Loss of an Adult Child

[L074003]

Yes Dee I am, in fact I am speaking at Southern Nazarene University on Tuesday about Organ Donation and The Compassionate Friends.  I am speaking with the Organ Procurement person that worked Matthews case.  The first time we spoke together it was pretty tough but now it is a good thing.  Thanks for asking.  Mary

[summergirl]

Bonnie - frog blanket for you then...I hate to think that you have to "share", so when you get the new one you decide which you want and Emily can have the other. No I have not made PJ's but I certainly could...have been a sewer, quilter, upholsterer for many years...never professional as I hate the thought of "having" to do something. I am much happier making things and giving them to people I know will enjoy them and and cherish the love that goes into it and with it.

Rosie - I feel for you so much, the pain you are experiencing is and the questions you ask yourself are all so familiar...many times I would drop to my knees begging God to just give my Jessica back to me because she belonged here with her family, there must have been a mistake so send her back. I many times got through the day by pretending that Jessica was away on a long vacation, away at college, anything but say that she was "gone forever and not coming back"....we do what we have to do to get through each second, each minute, hour, day.....it is so hard my friend I know, believe me we all know, please stay with us even if you just read and I promise we will get through this together, lean on us, we will never leave you.

Colleen - I hope that you will continue to go out with your friends although it is hard on you. I remember the being "jealous" of all those we would be out with, talking about their children, the normal lives they led and I would just want to scream at them that I did not want to hear it....did they not know my Jessica was gone, did they really think I wanted to hear about their children and all of their "happiness", all I would want to do is go home to my "safe zone" and forget the world....but reality hits and I have come to realize "if Jessica were still here and my friend lost her child wouldn't I be the same as they???" diffacult but a must in order for me to become the "new normal"....life does go on for other's but I am fortunate to have a few good friends who do everything they can to let me be who I am now and I am grateful for that but most of all I am grateful for BI, for finding this place has allowed me to move forward knowing that I am not alone. I pray for you and keep you in my thoughts.

Lorrie - am thinking of you as Kourtney's b'day comes upon you...am glad you are celebrating with a cake. Love the pic....a beautiful family....

To all Indigo's I am weary tonight so putting Tavian to bed and try to read, maybe that will help me get sleepy...I think of all of you daily and all that you bring to my life.

I will try to catch up on all postings soon....this is all I am able to do right now.  Prayers and sweet dreams to all. Kathy

[heartbeataway]

Rosie - I feel for you so much, the pain you are experiencing is and the questions you ask yourself are all so familiar...many times I would drop to my knees begging God to just give my Jessica back to me because she belonged here with her family, there must have been a mistake so send her back. I many times got through the day by pretending that Jessica was away on a long vacation, away at college, anything but say that she was "gone forever and not coming back"....we do what we have to do to get through each second, each minute, hour, day.....it is so hard my friend I know, believe me we all know, please stay with us even if you just read and I promise we will get through this together, lean on us, we will never leave you.

Kathy,

I can't wait for the new blanket ..... and yes, I know that it's woven together with your love and that's what makes it so, so special.

For whatever reason, I'm sure my blue mood, your words brought me to tears.

Sometimes when Jay's friend post a picture, my mind screams, "would someone PLEASE give him a ride home?"

Or I stand at the window and look at the sky while begging, "please give him back, I'll do anything, just give him back"

The reality of this life ...... and that this will be life until my last heart beat is just so overwhelming at times.

Much love for the journey,

Bonnie, Jay's Mom

[aim630]

Kathy & Rosie: I feel like this is all a mistake & someone is going to call me and say Ashley's still at the hospital. I KNOW that's not true, but I still feel like that. For the most part I am holding it together, but I think it is because I haven't accepted the fact that this has happened. I feel like Ashley must be at work, or with her friends. She didn't live here for a few years, so I did not see her every day. I hadn't heard her voice in 3 months since she was on the respirator, so it's not like she could call me either. I don't know if this is healthy or unhealthy, but I know if I really think about the fact she's gone, I will completely lose my mind.

Went to a meeting of Compassionate Friends & it helped a little. I think they are surprised I am holding up so well since it's only been 2 weeks, but I think I am in denial still. It will probably hit me more as time goes on.

Next month's meeting is about anger & God, and I definitely need to go to that.

[ericasmom]

Mary, I do agree, it must be a very good thing to use your heartache to aid others as they find their steps on this journey. Don't forget however, you're on this journey no matter how many years, and while not as often, we still fall down the hole sometimes and feel the depth of our fall. Be kind to yourself Mary, treat yourself the way Matt would have you do. Treat yourself the way you have advised others to treat themselves.

Have you read The Sum of Our Days by Isabele Allende? I think that you might like it as it too is a Mom telling her long gone Daughter what the family has done since she died. A very good memoir, the sequel to Paula, who is the Daughter that died from an illness. Both amazingly great.

Be well.

Amy, I am glad that you are a realist, knowing that this ability to go through the motions right now probably has a lot to do with your personality, the one who takes care of others no doubt, and also the shock that simply has not begun to shed itself. It will not shed all the way in one release, it wil go in pahses, the wonders of the mind and body connection that somehow takes care of us when we are spinning in a different direction. As Kath said, we will be here for you all, so when the days and nights get tangled up in your grief, we are still here because we know the absolute length of a day without our Babies.

Rosie, let it out Kiddo, it has no place that it fits, this grief, least of all buried inside of our souls, LET IT OUT!

Bonnie, I know and I am holding your little self tight against my heart.

Carol, I laughed and laughed at the voice and mannerisms(just like his Daddy). Thanks for sharing such a Dolly.

night night all,

dee

[tanmanmymagicman]

Colleen, you are not getting worked up over nothing......It is what it is and I feel like I am just living but not alive....I feel like I go through the motions of life but will always feel this layer of numbness covering me.....I can't believe this has happened to my Tanner and to our family......How can it be?????????????

But each day ; another day; we just do it......some better than others......I am happy but I never feel the deep happiness or look forward to anything.....I often think how did that once feel.....???????  I am doing the self pity always.....its me....now; its my life....no one really knows me anymore because I don't know me???? I am unpredicable but try to act normal because no one knows how sad I am.........

No one wants to put up Tanner's flyers this year for his scholarship....they say they will and I drive by and they are not there......wonder why??????  I am not motivated like I was last year.......

Blessings to everyone....I never have anything much good to add; just my selfish self....but Colleen I hear ya;  So senseless the way we lost our 16 year old son's..........16 they didn't get to live the best years of their life.

Tanners Mama Gama; Cindy

Sorry I can never give back everything I have received from this site; but I honestly believe in 2008 this site save my sanity........and I appreciate it very much:)

[pknight]

Hello Kathy and all,

Sorry for missing Jesica's Day as well as Jaboa and anyone I might have overlooked. Have been reading but am way behind.

I work with a CPA so needless to say we are in the middle of 4 months of hell. I need a cheat sheet of everyone as I am having brain farts more often than complete thoughts. I am blanking on clients names that I ve been dealing with for years. I went back to work this time last year & made it through the 15th but then crashed for 6 months.  I thought once I passed the anniversary 2-1, birthday 2-4 & all the uproar of living in party central that I could get a grip. But, every weekend I relive it, hell everyday @ 4pm my heart starts pounding & I choke back the tears until I am out the door trying desperately to make it home. I hate crying all the way home in rush hour traffic. I can only talk to y'all & my therapist. Everyone else seems to either be over the 3 years of cancer & subsequent death or else just at a loss. My friends are my only family besides my daughter. My family fell apart 30 yrs ago tomorrow after my father died and mom comitted suicide.

I wish I had more to contribute to the group, but after pasting a smile on all day (especially on days when our only 2 new clients that day had birthdates of February 1st) I am just empty. I can't even bring myself to fight to get checks reissued from the F'n ins. company that have been dicking us around since day one. It is for money I borrowed to pay for his funeral so I am dicking my friend around by being a big fat coward. Everynight I go to bed hoping ( & praying) I won't wake up to another day and when I do I scream the same thing "WHY WASN'T IT ME?) I have been sick for most of the last decade- had to go on treatment when Kenny needed me and I am still here. My beautiful bull of a son gets cancer & dosen't even make it 2 years. I made promises so don't think I will do anything stupid. I take my medicines and mostly take care of myself. My prayers now & have been since he passed to help me to get off my ass & do something positive in his name & help in patient advocacy for young adults & their parents. All I do now is write to Kenny in my pocket notebook & come here. I tell myself I will get there but I am sorely disappointed in myself & my daughter.  We have talked about doing so much, but so far it is only talk. For today (as far as I know) she is sober & Kathy I know you would be so happy if you could say that about your son. I do so hope that for you too. I am sorry guys, I am going to get off my pity pot and consider where I am. You each know the pain and you go on and give and contribute.

