Grief & Healing from a Christian-Biblical Worldview

[misshimstill]

Angel girl and any other Catholic who may be vising this thread,

I'll just add my own 2 cents here, also.  Please do not leave this thread if it helps you in any way in your grieving process.  Some of us here on this thread are protestants; some of us are Catholics.  I believe we can all grieve together, as our commonality is faith in Jesus Christ, the only "unique" Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day and rose bodily into Heaven.  He will some day come again in the same form (bodily) and received all who believe in His name for salvation.  That is the common thread that binds all Christians together.  As Claudia said, it is/was not in anyone's mind to create this thread to discuss heavy, heady theological issues, but to share our grief from a Biblical worldview, which I believe we have tried to do.  Please, please do not feel rejected here.  Catholic, protestant - we all believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior.  My deceased husband's family were/is Roman Catholic.  I am not Catholic myself, but I honor and respect the traditions of the Catholic Church and have learned MUCH from that tradition and the practices of some of the early church fathers (and mothers) you mentioned; St. Thomas of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avilla, to name a couple. 

I personally am very grieved, as is I believe the Holy Spirit, when people who bear the name of Christ disagree before the world over theological differences that are simply differences of opinion and interpretation (and there are many such things we could possibly disagree over).  We should, I believe, concentrate on our common faith in Jesus Christ.  I personally will be very sad if you or any other Catholic leaves.  We are all sisters/brothers in Christ and will spend Eternity together.  I hope we can learn to live on the planet Earth together harmoniously before we go to our Heavenly home.  That's my feelings on the issue.  I love all Christians.  We are all brothers and sisters in the Lord and our destiny is Heaven.  Please stay with us. 

I hope and pray everyone has a good day.  Blessings to each in the precious name of our Lord Jesus who shed His blood as an atonement for all,  ~Oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Amen!

[misshimstill]

Claudia,

I got your newsletter yesterday.  I haven't had a chance to read it thoroughly, but I will do that today.  I also forwarded it to my husband.  I know he will be interested in what you're doing.  Our is a very mission-minded church.  We have a very active mission committee.  We are doing something right now called Ethne to Ethne.  Each Sunday morning we focus on an unreached people group and give a short synopsis of that group and then pray for them, trying to educate the church a little bit on unreached people groups.  It's been very interesting.  Talk to you later.  ~Oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Oneta, Thanks for the enocuragement.  I love it when churches teach with a mission-minded focus.  Believe it or not, Michael and I do not have to travel far from where we live to reach the unreached.  We have literally had people ask "What is a Bible"..  it was shocking to hear that question at first, and then the sadness comes to realize people have never heard Jesus' name.....  Bless you too in your work.  I look forward to your feedback when you get a chance.  You have my e-mail... 

[daniellemom]

Claudia,

Do you have a newsletter? If so could you email it to me? wrenns@labcorp.com I would love to read it and learn more about what you do. I have told you before that your Mom and Greg are on the pray list at church and likewise are you and your husband and the work that you do. I would like to share it with the church also.

To everyone,

Grace and peace be with you all!

I miss Danielle more each day that passes. We found out Friday night that my son was accepted to NCState Univ. I'm so very proud of him but I just cried because I knew that Danielle would have been so proud of him and excited for this wonderful news. She loved her family so much and was very proud of James accomplishments.

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya,  Yes, I will send you a copy of the newsletter.

My heart broke when I read the wonderful news of your son's acceptance into NCSU and your feelings for Danielle and that now ever present void when significant events in our lives come and go.  I have felt the very same sadness for Patrick as he sat with me and sadly explained how he felt in attendance at his friend's wedding, realizing  that Joey would not be attending his wedding...  It is so sad for us when we miss our children, But when we see our children missing their sibling--oh the sadness is almost unbearable.  That is the heart of a parent, yes?  Always breaking...

Your prayers are coveted, my sister and friend...  THANK YOU.  Love, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

I almost forgot to share this dreamthis morning...  It is nothing large or significant, but I rarely have dreamed of Joey since he passed...actually rarely dream of family ever.  At sometime after 5 this morning (when I got up for the bathroom and went back to sleep) I had a very short dream.  Joey was standing, facing me, and he was saying, "Why do you have to be there?  Why do you have to go?"  and I gave him a very big hug and told him it would only be for a while.  It is what I have to do.  And then I rolled over and woke from my dream--ugh.  BUT I had a dream...  I hugged my boy!!!!!!  God, I miss him.

[sheela]

joeysmom i believe that was God senind him to you in a dream to comfort you i see my mom in the same way a lot of times in the dream i remember that shes gone from this life and i talk to her and tell her how much i miss her and hug her etc - these dreams are Gods gift to us who are grieving so hard and so much

God can and will do anything he wants to including this we must never doubt his powerfulness and his willingness to do this and other things too, i know i doubt God can or will help me a lot bc i feel very undeserving of him or his help as many of us do - but he is always there weather we think we deserve him or not...

[4everjoeysmom]

Sheela, THNAK YOU.  Indeed, God is ALWAYS there!  I do believe my brief dream was a gift from God, giving me a chance to do something I have longed to do.  I will cherish it with Thanksgiving to our powerful, loving and merciful God.  Bless you also, and the Holy Spirit guide and comfort you.  Amen!  Love, Claudia 

[fujismum]

Claudia - after reading your post last night I too dreamed of Jamie for the first time in ages. We had the very very unusual experience last night in the UK at @1.00am- a very distinct earth tremor which lasted for several minutes all over the country. It woke Mike and I up and was very disorientating as we NEVER have this happen and an earth tremor is probably last on our list of reasons for this strange sensation.

For a a moment there I truly thought - hoped - it was the second coming- now wouldn't that have been just fantastic!

 But once I did settle back to sleep again many hours later, I dreamed Jamie wandered down the stairs with his coat on, and gave me the hugest longest hug and sloppy kisses. He looked so very pale and I said "Darling you're not well at all, you can't go to school, you've been in bed for ages now" He replied, with the lovliest grin

" I am going to school mum, I'll be OK and I'll go to the doctors tonight".

 And I just remember the warmth of him, the wonderful bear hug that I so miss, his dear sweet voice and that wonderful grin. My Jamie.

Now quite what that was all about I don't know, Jamie had not been at school for a year as he managed to get a very good apprenticeship at 16. But the lovliest thing was being with him again in a very physical sense and having all those physical sensations through a dream.  And he was happy, clearly unwell, but happy.

Just too bad we have to wake up.

    We are extending the house and this week the time has come to empty Jamie's room as it is "disappearing" with the new changes.All very carefully planned and we hoped it would help us come to terms with things a bit.We all found his room extremely painful and could not imagine using it for anything else or finding any peace in going there. So we have worked ( what feels like in slow motion) through his belongings, getting rid of some, packing others. It has struck me how little Jamie posessed - just a few simple toys really and a lot of cheap clothes- almost exclusively tee shirts and track suit trousers. A few kiddies videos - Rug Rats the Movie and some teenagerish music CDs. It struck me really for the first time how very young he was, he had only just learnt to drive and had only just started going out without needing a lift.Very very painful to do- real heartache and physical pain and very deep emotional exhaustion after every session of clearing up. And such an invasion of privacy for a teenage lad- I really felt I was out of order looking at everything and examining everything.Not right at all. But no shocks or surprises, thank goodness.he was such a good lad.

