I Miss Him So...

[aprilmoonflower]

fourleafclover- I think it's perfectly normal what you are going through. especially since you never really got to grieve for you William. It sounds like he was trying to protect you and loved you very much despite the time and distance that seperated you. I think your situation definitly warrants some counseling if that is something you are willing to persue. At least there you will have your space to grieve and it might help you to just make the time for it and have someone who is there for you since your family doesn't really understand. Otherwise you can come here. We'll listen.

[missinmyhubby]

Hello all. Sorry I have not been writing at all lately. However, as always I have just spent the last two hours reading all the past entries that I have missed recently. There is A LOT going one here right now. I will write more soon, I hope...lol Just wanted to check on and say hello!!! GREAT BIG HUGS

[fourleafclover]

To Misshimstill and Aprilmoonflower.

I read your comments and observations, and sitting here in my office I burst out crying. You get it! Somebody finally gets it and I feel like a mountain has shifted. Misshimstill: you are so completely right. It is a question of loving both of them, and I know that with William...I know "we" were unfinished. Sometimes I think I just need to find closure, but at the same time (as I've said before), there are all those questions? It has been difficult to express myself (actually impossible). You see, my husband is wonderful, everything a woman needs in a man, but he does lack compassion and I think it's because he himself can't deal with things that makes him sad. He is a very happy, jolly person all the time and always tries to make a joke of something serious. He always believes that when someone passes, those that have left take care of one another. He has never said so, but I know he thinks how I feel is just unecessary. I have often felt that maybe I'm feeling too sorry for myself and would hate that to be true. But when it all comes down to it, I just miss him so much and I miss knowing that he is under the same blue sky as I am. Yes, Aprilmoonflower, I know, I know, Iknow that he was trying to protect me...just as he did when we were children. But it wasn't his place to make the decision he made. I will die oneday knowing that although he was there for me for 24 years...I was never there for him. Now I know I sound pathetic... I am so glad that there is no time limit on these sort of things and I am so grateful to hear you guys say it. Because I started thinking that "I am losing my mind with this". I must admit...before chatting like this, I was what felt like "in my darkest hour". I honestly felt like there was no point in carrying one, because I just feel worse and worse everyday. It was as though every waking moment was consumed with thoughts and what if's about him. What if I was there? Would and could I have made a difference? Did he die knowing how much I loved him? Did he know that I would change places with him in a heartbeat? Did he know that he saved my life so many times, over and over again? These are the things I so wish that he knew, and I so wish I could've just told him that one more time. I just wanted to say to him that he was my everything, my everything. But, now I must also say that last night, I slept for five hours straight (I didn't wake up once during that time). Is it because of you guys? Can only be. Today I feel like "yes, I can live to be 100 and watch my children grow up; I can make it through tomorrow and when the time comes...I will see William again...and I will let him know that even though I am still so angry with him, I still love him just as I loved him when I was five". My heart is so much lighter today, and Misshimstill: that's because you made me feel that it's not me...I'm not the only one out there that seems ridiculous to the rest of the world. I am thinking about you also, and I pray that it will be okay tomorrow, and the next day and the day after that.

[fourleafclover]

Misshimstill:

The counsellor thing...I just can't do it. I tried it once...a long, long time ago (after my parents were divorced and for reasons which led to their divorce), and it made things so much worse for me. But, you were so great at analysing me and my feelings (you were so SPOT ON)...I'd rather stay right here for now. Thanks anyway. Can you tell that I am feeling so alive today? The outburst earlier was just what I needed. I read your comment over and over and I even felt my heart wake up a little. Thank you and thank you and once again, THANK YOU.

[aprilmoonflower]

fourleafclover- you are hardly rediculous! I'm glad you are feeling a little better. sometimes it just helps getting it out. Also I don't beleive counseling is for everyone (me included!) You do what you need to do and know it's ok! You are right where you are supposed to be and like someone else here wrote, it will take as long as it takes. I am just sad for you that your family doesn't have a clue (But I also understand it too) they never knew him so how would they possibly know what you've lost? It's not their fault but an incredibly difficult situation.. so be gentle with yourself and with them too. but you need to be honest too to yourself wether they like it or not.. As for your not being there for William (don't beat yourself up! I Know easier said than done!) I see where you are coming from, it's the guilt of not being with them! I've been there myself. but some choices in life we just don't get to make ( right or wrong and whether we like it or not)

acceptance is a really hard thing, even as hard as grief. you are mourning that time and your loss of that time. it's ok. what do you think will bring you closure? Is there anyone you can talk to that was close with him that might be able to give the info you are seeking about his last years?

[misshimstill]

Oh, Fourleaf, I am so happy as I log on this morning and hear that you are feeling so much better. I have had you on my heart so much since I read your postings. To all of you, I have gone back about 20 pages or so and gotten some background on all of you. I see that you have all really bonded and have helped each other so much. We can understand each other in ways that no one else in our lives, possibly, can understand us because, though our stories are all different and unique, they're all the same, too. Fourleaf, I am so happy that you feel understood and that you now feel some sort of release from your pain. There will still be more processing for you ahead, but I know the feeling when you feel that you have had some kind of breakthrough. I, too, am still struggling with the same sort of problem. As you can see by my screen name, I still, after all these years, still miss my husband, even though I have a husband, a wonderful husband who is very supportive and understanding (as much as he can be to not be in my shoes). Here's a little of my background. The husband of my youth, my first love, made a decision on his own, also, which cut me out of the decision-making process, and knowing about that has hurt me so much - that he felt he was in the kind of position that he felt he couldn't talk to me about it and that he felt he had no recourse. Three days before he died, the doctor told him he would need surgery to replace a damaged heart valve caused by rheumatic fever as a child. He was given two dates for the surgery, one right away and one in two weeks after the holidays. This was on December 20, 1972. He felt that if he waited two weeks, he would die first and then I would be saved from the crushing financial burden of his surgery and then have him die anyway. I hate it that he made that decision on his own, and even though the outcome may have been no different, I would have liked to have been able to discuss it with him and express my feelings on the matter. But I didn't get that chance. For all these years I have felt that the day he died I didn't "do enough" to get him to the doctor or the hospital so something could have been done to save his life, but it wasn't my fault. He knew things I didn't know. He knew the doctor I was trying to reach that day was on vacation for Christmas. He knew the doctor would never call us back. He knew that if we sat there and did nothing, he would die, which is exactly what happened. But I have always blamed myself for the fact that I didn't do more that day. I have been angry at him for not telling me the things he knew and giving me the opportunity to be fully informed about his situation. If I had known he was about to die, there were things I know I would have done differently. I have felt guilty for being angry with him for dying and leaving me alone, pregnant, and scared. There has been no one in my life who has ever really understood this, even though there have been a few who have tried. They eventually always tell me that I just need to "accept it" and "move on". I hate those words so much, "move on"! It seems the western world is much too anxious to move on and not examine our feelings or grieve sufficienty. I read that Armaiti said that in her culture, they feel that grief needs to be at least a year, and even possibly up to 7, not as a legalistic thing, but as a time frame to adequately deal with your emotions. I know, Fourleaf, that this has been going on for about that length of time for you and that you have felt it will never end. I have felt that way, too, since mine is over 30 years old. But when we don't have all the pieces, it is hard to put the puzzle together. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know how happy I am that you feel you might have made some progress in your processing. I just wanted to give everyone a little more background on me and also at the same time tell you of some of the similarities between me and you, Fourleaf. Now, unfortunately, I have to get some work done or I may make things worse for myself and not have a job. I'll be continuing to read. I'm so glad I found this website. I can see why people have said to me that I need some sort of support group to share with.

