Loss of a Teenager

[joshsmom]

Kirk's Dad,

You have been such a great support person for me, being that you have a few years if insight, more than I do at this point, but i truly don't know how to comment on what your having to deal with!

I really find it hard to beleive that your church would build directly over this site, being that you are a member there and I am sure they are very much aware of your situation with this site!

I agree totally with Mark's Mom in that you could maybe pursuade them to pu the entrance door in a different location, but even having to drive in there every time you want to attend church......that would be so difficult, no matter how much time has passed!

Josh passed at one of his best friend's home, it's about 2 blocks down the street from our house. It's right on Main Street and so we pass it every day, and sometimes many times a day, I feel for his friend and their family to have to live there each day with this memory! I never did go there and see exactly where he was when he passed, I know it was in thier basement, a room that the boys worked very hard on to make into a "game room, TV room" where they could hang out. I went with them many times to buy stings of lights and posters and things to decorate the room and so I am unable to go there at all. My husband did, he passed in the morning and my husband went there that night. He found Josh's yellow Nike baseball hat and his cell phone! He also smashed a few things while he was down there! He said he just went crazy when he found those things of his! No one bothered him and eventually they came down and just told him it was time to go home and he did, but I just don't know how anyone can handle having to see and visit the location of their child's death, no matter where that is! I know some people only have that as a connection and I think that makes a difference too, but still, the memories are just too vivid there!

I don't know what else to say except to take your time in your desicions on how to handle this, I guess I would possibly opt to choose a different church??

My thoughts are with you as you struggle to find a solution!

Mark's Mom,

Thanks for the thoughtful post and wishes for Josh's birthday! I understand how the day could slip by! You just went through the same thing yourself!!!!

I woke up this morning realizing that Josh should be getting ready for his first day as a Senior in High School! I am totally crying as I type this as I know you are msot likely feeling the same thing! I can't understand why we were put into this situation! I never will.....gotta go, I can't see the keyboard anymore!

Love, hugs and prayers to everyone!

Josh's Mom (4-Ever!)

[hannahrosesmom]

Roxy - I can relate to the sleep problems. I fall asleep exhausted every night then tend to wake up at approx 3 a.m. when my mind starts racing and won't shut off. From then on I'm up for the day. By the end of the day I'm exhausted not only from lack of sleep the night before but also just from trying to function "normally" during the day....whatever normal is. It is truly a vicious cycle. I've come to the realization that the exhaustion is yet another thing I have to learn to cope with along with impaired memory and concentration skills. Those are just out the window.

Kirksdad- I like Griffinsmom's suggestion about the "In Memory of" plaque by the church door. At the same time I can understand how difficult it would be to be at that particular location. I have only been out to Hannah's crash site once and hace avoided it since then. The night she passed it was cold and rainy and her body was dead on the side of the road. I don't want to be in that spot ever. I prefer to be in places that hold better memories.

Roxy - I can relate to your mixed emotions concerning the quad. Since Hannah died I've been driving her car. While it holds fantastic memories of places we went and songs we sang in transit, it's also extremely painful because of those very same things. A Catch 21 if you will. When I am able to let go of that vehicle I have decided that I will drive it here to work one day, I work in a salvage yard, and into the crusher it will go. I don't want to see it on the road anywhere because I know I will always look to see her in the driver seat.

[Artina]

Jim,

I can't imagine how you are feeling right now, because I don't walk in your shoes. Whatever you decide to do will be the right choice for you. As you know, grief challenges are different for everybody and the building of a church on a location where a child lost their life could be helpful to some parents and extremely difficult for other parents. Thus, do whats right for you and your family.

Peace to you, Tina

[marksmom]

Hi To All,

THis morning I am posting as my thoughts come, I have just read the new posts from yesterday and today and I was thinking I get it. We all try to help one another and give what our thoughts are as that is all we have. I have never met a group of people who all get along as we seem to do, know we do not all have the same idea or the same advice however we respect each other as we know what each of us is having to endure. When I posted to Kirksdad I was trying to thing of something anything that I could say that would help to ease this pain as I and also many of you are struggling with the same issues. Like the places our children passed away, what brings us happy thoughts what makes us sad!!

I had said to my husband last night what if I can't make it, what if I cannot go on. He said we will because we have to, I said maybe but I don't want to live in this kindof pain forever and I can see know way for it to end unless I end. NO I am not suicidal however I feel that my heart is broken and cannot be fixed and the pain I am feeling is greater than any I have ever experienced.