 I did find a little note tucked in his bible that he must have  written  when he was about 16 - it said amongst other things " I have been baptised because I want to follow God.I have learned to walk His way, and I want to read the bible and go to church."

Those words "I have learned"-- not I am learning,or I am  trying. I felt that was a sort of confirmation that he had completed his time on this earth and was ready to go and be with the God he loved. But maybe it was just the arrogance of youth!

Lots of love to you all. I wish it had been the second coming last night,then we would now  all be with our darlings and  God - now wouldn't that be just  brilliant?

Love Anne

[4everjoeysmom]

Oh Yes, Anne!  IF ONLY it had been Jesus coming to take us home.  That certainly is an odd occurrence in the UK, isn't it?  And the timing, and all.  But how wonderful that you were able to have such a wonderful dream to follow.  I know much good it was for me to be able to have that moment with Joey, and the physical sensations you speak of, even if only it were in a dream.

I don't think at all that Jamie's note about finding God and wanting to know more about Him was written in the arrogance of youth.  Youth who are "too cool" for Jesus generally don't mention God much.  I believe finding that note is the conformation perhaps you silently needed to confirm the condition of Jamie's heart and know once for all that Jamie is indeed saved and living out his eternal life, in the presence of the Lord.  Even though I knew Joey was saved, I still had twinges of desire to have conformation that he IS in Heaven.  I think when we are so desperate to have contact with our children, for missing them so, we easily get caught in a web of disillusion and/or discouragement.  I think its normal.  But most often for the believer, we get some kind of confirming comfort or peace from the Holy Spirit, which helps us "to know".  I found a lot of Joey's Bible Study notes when I went through his things.  He was more the pack rat type, but he really didn't have much of value--mostly his sentimental things.  It was comforting to me to read his handwriting and see that he was corresponding in the things of God.

It sounds as though you've made a good decision with the home addition.  What will the room become?

I was up again at 5 this morning, went back to bed, and before sleep came again I thanked the Lord for dream and wondered if I would dream again.  I did.  But this time I was to have a hysterectomy on the local (unskilled) hospital, and they were going to keep me there for 3 weeks.  It was a series of lots of questions and wondering if I would make it out alive.  I think tonight I'll pray for the second coming... 

Bless you, my sister and friend.  Love, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Oh, I agree SO MUCH!  I would love for Jesus to come back TODAY!  When I was a little girl about 10 or so, I can remember sitting in the swing in our front yard.  I lived on a farm out in the country in Oklahoma.  I think it was Easter Sunday.  It was a warm spring afternoon, and as I sat in the swing I watched the clouds drift slowly by overhead.  Then I had an image of Jesus appearing in the clouds with lots and lots of angels.  He was coming to take us all to Heaven!  I'll never forget seeing that.  I've always expected since that happened to be alive at the time when Jesus came back again.  These last few years since my complicated grief began, I've sort of lost the vision for that and have just wanted to go to heaven, and I wasn't particular how I got there.  But every now and then, I remember that afternoon and that expectation that I would be alive to see Jesus return.  Who knows?  Maybe I will.  I'm not that old -- only 56.  If He doesn't tarry long, it could happen!  I pray every day for Him to come again soon.

I'm glad both you, Anne, and you, Claudia, had such wonderful dreams of your boys!  That is such a wonderful experience to dream of our loved ones.  Every once in a while I get to dream of my husband.  It always seems like he's right here with me.  I used to dream only upsetting dreams of him -- like he had been gone for a very long time, came back, and all I could think about was that he was going to leave me again and could not enjoy his time with me.  I haven't had a dream like that for a very long time, thankfully.  The last few I've had have been wonderful dreams of time spent with him.  It is very comforting.

Anne, I think the note you found in your son's Bible was a wonderful affirmation to you of where he is and how he felt about following the Lord.  Claudia is right.  Not many teens have that attitude.  We need to know where they are and that they're okay.  When my little brother died back in '66, my poor mother just couldn't get peace about where he was.  He had just turned 13 and I felt with absolute certainty that he was with Jesus.  After she died 4 years ago, when I was going through her house I found a note she had written to him that was dated about three or four days after his death.  It was heart wrenching.  She was saying that she could be at peace if she knew he was alright.  It broke my heart to think she had doubted for a minute where Charles was because I had always known that he was in Heaven.  I don't know if she ever got that peace she needed so desperately in her lifetime.  I do know that just a week or two before her death, she said she had seen my dad and my two brothers who had died, and they were all three together waiting for her.  So at least before her death she got the confirmation she needed.  I'm so glad you haven't had to live your entire life wondering where Jamie is and knowing that he's in Jesus' arms.

I hope everything goes well with making the changes in your house, Anne.  It's hard sometimes to make those changes, but when the time is right we generally know.  Let us know how it goes.

For those of you who know that I've been getting new kitchen cabinets, it's been a slower process than I originally thought.  I've been washing dishes in the bathroom for a month now and cooking only in an electric skillet and the microwave.  No running water in the kitchen.  Boy, do I miss that!  I'm supposed to get the rest of my countertops put on today and then the sink and appliances Friday.  Hopefully, there will be no more delays.

Blessings to each and may we all feel the peace of the Holy Spirit today.  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

I find that stress increases my grief feelings.  I think washing dishes in the bathroom would have to count for an increase in stress.    I pray for strength and endurance for you from the Lord while those cabinets are going in. 

 

I hope this is ok to post and isn't offensive to anyone.   I would like to ask for prayer for a young lady that came into our pregnancy resource center and went for a medicated abortion yesterday.  We were able to make contact with her today and she is still in the process of cramping and she is hurting terribly.  She has to take the second pill at 2pm today.  She regrets the choice she made but can't change things at this point.  She is losing a precious child even as we speak and even though it was by her own choice I think the pain and grief are still there and real.  Even though the Bible doesn't specifically say their is an age of accountability, I do believe it is in line with God's word that young children will be in Heaven.  David believed his baby was in Heaven when it died.   I believe the baby will join our own Heavenly children today with the Lord.  This situation has been on my heart and the hearts of those of us at my work.  We are praying specifically that this will draw this young lady closer to God and not harden her heart towards Him.  I find I value each person so much more since I lost my precious son. 

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

Sal, I DEFINITELY will be praying for this young woman.  The scars of grief and pain for such an awful decision can weigh heavily for many, many years.  I know this pain personally.  A dear friend and sister of mine is very active in the JFA (Justice For All) campus outreach ministry.  I've learned so much through her on this choice so many young women make (for so many reasons), and how so very much the desire of this ministry is to see these young women ultimately encounter with the Lord to know that no matter if they followed through or just had thoughts of abortion that our God of mercy will forgive them... Of course the hope is to turn around a would-be choice to abort and consider alternatives.  ALL life is precious!  These young women need Christ so much...what a painful thing to go through.  I pray this young woman will meet Jesus and find peace through His forgiveness....  My heart is so sad for her...  and yes!  I believe God saved the child though the world did not.......