[misshimstill]

Fourleaf, one more thing. On the counseling. If you don't feel that's for you, at least right now, that's very okay. Maybe we can do more for you than a counselor, who has never walked in your shoes, could ever do. Just keep talking to us if that helps you. I'm praying for all of you. ~Oneta

[armaiti]

Misshimstill - My partner, Ishaq, also withheld information from me about his health. It was only after he died that I found out how bad his kidneys were. He'd been a diabetic since he was nine years old. He'd been going to a kidney doctor for a couple of years now. I used to go with him, but the last few months before he died he would tell me no need for me to come, the doctor just says keep doing what he'd doing, everything is fine. After he passed away I found out from a friend, an ER nurse, that he had called and talked to her, read his kidney medical chart to her. She told me from that reading he had less than a year before complete kidney failure. That would have meant that last year was his last summer to swim and play and be in the wild woods before kidney dialysis and certain death. He never told me how bad it was, both to protect me and to protect himself too, as I would have gotten even more over-protective and wouldn't have been willing to go out to the remote areas of Oregon that we were in even three days before his passing. I've found that I'm not angry with him for this. I respect his decision to not tell me, to make a choice to live his life and find his death the way he wanted. Of course, my situation is a lot different from yours - he and I were in our fifties, his children were all grown. He passed away laughing in a river, with friends from work on a rafting trip. (I've told others about the website I set up for him, it is at home.earthlink.net/~ishaqjud )

I should mention that when I talk about the seven years of grieving, you mention that is in my culture, but really it's just in my spiritual tradition. I can't make a claim to be of any one tribe, my dad was adopted and didn't tell me until my blood grandmother had already died and most of my and my cousins searched to find out tribe has come to dead ends. But I do follow both Sufi and Native/Earth Spirituality traditions, and my close friend who is part Lakota has guided me on the path of grieving and honoring Ishaq's spirit in a good way.

Fourleafclover - what April says is true. What could you do to find closure? I find ceremony and ritual have made a huge difference in this process, and I also don't believe in counseling for myself. (I have this ingrained resentment at the thought of paying someone to listen to me talk! I'd rather use my money in other ways, since I don't have a lot of it!) Is there a place you could go where you and he had been together, or even somewhere in nature that he might have liked? Maybe you could go there, a place where you can be alone and not disturbed. Talk to him. Tell him what you feel, imagine he is sitting right there in front of you and can here you (he can). I often feel Ishaq strongly in nature, as we spent so much time swimming and exploring new wild places.

Also, I highly recommend taking melatonin for helping you sleep. There is also a homeopathic rememdy called "Quietude" which I've taken that has been helpful to me. I'm glad you got a good solid block of sleep last night, but if you have trouble in the future, you might try these. Not getting enough sleep makes everything so much harder - been there, done that!

Ishaq's sister and brother-in-law are coming to visit today, I'm excited to here the stories of their travels across the country. And to have some folks staying in the house, it does feel empty here at night. Ishaq filled this house with laughter and music. He used to sit and practice his guitar while we watched TV shows or movies, it used to drive me crazy. Now it's a fond memory of one of his unique little quirks.

Hope you all have peace today,

Anna

[misshimstill]

Armaiti, I appreciate your filling in some gaps for me since I haven't been on this journey with all of you very long. It is good that you have been able to be at peace that Ishaq withheld information from you and that you have been able to release him in that way. It has been very hard for me these last two years since I have had this piece added to what I already suspected for over 30 years - in a similar way to yours, from third parties that he had confided in, but neither they nor he had told me of his choices. I imagine they thought I already knew... Respecting his decision, as you described how you have handled this in your life, is part of what I have to learn to do. I have felt so betrayed by not knowing about this and having been kept from being a part of the decision-making process that he went through, and I have always known that at some point I am going to have to let go of that feeling. I think I am finally coming to that myself. Thank you also for clarifying your beliefs in Eastern religions as something you have adopted, rather than being how you were raised. I agree very much with the idea that Easterns have of taking more time with their grief, rather than the way we Westerners deal with it by feeling that we need to "move on" quickly. In my case, "moving on" like that was really nothing more than repression, which has been very injurious to me over the years.

By the way, Armaiti and Fourleafclover, I want to also add that counseling may not be the way for you to go. I was fortunate in that I was able to find a woman who was good for me to talk to and get perspective, who was the person who told me "it will take as long as it takes" and not to feel the need to rush through it. But I can relate to the feeling of having to pay someone to listen to you. There must be a better way, and I think this is one way of those ways -in a forum of like-minded people who have similar, yet unique, experiences that they can share with one another and learn from. I think Armaiti's suggestion of ritual and ceremony to help with closure is a good one. I myself have done a great deal of that, from writing and then buring what I write with my husband's body to lighting candles and imagining to dance with him to being alone as much as I can, whereever that may be (sometimes just at home if that's the best I can do)to "talk" to him and think things through. Also, some of you had mentioned what you've done with your rings. This is another thing I have done to help bring him closer to me. I lost my wedding rings that he gave me in a move from Illinois to Texas (stolen, I think, by the movers). However, I still have his wedding ring, which I sized down to fit my finger and added three of my mother's diamonds from her wedding ring when she died to signify the three years we had together. I wear it on my right hand. Armaiti, where did you find the homeopathic sleeping medication? I, too, have had a terrible time with insomnia. I actually got hooked on prescription medication and have had to get off it, but that leaves me up at night for hours and hours. Over-the-counter medications just don't work, and neither does melatonin, which I have tried, also. Maybe the homeopathic is the route to go. Looking forward to more sharing with all of you. Oneta

[mishknit]

It's so interesting to hear about the ways in wjhich your husbands kept you out of the loop in terms of their medical conditions. I have a similar story.

in 2001 tom had a deep vein thrombosis (blood clot) that put him into the hospital on an iv drip for over a week (actually there on sept 11). After that, he had to go on a blood thinner, coumadin, and when you take that you have to get your blood tested regularly to make sure all is at the right levels, etc. he did do this for quite a while, but in the last year of his life i had the feeling he wasn't taking care of that the way he should. I was on him about it a lot...have you gone to the doctor, will you PLEASE go to the doctor....he waived me off. In fact, tho, I did extract a promise from him to make an appt. as a new years resolution just before he died.

Anyway, after he died i was going thru stuff, and, in the back of my mind registered that there was no coumadin in the house. About a month later, i remembered it, and i tore this house up looking for some drugs...only to find an old rx for it, long lapsed. It really freaked me out, that he would just decide to stop taking itm whuich he apparently did. Then in July of last year my son and i visited MN and his relatives. I was at dinner with his brother, and we were talking about his death, and he said "I just don't understand why the doctor told him he didn't have to take the coumadin anymore". Well..i burst into tears at that....did he hate me and my son so much, did he ant to die, did he kill himself?

All of those fears were running thru my head, and i couldn't stand it..needed to find some sort of peace with the situation, or i would have gone crazy.

The fact was that he loved us deeply, and lovbed life more than anyone i have ever met. I'm not sure exactly what prompted him to stop the medication, but whatever it was it wasn't lack of love for us or life, and that has been the place i've had to come to. About a week before he died there was an article in time or newsweek about long teerm use of bloodthinners and the complications that coukld happen..perhaps he had done sopme research, who knows? I showed him the article, and he just kind of fluffed it off..i thought that was weird, but didn't think too much past that.

anyway...that's a log story, but i can ceratinly identify with all of you who feel a sense of betrayel by your loved ones....i don;'t any longer, but i did. and it was work getting past it..i do see a therapist who has helped me immensely through all of this. But so has this bb....

peace,

michele

[armaiti]

Oneta - you can find Quietude at just about any natural food store, or online. I know they have it at Drugstore.com.

Michele - Ishaq often wasn't as pro-active in his health care as I wished him to be. When he first moved in - as my roommate, before we were a couple - he waited two weeks to tell me he was an insulin dependent diabetic. I was angry with him for not telling me, who he lived with, that he had a serious medical condition. He always wanted to live life to the fullest, and he tended to ignore some of the side effects of his diabetes. He almost lost a foot because he went hiking and didn't pay attention to the blisters he got; they got infected, the bone got infected and he almost died (this was a couple of years before I got together with him). I was always bugging him to check his feet, to test his blood sugar. Sometimes I felt like a nagging b**ch a lot of the time, but after he passed soooo many friends said they felt I'd kept him around a lot longer than if he hadn't been with me. Other stories came out "remember the time we went camping and Ishaq collapsed from low blood sugar in the campfire and we had to roll him out?"!! Things no one told me when he was alive. I don't hold anything against him for not telling me about his kidneys. It was better this way, I'm actually grateful, as we spent the last two weeks of his life traveling to some of the most beautiful mountains and rivers in Oregon, making memories that will stay with me forever.

Allergies are kicking in for me here...I hadn't been taking my allergy nose spray since I had the flu, and on Monday morning I had a dream that Ishaq was driving me somewhere and telling me that I better start taking my allergy medicine, that it was that time of year again. I took care of him while he was alive, and he's still watching over me from the spirit plane. How cool is that.

