Grief & Healing from a Christian-Biblical Worldview

[shuugar]

Claudia

Thank you so much!

Beautiful. Absoleutly Beautiful

[lagrangel]

Patti,

Special prayers for your family and Matt on his birthday. It is so different those special celebrations without our loved ones but I hope and pray it will be a special day for Matt. My prayers and love extend towards your family on this day.

 

Oneta,

Special prayers are sent your way on this day. 

Sorry this is short I am off to work.

                                                                  Love to all, Lana

[grannyc]

"When we come into this world, we cry and everyone rejoices,

When we leave this world, everyone else cries - but we rejoice"

Just a so true thought!!

Cheryl  :?

[wyomingsal]

Patti...I am sending special prayers up for you and Matt today.  I know when my birthday came after Joshua died it was a horrible day for me.  How could I have a "happy" birthday without my boy here.  It felt horrible. 

Oh Lord...We cry out to you with the pain and hurt of missing the special people in our lives who are with You.  I ask special prayers for Matt today.  This is his special day.  The day we honor and celebrate his life and yet there is a cloud hanging over him today.  I ask that you comfort Matt and allow him some joy and happiness.  Allow him some smiles and fun.  Allow him to feel and know how much he is loved and cared for.  This birthday will not be the same for Matt without his dear brother present on Earth.  Give him peace and assurance that Mike is happy and joyful.  Help him feel that connection to his brother and let him know it is ok to be happy and live here on Earth until the day he can be reunited.  Lord you are Holy and Worthy.  You answer prayers.  Hear our cries oh Lord and bless Matt this coming year.  Help him grow and learn and become a young man after your own heart.  Amen.

 

Oneta,

God be with you as well, today, on this day of memories and thoughts of your Lamar.    My thoughts are with you,

Sal

[daniellemom]

Deb

Special prayers for you today as it's been a year today for you, also I pray that your son-in-law will soon allow you to see your grandchild.

Patti,

I will have you in my prayers all day today and for Matt! I hope he finds a little peace and can enjoy a little of his birthday. My son had his 18th birthday a month after Danielle passed, it was Thanksgiving and he really had a hard time because they had plans for that weekend to celbrate his birthday. My thoughts are with Matt, please tell him I said Happy Birthday!!

Oneta,

I've been missing your post!! I will also be praying for you today.

[bigmikesmom]

SAL,SONYA,CLAUDIA,LANA,RODY, AND ANYONE i missed,

Wow! How amazing to come to this thread and find all of your prayers and kind words for Matt and myself. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. What dear dear friends you all are.God Bless all of you!Claudia, your calender is working beautiful feelings in our lifes on these special days. Thank you. I cannot open my attachment?? that Oneta sent me. I know I don't have excell on my computer would that be why?

Love to all,

Patti-BigMikesMom

ps- look at the poem I posted on the loss of adult thread I think we can all relate to it

[daniellemom]

Patti,

I loved the poem, it was great. I hope Matt is finding peace on this B-Day!

Love and prayers.

Sonya

[msroderskie]

I've joined in agreement with the prayers offered by everyone here for the special needs today -- for Oneta, for Deb and for Patti and Matt.  What a blessed privilege it is to join with other Christians in prayer, encouraging each other to walk in faith.

Lord, we thank You so much for the astounding love, mercy and faithfulness You constantly show us, each day.  We thank You particularly for every single moment we've spent with the loved ones who've now gone on to be with You.  Please teach us how to cherish those times in the past, while clinging to You, trusting that You're working everything out for good, because we belong to You.   Thy will, not ours, be done in us and within all of those we love.  Thank You Lord.

Claudia, I haven't seen the calendar yet.  I'd love to see it -- it sounds lovely!  Was it sent to my e-mail, too?

Love to all, in Christ,  Rody   

[grannyc]

OH!  I add my agreement                                                        CH

In Jesus Name, Amen!!!

[misshimstill]

Hello everyone. 

It's been a while since I posted.  I've been reading and trying to get caught up with everyone, which is hard to do when you've been off as long as I have. 

I really appreciate everyone's prayers and comments to me for the 38th anniversary - or what would have been the 38th wedding anniversary for Lamar and me.  It wasn't easy, as you can imagine, but it went well.  I made a plan for the day and stuck to it.  I think - after past years of not doing this - that it's good to make a plan to do something different on whatever day it is that is difficult for you.  Trying to go on with our regular duties, if we don't absolutely have to, just makes it so much harder.  I have to do that at Christmas time, which was when he died, but I decided several days ago to take the day off work for this hard date and just spend the day with God and Lamar.  It was a day very well spent. 