What is a parent to do with that PAIN?? How do we cope, I guess it is one day at a time. MAYBE that is why we come here and understand each other as we know there is nothing like this, this is a completely separate journey (as they say).

Talk about a confusing lady!! Yup, thats me now. I just was thinking we all try so hard to make the other feel better yet we have nothing that binds us other than this horrible grief and so far I have not met anyone here that would ever say anything to cause anyone else here any more grief than we already carry. In my practice I often tell families that crisis brings about positive growth even if at the time we do not feel it, I have believed this my entire life UNTIL we dealt with our tragic crisis. BUT I hate to say it I have grown in ways i never wanted to because of this. I would have to say that my son Mark would be pleased he always said that everything should be for something and that all people should learn to value each other he hated people who hurt others both in adults and children. Without a doubt I know in my heart if he is seeing what I do when I come to post at this site, he would have to say look mom a group of people ONLY OUT TO COMFORT EACH OTHER, WHO COULD ASK FOR ANYTHING MORE!!

Sorry posting just my thoughts at the moment, take care Roxy.

[marksmom]

Hello,

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS HAPPEN, our son passed away in March 2005. this is now the third time we have had mail sent to him. YES the police sent the accident report to my son, then the we recieved a notice from the ambulance service addressed to our son and now we recieved one from the town ambulance to our son. My husband lost it this morning, he called the town and spoke with the local ambulance attendant and asked why would they send this bill to our son first he is only sixteen his AHC# and his Blue Cross # are not even in his name it is in my husbands name and they did not seem to have a problem getting that info so why in the heck would they address the bill to our son who is deceased!! THe man said he is sorry, I only wish he felt what I did when I opened the mail!! My husband also told the SGT. who is handling our sons case that they sent the report to our son, he to apoligized and said that should never have happened. BUT IT DID, and it hurts enough without that happening.

Has anyone else had this happen, is it normal?? Boy does it ever get to me, not things that cannot be helped but these could be. We have recieved notices about our sons upcoming grad and we even got a notice for his birthday from a club he belonged to that were not aware of what happened. BUT the other ones KNEW about his accident so why?? Ticked off this morning I guess, bye roxy.

[missingchris]

Marksmom,

Yes we have had that happen. It's been over a year now. The school just sent us a notice about Chris missing school. And subtly threatened a truant officer visit. I hope they show up.

Kirksdad, I can't imagine..... Do whatever feels right.

[kirksdad]

Thanks, I need the help. I don't know what is going to happen, but I know I will be there for the opening and play it by ear after that. I drive past this spot often. I guess in the beginning it seemed like a good thing, then I just started feeling the other way. We all know how attitudes, feeling, understanding change as easily as changing our clothes. I appreciate everyones thoughts, it helps.

As far as the mail, or getting calls to Kirk, it happened a lot. Selective Service of course sent out the warning for not registering, college sent out pamphlets to enroll, credit cards etc. Each time we got one our hearts sank more and more. It all happened within the first couple of years, but even now about every 6 months or so we get some junk in the mail addressed to Kirk. It really is a pain.

As for the schools, police or insurance companies addressing something to a minor, that is just ignorant, but we have all learned through our ordeal that people really can be ignorant.

[kirksdad]

Tina, you are so right, in the beginning I really felt something good about it, but when I saw it going up exactly where Kirk was killed it really set me back. I guess I was wanting to believe that was going to remain part of an open space and the Church would be somewhat away from it. It really is right at the entrance if not one of the entrances to the Church.

Maybe with all this suffering in the south I might be feeling really blue because of all the pain and hurt happening there right now. I guess I went home last night watched the new, felt bad, went past the construction site and then felt worse. Boy, this is the neverending story.

[mjsmom]

Kirdsdad,

I heart goes out to you. I am not a religious person, but I feel for you. I'm sure you'll work through your options, and go with your gut feeling. Peace to you.

Marksmom,

If you don't mind me asking did your son die on a fourwheeler a.ak.a. ATV, Quad.?

Michael died in an ATV accident. It was supposedly an unwitnessed accident.

I hired an expert 6 mos. after Michael's fatal accident due to a recall on his brakes. They found blue paint indicative of a hit and run. The police dropped the ball on so many things pertaining to Michael's accident. The never took down the peoples' name standing around him when the first cop arrived, they never asked any neighbors if they saw or heard anything. The fish and game where we lived at the time brought my son's ATV to the dealership I bought it at,had any repairs or maintenace work done.(Huge conflict of interest)

They never recreated then accident. Nothing but filling out their reports were done. They speculated and assumed what happened and wrote it as fact. My son had been driving ATV's for 6 years. Very experienced. There wasn't a single skid mark at the scene. My son would of never NOT TRY TO STOP!!!!!!!!