Peace,

Anna

[bsnurse76]

Good evening everyone. I was reading some of the posts and realized I am not the only one who has questions about being kept in the dark about health issues or why he didn't take care of his body. After Darren's death, I come to find out from his sister(whom he did not speak to much) that he had been diagnosed with high blood pressure around age 30. He never took any medication while we were together and I believe not prior to that either. He probably went 15+ years of not treating it. What even makes me most upset about it is that he worked in a Cardiology department for 20+ years running their cath lab. He dealt with patients with high blood pressure and heart disease every day and witnessed what it did to their body especially their heart. More than likely he didn't feel bad from his high blood pressure so he didn't think he needed the medication.

I have been studying a lot for my upcoming boards. My last day of clinicals is May 18th. I am so glad to be finished. I just wish Darren was here to celebrate with me. He was such a big support for me during most of my schooling and it is hard to imagine finishing school without him. We had planned on going to Hawaii for a nice trip in June. My girlfriends and I are going to San Diego at the end of June. It will be nice to get away. I plan on packing up Darren's stuff in June and getting it to his family. I think I decided that I will do it and take it to them instead of having strangers in my house. I don't want to be questioned about what is his or mine. Well, I have vented and feel better. Thanks for listening. Brandi

[misshimstill]

Good evening everyone. I'm finding as I look online to see who has written that most of you write during the evening. I guess that's to be expected, since I imagine most work during the day. I work at home so I get on and look throughout the day.

I don't know what the deal is with men and their health. I wonder if it was so much them keeping things from us, as in hiding things, or if it was just that they didn't want to fool with all the things expected of them to stay in good health. I can understand that to some degree. Sometimes you just get to feeling like if you have to live "this way", why do it?

Anna, I'll look for the sleep medication around town before I try online. Hopefully I'll find it here. I'll let you know how it goes. Looking forward to another night of not sleeping again tonight... It's something that I dealt with two years ago when my grief was the strongest. I was so distraught that I couldn't sleep, day or night. Weeks would go by and all I would sleep would be maybe an hour or so each night. My husband, knowing something was wrong, but before he found out what it was, was beginning to get worried about me and recommended that I get on something. Eventually I did, which got me hooked, and now, as I mentioned earlier, I'm having to deal with the effects of that. Grief is an awful thing to have to go through! Just reading some of your back writings I can see that what I've been experiencing is pretty much "normal" for people going through what we are. In a way, that's a relief to me - just to find out that I'm not crazy after all like I thought I was for so long - or on the way there (crazy).

[lindat]

Michele, I think you know that there wasn't anything that you could have done, nor was it your fault. Our men were grown and responsible for their own health and if they didn't want to do what it takes to survive, we were pretty helpless to make them. Terry was type 2 diabetic and had high blood pressure, and really tried 85% of the time, but it got the best of him anyway. Could I have done stuff differently, probably, but I wasn't the cook nor should I be the cop - when he screwed up he knew it and didn't want or appreciate a guilt trip from me.

My new guy has just told me that he was diagnosed with prostate cancer 7 years ago and he has opted until now for holistic treatment partnered with a urologist and an oncologist, all working together. When he got his PSA results this time they were very elevated and he decided to tell me about it now rather than wait until August when we see each other - he didn't want to tell me over the phone. He is trying to decide what course of treatment options to proceed further with and is leaning toward surgery in the next few weeks but really would rather stay with the holistic methods. He is very reassuring and very careful to explain all the options and I have to trust that he will make the right decision, but I'm freaking out here and I also seem to be discovering some anger that I have never had before. This sucks.

[mishknit]

Brandi...

so glad to hear from you, and even tho darren isn't here..we are, and congratulations! You've been working hard and should feel very proud of your accomplishments! I know there is a hollownes to your victory, but this is your life now,and you're doing it well!

and linda...so many women say that is the reason why they fear getting into another relationship...only to lose again, and as we age that is very possible. But....then what do we rally lose? another chance at some happiness, some comfort? everything in life leads to loss...that's the end result, and whether it's sooner or later...well..you know. he has been forthright with you and dealing with it, and there are so many great ways to deal with prostrate cancer...i hope it all turns out well, but, meanwhile, his honesty is encouraging.

and i ceratinly don't feel guilty..unless, of course i'm in a beat myself up mood...he was a grown man...and he fought me tooth and nail when i urged him to take better care of himself, i finally pretty much stopped, it was useless. and i resent it, i'm mad at him, and mad at how his stubborness may have cost him his life and so badly screwed up mine and our boy's...but i do not feel guilty. Nor should any of us.....we do what we can, and that's it. we're all grownups....

I'm so apprecaitive of the discussions and the honesty that has been on the board lately..these are all hard things to talk about...you are, we are, all incredibly brave.

michele

[lindat]

Michele, I know you are right - it is so worth the risk. I have to get some rest and get adjusted to the idea so that I can be supportive - thanks for your reply, it really helped

[misshimstill]

Lindaat, I agree with Michele that if you choose to not get involved in another relationship because of fear of losing again, you may be losing the chance for some happiness again. My brother-in-law just got married again at 78. His wife died three years ago of cancer, and we were afraid the last year or so that we were going to lose him, too. He was really going downhill. Then he met Lou. She has turned him around. When I met her she told me that even though they are as old as they are, they figure they should "go for it" because they may still have another 10 years or so and they want to be as happy during that time as they can. Sure, one of them will die... someday... but in the meantime they have each other instead of more years of lonliness. I sure understand the fear. I have it myself. My second husband just was diagnosed with prostate cancer himself. All these years I've been afraid he would die, too. Now here it was, so it seemed. But he had the surgery and now is completely cancer free, as much as if he had never had the cancer, and probably another 20 or 30 years left to live. Just another encouragement to take a chance and have a life!

[justamom]

Hi girls, I can totally relate to Linda with the fear of a new relationship. My husband wasn't sick so I never had to deal with any of that, but I still have this horrible fear of having to deal with the death of another man. I seriously don't know if I could survive it again. I am a paranoid nut a good deal of the time and I have seriously unrealistic fears, for both my children and hockey boy. It doesn't help that he is 10 years older than me and in a really nasty, stressful divorce. His soon to be ex-wife is in a relationship with a pretty "shady" character (Sounds like a soap I know!) who loves to threaten him with violence on a pretty regular basis. So I am always on edge. Is it worth it? I have no idea. The police are involved so that gives me some peace. I am just trying to take one day at a time.

As far as men keeping stuff from us - my husband owned a business that I tried really hard to be a part of but, he kept me in the dark about alot of the fanancial issues that I have spent the last 15 months trying to clean up. Honestly, I hate every bit of the business now. I hate that he kept stuff from me and I hate having to deal with it and it makes me really angry with him and I hate that. So I can kind of realte on a diferent level. I guess I have realized that he was just aman - I loved him more than anything but he was just a man with lots of faults.

Brandi, CONGRATULATIONS! You should be proud of yourself. I think that Darren will be with you as you finish this educational journey and be so proud of you as well. Especially since you didn't give up, you finished. That is awesome. I am getting ready to take my GRE's and apply to grad school. I haven't been in school for quite a while and I really don't know if I can do it and be a single parrent at the same time. You give me inspiration that you finished it with all that you have going on as well.

Hope you all have a good day. Peace. Lisa

[misshimstill]

Well, sorry to be on so much. I seem to be the last one on at night and the first one on in the morning. But it helps to talk. I'm sure you all know what I mean. I made my last posting when I was up in the middle of the night - again. Now this is after another sleepless (or fragmented sleeping) night and it looks like the beginning of another long day of thoughts and memories. I add my cry to all of yours, why does it have to last so long, knowing as I do it that "it takes as long as it takes", but in the midst of it, it sure would be nice if there seemed to be some end in sight. Does anyone relate?