I know that it wouldn't have been the kind of day that it was if I had not had so many people praying for me.  For the past four years of my "complicated grief", I've been very much alone in it.  No one has known what I was going through except me for nearly the whole first year.  Then a few people were brought in at certain times during these past several (3 or 4) years, but still, all in all, there've not been many people continuing to lift me up as I continue to struggle through this time.  Meeting all of you, such a wonderful supportive group of sisters, has made the journey so much less painful. 

I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you.  I'm one of the first to "benefit" from this prayer calendar, a truly inspired idea of Claudia's, and I can hardly wait for each of you to feel its benefits.

 

In Jesus' Love,

Oneta

[misshimstill]

Rody,  I read your post just now and sent the calendar to you.  Let me know if you don't get it or can't open it. 

Claudia, Hope you see this.

~Oneta

[misshimstill]

PS:  Anyone else who hasn't gotten the calendar and wants it, please let me know.  You can leave your email address here or can private message me or give the message to Claudia.  One way or another, we'll get it to you.  ~Oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Oneta,  Yes!  Thank you so much for taking over the mailing of the calendar.  I tried to send it to Rody and I just couldn't get the file through.  Rainforest living has lots of adbantages, but internet friendliness isn't one of them.  I'm grateful I don;t have much problem using the BI web board...yay!  So, again, Thank You very much.  I am really blessed by the lovely comments about the calendar, and happier still that it is a blessing to you all.  We'll update it with additional and changing dates every so often, and I can e-mail it from the city from time to time.  Love to you all, and blessings for a peace-filled weekend.

P.s.  Today is my mom's birthday...  I called her this morning and sang Happy Birthday in German.  She is sad, but took a day off from visiting Greg in the Alzheimer's Care Home, and has a couple of visitors spending time with her today at home.  I plan to call her this evening, when no one is around and the quiet lonliness of evening sets in...we can talk more then.  Lifting you up in prayer, Mommy...  Love, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hi everyone.

So far I've emailed another calendar out.  Hope Rody receives hers.  Claudia, I'm really SO happy to do this small favor.  It (the calendar) is such a blessing and a whopper of a great idea!  I know it will benefit all of us so much.  Again, I just can't tell you how much it changed my dreary mourning into - well, maybe not dancing yet - that may not happen until I see Jesus (and Lamar) - but at least it was changed into a peaceful, quiet joy, thanks to the prayer support I've received here from all of you and another lady who isn't a part of this, but I sure wish she was.  Maybe soon.

My love to all of you,

Oneta

[misshimstill]

PS:  And lifting up your mom, Claudia...  ~O

[wyomingsal]

Dear Cheryl,

Sending my thoughts and prayers your way today as you remember Tim and the time you spent together.  May God give you peace and comfort throughout the day and may the memories bring a smile to your face and a warmth to your heart along with the way. 

Hugs

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

I second Sal's prayers and sentiments, Cheryl.  Lifting you up in prayer as you remember all of those beautiful years with Tim and yearn for the Hope of eternity to come...  Love and Blessings, Claudia

[grannyc]

  Hi ((Everyone)))

Words can hardly express the appreciation I feel for all the prayer support that went out for me in these last days.  Yesterday being our Wedding Anniversary (Would've been 39)

I miss Tim so as you all can put it into discription, also.  But, I truly felt so close to the Lord and a very special closeness to Tim through the entire day.

I had one terrible day earlier this week but with some of my e-mail buddies, I was completely lifted to the Lord and have staggered above the circumstances,  Attended a dance recital for grand daughters and went out to supper with a friend, who is just one year out from a divorce she did not initiate.  So, I really got alot our of listening and sharing with her...

Crazy as this may sound....."39 years ago when Tim & I got married it snowed that afternoon, abit late in season for snow.......But it did.....Yesterday we had a full blown blizzard-Unbelieveable our winds gusting in the 30'smph. etc."   I told everyone, I was sorry they had to participate in Tim's humor - But, that this snow was just an Anniversary Greeting from Him to Me.......Everyone that knew Tim agreed, Yup, sounds like something he'd do. tsk tsk

Thanks again, and Claudia, again a thanx to you for beginning this calender!!!

Sincerely,

Cheryl :shock:

[msroderskie]

Claudia,  I've received the calendar from Oneta.  Thanks for forwarding the calendar Oneta, and thank you Claudia for creating such a beautiful way of remembering our sweet kids and other loved ones who've gone on ahead.  The photos are gorgeous and the scriptures are wonderful!

