Grief & Healing from a Christian-Biblical Worldview

[wyomingsal]

Terry,

My husband struggles with bipolar disorder as did my 10 y/o son Joshua who died last summer.   I worry about my living children...my 9 y/o is struggling with depression and I  worry it could be a precurser to bipolar disorder because it often has a genetic componant.  Many people in the church are ignorant about mental illness and attribute the emotional instability to weakness in the person, lack of faith, demonic possession, etc.  I have been so thankful that I am attending a wonderful church with people who love my husband and don't look down on him for his struggles.  Even when he was committed into the state hospital last spring, our pastor was concerned about supporting him throughout his recovery and building up his self esteem rather then tearing him down.  I hope you can find some good support and can also be a good support for the ladies in your group who have family with bipolar disorder.    I will tell you that my son was definitly the center of attention having bipolar.  When he felt good he was so much fun.    I wish with all my heart their was some medical technology that could fix the disorder.  I spent Friday fasting and praying (something I have not done before....I had a hard time not eating by about dinner time.  Wow!!! Jesus fasted 40 days!!!) .   I was praying specifically for wisdom on how to help my 9 y/o son with the depression and for healing for our family from this mental affliction.  I hate it...but feel powerless to help.  I hate the meds and and trial and error methods to "fix" the illness.  The meds hurt my son Joshua more then they helped him.  We had finally found something to help Joshua feel better but I think it almost sent him a little to up and he was impulsive which led to his death.  Sorry....Here I am rambling away.  I do that a lot these days.  All I know is that even the children that die from addictions/ mental illness/depression/drunk driving....They are loved and wanted and the pain of losing them is just as hard.  I would bring my boy back in an instant if God would allow it.    I know God knows best and my boy is happy....I sure do miss him though. 

Claudia,

I do find that any emotional upset leads me deeper into grieving again.  Even monthly hormone cycles seem to affect my grief.  I have found myself wallowing in despair and sadness after feeling like I was doing ok and have found it often was the few days before menstruation.  If my husband makes me upset...I mourn Josh.   If my kids are fighting and I am tired....I mourn Josh.  It gives me a little understanding of my husband's bipolar    How just a hormone fluctuation can turn me into a basket case of grief.  I am praying that God will surround the situation with you mom and her husband.  His will be done in this whole situation.  Let us know how things turn out.  If she has to bring him home.  I would think they would have an obligation to find a safe place for him to stay.  But I could be wrong.  There are a lot of factors I am sure involved in the decision. 

 

May God's peace and blessings fill your heart and life,

Sal

[mattewmess]

Dear Sal,

Thank you for your note. It is so hard to know what to do with mental illness, even the literature is unclear. My eldest has a mild mood disorder but is a health nut and doing well. My husband probably has what Matt had, they were so similar. It is hard because the drama with Matt continues in my husband. He went to a psychiatrist that said he does not have a mood disorder, he is a doctor, and he knows what is best. The rest of us have been more open and are getting help. It is so difficult to grieve and still deal with the same drama. I never know how my husband might be, Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hyde, and it can be exhausting. Right now he thinks I am mourning 'wrong' and doesn't understand my keeping a distance from him. I already am working with mental illness at work, helping our kids, grieving, and am too taxed to deal with unneccessary drama. He is not a bad person, I don't even think he really gets what it is like for the people around him. I continue to be his friend and stay calm no matter what and keep any contact limited to a family thing with the kids involved. He is more mindful when they are around. I have found my biggest problem to be anxiety and could not sleep if it were not for the Christian tapes I play when I wake up. I do hope that Matt is great, I miss him, but I did not want him to put anyone through what I have gone through. Matt was very sensitive, it would have broken his heart, it did to hurt people, even if he didn't mean to. I really miss him, it was a good day when he was in it, no matter what. He was my 'Sunshine' too. I kept thinking, let him get to 21 yrs., let his brain mature, let him find Jesus, etc. This 6 month mark is tough. I keep thinking I certainly will die from this. My heart still hurts everyday. I look so much older than last year or at least I feel it. I am glad you guys are out there, but sorry too.

The Johns Hopkins helicopter "Lifeline" for medical transports (usually kids) just landed on the hospital roof as I was driving past. I am so sad.

Take care, Terry

[daniellemom]

To everyone,

I hope eveything is going as well as expected.

I'm finding that even the little things in life throw me for a loop. My Mom called yesterday morning and told me my Dad was taken to the hospital for chest pains. Now before Danielle went to heaven I would have been upset but not like this. All I could think of was here we go again just 5 months and here we go again. My mind was like I wonder if they will bury Daddy where Danielle is at. What will Grandma do without her only son? My Dad is a truck driver so he was about 3.5 hours away from home so we went down there and I think he is going to be OK. They are doing test, one stress test, and EKG's every 3-4 hours and I think he is going to be able to come home this afternoon. But when we got the call about Danielle being in an accident all the way there I couldn't think of anything so I said the Lord's prayer, That's the prayer I say when I'm really upset or my mind will not let me pray anything else. Well yesterday I started to say it then I stopped myself, that's what I prayed the day Danielle passed away, I can't do that so I just prayed the best I could for Daddy, the doctors, Mama and my whole family. I really think I've lost my mind.

Claudia,

I hope your Mom and Greg are doing OK, did they find Greg a new place to go or did they send him home, I continue to pray for his will in their case.

Sorry this is so long, but thanks for listening.

[wyomingsal]

Sonya,

I'm so glad it looks like your Dad will be able to come home from the hospital.  I think for those of us who have been through the recent trauma of losing a child, it is normal to experience heightened fear and anxiety when somone is ill. 

I think about  growing up in Southern California.  We had lots of earthquakes.  In early 1994 we had a giant earthquake in Northridge.  I awoke in pitch black to the violent shaking and ran to the doorway in my room and saw bursts of flashing light as the electrical transformers blew up outside.  We had little damage, but I was scared at the time that this might be the "big one."  Many people lost there lives in that quake.  Soon after I took a job in Arizona and worked in a hospital.  When the life flight helicopter lifted off it would send a vibration/sound through the building?  That vibration would send my adrenaline going into overtime.  It was like the early vibrations of an earthquake.  I would freeze in shock until I realized it was just the helicopter.  My body reacted without me even thinking about it.  My heartbeat was racing and I was ready for a crisis.  No one else had experienced earthquakes like I had so they didn't have the same reaction. 