There was a woman who logged on some pages back (in my back reading). I don't know if she's logged on in a while or not. Her screen name was Meganlost. If you're still reading, Megan, I understand your sense of loss after such a short time of being together and being pregnant. My marriage was 2-1/2 years, and I was 8 weeks pregnant when he died, not long enough for him to have known for sure. In fact, I had the pregnancy test the day after his funeral. I am well acquainted with the feelings of sadness that your child will never know his/her daddy. The feelings the day my daughter was born were such a mixture of joy at having her and sadness that he wasn't there to share the moment with me, much less play with her, hold her, raise her, walk down the isle with her, etc. Now that she has children of her own, I look at them and wish he could know them, wonder what he would think of them, etc. It still gives me great sadness that she never knew him and as a grown woman shows no interest in any of my memories of him. "She has a dad" is her thinking, my present husband who raised her, and he's been a great - no, wonderful - dad to her. But I wish she had any interest, even just a tiny flicker, in her biological dad. I look at her - she looks just like him and so does her youngest - and wonder, "how can you have no interest? It isn't like he wanted to die, wanted to leave us, wanted to never know you!" But what good does any of those thoughts do? They will never change her thinking. So I cry privately and then put on a face publically and feel helpless to change anything. These are some of the thoughts that keep me awake at night and keep me sad in the day. Anybody relate? ~Oneta

[misshimstill]

Well, here I am - AGAIN. I could sit here all day and read all your writings. So many of you say what I feel and think. We can't ALL be crazy, can we? Maybe what we're feeling is - normal?. What's normal, anyway? I wonder if anyone really knows. I was reading about what some of you wrote about the PSSD. The psychiatrist who I finally went to at my husband's urging told me that I had experienced PSSD when Lamar died. I was alone with him when it happened, it was December 23rd, a Saturday, two days before Christmas. No one was at home when I called them. The doctor who I had been trying to call all day long never called me. Then Lamar just got up and said he was going to lie down in the bedroom because his chest was hurting so bad. He got up, walked down the hallway and collapsed outside the bedroom door. I tried to pull him up. Crazy thing to do. The guy was at least 6 ft 2 in and over 200 pounds. But like an idiot, I tried to pull him to his feet! But he was gone... I couldn't think what to do. I just kept trying to call people, but no one was at home that afternoon. Someone talked about backflashes. I've had them, too. Couldn't stop having them for a while. Now not so much. But the sick-in-the-pit-of-your-stomach feeling never really goes away. So hard to concentrate on my work, but I must get back to it and try again. ~Oneta

[bsnurse76]

Thank you ladies for the wonderful words of encouragement as my journey with school comes to an end. This site has been a huge support for me the last six months. Lisa-I had to take the GRE before I went back to school 3 years ago. I bought the kaplan GRE book and CD. It helped a lot. Best of luck with the exam. It was a very hard decision to go back 3 years ago. I knew I would be unable to work yet still have bills. It was stressful but worth it. I say to you go for it. I have full faith that you can do it. School now seems easy compared to losing the man I loved. Is that weird? Hope everyone has a wonderful day. Brandi

[missinmyhubby]

It’s been some time since you have gone

This poem is the first

I still miss you now as I did then

Oh God, how this still hurts.

I’ve tried so many times before

To write to you from here

But doing so just confirms

The deepest of my fears.

I don’t want to write these letters

It just means you’re not coming home

It means I have to face the fact

That you have left us here alone.

The kids are growing oh so big

They miss you just as I

We laugh now at some memories

Other times though, we still cry.

Today the tears keep falling

I can’t get you off my mind

I long to touch and kiss you

And hold you one more time.

I miss you each and every day

I still love you heart and soul

You will always be a part of me

My half that made me whole.

I miss you…

[misshimstill]

That's very beautiful. Thank you for sharing it. ~Oneta

It’s been some time since you have gone

This poem is the first

I still miss you now as I did then

Oh God, how this still hurts.

I’ve tried so many times before

To write to you from here

But doing so just confirms

The deepest of my fears.

I don’t want to write these letters

It just means you’re not coming home

It means I have to face the fact

That you have left us here alone.

The kids are growing oh so big

They miss you just as I

We laugh now at some memories

Other times though, we still cry.

Today the tears keep falling

I can’t get you off my mind

I long to touch and kiss you

And hold you one more time.

I miss you each and every day

I still love you heart and soul

You will always be a part of me

My half that made me whole.

I miss you…

[missyouhoney811]

Good Morning - Just like everyone else I read everday, it works as my comfort to get me through the day to reassure me that I am not alone. I took a down turn since my fall. I am thankful I do not need surgery but I have to keep the brace on for another 4 weeks. Could be worse. Having too much time with myself gave me the blues. I actually saw my main doctor and he wanted me to start on a happpy pill. I did, so far I have 4 in my system. Remember me I am the one that does not believe in happy pills and here I am trying them out. Looking for reasons to get off them. We shall see.

All of you take care.

Dorothy

[aprilmoonflower]

Dorothy- I'm so sorry your arm is taking so long to heal! as for the happy pills. you do what you need to do to feel better!!! take care of yourself!

Brandi- congrats! you did it! =)

Oneta- don't worry about how much you are on/posting! whatever helps! I go through spurts myself, but I am usually around checking several times a day myself.lol. the interenet is my only solace somedays!

LOve the poem Angel.

[armaiti]

Dorothy, so sorry about your arm! And Brandi, congratulations!

Today is nine months since Ishaq passed away. I can't believe that much time has passed. Had trouble sleeping last night, and I'm tired today...Ishaq's sister and her husband are here through tonight, we've had a good visit. They're out running some errands, and I needed a little alone time because of the day anyway. I'm just feeling really sad today, missing Ishaq's presence, his laughter filling the house, him playing his guitar, visiting with his family when they are here...so many memories. It's one of those grey days in Oregon with no rain, but no sun, just kinda cold and grey. I'm still tired out from being so sick. I'm working hard on getting ready to start selling at the crafts market, but sometimes I feel just, well, blah. There will always be good days and bad days I guess, and these monthly anniversary dates are hard.

Hope you all have a peaceful day,

Anna

[naz496]

Waht a beauitiful poem.

brandi congratulations well done.

dorothy Im sorry to hear about your arm.

Finally got Mals plaque and put it on the site we chose today. I am not ready to part with hisa ashes yet so the kids pick a trck each that they use to play with daddy and they did a drawing for daddy, so we burries this under his plaquw, and we had his favorite songs playing. I just wanted his plaue at the crematorium. I thought it would make a huge difference in my sorrow, and somehow make it better. But it hasnt. I dont know that its made a single ounce of difference. My little 3yo want to take flowers to daddy today but I dont know that I can today.

Had an eventful week. Dr Sent me to hospital as I have had chest pain(I know its from stress).2 little ones at home no father no income , fighting an estate in court and Oh the death of my husband. STRESS.

Had to get up before a judge in court. it was a bit nerve racking.

Checked my heart everything ok.I think it is my heart just breaking from the sorrow I feel.

I too am against happy pills but after only 4 mths the dr feels that I would greatly benifit. I have taken them but agaist me better judgement.

Mals best mate too has had chest pain this week. I am 34 and he is 37. Too young for chest pain they tell us. but my husband died from heart disease at 37. he went to the dr many many times in the past few mths before he died.. they checked his heart regulary. it was checked 2 days before he died.I will never understand how no dr pick up that he had heart disease. He had had it for years apparently. and all the symptoms

I went to a memorial today for people that left for work and never came home.

It made me angry seeing the people there that had died needlessly because bossos put the bottom dollar before peoples safety. I know and the dr has told me that Mal died as an indirect result of his bosses actions. No person can work 18-28hr shifts driving trucks and him not expect anything to happen.The stress that this boss caused Mal and the lack of sleep was horrific. He did quit his job but to little to late.

I get chest apin just talking about this and the court case. How can I stop this it is very unpleasant. does anyone else have this problem.

oh well must go and wash the floors whilst I feel capable of doing so. kids are out side playing.

cant reply to everyone post but I read every day, and it helps know we are not the only ones, out there.

Hope everyone finds a little comfprt today.

naz

[missinmyhubby]

Hey all....just a little catch up. My computer crashed due to some ad ware program I have that took an important file and dumped it, thereby costing me over 150 bucks to get it fixed at Best Buy...grrrrrrr. So, I was off line for about a week and a half. Since then, I have tried to read an catch up on everyone's postings.

Anna, sorry you were feeling so ill. I am happy to hear Ishaq's sister and her husband are there for you right now.

Dorothy, are you okay???

April, I miss ya girl!!!

Brandi...YOU GO GIRL!!!!!

And everyone else....big hugs...sorry, I will keep reading and catching up.