Shuugar, Patti, Oneta and Cheryl -- I hope you have all got through your anniversaries this month with renewed peace and strength from God.  Patti, I hope that you do well on the upcoming date when Mike would have graduated with his degree.  I do hope someone at the school will think to issue an honorary degree for him. The local high school that Matt had attended, decided to send me an honorary diploma for Matt after he died, and it meant the world to us.

Lord, please bless all of my sisters on this site with whatever they each need tonight and tomorrow as we start a new week.  Help each of us to worship You within our hearts daily.  Amen.   Love in Christ,   Rody

[lagrangel]

Anne,

I was thinking of you today and wondering how is your construction coming along? I saw a old post with Jamie's picture and just thought how much I miss your wonderful words that helped me through the first months of my journey. You and your family are in my prayers, Love Lana

Trish,

You were on my heart today thinking of how close school will be coming to a close and graduation is around the corner. I know with all those activites it will especailly be difficult and I hold you and your family in my prayers with those events coming. Peace and love to you and your family, Lana

I have a heavy heart for a family here in Bedford that lost their freshman son on Friday. I do not know them personally but they live 3 miles from us and when I passed their house and saw all the cars I just felt for them all the hurt and anquish they will experience.  I will pray for them and maybe others can say a prayer for this family.

I have had a rough weekend so my husband and I are going to a small Arts community to shop and have lunch on Monday. I am off school since this was a built in snow day and we did not have to use it so we decided my husband would take a vacation day and go. He is my best friend I don't know how I would have gotten through this without his love and support. Brent would be so proud of his Dad. Well I am just rambling so I had better go. I hope everyone has a very peaceful Monday, Love, Lana

[misshimstill]

Hi, everyone.

I'm remembering in prayer those who are having especially tough times right now.  I am also praying for the family down the street from you, Lana.  Just because we don't know them doesn't mean we don't feel their pain.  I know all of us would agree on that! 

Someone said they hoped the others and I feel a special strenthening from the Lord since our difficult anniversaries.  I can say that I really do.  This year was so much different from other times in recent years!!  There is no comparison that I can describe in words.  Prayer is such a powerful weapon.  If we could only see into the spirit realm the battles that are being waged on our behalf and in our defense I know that we would pray much more! 

I have read lots of entries when people kinda apologize for "rambling".  No one in particular -- just lots of us have said something like that.  I really think the "rambling" is good for us.  Sometimes we have these feelings that are hard to put into words.  Sometimes the "rambling" that comes out of us is some kind of expression of that pain or weariness in this battle called grief.  It may not make a whole lot of sense, but it gets some of the pain out anyway.  Or maybe it's gratitude to someone who has helped us through it.  Whatever the sentiment that is being expressed, I think we need to do a lot more "rambling" -- I think we'd be more emotionally healthy if we did it more.  This pain is so great!  Only those who are in this Valley of Grief know how hard it is.  A little rambling is just OKAY in my book.  So please don't feel that you should apologize for feeling like what you're writing isn't making a whole lot of sense.  It really doesn't have to.  God knows what we're saying, and I think - in our spirits - we know, too.  Just a thought...

Well, I'll stop "rambling" now, too.   

Prayers and blessings to all!  ~Oneta

[fujismum]

Hi all,

I was away on holiday and then soon after our computer broke down and we are only just back in action again.I've missed you guys! So again, I'm a bit out of the loop and haven't had time to read back on the posts.

We have been very busy with the extension on our house, which if you remember has been a way of us actually removing Jamie's room altogether.That may sound harsh, but I found his room so very difficult and it wasn't getting any easier as time passed.Now it has gone ( become part corridor and part of another larger bedroom) I still feel we have done the right thing for us. We have been stripping the wallpaper off and that has been a very thought provoking exercise.How he hated the tulip pattern he inherited when we moved here! yet it was so beautifully decorated it just wasn't a priority to change it, so he had to put up with it. Now that hurts us a lot, but how could we know Jamie would not be with us long enough to have the decor of his choice?I guess we all agonise with that on, things we would have not have put off doing had we known.

Mike and I seem to work work work- either in our day jobs or at home.It is our way of coping but I suppose at least it is productive!

Love to you all. I will try to get updated but you are all in my thoughts and prayers as we journey together.