Warm Hugs & Love to all not mentioned but not forgotten

Kenny's Mom

Pam

[mikesmum]

Carol - The trip with Colleen was before you all arrived.  We did a quick look through a brochure and there was a day trip around MN - avail for one day only!!  Sightseeing, talking and just being 'us' the mums who lost their sons.  Like all of us, we had never met, but the connection was made here.  Strong and unconditional.

Love the picture of Mikes son.  Was Mike fair when he was young?

The VW, the blue bag, the purple boots, the pretzels - part of a day that saw us enjoying our 'new normal' without the boundaries of the old. 

Had a call today from a 'reporter'.  I guess it was prompted by the article about the 911 dispatcher saving his son.  They wanted an interview 'a day in the life'....Thanked them very much for their time, but no thanks.  That was a lifetime ago..

Jeya went home last night....having grandies is like breathing fresh air 24/7. No pollution, no dust, no heat, no mental struggles....just soft gentle air......ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Miss Jeya AC/DC princess

Muttleys BFF

Ahhh gotta love a spa

 

[hotrod]

Good Morning Indigos

 

There are so very many, powerful, soul stirring messages posted, since I last signed in , I do hope I can acknowledge them.

 

Cindy  I agree I do believe that BI saved /is saving my life and I am enriched daily from all my connections here. Tanner is such a sweet young man so good to see his picture this AM

 

Bonnie and Dee I too sometimes sit quietly and say "How can this be my life"  How can I not see him again until I draw my last breath"? Bonnie your plea "Send Him Home" resounded in my heart and soul 

 

Claudia your Thoughts on being a shattered pottery vase, rang so true and I am very glad that "The Potter" is reshaping and refining me to continue.  Yes I will never be the vase I was before all shinning . an unbroken and new but because of this pain, I will have more compassion and understanding for the world.

 

Carol, Usually I can only smile and imagine little  Daman's when you tell a sweet story of him.  This time with Video did say a thousand words  Precious I hope your sister and family are doing well

 

Trudi Speaking of Precious Jeya with as/dc horns and with Mutley was such a heart warming treat.  Thanks  I am so sorry that the headline interfered with enjoyment of your day.  I have found that happen so often.  I moved to a different place in my soul and something happens to tear me back.

 

Colleen I completely understand you feelings about being with your friends .  The conversations and the things that people find upsetting and annoying seem so very silly and trivial. Since coming to BI I can now handle  interactions with people but I must  limit to a few hours.  I find if I go to a movie or show I can keep them focused on that topic and the night is fine.  As Claudia said  We are still broken pieces of clay.  I think you are making great progress.

 

Dee and Sherry I love hearing about the Dear in your front and back yards  How very special.

 

Lorrie  I hope you are feeling better  Love the new picture of your angel.

Betsy I do hope the sun is shinning and that Rich has touched  your heart

 

Lynn, Kathy, Pam, Rosie ,Mary Ann, Mary, Amy,  Kim, Beth, Leah, Greg, Dan, Terrie, Susannah, Sue and all Indigos, I wish you a Blessed Day with warm memories  of your special angels

Betty

Stephen'smom

[mikesmomrs]

Cindy  I agree I do believe that BI saved /is saving my life and I am enriched daily from all my connections here. Tanner is such a sweet young man so good to see his picture this AM.

Lorri:  Thinking of you and holding you close...I wish I could be there for the one year anniversary of Kourtney's Kloset, but you know that we will ALL be there in thought with you, as well as on Saturday, your sweet Kourt's birthday. 

Cindy:  I think that BI has saved us all...and we are glad to see your precious Tanner's face when you sign on.  Tanner and Brian are dancing and enjoying themselves, though we all understand that you and Colleen (and all of us here) want to see and feel and hear that happening...keeping you close to my heart. 

Bonnie:  Truly understanding your feelings...holding you close...praying Emily's birthday prep and celebration will help you to stay focused on the good memories you are creating for her...she is blessed. 

Betsy:  I can't imagine having much motivation after being told "You all suck."  I think perhaps the speaker needs to take some classes in motivational speaking. 

Betty:  I am glad that you enjoyed the video of Damon...he was in the last bursts of energy when I filmed it, as he had been playing with his two older brothers all day, thus the "thoughtful pause" in the middle of it, but that just made it that much sweeter.

Pam:  Please keep coming here, reading if that is all you can do.  We are all here for you...praying in thanks that you are keeping promises made to take care of yourself...praying too that you will find strength and motivation. 

Dee and Sherry:  I too loved to hear about the deer in your yards, as we used to see them at our old house, but haven't seen any since moving here...too populated, I guess.  Good memories though, that I am thankful for. We used to have a fox that lived in my "Lambs Ear" plants that drove me nuts because she would flatten them out onto the ground, but we still loved to see her when we did.  One day I was telling my neighbor who lived directly across the street about how the deer had been eating my Hostas and had taken the tops of some of my taller flowers, and she laughed and said "Carol, I watch them all the time; they have a veritable buffet as they come down from the back of your yard to the front and then cross over and run off into the woods.  They linger and munch for half an hour or so when no one is there."  But it was so nice to be living "in the woods" and we have many good memories from it.  We had a lot of dead branches one spring, that littered the ground and made it tough to walk through the woods behind and beside our house, so I got the kids (Mike, Cathi and Davis at the time), and Mike's two older boys who were only 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 at the time, to help us clean it out.  The little ones would pick up branches and put them on the tarp we had put out for gathering them.  After two times of dumping the tarp into the pickup, Mike, getting bored and tired, said "My mom, the only person in the world who cleans the woods!"  Good memories, all.

Trudi:  I am so sorry about the headline grabbing your heart and whipping it about...those triggers can be heart-piercing...I am sorry about the reporter, also...the tossing about continues.     Loved the pics, Jeya is such a doll, I know you had fun in "Jeya's world."  No, Mike was not very "fair" when he was little...had lighter hair than as a grown up, but it was brown and only lightened up during summer.  Mike favored my dad, who as an adult had jet black hair and a red beard, as well, like Mike.  Damon's other grandmother is blond, though, as are two of Sarah's brothers---one actually a redhead. 

Mike at 2:

Rosie, Mary, Amy, and all our Indigos...thinking of you and sending love...

love and peace to all...hope you have a good Wednesday.

Carol  mikesmomrs

[andrewsmother]

My dear Indigo friends...

I have no words for anyone...I'm so sorry, I am in a deep deep hole right now...I can barely hold it together at work without having to go to the bathroom and cry, my whole body is one big ache, I hurt physically but my emotional pain right now is almost more than I can bare.  Keep thinking of my poor poor baby and how his life was taken from him by an irresponsible drunk driver...I will never see him again, I will never hug him again, he will never have a family of his own, children, a wife.  I am so angry with God, and with life in general.  I had a feeling the tsunami was going to hit soon, I had about a week where I felt pretty well only to hit the bottom so so hard.  Is this normal?  these up and downs?  I feel like I'm losing it right now.

Thank you all for letting me vent! I need you guys right now...I can't remember feeling this bad for a while...