I see we have more new people

Well, last Friday marked the day that we would have had our 6 year anniversary. Ohhhh, how it has been tough. Nobody in the house said a word about it. I found that really odd actually. It kind of hurt my feelings. Then the next day my husband asked if I was okay. (I am remarried for those who don't know me yet.) I was like, yeah, but it was yesterday, not today. He said, "I know, but you seemed to be doing okay and I didn't want to make you sad by bringing it up." Oh, and of course that brought me to tears, just minutes before I was leaving to go up to North Carolina for the weekend. (That's another story in itself.) Then both the older two kids said almost the same exact thing. They were all watching me not fall apart and were afraid to say anything to me. I find it sweet now, but they still don't see the hurt that is always there. So, yeah, I made it through, but the last week has been very blue. I have felt very disconnected and discombobulated. I think yesterday was the worse.

I have another problem...please feel free to give feedback. My DH was the one who was always there beside/behind me and helped me get to where I was in my career. He was the only reason, outside of my hard work and efforts, that I was able to get to where I was when he passed away. I know you probably recall back in Nov/Dec when I was talking of that job offer in Naples. Well, I was scared to take it and wasn't really sure why. I knew he would have been so proud of me for getting myself back on track and climbing back up again. However, it fell through and that was okay....what's meant to be will be, right? Okay, now, I went up to North Carolina about six weeks ago and was offered a job with a bigger company, and one that will put me back on track with furthering my career. I went up there again this past weekend to fly with them on a ride along, and had a good time, considering. I took my 14 year old daughter with me, and we drove around some of the outlying areas, to just get a feel of what it was like in the Raleigh area. I got home late Tuesday night and awoke in the middle of the night with so much apprehension it's not even funny. I have nailed it down to this. I think that is bothers me to move ahead without him, because I kind of feel like he is suppose to be here to see the progress. Yes, I have my new husband, and yes, he is very supportive as most of you know. But, that doesn't make everything just go away and make life perfect again. Why am I getting such anxiety about this, it really seems stupid? I am not the type to have unfounded fears or anxiety. I am excited about this opportunity and at the same time, well, it's hard to explain the feelings...but knots in my stomach does explain it somewhat (like sick to my stomach knots.) I have never gotten counseling either for this, you girls on here have been my support. So please, analyze away, but help with some suggestions would be much appreciated!!!!

As for the topic regarding getting involved again...why can we not love two men? Why do a lot of people seem to find that disloyal to our lost loves? I guess I believe it is better to have loved and lost, then to never love at all.

Misshimstill-can you tell me more about you?

Anywho, I feel like I am rambling tonight. I have lots on my mind, and am not feeling too focused.

I miss you all!!! And to the new members...may you find comofort and peace here with us.

BIG BIG (((((HUGS)))))

Angel

[missyouhoney811]

Naz, I also had the terrible, deep chest pains. I actually ended up in the emergency rooom three times. I do have a condition they call mitro valve prolapse which makes the heart beat a little strange with a clicking sound and after Johns death needless to say the beating went a bit wacky. Although, I am not under any medication for this condition at present time. I tend to know when to have it checked out now. As far as the happy pills. I have been on them since tuesday and I am ready to off them. My sleep pattern now sucks and I have a headache from hell since I have been on them. Not to mention the upset stomach from taking them. I plan on calling the doctor this morning and ask him the proper way to wean off. I just can't take them. If I need to I might get in contact with a therapist. The main thing is to talk to someone when I feel low.

Angel, welcome back.

Anna, hope you are feeling better with spirits high.

[aprilmoonflower]

Angel- I'm so sorry no one acknowledged the day Friday. ugh., that sucks. even though they did it out of love.. also the way you feel regarding your carrer,etc., it's not stupid at all. You are moving ahead, so of course it's natural to be sad, as he's not here to see it. =( i think it just manifests itself in so many different ways that creep back into your thoughts. at least for me it's that way...the anxiety just goes along with it at times.ugh. I think it's only natural though in your situation, don't you? hang in there! the move will be worth it!

[armaiti]

Angel - I'm sorry also that your family didn't speak of your anniversary. It's sad, we remember each day with such clarity, but others may not, or not know how to express feelings about it around us. I loved your poem, too.

Ishaq's sister and her husband just left, on to further journeys. We had a lovely visit, they helped me get the front garden strip ready for planting my dahlias. I'm so behind from being sick. They were really supportive of my new business selling my art on t-shirts, pillows and all, even bought a piece.

Last night we went out to mine and Ishaq's favorite restaurant. They always serve this free appetizer of deep-fried green olives - sounds wierd, but they are great and Ishaq loved them! I haven't been back since he passed. It seemed really appropriate to go with them, as they took him there one year for his birthday dinner. Then we came home and watched a video I have of Ishaq and I singing a couple of songs at an Interfaith Service a couple of years ago. I love that I can see him like this whenever I want. There's a point where we are done and I get up to adjust the microphone for the next piece and he is smiling at me and I can see the love in his eyes. It makes me so happy to have this visual remembrance of him.

Hope you all have a good Sunday, or at least a peaceful one!

Blessings,

Anna

[mishknit]

angel...

your note really touched me. it is hard to move ahead without our guys...that feeling of guilt is strong. I'm not sure how to get past it except to "barrel through", and know that they would want us to be happy and successful and have a good life.

hard tho...

michele

[fourleafclover]

Hi there.

Aprilmoonflower: Thank you for your suggestions. To find closure, I would have to learn more about the "missing years" before he died. I tried and found his parents. His mom so badly wanted to see me, and we scheduled a date to get together. Unfortunately, we were provinces apart and I could'nt make it on the specific date. She told me that there was so much she needed me to know but not over the phone. I tried to call her again, and learnt with horror that they had moved back to Spain. My world fell apart...she was my only link. Mutual friends etc. were all scattered around the world and I just can't find anyone who knows more? Maybe if I could just have spent the day with her, it wouldn't have been so bad.

Armaiti and Misshimstill:

Yes, the counselling is definitely not something I'd want to explore. As I mentioned previously, it was distastrous for me when I was younger. Misshimsstill: I can so hear what you're saying, especially with your experience. Isn't it just heartbreaking to know all this when it's just too late? Is it fair? I know of the torment and torture that we go through and especially the guilt. As Armaiti suggested, to talk to him...to tell him how I feel. I've done that so many, many times. I have gone to "our" meeting place where we used to meet up when we were tiny tots and I have shouted at him, I have pleaded with him and I have just sat there and sobbed. Like you said, the biggest problem I think is to not know what was going on...what was he feeling...what on earth was he thinking to just shut me out like that? How could he? Yes, that's the hardest part. Misshimstill, I still feel better. I thought that it was just a "high" after pouring everything out, but I do still feel better. I'm just so angry today...but I know this too, will pass. You guys are truly amazing... Misshimstill, I think about you too and my heart hurts so badly when I read about your experience. I looked at my children this morning and I know that there was a reason for all this. I realise for the first time that had I known, or had I been there for him and watch him die...I probably would've gone with him. I know today, that he was my life and had I not been separated from him...I would not have been able to live without him. I don't know if staying behind is better for me? I don't know if tomorrow will bring a little more peace, but I do know...I will love him everyday of my life. I do know, that my children need a mother and my beautiful husband needs a better wife...I need to try harder. Just sometimes, I just wanna go to William. Did he make the ultimate sacrifice for me? Did he miss me and think about me? These are the things I want to know. I know he suffered...it would have killed me. Oh Misshimstill, is this life just limbo, a sort of a foggyness we are just trying to get through? Please remember that I am thinking of you, everyday.

[fourleafclover]

Hello all. I spoke to soon...another sleepless night. I was laying in bed thinking (as I do most nights) about William when it suddenly hit me. Tomorrow is our birthday...and both of us will be 37. Sigh! I despise birthdays lately and it just makes me even more miserable for a few days afterwards. My husband and children do their best to make it wonderful for me and I know how hard they try. I try to be "normal" for their sake and show them that I have a wonderful time. But no matter how hard I try, my heart just feels completely heavy. Talk about self pity!!! I have so much to be grateful for, and then a stupid birthday just spoils everything again. Urgh!!! So many of my fondest memories of William ocurred on our birthday. Firsts of almost everything happened when we shared the day. My first bunch of lilies; my four leaf clover pendant; my first kiss (ever); just about all my firsts happened on this day. The funny thing is...he always said that we would marry on this day. I remember our 17th birthday. We were sitting on the beach late one night (after all the festivities) and told me what the plans were for the future. He had our whole lives planned out. It was so real... Happy birthday Spanish Eyes...I love you...everyday of my life and sometimes...I feel that we need to be together...just like we used to.

