Loss of a Teenager

[kirksdad]

I want to thank everyone for their support during this weekend. It was a hard anniversary to come to terms with, if that is ever possible. We spent our time in a place that Kirk loved, a place where we had so many wonderful and priceless memories of such happy times. A special place we like to call Heaven on Earth, Lake Wilson, KS. We spent the days out there on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, came in during the night and went out as early as we could in the morning. It was so beautiful this weekend.

Tonight we even got a good rain storm, it dropped 3 inches of rain and believe me it was badly needed. We have a dock on the lake and it is just so peaceful. We visited a cove we have christened Kirk's Cove because about 12 years ago he and a friend of his carved their names in the sandstone formations there and it is still there. We go out every chance we get to make sure it is ok. It was just so peaceful. We took our nephew tubing this afternoon, he resembles Kirk and it is so hard each time we see him, but it is good that there are those that can remind us physically of our lost children.

The one thing that always bothers us though is that family doesn't seem to remember, or if they do, they don't say anything to us. We got a card from a friend here in town and our friends that we hang with talked with us about it, but other than that you are the only ones that say anything. It hurts in a smaller way, but I guess life does go on and things like this are meant to be just thought about.

Anyway, we had a good time, cried only one time when we were at Kirk's Cove and drank a beer for him. It is so wearing when these anniversaries and special dates come. We get through them, but we still miss our kids so much.

[julsmom]

kirksdad - you are an inspiration to all of us who post on this board. May you and your family continue to find peace. Lynda

[Artina]

Jim,

I am glad that you were able to spend some time with some great memories of Kirk. I echo what Lynda said.

Peace to you, Tina

[marksmom]

Hi to all,

Kirksdad, I am happy to hear that your weekend for the most part went well, I can only hope one day I will stop seeing the events of our sons death and will be able to focus on the happier moments. It does sound to me like you have found the perfect spot to go to in order to celebrate (?) your sons life and passing, I can tell that you and your family were very close and love your son alot. I sincerely hope that you and your family continue to move forward in this process. Bye Roxy (marksmom)

[marksmom]

Hi All,

Sarasmom, when i read your post tonight I thought you hit my feelings exactly on the nail. I keep thinking if I could only hold Mark for a minute it would feel like a million bucks, I miss him so badly that I am physically sick.

THis past weekend we went to the cemetary and I layed beside him on the ground and I kept hoping I would feel something even a little closer to him, but I didn't. As a matter of fact to tell you the truth I don't feel close to him there I just feel angry, I feel more like talking with him at home or outside that is where he always was, NOT BURIED IN THE GROUND! IT just feels so wrong, like this should not be happening.

Sometimes I think maybe I am starting to lose it, some say time will help however I seem to be getting worse. I ache for him all the time, he is never far from my thoughts.

So I really understand when you say you ache to hold Sara, as I to feel very strongly about just having that physical touch just once again................take care and know your not alone in your thoughts, bye roxy.

[kirksdad]

Thanks Roxy, it took us a while to get to this point and still have lightyears to go, but at least we have a place here that is safe and peaceful that holds nothing but good memories and good times. When we are there the world and our lives are at rest and Kirk's spirit is all around us.

[titoyginasmom]

I decided to share a bit this morning. See I am a poet. For the longest all my poems have been angry, or just plain mean. Yesterday I was able to write without anger...just sadness.

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

Time

After many months of pain

Many hours of loneliness

Many times of asking why

I decided there is no answer

No amount of time

No magic cure

Just more time

I used to joke about old age

Talk of losing things right in front of me

Believing the lie that only the old lose time

Yet these months I lose my shoes, keys,

Glasses, yes even time

Yet I don't feel old, just lost

I can still hear their voices

Still see their smiles

Hear them talking to each other

See the worry in his eyes

Life yet to come

Swiftly snatched away

Cruelly snuffed like a candle

No light there to see

Can I be that trusting soul

Can I trust all will be well again

Can I hold onto my faith

While I live in this hell

My mind shows me the changes

Small to be sure

Things moving forward from that day

Learning to live again

Trying to trust again

Guess I just need more time

09 August 2005

KEJohnson

Copyright © 2005

[marksmom]

Hi to All,

Kathy I just wanted to let you know that is such a good poem, and unfortunately so many of the feelings you describe match my own exactly. You should read the poem outload to Tito and Gina as it is such a good description of how you feel. I am sure they already know but it might help you to read it to them.

I sincerely hope at some point through this ordeal that all of us find some comfort and peace as I would hate to think I am going to feel this much anger and frustration not to mention despair the rest of my life.

Take care, Marksmom

[marksmom]

hello to all,

Well I made it through today, even though i was sure I could not do it. On August 5th our nephew past away at the age of 14months. I did not know him well as we live fairly far apart but I have kept up with his progress over the past 8 months that he has been ill. At one point we felt like at least something went right as just shortly after our Mark passed away our Nephew seemed to go into remission and we thought he was going to be okay. However that was not meant to be. When my sister in law called to tell me her grandson passed away and gave me the date and time of the funeral it hit me that I HAD TO ATTEND THE FUNERAL!! I know that sounds crazy but it never dawned on me that I would have to go to another funeral so soon after burying our son....

I even suggested to my sister in law that we may not be able to make it as we were struggling alot lately, she said well you know they need your support. I felt guilty for even thinking I did not want to go, so immediately said yes we would be there. In my heart I really felt there were so many others who would be better support to the parents than our family. But whatever.

I did tell both our sons they did not have to go as the both of them had said "mom I don't think I can go". However in the end we all went, the drive to the funeral took a couple of hours, which I thought would give me time to prepare myself. I felt like by the time we reached the church I had my emotions in check!

Boy was I wrong, all the feelings I had the day I buried Mark came flooding back except of course I was not still in shock. I noticed absoulutely everything, whereas I missed so much of what was going on at our sons funeral as i was trying to keep from passing out. I was so scared of passing out or falling down my legs felt week and my heart was pounding like a hammer. Our youngest son had to leave the church he said he was going to faint, it was hot in the church but i believe he to was having a bad moment.

I will say I did make it, and a few of our family members did think that maybe today would be tough on us but other than that many I am sure never thought anything of it. Has this happened to anyone else? Of course this funeral was extremely sad to me as this was our nephew and he was so young, his mother and father our newly married and this was their first child. I was able to give them a hug and i let them know we are here if we can be of help, but I was really overwhelmed.