Love Anne

[lagrangel]

Anne,

It was so good to read your post, we have missed you.  I am glad that your construction is going well I have thought of you so many times. I think we all need to do whatever for our coping. Changing a room or staying busy whatever works to continue on our journey. I am trying to change jobs just so I will be even busier at work.  It is that idle time for myself when I really have a difficult time coping. I hope your construction continues in a positive manner. You and your family are in my prayers, Lana

[bigmikesmom]

Oneta,

 could you please send me the calender in a different format. I couldn't open attachment    I sent you a private message. Thanks  Or if anyone else can I would appreciate it! We do not have excel.        mikulin@adelphia.net

Patti-bigmikesmom

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti, What version of MS Word do you have?  The calendar was never made in Excel.  That should not be the reason you can't open it.  I sent it to you originally in MS Word.  I'll have to try and figure out another format for you.  Do you have ADOBE READER program?  If so, what version?  It should open PDF files.  Sorry this is so problematic for you.  We'll get it figured out one way or another.  Promise!!  Hugs, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti,

Go to this link on the web:

http://www.download.com/Foxit-PDF-Reader/3000-2079_4-10313206.html

and under where it says Foxit PDF Reader 2.3 build 2825

click on the Blue Words (a built in link) that say

Download Now

After you download the Foxit Reader Software Program onto your computer, make sure you allow it to install.  Once you have the program, you can open and read all PDF files, of which the calendar Oneta sent you is a PDF file. 

There is no danger to your computer whatsoever to download this FREE software, and it is one of the easiest, fastest PDF file readers ever.

Hope it works out.  Let us know...   HUGS, Claudia

[bigmikesmom]

Claudia and Oneta,

Yeah! I opened the attachment using Adobe reader 7. Thanks so much for your figuring it out for me and the time you spent. It is beautiful. Claudia, you are a very special soul for making this calender. Oneta , thanks for your interceding. You are great.Love you! This is not a good week for me but I know all of you are praying for my family and I. Thank you.

Patti Big Mikes Mom

[lagrangel]

Patti,

    I know this will be a difficult day so I hold you up in my prayers. Every time I think of your son it is wonderful that he lived such a full life in a short time. You will be with me in my prayers today....Love, Lana

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti, I'm glad you got the calendar open and that you like it.

Joey would have graduated with his BA in AgriBusiness in January of this year--probably would have gone off to grad school by now.  Patti, I know how sad this day is for you--All the dreams our biys had that became our dreams too.  And while Big Mike and Joey have graduated with honors and glory far beyond anything we can fully comprehend, somehow those dreams we held with them loom over us and remind us of the stillness, the quiet, the days of events gone by without the heightened celebration, excitement in their voices, their voices...all of that.  My heart and prayers are yours today........   Much Love, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Patti,

So glad you were able to open the calendar finally.  We really had to work on that one, didn't we?  It was worth it now that you've got it.  Claudia did such a beautiful job on it.  I have mine on my desk top so I can open it very easily and conveniently.  I add my prayers with everyone else's for you throughout these more-than-usual- difficult days for you now.  I know that what Claudia said is true for you moms.  And Jesus knows your pain and cries with you, just like he did when he was on earth.

Hope everyone has a good day.  Blessings and the Lord's peace be with everyone. 

~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

Patti,

I am thinking of you and your family today and sending prayers for comfort and healing your way. 

I know the hopes and dreams you shared with Mike come to the forfront of your heart and mind on the day he would have graduated from college.   Give a big hug to Matt as this will be a hard day for him as well. 

God bless you and your family today,

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

I just read a commentary that I found uplifting, and I wanted to share it with you.  If anyone has time, the link is http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1214/  The article is called, The Night the Angel Didn't Come.

I've been missing you all, and thinking of you--certainly keeping you in prayer.   I have been in a bit of a funk, and also pushing myself to motivate and complete our N-P annual tax reporting (UGH) due by May 15, which I have pushed to the limit.  Sorry for my random and seldom posts lately, but I'm around still.  I think coming Mother's Day finds me a bit more sad....

Hugs and much love to you all, ~Claudia

[lagrangel]

Claudia,

   Thank your for the link. It was very uplifting and was something that I needed to read. I was feeling overwhelmed with Mother's day approaching and that article was just what I needed. Thanks and my prayers are with you on Mother's day.

                                                                                                   Love, Lana

[4everjoeysmom]

Lana, I'm glad the article was helpful to you.  I also have been feeling quite overwhelmed...  It's Mother's Day, or course, and knowing that it will never, ever have the same kind of joy it had (here in this life) before Joey departed from it.  And I think just being here, so isolated and lonely, and far away from my family and surviving son...  My husband is a very good man, but just cannot see and feel life through my (profoundly changed) heart and mind.  I find additional isolation and lonliness in that, given that our vocation and liviing situation is conducive to that "loneliness in following Christ" .   It's a bit overwhelming...  especially today.