Rosie, Andrew's mom

[mikesmomrs]

Rosie:  "Is this normal?  these up and downs?  I feel like I'm losing it right now."  It is SO normal, so very normal...ups and downs...roller coaster ride...bumpy road...there have been so many descriptions, but they all mean the same thing...this journey we are on is unpredictable...just when we think we are doing okay, the bottom drops out...you are so new to this, Rosie, the pain is constant, and "doing okay" is likely a momentary thing right now for you, and that's okay...you haven't had time to process any of this...your heart has been assaulted, crushed, and it takes time for it to start up again...I wish I could sit with you, listen to you talk about your precious Andrew...  Hold on, Rosie, we are here for you, with you, understanding you...sending you prayers for strength to breathe, to move your mind to the next minute...sometimes we need to take one minute at a time as that's all we can focus on...

love and peace,  carol  mikesmomrs

[L074003]

I can remember oh so well falling into the deep dark pit of despair and not knowing if I could claw my way out.  A tsunami is a good analogy.  The best thing I can do for myself during these times is reach out to others as you are doing and hold my family close.  I sometimes actually had to remind myself to breath, brush my teeth, eat and take it one breath at a time.  At 6.5 years I fall into the pit but it isn't as deep and isn't as dark and I know from experience I can claw my way out.  I was once told that time doesn't change anything but what you do with the time that heals and I think I can understand that now.  When I am in the kind of funk I am in now I try to focus on what I can do to make a difference now.  I involve myself with things that would make Matthew happy.  This is a long difficult journey but reaching out makes it much less lonely and frightening.

Matthews Mama Mary

[mysonrich]

Just looking at pictures right now. Reading a werewolfe and vampire book.who knew?!

Rich at his friends house, Dan. Dan liked the horse picture i was throwing out, it had a nice frame once. So I'm pretty sure this is Dans house. Not sure how I got the picture.

Betsy,mysonRich

[lolynbo]

THANKS GUYS I NO IM NOT GOING THRU ANYTHING YOU ALL HAVENT....JUST FEB SNOWBALLS ME AND BIND SIK MAKES IT WORSE....

FIXIN TO RUN ERRANDS TO GET READY FOR TOM AT KOURTNEYS KLOSET AND THE CHRIO...(YES MARCIA I WENT)...

BE BLESSED MY FWENDS

[Guest]

Betsy - The person who said "you all suck" is the leader of the suckee's.  She/He must have very low self-esteem.  It's really a statement of their leadership abilities than it is of you and your co-workers.  But, you already knew that, didn't you.

[Guest]

Hi Indigo's;

I miss my laptop!  This computer is so slow!

Jeya is the cutest thing ever!  And, I love the video of your grandson, Carol!  Two cute little ones.

My headcold is making it impossible to remember very much and this slow computer makes it virtually impossible to open more than one window at a time.  I have read all your posts, however. 

I just want to say I love each of you and am continually asking for angels (with your own angels) to help buoy you up and give you comfort and just the right message or sign that will carry you through another day. 

I am going to retire to the sofa with some cold medicine to help me rest.  I am still at peace with God and His/Her creation.  I hope it holds up against the test of time.

Beth - you are in my thoughts!

Much love,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[andrewsmother]

Thank you Carol and Mary for your words of comfort.

Kathy I just want you to know you've been on my mind.  Every night I include BJ in my prayers.

and thanks to the rest of you that have always lifted my spirits.

Love

Rosie, Andrew's mom

[daveydow1]

Carol---I know how you feel about talking on the phone. My girlfriend

and I used to gab on the phone so much. But after Davey died, I seemed

to not want to talk much to anyone on the phone. It became a chore for me

also. At this point in time, I do talk a little bit more, but after awhile, I find

myself "drifting" and the attention is not there. You're right---we are changed

after the death of a beloved child, and I guess nothings going to alter that.

Loved your story of cleaning limbs from the woods, and Mike's comment....so

cute.  Peace to you, friend.

Cindy,....Good to see Tanner's smile.    Betsey----Thanks for the great pics.

Trudi----Jeya sure is a sweet little girl.

Betty----I agree about BI being a lifeline. When I came on, I never dreamed

I would be on this long......nearly 7 yrs....along with Dee. But, there is so much

understanding and wisdom that everyone shares in their own individual way.

If people think that we are "over it" at a certain point, they are wrong. This

road is rough and sometimes worse.   A life of ups & downs we can't control.

But, BI is always here, and that is a lifesaver.  Have a good night's rest.

Rosie---Sorry you are in that "dark place".  Peace & comfort.

              Davey&Lisasmom,   Sherry

[summergirl]

Trudi - I love the pics of Jeya and Muttley...so adorable. Yes, grandchildren allow us to just breathe clean fresh air...I am so very blessed to have Tavian, he at times can make me so very tired but at the end of the day it is a good tired. He is sitting next to me drawing in his new "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" book...he loves them, has all now and waiting for the new one to come out. He is an amazing reader at his age and I love that he loves it...

Rosie - Ups and downs, oh yes they go along with the sideways and backwards..I wish I could help you realize that the day will come when you will post here and be the one who is reaching out to a "new indigo" because you will be able to say all of the things we are all telling you now...at this time you are so fragile, so new on this journey of loss and I believe you are correct - you have not accepted the reality of your child being gone and it will take time my friend.....there are so many different aspects to this new life and right now you can only do one minute at a time. You will wear out many pairs of shoes as you walk each day moving forward and backwards but know that the sun will shine, the tears will flow always, the pain will lessen but never dissappear, you will laugh and you will be angry but you will find softness with time. We are here, always here. Bless you.

Pam - Thank you so much for keeping Bj in your prayers. I am glad to hear that your daughter is sober and yes I sure wish I could say the same but there is a reason for everything and just as I do not know why God took Jessica I do not know why my son has chosen the path he has.  I broke down today as he called and begged, pleaded that he really was leaving and just needed enough money to get the bus and a little extra for food on the trip back to Iowa, please give him just one more chance to prove himself and I opened the door back up and sent him the money, he promised to text me as soon as he got on the bus at 12:30.....no word from him yet. I cannot believe I did it again, how many more times am I going to help him kill himself?????? I am so angry with myself right now, why didn't I just tell him no like I have been doing for over a week, I have been so strong and now today I went backwards again. Why didn't I just tell him that I would buy the bus ticket for him ??? I swear sometimes I am so stupid, when am I going to learn????  AAARRRGGGHHH !!!

Lorrie - sure hope you feel better soon, thinking of you always.

Bonnie - thank you, I know how much you love your froggie blanket and having 2 will be even better.  Yes, pretending is something we have to do now and then isn't it, even after 4 years I still expect her to walk through the door and say hey mom, i'm home and I will wake up from this nightmare.  I miss her so much, the pain so intense some days and on others I can smile at the wonderful, beautiful 26 years I had her with me....

To all other indigo's,  I love you all, read all the posts, keep you in my prayers. Rest well my friends. Kathy

[arc4ever]

Hello all, been awhile I know.  I"m here hanging on.

I had to send a note and say that last night I drove 50 miles to watch the boys basketball team from Adam's school play in a tournament game.  On the way there (I went alone, I needed to be alone) I sent a txt to several friends and asked them to hold me up for the night cause it was gonna be hard seeing all the kids and attending a school event.  Got several nice responses and one (from a mom who lost both of her daughters in an auto accident) was perfect.  "You are NOT alone, Adam is with you".  She truly understands as do you all.  Anyway, one of the folks I txted was one of you here on BI, sorry the mind goes as  you know and I can't remember who it was.  The problem was, I sent it to the wrong number!  So I poured my heart out asking for help and sent it to a complete stranger.  Ooops!  They went a note "I think you have the wrong number" I just txted back "my apologies".  A little funny, who knows who got that message and they were probably like "what the heck is this all about?"

Here is a picture of me with Rachel and Abby (Adam's very best friends) and the best girls you would ever want your son to be friends with.

Love to all, I'll try not to stay away so long.

Terrie (Adam's Mom)

[arc4ever]

That didn't seem to work.  Sorry.

 

[ericasmom]

Rosie, I know the funk you are in, the absolute anger at this life being yours. I know, we all do, having been where you are we can only stand by and tell you that we are here. The anger is normal for what is an unnatural occurrence in a family's life. I wish I could carry you over this giant pit of loss, but none of us can, we can only form a bridge of caring and hope to help you ford the rough waters. I know that you have heard it a thousand times in a short while, but it is so, one day, maybe not for a couple of years, you will feel some repair happening in your life, you will feel the heartbeat in your chest adn you will know that Andrew is safe, sound, free.Until then, we are evidence of such things.

I can't remember who it was that either today or yesterday was down on themselves for having not lived up to the expectations you put on yourself. ENOUGH! I know that when we do that to ourselves we prevent any hope of light filtering into our spirits. You will do what feels right when it feels right, otherwise it may not be the right time. Our Kids cheer us on, our Kids know that just going through the days can be exhausting and sad, so please give yourself a bit of a break. Write down a list of what seems feesible for the next year as far as accomplishments,  and then narrow that list down. Pick one or two to start on and move with care and see if it turns out to be what you want to do.