[misshimstill]

Hi, Sal.  I can laugh at the idea of doing dishes in the bathroom, which is a good thing, I think.  I just tell myself, "Think of this as camping."  Thing is, I never liked camping. 

I don't see a thing wrong with you asking for prayer for this young woman.  I used to work for a Crisis Pregnany Center many years ago.  I still think abortion is wrong, but my attitude has changed so much toward the women since I worked there.  We don't always know what is going on in their lives that make them think they have to take such an action.  I will pray for her and you as you minister to her.

I agree that the baby is in Heaven.  That is one comfort you can maybe offer her.  We have a church here in Austin that has an outdoor garden area with a huge statue of Jesus.  He's holding a baby in his arms.  There is a seat next to the statue, and when you sit there and look at Jesus, it's like he's looking right into your eyes, and it's your baby he's holding.  A woman who does a lot of post-abortion counseling in our church says she has taken she doesn't know how many women there for prayer and healing.  Then one day she asked my husband and me to take her because though she had taken so many there, she had never gone herself.  It was very moving for me and my husband, as well as for her.   I will just pray for a spirit of repentance to come upon this young woman and for God's peace and comfort and forgiveness to be given and felt by her.  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

Thank you for your prayers for this woman.  I applied to work here at Carenet right before my Joshua died and  my interview was actually to be the day we had Joshua's funeral.  Needless to say I wasn't able to make it.  God kept the position open for me and I started working here on 9/11.  I am an RN and they trained me to do ultrasounds and I love it.  We pray before we start every morning.  The support has been wonderful.  We share the gospel with each young lady that comes through our doors.  I can't think of a better place to work.  But our hearts are often saddened by everything many of the young women are going through who walk into our center. 

Sal

 

[misshimstill]

I can imagine that it is a wonderful place to work, with a great environment, starting with prayer every day.  It's good to be in a people-helping profession.  I didn't know you are a nurse.  I'm in the medical profession, but not a nurse or anything like that.  I type...  I type medical reports.  I've been doing op reports for three years or a little better now.  I've been doing transcription now for over ten years.  I decided back in the mid 90s when my kids were getting older and it became obvious that I was going to have to go to work, that if I had to work, I might as well do something I enjoyed doing.  I had almost gone to med school in college, but then I met my husband and fell in love and all of that stuff, and school went right out the window, to my dad's chigrine.

[fujismum]

I used to have a real passion for the pro life issue and did a lot of work with a UK organisation called SPUC .I say used to, I still care very much but that was one relay baton I had to put down when trying to make my life more manageable.But I still feel very strongly about it and will pray for the girl recently discussed on these posts. I know that many women live with the secret grief of an aborted child and we must be compassionate and supportive.It is another tragedy.

I gather everyone in the USA is laughing at us Brits getting so excited about an earthquake that measured 5.2 on the Richter Scale (is that right?) but we are not used to this and it has been a real talking point for us all.I guess you guys are used to bigger stuff!

We continue to work our way through Jamie's room as if we are in slow motion. One night Beth Jamie's girlfriend came over and collected some of her things that were left here andshe was able to tell me things about his clothes that I didn't know.Like where he wore certain tee shirts, the shirt he wore on his 17th birthday- little things but all very precious if I didn't know them already.

That night I felt able to pack away his clothes in a large suitcase thinking it was the right thing to do. But my husband was extremely angry with me later for doing it without him and we had the biggest upset we have probably ever had. I honestly didn't mean to leave him out I just thought I was coping well with a painful job, but he made it seem like I had betrayed him and I can never put it right.I could understand if I'd got rid of anything but I simply took clothes off hangers and placed them in a case, nothing has really changed. I have apologised over and over and would never want to add to his pain, but I guess it's an example of how easy it is to misunderstand each other and get it wrong. We both hurt so much and I can hardly bear it when we get upset with each other, I'm terrified of losing him too. I read somewhere that so many marriages break up after a tragedy like this, but I've also read that those figures have been overestimated and that most couples see it through. We seem to be "getting over" the upset but we tiptoe round each other and have not finished clearing the room.We are like different people and I feel we have to almost start our marriage over again as we get used to the new  people we have become.Does anyone know what I mean?It isn't easy that's for sure.

Jamies bedroom will become a hallway/landing to the new extension and half his room will be absorbed into another room to make it larger.So it effectively disappears. This had not been an easy decision to make but we hope and pray we have done the right thing. I want to make the wall that was part of his room some kind of tribute to him maybe with canvas effect portraits of him. We are so fortunate to have many beautiful photos of him, thanks to a devoted girlfriend who was always taking pictures.

Love to you all

Anne

[misshimstill]

Hi, Anne.

The way you're doing the room sounds wonderful.  Putting the pictures on the wall of what had been his room sounds like a really good idea.  It's a way of opening another chapter without really having to completely close the book.  Keep us up on your progress there.

I'm sorry your husband felt so left out when you were taking care of Jamie's clothes.  What you said about needing to almost start over in your relationship reminds me of my relationship with my present husband.  With my repressed grief having come up after 30 years into my second marriage, my husband was pretty threatened.  I have had a hard time grieving and yet not excluding my present husband from my life as I grieved.  I feel like we've almost had to start over, too.  Maybe any kind of death can cause that upset in a family.  I don't know, but I'm sure it isn't rare for this kind of thing to occur.

My prayers are with you, as always - and to everyone on the thread.  ~Oneta

[daniellemom]

Anne,

The new addition to your home sounds great, the pictures sound wonderful.

I'm so sorry to hear about your husbands misgivens on Jamie's room. I'm sure he will forgive you. I also feel that my husband and I have to start over but in another way how can I he knows me better than anyone else and knows what I'm thinking and feeling about all the time. I'm proud of you for stating on his room. I still have not started packing up Danielle's room. I know it will really hard to do.

I will pray for you and your family.

P.S. I would be scared to death about any kind of earthquake. We do not have those where I live. I live in North Carolina and we talk about the weather when we get 3 or 4 inches of snow. LOL

Love and prayers always,

Sonya

[misshimstill]

Anne,  Me too (about the earthquakes).  Here in Texas we have bad thunderstorms and tornados which can be really bad, but they don't scare me, probably because I've lived with them all my life.  My daughter-in-law, who has always lived in California, isn't scared of earthquakes, but is scared of tornados.  I guess it's just what you're used to.    Oneta

[wyomingsal]

I  grew up in Southern California so I have experienced my share of earthquakes.   Honestly anything bigger then a 4 feels pretty scary.  Even a small quake feels huge when you are right at the epicenter.  When I felt the quaking start, I would always jump out of my bed and run to the door frame and wonder if this was the "big one" when California was supposed to fall into the ocean.  I was still there during the Northridge Earthquake in Southern California in 1994 and I think it was only a 6.4 but it did a huge amount of damage.  Our house was fine.  The wiseman builds his house apon the rock.    My parents must have been wise.  We lived in the Santa Monica Mountains which are on a good rock foundation.  In the valley close by they live on silt and sand and it magnified the shaking and caused much more damage.  Could grief be the same way?  When trials come, those of us who have Jesus as our foundation still suffer the shaking and trauma, but it isn't magnified to the same extent as people who have faulty foundations. 