My heart goes out to all mothers who have lost a child, and all children who have lost a mother...  Thinking of you all today, and always...   Love, ~Claudia 

[daniellemom]

Claudia,

Thanks for the link, it was very insightful for me. I wished I had read it before Mother's Day.

Prayers always,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[wyomingsal]

Claudia, Great artical. 

After reading it I saw an artical underneath that talked about what happens when we die.   It is still confusing to me and I probably wont understand it until it is my turn.    I don't expect you all to have the answers either.  It is just intersting to me.

John Piper talks about how  being a disembodied soul with Christ is preferred to living on Earth but the best would be to have Jesus return and go immediately into our resurrected bodies.  Last July I had a huge need and disire to know what happened to Joshua when he died.  I want to know where is his spirit?  Does he look the same?  Is he already in his glorified body?  I poured through scriptures.  Is he unsconcious/sleeping waiting for the Lord to return?  (when Christ returns we will be caught up with Him and transformed and the dead will be caught up first)  Is Josh already with Christ? (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.)  It seems John Piper believes we will be with Christ but in spirit form until the return of Christ when we will be clothed in our resurrected bodies.  All sorts of questions arise then.  Are ghost real? ....the disembodied spirits of dead people perhaps who aren't saved and don't get to go to be with Christ? 

All I have been able to hold onto is "To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ."  And "To live is Christ and to die is gain."  All I know is my boy is with Christ and he has gained more then he had here.  It will have to be enough.

Sal

 

[4everjoeysmom]

Sal, I have those SAME questions.  I know what is clear, as you've pointed out in your last sentence.  Piper has a certain viewpoint, and there are many others concerning the end times and Christ's return.  The study is called Eschatology, and my husband is fanatically interested in this subject.  Some of his "theories" are way more than I could begin to dexcribe--but the bottom line is Yes!  They are present with the Lord NOW.  In what form, I do not know.  But I know it doesn't matter to them.  SO in that sense, I am comforted in knowing Joey is definitely with Jesus right now.....

Mother's Day whopped me pretty hard.  I am still in flowing tears today.  My husband was not here with me, and I spent the day very alone, and very sad--so very far from home and family.  I did get to have a 2-hour chat with my surviving son last night, and that was a glorious 2 hours.  My God I miss Joey so much, and I am just aching so badly....  I sat this morning and sifted through a box of "things" I have that belonged to Joey.  I can't believe in this life, this is all that I have to tnagibly hold in my hand, touch, and smell......

I don't have all of the answers of my heart's desire, but I know one day we will "know"..........   and I ache for that day so much......   Love to all, Claudia

[daniellemom]

Claudia and Sal,

You are such wonderful ladies and so glad to hear I'm not the only person wondering about these things. I'm with both of you, I only know that Danielle is with the Lord and that gives me confort.

But I'm so glad I'm not the only christian that stuggles with the lost for myself even if I know it was Danielle's gain. While it is Danielle's gain it's my loss and it hurts beyond words and so many of my Christian friends think because it was a gain for Danielle that I should not be hurting. It's very hard. I think maybe I expect too much from people. Yesterday was very hard and it seemed to me that the only people that knew that was my Mom, and sisters and my kids and Timmy (spouse), Danielle's daddy. No one from my husbands family called or stopped by to just say, Hey I'm thinking of you today and this day has to be hard. I think maybe I am displaying my angry about not having Danielle here to them not caring. I know they care they just don't say anything because they don't know what to say. I say "SAY SOMETHING", anything say her name!!!!!!! Danielle lived she was my baby I was her mother, say something!!!!!

I'm sorry that I unloaded, it's just a bad day I guess. Thanks for listening.