I am even embarrassed to say that I kept comparing losses, does that make any sense to anyone else or am I really starting to go crazy??

Can you tell me your experiences so far.

THanks marksmom

[marksmom]

Hi all, I guess you can tell I am having another sleepless night.

I could use I some of your input if you have some.

As you know our son passed away on March 13th it was a horrible accident and we had no time to say goodbye. It was one minute I had my son and the next without warning he was gone. There are so many things going on in my family right now, NONE of which has been good since my sons passing. IT is like our whole family has been broken, literally.

My dilema is that Mark's birthday is on the 16th of August he would be celebrating his 17th birthday. Originally when he died I had said I would have a huge party and we would spend the day remembering Mark, (but I said that in my shock days as I call them). Now though I feel like I cannot do that, at least not this year things are just way to bad. We are still dealing with the police, prosecuter, investigations, charges etc. Which I may add are tearing us apart piece by piece. I have also become angry at some of my sons friends that were there the night he died, as they have been caught lying and they did some very dumb things that night (long story). I don't believe I can spend the day with them when I am feeling this way.

Yet this is my sons birthday it has always been a day for celebrating and I don't want to ever stop. No matter what has happened that day is still important to me. If what I hear is true and your children do come home for special occassions and are actually very close to you, then I think what will Mark think of his mom if I don't do something really big for his Birthday??

Since this month started I have been upset, I can't seem to stop crying or stop my mind from jumping all over the place. I am in worse shape now than when my son passed. I miss him so much now my body aches for him. I look at his picture and I cannot believe this has happened, nor do I have any idea how i am supposed to continue with my life...........

My idea was to run away by myself for a week around his birthday (our aniversary is two days after his birhday also), I keep thinking I just cannot take this as on the 13th my son will have been gone exactly 5 months. YUP that long since we talked, hugged, kissed and I can't take it.

I have read what some of you have done for your childrens birhdays but I am open to any suggestions I only have six days left. Your support and input is greatly appreciated, bye Roxy.

[ashleysmom]

Roxy,

My heart goes out to you. I remember going through the fourth, fifth and sixth months after my daughter Ashley died. It seemed so much worse and I really didn't think I would make it through,(I really didn't think I wanted to make it through). The ache in my soul was unbearable. The ache doesn't go away, but we learn to live with it.All I can say is you do what you feel you can do for your son's birthday. On Ashley's birthday, in April, we took much needed family time. We made her grave beautiful, then we went to lunch and shared stories of Ashley with eachother. That was all we could do at the time, but it was huge because we hadn't been able to talk about her with any kind of joy before that. I was dealing with Christmas at my five month mark and I honestly don't remember much about it other than it was terrible. Go really easy on yourself. At Ashley's one year, on the Fourth of July, I had planned a big party to celebrate her life. I could never get really organized, but the party turned out okay. I still find it difficult to get organized, still very scattered. May you find peace in whatever you decide to do, Dottie

[sarasmom]

I'm not sure what we will do on Sara's birthday. Sometimes her birthday falls on Thanksgiving day. November 25th she would be 17. I'm thinking of maybe getting a cake, putting on 17 candles hmmm I just don't know right now. I think do what ever you would think Mark would like.

Always

Jo

[titoyginasmom]

Roxy, I am not sure any of us have any better suggestions than you have already heard. I do have one idea though. Since Mark's birthday will fall on a Tuesday this year..how about a small get together with the friends you CAN handle on say Saturday night or Sunday afternoon? Then on his birthday (the 16th) have a quiet family time. This way each member of the family can choose how much (or little) they wish to be a part of that day. I know that sounds harsh but 10 1/2 months later my husband still does little more than help me scan photos, and mow the site. He simply isn't ready yet. So I am giving him time. Yes, we did sing to Tito, silly string the site, and put out balloons... but Gina's birthday (January 11th) we did little more than take out balloons and cry until we were exhausted. A large part of me understands and knows she will/has forgiven me for not making her 18th birthday more special. We were just still to raw. This is one reason why I am doing something for their Angel Day. I hope some of this helps you make a choice...just remember NO ONE can tell you if it is "right" or "wrong" to celebrate anything for or with your child. Mark was YOUR son....no one else's.

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[titoyginasmom]

I have a question for those of you who have made memorial websites. How do you get past the grief to make sense when you write?? I have to do one for Tito and one for Gina. I have been working for days on Tito's but it is killing me! Gina's will be so very much harder. See I got full total custody of Gina only a year before she died. Her father is in Cuba, and I have no input from him on this. I want to tell her entire story, but am too afraid there will be too much for the site. I NEED to do this for her, yet have no idea why this one is harder? Comments or suggestions from anyone?

Also where can I get MP3 music downloads?

Kathie.....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[Artina]

Marksmom,

I totally understand everything you have touched on. One of my son's friends past away a year and a half after my son. We went to that funeral, because he was very special to us. It was so difficult. I wouldn't have missed it for the world, but it was SO difficult. There were a few people there that were friends with my son and the boy that past away- they acted like it was just another day. My mind ran away with me. Like you said, everything that was so clouded by shock at our son's funeral, was so clear that day. Funeral's are hard and I have not attended a funeral since. We have lost a couple of good friends since my son died, but have opted to say a prayer for their families instead of attending their funeral. This is all we are able to do. If it offends someone, than they really aren't to worried about the grief that our family deals with everyday. The reality is, we need our own support in order to make it through each day and THAT'S OKAY.

As far as the "first" birthday without them, or the second and third, I know exactly where you are coming from. I would love to be strong enough to through a big bash, but I'm broken and can barely get through the week of his birthday. Even after three years, we just do a small celebration. We (husband, son, and I) have Chris's favorite meal and buy his favorite cake. I have always said that I reserve the right to do "something special" for Chris's birthday at a later date- not on his birthday (just too many emotions that drain me). Usually, "that something special" includes a donation to a non-profit agency or a donation to a needy family, which is given in memory of my son. It feels good to do that... it's very healing.

Take it easy on yourself... the universe understands your struggle and the pain that you are feeling right now.