I hope you all have a day full of God's peace and grace,

Sal

[misshimstill]

I think many of life's lessons can be learned from nature.  The Bible says, "All that can be shaken will be shaken and only that which can't be shaken will remain."  I'm not as good as Claudia about telling you where that's from, but I know something like that is in there.  I know my grief has "shaken" my faith almost to the very core.  I guess that's where it wasn't able to be shaken (at the core). 

[daniellemom]

Sal,

that makes a lot of sense to me. How was the young lady today that we prayed for yesterday? I've had her on my mind today.

[4everjoeysmom]

Hebrews 12:27 is where that Scripture verse is that speaks of the things that can be shaken (such as created things), and that which cannot (such as Jesus and the Kingdon of Heaven).  I like how the analogy was used with our grieving whilst upon the foundation of our Rock, Christ Jesus, and grieving on a quaking earth, so to speak...

I grew up in the midwest, where killer tornadoes were threatening.  A town 5 minutes from where my mom lives had half the town leveled before anyone realized a storm was coming...the siren failed to sound.  Scarey stuff!  Then I lived in North Carolina for 8 years, and there were hurricane floods that swallowed towns whole.  Now I am in Ecuador where there are volcano eruptions, earthquakes, and killer mudslides.  I guess i want to make sure and get all of the thrills of mother nature in this lifetime... 

Anne, I'm sure that your husband just had one of those tsunami waves of grief and emotion, and just didn't know how to process it.  I'm sure he feels terrible because of it.  There is a part in each of you that moves forward, and equally the hesitation and sorrow that comes with change and knowing that you can never go back...  I know it's so hard...  I do agree that there is a coming into new discoveries and a new sense of who we are in our relationships and marriages that defies all of the things ever read in books.  I mean, who could possibly predict each one's response to grief and how their partner will respond in return.  it isn't classic text book here.  We're all so unique.  And I think that's why i learn so much more from others, through their experiences as well as my own.

Sal, do let us know how the young lady is getting on when you are able.  It's a slow road to healing after something so traumatic, as we al lknow our own trauma and recovery...  She remains in my prayers...

Well, we are having a rare lightening and thunder storm here now, so I must go.  Peace and blessing on all, Claudia 

[wyomingsal]

We haven't been able to follow up with the young lady because at the last contact we were done medically with our follow up.  We sent her some information on post abortive healing and hope she will contact us about our post abortive healing program.  I think the advocate will still follow up with her one more time. 

We did have a couple in last Tuesday who left planning on aborting their beautiful 13 week baby.  We got to see the baby on the ultrasound and the baby's mouth opened and the little tongue stuck out.  We gave the mom a picture of the tongue sticking out when she left.  Her boyfriend was still adament that they have an abortion and she left saying that is what they would do.  Our advocate followed up today and the woman said she decided to parent this baby even though her boyfriend was against it.  We do have some happy and uplifting cases and most importantly, each woman hears about Jesus.  An advocate will follow up each month until the due date.

Sal

[misshimstill]

Thanks, Claudia!  I knew you would know where that scripture was!

Sal, I just applaud your efforts and the efforts of the crisis pregnancy place where you work.  So often pro-lifers just care about the baby, and I think there is some valid criticism of "us".  I have to put myself in the category because I used to think like that myself - until I started trying to minister to the women in that position.  So many of them are like the one you were telling us about whose boyfriend was still so adamant about aborting, even after seeing that sweet little baby stick its tongue out.  Men don't have those natural maternal feelings - maybe because they're not carrying that baby so close to their hearts. 

Claudia, you're so right on about the emotions that overtake people in grief.  And so right that we can learn from each other so much how to try to deal with these powerful emotions.  The pain we're all in is enormous!  It's a wonder any marriage stays intact under that kind of stress.

Talk to you all later.  The Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all today.  ~Oneta

[misshimstill]

Big "oops" here!! 

I had written something here, and then going back and rereading our posts I discovered I was confused about who had said what, so I've deleted what I had written.  I don't know how to completely delete the whole entry, though.  ~Oneta

[fujismum]

I've just got home from work and read the replies and am amazed to see all these references to foundations.Because it was my turn to lead the little prayer group  after work (first time Ive felt able to take such an active role since the tragedy) and as we have all this building work going on I felt led to read and speak on Matthew 7  about building on solid rock. Isn't that something! - and Sal it was your verse I based it all on.

Thank God for having Christ as our foundation, I might rock a bit but I am still in one piece, earthquake or not!

Thank you for your empathy about my upset with Mike, it is such a help to be able to share these experiences and know we are not alone.Claudia you are right I really think Mike was in a grip of a huge grief wave and acted out of character for a while there.  For so long he was very strong and collected, there was so much to "do" at first and now his grief is catching up with him.

 It has been 18 months since Jamie died, I could not have imagined moving his things before now and I certainly wouldn't be packing them now if it were not essential for the building work. I don't feel ready at all, but I have to do it for other reasons. We are all different and do what feels right for us, there is no blue print for any of us on this journey.What has everyone else done with their children's rooms/belongings?

It's Mothering Sunday this weekend in the UK - not an easy day for us, I don't think I can manage church that day and will go to Jamie's grave.Last year I bought myself a little gift that would have been in his price bracket and the kind of thing he would have chosen.It did help a bit by including him in the dayNot sure if I'll do it again- maybe- maybe not.

Love Anne

PS  Sonya 3-4 " snow would bring this country to a complete standstill. In fact 1" could do that!

[bigmikesmom]

Hi Everyone,

I am still here, reading, but don't always post.

Anne, I think that's a fantastatic way of redoing his room. I love the idea of the memory wall. I have not done a thing to Mike's room. It is a mess because I had to go clean out his dorm room and the coach gave me a big box of old uniforms, shoes, the stuff kids put on an outside wall of his dorm room. I packed all his clothes from the dorm room in suitcases, his sports duffel bags, and just put it all in his room. I wanted to one day but as I started, i saw his slippers and couldn't hardly breathe. One day, I will do it. My husband and I have been married 33 years and yes, it is very difficult. We are grieving completely different. I cannot share my feelings about Mike or talk about the accident . I go to a counselor and I have all of you to share with. I too read where the divorce rate after the death of a child is extremely exaggerated.I think, if you can accept that the other spouse, has to do what they have to do to get through the frief, you will be OK Don't take anything that our spouse says regarding the griefpersonal, LIKE WHAT mIKE SAID TO YOU. mY HUSBAND HAS SAID SOME PRETTY HURTFUL THINGS TO ME. i AM SURE THAT HE DIDN'T MEAN THEM THE WAY i TOOK THEM. Just keep loving and communicating. It's hard because sometimes I want to just be in a cacoon,away from everyone.