Love and prayers always,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya,  There is absolutely NO need to apologize.  WE HAVE LOST!  And it is sad.  It is very sad, especially on days that we know were special to our children, because they made much out of the day to celebrate their love for us, moms, dad's, siblings, birthdays, holidays, weddings, special celebrations, and everything under the heavens and stars that brought our kids so much joy and zest for life.  Joey was a social butterfly, much like me.  He was always out doing something if he wasn't in studying or working.  And he loved gatherings.  I think the noise of their absence rings louder on these days that they would have been energetic and alive with energy and activity.  I just longed to hear my boy's voice yesterday, to hear him say Happy Mother's Day, to hear him say I love you mom just one more time...  Grieving and feeling sadness for "the missing" is not what I consider being less Christian than anyone else.  We know the "reality" and the HOPE of our circumstances, without a doubt.  But God designed in us a mother's heart, and He filled it with so much ability to love our children, nurture them, cherish them, and delight in them.  When that child dies their earthly death before us, that heart doesn't just swallow up all of those years and tears, and love, and joy, those prayers and talks, and the essence of our relationship with them.  Somewhere in the middle of having our children and losing them is a balance, and it's so hard to find that balance when we walk with a shattered equilibrium.  My Christian friends back home have expected me to "carry on", be strong, and be there for their issues when they need prayer--which of course I am.  But honestly it is rare these days for me to receive a note from any of them asking how I am doing, or if I have a need.  I get e-mails all the time from them asking me to pray for this, or for that.  I respond personally, and rarely get a personal note back anymore.  What is that?!  And yet we should worry to be judged for "feeling" or "being real"  Maybe I created an air on this thread that we must always portray Hope.  I think it's ideal when we can be a bright light of hope for others here.  I think it's beautiful and wonderful and God-honoring.  But if we can't be "real" here too, then what is there to "need God's ministering"?  Even Jesus needed ministering angels.  We need to be ministered to as much as we need to minister.  That is in essence why we are called His Body....   to be there for one another.

You are all in my thoughts and prayers so very often throughout each day, and I so appreciate each of you.  Please don;t ever feel like you cannot be open on this thread to receive the blessing and ministry that God has in store for you.  Lord knows I need it too.  Much love in Christ, Claudia

[daniellemom]

Claudia,

Thank you!! I've never felt like I could not be real on this thread or any of the threads at BI. I think I just needed to get that off my chest, I think a lot of time I try to be the strong one for the family to look at and take the lead, I don't know. Danielle was always the life of the party the one that would really laugh outload, no faking with her! She was such a joy to be with and around. Just like your Joey. I really feel for you being so far from your family, I'm glad you had a long chat with your son last night. My prayers are with you always.

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Thank You Sonya.  You are such a dear heart.  I just know Danielle and Joey are the very best of friends.  I can't help looking at Danielle's photo and every time thinking "There is a girl that my son would have fallen head over heals for."  What you have shared about her nature and spirit, I just know that would be true.

Like you, I feel like I need to "try hard" to be strong most of the time.  For me it is because my work is so overwhelming with the pain and suffering of other people.  And that's ok, truly, because I feel that if I couldn't be ministering to other people, my purpose in life woyuld basically be--I don't know what.  But at the end of the day, when I can unwind and reflect, it's hard to keep the tears from falling for my own life's tragedy.

I just received word an hour ago that our ministry partner's sister just lost her 8 months old baby girl.  The baby was born with Down's Syndrome, but had been doing well until just very recently.  I'm so sad for another mother who is mourning the loss of her precious child...  It's so odd that all through growing up and young adulthood I never really heard a lot or noticed much the deaths of so many young people and children.  Is it my imagination, or have the numbers grown to staggering proportions beyond what they were a couple of decades ago?  Or was I just ignorant to it all???????

[davidsmom]

Hello all, I don't post often on this thread, but I certainly read it "religiously"...lol But, I had to reply to Claudia. I have also noticed similar responses from friends and acquaintances, the ones quick to write for advice, a prayer, etc, while seldom asking anything about our family.  My support comes from a few close friends, and here on BI, where everything I say is understood without me having to explain.

I do have an "issue" that I thought may as good a place as any to bring up. As some of you may know, I am not technically "Christian", ie don't belong to a Christian denomination, but IMO this makes me no less a follower of Jesus than anyone else who has true Faith in Him. I am a believer and follower of the Word of God, but maybe not in the same way as some of you (I belong to a more Eastern type of Philosphopy, which doesn't change who Jesus is)  But, my step-mother, a "real" Christian, apparently doesn't believe this. Not too long ago, I received an email from her, suggesting that David was killed because we weren't "Christian enough". She proceeded to tell me of all sorts of people who were taken young, who were not believers. This was one of the most upsetting things to happen to me, since losing dear David. (good thing she couldn't see my head spinning)

I have had a lot of anger about this....I know God doesn't take our children like this, out of anger, revenge, etc, and only I know what my true beliefs are anyways. I guess I would ask some of you how best would I reply to such a message?

I hope this isn't considered "out of line", I don't mean to make any offenses.

Lots of Love,

Lisa

[wyomingsal]

Lisa

I think people speak out of fear and ignorance.  Many people believe that the parents must be responsible somehow for the death of their child.  Maybe God needed to teach them a lesson.  Maybe they weren't good enough parents.  Otherwise it could happen to anyone and how could that be.  They don't feel they can blame God but such a horrible thing shouldn't happen.  It must be someone's fault.   