Peace to you, Tina

[griffinsmom]

Regarding memorial websites- Griffins is nice- memory-of.com, there is a beyond indigo site- which is limited, there is xanga.com, not memorial, but anything you waqnt- I like memory-of. I used Griffins already downloaded music from bearshare.com. Good luck- also, sometimes the photo files are too large, so I downloaded a jpeg compressor to make the file size small enough for the site.

https://griffin-schwartz.memory-of.com/about.aspx

I was told last night that a group of Griffins friends are designing a tatoo for all of them to get. I like that, and will get one, too- only it may be my own design....never know what they have up their sleeves....

[cindy121]

Kathy,

When I did my son's memorial page, my younger sister did most of the set up, I added pictures with her help also. his site is

http://groups.msn.com/donnydix

It is a free site

I used it mostly in the beginning to journal in.

It was a difficult task. I still visit the site daily.

Cindy D ..... Mom to Donny ( 9/17/1983 - 1/3/2001 )

[sarasmom]

The one I got for Sara was very easy. They did most of the work with background and stuff. I'm not very pc wise. I still have to put some pictures in there but a friend is going to help me with that.

http://sara-fitzpatrick.memory-of.com/about.aspx

[kirksdad]

I did Kirk's here at the site, it is simple and has been a real source of comfort.

There are a lot of sites a good web search will find them using memorial sites.

Kirk's is http://www.beyondindigo.com/memorials/memorials.php/dID/229

[joshsmom]

I've been reading everyone's posts about their memorial sites and hope that someday I can do something like this for Josh! I don't have a scanner and so I can't download any pictures of him! It is really nice to be able to go to the different sites and see the pictures and read about each person and really feel that I know them better!

The reason I am writing is this.....Josh's 18th birthday is on August 30th and we have put off purchasing a monument for the cemetary. We have his ashes in a small plot and now would like to replace the plain marker with something more personal and special. My problem is that we don't have alot to spend and I am having a very difficult time trying to put into words, everything I feel I want to say on the stone. Does anyone know of a site or anything that I can go to for examples of wording for this type of thing? Maybe then I can takes bits and pieces and finally be able to come up with what I am looking for!

This is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do! I feel like I will let Josh down if I just put something like, "Forever Missed" or "Always in our hearts"! I just don't feel like anything is good enough, if you know what I mean???

Thanks for anyone's input or help!

Josh's Mom!

P.S.

Has anyone here added a picture on their child's stone? I don't know much about this, but wonder about it. This is so strange to be writing about this, I feel like I'm not really even talking about my own son. It's like I've gone out of myself and am looking into this stuff from another person's perspective! maybe that's the only way I can deal with it? God this is so hard!

[Artina]

Joshsmom,

I wish I could be of some help, but we have our son's ashes in our home. We created a memorial wall for him where we had pictures put on a plaque with a poem and a dedication to his life. Whatever you do has to feel right to you and only you.

Also, I just wanted to make a quick note about your pictures that need to be scanned (and you said you didn't have scanner) you can take your pictures to a photo lab and have them scan your pictures and place them on a CD and then you can put your CD in your computer and download them to your computer- to use at a later date. I just wanted to let you know that- in case you didn't.

I pray that words come to you that feel exactly the way that your family feels about your son, Josh. I know that this is very difficult...

Peace to you, Tina

[marksmom]

Hello to All,

I just wanted to really thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. I always feel more comfortable when I hear all of you giving me input as I know you are advising me because you are living the same hell. (if you know what I mean)

Dottie,Jo,Kathie, Tina you have all given me some things to think on. I guess the truth is I will only be able to do what I can. I kept thinking this weekend how at the time Mark passed away I remember me saying I will throw him the birthday party he had been planning, we will do it just the way he had planned. NOW though I know I couldn't survive it, at least not this year.

I only hope that Mark will understand why I couldn't do it, as I don't want him to think that his birthday is not important enough to me as it really is. As you all know he is all I can even think about these days. I feel guilty sometimes as my thoughts are more with him than anyone else.

I am not sure exactly why but this past week has been the worst as far as the pain of losing him and his birthday isn't until this week. Maybe it was the other funeral for our nephew I don't know. I noticed everything at the funeral and i kept flashing back and forth between this one and Marks.

All of this is just so hard, I bought myself a cd with some of the songs they put to Marks video, and although I wanted to listen to the songs I cried all the way through it so did my husband. Its like I want to keep listening to it as it describes my thoughts and it makes me think of him, but it kills me.

If you get a chance listen to the songs that Celine Dion sings one is "I am Alive" the other is "Goodbye" which my oldest son said she wrote when her mother passed away. Tell me your thoughts if you hear them. TO me it was wrote for parents like us. Sad but so true.

I have been going to some of the memorial sites and they are great it is a way for us to meet the children all of us has lost. I hope I can make one for Mark or maybe get my oldest boy to help me he is the computer tech in our house. I am not really great with the computer, we barely get along. It is probably true of all of us we want everyone to know our kids, what they were like, how they looked and all there is to know about them. Afterall they are the reason we are all here, and I am sure none of us want people to forget our children. I really like the memorial sites, it gives us a chance to tell people about our children. ITs sad but because they are not around us now it is hard to introduce them to people we meet, this is about the only way I can see me being able to ask someone to meet my son. ( if that makes any sense)

Joshsmom, we have been looking all over for monuments and although we have not finalized anything yet we have looked into having his picture on the monument. Apparently you can do it a couple of different ways in order to keep the picture in good shape one is to have a cover that slides back and forth over the picture, the idea is when you visit you can move it aside and see there picture. You can also have either black and white or a color picture painted on there (special technique) and it will not fade. The other thing we heard is you can put a regular picture behind a special glass and face it away from the sun and it will last a long time also. I also just saw one that was engraved in the stone, it looked good to. We have checked out alot and for cost I was advised to buy in the winter as where we live they do not sell much around Dec and Jan so they are usually on sale and no tax is charged. We have also heard of people who live in the country finding a nice rock and having a plaque/picture attached to the rock?? I have only see one so far but it is supposed to be very inexpensive and you can write more than you can on a regular monument. I also went to many monument sites and if I see something different or a saying I like I have printed them off. We have also seen a color painting of something the person liked in the corner, for us we were thinking of having his quad painted on the side in the original colors??

I sound like I am babling but so far that is what we have come across.

I never would have thought this would happen to us but we seem to be stopping at alot of cemetaries lately as we keep hoping we are going to see something that is really special as we are looking to put something up for Mark that is special, unique like he was.

Talk to you again soon, strength to all. Marksmom.

[sarasmom]

I am aproaching the 3 month mark of Sara's death. August 30th will be 3 months. It seems to be getting worse for me.