[misshimstill]

Dear new friends, We went to Houston for the weekend to the wedding of a daughter of 30-year-old friends. I got back and logged on to read what you had written while I was gone. I read this: Oh Misshimstill, is this life just limbo, a sort of a foggyness we are just trying to get through? Please remember that I am thinking of you, everyday.

Fourleaf, I read your words and hear so much pain in them. I will reply very off the cuff, but from my heart. No, this life is not limbo, and it is not all there is to look forward to. It does feel pretty foggy most of the time, which is why my faith is so important to me because it gives me direction. I do believe that this life is just momentary and fleeting. It seems to last forever while we are in our pain, but I have to remind myself nearly every day about of the words of Jesus to us that He has prepared a better place for those who trust in Him. I believe this with all my heart. He has told us that in this “better place” He will wipe every tear from our eyes and there will be no more sad farewells, and we will be together with Him for Eternity. Then, it will all be worth it. Hard to wrap your mind around? It is for me. But I have placed all my trust in Him, and I believe His words to be true, and they are Life. One of you a couple of weeks back said of Easter Sunday that it reminds us that Jesus has conquered death and the grave. That is the hope that I cling to. That is the hope that gets me through the day – and the sleepless night. I grieve, just like all of you, and I grieve deeply, just like all of you. But I do not grieve as those who have no hope. I grieve as one who has put her trust in Jesus Christ and has found Him to be true to His word in my life. We all, every one of us, have our memories that we cling to. We remember a certain look in his eye, or a certain touch of his or the way he tilted his head or the feel of his lips on ours or the feel of his arms around us in the night. But if I only had these memories to live on, I would surely die. What gives me joy in the midst of my great pain is the promise of my Savior that I will see Lamar again, and it will be a joyous reunion. We will never again be parted. We will never again experience the pain of grief. I will never again experience the fear of his dying before I do or the fear I still carry that now Jack will die before I do, so I will have to say goodbye to him, as well, and then live years alone... again. I relate very much to the fear that some of you have expressed, who question if you should remarry or not because of the fear of being left behind… again. In this "better place", I will not be left behind ever again. I know that in this "better place" I will never again experience the pain of having to face the rest of my life without him, which was the most painful experience of my life at 21 years of age. And somehow, and I don’t know how this will be done, but somehow Jesus will make all of this grief… not matter anymore. How will He do that? I have no idea. But I believe it with all my heart.

Some of you have written that you have chest pains. You have sleepless nights. You have nights when you cry yourself to sleep… or you just cry, not sleeping, but lie awake wishing for the momentary unconsciousness that brings some relief to your pain… or maybe an occasion to dream of him again. You question decisions you have made or have to make. You regret “moving on” without him. You feel guilty because you feel you don’t give your children (or your husbands if you have remarried) your full attention. You feel misunderstood by them and by your friends. I feel most of these things, too. I have had chest pains for two years, nearly every day of my life, that are just "stress pains", I know. I lie awake at night. I cry at odd times during the day or night. I feel constantly like I am not giving my husband, children and grandchildren the love and attention they deserve. One of you just today was feeling low because you had just passed another anniversary, and no one around you seemed to know about it. When I logged onto this website a week ago, it was what would have been our 37th anniversary, but instead only marks the anniversary of an amputated marriage. No one in my family, not even the daughter of that marriage, remembers it or thinks of it or knows that I’m thinking of it and have been thinking of it for weeks before it comes. I know how you felt on Friday when no one remembered. Fourleaf, I’m glad that you can see good in the midst of the bad. You say that you probably would have “gone with him”. You don’t know if “staying behind” is the right thing to do. I will really pray for you to begin to find the peace that you are seeking. Two years ago I was in such emotional pain that I was trying to shorten the years of waiting that I knew still lay ahead of me, but I realized that I couldn’t do that. My times are in His hands, not my own. He alone holds my future. I trust in Him to always know what is best for me. Maybe some day I will understand… Until then, I wait… and I trust. I hope I haven’t offended any of you by what I have said, but it is my personal response to Fourleaf’s question. I have spent probably two hours writing this response. I wrote it once and it timed out on me, so I had to rewrite it, and I keep adding to it, deleting some things from it, etc.

No, this life isn’t limbo. And it certainly isn’t all there is. There is something much better, and I look forward to it. Until then, like all of you, I put one foot in front of the other and go on… somehow. It’s very hard. No one around us (unless it would be another widow or widower) knows our pain… knows how hard life is for us. That’s why it’s good we have this website. It’s good we can encourage one another.

To whichever one of you who asked me to tell you more about myself, I will do it in another writing. I noticed that one of you had written your full story on your profile, which I read and enjoyed. Maybe enjoyed is not a good word… I don’t know. It’s hard to get the background on each of you by reading only your postings. I have gone back something like 20 pages, reading and rereading what you have written to try to “know” each of you better. It’s hard since we’ve not met each other face to face to remember which story goes with which screen name and each personal name that some of you have been willing to give. Maybe each of us could find the time someday to write our own stories for the others to read. I have a sick granddaughter with me today. She started running a fever after we got to Houston Saturday, and then started throwing up Sunday afternoon (thankfully after we had gotten back home!). Today she seems to be mostly better, but not all the way yet. Even though I’m a grandmother, I still feel like some of you who are raising children. My youngest daughter, who is the mother of this sick granddaughter, has many emotional problems. She is bipolar and suffers a great deal with that. She finds full-time motherhood, along with a full-time job, too much to bear, so Rachel is living with my husband and me. So here I am, at 55, raising another child. It’s pretty hard, but Rachel is so worth it and is such a bright child and we love her so much. The last thing I want her to feel growing up is that she was just a “burden”, so even in the midst of my grief, like most of you, I try to put my sadness aside and care for her as she deserves.

I know this has been long. Again, hope I haven’t offended any of you, but I think here on this website we pretty much write from our hearts and let everyone think and believe according to their own way. This is mine. Would welcome any responses from any of you. ~Oneta

[misshimstill]

I received this in an email from my new sister-in-law who just married my 78-year-old brother-in-law. I thought you guys might appreciate reading it. ~Oneta

THE SCARS OF LIFE

"Love is when God became man."

Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house. In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back door, leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went. He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

His father, working in the yard, saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling to his son as loudly as he could.

Hearing his voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was too late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.

From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father, but the father was much too passionate to let go.

A farmer happened to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim and shot the alligator.

Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in his effort to hang on to the son he loved.

The newspaper reporter who interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him his scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride, he said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go."

You and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars, too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past. Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep regret. But some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let you go. In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to you.

The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of God. He wants to protect you and provide for you in every way. But sometimes we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what lies ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-of-war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your arms, be very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.

[misshimstill]

Waynesliljeanne, I notice that you are one of the few who has written more in your profile. I can't find a way to do that. Could you tell me how you did yours? Thanks. ~Oneta or Misshimstill

[armaiti]

Oneta - I don't think you have offended anyone. I am glad you have such a strong faith that nourishes you. Even though my spiritual tradition and beliefs are very different from yours, I honor your beliefs. Ishaq and I were very involved in our local Interfaith service here, where once a month people of all different religions and spiritual traditions come together to offer prayers and songs and readings, based on the monthly theme. Each program usually has 8-10 different traditions. It really shows how people with very different beliefs and backgrounds can come together in mutual understanding, without judgement, and I think that's what we do here.