Love yourselves please, your Baby does, and they need to see that you are going to do your best to be kind and good to yourselves.

love,

dee

PS carol, I loved the deer story. Sherry, the country is going to offer you so much in the way of nature. Funny about our deer, I am in a populated area, not the country at all, but bordering on the forest.

[aim630]

Rosie-I understand completely. The numbness is starting to wear off & the reality is hitting and I hate it. I am so angry right now, at God, at everyone, the hospital, the nurses, the doctors. The hospital sent us a $300,000 bill today and that is only for the first 3 wks she was there (3 months total). Really??? When we asked about an autopsy, they said we would have to pay $2000 cash right then. We were in such shock at the time. We opted not to have it done, and I think that is probably the right decision, but the nerve...it's almost like they didn't want us to do it because we might find something out.

I am mad at God for making us think she was going to recover after 3 months of illness, just to take her from a blood clot or something. I am mad at my boss, who said today she was surprised and worried about me because I was not at work last week because I was so upbeat and positive during Ashley's illness. Did she think I would really get over my daughter's death in 3 days? Its hard enough being there now, I'm only there because I don't get paid if I don't go to work. Of course I was positive & upbeat. I read somewhere if we really wanted God to grant us our prayers, we had to BELIEVE the prayers were going to work. I was afraid if I did not believe she would recover, then God would think I did not have strong enough faith. I did BELIEVE, and look what happened. I am glad she recovered when they thought she would not make it, because she did wake up & we got to see her smile again, but I PROMISED her she was fine the day before she died, because I really thought she was. Another boy was in the ICU the same time as her (he had been in an auto accident). They were both on a ventilator, both got pneumonia. Today I found out, he was transferred out of the hospital into a rehab facility. That is where Ashley should be now. It is bittersweet. I am glad he is recovering, I do not wish this pain on anyone, but why couldn't Ashley make it also???

Sorry, this is long. I know you all have your own horrible pain. Just had to get this out.

Will be thinking of all of you tonight, and you will be in my prayers (yes I still pray even though I am angry)

Kathy-you love your son and just want the best for him. If I was in your shoes, I would have done the same thing. You just don't want to ever give up on your children and want to help them however you can. I hope everything works out for the best.

[lolynbo]

I DONT NO IF THIS IS WHA TYOU ALL WERE TALKING ABOUT..BUT I TEXTED KOURTNEYS PHONE NOT TO LONG AFTER SHE DIED...AND SPILLED MY FEELINGS OUT...AND SOMEONE REPLYED "WHO IS THIS"....ALREADY SOMEONE ELSES #.....

BUT NOW THE OTHER DAY I TEXT HER AGAIN...AND NO RESPONSE SO IM SURE ITS GOING STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN (NO LONGER ANYONES #)......SO HARD FRIKIN LIFE ROLLS ON..

COME GET FREE PC OF CAKE TOM A KOURTNEYS KLOSET ...I NO YAL CANT MAKE IT AND I JUST NO YOUR WITH ME ON THIS DAY AND SAT....(HER BIRTHDAY)...

[summergirl]

Rosie, I understand the being mad at God for making you believe that Ashley was going to make it, however, I have to say that it wasn't God who made you believe it was the doctors and yourselves...we never ever think anything could happen to our child...it always happens to someone else...I too always promised Jessica that she would be ok..she had been in the hospital for what the doctors said was a "mild heart attack" but never found anything wrong with her...I always told her she was fine because that was what the doctor said, her heart specialist.  The anger you feel is totally understandable and the question WHY will be with you for a long time and no matter how much we try to find an answer it will not come until you meet your Ashley in Heaven one day...then you will understand. Someone once said "if God could come to you and tell you WHY he chose your child you still would not understand"....how true.  Your boss needs a slap down, but there is that "those who do not walk in our shoes" crap again. Many times words hurt so badly and the people who say them truely do not understand....easier to play stupid.    Yes, I know that we always want to do whatever we can for our children but there comes a time when we have to put a stop to the enabeling...this has been since Bj was 18 years old and will be 33 in March...money is not changing him just helps him buy more drugs, he needs to want to do it. I thank you for your sweet words but no one can make the chioces but me...having input from all here helps me but ultimately it comes down to my choice to stop our go bankrupt and keep putting Tavian, myself and Barry through this, it effects us all in a negative way.  Take care and breathe in and out. Kathy 

[mikesmum]

BI provided the venue - the strength, wisdom, support and being comes from within....

[ericasmom]

Sleep if you can Amy, Rosie, and All whose hearts are troubled tonight. I promise you that your hearts one day will not be as they feel now. I would not say this if I had not lived it myself. I do not believe that God made my Daughter die, or let her die or had any say so in her death. Her death came as a train struck her car at a broken light, not because God let the light be broken or God made Erica not hear a train...Human choice is involved...Someone chose not to change the fuse in the light, my Girl chose to not look both ways trusting the light was working, Amtrak chose to send trains through that and 4 more intersections in town going full speed even though they were aware of the broken light for 11 months. These were human gaps in doing one's best, not Gods. My thought then is that God created a place called Heaven for souls to travel and live forever in undying love and joy. A simplistic view, but hey, after so much heartache and loss, simplistic feels pretty good.

Kath, next call you can send the money to the bus company or the shelter or the therapist, and you can tell BJ this, but that you cannot and will not send him money any more. YOu will support him through money to those places that he intends to better his life throrugh, otherwise, you will not send any money anywhere.

You know what Kathy, even writing it is hard to do, so I know saying it adn doing it are wickedly hard. Bless you as you try to fortify yourself for the possibility of another call for more.

Love,

dee

[ericasmom]

Sleep if you can Amy, Rosie, and All whose hearts are troubled tonight. I promise you that your hearts one day will not be as they feel now. I would not say this if I had not lived it myself. I do not believe that God made my Daughter die, or let her die or had any say so in her death. Her death came as a train struck her car at a broken light, not because God let the light be broken or God made Erica not hear a train...Human choice is involved...Someone chose not to change the fuse in the light, my Girl chose to not look both ways trusting the light was working, Amtrak chose to send trains through that and 4 more intersections in town going full speed even though they were aware of the broken light for 11 months. These were human gaps in doing one's best, not Gods. My thought then is that God created a place called Heaven for souls to travel and live forever in undying love and joy. A simplistic view, but hey, after so much heartache and loss, simplistic feels pretty good.

Kath, next call you can send the money to the bus company or the shelter or the therapist, and you can tell BJ this, but that you cannot and will not send him money any more. YOu will support him through money to those places that he intends to better his life throrugh, otherwise, you will not send any money anywhere.

You know what Kathy, even writing it is hard to do, so I know saying it adn doing it are wickedly hard. Bless you as you try to fortify yourself for the possibility of another call for more.

Love,

dee

[mikesmomrs]

Hello indigos:

Sometimes it has been mentioned here that all of us have lost our children in different ways...some in terrible accidents, and some through illness.  Accidents that stopped our heart when we heard the phone ringing or the knock on the door at 3 am...illness that either suddenly, unexpectedly and heartbreakingly ended in our beloved child's death, or illness that began with the knowing of the inevitable from the outset, followed by the living of the days we have left, with a catch in our heart and feeling as though we were holding our breath all the time, afraid to exhale.  It has also been said, by those from both lanes of this rocky, bumpy road that they didn't know which they would have preferred...not knowing or knowing---the terrible, tragic accident, sudden fatal illness, or the right up front "terminal" diagnosis that was so blatant, in black and white, unchangeable, unacceptable, and yet had to be lived with, until the day came when we had to say goodbye. 