Marksmom, We have already ordered Sara's headstone and it will have her picture on it. Plus the poem Little we Knew which we had on her funeral cards. I love that poem so much.

I went to see the car that Sara was killed in last week. My husband didn't want me to go, he wanted to save me more heartache if that is even possible. I had to go for some reason and see where my baby died. I didn't even cry while looking at it. I just felt so much anger at the boy who did this to Sara and our family.

I bought a cd by Kathy Zavada that has a song on it called my Angle and I'm right here. I love it. I also litsten to Josh Grobin his songs always comfort me. When Sara died the song by George Stright You'll be There was on all the time. It was a huge comfort during that time.

It seems now I'm collecting Angles. I didn't have any before Sara died and now I have a few and they bring me comfort because I believe that Sara is an Angle now and I know in Heaven whenever a child comes through Heavens gates she is the first one in line to greet them. She was like that in School whenever there was a new kid Sara was the first one to talk to them and make them feel welcome.

Now I'm crying so I'll close this for now.

Love

Jo

[hannahrosesmom]

I have just finished the final layout for Hannah’s headstone. It was NOT an easy task; many times I sat staring at the design in total disbelief that I was doing such a thing. One thing I was told that I took to heart was to take my time, even the funeral director suggested at least a year. I wasn’t able to wait that long because I really hate going to the cemetery and there’s nothing to indicate she’s there-too heartbreaking. I do feel that she helped me design it because it seemed once the ideas started it was rather cut and dried. I did a search on the web and am including some helpful links. Mostly I looked at the sites for shape ideas but have to admit I was knew what I wanted on there. I can tell you that the headstone designers can put pretty much anything you want on there. Hannah’s has a fairy that her girlfriend drew and the artist at the place that’s making the headstone duplicated the drawing perfectly and designed the dress to match almost exactly the princess dress I made for Hannah for Renaissance Festival that she is also buried in. I was so in awe of how perfectly exact the artist created it. The back has a poem my sister wrote. I sent a cd with many pictures for reference and very specific instructions of what I wanted, everything on there has a meaning. If anyone would like to see it they can email me at kimz@rconnect.com as I have the final front and back layouts on my computer. Anyway, here are some of the better links I found:

http://www.everlifememorials.com - has a FANTASTIC info center including symbolism and epitaphs, definitely a must see site for information.

http://www.jonesmemorials.com

http://www.riggmooney.com/default.htm

http://www.westmemorials.com/monuments/

http://thompsonmonuments.com/

I didn’t purchase Hannah’s from any of these places, I used them strictly for reference. Hers will have a ceramic color photo of her on the front that is guarenteed to last a minimum of 30 years. I’m hoping by then I’ll be with her. I’m also hoping to have hers in place in the next couple weeks, it is being carved now. What is making me apprehensive is my reaction when I see it for the first time when it IS in place.

Today is 10 months since she’s been gone and I’m at the point where I’m having moments of acceptance, and I mean moments. Believe me when they come I still have that voice in my head screaming “no no no she can’t be gone I want her to come home NOW!!!” I got the new newsletter from my Compassionate Friends group which has her one year anniversary angel date and I gotta tell you, seeing it in print was highly disturbing and created all kinds of emotional distress. I didn’t know anybody could miss someone this bad, I HATE this!!!!!!!!

I didn't check for typo's or grammatical's, hope this made sense cuz not much does to me anymore.

peace to you all

Hannah Rose's Mom - aka Kim

[marksmom]

Hello to All,

Kim thanks for all the sites, we have been searching and looking trying to get ideas as we want to get the headstone for Mark done as soon as we can as I to do not like going to the cemetary without him having a proper monument. Right now the funeral home just puts those round sticks there and it just seems so cold. I have not had a chance yet tonight but I am going to try and check out some of the sites you suggested to see if we can find something that seems to fit.

Talk about losing it the other night when I was posting about the information I have come across I absolutely could not think of how they did the color pictures of the person so I use the words special ink (duh) and when I read your post and you said ceramic I was like bingo that was it, I don't know sometimes what is happening to me its like i am losing it totally.

Kim, I have cried most of today of course tomorrow is Marks birthday so I listened to some of the songs that are special to me now and I was thinking this hurts way more than anyone can imagine. The pain is indescribeable I really don't know how to explain to someone how I feel, when I read your post I could really identify with your thought about the pain. I guess that is why we can understand each others pain likely better than anyone, its like you have to experience this to really know YET none of us ever really did want to know. I hope you get what I mean, it seems lately nothing I say makes sense. I just wanted you to know that although none of us feel exactly the same I can identify with the pain you describe. Take care marksmom (Roxy).

I will email you as I would really like to see the monument you have gotten for Hannah, I am sure it is great!

[marksmom]

Question/Idea to all....

The other night when i was posting i mentioned a few songs that I listen to that are very special to me as they say things I feel, not to mention when they made the video about our son these songs were playing to his video and some how they have just stuck in my mind. When either my husband or myself here the songs I cry but I also feel comforted if that makes any sense.

THen tonight when I was reading the post from Jo (Hannasmom)she mentioned some music that is special to her. I was wondering how many of us have picked up some special songs or poems since losing our children and I know that when I read about the ones Jo posted I wrote them down and asked my son to add them to my "special cd". I was just thinking if some of us felt comfortable in sharing our special songs we would likely pick up some new songs that have the meaning we are looking for?

I don't know maybe it is a wierd idea but I just thought maybe some of you are like me and some songs have taken on new meaning to me. I would appreciate it if any of you have special songs that you have found have brought comfort to you if you could share them it would be great. I have been asking my son to burn me a cd with all the songs that are special to me so that when I am in that mood I can have all those songs on one cd.

Just a thought. I actually went to the music store this past weekend and I was looking for a cd with love songs on it but not the type you play for romance the ones that are about special love feelings, and family and all that type and of course there is no such CD. I was thinking it would be great to have all those songs together on one cd.

I have to tell you all that when I finished writing this post it brought a quick smile to my face as I was thinking if my son Mark could read this he would have said his mom is definately losing it!!! Before Marks death I very seldom listened to music and if I did like a song I would never have remembered the name or the words, I guess I am changeing...........bye Roxy.