Sal,

I totally agree with you and everyone else that we have to bear "this storm". I know there is A Christian song titled that or something like it. I was once told, in a class, that a real Christian is one who makes it through a trial. I know it was said more eloquently but I know you all know what I mean.

As for me, I am still "hanging in there" I did start a very part time job, as I told you all before, I am an RN and I am starting teaching the STNA class-state tested nurse aide. In Ohio, the nurses aides have to take this course before they take the state test.God Bless you all.

Love,

Patti (Big MikesMom)

[bigmikesmom]

Hi Everyone,

I am still here, reading, but don't always post.

Anne, I think that's a fantastatic way of redoing his room. I love the idea of the memory wall. I have not done a thing to Mike's room. It is a mess because I had to go clean out his dorm room and the coach gave me a big box of old uniforms, shoes, the stuff kids put on an outside wall of his dorm room. I packed all his clothes from the dorm room in suitcases, his sports duffel bags, and just put it all in his room. I wanted to one day but as I started, i saw his slippers and couldn't hardly breathe. One day, I will do it. My husband and I have been married 33 years and yes, it is very difficult. We are grieving completely different. I cannot share my feelings about Mike or talk about the accident . I go to a counselor and I have all of you to share with. I too read where the divorce rate after the death of a child is extremely exaggerated.I think, if you can accept that the other spouse, has to do what they have to do to get through the frief, you will be OK Don't take anything that our spouse says regarding the griefpersonal, LIKE WHAT mIKE SAID TO YOU. mY HUSBAND HAS SAID SOME PRETTY HURTFUL THINGS TO ME. i AM SURE THAT HE DIDN'T MEAN THEM THE WAY i TOOK THEM. Just keep loving and communicating. It's hard because sometimes I want to just be in a cacoon,away from everyone.

Sal,

I totally agree with you and everyone else that we have to bear "this storm". I know there is A Christian song titled that or something like it. I was once told, in a class, that a real Christian is one who makes it through a trial. I know it was said more eloquently but I know you all know what I mean.

As for me, I am still "hanging in there" I did start a very part time job, as I told you all before, I am an RN and I am starting teaching the STNA class-state tested nurse aide. In Ohio, the nurses aides have to take this course before they take the state test.God Bless you all.

Love,

Patti (Big MikesMom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi All,  I just wanted to share part of one of my recent devotionals with you.  As we journey onward in this life, through pain and trials, through light and hope, let us keep our eyes fixed on His Promise...  We can know that ultimately WE WILL BE RESCUED.    Love you all, Claudia

(excerpt from A Slice of Infinity, rzim.org)

The Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit as the “comforter,” the one who comes alongside of us (John 14:16, 26). This is the same Spirit the apostle Paul tells us “intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words,” and “intercedes for the saints according to the will of God” (Romans 8:26b-27). Therefore, when we face difficulties, when our prayers seemingly go unanswered, we have the promise that we don’t ever face life’s difficult circumstances alone, but God longs to come near to us and to come alongside us with the comforting presence of God’s Spirit. M. Craig Barnes former pastor of the National Presbyterian Church adds, “Sometimes life gets overwhelming, and we realize we could use a little help. So we pray for our health to get better, for our marriage to work out, for success in our work that has taken a turn for the worse. There is nothing wrong in praying for these things, but they are not what our salvation is about. Don’t expect Jesus to save us by teaching us to depend on the things we are afraid of losing! He loves us too much to let our health, marriage, or work become the savior of our lives. He will abandon every crusade that searches for salvation from anything or anyone other than God. So he delays, he watches as we race down dead-end streets, he lets our mission du jour crash and burn. To receive Jesus as Savior means recognizing him as our only help. Not our only help for getting what we want. But our only true help.”(2)

God’s promise to be present with us through the power of the Holy Spirit is God’s eternal answer to all our prayers. It is God’s “yes” even if God answers our specific requests with “no.” Ultimately, as we grow in Christian discipleship, God wants us to find comfort, not in dependence on the things of this world, but in God’s presence with us and alongside us through the Holy Spirit.

[msroderskie]

Hello all!   Claudia, I love that quote from M Craig Barnes.  It contains the same idea I've tried to express when I give my testimony.  Life is really ALL ABOUT GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.  It's not about so many dozens of things by which we are usually sidetracked!  The only way I was able to really internalize that lesson was through losing a son -- then the lesson was driven home even more by losing a second son.  What else could possibly matter more than eternity?  Yet we so easily lose track of that fact, don't we?

On the subject of dreams, soon after each of my sons died I had a few dreams of them.  Usually they were younger, 5 or 6 years old, and I was hugging them.  There were often no words spoken at all -- just hugs that were so profound that I felt as if Phil or Matt had been present in the dream when I awoke.  It did seem like a lovely gift from God whenever that happened.  

Anne, I hope that you and your husband can grieve alongside each other and find ways to connect in that grieving as well.  It must be so hard.   I am blessed with a second husband who has never had children, who supports me in any way he can in my grief.   He was closer to my second son Matt than with my first son Phil, so when Matt also died, this had a greater impact on my husband, Steve.  It has been very hard on him, even though he was only a stepdad for a few years to Matt.  I don't know what state I would be in if I were still with my ex-husband, father of the boys, and having to deal with his mental instability.  He ran into the hospital screaming "show me my son or I'll kill myself!" the night Matt died.  He was always an unstable influence in our lives.  Do pray for him and his new family.  He desperately needs to respond to Christ.

Abortion is truly a type of holocaust. (sp?)  Before I knew Christ I had two abortions.  The first did not seem to effect me much emotionally, since I was in the throes of a rabid secular feminism, with all the blindness that entails.  However, when I had the second abortion, when I was beginning to consider that God may exist and beginning to read the Word, that was more difficult for me.  But I went through with it anyway -- thoroughly for convenience sake.   I think the bottom line is this -- modern Western society is in a general state of denial concerning the nature of abortion.  We don't want to admit what an abortion is - destruction of God-given life.   Some of us defend the "right" to destroy a viable fetus barbarically,while we save equally viable preemies with the latest medical equipment -- true societal schizophrenia.   Bless the people who dedicate themselves to working for abortion alternative clinics.  Theirs is an important ministry.   I thank and praise my Father God because He has forgiven me for the many sins of my life, abortion being one of them.

Anne, the idea of portraits on a memorial wall for Jamie is lovely.  One of my favorite photos of the boys is one where Phil, at about 5 years old, is holding his newborn brother Matt, looking down at him.  I had it blown up and printed in black and white.  There's something very touching about it.  I have thought of doing drawings of my own from photos as well, but would have to brush up on very rusty artistic leanings.   

Sal, I loved the way you equated geological facts about earth tremors with the idea of spiritual foundations.  So true!  And poetically beautiful.  When it comes to earthquakes I've only experienced a mild one 4.2 Richter, while living in the Philippines.  It was very spooky, because I thought the capiz lamp above my TV was swaying in the breeze until I realized THERE WAS NO BREEZE!  It was spooky to know that the earth was rocking underneath me.   Also in the Philippines I've experienced a typhoon (same as a hurricane, but called a typhoon in the Pacific).  Around here, in western New York, we have blizzards and ice storms sometimes, but at least we don't have to worry about our houses being flattened.  The few tornados we get around here can't go too far or do much damage.  They are generally small and short-lived. 