 How horrible and hurtful to receive such an email.  When ever I hear things like that (your fault because you weren't Christian enough)....or that someone didn't have enough faith and that is why bad things have happened I think upon Job in the old testament.  Job was following God and in fact God was bragging about how wonderful Job was.  Why then did Job lose every one of his children?  Why did he lose his fortune and his health?  What could be worse then losing all of your children in one horrible accident?  When Jobs friends tried to tell him he needed to repent because God must be mad at him, he didn't know what to repent of.  His friends were later chastised by the Lord for assuming Job had sinned. 

Jim Elliot was a missionary who went on a mission to serve the Lord.  He was shot full of arrows and killed before he could utter any of God's words to the tribe he was attempting to reach.  What a shame.  What a useless waste of a life. Or was it?  Jim's wife later went to that same tribe and they were so amazed that she cared about them after the death of her husband that many came to know Jesus.  His death was not because he was sinning or because his parents sinned.  His death was allowed by God Himself to futher His Kingdom.  Jim Elliot is happy with the Lord.  The people left behind hurt.  We don't always see the eternal picture. 

 I don't know why my son or your son was allowed to leave so soon.  Much sooner then I can stand.  I hate every moment without my boy.  But I do believe that in the eternal scheme of things this is just a blink in time.  The misery without him will be replaced by an eternity with him.  I do know you love your son still with all your heart.  I know that God loves your beloved David just as much as you do...so hard to believe as a Mom.  I believe with all my heart that what ever the reason...it will be ok in eternity. 

God's peace and blessings upon you Lisa,

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

Lisa, I completely 2nd what Sal said.  When I hear things like this come out of the mouths of people who consider themselves these good, flawless Christians, it just makes me so angry.  It is this kind of stuff that makes people looking in from the outside say they would rather not have anything to do with Christianity.  Shame on them!

I think it's always best to "graciously" point "those people" back to the Scriptures and leave them the burdon of proving what they say is Biblical.  Beyond the New Covenant (and New testament) there is verly little evidence, if any, of a "punishing" God.  Christ took the sins of the world, past, present and future upon Himself.  If God were to go around punishing believers for their sins, weaknesses and failures, then Christ's death on the cross would be for naught.  I would respond to your step mother saying that what she is proposing is hurtful to you, and if she can point out any Scripture in the New Testament to support her "theories", then you would be open to seeing them.  This leaves the brudon of proof on her and maybe she will learn a little Truth, grace and humility in the process.

Joni Erickson-Tada wrote about a similar incident that happened to her.  being paralyzed and in a wheelchair, there were occasions when Christians would tell her that her faith must not be strong enough if she could not be healed to walk by some of the faith-healers that had visited her.  How proposterous!  It nearly destroyed Joni's faith, because she had so much hope and these "Christians" were beating her hope senseless with lies.  God is using that woman in a mighty way JUST THE WAY SHE IS.  In fact, she would likely not have as strong a ministry if she had been healed.  The attention span for that kind of stuff is pretty short.  Does anyone remember those Christian missionary girls that were captured and imprisoned about 8 years ago or so?  I think it was in Iran--could be wrong.  Anyway, a couple of them traveled around with the Women of Faith circuit and told of their harrowing experience and journey of faith.  Since then I've heard nothing of any of them, and they had a huge story to tell.  My point is that Yes oftentimes God saves someone from a horrible situation.  And other times tragedies and loss occur because it is oftentimes that these greater tragedies carry more weight and time in their destiny of ultimately reaching other lost souls.  I wish so much my Joey didn't have to be lumped into one of those tragedies that reaches out to others.  But I know it is because of the shocking way he died that people are still talking about it 2 years later, and people are still coming to know the Lord through learning about what happened to Joey.

I'm so glad you posted here Lisa, and I hope that responses you get back are helpful to you and not more than you wanted.  Please let us know how we can help and pray for you through your difficult times.  I know of your recent challenge with the mom of Matt--and I have been praying for you.  Love & Hugs, Claudia

[davidsmom]

Oh you two, thank you from the bottom of my heart. And no, never too much..lol , Faith is the glue that keeps everything together, and it seems that no matter how well grounded I am (or believe myself to be), being in such a vulnerable, fragile position after losing David, of course I questioned myself. And then, I became angry, of course. I probably uttered more naughty words after reading this email than I have said in an entire lifetime! lol This was the precise behavior which made me question the church. But, in my heart, I know that this is not what Christ Himself taught. My straying from the Christian Church was never because of my lack of faith in Him. That Love was planted very early on, with my being Blessed with being sent to Catholic School, and finding a Priest who was a bit ahead of his times, so to speak. I had the most charismatic Catholic Priest you could imagine, who led guitar mass, and who taught me so much of a Loving God, a Forgiving God..One who Loves ME too.