[griffinsmom]

Happy Birthday, Mark. Peace to you and your family~

[joshsmom]

Thankyou very much Kim, for the excellent references to the sites! I have been looking at them for the last two days, almost all the time, trying to find just the right words and things! So far it has given me a few different things that have "clicked" and I am just having a hard time deciding on something. I really appreciate it!

Roxy, I am thinking of you today and your family while you remember Mark today on his birthday! I will be doing the same in a few more days for Josh's birthday, on August 30th! Getting his stone in place for that day is something I am hoping happens! If I can ever get my head together and just figure out what I want, which of course never seems good enough or just the right wording! I have gotten alot of good ideas from the sites that Kim suggested, so i hipe that you find ideas too when you look into the sites also! I just can't beleive that I am actually having to do this for Josh! It seems so strange if I really let myself thnk about what I'm actually designing!

I understand completely what you say about songs and music since your son died! I have always been into listening to songs, so when this all happened I had certain ones, right away, that got to me and the words would really hurt! But these songs are the ones that I listen to! If that makes sense!

A few weeks ago, while away for a weekend up north, my husband and I were taking a drive and one by one, right in a row, 5 songs that I have thought of when I hear them, they are MY songs for Josh, all came on the radio! One by one they played and I just got goosebumps! When the 3rd, 4th and then the 5th song, started to play, I burst out crying! My husband didn't understand what I was crying about and then I told him! Five songs in a row!!! I took that as a major sign that Josh was there with us!!!

I like these songs alot.....and I have also thought of having my older son burn me a CD with them on it. I think that is a great idea!

I can't think right now to actually put down the songs and who sings them, my mind is so clouded lately! I have a hard time remembering things. But if you want to know them, I can try and write them down as I hear them and post at a later time!

Again, I am sending hugs to you today, on Mark's Special Birthday!

Take Care,

Josh's Mom (Sue)

[kirksdad]

The song that makes me think so hard about Kirk's death is "I hope you dance" by Leanne Womack. We listened to it over and over for 6 hours the night after Kirk's death because it was a comfort to my daughter. We fell asleep out on in our living room while we had it on repeat. I get teary eyed everytime I hear it.

[sarasmom]

Happy Birthday to Mark. To Marks family I pray that God gives you strength to get through this day without him. I believe though that our children are with us even though we can't see them.

[hannahrosesmom]

I just want to touch base on another subject I see mentioned in this site a lot, which is the having some sort of celebration or party for our child’s birthday. Last year Hannah’s 17th birthday, December 31, came just 2 short months after she died; my birthday is December 26, our joke was who had the worse birthdate. I was still completely in shock and still so numb from her death that all I did was lay on the couch with a blanket over my head. I just could NOT deal with the holidays and birthdays all in a row like that much less any type of holiday or birthday “celebration/party”. Actually I would prefer we just skip October (her angel date is October 15) thru December and go right for January. Believe it or not I’m getting to my point. I’ve been obsessed with books on the afterlife written by well known psychics such as John Edward, Sylvia Browne, and James Van Praagh. I was reading Life on the Other Side by Sylvia Browne the other night and came across these sentences that to me make perfect sense not when not much in this life does :

"I also ask you to please spare yourself some unnecessary pressure while you’re in the throes of grief and shock after a loved one has died, and I say this with absolute respect for every ritual practiced in every corner of the world to honor the dead: whatever it is you do, however it is you grieve and say good-bye, yourmost important task is to comfort, respect, and support the bereaved who are left behind.The spirit of the deceased is already somewhere else and unconcernedabout the size of their headstone, the view from their grave, or what anyone wore to the funeral, I promise you……….

The deceased have no further use for their bodies or any of the material things they enjoyed on earth. What they care about, from their vantage point of perfect understanding on The Other Side, is the well-being of those they loved here and those who loved them.”

*********************

I interpret this to mean that our earthly rituals are meaningless in the afterlife and that our loved ones continue to love us no matter what we do or don’t do. I can’t imagine that Hannah would want me to put myself through anymore pain than I’m already in to have a birthday party for her. I can hear her say “why are you having a party for me when I’m not there? Are you crazy? Why would you do that to yourself?” Yes Hannah I am crazy, I’m crazy with grief over the loss of you and the pain and loneliness I’m consumed with. I’m not saying that it’s wrong to be have the celebrations if you are capable of handling it, we all handle our grief differently. I personally am not and can’t handle any more stress than I’m already drowning in. This year I think I’ll go to the cemetery and spend some time in quiet conversation with her. Seems to me that all our kids ever wanted was our undivided attention and time alone with them. I guess my point is, be gentle to yourselves, protect your heart, you can only do what you can do. Grief is hard enough without putting additional stressors on ourselves. Try to live your life in a way that honors your child, more than anything I want Hannah to be proud of me. Don’t get me wrong, if you are able to do those things, God bless you. I just want those out there that are struggling with these events (don’t want to use celebrate) to know that it’s ok if you are unable to. Our child loves us unconditionally as we love them also. In the many stories that John Edward relates in his books, he tells of the many “energies” as he calls them , that come through to tell their loved ones that they don’t like seeing us unhappy. I’m sure Hannah doesn’t like seeing me unhappy, she, of all the people I know, loved to laugh the most. I try very hard to enjoy some things, like watching her brother play in his band, playing with her dogs or tending her memorial gardens, I enjoy those for her. But there are days when no matter how hard I try, the grief is just overwhelming and it overtakes me. I’m know she understands my pain enough to know I have go through it in order to heal yet also understands my struggle/effort to try and enjoy the small things in life because of my love for her. Again, I hope some of this makes sense to some of you. These are only my thoughts and opinions as I try to find my new “normal.” I’m allowing myself time and lots of it to find out what that is. Hannah would’ve been starting her senior year in a few weeks. I see all the back to school commercials and they tear my heart out. I think about not being able to see her graduate next spring and wonder whether or not I’ll be able to watch the ceremony. I don’t know if I can handle watching the driver of the car graduate and not Hannah. I guess for now I’ll just concentrate on her upcoming angel date and try to survive that. One day at a time as best as I can.

Peace to you all,

Hannah Rose’s mom aka Kim

Roxy,

May you find the strength to get through this day. Know that Mark is with you always……..

[Artina]

Kim,

I agree with you whole heartedly. Everything you said is exactly how I see my grief and relationship with my son on the other side. I too have read books by John, Sylvia, and James... they are very Universal in their thinking and "all loving".