 Your body and mind have been traumatized by death.  It is real...it can happen...it did happen.  When you receive the same signals...my dad is going to hospital...your body reacts with all the same responses from losing your beloved child.  Over time as I got used the helicopter vibrations I relaxed and stopped responding in that fight/flight mannor.  But it took time and experience for me to slowly adapt back to a non-crisis mode.  May God's peace and love comfort you and calm your heart and spirit through this period of grieving and missing your Dannielle.  I ask God's healing for your father...for his heart and spirit Lord, and whatever is causing his chest pain.  God's will's be done...Amen.

Sal

[daniellemom]

Sal,

Thanks for your kind words and wisdom.

How's your husband doing after his knee suregery?

[wyomingsal]

Jeff's knee seems to be healing fairly well.  He has been up walking and lifting and doing much more then he should be doing.   He will always live with some chronic pain from his original injuries and multiple surgeries.  (Sounds like us emotionally   )   Thank goodness we can look forwards to a perfect grief free eternity. 

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya,  I echo Sal's prayer for you, your family, and your dad...

I talked to my mom last night.  It has been so hard trying to reach her.  I can imagine my phone bill will be astronomical this month...  anyway, she said the home where Greg was did release him Tuesday and sent him to another place that is about a half hour from her home, so not so far.  They at first tried to send him 3 hours away and my mom fought that like mad.  The advocate woman that I recommended my mom call (from and Alzheimer organization) has been of little to no help.  Mom just finally got sick of being "badgered" by the nursing home, so she started calling around herself and knew this closer facility would take him.  The social worker at the home where he was, was shocked when mom called her on the carpet and told her that she was a lier and did nothing to try and place him reasonably.  Mom got her wish, as she had a rep from the new home there to meet with the former one, and so far all is working out.  Greg is situated now in a facility that has an Alzheimers/Dimensia unit with lock-down and good care.  The only issue that has him in an uproar right now, besides not being able to go home, is that the room is shared (divided by a half wall) and his new roommate snores.  Greg has been acting out very hatefully and that is upsetting to mom, but she is dealing with everything remarkably strong.  She has a couple of women nearby that have been of tremendous help, and I thank God for them.  There is no way that mom can ever take Greg home and care for him at this stage, and unfortunately it doesn't look like things will change unless God hands down a miracle.  A doctor was supposed to visit today for a new evaluation, so next time I talk to mom I will know more.  Thanks so much for taking time from your own grief and sorrow to pray for me and my family.  It's humbling to say the least, and so very thankfully received.  As they commonly say here in Ecuador when someone gives to another, "Dios le Page!", pronounced Dee-Ose Lay Pahgay, which means May God Repay You!  Dios le Bendiga, May God Bless You!  Love, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hello everyone.  I've been away from home for a week so missed the thread and everyone's posts.  Been reading them this morning.  So many good things being shared that are helpful and wise.  I tried to make some notes so I can remember who said what.  (My brain doesn't retain like it used to.  )

Sal, the analagy of the earthquake eruption you experienced is such a good example of how our bodies react to things that happen that feel like something bad we've experienced before.  Sonya, you're not going crazy.  (or if you are, we all are...)  Maybe we've been through enough to make a person go crazy if not for the stabilizing presence of the Lord in our lives, but at the present we're not crazy.  You've been through a tremendous trauma, as Sal said, and you're still recovering from it.  I had the same thoughts over and over (of going crazy) when I was deep in grief.  My family assured me I wasn't, but it sure felt like I was. 

I read some on the other threads, and I see such a huge difference in how the people on those threads are dealing with their losses and how all of you/us deal with our losses.  The Lord makes such a difference in how we get through this, but it's still hard.  There's just no getting around that. 

Sonya, I have had two similar experiences to what you were talking about.  After losing one husband, it's always in the front of my brain that I will lose another.  Right after I was married to my present husband, he started having severe chest pains.  Of course I imagined he was having a heart attack (just like my first husband), and I just knew he was going to die.  Well, he didn't.  That was 35 years ago, and he's still here with me.  But that was my first thought and reaction.  Last year he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  I started going through all kinds of scenarios in my mind that he was going to die soon.  He's still here.  They say they "got it all".  But the point I'm making is that my first reaction to both of those situations was "I'm going to lose him, too".  It's like Sal said, when something like that happens, we just go an automatic.   

To all of you who are dealing with emotional/mental disorders, bipolar disorder, regular depression:  My second daughter has struggled with this since she was a young teenager.  She's now 32.  My husband also has struggled with it, but he seems to be doing much better at this point.  My daughther spent probably 15 years with doctors trying first this drug on her, then that drug on her and if those didn't work, then something else on her.  It was horrible for her and not great for us, either, to put it mildly.  Finally, finally, we heard of a doctor who was somewhat of a specialist in bipolar illness... after our daughter had a breakdown about a year and a half ago.  This doctor has been a true Godsend because she pretty quickly was able to get her on a combination of meds that has really given her relief from her suffering.  I put it mildly "given her relief" because she is not completely well.  I don't know if she ever will be, which is so sad, but she seems to be fairly stable at this point.  Someone wrote about all the trial and error that goes into treating someone with bipolar illness, and it's true.  That's how they do it.  I have often wished there was some kind of blood test they could do that would tell what drug would work the best and get a person leveled out, but there is no such test.  It's still just a lot of trial and error, but the point I'm making is that THERE IS HOPE.  There is light at the end of the tunnel in treating this disease.

Claudia, I really hope this last place your mom was able to get her husband will be THE ONE that will be able to take proper care of him and give her some relief, too.

There are so many horrible diseases out there and so many hard things we have to experience in this life.  It makes me all the more look forward to the new heaven and the new earth when Jesus returns for his bride!!  Until then we keep looking to Him, keeping our eyes fixed on Him, straining to press forward to reach the goal that He has called us to.  Blessings and prayers to all of you.  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

Weekends always seem a little slow here in the Christian thread.     Everyone must keep busy over the weekends.  Anyways I hope everyone is doing well.  I have spent most of the day updating my Joshua's memorial sight.    The link is below.  The sky here is beautiful today with big puffy clouds.  The kids have been playing outside and enjoying the sunshine even though it is still pretty cold here in Wyoming.  I am thinking about everyone and want you all to know you are in my prayers daily. 

