half years never bothered, course he bailed on me too. He was here when I got the "knock" on my door, but bailed out of the whole thing 3 days later when I got released from the hospital. I have been alone since then. Tonight he has called me 7 times in succession but I will not answer the phone. He left me at the deepest darkest time of my life and I am very hurt, betrayed and angry. Never again will he ever tell me he is here for me...Never. I don't know about you but I am a changed person. This journey of grief has shown me the true colors of people. Now I stay away from toxic people.Do you have a memorial site for Matt?

[ericasmom]

Hi Everyone,

just read a bunch of your posts, and I am crying at he ache but also at the great sharing of hearts here. It is lovely to see everyone expressing themselves with so much soul.

The conversation about dads and moms? I know erica's dad can't seem to come on line or talk to a therapist, he is a rather lonely person and now he is shattered. It is over 2.5 years since Eri was here and he talks to few people about his hurt, his loss. My son and he live together, and together they stay fairly silent and yet there is an unmistakable unity in their hurt. I ask Erica and God to help them find a way to reach out for others. My son is doing more of that with me, but not around his Dad, and very little around his friends.

To Rose,

My girl would have turned 22 on April 4th. It is so very hard to travel your child's birthday without him here, my heart breaks for you. And approaching the date that your boy left will be very difficult, there is no way to know what you will need, whether you want to be left alone, if you want to do some sort of memorial or gathering, if you want to stay very busy, it is all so individual, just like our babies, all so special, so absoulutely different from any other, our little snowflakes.

I have found that while the pain, the missing, the absolute sadness never goes away, there is a softening later on, one that I am feeling now at 2.5 years into this journey. At first I was scared, as though memories were leaving, getting blurry, but it was not that, it was some of the sharpness of pain leaving leaving softer edges. My prayers to everyone here, and my hopes that we all dream of our children tonight.

Peace,

dee

[ericasmom]

Dearest Rosalyn,

I meant to tell you that I am enjoying your words, I write a great deal in journals and poetry and the like, I am moved by nature's amazing cycle. Eri used to tease me about my daily sunrise walks, told me I was nuts to walk when I could be sleeping but I talk to her regularly on these walks, and she definitely communicates with me as well. You mentioned clouds, I too look to the clouds for inspiration, for affirmation. ERi loved the wind, and in it she sings.

Peace in all the ways possible,

dee

[Artina]

Mattsdad,

I appreciate your honesty. It's nice to get another father's perspective on their grief experience (as we don't have too many dads who belong to this forum)... thank you for sharing your love for your Matt- with us.

Peace to you, Tina

[enufalreddy]

I haven't been visiting BI much lately. I find it hard to read the posts sometimes because it seems to intensify whatever emotion is ruling my life at the time. Walt's birthday has come and gone.His angel date is April 19th. I don't know how I will ever survive that day.I already feel as if I will explode and crumble into little pieces.I have lost 3 of the most important people in the world to me in the month of April. I want to go to sleep at the end of March and wake up sometime in May.Can I do that?????????? If anyone knows how please let me know.There is so much pain here. I think that is why I've been staying away. Always a new parent with a new raw loss...that gut renching bitter pain of the loss ... another pre-empted life. So am I selfish in staying away?? I don't know. Of late I think it has been a self preserving action on my part. Every time I hear of a new loss all I can feel is the terrifying agony that I felt when the hospital would not give me info on the phone and I had to drive over an hour to get to where he was to find out if he was dead or alive.Thank God for the friend who drove me to the hospital and stayed with me and helped me try to make sense of the senseless.She sat by herself and waited while I sat with Walt for about 30 minutes talking to him.Touching him.Crying out my heart to him.Then helped me deal with the paperwork and medical examiner.I love you all and pray for us all...but I can't come here all the time. It just hurts too much............Erma