Peace to you, Tina

[griffinsmom]

Hannah Roses Mom-

I went to Griffins graduation- mostly because his friends - many who had been his friends since preschool...the driver of the car not only graduated that night, but is off to college this weekend pending sentencing....I hate to say it, but it wasn't worth the pain. But Griffins accident was his last semester of High School, and he had so much school spirit- wrestling, basketball....powderpuff- and they dedicated the pre graduation video to him- showing the prom he missed, etc. I don't know...it's your choice, but my experience was actually mixed. You could get a yearbook and have a friend bring it around to get signed- thats nice to have.

Meanwhile- I have been crying non stop for my son. This is so hard, I'm so tired. Compassionate Friends meetings help. I just cant imagine the rest of my life like this- really. Good luck to all!

https://griffin-schwartz.memory-of.com/about.aspx

[joshsmom]

Hannah's Mom,

I also have read almost every book I could find by John Edward, Sylvia Brown and a few others that were very good!

I don't know if I could have gotten this far without them! I in no way was going to be able to handle waking up each day and having to think of Josh as "Gone"! The books gave me the perspective I needed and was looking for as far as being able ot see Josh, still very much alive and around us still! I know his body is gone, but his spirit, which is truly Josh, will always be alive!

I have to beleive this in order to live the rest of my life here! I look at it as having him still, but in a different way!

I too have a hard time with the back to school commercials and things like that. Josh also would have been starting his Senior year this year and I have also thought about his Graduation and if I could handle being there! Alot of his friends would want me to be, but the school has made it pretty clear that they wont be allowing any Memorial type thing for Josh, because his death was "drug related"! Even though it was an accident on his part and the kid who gave him the 2 pills is looking at 1st Degree Reckless Homocide charges, I feel that Josh was killed! But that's a whole nother heartache and subject for me! Alot of Josh's friends have told us that they intend to do something at graduation for Josh anyway, just do it and what can they say then? Which to me is fine, I just don't want him to be forgotten!!!

Josh died on May 31, 2204,he was only 16 years old too Last year we had to deal with all the holidays and things too, we opted to have a small group of our older son's friends here for a Thanksgiving Dinner, rather than visit family as we usually did. Christmas was completely ignored here! No lights outside (Josh alsways decorated with his brother and Dad!), no tree, no presents (Josh made Christmas what it was for us! He was always a little kida again when it came to Christmas).

We just didn't do anything! Our family sent up a few samll gifts for us, but we didn't even open them until sometime in Spring! I just have no feelings for holidays now! It really doens't matter to me anymore! They are just days to me!

[Artina]

Griffinsmom,

My heart hurts for you. It was thoughtful, but OUCH. I can only imagine how painful all of that was... it just wouldn't be enough to be worth it (for me). My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Peace to you, Tina

[Artina]

Joshsmom,

Shame on that school!!! The life of your son had nothing to do with the way that he died. They should memorialize his life. Forget them- you can take out a big artical in your local news paper- around graduation time- and memorialize your son and use it to educate other teens about drug pushers. Ask the paper if they would do it for free and they can look for sponsors to cover the cost. This may be too much for you right now, but some day you could do this. Please know that not all people support the school's view.

Also, I have a hard time with the "back to school" commercials and this time of year in general. It makes since though... we spent countless hours preparing them for the "first" day of school and now...

Peace to you, Tina

[kirksdad]

Joshsmom, I am sorry to hear that your school is so narrow minded. So many schools are the same way. The school was not a source of comfort for us and our daughter after our son's death, they chose to be cold, calulating, and completely void of any compassion. Our story turned out ok, but only because in my grief I wasn't willing to let them treat us, as a family, the way they were willing to. I spent a lot of time and many many heartaches to see that they were informed of how we felt. In the long run it made a difference, but to be honest we are 4 years down the road from what they did and I think what we accomplished is being destroyed again, but people like that will never have a heart.

It is so hard to understand why people act or think the way they do, but I have come to the conclusion that is the way it goes in matters of the life and death of a kid, especially if that kid is seen to have not done things the way they percieve things should have been done. That was the way the looked at the death of our son, as though it was probably in the best interest for them, and mentioning him, or doing anything in his memory might have make it seem that his life had more meaning than they were willing to admit. It isn't an easy process going through this when all the attitudes seem to point to the thought that these kids did nothing to deserve anyone's memorializing them. We actually had a board member tell us that to our faces.

It was a year of hell we went through with the schools, but like I said in the end we forced some issues. Mow I am not sure what is going on, but it seems like they might be trying to change things again, I will wait and see. I just don't know if I have the strength myself, this time, to do anything about it. I understand completely what your feeling and emotions are going through. If they only knew.

[joshsmom]

Thankyou for the kind words, and understanding from both of you!! I just feel like they have chose to treat this whole thing so badly! They wouldn't even allow Josh's friends to put his picture up on their lockers after it happend. it was a memorial picture they had printed up on their own, for the funeral! I couldn't even look at his pictures at that time, and these kids spent their own money and went to a place and had over 300 color pictures printed up with a poem on it. They were there to take at the funeral home and to this day, 15 months later, I still see cars with that picture of Josh in the windows! They were amazing to do this for him!

Anyway, I intend to push the isssue also when the time comes for Graduation next year! I am going to do what I can to make them understand that his friends arn't condoning drug use or "putting him up on a pedistal" which is what the Principal told us was the reason they wouldn't allow the picutes on the lockers!

We too went through hell from the school and Principal after Josh died. It wasn't 2 days after and we got a call from the principal, thank God my husband answered, because what he talked about was way out of line, especially 2 days after! He began telling my husband that he supected something was going on with Josh because his grades were dropping and he was missing more days of school! Well, Josh had a learning disibility and he also had problems already from a snow mobile accident he was in when he was 12! He did miss school, but I called him in! I run an in-home daycare and I am always home! Josh wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary as far as I knew......if he had concerns then why didn't someone pick up the phone and call me? Not 2 days after our son died!!!

What a jerk!!!

Sorry to go on and on, it just really makes me angry how people can so easily judge!!!

I wouldn't put this on anyone but sometimes I wish that they had to deal with what we deal with everyday, just for a few hours and see what their tunnel vision can cause in a parent whose child died!

Josh was only 16 and he made a terrible choice, but alot of kids do and nothing happens to them! Parents probably aren't even aware of the bad choices, and the kids just goes on with his life!

Unfortunatly, I think, Josh didn't get a second chance! This also makes me very sad!