Sal

 

http://www.virtual-memorials.com/main.php?action=view&mem_id=12135&page_no=1

[daniellemom]

Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for the prayers.  My Dad is home from the hospital with a clean bill of health.  He had a 99% blockage is one of his main artials.  The doctor said he was one lucky man for going to the hospital when he did.  They were able to put in a stent with no problems yesterday and he came home today.  The Lord has really blessed our family.  

It's funny that people are not willing to give the Lord the praise, Daddy was a lucky man for going to the hospital but the only reason he went was the Lord told him you better go now.  He told me today that the Lord gave him a sign last week but he was too hard headed to listen.  My Dad is a good christian man and raised all his children in church.  He is really a lucky man for knowing the Lord and listening to him. 

Thanks again everyone for your prayers and concerns. 

Claudia,

I'm glad to hear your Mom took charge and found Greg a place close by so she can still go and visit him.  I pray that he will rest and quiten down about his roommate.

 

Blessing and Prayers to everyone!

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi All,

It does seem to be quiet on the weekends.  Doesn't it?  Some must post from work during the week, while others of us lose time in chores and life.

Sal, your day yesterday sounded peaceful.  It's nice to have those kind of days.

Sonya, thanks so much for your cheerful thoughts and for praying for my family.  My mom seems a little relieved, and is praying that this will be a good place for Greg also.  She says she just can;t go through moving him again so soon if there were to be issues.  She is exhausted and really needs to have time to process everything and mourn and grieve, as she has lost her husband in a very real way.

Oneta, Are the cabinets in?  How do you like your new kitchen?

I do agree that the majority of believers do not like or want to give the Lord the credit or glory for what He does in our lives.  People are people, and many times it's a desire to have a pat on the back, or an applause, or just to think we can manage.  I had a discussion the other day with my husband, (more like an argument), about how easy it is to take forget that all we have and all we are belongs to the Lord.  It's just a concept that is hard to stick to when the world is so enticing, and society is so relative.  Look at all of this new age stuff that Oprah is endorsing, and people are just flocking to get involved in learning how to be god of their lives.  It's the New World Order all over again.  What is it they say?  "There is nothing new under the Son."  Well, all of this new philosophy is just the same ole same ole, just repackaged to make people think it's something wonderful and new.

I watched a double disk set on the Gospel of Matthew recently that was very well done.  It especially raised my attention to nothing new that I haven't heard before, but it was as of I was hearing it for the first time.  Jesus said He did not come to bring peace (like so many think).  He came with a sword.  He came to separate the good crop from the weeds, as one of His parrables states.  He was radical and bold, and I notice so often how not only do people like to claim theor own glory over His, but also they continue to reinvent this softer Jesus, this Jesus in a box that suits their purpose and desires.  I think the good ole USA is leading the way in that race, and the popular television icons with their false prophets make it even more in your face today than it has ever been before.  It's really scary.

I've been thinking about all of you and praying for God to meet you one by one and meet your needs.  BigMikesMom, Daniell's Mom, Oneta, Josh's Mom, the new moms to the Board, ALL of you, and the moms and grieving on other boards.... I don;t mean to purposely leave names out...just so many of us out here.  Oneta, you are right, while we do suffer great pain in our losses, we believers do have HOPE for a future and a life eternal spent with God and our loved ones.  It makes all the difference in the world and beyond.  Doesn't it?  I am ever thankful, and to HIM who is seated at the right hand of the Father be all the glory!  Amen!  Love, Claudia

 

[misshimstill]

Hi, all.  I had a post written last night, but when I hit the post button it didn't post and I lost what I had written.  Today I've been pretty busy, so before I hit the hay I wanted to drop in and say hi to everyone.

Sonya, So glad your dad made it to the hospital in time.  A 99% blockage is what I think is referred to as the "widow maker".  Most do not survive it.  Wonder how many timespeople actually  die because they don't listen to the Lord speaking to them. 

Yes I did get the kitchen finished finally.  It is really pretty.  I've told people that I've had bigger kitchens and I've had newer kitchens, but I really don't think I've ever had a prettier kitchen.  I'm very thankful for it.  It's much prettier than I really thought about when I started the job. 

With Holy Week this week I pray that everyone will be able to take time to really meditate on what this week is really all about and what it means for us as Believers.  With all of us here on this thread it's wonderful to contemplate the truth that Jesus has conquered that enemy, Death, made a spectacle of Satan, that He rose bodily into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father... that because of this truth, we who have lost sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, husbands (I don't think there is anyone who has lost a wife that has joined us on this thread) all have the wonderful promise because of Christ's victory of being reunited one day with those we love.  To Him be all the Power and all the Glory forever and ever!

Have a good week everyone!  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

Sonya,

I am so glad to hear that the blockage was caught on time.  What a reminder of how fragile life in our earthly body really is.  A few more hours could have been the difference.   Also a reminder about how amazing our Lord is to give your father the knowledge that he needed to go right at that time. 

Claudia, 

 I will continue to pray for your Mom.  How hard to see your loved one change into someone else because of a brain disorder like alzheimers.  I am so glad she was able to get him into a new facillity.  How amazing that it is even closer.  Thank you Lord for answering prayer.

 

And to all,   Happy St. Patricks Day.    I don't know the whole history of the day.  I need to look it up.  I would think that St. Patrick would be Catholic?   I just know my kids didn't want to wear green today in protest of a "dumb" holiday about pinching people.  I warned them not to get mad then at all the people who want to pinch them because they chose not to wear green.  My kids have bright red hair and could pass for being Irish. 

Sal

[misshimstill]

Hi, all.  I just had to respond to this.  I love St. Patrick.  He is one of the Catholic church's most "famous" saints.  I am not Catholic; however, I love the story of St. Patrick.  I hope you don't mind if I introduce him to you if you have never met him.