Your words give me much to reflect on, as always. Thank you both for your loving friendship and understanding. The reassurance and acceptance is warming.... And I probably will continue to post here, because I like it:)

[4everjoeysmom]

Lisa,  It is true.  Most of the people I know to have ever left the church left because the people in the church failed and disillusioned them, not God.  So sad...

To ALL, I wanted to share this amazing insight from Elisabeth Elliott, I found in a testimony she gave in 2001 at the memorial service for a woman missionary (wife and mother) and her infant child, both shot and killed by the same bullet as their small plane was flying over the jungle of Peru.  I found these words comforting...

You wonder what God is doing, and of course, we know that God never makes mistakes. He knows exactly what He is doing, and suffering is never for nothing. . . . He has given to you the cup of suffering, and you can share that with the Lord Jesus who said, "The cup the Father has given to me, I have received."

She ended with a poem by Martha Snell Nicholson (a "mendicant" is a beggar):

I stood a mendicant of God before His royal throne

And begged him for one priceless gift, which I could call my own.

I took the gift from out His hand, but as I would depart

I cried, "But Lord this is a thorn and it has pierced my heart.

This is a strange, a hurtful gift, which Thou hast given me."

He said, "My child, I give good gifts and gave My best to thee."

I took it home and though at first the cruel thorn hurt sore,

As long years passed I learned at last to love it more and more.

I learned He never gives a thorn without this added grace,

He takes the thorn to pin aside the veil which hides His face.

.......It is the lifting of the veil so that we see Jesus for who he is, dying in our place and rising again so that we receive him as the treasure of our lives.

And if it takes a thorn to pin aside the veil – if it takes disappointment and loss and heartache and calamity and bitter providences – then, for Christ's sake, and for the sake of our eternal joy seeing and savoring him, let it come. Amen.

Personally,  I find these difficult and painful words as I learn to appreciate my thorn, and I long for the day when the pain will be no more...when it will no longer take a thorn to pin aside the veil in order to see his face clearly.........

[daniellemom]

Lisa,

Welcome to the thread. I really can't add anthing to what Sal and Claudia said about your step-mother. I'm sorry you are having to deal with that. As well as Matt's mother. I do agree with Claudia about asking her for scriptures.

Claudia,

Thank you for your post. I really needed to read that. The Lord continues to use you to post, say just the right thing at just the right time. Thank you!!! Also, I think that Joey would have been someone that Danielle would have loved to hang out with. I don't know if we could have stood them together!!! LOL. Danielle was so happy and loud!!! You always knew when she came in. She would hit the back door and hollow "Hello, my family!! I'm home the fun can begin!!

Love and prayers always,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya, I laughed when I read what you wrote about maybe not being able to stand that much energy with Danielle and Joey together.  Sometimes Joey would be wound so tight with energy, I could hardly stand just him.  LOL!!  He was always letting the world know he was here... 

I'm glad that post helped you.  I've been praying and reflecting on it all day--the part about the gift of a thorn and how much that can hurt while in the long haul something beautiful and good will grow from it.  I told my husband this morning that I just feel so raw right now, like a fish that's been filleted and here I am just laying out wide open to the elements and to vulnerabilty, and it just hurts so much.  Maybe it's another phase of growing and healing, and part of it is likely more of that "dying to self" that God loves so much from us.... ouch!   "Motherhood, a call to suffering", so much joy and then oftentimes so much sacrifice and pain.  But I wouldn't trade any of it in to have missed out on one single moment, despite the new meaning to suffering now....

I'm continuing to pray, and I am holding on, always, to the hope of better and brighter tomorrows.  Love & Hugs, Claudia

[grannyc]

Hi (everyone)!!!

I am passing through, matter of fact probably not many of you remember me.....I have developed some wonderful relationships with gals from here.  We e-mail daily and are a great support in that manner.  It is unbelievable how these gals have become my fresh air for each day.  And, I know them through and through, no holding back. It has been a gift from God.

Blessing to all of you!   I'll check back again-always texts that teach me!

Cheryl   :?

[4everjoeysmom]

Cheryl, How could we forget you?!  So glad to hear you've made some good supportive friends.  Like you, I'm not certain how I would have faired through some of my toughest groef moments without many here.  Hugs and blessings, Claudia