I appreciate your words of comfort and encouragment to do something to change this and I intend to!!! Hopefully by that time, I will be alittle stronger and will be able to talk to them without breaking down!!

Take Care,

Josh's Mom (Sue)

[ribitsmom]

Joshsmom: I am new here and hope I don't step on toes, this is my first day reading...and I started at 06 of 2003. My comment is about the school not allowing the friends to express the grief they felt/feel for Josh. How awful, and how absolutely wrong. These kids need an outlet and this is how they are doing it.

We lost our daughter, Bridgette (who we call Ribit), almost 2 yrs ago. It was Sept. 26, 03, home coming night. She and 3 guys were struck by a train, it devistated the whole community. My daughter was a Senior and was to grad. that year, the boys had all been out of school (they were 19 and 20). This was 3-4 highschools that were effected by this accident and they brought in counseling for all the kids that wanted it, they provided a candle light vigil, they left up poster for months, pictures...everything, because this was helping all the kids at school. I don't care how our children are lost to us, they are still lost. We all feel the emotions and need to express. On senior picture day, the kids (class of over 800) put on shirts to memorialize Bridge, and the kids in front (within the picture) had shirts that spelled out "We Miss You Bridgette, class of 2004" Yes, that upset the Heads of school and they tried to not allow it, but the kids pushed and succeeded. Maybe what I am saying is to tell the kids to stand up for them selves, go to the school councelors (spelling is awful, sorry) and let them know that this helps them to express the loss they experienced.

We all handle our loss in different ways, and losing a friend at the tender teenage years is very devistating also. But,even left on there own, these kids are persistant and will probably do what they want anyway (God Bless them), if told "no" they will be more detirmined.

Anyway, that was my 2 cents.

Denise

[kirksdad]

Dear Parents,

I would like to give everyone an opportunity to have a special place that their child's memorial website could be viewed. I feel that having them in the posts is nice, but hard to find and having to cut and past is not always the best way to get people to view the sites. Therefore I am starting this new strand so that we can keep the sites in one place without clutter. I mention that I want them without clutter so I am going to have to make up some rules for the use of this strand. I will also be monitoring it daily and will have to edit it as I see fit if something other than what I ask for is posted. I do not want this strand to get into a posting strand, just a place where the websites along with some information is posted making it easier to have others view these sites.

The rules will be as follows.

1. Only the child's name, Dates, Parents or immediate family, along with the website will be allowed. I am putting in an example in the next post with Kirk's site listed. This is the only way I will allow them to be place in this strand.

2. I will reserve the right to edit out any information other than what I have asked for. If I feel it is unintentional I will first write to explain why I will need to edit it.

3. There will be no advertisements permitted.

4. Only one site can be posted with each child. If one wants to change it periodically they will need to write me to change it or they can go in and edit it if that is possible, but if more than one site is posted the top site will remain and the other site will be edited.

5. I am sorry to have to do it this way, but I really want to have our kid's sites shown with a minimal amount of information that does not relate to the sites.

The new strand Kid's Memorial Sites is now a new place to put our memorial sites.

Jim, Kirksdad

Kirk Matthew Balthazor

June 11, 1983 - August 5, 2000

Sone of Jim and Cindy, Brother to Teryn

http://www.beyondindigo.com/memorials/memorials.php/dID/229

[mothersangel]

HI i,m just new here,and am not sure how this site works.I am the mother of Dominic our 18 year old son,who commited suicide 2 weeks after his 18th birthday.Dominic was the 2nd of our five children,we live in a small country town with grandparents next door,and our children working in our family buisness,many who know us have said we are very close.Dominic went missing after a phone call from a girlfriend on a thursday night,when he didn,t go to work the next day we were woried as this was so not like him.No one had heard from him and i knew something was desperatly wrong( but never this).On the saturday afternoon my eldest tony then 19 went accross to our big farm shed and found his brother hanging,i can,t even explain his grief .The days following things went from bad to worse.that evening the girlfriends brother arrived drunk to our house filled with friends and relatives,to start a fight,needless to say we were all horrified and it all became a mess,having to call police,they also called them on us,the police were very appoligetic,the story over the next few days got bizzar,but it would take forever.To cut a long story short 11 months later another school friend of Doms took his life,followed by his best mate 13 months later in a motor bike accident,he had suffered with Doms loss,losing his licence,job and almost his mind.The month before he died he had decided that Dom wanted him to get on with his life and pulled himself together .3 months later another family we knew well also commited suicide he was only 16,then 1 month to the day a school friend and footy mate droped dead on the fotty field at 19 , in 18 months we had lost 5 precious young men all in the two little towns next door.During this time a man blew himself up at our local railway station causing kasos & more distress yo our now broken towns.The community got together with police and put lots of things in place for these grieving teenages,so many had been to 2 or 3 funnerals and were,nt even 18 yet.We have survived this awful time that seemed never to end,with lots of help from support groups& family.I and my daughter s have been every active in groups now helping others,My daughter at 17 spoke at a huge charity event on behalf of one of Here for life,.i have just touched on our sad time as i,m sure everyone here understands.thamks for listening Dom,s Mum.....

[kirksdad]

Dom's Mom, I am so sorry for your loss. YOu have been through so much. No one is even remotely prepared for what you have gone through, what any of us go through. We have thoughts of growing old with our kids, but somehow that doesn't happen and we are left a life time of dashed hopes and dreams. I wish I had the words that would help your grief, but I am sure you have come to realize there are none. I do know in time we are able to put some of our life back together, for each of us that accomplisment is different. Your community has a lot of healing to do. This is a good place to talk and know that others will listen. Kirksdad

[Artina]

Mother'sangel,

I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like your community has also been through a lot. I pray that everybody is able to be a resource to each other. Loss is so difficult, but the loss of a child is- at times- unbearable.

Peace to you, Tina

[mothersangel]

Thanks Artina & kirksdad for your messages. I wish i had seen this site a few years ago,when our grief was new,but even now to see other parents all with their own grief journeys and take comfort.Regardless of how or why we lost our precious children ,the pain is the same.I relate my grief journey ,as a long winding road,at the start you can,t see past the tight bends and thick bush, and as you put one foot infront of the other,and take one step at a time,the bush gets less thick,and the road streches out so that you can see a short way infront, and if we keep going ,sometimes needing to sit and catch our breath along the way, or have a friend join us for a while,i know if we keep on going we will see the road stretch out in front to a beautiful garden & sunshine where we will find peace & acceptence. my love to all out there on your grief journey, i hope your roads become easier .Dominics Mum....