Finally -- Father, in Jesus name I ask that You will bless all of my grieving brothers and sisters who come to this site.  Please help each of us to know Your presence moment by moment, as we walk this side of the veil.  

IN the love of Christ,  Rody

 

[mikesmomrs]

Claudia:  (I usually post on the general "adult child" thread, but frequently I will read through this one, as I find comfort in the postings based on our Christian foundations)

This quote from your last post

"God’s promise to be present with us through the power of the Holy Spirit is God’s eternal answer to all our prayers. It is God’s “yes” even if God answers our specific requests with “no.” "

has rung in the ears of my heart so many times...I am saddened when I have heard people say that they didn't know where God was when they prayed for some particular thing to happen and it didn't, whether it was as important as helping someone to live on or be healed from physical illness, or as minor as asking for help in finding something;  the feeling seemed the same:  if God doesn't answer my prayer (if my loved one died anyway, or I still can't find my ring), then how can you tell me He truly loves me?  I have always believed that God always answers our prayers---but sometimes the answer is indeed "no."  the ONLY thing He promises is that He will always be here with us and be our strength through whatever trials we have...carry us when we cannot stand on our own, and that is what carries us through life...that strength that only comes from Him.  He is with us through it all, He is our comfort, our "core."  

love and peace,

Carol  mikesmomrs

[4everjoeysmom]

Yes, Carol.  What you've said is so true.

There is a Christian song, written and performed by Natalie Grant, called Held.  It goes like this, and I think it sums up beautifuly my grief and healing journey...

Two months is too little

They let him go

They had no sudden healing

To think that providence would

Take a child from his mother while she prays

Is appalling

Who told us we’d be rescued?

What has changed and why should we be saved from nightmares?

We’re asking why this happens

To us who have died to live?

It’s unfair

Chorus:

This is what it means to be held

How it feels when the sacred is torn from your life

And you survive

This is what it is to be loved

And to know that the promise was

When everything fell we’d be held

This hand is bitterness

We want to taste it, let the hatred NUMB our sorrow

The wise hands opens slowly to lilies of the valley and tomorrow

(Chorus) ...

This is what it means to be held

How it feels when the sacred is torn from your life

And you survive

This is what it is to be loved

And to know that the promise was

When everything fell we’d be held

Bridge:

If hope is born of suffering

If this is only the beginning

Can we not wait for one hour watching for our Savior?

(Chorus)

This is what it means to be held

How it feels when the sacred is torn from your life

And you survive

This is what it is to be loved

And to know that the promise was

When everything fell we’d be held

[bigmikesmom]

Claudia, I have the video of that song on my myspace profile page. I sent it to all Mike's friends and mine too! It says so much.

Patti-bigmikesmom

[msroderskie]

Hello all,   It's been three days since anyone has posted on this thread.  I know there are other threads out there, but I never visit them, 'cause this is the only thread that automatically e-mails me when anyone adds to it.  Anyhow, it feels a little lonely, but I must write something because today is the seventh anniversary of my first son Phil's death. 

Phil was a funny kid.  He had his own ideas from which no one could dissuade him.  When he was about 5 years old, he had this notion that if I constructed his peanut butter sandwich in the "wrong" order it would not taste right.  If I put the peanut butter side on top of the jelly side, instead of vice versa, he would insist the sandwich was ruined and he couldn't POSSIBLY eat it!  I would say, "Look, Phil, I turn the sandwich over - now the jelly is on top.  It's fine!"  But this absolutely did not suffice.  Through some Phil-invented culinary law, determination of flavor was in the ASSEMBLING of the sandwich.  What a kid.

Once I discovered a bunch of jars of water sitting around Phil's room.  I think he was about 7 years old at the time.  I even found a jar or two tucked in his dresser drawers.  When I asked him about it he said, "Oh, that's my water collection."  There's just no explanation for that one.

Phil loved Mr. Bean, and Louis Armstrong.  Later today I'll listen to "Wonderful World", "Gone Fishin'" and "Sittin' in the Sun".   And I'll probably take a few moments to sing harmony with Billy Joel's song "Lullaby".  That's a beautiful tune about how parents and children are forever part of each other.  It's very hard to sing it, but it's my traditional tribute to the boys.  And yet, my Lord Jesus says that I am to love Him above my children, above my parents and all other human beings.  So that I choose to do.  If I never see my Philly and Matt again, if for some reason they were not saved, then I have to accept that.  I believe that I will see them though.  I believe the Lord's mercy was great toward them and that they will be the first to greet me when I cross into eternal life.  "A bruised reed He shall not break."

Love in Christ,  Rody

[joshuasbro]

Rody,

I have not even made it to our one year anniversary of losing my son Joshua yet so I cant even begin to know how strong or softer the emotions are for you at this time, but I know that it still must be hard even after 7 years.  7 seems to be a special number in the Bible.  I hope that God gives you extra peace and comfort during this aniversary of missing your dear son. 

In regards to loving the Lord more then you children....I am still having a hard time with that one.  I know once in Heaven it will be so.  But I have come to a place where I think Jesus understands and can forgive me for at this point wanting to see my children even more then Him.  Why has Heaven become so important to me this year??  Because my beautiful son who I love more then any other person except my other children is there waiting for me.  I think in time I be able to be as excited to see our Lord.  Sometimes I have glimpses of the amazment and wonder we might experience seeing Him.  Like the song, "I can only Imagine."  I have actually even prayed to our dear Lord to forgive my impertinence for wanting to see Joshua more.  Perhaps the the 7 years helps with that.  I thank the Lord that he has helped you to truly understand that it is He who is the All important center of eternity. 

God's peace to you and your family,

Sal

[wyomingsal]

oops I just posted below on my son's name.  :shock:  Sorry.  I didn't mean to confuse everyone. 

[msroderskie]

Dear Sal,

I totally understand exactly what you are saying.  It is not natural for us to love God more than our children, especially for us Moms who had those children begin life within us.  I have often asked for God's forgiveness because I long to see my deceased sons even more than I long to see Him.  It's so normal for us to have a new focus on heaven, because we want to see our kids again!   It's taken a lot of time, thinking, praying and struggling for me to get to a point where I can say, if, just if, my sons are forever gone, I have to accept that.  And there's no telling if I will be able to say that with any sense of conviction tomorrow, or for that matter, twenty minutes from now. Our emotions are changing and not to be trusted.  But I can keep the principals of God in mind, such as loving Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength, and keep aiming in that direction as I grieve for my sons. 

My forever hope is that I WILL see my sons in glory with the Lord.  I guess my tendency is to constantly check myself that I am in the faith, because it is so darn easy to wander from the path, as I have found out.  You are doing well Sal, in keeping your faith in God and asking Him to help you through each day.  He doesn't expect us to suddenly be perfect, but He is in the process of bringing us into ultimate perfectness some day.   He that began a good work in you, will see it through to completion.  Praise Him for His great faithfulness. 