I wish I could of had my wits about me back then. I just starting realizing all their mistakes recently, and I want someone to answer to all that wasn't done in my son's accident case. I am so angry at them for not giving a sh** about my son, and finding out what really happened to him.

I no longer live in that community, only go there when it's his anniversary 8/22/03 or his birthday 12/06/89.

I should go now, Take care!

[mjsmom]

I also have had mail to Michael. He died just days before entering highschool. He obviously never attended that school. I then moved 40 miles south, to my childhood city near family 2 months after Michael died. They would mail me notices regarding certain events that were coming up. They would get forwarded to me multiple times. It took a year and many many phone calls to get it to stop.

[Artina]

When I first got mail addressed to my son, Chris, it would shock my system- until I changed my mind set and thought of it as a "hello" from Chris. Now when I get mail addressed to him I save the mailing label and chuckle a hello to my son. Of course the mail I am talking about is not related to his accident... that would never make me think he is saying "hello". No, I'm talking about junk mail that has no relationship to his death. Infact, I look for hidden messages in the junk mail- hoping that he is trying to say something through the mind of the sender. I always look for the number 42 and the color orange. This is my way of thinking... and it works for me.

I kept a checking account open that Chris and I shared (he was just 17 when I opened it for him) and I still get a monthly statement addressed to him and I and I don't want them to stop.

Peace to you, Tina

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Artina, you are such a loving Mom. Looking for a message from him like that is a neat idea. I can only think Chris is not just proud of his Mom, but I also am sure he loves you very much, with a love that is beyond this world. May comfort and peace fill your soul.

[griffinsmom]

Artina~(everyone)

I also take Griffins junk mail and say "Hi Griffin", especially all the offers for loans and credit cards. If he was here, he'd probably be applying for many credit cards- not to mention all the "free money" offers. I save the stuff and like to know that Griffin really was a member of this realm~ and I haven't taken him off as beneficiary of my checking acct, either- so the monthly statement is addressed to both of us.

Griffins eighth month in Heaven was yesterday, Giannas tenth month here.

Peace to all- Randi

[titoyginasmom]

Today I just am having a really bad day. I think I talked about the fact our church is building a new church. When they talked about it I knew it was on the land where Kirk was killed, but it seems the church is being built right over the spot where he died, the entrance will probably be right where he died. I just drove past and the foundation is being put in place. I am happy about the church, but feeling very sad about the fact that to go there means that each Sunday we would have to cross the spot where he was killed and it would be a constant reminder of that night. That night is so stamped into my brain anyway that being there weekly is something I am not sure I am going to be able to take. It is a wonderful thing, but yet, it will break my heart.

Jim,

I wish I knew something to say that would bring you comfort. I do know that each person has their own way of dealing. Example: some wish to visit the sites where their children went to God, while others stay as far away from the spot as possible, still others tend to only visit gravesides or accident sites on special occasions. I personally think all of these are correct...for each person. Take my situation for another example. There were 5 people killed that morning, 3 were buried, and two (mine) cremated. My family made sure the EXACT spot the one girl died had a cross built over it so NO one could descrate it later. I visit often, and drive past it every day. I also have a small area in my front yard with a joint headstone as a Memorial Marker for my Tito and Gina. I decorate both places, and spend time at each. I would give anything to have our parish (or any church for that matter) to buy the land and place a church on it! How much better to remind not just myself, but everyone about saftey and love of family? Of course, like Randi (Griffinsmom) this is just my opinion.

Kathie......forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[sarasmom]

I visit the crash site where my Sara died often. The kids are still writing messages on the two crosses there. One of her classmates put up a cross and somebody else put up a bigger one. You can still find pieces of the car out there. We spent a lot of time out there after the accident looking for the cross she was wearing that day. We only got the chain back but not the cross. We never did find it. My Husband looked all over in the car too. My daughter is buried almost across the road from us. Our Church is there with a cemetery next to it. It's beautiful out there. We live in the country and she walked past the cemetery and past the church to the churches playground almost everyday to swing on the swings. I can sit in my yard and see where she is buried. It's like she is still at home. I walk over there almost everyday but it just doesn't seem real to me that she is in the ground in that spot.

[Artina]

Randi,

I feel the same way!

Tina

[Artina]

Alwaymyjennifer,

Thank you for that comment.