When Mike was diagnosed with brain cancer, we knew within 3 weeks of his diagnosis that it was going to end with his death.  I have sometimes wondered how it would have been if they had told us he was going to be okay; that he would "make it," and then he didn't.  I will never know.  I only know what actually happened...they told us he had brain cancer, and then, three weeks later, broke our hearts forever by telling us that it was "fatal."  Possibly up to two years, could be as soon as one year.  No cure.  No miracle.  Not now.  So "terminal cancer" was the diagnosis.  Somehow, disbelief and shock was replaced with action...coming to grips with this "fact," stumbling our way through the "paliative treatment" and the heartbreak of the next 17 months, being led by, who else, our beautiful son, whose attitude always was "what is, is" and who never believed in dwelling on the negative.  He wrote in his journal "I always try to look for the positive in a situation...there usually always is something."  We followed his lead.  We took each day as it came; tried to make the best of it; loved him with all our being; stored up new memories to blend with the old, with a firm lock on our heart so none of them would slip away.  Had it been a case of "we might be able to cure this, " or, "it's not that bad; he will be okay" and then they couldn't, and he wasn't, how would our lives have been different?  I don't know how I/we would have handled it, but likely it would have been much like it has been, each of us stumbling through our "new lives" one breath at a time, then one day at a time...one memory at a time, with someone we love so much missing from our lives, but living in our hearts until we meet again.  I feel such compassion and sorrow for those of you who lived through the hope and waiting, prayed for healing, and not having that happen.  Tears come as I feel your pain and heartache.

Of Mike's two theories mentioned above, I was always able to follow Mike's lead with his proclamation of "what is, is"; I have not yet been able to find anything positive about the "terminal cancer" that ended with his leaving us...well, I guess I could say I have...I don't have to worry any longer about something terrible happening to him, and I know that he is forever safe, healthy, and happy.  I know that Mike would be proud of me for finding that "something positive." 

I'm sorry for the rambling...it's just thoughts that have been wandering through my mind this evening, and I felt a need to write about it.

love and peace,  carol  mikesmomrs

PS:  Dee:  "I do not believe that God made my Daughter die, or let her die or had any say so in her death."  I totally agree with this...I feel the same about Mike's illness.  I think it was Marcia who said one time (and perhaps you) that we are given a certain number of days on this earth and when they are done, they are done.  I also believe that when people die they are gone before they feel any pain from the action/method of their death.  I have to believe this...in order to breathe and give my heart motivation to beat. 

[mikesmum]

 being led by, who else, our beautiful son, whose attitude always was "what is, is" and who never believed in dwelling on the negative.  He wrote in his journal "I always try to look for the positive in a situation...there usually always is something."  We followed his lead.

It is so hard to find the positive in day to day life, yet if I had to find something 'positive' about being on this journey it would be the wisdom that comes from those who are travelling here, however long their journey maybe. 

We comehere as individuals. We are led here by our children - something I feel with all my heart.

All whose hearts are troubled tonight. I promise you that your hearts one day will not be as they feel now. I would not say this if I had not lived it myself.

When many are in the 'abyss', there is  a strength that reachs  from these pages to keep us afloat:   Keeps us taking that next breath, next step - if you like bringing us to a softer place. 

Its not the how, it might be the why, but it is that they died that brings us here.

 

[Guest]

Carol - you are quite the writer, yourself.  Beautiful words of wisdom and comfort.

Rosie and Amy - I totally get the anger towards God.  My opinion differs from others in that I do believe God "did" this.  Maybe not overtly.  But, He sure didn't stop it, and He has the power to do so if He chose to.

The difference between "then" and "now" is I'm not angry at Him over it any more.  Or, at least I'm not angry right now. 

Stephanie had only been gone for three days when I demanded God bring her back to me RIGHT NOW.  The tears streamed down my cheeks as the whispered response cut to the core "She was never yours". 

I can't tell you how many times I tried to prepare myself for the news she had died.  Like BJ, Stephanie was heavily involved in drugs and the horrible lifestyle that went with it.  I've lost count of how many rehabs she entered and never completed.  She lost her kids and everything dear to her in the process.  Her exhusband took her children to live with him and his new girlfriend.  We didn't know where they were for over a year.

That gave Stephanie an added excuse to get high.  Until, finally, she had had enough.  Finally, she entered an eight month treatment program.  Four months into that we were notified by the state that her children had been found, but they were extremely abused, both physically and sexually, by the ex's girlfriend.

Stephanie wanted to leave treatment right then, but her getting her kids back depended on her completion, so she stayed.  Several states away from us, but she did get to talk to her children everyday on the phone.  The state allowed my husband and me to be the kids foster parents.

Stephanie arrived home on June 25th, having completed rehab successfully.  I had my daughter back.  The kids had their mommy back.  She was doing so well.  She was healthy and full of joy.  On fire for Jesus.  I like Jesus and all....but, I keep my concept of God very simple, referring to Him as my Creator.  I didn't care about it, though, because my daughter was alive and free for the first time since she was 13. 

I watched in awe as people's burden would lighten when she'd enter a room.  Up until the day she got home, I saw Child Services as my enemy.  Because of what had happened to my grandchildren and all the ignored complaints and reports that came from others who saw the condition my grandchildren were living in.  But, Stephanie just loved them.  They fell in love with her. 

"You're okay, Mom".  She'd smile at me when I'd get on a rant about this or that.  That's all she'd say and I'd calm down.

Things were good.  She was doing well.  She was going to get her kids back.  The kids wanted her back.  Little 6 yr old Jasmine ran away from my house and walked six blocks and into a strangers house looking for her mommy the first day she got to see Stephanie.  The visit was over.  it was time to leave.  As soon as we got home and I began dinner, she just slipped out the back door and was going to go live with her mommy.  911 was called.  The whole neighborhood was looking for her.  She was gone a total of aabout 24 minutes.  And, returned safe and sound.

Two days later, Mariah called 911 on me because I wouldn't let her call her mommy again.  She had already called her several times that morning and I needed to vacuum.  She went into the laundry room and called the police.

Precious memories.

Almost six weeks to the day that those babies got to see their mommy for the first time in almost two years, their mommy was dead.

They had been through unimaginable horror for over a year.  They were told their mommy didn't want them, that they were worthless, that nobody loved them.  The sexual and physical abuse was also horrific.

Do I hold God responsible?  Absolutely!  God either is or He isn't.  He's either everything or He's nothing.  He's either in charge or He's not.

"If you have not completed what God sent you here to do, He will interfer with your death.  If you have completed what He sent you here to do, nothing can keep you here."

I totally understand being mad at God.  I am not saying God made Tina abuse my grandkids, or didn't allow the light to be changed in the crossing for the train or gave anyone cancer..........what I'm saying is He didn't stop it.  He didn't cure it.  He allowed it to happen.  Maybe that's the samae thing everyone else is saying.  But, I do believe He can and does intervene many, many times.

Stephanie should have been dead a long time ago with all she has been through, but God spared her.  He spared her until she was clean and sober and on good terms with me and back with her children.  It seems cruel from one hand, and so sweet from the other.

Maybe it's about consequences.  But, God even can and does often intervene in consequences.  And, then there's the one He doesn't.  Why?  Because He's mean?  Because it's a cruel joke?  I think no one leaves here one minute before their supposed to and God will often take advantage of their parting to force His children into action.

I believe their spirits are taken before they suffer pain.  But, that is obviously not true for people dying of cancer.  For reasons we don't know they suffer.  But, there is a reason.  What I do believe is they are not suffering now.  They are free now.  And, we are here to continue to suffer.............only, I believe God can and will provide a way through this terrible suffering for us.

Yes.  I blame God.  Before it was with a glare in my eye and my middle finger waving at the sky.  Today it is with a smile on my face and admiration in my heart.

Oh.  But, I've walked this road before with God.  And, one thing I know about Him is He never comes down and asks my opinion before he throws me a curve ball.  He has always just asked me to trust Him.

Sorry this is so long.   God is all powerful.  God is all loving.  God is all knowing.  There is a reason.  We grieve for a season, but then we will rejoice.  Our children are not dead.

Next time I'm in a funk, feel free to send this back to me. 

Much love,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom/ God's creation

[mysonrich]

MaryAnn, it's my turn. 15- 24 inches with blizzard conditions. I just checked out back and Santa has not delivered my Subaru yet.

Carol, your words bring forth something Rich said to me many years ago but really, not that many years ago. Sometimes I want to share but other times I feel I can't. Like Bonnie commented on "my heart tree". The heart has a hole in it . Thought and memories form and never make it to the spoken word because I am left with the same feeling I had when he spoke them and that memory opens to a whole new set of questions. Marcia told us at one time that Bethany had a "feeling" that she may not live long. Maybe Bethany didn’t say the words out-loud but Marcia must have tuned in to the essence of her girl and distinctly felt that vibe, for lack of a better word. Keep in mind the hole in my heart.