I too know I'll be with Ishaq when I cross over, though my belief of how that will be is different from yours. I think we each end up as we believe; so for me, I will walk with Ishaq for a time as we appeared on earth and then, who knows? I believe in reincarnation, so perhaps we will choose our next life to be a longer, healthier one together. I feel that once I cross over into the next phase of existence, so much will be clear to me that I can't possibly know now. Just glimpses, that Ishaq sends me in dreams sometimes. I remember that he didn't use to have vivid dreams like I did. I'd wake up and tell him some amazing dream that was totally epic or mystical and he'd say, "all I dreamt was that I was at a Red Cross meeting all night!". So I think he reaches me in dreams now because he knows that's where I'm most receptive, that I already have that ability to recall my dreams. Though sometimes they get mixed up...I had a dream a few months ago where Ishaq and I were traveling with Willie Nelson and a kangeroo...somehow I don't think that was a message (other than don't eat potato chips late at night!). But other dreams have been amazing...About two weeks after he passed, I dreamt that I stood watching him walk on a mountain road, the spirit trail. Next to him was a huge brown bear, carrying a salmon in its mouth. Ishaq turned and smiled at me, then walked on with the bear on the path through the mountains. I was left behind, but in the dream, I wasn't sad. It was like he was going first, to pave the way and to teach me so I could follow eventually. The bear in many Native traditions lives in the direction of the West, the direction of the ancestors, and where Ishaq was going. And I know I'll walk that trail when I cross over, and he'll be there waiting for me.

I'm trying to live each day to honor his memory, his spirit. I know I wouldn't want him to hurt so much if I had died first, I would want him to be happy, and I know he wants that for me. I have to remember that this life is a gift, and to try to do my best here. It's not easy, missing my beloved so much. I don't get chest pains, but I often feel like there is a piece that has been cut from my heart, and it aches like something is missing, which is it.

I pray for each of us that we find ways to heal and feel strong, and find happiness here while we walk the earth. I'm going to go work in our garden, and plant like I did last year, and I'll lay the first fruits on Ishaq's altar.

Blessings to you all,

Anna Armaiti

[misshimstill]

Dang it! I timed out again!

Anna, I had just written that I am very glad to have not offended you in what I said. I enjoy hearing what we all have to say to each other.

I had also written of the dreams that I have. I have had a lot of dreams that I thought were significant dreams. I'll type fast(er) than I did before so I don't time out again.

I had a dream when I was 13 before my older brother got married and our younger brother died. The dream seemed to be of a wedding, but the wedding march seemed like a funeral march. I knew at the time it was my brother's wedding because the bride was my future (at that time) sister-in-law. I never told anyone about the dream for years after that.

The second significant dream was of Lamar. This happened, again, about a year and a half before he died. In the dream, he died when I was just in the early months of pregnancy, the baby was a girl, and I married my present husband. Now, I don't see any way I could have MADE that whole thing happen. Maybe some of it, but certainly not all of it. Again, I didn't tell anyone about it. When Lamar got sick, did I think of it and think maybe it had some meaning? Maybe it would have given me a clue and I would have been expecting it instead of total denial when he got sick. Maybe it would have given me the perspective that God was in control of it all, so I should trust Him to take care of me. I don't know. But I didn't give any thought to it, so I went blindly ahead, totally unexpecting the events that were shortly to enfold around me.

Since the resurfacing of my grief, I have had several dreams of him that were in some ways like ones others have shared that they have had. Most of them seem to suggest some level of frustration on my part that he's there, but I can't get to him, can't get his attention, can't stay with him because he has to leave and I can't go with him. I had one dream that was a very sweet dream and which seemed so real. When I was in the process of waking up and coming out of the dream, I could still feel him with me and could still feel him and smell him and taste him. I think some of you will know what I mean. Then, of course, as I woke up more it was just so sad to know it was just a dream and again, I was frustrated in the feeling of not being able to remain with him.

Such is the life of a widow, I guess... even a widow of 34-and-counting years.

Well, my granddaugher's fever is coming up again and wants me to hold her. Looks like another day tomorrow of her being at home from school... ~Oneta

[armaiti]

Oneta - what you describe at the end of your post - the last dream where you are with him and can remember your senses of being there, touching him, etc. - those are one of the signs that it wasn't just a dream, but was a visitation. In my belief these aren't dreams, but we are really traveling in a way. What I feel is this - and a lot of this is in line with current theories of quantum physics - everything in the universe vibrates at a certain level. We are made of particles that are constantly in motion. Of course, we can't see that, it seems we are solid, but we really aren't. When someone dies and their spirit leaves their body, they are still existing, but at a different vibrational level. And different people will manifest in different ways, just like in our earthly bodies we all have different talents and abilities.

When I've had what I call "lucid" dreams with Ishaq, I know that I am in a different place. I've tried to stay there as long as I have, and when I come back it isn't like waking it up - it's more like a "fade" from one place to another. There was a dream where I woke up with a start, and I'm in bed with Ishaq and I said "Ishaq, you're here!" He said "where else should I be?". Then I remembered he had died and knew I was with him in the vibrational plane or dimension or whatever where we could connect - a friend of mine likes to call it "the mezzanine between the worlds". I tried to stay with him as long as possible. I'd turned the light on in this space, but then it started to get darker and the next thing I knew I was back in my bed, alone. I didn't feel sad, though, I felt happy that I could connect with him, and knew that I would be able to be there with him again.

Most dreams he comes to show me things or tell me things, or just be with me, but a few have been the lucid/dimensional travel. It sounds like your Lamar came to you this way. It also sounds like you have the ability to connect this way through your dreams, that this is a talent of yours, but training would help. I've spent about 25 years doing dreamwork, so it's not surprising to me that I can recall most of my dreams and connect with Ishaq this way. There are some good books on lucid dreaming by a man named Stephen LaBerge, but I've found to just remember when I wake up each time what I dreamt is the best way, and I keep a dream journal of all my significant dreams, especially with Ishaq.

Peace,

Anna

[misshimstill]

Anna, This makes some sense to me, even with my Christian beliefs. I believe that those in Heaven are on a different plane or dimension that we are. Before my mother died I spent about a month with her. My sister-in-law and I took turns staying with her through the night to "push the pump" (pain pump) every 15 minutes. This is a long story, but I'll try to tell it briefly (especially I have gotten timed out twice). She was very obviously seeing into that dimension, seeing things and people that I couldn't see. I know at one point she was seeing an angel. Another time she was waving at someone. My sister-in-law asked her who she was waving at, and she said, "James (my father), and the boys (my two brothers who had died) are with him." I know that the dying often see into this realm.

As for those who are living in that realm now and their ability to "communicate" with us, I do not doubt that it can happen. I don't know if that is what was happening in that dream or not. It certainly was the most "real" dream I had ever had or have had since. I did sort of "fade out" of it, if I understand you correctly to be what you're saying, and it seemed that the "dream state" seemed to last longer than it usually does after I wake up from a dream. I have not studied dreams as you say you have, but I believe that God often communicates with us in our dreams. I know there is a lot out there on the subject, some flaky and I'm sure some not so flaky. I used to keep a journel in which I kept an account of dreams I have had during this time, but I got rid of them about a year ago for also reasons that would take a long time to explain. I pretty much remember those that I have written down. Several years ago a book that I read about dreams said that if we wake up after a dream, we should write it down, especially if it happens in teh middle of the night, because we probably won't remember it if we don't. There have been lots of times when I have had dreams but didn't remember the details after I woke up, even if I thought I could never forget it right after I woke up. I don't know if you have found this to be true or not. It's certainly an interesting subject. I have felt for years that I have what I would call a "gifting" in dreams (I would call it a prophetic gifting), but haven't ever developed it. This is an interesting subject to discuss. I have read with interest some of what the other women have said about dreams, but you seem to be the most developed in it or seem to understand the most what is happening. I often hope I will dream about him or ask God to let me dream about him, but it certainly doesn't happen with any regularity. Also, I don't really like the frustrating nature of most of them.

Anyway, an interesting subject. Well, "24" is about to come on. Must stop to watch how Jack Bauer saves the world! ~Oneta

[misshimstill]

Anna, Just one more thing, quickly. What did you mean when you said, "Then I remembered he had died and knew I was with him in the vibrational plane or dimension or whatever where we could connect - a friend of mine likes to call it "the mezzanine between the worlds". I tried to stay with him as long as possible. I'd turned the light on in this space, but then it started to get darker and the next thing I knew I was back in my bed, alone."

You said you had "turned the light on in this space". What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean that you had entered into this place and then it started to fade? ~Oneta

[armaiti]

In the dream, or in the place I was in, it looked like our bedroom, and when I woke up in that space it was nighttime, and I sat up and turned on the lamp next to the bed so I could see Ishaq and talk to him. That's what I meant. So the room was light then, since I'd turned the lamp on, but when I faded from that reality to my own reality, it was dark because it was night here where I live, in this dimension.