[kathy714]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,i went to your daughters memorial,such a beautiful girl,so sad,i am so sorry for all you are going through.Since i started Nathan's site i have been searching other memorials,and it is so strange it seems like every site i pick has something related to me or my son Nate.Ijust was on a site,the baby's name was Johnathan,on the site was a poem using the baby's name,and there in big letters was JOHNATHAN,all the sudden i noticed Nathan's name in johnathan.That is just one of many.Also since i started Nate's site i have been finding pennies everywhere.Sorry i just had to share that...T/C ,YOU WILL BE IN MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS,Kathy,Nate's mom

[kathy714]

Dear Mattsdad,maybe you should shout how you feel and other dad's will follow,you know they all want to.My husband has always been the type that never wanted to talk about his grief,and he has had lots and lots of loss,starting with his 8 year old brother,getting hit by a car when John was 10.Finally one day our councilor made him tell her about that whole day,and it was the 1st time i heard it and i have been married for 25 years.He walks around flipping down pictures,i walk around putting them back up.He still hasn't gone on Nathan's site,i don't know if he will,but he does talk somewhat about Nate and he does cry once in awhile,that is big for him....T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[kathy714]

To All,i want to thank all that have visited Nathan's site,it means so much to me and helps keep Nathan's memory alive,Thank you all so much for being here when i need a shoulder to cry on,i will keep you all in my prayers,and there have been many these days....T/C Kathy,Nates mom

[julsmom]

For what is worth, here’s my 2 cents on Dads (men) grieving. Men do grieve differently. Their relationship with their child is different than Mom’s relationship. And while I think as a society we’ve come along way, there is still some of that “be the man and don’t cry” stuff still going on. Also I think Dads think they are the “protector”, that they should have in some way protected our children from everything, including their death.

As for what God give us to handle, I believe it is only through God’s never ending Grace that we can get up each morning, put one foot in front of the other, and breathe. That some times it is more than we can handle, but through our faith we survive.

May we all find peace and comfort, Lynda

[deewithgreeneyes]

To everyone on this board...so much compassion, so much insight and so much love. I am going through all the memorials today, I too have stayed away because of the pain I feel for all of you. But I am going to do it today out of respect for all of us who havelost our beloved child.

Mattsdad..for what it is worth I would like to share something with you. Michelle's brother Mike is an ex-marine. Being a marine he was literally broken down to not show emotions (he was in the reconnacence unit) tough unit. He keeps saying he has to be a soldier...yet on Valentine's day I walked into his home and found him staring at the wall with tears streaming down his face. When I approached him he literally ran to the bathroom turned on the shower and I heard him racked with tears, a cry from him from the depth of his soul. He told me he is like a soda can, and can only let small amounts out at one time for fear he will lose it...(control). All their lives they were like bread and butter....so close. Mike feels that if he were at the beach the day Michelle drowned he could have saved her. He would go surfing with Michelle every weekend, just so happened that weekend he was hiking with his girlfriend. Mike's specialty in the recon unit was water survival and rescue, a very powerful swimmer...now he feels he let his sister down. Guilt. I try and tell him things to help him feel better but it doesn't help. Her father has thrown himself into work that he is driving himself into the ground. He is a vietnam vet, saw many terrible things in Nam and says he has to put his mind back into the frame of mind when he was in Viet Nam....don't feel. Yes, society has put a terrible burden on men and grief. I am sorry for that. Love, Dee

[briansdad]

For all the Fathers,

I told people if they were uncomfortable around me when I cried that they should go. I refused to let the tough guy image stop my grieving. I did absolutely nothing for at least two weeks. It’s been 17 months now and I still have times that I cry. If it's in public, so be it. I DON"T CARE.I love my children more than anything in this world and I'm not afraid to show it. Brian was my best friend. I miss him everyday. Was he perfect? Not even close, but who is? He was as kind a person any one would ever know. He was a good father. He had his daughter at an early age. Only 19.When he and his girlfriend broke up he got the baby EVERY weekend. He NEVER complained about having her. I’m sure it put a kink in his life style.He was my golfing buddy, my fishing partner and yes Mattsdad we too played hockey together.