Oh boy. Rich was probably 15 years old at the time. I remember where I was standing, not exactly what I was doing. Standing right next to the wall oven, my back to him as he walked into the kitchen. He was a late sleeper and had just stated his day. He came over to me and said, " Mom, I don't think I'm going to live very long. I don't think I will live past ? " I have blocked that out. My reaction , frustration, shock. How could my son be saying such a thing to me. I tried to reassure him that he would live a long life. He seemed ok with that. So what posses our children to say such things? Does someone visit them in their dreams and pass this along? did his body tell him something that doctors never picked up on? should I hate the doctor his dad took him to after Richs dad had his heart attack because he never found anything that may have saved my sons life? And, could his life be saved and at what cost to Rich?

See, circles. I run in circles.

Betsy, mysonRich

　

　

[hotsauce]

good morning to everyone here at BI,

not much to say, but i do know i can't wait for spring.

more snow on the way. 

i hope everyone has a safe and good day. 

 

mary ann

BRIAN"S momdukes

[heartbeataway]

Kourtney!

I'm saying her name and thinking of you & yours Lorri

Susannah,  how do we know what we need to do to finish, to find our purpose? I keep asking that question.........

Dee, I actually had folks ask me how I could continue believing and not be angry with God.  I never thought about blaming God!  I consider myself more a spiritual person than a religious person, maybe that's it. I know without a shadow of doubt that our Jay's spirit is alive and well.

Betsey, I'll share my Outback with you. I'm driving my second and love it. It's not a fancy car but it's my favorite!  I had forgotten that you lost your Rich to heart disease also. I don't think there is any understanding. Marcia and Kathy are just as bewildered as we are .  Sometimes I think they're hearts were just so full of good, they were overwhelmed .....

[align=left]We didn't get the expected snow last night. It's predicted to hit us tonight.

 I need to do some last minute shopping today to get last minute things for Emily's room. She had a Mom meeting yesterday and she's always agitated when it's over. This is a child who understands that if she doesn't stand her ground and not allow the abuse, her life will never be fulfilled. I think she is capable of being the change her family needs. I just hope they open their hearts and be willing to accept the change that needs to happen. I know that she will continue to be part of our life. And feel grateful for the opportunity to have made a difference in her young life.

Thank you universe for showing us that good things can happen ..... even when your spirit hurts with the grief of loss.

Wishing you sunshine on the journey,

Bonnie, Jay's Mom

[/align][align=left]

[/align]

[hotrod]

duplicate post sorry

[hotrod]

[user=19401]heartbeataway[/user] wrote:

Thank you universe for showing us that good things can happen ..... even when your spirit hurts with the grief of loss.

Wishing you sunshine on the journey,

Bonnie, Jay's Mom

[align=left]

[/align]

Dear Bonnie  Thank you so much for such an inspirational posting.  You are definately a force for good in this young girls life.  She is so fortunate.

Hi Indigos

 

Amy, Rosie, Kim I am so sorry that you are in this very dark lonely place.  I found coming here and just sitting and reading helped more than anything.  Praying for your peace.

 

Carol and Dee and Claudia  beautiful warm thoughts    I too believed that Stephen would recover and was completely overwhelmed when I found him passed away, smiling in his sleep. 

 

All this discussion about our beliefs is certainly thought provoking.  I do believe that God works in mysterious ways and that I will never " Fully Understand" the depth of His actions. All that is required of me is to know that He is Love and that  all our Angels are safe in a beautiful place.   Stephen and all our angels were a beautiful gift from God. I was responsible to love him and guide him.  I am grateful I was able to do just that.  

 

I need to come here to all my Indigos family and find direction for the remaining days without him. I am so very grateful to all of you. for being here.

 

Thanks Bonnie for indicting the direction you have taken with your Foster Child.   I am not that brave but I am volunteering at a Homeless shelter  and school and feel as if I am doing something I would never have done before I lost Stephen.

 

Trudie  I agree this site is the place where we can all learn to reach inside, and discover the strength, compassion, and  love of our God that lives within each of us.

 

Betsy I understand the circle that our minds go in.  I try to just stay focused on this day and the warm memories of days gone by.  I loved the new picture of Rich and understand why his friend like the horse picture.

 

Lorrie and Susannah  Please take good care of yourselves  This cold hangs around for a long time.

 

Carol I forgot to mention I loved Mike's sense of humor when I laughed that "His Mom was the only one who

cleaned the woods"

 

Mary Ann I know more cold and snow but just remember that spring is coming.  I am glad to see you each morning.

 

Sherry:  I agree no matter the length of time on this journey, there are days when the loss is profound.

 

Leah  I hope that tooth has held up  Only a few more day.!!! 

Lynn  Found any mor puzzles lately

 

Kathy, Terrie, Sue, Beth, Dan Greg, Leah,Colleen and all Indigos please take good care of yourselves

 

Betty

Stephen'smom

 

 

 

[Guest]

I don't mean to give the impression that my opinions are right and others opinions are wrong.  It's just my experience.

Two weeks ago I was extremely angry with God.  Because I do believe in God, and rely on Him, it was imperative that I find peace with Him.  Through what I believe to be divine intervention, I found that peace. 

My whole purpose in sharing is perhaps my experience can help or bring some semblence of comfort. 

My purpose seems to be taking care of Stephanie's children.  Providing a safe, loving environment for them to grow in.  Today, more specifically, my purpose seems to be scrubbing the bathrooms, which I did and doing the laundry, which I'm doing.

I believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience.  Not the other way around.  And as painful as it is, at times, I believe we are all here to grow spiritually.  I view this life as a school of sorts.  I have read that the more difficult our life experience, the greater chance we have at spiritual advancement.

If what I believe is true, then I also believe I was an idiot!  LOL 

My beliefs are based solely on my experience and some of it pure assumption.  But, they carry me forward.  When I finally stand before my Creator, I might just find out I was full of the proverbial dung.

I love you all! 

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Guest]

Betty - We posted at the same time.

You put it so well and so simply stated.  God is love and our children are in a safe place.

Thank you!

Susannah

[ericasmom]

Susannah, I am unsure of how I feel about the intervening thing. I just can't believe that wars are waged and last for centuries, hurricaines and tsunamis, and earthquakes claim thousands of lives and God could see fit to intervene but does not? I don't get that part. I don't think I have ever believed that piece, but I sure don't mind listening to the argument toward that belief. I do like the saying that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, I heard that on a TV show a few years ago, don't remember who it was that coined that one. I believe that is so. We are here learning what it is we need to know for the NEXT PLACE.

Hang tight all of those in the newest snowbelt. We had a nice snowfall just 2 inches, and now for the first time in 3 days, THE SUN! So nice to see. And this morning before the sun, the midnight blue sky with puffy white clouds against the darkness. The sky looked like a Magritte' painting. Loved it.

My Son called from Salt Lake City last night, he arrived yesterday. I was so glad to hear him sounding well. That is a long drive to do by oneself, but he is on a mission and loves to drive, so this works. Today he is probably snowboarding at Brighton or one of the other area slopes. My boy, taking his memories down mountains that he once traversed with his Sister and his Daddy.

Bonnie, I was never angry with God either, it just isn't something I have ever felt.

so glad your Em is good.

Today is George Harrison's(my fav Beatle) birthday. George died from cancer some years ago, but boy did he face his diagnosis with grace, much like your Children did that knew ahead of time that they were going to be leaving soon. Listen to his last album and let the tears and smiles prevail. He being quite spirit filled, sang of his journey. The album is called, BRAINWASHED.

Love each of you,

dee

[lostwoher]

 Hello troops. Im here. Not much to contribute but Im reading and feeling every hurt and happiness with you.

As a matter of fact Betty, I do have another puzzle to be started but I havent had much time nor energy to even look at it. Between work and dealing with this cold cold cold weather I have been zapped. Kinda weird how I have lived in central IL most of my life and I still cant deal with the winters. I just came down with a second head cold for this season after going for several years without one now I have 2. Today is my day off so Im just sitting around the apt and browsing the net.

My younger sis texted me today to let me know my nephew has been diagnosed with scoliosis. Looks like he may be in for some rough roads ahead. He ( Cory ) was the one family member who was close to Kayla and had a difficult time with her death. My heart breaks for him. He is 18 and still in highschool.