[naz496]

I have been reading all your posts.I dont dream about Mal and I sooooo want to. I think because Im still in denial. I know he is dead but I feel that one day he will come home. I would love to dream about him.

Started on the happy pills as requested by dr, and am not sure about them. I feel like I am betraying Mal. I now seem to have more energy, and am a bit happier in myself and have more patience with the kids, which I know is good thing, but I dont feel horribly sad, anymore.and I do want to be sad.I want to cry and I want to miss him but I dont feel that I do anymore.I miss what my kids dont have anymore and I miss the fighting about Mal coming home and being so tired and cranky. Give me this cranky tired Man back anyday and I promise I let him be cranky and not nag him about it.I feel guilty for taking these pills as I dont feel that I am able to grieve for Mal.I dont want to be happy I dont want to do nice things I just want him back. even if its was making us miserable. I want this miserable feeling back again. MY one worst fear was that Mal would kill himself from working so hard and that is exactly what he did.. Why would he not listen.why would he not slow down. I dont want to be alone for the rest of my life. I went for a drive past some farms today and longed for the fact that Mal wanted to move to a property. He was a country boy.. I wish I to could find comfprt in religion. I am angry at God for taking MAl how could God possibly need him more than His 7 and 3yo and myself. Life without Mal in it is horrible and I dont want it to be this way. I just want him back home.. I still cant look at his photos for any longer that a second, as it is to sad, and I would have to admit that he is gone then, and I dont want to.

Naz

[misshimstill]

Hello all. Just logged on and read Naz’s post. Been reading and reading all your writings. Everyone’s is so sad, and I’m sad, too. I think sometimes that sadness is a state that I will live in for the rest of my life.

Naz and all of you who have tried - or may be trying - or are thinking of trying “happy pills” and are feeling guilty about it, please don’t. I say that, but I understand completely the feeling. If we could just crawl into a hole and pull it in over us, it wouldn’t matter. But (I'm not sure if this is fortunately or unfortunately) we have others we have to think about. I'm sure we all have family or friends who love us and worry about us (whether they know how to show it or not), even if we do not have small children. I finally got on short-term antidepressants because I just couldn’t function. I had a job and I had a granddaughter to take care of, not to mention my current husband, and I couldn’t just die like I wanted to do. I was afraid that the medication would cover my pain, and I didn’t want it covered. I wanted, just like I have heard so many of you say and like Naz said, to feel the pain. I had repressed it years ago and I didn’t want to do that anymore. I am happy to tell you it didn’t mask the pain! I could still feel the sadness and loneliness. To most people that would sound so crazy – that we don’t really want to feel that much better, but I think we all know what that means. I wonder sometimes if in experiencing the feeling of pain, we feel we connect with the one we love and have lost, and we’re afraid that if we stop hurting we’ll stop remembering. I don’t know. That’s just a theory. Anyway, the pills didn’t cover up the pain, but it did help with my concentration so I could do my job and take care of my granddaughter a little better. Naz, you are not betraying Mal by taking them. I hope that doesn’t upset you to hear that. I do understand the feeling that you have of betraying him, but you aren’t. If they can help you to function a little better, then you should take them. And I add - with a smile - that if you’re wanting to still be miserable as a way of staying connected to Mal, believe me when I say you will still be plenty miserable. The antidepressants can’t bring him back, which is what we all want, so there’s still plenty of unhappiness to be lived through.

Naz, all I will say to you about your anger with God (I assume you have read what I wrote earlier about my feelings about that) is that it’s normal. Most of us feel it. And God is big enough to handle it. It doesn’t upset Him or get Him down in any way. Read the Psalms. Plenty of anger there directed at Him. It sounds to me that you are still fluctuating between anger and denial stages. I was terribly disappointed when I found out that those stages aren’t linear; in other words, we don’t get through them once and not have to deal with them again. They can repeat I don’t know how many times or we can continue in them for I don’t know how long. Acceptance is the last one, and I haven’t hit it yet. I’ve been going through this resurfacing of repressed grief for almost four years now, and I’m still not “through” it. Maybe I never will be. I’ve begun to think that way. I heard Gloria Vanderbilt say on the Oprah Show, speaking of the suicide of her son, that the word “closure” has no meaning for her. I wonder if that’s true for everyone who has had a tragic or devastating loss. Not all losses are equal, I‘ve decided.

As for dreaming, I’m not the expert on the subject that Anna is, but some of my dreams have not been that pleasant. I know you want to dream about Mal; I want to dream more about Lamar. But sometimes when I have a dream about him I just wake up sad, missing him even more. However, when I go to bed at night, I always hope I dream about him again. It brings a form of comfort even as it brings some pain. What I hate most about his having died so long ago (34 years) is that I have completely forgotten the sound of his voice, the feel of his touch, the look in his eyes when he looked at me, the feeling of joy of being in his presence. I’ve forgotten what it feels like to reach up and put my arms around his neck, the width of his shoulders, the feel of his body pressing against mine. I always want to feel that in my dreams, but I seldom do. I think the fact is that there is no perfectly gratifying experience, no complete healing from the pain – because what we all want is to have them back, and that won’t happen in this life. I believe I will see Lamar again in the next life, but not in this one… So we walk around, like some of you have described, as actors on a stage, putting on our faces in public, crying in private. Grief is the most horrible of human emotions, I think; comfort the hardest to find.

I continue to pray for comfort and peace for all of us. Gotta go now. Gotta go back to work. ~Oneta

[armaiti]

Nas, I agree with Oneta, you aren't betraying Mal by taking the pills. He loves you still, and if there is something you can do to help you function, to be there for the kids, I bet he is one hundred percent behind you in supporting you. I didn't do "happy pills", but I did take herbs in the first few months, and still do occasionally if I start feeling too depressed. I feel Ishaq wants me to keep going, to do the best I can while I'm in a body, so I that's what I trying to do.

Oneta, I don't feel like I'm an expert on dreams, I've just done a lot of work involving dreams myself, it's been part of my spiritual practice for a number of years. If I was an expert, I could control my dream travel and be with Ishaq every night, but I can't do that. I don't want to represent myself as anything I'm not; I try to pass information on that might be helpful to others in this process, is all.

Peace,

Anna

[misshimstill]

Anna, I understand the distinction you make between having made dreams part of your spiritual experience and being an "expert". I probably shouldn't have used that word in describing you. But in comparison to me and maybe to others who read this board, you seem like an expert. I guess that's what I meant.

Naz, please take to heart some of what we've said. There are no easy answers, but we need to be able to function, if we can't quite make it to "happy", and if antidepressants help, or herbs help, or whatever we find that helps, we should avail ourselves of that as a resource. I'm concerned about you, as I'm sure others are who read this board. You're all the way in Australia (I think I remember reading that - if that's not right just overlook it - at the very best you're not next door), for goodness sake, and I'm in Texas. Others of us are scattered across the country, if not the world. Not exactly a hop and a skip apart, so we can't just hop in a car or a bus and go see you. We can only use our words and our prayers to hopefully encourage you and each other. I hope you are encouraged. Blessings and peace to all. ~Oneta

[rodless]

Hey everyone... lots to read lately. I'm over my cold finally and am enjoying the warm weather. Trees and flowers are popping out all over. The first part of spring was tough but I think that's going to be true each time the season changes. Each has its own set of memories. It'll be 10 months on Monday.

I had a long weekend with my kids and am so excited that my son (Presbyterian pastor)is moving back to Iowa from Florida. He will be about 45 miles from his sister and 160 from me.

I have taken a low dose anti-anxiety pill for over a year. Started when Rod was so sick. I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. Not any different that blood pressure medicine as far as I'm concerned. I hope to get off of sometime in the next year although I understand the withdrawal of this one is not pleasant.

Are any of you familiar with Groben's song Where You Are? I love the lyrics.. so comforting to know that Rod is only one breath or heatbeat away. It's just a matter of time and I'll be there too. Mary Jo

[lindat]

Hi Mary Jo, Glad you are feeling better. I just started reading but wanted to say that I love that Josh Groban song - also One Sweet Day by Boyz II Men is also a good one. Hope you are having a good day..... Linda

[misshimstill]

Anna, I ordered THREE books on dreams, one of them laberge's, one a christian, one carl jung's. Got all three of them for $24 on Amazon. I'll let you know what I think. ~Oneta