I guess what I'm trying to say to all the fathers is to hell with how others think you should act. Act how you feel. It has helped me.

[deewithgreeneyes]

Hurray for you....I'm proud of you that you stood up like that..that is strength, courage and s ure sign of knowing what being a man is about. I too cry in public and don't care what anyone thinks...my perspective on life has changed me drastically.

[daveydow1]

Deewithgreeneyes,

Thanks for your post. Yes, I felt as though part of me

died when my son, Dave, died in that horrible highway

crash nearly 3 yrs. ago. I still feel like only part of

a person most of the time. I too avoid contact with too

many people, and I feel exactly as you do when you said

that you don't wish to have your grief affect them, but

find it hard to put on a "smile" face in their presence.

I have those feelings also. I also felt as though I was

"losing it" after my son died. I was so disoriented. What

you feel now is what most people feel after such a devastating

loss occurs. It is a good thing to avoid toxic people. I

have fallen away from some of those who did not want to

be around me or talk to me... We can't allow ourselves to

maintain contact with people who are harmful to us--regardless

of their real intentions such as "meaning well". I hope the

medicine woman is able to help you find some peace. I visited

Michelle's memorial, and she is such a beautiful young woman.

She looks so comfortable and "at one" with nature, the sea and

all. I pray your son is able to get past his guilt in due time.

Bless him---my heart aches for all of you. Kaili is so sweet. I

may try to do a memorial for my son in due time. Not too adept

with that kind of computer work though--wish me luck. Peace be

with you. p.s. I LOVE horses also.

[daveydow1]

Rhonda68,

I am sorry you are having such a hard time, especially

with people who don't seem to understand. I sometimes

feel that if these people don't understand me, well then

that's ok too. I will hug my love and memories of my son

to myself--I don't need them. Your love for Richard will

always remain strong. Hold your memories close. Peace

be with you.

[daveydow1]

Mom2Angels,

Thanks for your kind words. Your posts are so

comforting. Bless you, and peace & comfort be

yours.

[daveydow1]

Mattsdad,

Thank you for your post and reminding us moms that

dads are having a rough time too. My husband is just

inconsolable. He says there is nothing anyone can

say or do to alleviate his pain. He will not show it

most of the time. He is also a Vietnam vet---USMC,

and does hold his grief to himself. Your closeness

with Matthew will always make the separation that

much more acute & painful. Thanks for the input from

a dad's side. My prayers are for you & your family.

I pray for my husband also. In the meantime, he is

just extremely sad and lonely, as I expect he will

always be. May you find peace & solace.

[daveydow1]

Ericasmom,

I agree with your statement that after 2.5 yrs. your

grief has "softened". I feel that I am at that stage

myself. We are at about the same point since our children

passed over. The pain sorrow and regret are always

there, of course, but as you say---It has softened a

bit. I believe that the grief journey is a life-long

experience to the end. It's been 35 yrs. since our 6-mo.

old baby girl, Lisa died, and although our grief has

softened from our loss, we still mourn. I pray that

you will find peace somehow.

[deewithgreeneyes]

Great hearing from al of you. As you said I feel as though I am going crazy but I was told my my doctor today that the majority of suicides are from loss of children. Also isolation is extremely common is the loss of a child. All natural reactions. I shared with her my feelings of like I lost my life as well. Very natural she said but she also said life will never be the same as you knew it. Yes, I have been staying away from toxic people. Me ex has called me 9 times today (no message) and I refuse to pick up his calls. He abandoned me at the worst time of my life, he is no longer a friend of mine let alone a boyfriend. I refuse to have contact with anyone he associates with as well. As far as I am concerned he can consider me dead. I suppose he is calling me out of guilt but I will let him live with that one. I supported him through some pretty rough times in his life and I am very angry with him.

My thoughts are with you all...Love, Dee

[deewithgreeneyes]

How do I find the memorials for all of our children that have been lost? All of us on the board I can't find your child, says I need last names on this memorial site...