Until he was 16, Patrick considered himself pagan. Some Irish marauders raided his village at that age in the British mainland, and he was sold into slavery to Ireland. During his captivity He became aware of God's presence, and became a Christian. He escaped from slavery after six years, and went to Gaul to study in the monastery under St. Germain, bishop of Auxerre for twelve years. During this time he was called to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in Ireland. He was appointed second bishop to Ireland. In winning many souls to Christ, he made enemies, not least the Celtic Druids who imprisoned him several times, but each time, amazingly, he escaped. It is believed that he raised people from the dead, and other astonishing miracles. He established monasteries, and set up schools and churches which helped him to convert Ireland to Christianity. One time he is said to have illustrated the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, God Three Persons in One, by using a shamrock leaf, or clover with its three strands. His mission in Ireland lasted for thirty years. Subsequently, he retired to County Down. He died on March 17th in AD 461. That day has been celebrated as St. Patrick's Day since then.

Interestingly, Ireland was unique as being the only Western European country to avoid Roman conquest. It should be noted that Patrick and the early Celtic Church of Ireland rejected any foreign control of the church, recognising only Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church. Roman Catholicism did not emerge in Ireland until many centuries later after the Saxon invasion.

Patrick had a cause, a passion, a purpose, and a destiny. He risked his life for Jesus Christ

Back to me...  Because Patrick was so fruitful in his evangelistic efforts converting pagans to Christianity and was so hated by the druids, he was literally running from them to stay alive.  He would hide out in caves and in the wilderness.  He was involved in intense spiritual warfare and learned to pray using the three-in-one Godhead in his prayers for protection.  Below is his very famous prayer.  This prayer has parts that I was not aware of.  Hope you enjoy...  ~Oneta

I bind unto myself today

The strong Name of the Trinity,

By invocation of the same

The Three in One and One in Three.

I bind this today to me forever

By power of faith, Christ’s incarnation;

His baptism in Jordan river,

His death on Cross for my salvation;

His bursting from the spicèd tomb,

His riding up the heavenly way,

His coming at the day of doom

I bind unto myself today.

I bind unto myself the power

Of the great love of cherubim;

The sweet ‘Well done’ in judgment hour,

The service of the seraphim,

Confessors’ faith, Apostles’ word,

The Patriarchs’ prayers, the prophets’ scrolls,

All good deeds done unto the Lord

And purity of virgin souls.

I bind unto myself today

The virtues of the star lit heaven,

The glorious sun’s life giving ray,

The whiteness of the moon at even,

The flashing of the lightning free,

The whirling wind’s tempestuous shocks,

The stable earth, the deep salt sea

Around the old eternal rocks.

I bind unto myself today

The power of God to hold and lead,

His eye to watch, His might to stay,

His ear to hearken to my need.

The wisdom of my God to teach,

His hand to guide, His shield to ward;

The word of God to give me speech,

His heavenly host to be my guard.

Against the demon snares of sin,

The vice that gives temptation force,

The natural lusts that war within,

The hostile men that mar my course;

Or few or many, far or nigh,

In every place and in all hours,

Against their fierce hostility

I bind to me these holy powers.

Against all Satan’s spells and wiles,

Against false words of heresy,

Against the knowledge that defiles,

Against the heart’s idolatry,

Against the wizard’s evil craft,

Against the death wound and the burning,

The choking wave, the poisoned shaft,

Protect me, Christ, till Thy returning.

Christ be with me, Christ within me,

Christ behind me, Christ before me,

Christ beside me, Christ to win me,

Christ to comfort and restore me.

Christ beneath me, Christ above me,

Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,

Christ in hearts of all that love me,

Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.

I bind unto myself the Name,

The strong Name of the Trinity,

By invocation of the same,

The Three in One and One in Three.

By Whom all nature hath creation,

Eternal Father, Spirit, Word:

Praise to the Lord of my salvation,

Salvation is of Christ the Lord.

[daniellemom]

To Everyone,

Thanks again for being here for me!! You are all truely a blessing to me and have helped me along this road or grief.

My prayers are always with you all,

Sonya

[bigmikesmom]

Hi Everyone,

Oneta, Thanks for your words on St. Patrick. I am Catholic and an old catholic tradition was to name your children after a saint and then that day became your Feast Day. Today is my Feast DAY- Patti.

At Church Sunday our priest said something that I never thought about. He said that there is only a couple chapters in the Bible about Jesus birth but the important thing is Jesus"s Resurection and if you took the Resurection out of the Bible there would be no New Testament. I know it's a simple thought but put that way was a way I never thought about. That is our hope our children bodies will be resurected and we will see them again.I do believe they are in Heaven now ,though. I have faith and Trust in our Lord,Jesus Christ.

God Bless all of you!

Patti-BigMikesMom

[wyomingsal]

Thank you Oneta for the info.   I read it to my 9 y/o son who thinks St. Patricks day is a "dumb" holiday.  Maybe the worldy way people celebrate is but now we have some history behind the day a fellow Christian went to eternity with our Lord.

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

An excerpt from my devotional today:

"As I meditate on Jesus’s passionate prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane, his human agony and suffering on full display, I am reminded how often we followers of Jesus also long for God to provide another way in the face of our own suffering. We do not want to follow Jesus down the via dolorosa. We seek to follow the victorious entry of the Messiah into Jerusalem to be enthroned and crowned the king. We want that kind of victory borne out in our lives as the absence of difficulty. We want the glory and the grandeur of Palm Sunday as our entry into eternal life, with as little pain and suffering as possible. But as author Kim Reisman has noted, “That is not the Jesus way. God doesn’t dispense with death. God resurrects us from it. The truth is that the Jesus way isn’t about God taking pain away from God’s people; it’s about God providing us with strength, courage, and meaning, with abundant life, often in the midst of pain.”