[tinasdad]

Mothersangel, I am so deeply sorry for this unbearable suffering you have endured. While you went through this a few years ago, the pain is still with you, and my heart is touched with it all. I can't imagine the shock this has been for all of you. My hope is that you feel comfortable here, and continue to share your grief with us while you heal. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[kirksdad]

Mother's Angel, I have found that time does help. The pain lessens, the wounds somewhat heal, but the loss is still there, always. I wish none of us had ever had to go through this, it is such a horrible thing to have happen, the death of a child. Our son Kirk was killed in a car wreck 5 years ago, but that night will always be so fresh in my mind. I am better, I am trying to do as much as I can, my life will be good again and we are trying like hell to get there, but Kirk is my baby always, my son forever.

[mothersangel]

tHANKS kirksdad & tinasdad thats what makes this site so good,as whatever you say you know that everyone understands.I became a parent supporter for famalies ,who had a recent suicide,it was just being there for them in those first few days.Knowing i had been through the same thing seemed to give them comfort.6 weeks after dom died,i went in search for a suicide support group in Melb Vic Australia...as i needed to talk and see others,who were 1 or 2 years down the road,to give me some sort of light at the end of this black tunnel i was in,it was one of the first things that helped ,as i saw these people laugh and that they had got on with their lives (in a fashion) it gave me hope to continue even though i thought i would never laugh again ,but you do and you move on to a better place in life.Always with you children in our hearts..DOMS MUM

[kylesmom]

Hello everyone,

It's been awhile since I posted here. Life got busy and I didn't have time to look, then I see the posts and have to reply.

My 19 year old son Kyle died in a car crash about 16 months ago. The "OK" moments are increasing. There aren't any really good moments, because it is always there. But for those of you new in the grief journey, I have gotten over that kicked in the stomach feeling and hopefully you will too.

MarksMom -- so many songs have touched me since losing Kyle. "Whole New World," (the Aladdin theme) -- I think of Kyle telling me this is what he's experiencing. Alan Parsons Project's "Friend of Mine," and "Don't Wanna Live My Life (In the Real World)". Of course, Rod Stewart's "Forever Young." That one destroys me when I hear it.

Kim (HannahRosesMom), it's so good to hear you sounding "almost" OK. (Don't let anyone tell you how well you're doing, right?) I'd love if you'd share your ADCs from Hannah. I know I've had them from Kyle. My husband is worried that I'm nuts ... and he's probably right. But here we are. I haven't read any John Edwards books (but intend to soon). I found a good one by Sandy Goodman called "Love Never Dies." It's worth a look. For some reason I think of Hannah quite often, I don't know why. One of those strange things you can't understand.

Kirksdad, you're our rock as always, thanks for all you do.

[marksmom]

Hello from Roxy,

THank you for the birthday wishes for Mark, although the day was one filled with saddness I did want to acknowledge his birthday as for the past 16years that day has always been filled with joy and laughter. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that day would make me cry but as you all know this birthday for my son was very different than any we had ever celebrated before....this time I am not sure where my son is and it hurts so bad I could just die!! I am sorry to say that but so far I cannot say without a doubt I know where he is?? Am I crazy? Has anyone else experienced this scenario?? I am trying to positive and I try to tell my youngest son that Mark is with us but just in a different way, BUT WHY CAN'T I BELIEVE THAT WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME!!

I didn't sleep much the night before his birthday, but I told myself to think of all the good birthdays we had and that I need to make sure to let Mark know that no matter what the birth of him will always be a celebration!! My husband and I and our two sons picked up Marks girlfriend and we went to the cemetary. I had wanted to attach notes to the ballons and then let them go but my husband wanted us to leave some with Mark so we agreed to let off one each (we brought seventeen). My note idea did not work either as every time we went to write we would break down. But as we left the house that morning I through a black marker in my purse (now I know why) we ended up just writing our messages directly on the balloons and then we let them go one by one. I don't know why but it felt really good, I did not see what each of us wrote but I could tell everyone liked it. Mark always had a good sense of humour and always just went with the flow, so I thought he would have liked what happened. We were also surprised that when we arrived at the cemetary other people had already come for his birthday, that made me feel good as knowone lives right around the cemetary and it is out in the country so for them to come before we got there at 1 was special to me. We cried alot but I felt some release. The rest of the day we let the kids go to the mall in the city while I went to the medium for a reading. The reading went well but I still had some nagging questions as to wether it was really Mark. Later after we went for supper we went to the little spiritual church where I met earlier with the medium. Likely everyone went because they knew I wanted to but while we were there things changed. As the reverend was speaking an elderly women stood up in the church and she asked if she could change the format of the night as she had a urgent message from a spirit who was very anxious and upset. The reverend said you may proceed she was hanging onto a chair and said is there anyone here who has a young Mark on the other side, I am sure all of our mouths just dropped. She continued to say that Mark wants us to stay together and that he is doing what he was destind (sp) to do and we are supposed to do the same and that none of us are to join him before our time. She spoke with us for about 10minutes and then she said he leaves you till next time.

We were all moved and I could tell our two boys were really taken back. I was really excited as the medium I had saw earlier in the day had said she invited Mark to attend one of their church meetings but for him to visit one of the other mediums to speak with his family? She had never said Marks name and I had never told her it, the medium also described his passing which she never knew. So I have been thinking ever since and I am wondering why do I still have doubts, what is wrong with me. I guess as they say I am in this journey of grief and it will take me time to sort through everything.

Thanks again for all your thoughts on Marks birthday I knew that at least those of you here knew what that day was like. Bye Roxy. Marksmomforever.

[marksmom]

I just wanted to say WELCOME to Denise and Mothersangel, I hope you find some comfort here among the other parents who have had to endure the loss of a child. I am also fairly new here our son was taken from us tragicly on March 13th, 2005 (5 months ago)do to a horrible quad accident and our lives are forever changed. I remember the first day I ran across this site I read the posts and felt so understood as many things I read that others wrote I was feeling so I joined and started posting, so far all the people I have met here have been great I am only sorry for what has brought us together. I would not want anyone to have to endure this pain yet I am glad to know there are others like us so I am sorry for your loss but I welcome you! Bye ROxy (marksmom)