Love in Christ,  Rody

[daniellemom]

Rody,

I will be praying for you today as you have reached the 7 year mark. It will be only 5 months for me on the 11th. I feel heaven will just be a little sweeter since Danielle is there waiting on me. I don't really mean waiting on me I know she is not sitting there waiting on me she is doing her job and prasing the Lord. Danielle just got the prize before me so heaven is just a little sweeter and closer to my heart. I miss her so very much with every passing day but she is with the Lord and I have accepted that, but like you said will I be able to say that in 5 minutes, not sure.

Prayers always!

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Rody, Sal & Sonya, I am so with you on the bandwagon to Heaven...  The only thoughtthat truly convicts me and reminds me to be thankful to Jesus with a desire to see Him foremost when I arrive there is simply IF IT WERE NOT FOT HIM, there would be no salvation, no reward, no looking forward to being reunited in heaven, His glory, etc....  It's an endles slist when I start a sentence with the phrase If it weren't for Jesus....  But I SO MISS my Joey.  I cannot wait to see him.  I had a strange and long dream last night that I was leading Joey's birth father (who never met Joey) around and sharing details, like a walk into and through Joey's life, I think.  But I can't remember much of it.  I find it strange that I would even dream if this man, except for perhaps there was something unfinished that needed to be done.  I remember feeling mostly pity and sadness for him when I shared that Joey had died.   I had the gift of knowing Joey.  He did not...

I have a guest here this week and we have been on the go seemingly non stop, in addition to my cooking and cleaning in between laps.  So I feel very busy and disconnected this week.  I've been thinking of you all and praying for you.  And Rody, you are on my heart today especially.  I love that part of Phil's character that you described.  Collecting water, and melding PB&J flavors--too funny.  My son Patrick LOVED Mr. Bean too when he was growing up.  We must have watched every show.  That thought brings back so many memories...  Thanks for sharing your memories.  It's a rish experience like no other, not only grieving with other parents, but also sharing in the intimate details of their lives and memory.  It's precious beyond words, and I am ever grateful.

Yesterday while we were out, we heard that a family we work with often lost their 18 year old son/brother in a drowning accident almost 2 weeks ago.  We are very saddened by this, especially I am, and so I am praying about how God will lead me to minister to this family, especially the parents.  Hamilton, the 14 year old son has spent a couple of weeks out here with us on occasion, sort of our spiritual son so to speak.  We are very close to them, and they are believers, so we are thankful that God will too be their guide.  But it always throws me right back to the day of my own tragedy when I have to meet a mom for the FIRST TIME AFTER the loss.  She is not the same mom I saw a month ago...  she is forever changed.  My heart is running over with sorrow for her....

ALso, my mom is in dire straits, and being so far away has its challenges.  All I can do is pray, support and advise, but from a distance.  Her husband is currently in a nursing home with alzheimer's, but he is acting out beyond what they have the capacity to handle.  They are discharging him Tuesday by force, and there is apparently no place else for him right now (no other facility space available, so they say), so he will have to go home and my mom is afraid and not equipped to handle him emotionally or physically.  She says he is suicidal and threatening to her and their pets verbally, when he has his spells of rage, that she fears what he will physically do when it happens at home.  I am praying for her and ask for your prayers as well.  This situation is so difficult, to say the least....

I have to run now and get a shower before my guest shows up at my dorr to head out for our noon lunch appointment.  She currently is out on a short ministry trek with my husband.  I have a lot to juggle right now...  please lift me up as well, if you don't mind.  I have been feeling the gamet of emotion this week........  My poor husband has to deal with me, and I honestly don't know how he does it....  Love to all in Christ, blessings & hugs, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hi, gals.

I haven't posted for several days.  Last night I tried to post, but I wasn't able to log in.  Don't know why.

I completely understand the desire to see your children, you believe, more than you long to see Jesus.  I've had the same thought regarding my husband.  But I really think some of the guilt that goes with that thought is from the Enemy.  I don't really believe  in the deepest part of our being, in our spirits, we really want to see anyone more than Jesus.  When I'm thinking about the people I love who are in heaven, I am so drawn to see them, I miss them so much, and it feels like - at that moment - that I want to see them more than God.  But when I'm in worship or prayer or something like that, I know that my deepest love is the Lord.  I know that the face I will most want to see in heaven is His.  I'm sure all of you are the same way.  But you're mothers!  MOTHERS!  Of course you want to see your babies, even if they're not babies anymore.  They're always our babies, aren't they, no matter how old they get. 

When my mother-in-law died, (I'll never forget this) in the message the pastor gave at her funeral, he talked about how much sweeter Heaven becomes as each person we love goes there.  That is so true.  I have many family members in heaven - two brothers, both parents, parents-in-law who I loved, my sweet husband, and many friends and other family members.  Heaven has become such a sweet word to me, and I know that Heaven is my true home.  That's all it is with you girls.  You DO love Jesus more than anyone in your lives.  You talk about Him all the time!  And you love your children... of course you do.  So you want to be with them again.  But when you die, when it's your turn to get to go home, as much as you want to see those children you had to give up much too soon in this life, the one you really want to see is the Lord Jesus Himself.  Don't ever think you don't.  

Blessings and prayers to each of you in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, was buried and was resurrected, the "first born from the dead" to give us a little idea what our resurrection bodies will be like and who gained victory over this horrible thing called Death, ~Oneta

[mattewmess]

Hi Oneta,

Excellent post. A whole different perspective. Heaven truly is different for me now because Matt is there. Interestingly, if an older person dies of a painful illness that was thought to have lived a full life, we say "what a blessing that they are in heaven" and we feel some relief and almost joy for them. They are well now, they are at peace ...... But now that it is my child I am thinking ... No, I want to watch over him, not you God. What does that say about what I really believe. Another post asked if we really want them (at any age) to return to us as they were - ill and in pain. Is it better for us or for them? I look forward to the day when I feel real peace that he is with God. The day when my eyes don't sting, my stomach doesn't burn, my heart doesn't ache, and when my friends tell me I look like I didn't sleep again though I did a few hours. Right now I am still in the stage of I want what I want, not what HE wants, or maybe even what Matt wanted? It is good to read the posts and see that a lot of you are closer to wanting what God wants. There is hope for me. Take care, Terry

[misshimstill]

Well, Terry, don't beat yourself up over wishing you could have had him longer.  I had a brother die at 13.  I know, that even though when he died, he was no longer suffering as he did when he was ill, we all still wished he could have been cured or healed or whatever and been able to stay with us.  I know my parents never really got over losing him.  I lost my husband when he was only 25.  That was much too young for him to die and not get to see his daughter born and grow up, much too soon for me to lose him after only 2 years of marriage.  We're only human, ya know.  God knows it, too.  He knows our hearts even better than we ourselves do. 

I don't know how long it's been since you lost Matthew, but even if it's been years, you will aways miss him.  Some day you will feel more peace about it and come to more of a place of acceptance, but you'll never not miss him.  I think all the other mothers here would agree with that. 