I am always thankful then, for this very human portrait of Jesus’s own agonizing struggle with his own suffering. For I know he shares my own struggle. And while I often reluctantly say to God, “Not my will but yours be done,” I remember that God transforms the evil of suffering and affliction perpetrated against Jesus. God takes the very death of Jesus, and brings about resurrection. In my own prayers during this holiest of all weeks, I bow my head and my heart to the king who reigns not from a throne, but from the Cross. "

May Jesus' reign, His resurrection be your HOPE, your COMFORT, your PEACE as we come to celebrate His resurrection in fellowship with His Body this Sunday.  I can just imagine our beautiful beloveds in Heaven, in fellowship at that very same hour, just as we, all for His glory.  I find it comforting to think I am doing the very same thing at the very same moment as Joey is doing...  worshipping our Lord, THE LORD..........  Bless you all, Claudia 

[wyomingsal]

Claudia,

Thak you for the devotional this morning.  I have often thought of Jesus praying and weeping and almost begging the Father that if there were any other way to remove this cup from Him.   Jesus had a choice in his sufferring.  He could have said no.  And yet he chose to experienced pain and suffering for us and for our precious children.  God allowed a part of himself...his son/self to be seperated and ripped away from his presence so that we might have eternal life with Him.  Who among us would have willingly chosen this horror of separation from our child for the salvation of others.  Holy and worthy is the Lamb of God that was slain and who rose again....resurrected...that we might be freed from the curse of sin and live eternally with Him. 

 

Topic change here...

Has anyone heard the song by Super Chick call "We Live"?  I like the song but it can make me emotional because of the first verse if I am not doing well. 

[misshimstill]

Good morning, all.

Claudia,  How true!  We "followers of Jesus" usually don't really want to "follow Him" when it comes to suffering, but that's just part of the deal.  We "get to" participate in his sufferings.  If only we could look at it that way instead of we "have to".  It always gives me great comfort to know that all my loved ones in Heaven now and I myself will one day share in Jesus' glorified body, which was paid for on the cross.  It's a good thing for us (to put it mildly) that Jesus didn't shrink from suffering the way we do.

Patti and Sal, So glad the little tidbit about St. Patrick was edifying for you.  I have had to "learn" as a protestant the value of written prayers.  A retreat my husband and I went to two years ago taught me about such wonderful historical Christian models as St. Patrick and others.  Since then I've been fascinated by the story of St. Patrick.

I love the Easter season and meditating on the central Christian truth of the resurrection.  Your priest was right, Patti, that without the resurrection, the birth of Jesus would be meaningless.  The Apostle Paul made that statement when he said that if the resurrection of Jesus were not true, we would be of all men to be pitied.   (I Cor. 15:19.) 

Have a blessed day everyone.  ~Oneta

[bigmikesmom]

Sally,

I love,love ,love that song. I may have heard it but not since Mike's accident. I never listened to the words. I needed that today. Thanks. How do you put a video on this site.Thanks Claudia and Oneta and Sally for your words of Jesus.

Patti-BigMikesMom

[4everjoeysmom]

Sal, I have heard the song...love it!  It was a big hit on Christian radio a a few years ago and I used to sing-along a lot in the car.   

 

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi All,  I am remembering recently the discussion of earthquakes and how that correlates to life after losing someone we love so much.  I used to listen to a song by Tori Amos, called Little Earthquakes, but the loss of Joey was way beyond a little one.  Anyway, about 1:00 this morning I was awakened by the bed shaking.  My husband was away, and at first I thought "what is this, an enemy attack?"  Then the puppies outside started barking, and I would say it shook steadily for about 25 seconds.  We had an earthquake.  The epi-center was off the coast of Northern Peru at 4.9 on the Richter scale.  My husband was awakend by it too in Quito, and everyone we've talked to also were awakened by the shaking earth.  Crazy!!

I know special dates, holidays and times of family gatherings are hardest for us all.  Just a note to say i am thinking of each one of you.  Glory to the Lamb!  I'm beyond words with the gratitude for the Hope He has given for Us!!  Hugs & Blessings, Claudia

An excerpt from my devotional:

As Christians, we cannot avoid being “in” the world. ...BUT... The more we find ourselves living into a different kingdom, a world breathed by the Father, proclaimed by Christ, and revealed by the Spirit, the unchallenged, unseen storylines of the world come sharply into focus. The more we taste and see of the kingdom of God.... Like Paul, at times something like scales fall from our eyes, and the Spirit compels us to get up and re-experience our baptisms, going further into the kingdom, where we regain our strength for the mission ahead.....

 

[daniellemom]

Claudia,

Sorry to hear about the earthquake. I'm glad that you are OK.

To all,

Happy Easter, I hope everyone has a peaceful Easter. Easter has always been my best holiday. To me it means so much more than Christmas the birth of Christ is wonderful but when Jesus laid his life down for me, it's just almost to much to believe!

I will be doing easter eggs tonight with James and Mattie my other children and I'm a little scared. Danielle always was right there with us even if she was a little too old to do easter eggs and the easter egg hunt tomorrow at our church we always did that together. I did decline to head that up this year but I still have to take Mattie so I'm a little scared about that also. Mattie is 5 so of course she is going to want to go. These first holidays are very hard and scarey to me. I do know the Lord will be with me and my family.

If you remember last week my Daddy had the stent put in and I've been thinking, a lot of people in our family has been saying "WHY" about Danielle I was talking to my sister and when people people say that I always kind of thought why not Danielle, well to me the Lord was saying it's all in my will. If you ask why about Danielle are you asking "why" about your Daddy, how he had a 99% blocage and he's fine, now like nothing was wrong. Why!! Because the Lord is still on the Throne and doing his will and I pray for his will each day in my life.

I hope this makes sense. It's really hard for me to write what's in my heart. I just was sharing my feeling.

Love and prayers always!!

Sonya

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya, I LOVE how you shared your heart.  What you said makes perfect sense.  And what is most beautiful about it is how much you glorify God by understanding and moreso wanting HIS Will for you, for your life.  That takes strength, courage, and a lot of faith.  I know God will bless you with bountiful reward in Heaven for your faith here.

I think the sacry part of facing firsts, especially holidays, is the unknown--not knowing exactly how we will be, in tears, joyful, somewhere in between.  Just knowing it's a first time for this Easter, it brings some anxiety and sadness.  I think days leading up to the actual event are more stressful than the day itself--usually, anyway.