Making a trip to Chicago next wknd. Randy's daughter is flying in and will be here for about 6 weeks. Should be interesting Main thing she wants to do is eat a Chicago Dog. It will be my first as well.

I gotta admit that I still have anger issues with the guy upstairs. I just cant seem to understand how he can get all the praises when things go right but none of the blame for the downfalls. It isnt as bad as the beginning but the thought is there daily. I thank him when I feel its appropriate but thats about it. Just my 2 cents.

Time for a lil nap since I was up before Mr Sun this morning. Woke myself from snoring lol.

Have a great day.

Lynn

[ericasmom]

Lynn, where are you headed in Chicago, can I help iwth dirctions or places to eat? where will you be staying?

dee

[4everjoeysmom]

I am going to put in my 2 cents about anger, God, blame and the like...only for a different perspective into how I have come to terms with everything...

If there is a God, (which I do believe very much), then I have to consider how He sees things--which is totally different from what my natural limited way of seeing things is. What I know of the God I believe is that He is All Knowing & Seeing (Omniscient), He is Everywhere All the Time (Omnipresent), and All Powerful and in Control (Omnipotent). This means nothing escapes His vision, grasp, or control. Do I think He causes terrible things? Most often I believe He merely allows things. But why the bad things? Because the world is not the way God made it--not as it once was. And people are not obedient to Him by nature. (The whole fallen world/sin factor.) So it's not that God is destroying Earth and life and resources. It's the nature of humanity that has done these things over many generations, and now there is consequential fallout, like disease, faulty equipment and accidents, murder, lust, greed, etc. But I still believe in modern day miracles as well. And I do believe in the power of prayer. But God's answers may not come as I expect, especially if I cannot see things how He might.

Way deeper than all of that is that God created the Heavens AND the Earth. SO, that must mean He sees things way more multidimensional than we have the capacity to as we view things only from Earthly perspective. Heavens and Earth encompass one Kingdom--God's Kingdom. So if I can get to this understanding, then it brings me to knowing that I am on this portion of the Kingdom and Joey is on another that is separated by time and space...no time counted there, as it's already eternal--and one day I believe the Earth will be fully renewed and be eternal as well...(but thats another theological discussion. For now I want to stick to the One Kingdom concept.)

OK...so One Kingdom, separated parts by space and time. I'm here. He (Joey) is there. Was Joey's time here complete? On Earth: Yes! In the Kingdom: NO! His life continues. If I believe the teachings of Christ, then I am to believe that mortal death is necessary--as a consequence of man's history, but eternal life exists and is a promise and hope I should cling to--so that I don't get trapped into believing that "this life here and all I see is all there is". I also must look at a life's purpose to have Kingdom meaning--not only Earthly meaning. SO, what does this mean in the big picture for me? Well, it means that I certainly would have appreciated very much if God would have allowed Joey to live a longer life on Earth, preferably to outlive me. But I equally appreciate, if not more, that mortal death here for Joey was not Kingdom death overall. What does Christ's Resurrection mean to me?? It means that Joey was resurrected because of Christ's. He is fully man, perfected in eternal body, according to Jesus' teaching, and still living in God's Kingdom, separated by me in space and time only because of the mortality issue--Joey is alive and well where my still mortal eyes cannot see, but still connected in One Kingdom. THAT brings me great comfort, because that is my destiny too. I just don't know when. But I know I must still have purpose on this portion of One Kingdom to still be here. Does it mean Joey's purpose was less because he has been taken to the eternal side? No way!! Actually, if I believe all of Christ's teachings, Joey is a very lucky guy to not have to endure the consequential fallout in the earthly portion of One Kingdom. Sure there are wonderful things to celebrate in the Earthly Kingdom, but there is a lot of grief that goes with it as well.

So, with all of this "under my belt", so to speak, when I hear of prayers for healing not being answered, I always wonder....maybe it was answered. Just not in a way I can see or would expect. It depends on what God was seeing at the time. Was the "healing" needed to affect more the physical or the spiritual body? Did God see something more horrific in my child's Earthly future, that He spared him the suffering and/or shame of it? Was my child's mortal death a part of serving some greater One Kingdom purpose? I must remember that his purpose was/is far greater than just being my son. That realization hurts, because it shows me that he was really never mine to own. I was merely the blessed vehicle for another child of God with a Kingdom Purpose far greater/bigger/deeper than my eyes or heart can see. So for now I have to trust a God who can see more than I, and who promises that my heartbreak is part of mortality, but will not be a part of me forever, as I move toward and into the eternal portion of One Kingdom. It's all connected. That keeps me connected....and on a path to greater understanding and healing.

For those who don't share my view, no offense given, please don't take offense. This is merely a different perspective into coping with death and what I think God's role in that is...

Love and Hugs from one who suffers with you...xoxoxo

~Claudia, (4EverJoeysMom)

[Guest]

I am enjoying this conversation.  I hope it is received as such, just a conversation of opinions and experiences.  I hope I am not coming across as argumentative.  My biggest fear in sharing so openly is you will all reject me!  I'm so needy.  Please feel free to tell me you still love and accept me.  LOL  Even after some really profound experiences, I still care what others think!

Several springs ago, I was driving home from Iowa.  I was on the last stretch of my trip with about two hours to go.  I went through Gillette, a town I had traveled through many times.  However, this time I took a wrong turn that took me about 15 minutes out of my way.  I was frustrated with myself and becoming impatient.

I was in awe when I realized if I had not missed my turn, I would have ended up in Wright Wyoming exactly at the same time the Tornado touched down.  Traffic was stopped as the hard rains continued to pelt the town that had already been ripped apart.  We were led through the town to get back on the highway, so we would not be put in harms way of the oil tanker that had blown over. 

As I drove through the town and witnessed the wide spread disaster I was filled with gratitude that God had "spared" me by making me take a wrong turn.  The elementary school looked as if a bomb had gone off.  The small town is mostly an "oil" town and the majority of the homes are mobile homes that did not withstand the brutal beating the tornado inflicted.

I watched as people ran toward each other, helping...rescuing....crying.  I was humbled when the thought struck me, "If God was with me, does it mean He was not with them?"  I knew the answer instantly.  I was/am no better than any of the people who were injured or lost their homes that day. 

Just like I believe I was directed to take a wrong turn, I believe God could have easily put his hand under the tornado or even commanded it to go elsewhere.  But, He didn't. 

That is my only real life experience.  The other experience I have occurred last week when I might have heard the voice of God or just a hallucination.  Whether insanity or the voice of God, I feel better, so I'm keeping it.  "What you see as a tragedy is not a tragedy."  and "You cannot understand my ways".  And, "My children shine the brightest for one another when you need each other.  I am pleased when my children reach out to the other in love and compassion.  How soon my children forget to love and serve when all is well.  When my children perceive all is well...all is not well in their spirit.  Be not afraid of the lessons.  Embrace them.  Thank me for them.  And, always remember, you are never alone.  Never.  Never.  Never."  and  "You grieve what you do not understand.  You think your daughter was YOUR daughter.  She was and is always MY daughter.  Your body was used as a vehicle for her spirit to enter the physical plain, but she is not yours.  No more than your vehicle belongs to the road you drive on, the bridges you cross, the tunnels you enter.  She is busy doing my will, now, and you grieve because she is about a higher plan.  A higher business.  You grieve because you can't see her or hear her.  When you should grieve because you can't see me or hear me and I am with you."

Dee - I believe Melanie Beatty was the one who first voiced we are spiritual beings having a human experience in her book "Embraced by the Light" about her near death experience. 

Again....it's all open to conversation.  these are just my own opinions.  I have no facts to base it on.

Love you all!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Guest]

I love the way you signed your post, Claudia.  One who suffers with you.  How true. 

I guess the bottom line is we are all here trying to get through a horrendous loss by helping each other.

It's snowing here.  Last night's news said all your easterners are supposed to get it again. 

Dan and Greg - thinking of you both and hoping you're well.

Beth - still thinking of you.

Lorri - Thinking of you and yours today as Kourtney's closet "celebrates" and mourns Kourtney's Closet and her birthday. 

Love you all!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[4everjoeysmom]

Susannah, I LOVE and ACCEPT YOU!!! I love your God story... Sharing is good. No one is force feeding anyone, and people always have the option to skip over posts they find distasteful.