So give yourself a BIG break and realize that God knows how broken your heart is.  He knows and he cares and, I think, he even grieves with you for your loss, for your pain.  None of that negates the things we were saying about heaven.  It's just our earthly perspective.  We can try to have God's perspective, but it will never be perfectly like God's because we're not God and we're not home yet. 

Blessings to you and may God heal your broken heart.  ~Oneta

[daniellemom]

Terry,

Welcome to this tread, I hope it will bring you some comfort reading and posting with us; it has helped me a lot. I miss Danielle everyday all day long but not for one minute would I bring her back to this earth. It's really hard to say that because as a mother I would bring her back but like all(most)mothers I always tried to do what was best for Danielle and I know that the best thing for Danielle is the Lords will and his will has been done and because of that Danielle is at peace and I try very hard to find peace in that. It's a hard long road but I will get there one day, when I reach heavens gates!! For now I'm leaning on the Lord to see me through this trail.

Danielle Leigh Wrenn!!!

I just like typing her name and saying it (Sorry)

Prayers to everyone,

Sonya

[msroderskie]

Hello everyone, and welcome Terry.  I thank you all for your thoughtful posts.  On this thread there is always sharing that seems to help somehow.  The Lord just keep useing our sharing to help each other.  He is so good! 

I certainly agree that we never stop missing our lost loved ones, especially if we've lost children.  I never know when some innocuous happening in life will trigger grief feelings, though I've reached a point (5 and 7 years respectively since my sons' deaths) where these times of emotional breakdown are shorter and manageable.  For example, on the highway I'll see a car of the same make and color as the one Phil drowned in and that's always difficult.  I'm sure you all have moments like that. 

Sonya, it's so sweet that you like to write your daughter's name.  Don't apologize!  As a kid Phil used to sign birthday cards, even to family members, with his full name --- Philip R. Albach.  Just another quirky thing he did.  Sweet little Phil was often on the receiving end of loving ribbing, as you can tell.   

Claudia, my heart goes out to your friends who lost their 18-year-old through drowning.  Lord, please lift up and strengthen this family right now.  I will pray for them and for your Mom's situation.  How is she doing?

Love to all of you, in Christ,  Rody 

[mattewmess]

Thank you, Rody for your post. I cannot even imagine losing 2 children, though I am going through 2 losses at once. My husband was disappearing before Matt died, but now is pretty much gone. He was always a loner and I learned to deal with it, I became more independent and self reliant, as the kids turned into teens, he couldn't handle the teen stuff and so checked out more. Since Matt's death he has pretty much checked out. He was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthrits two years ago and I understand that the meds and the illness can change a personality. I have lots of friends and some family in town, but it is hard to deal with two losses simultaneously. I try really hard to just keep everything as 'normal' as possible for our two other children. I guess that keeps me going. I have an old house which always needs repairs and I like yard work, so I am busy. I hate to admit it, but I miss my son more than my husband. My husband probably knows that. A mother's love is so different than any other love I have ever known. On one hand I am so glad I experienced it and on the other, it means a lot of heartbreak..... forever. A blessing and a curse.... I am worried about my other two kids now, try not to show it, but it is there. I am amazed at your strength. Terry

[4everjoeysmom]

I have been running around like a nut this past week with our visitor here, getting up at 6, out of the house by 8 or 9--after cooking breakfast, doing dishes, showering, feeding dogs, etc, out all day, back homw to feed dogs, feed us, clean up, and toss my tired self into bed at 8 or 9 completely exhausted.  Our friend left yesterday, my husband is away until tomorrow, and the quiet sets in once again.  It's peculiar, isn't it?  How I should feel relieved for the quiet and rest.  But once everyone left yesterday morning I got hit with a good measure of the blues.  Of course I shed a few tears saying good-bye to my dear friend from home.  Truly having her here was like a breath of home.  Maybe that's why I got so sad.  So, I did a few basic chores and then went to bed with a movie and a book.  So much for yesterday.

Today I have been catching up on writing some correspondence, just stuffed myself with spaghetti, did a couple of loads of laundry, played with the pups, and now again at 2:00 in the afternoon I am ready to crawl into bed.  Maybe it's just my body trying to catch up on rest.  I just feel so blue....  do you all fin dthat when you are run down, tired, hit with an emotional moment (like my good-bye yesterday) that the blues set in more, leaving us to think more of our pain and loss?  What say you all?

Oh!  My friend brought me the double DVD set called Matthew (it's a production of the Book of Matthew by chapter and verse with actors and a very unique story telling production/narrative), and actually it's not as hokey as a lot of those $5 at the Christian bookstore videos.  Has anyone else seen it?  It can be shown in several languages.  I am thinking this may be a good Bible stiudy tool--make things interesting by showing segments of the video each week and having discussion.  It seems people are more apt to retain what they watch over what they read.  Just a thought....

I've been waiting to hear from my mom.  I spoke to her several nights ago and the situation has not changed.  Tomorrow is supposed to be when the nursing home is planning to evict her husband.  We shall see....

Terry, I know how I felt at the 6 month mark.  I felt like I was losing my mind, my self, nothing made sense, and I just didn't care much about much.  Well, that's not entirely true, but I certainly had to work very hard (to the point of physical and emotional exhaustion) to even breathe.  I cried for months straight.  I didn;t go anywhere, didn't shower or dress for days on end, sat here and posted like mad for a while and then nothing for a while...  there was no method to my madness.  It was just a time of deep mourning and grief, and IT IS NORMAL.  Don't feel so distraught and discouraged solely because you are where you are.  We've all been there.  The good news is that there one day will be a past tense for you.  You will always grieve, but you will not always feel so intensely filled with sorrow and pain.  I think about you a lot, envision Matthew having surfed through Heaven's gate, and pray for you that God will lift you and show you something very intimate of Himself that will carry you through this time.  Love and Hugs, Claudia

[mattewmess]

Hi Claudia,

Thanks for your post. I went to a 'cell' group tonight. A minister that knew Matt because his son was friends with Matt called me. I was thinking that I would stick out like a sore thumb, first I was raised a Catholic and it was a Baptist church, second my story is the story of Matt. But as I have heard, the Lord puts people together for a reason and where two or more meet, there is God. The minister put the four women together and then I discovered that two had adult children with bipolar illness, one was being treated and doing fair, one was in rehab for the 5th or 6th time. It was amazing how similar our stories were. We knew each others fears, concerns, heart ache, etc. Listening to them reminded me of what my life was like, how stressful, how every time the phone rang I prayed that Matt was OK. I tried to tell my husband about it and how helpful it was to be in community, to connect, but he remained cool. I realize that you can only invite someone to church, a group, etc. On a good note, I am feeling good about my other two adult children, Meg took her boyfriend with her to see her psychiatrist and he was very open to it. Darrell, my eldest, is much more intelligent than I am in so many ways, he says - 'mom, just be here now, be OK, I need you in my life now'. He is only 25 but we have had so many great talks and he understands and forgives so much. Sometimes as a parent you have to wait so long for your kids to understand what you were trying to do and why and forgive you for the mistakes that you tried hard not to make, but did anyway.  The thread is very helpful,  thanks for putting together this site. Good night, sleep well. Terry