Like you and so many here, THE Resurrection has so much more meaning to me than I ever thought possible--not just for me, but more tangibly now because of what it means for Joey and Danielle, and all of our beloveds gone home to be with the Lord.  Sonya, I am praying for you--that the Lord will ease your spirit and give you a peace about the evnts this weekend, so that you may enjoy them with your little ones, and so that all you do will be glorifying to God.  You are such an enocuragement and a blessing.  Love and Hugs, Claudia

[wyomingsal]

Sonya,

I hope you have a wonderful time with the kids tonight doing the eggs.    This is the first Easter for me as well without my boy.  How he loved holidays and traditions.  Last Easter was especially memorable because my husband was in the state mental hospital. :?  We traveled down to visit him and stayed in a hotel with a pool.  The kids had a great time and my husband came out on a pass to see us.  We went to a park that had bison there and fed them grass through the fence.  Joshua loved it.  He loved bison.  His excitment was very contagious.  The hurt from the memories is hard to deal with as we make new memories without him.  So many feelings running through me at the same time.  Along with the grief is the amazement and wonder that Jesus chose to die for us.  I think of how important the anniversary of our childrens' death is to us and today....Good Friday, is the anniversary of Jesus's death.    He died today many years ago for us so that we also might be resurrected into eternity to live with Him.  My Joshua is with Jesus even today.  "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."  How amazing is that.  Our children are with Jesus today in eternity. 

Sal

[daniellemom]

Sal and Clauida,

 

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement.  I will pray for you and your families this Easter.

 

Look!!!   I finally got a picture of Danielle for you  to see!!! 

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya, Danielle is beautiful!!!!!

Sal, How awesome and preciosu those memories of your last Easter shared with Joshua here.  How bittersweet the new memories to make.  I am praying for you as well.

It was Easter week/weekend 2 years ago that I last saw Joey.  The Easter holiday 2 years ago was in the 3rd week of April rather than March.  How odd the calendar...  My memories of those last days with Joey are as sweet.  We were practically inseperable during that week, and I am ever grateful for that.  It's hard for me to believe that it has been almost 2 years now since I last saw my son..............

Today is a little sad here.  Our new puppies are 8 weeks tomorrow, and the 2 females were taken by my husband this morning off to the market for sale.  Saying good-bye is never easy when you know it's the last time you'll see their precious faces....kind of symbolic for me, I suppose.....

Love and blessings to ALL, Claudia

[bbarbie55]

Last Easter my daughter was in the hospital and I provided the basket for my grand son it was in April then three weeks later she was gone so this Easter is kind of bittersweet for me. I'm going to church then in the evening spending it with my other daughter I have a basket for her. Keep me in prayer I'm coming up on Bobbi's angel date of the first year and my daughter and I are goning to put flowers on her and her dads graves. It still seems so unreal and like its a dream. I know it was for the best because I believe the cancer would have taken her, tis way she didn't suffer much she was out of it. I miss her and can't wait to see her again but I'm doing good I don't cry as much anymore. Have to go

Deb

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi Deb, It's good to see your post.  I will hold thoughts and prayers of you.  I am going to the service tonight, and I know tears will fall in thanksgiving for what the Lord has done, and also for how much I miss my son.  When I came to Joey's one year date I found it sweetly serene, yet sweetly sad.  I wasn't filled with anxiety as I had been the coming days before.  God gave me a gentle peace.  As I sat alone on that glorious sunny morning, I blew soap bubbles up toward the heavens.  A few tears went too, but more than anything I recall the peace I felt.  I will pray for God's peace to envelope you as you approach Bobbi's one year date.  Blessings and Hugs, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hi, everyone. 

Sonya, I so love your comments about "why me" or "why so-and-so or such-and-such".  We usually ask "why?" about things we don't like the outcome, but when things go our way, we never ask why.  I think you're so right, and I'll even go so far as to say that you pleased God very much by what you said.

As one of you said, Easter probably should be more our favorite than Christmas, although I LOVE Christmas and always will, but without Easter, Christmas would be meaningless.  The Apostle Paul said so when he said that "if the resurrection of Christ were not true, we would be of all people to be pitied".  Because of Easter and because of Jesus' victory over death and the grave, we have the promise of seeing and being reunited with our loved ones again!  PRAISE GOD FOR THAT!!!! 

We did this as a call to worship in church today.  It is taken from a sermon by John Chrysostom.  I love it!  We will one day be joined with our loved ones who are with Jesus because of this central truth!  ~Oneta

 

O death, where is thy sting?

O Hades, where is thy victory?

Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!

Christ is Risen, and the evil ones are cast down!

Christ is Risen, and the angels rejoice!

Christ is Risen, and life is liberated!

Christ is Risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead;

for Christ having risen from the dead,

is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be Glory and Power forever and ever. Amen!

[4everjoeysmom]

I was poking around on the net earlier and ran into this devotional--profound!  It points me to a perspective I have never even considered...  the disciple (being me) has been at cross-purposes with her Lord..........   Blessings, Claudia

[align=left]Spurgeon’s Evening devotional on John 17  --  March 22, 2008[/align]

[align=left]“Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am.”[/align]

[align=center]John 17:24[/align]O death! why dost thou touch the tree beneath whose spreading branches weariness hath rest? Why dost thou snatch away the excellent of the earth, in whom is all our delight? If thou must use thine axe, use it upon the trees which yield no fruit; thou mightest be thanked then. But why wilt thou fell the goodly cedars of Lebanon? O stay thine axe, and spare the righteous. But no, it must not be; death smites the goodliest of our friends; the most generous, the most prayerful, the most holy, the most devoted must die. And why? It is through Jesus’ prevailing prayer—“Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am.” It is that which bears them on eagle’s wings to heaven. Every time a believer mounts from this earth to paradise, it is an answer to Christ’s prayer. A good old divine remarks, “Many times Jesus and his people pull against one another in prayer. You bend your knee in prayer and say ‘Father, I will that thy saints be with me where I am’; Christ says, ‘Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me whereI am.’” Thus the disciple is at cross-purposes with his Lord. The soul cannot be in both places: the beloved one cannot be with Christ and with you too. Now, which pleader shall win the day? If you had your choice; if the King should step from his throne, and say, “Here are two supplicants praying in opposition to one another, which shall be answered?” Oh! I am sure, though it were agony, you would start from your feet, and say, “Jesus, not my will, but thine be done.” You would give up your prayer for your loved one’s life, if you could realize the thoughts that Christ is praying in the opposite direction—“Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am.” Lord, thou shalt have them. By faith we let them go.