Your tornado story made me think of one time when Joey was driving a combine tractor through a small town on the way to the grain elevator when a tornado went through. I grew up in Central Illinois, which is commonly referred to as tornado alley by our local folks. Anyway, the tornado didn't touch ground, but was close enough to do some damage, like tearing metal from roofs of warehouses and such. The winds were so strong that it actually picked up Joey's combine and turned it 180 degrees around in the road before setting back down. He freaked and hit the floor. Good thing he did, because part of a metal roof and beam flew into his driver-side window. We would have never believed his story had there not been witnesses... mostly because he had a knack for embellishing an already-good story. LOL! Sure do miss those...

[rlolheiser]

Carol, such a cutie, Mike's Damon...  I wish my computer would work and let me see the video.  I close my eyes and imagine, such a joy children are.

Amy I hope you continue to hold up and please don't dispair, there will be down times, it happens, that is why we are here to help each other.

Cindy, you say you never have anything to add, only your selfish self.. so untrue you share your Tanner with us, you share your feelings, and that is very important

Pam thank you for your thoughts of JaBoa, you are strong, and I am sorry that you have to go through life with such sadness, your strength to do what you need will come when your ready, right now just getting through the days is job enough

Trudi, wow.. Jeya is a sweetie, I loved your pictures-- I agree with you that our angels brought us to this site.  I think I would have been a total nut case by now instead of just half :-)

Rosie, I hope you find some peace through your troubled times, the ups and downs are all to familiar, how I wish there was something to make more ups, but always feel free to vent, God knows I do.

Lorri, my thoughts are with you, I agree that there are months, that hurt more than others.... I still have my JaBoa on my email and chat.. everyonce in awhile I chat with her..  I never get anything back, but I will never take her off the account.  I worry sometime that it will disappear, but I hope my writing to her keeps it active enough to keep working.  If I don't make it back online saturday... I am wishing [glow=aqua]Kourtney[/glow] the most beautiful of angel birthdays.. and may you feel closer than ever to her.. (hugs)

Sussannah, I hear you about the computer, my relic here doesn't do anything I want it too, but I am thankful it lets me get online and come here.

Kathy, my heart goes with you, your not stupid, your a mom, who loves your son, and wants to believe in him... I pray that you gain strength.

Terrie, I am glad you found the ability to attend the basketball game with help of your freinds and Adam.....  wrong numbers happen when we are upset, I remember when I found out my 1st husband wanted a divorce, I called my sister.. spilled my guts and pain out.. and some poor guy and 3am told me sorry wrong number.  After I said it though it helped.. just to get out the frustration

Betsy, I will always wonder how I children knew certain things.. and I will probably always ask questions of could I have changed it.  Deep down I don't think I could, but I do have fleeting dreams that if I had taken a different way.. things might have been different...but I guess that is only the wishes in me

Betty, the tooth is acting up, and I feel it again, I am afraid how bad it will be by Saturday.  I am afraid, and want to cancel (but won't)  I gotta travel early in the morning and am not one that drives in the dark well, and I don't know the town well in the first place.. so keep me in mind.. I am a chicken:-)  As for the conversation about God.. I still get mad and frustrated with him..  still love him..  Our angels were a beautiful gift yes..

Dee, I am glad your son made it safely on his trip and I hope he has a wonderful time.

Claudia, your post reminds me of the song "I thank God for unanswerd prayer" I don't remember who sang it..  but so much is true.. we don't understand it at the time.. but sometime in the future...  I just wish the future was here sooner sometimes.. I'm impatient

I dont' know if I will be in for awhile, I am going to leave in the middle of the night tomorrow, I have lots to do to prepare.  My husband is nervous having to take care of mom for awhile.  I will have it all set up for him, and give her a bath when I get home.  This tooth has gotta get taken care of..  I am frightened, I know that is dumb, I just hate driving in the dark especially alone where i am not familiar... ( I know I said this already, but I am nervous) Thank all of you for your prayers.. your thoughts.. your love..  I return the same to all of you!

Leah/JaBoa's grandma

 

[hotrod]

[user=39355]msnher[/user] wrote:

I am enjoying this conversation.  I hope it is received as such, just a conversation of opinions and experiences.  I hope I am not coming across as argumentative.  My biggest fear in sharing so openly is you will all reject me!  I'm so needy.  Please feel free to tell me you still love and accept me.  LOL  Even after some really profound experiences, I still care what others think!

SUSANNAH I LOVE YOU

SUSANNAH AND CLAUDIA IN SHARING YOUR SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES I WAS REMINDED OF THE MOST POWERFUL ONE THAT TOUCHED MY LIFE. 

 

I WORKED AT THE WTC FOR MANY YEARS.  THE NIGHT BEFORE THE TOWERS CAME DOWN, STEPHEN CALLED ME AND SAID HE HAD A TERRIBLE FEELING THAT I WAS GOING TO BE BADLY HURT AND THAT HE WANTED ME TO STAY AT HIS HOME FOR A FEW DAYS. 

 

NORMALLY I WOULD HAVE DISMISSED HIS ANXIETY AND WENT TO WORK.

 

  THIS TIME I HEARD HIM , CALLED THE OFFICE  LEFT WORD ON MY BOSSES ANSWERING MACHINE THAT I WS TAKING A VACATION DAY AND WENT TO STEPHENS HOUSE IN NJ

 

HE WAS SO HAPPY AND WENT TO WORK. IN THE CITY.   THIAT MORNING HE CALLED ALL UPSET WHEN HE HEARD OF THE TOWERS.  10 PEOPLE FROM MY COMPANY WERE KILLED AND I WAS SAFE. I OFTEN WONDER WHY I WAS CHOSEN TO STAY BEHIND AND HE WAS CHOSEN TO GO.  NOT MY CALL HE HAD FINISHED HIS JOURNEY-I HAD NOT

 

SUSANNAH ALTHOUGH I HAVE NEVER HEARD GOD SPEAK TO ME  I  DO BELIEVE WITHIN THE DEPTHS OF MY BEING THAT WHAT YOU HEARD SPOKEN TO YOU LAST WEEK IS/ WAS AN UNDERLYING TENANT OF MY FAITH EXPERIENCE. FOR MANY YEARS.

 

THANKS FOR THE TOPIC

BETTY

STEPHEN'SMOM 

 

 

[Guest]

Leah - I wish I was there to go to the dentist with you.  Leaving in the middle of the night?  Geeze.  I will keep you in my prayers.

Claudia - Thanks for feeding my need for approval!   I kept thinking "what will I do if they all hate me now?  I've already bought my plane ticket and reserved my room.  I'll just go and pretend I'm someone different."  :shock:  Me and Ehor (Winnie the pooh's friend)

My brain.  Not a safe place for me to be. 

Signing off for a nap.........

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[lostwoher]

 Leah, I sure wish I could go with you to the dentist. Thinking its time for a root canal. Lots of cold sensitivity to one tooth and its worse with this cold. Im sure the 2 are connected. Be safe on your travel. Im sure all will be fine and you will be feeling better soon.

Dee, I do not know any details yet except that her flight arrives 8am Sunday. Only thing planned is the Chicago Dog and to Sears Tower. Not looking forward to that due to me having a huge fear of heights. I havent been inside there since i was in 6th grade which was many many many years ago lol. Im one who cant watch Mt Dew commercials or any of those to do with heights without holding onto something :?. I will probably ask for your assistance soon tho.

Dear sweet sweet Claudia, you have said the magic words. I think that may have been exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you for sharing your views. It definately brought me to tears ( happy tears) and I had to reread it a few times but it does make alot of sence to me. I have never been taught much in that area but have my own idea so I really appreciate that you shared it. THANK YOU! Im feeling a bit better now.

Susannah, I LOVE YOU! Please dont fear rejection. Im not here to judge anyone. I appreciate your openness as much as the next person.

Its been nice staying home and not having to do a darn thing today. I never even got dressed Will shower soon so we can go curtain shopping when Randy gets home. We are going to freshen up the extra bdrm for Michelle's arrival which also means finding a place for Kayla's wreath that is kept in there. I dont think it would be appropriate to leave it in there especially since it has a Carebear with a few parts that glow in the dark.

Woohooo! its 28 degrees right now but at least no snow in the forecast. Hope it doesnt hit any of you. Keep warm in your neck of the woods.

Lynn