 

[misshimstill]

Hi, Claudia.  That is a perspective I've never thought about.  How many times have we asked God why the "good" have to be taken from us and the "bad" left?  Anyway, I know that I have asked that very thing.  Thanks for sharing it.  ~Oneta

[daniellemom]

To everyone,

Easter was very hard. It seems I have come to a stand still and just ran out of gas. I've tried so hard to do everything that I should be doing but now, I just can't seem to do anything.

We did the eggs for easter and Mattie had to do one for Danielle and all I could do was cry, then Mattie said Mama I will do a egg for you too. She is so sweet and misses her big sister a lot. James my son is 18 and he doesn't talk about Danielle much but has now started saying a few things. He also did an egg for Danielle but didn't want any one to see it.

My neice is getting married Friday night and Danielle was going to be the maid of honor, it's going to be hard to go and know that Danielle should be there. I'm hoping that everyone will try very hard to be happy for Laura and not cry because we will be missing Danielle.

Anyway I'm just venting a little, sorry this is so long.

I hope every one had a nice Easter.

Claudia and Sal, I'm so glad you have nice memories from last Easter.

[misshimstill]

 Danielle's mom,

I can understand that Easter was hard.   Holidays are a time when we're with family.  When someone is missing, we try very hard to get through it for everyone else, but it does take a toll on us to do that.  I always feel drained after a holiday.

Am praying for you about the wedding.  I know that will be a tough one for you.  Probably for others who loved Danielle, too.

It's okay to vent.  In fact, it's very good for you to vent.  Don't feel bad about that. 

God bless you.  ~Oneta

[shellbellsmom]

The holidays were hard as well for my family.  We did get a little laugh while we were decorating our eggs though this year.  Last year my daughter did the eggs for us (She was never known for her cooking or baking) and they turned out terrible.  When she colored them the dye bubbled up which we had never seen before- they looked so darn pathetic...how can you mess up colored eggs we told her, but in a kidding manner.   We asked her did you forget the vinegar, did you add some mysterious ingredient to the water... was it even water you used? She never fessed up...

Anyways they were sure some good memories of last year's Easter.  It sure wasn't the same without her...I would have rather had the eggs made by her this year ...regardless of how they turned out.  She sure was missed this year.

My seven year old nephew told me my daughter Michelle was probably having a huge party up in heaven for Easter, and that she was with Jesus and our other relatives now in heaven dancing and eating all the candy she wanted.  If only I could think like a child a little more.

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya and Michelle's Mom,  BIG HUGS to you both.  It was 2 years ago I had my last memories with joey at Eastertime.  Last year for Easter, I too was a mess from rmemebring "one year ago I was doing this, or Joey was doing that...  It's hard.  I know.  I am praying for you, for the comfort and hope that peace will come and it won't be so heartbreaking making new memories...  Love and Blessings, Claudia

[daniellemom]

Shellbellsmom, Claudia, and Oneta

Thanks you so much for your words. You are all the sweetest people I know that can be in the same boat and still reach out with encouraging words for each of us.

You all have helped me have a better day. THanks again!!!

My prayers are with you all,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[shellbellsmom]

I am looking for some prayers for a family who has already suffered the lost of two adult children and now are faced with another tragic situation which may leave them with yet another lost child.  My sister-n-laws family needs prayers and a miracle for her brother who fell down a flight of stairs last night and is currently un-responsive and in a coma due to a very serious head injury.  The doctors don't feel he will survive or if he does will need to be on life support in an institution the rest of his life. These parents have already lost one son age 27 on Christmas, and another one age 40 both due to a heart condition. 

Please pray for this family...that God will provide them strength during this difficult time and send them the miracle they need to heal him. 

[daniellemom]

Shellbell's Mom

I will have this family in my continuous prayers.

[misshimstill]

Shellbellsmom

You certainly can count on my prayers. 

Lord, I lift this family up to you.  You know their needs more than anyone.  Circle them, Lord.  Be their strength.  Be their comfort.  We ask for a miracle, Lord, to restore perfect health to this young man in your mighty name.  We don't ask that he be left in a vegetative state, Lord.  We ask that you completely heal him.  We pray as Jesus prayed, that your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  Amen.

[4everjoeysmom]

Echoing the prayers here...  My heart is burdened for this family....  LORD, BE WITH THEM.  -Claudia

[grannyc]

^Oneta,

^{I have found this beautiful thread.  Thanks for all your directions, I believe I am here for quite awhile,  Just reading all the posts, I am Blessed.  Thanx again, Cheryl    :shock:}

[misshimstill]

Hi, Cheryl.  Glad you found us!  ~O

[grannyc]

Patti, so glad to read your story.  The only thing I want to say and that is only becuz I, too, was raised Catholic, Parochial School and all and in my era>  I do not think that I'd have gone to Heaven before I met the Lord personally.  You are a very fortunate Catholic and I know the Church is changing.  But, for me 6 weeks after I received Jesus as my Lord and was Baptized in the Holy Spirit, I chose to leave- I was so hungry for the truth and just not getting enough to grow on at my Catholic Church.......that was 30 years ago, WoW, until I thought about that it sure didn't seem like it could be that long ago.  Just keep Jesus and your Salvation alive as it sounds like you surely do and we will walk this Valley we've been put in helping each other.   Thanx for your sharing, Cheryl  :?

[grannyc]

Sorry Guys,

In error, I just responded to a Jan. 10 post.  OOps!

It was to BigMikesMom.

Not sure,    must need more sleep......had terrible dreams last night, "can I plea that, that is why I didn't pay attention?.....excuse me again."

Cheryl

[bigmikesmom]

CHERYL,

tHANKS FOR COMMENTING ON MY POST. I WAS RAISED CATHOLIC AND I HAD NUNS FOR GRADE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE. YES, IT HAS CHANGED. THANK GOODNESS THE CATHOLICS ,AT LEAST NOT MYSELF, DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY ARE THE ONE TRUE RELIGION. I REPECT ALL PEOPLE'S RELIGIONS, IT'S GOD AND THE HOLY TRINITY THAT IS IMPORTANT,THE FATHER,SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RAISED TO BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS A TEMPORARY LIFE AND SOMEDAY I WOULD HOPE TO GO TO ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN. I KNOW MIKE IS IS HEAVEN BUT I STILL AM HUMAN AND MISS HIM AND HURT TERRIBLY. CATHOLICS ARE BAPTIZED WHEN THEY ARE BABIES AND MAKE THEIR CONFIRMATION WHEN THEY ARE IN HIGH SCHOOL, RE-STATING THAT THEY ACCEPT THE LORD AS THEIR SAVIOR AND EVERY YEAR ON EASTER WE ALL SAY TOGETHER AGAIN THAT WE ACCEPT JESUS AS OUR SAVIOR BUT WE ALSO STATE WE BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH, COMMUNION OF SAINTS FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND LIFE EVERLASTING" IT DEFINETELY HITS HOME ALOT MORE WHEN WE ARE FACED WITH THIS CHALLENGE. I ALSO READ IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE MOST SPIRITUAL PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO WITHSTAND THIS TYPE OF SUFFERING AND COME THROUGH IT SPREADING CHRISTS HOPE AND GLORY TO OTHERS. I AM SURE TRYING BUT I KNOW I WILL MAKE IT BECAUSE OF HIM. I WONDER HOW MANY NON-BELIEVERS BECOME BELIEVERS WHEN THEY SUFFER THIS KIND OF TRAGEDY, OTHERWISE HOW DO THEY MAKE IT THROUGH. I GUESS YOU COULD MAKE IT THROUGH BUT LIVE AN ANGRY,BITTER LIFE, THAT MUST BE THE DIFFERENCE. I WANT TO BE THE PERSON GOD MADE ME TO BE-IN HIS IMAGE.

I GUESS I AM RAMBLING. LOVE TO ALL OF YOU HERE!

PATTI-BIG MIKES MOM

[angelgirl63]

Well, there are a remnant of Catholics who are still faithful to the unadulterated teachings of Holy Scripture,  Early Church Fathers, and valid Church Councils and accept Saint Paul's witnessing to the fact that there is only One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. Christ charged Peter, the Rock, to bind and loosen faith and morals on Earth, and then to his successors. The True Church of Christ most certainly has four identifiable marks, that  we may identify Her - One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic, as Patti mentioned, where Peter is the Rock and that the gates of Hell will never prevail against It.  Only the Catholic Church carries these four marks... no other church can boast to this fact. True Christians also understand that Faith without works is dead. Justification does not come by Faith alone.  This is a quandry for most who think that all they have to do is accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. Saint Paul told believers to work out their salvation with fear and trembling because it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Lord.  Even Christ said to not worry about the one who can kill the body but to fear the One that can kill the soul. How many of us truly contemplate those verses? Holy Scripture is very clear that if we die defiled, (in mortal sin) or unbaptized, we are damned for all eternity. Even Christ spoke more about Hell than Heaven and said there are few who find their way down that narrow path... That's scary stuff, but not for those who find shelter in His Church, and obey His commandments. Praise God we have until our last breath to repent and be forgiven... He is so merciful, yet just.  And as weird as this may sound, I envy little children, who have been baptized but have not reached the age of reason and who die - they are ultimately rewarded - they have inherited the Kingdom of Heaven, without a doubt, because they were undefiled, unlike souls who have reached the age of reason and die in venial sin...Catholics comprehend the fact that they need our prayers, because they can no longer pray for themselves. This is why Catholics have Masses said for the faithfully departed souls because of the reality of Purgatory. The book of Maccabees in Holy Scripture, even shows this to be a proper thing to do for them.

I can only imagine what it will be like on the Last Day, that so many of us look forward to ~ pseudo believers will say to Him, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, baptize in Your name, excorcize demons in Your name... and He will say to them, Get away from me you evildoers, I never knew you.  Pretty compelling stuff to desire the love and respect of God over the love and respect of men. This is why true Christians are hated by men.

Anyway, I felt the Holy Spirit move me to add to Patti's comments about the majority of Catholics and their contemporary beliefs.

Also, please be patient with me for not sharing the details of my agony over the brutal and violent death of 'my innocent baby'... I'm very apprehensive to expose my bleeding heart with anyone other than my husband...  

PS. I just looked over at my Starbucks venti white chocoloate mocha and this is what it says on the cup:  The Way I See It #258 ~ "Because true conservatives are pessimists, they are happier than liberals, for three reasons.  First, pessimists are rarely surprised. Second, when they are wrong they are delighted to be so. Third, pessimists do not put their faith in princes. They understand that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. Happiness is an activity; it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. --George F.  Will, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and columnist. 

 

[misshimstill]

angelgirl and everyone else,

I would beg us not to get caught up in arguing the pros and cons of our faith in Jesus.  I certainly agree with you that faith without works is dead, and anyone who claims to be Christian but bears no fruit may be in for quite a suprise some day.  But that's not up to me to decide.  I trust in God's total just nature to deal with those types of issues.  I would hope that we here can just agree to agree on the fact that Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and leave the dissecting of the Scriptures to the apologists and true scholars of the faith.  I respect all Christians, whether Catholic or protestant, and expect to find many of both in Heaven.  I have family who I love and cherish who are Catholic and many who are protestant.  We have a common bond here, and that is the death of our loved ones and our grief over them.  I think we should keep our comments on faith to the fact that we do all believe in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God the Father, his virgin conception and birth, his death which paid for our sins and his resurrection and bodily assention into Heaven AND that He will come again to judge the living and the dead.  Then we willl all be "raised to newness of life" to dwell with him "in that house not made with hands eternal in the Heavens".  This is our common faith.  Let's keep it to that.  PLEASE!  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

Oneta,

I agree.    If we start getting into the theology of each seperate Christian faith we could argue 'til our Lord Himself returns.  I work at Care Net Pregnancy Resource Center and we have both Catholics and Protestants working, praying, supporting each other in the same wonderful God centered ministry.  I believe the main basis of faith for both are the same.  Some church members in both groups may think they are saved and not be.  But I believe it is because they are relying on the church and general faith rather then a personal and true relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ.  There are true Christians I believe in both protestant and Catholic churches.  Christ is our cornerstone...our foundation on which we believe. 

( I have heard people argue that Catholics aren't Christians and vice versa.)  I believe that is hog wash!    We share the same Lord and Savior.  Praise the Lord!

Sal