Peace to you too, Tina

[hannahrosesmom]

I’m not having a good day. The last couple days my husband had one of his “Jekyll and Hyde” episodes. He’ll sleep all day and night, sometimes up to a week. He’ll wake up 2 or 3 times a day and just be absolutely vile. Hey gets mean, nasty and extremely antagonistic. Doesn’t matter what you say or do it’s NOT the right thing. That was Saturday and Sunday, today he woke up and is in his Jekyll mode. Calm, cool, and completely unaware of how completely horrible he’s been to me. There are no apologies, no explanations, no remorse – nothing. Tomorrow Hannah would be starting her Senior year of high school. This weekend has been painful enough and didn’t really need his disgusting behavior on top of it. I am so horribly hurt, I feel raw and almost violated. I have been in tears all day and have this overwhelming urge to run. Where I would go I don’t know. I don’t want to be near anyone or be anywhere else except here, in my living room where she and I spent so much time snuggled on the couch. It’s one of those days where I miss the love, warmth, happiness and joy she brought into my life so badly I can’t stand it. I’ve gone from bright and beautiful to ugly and grey. Tomorrow I get to go to work after such an awful holiday weekend and try to pretend nothing is wrong. If I think about it, I’ll never make it through the day in one piece. Peace to us all and Peace to you my sweet Hannah. I love you and I miss you so very much………

[joshsmom]

Hannah's Mom,

I feel for you and I know the awful feelings you are going through! It's such an alone feeling! I know because my husband went through times like what you desribed! I know everyone grieves differently and I try very hard to put myself into his place when he gets like that, but it's hard when I can't have days like that too! I would love to just turn on him and treat him awful and say hurtful things and just get them off my chest, knowing that he'll understand that I am just grieving too, but I can't! I feel that I have had to be the stonger one and remain sane so that my whole family didn't and doesn't fall completely apart! I still feel now, after almost 16 months, and alot of the mood swings and ugliness from my husband gone, that I was left with my grieving process interrupted and not left to go through the "normal" steps again and again, like he was allowed to do. I try not and dwell on it too much now, I am just very thankful that things have improved for us, as a family, but I still wonder what would ahve happened if it would have been me who was allowed to completely fall apart?? I wonder if I would have been able to pull myself out of that?? I sort of think that I was the one that wouldn't allow myself to fully except and grieve over Josh! Even now, I feel that my mind wont let me truly think about what's happened to him, because if I did, I don't think I would be able to function! I think that my brain has only taken in as much as it knows that I can fathom! My kids are my whole life! I lived for them even before they were born! I didn't drink or smoke or do anything that would have possibly hurt them! I protected them the best I knew how! My husband had a very good job while the boys were growing up which allowed me to be a stay at home Mom, which was a blessing to me! My husband missed out on alot with them growing up, because he worked alot of the time!

I miss Joshua so much my whole body hurts! I don't let myself think about it too much because I'm afraid that I might snap and not come back! My older son needs me and my husband needs me to be OK! I want them to have that so they don't fall apart! I don't let myself think very often! I just keep teeling myself that Josh is always with me! He is always close to me, just in a different way than before! I can somehow go on thinking like that! It may not be the right way, but it's my only way! I love my son and I don't want him to see me faling apart, or the family that he knows, breaking apart! That is what keeps me strong! I need to keep going for him too! I don't want him to think that he caused us to have so much pain! It was an accident and not his fault!

Anyway, I just had to post back to you, because I didn't want you to feel alone! Hannah is there with you!!!!! Just sit on your couch and let her sit with you! Feel her close to you!

I'll pray that your husband can get through his pain and begin to heal also. Try to understand him and show him that you love him no matter what your all going through! I think sometimes they need to be reasurred also that they're life as they knew it will be somehow OK!

Hugs and Prayers to you,

Josh's Mom!

[ribitsmom]

Hannah’s Mom,

I wish that I could give advice that will help you to shake your husband into seeing how he is hurting you with the way he is acting. As Josh’s mom said, we all grieve in different ways and need to learn to be tolerant of each other…however, that goes two ways, and your husband (or anyone that is being difficult) also needs to understand that what they are doing is hurtful and not helping. I think that it takes an extremely lucky couple to have no issues after going through the tragedy that we have gone through, and I say that tongue in cheek, none of us are lucky or we would not have gone through the loss of our child/children. It is a very fine line we walk with our spouses and surviving children. We can’t tell them that they are grieving all wrong, because there isn’t a correct way to grieve, but we also might see that they can use some help and you can’t force them to get the help they need, they need to be willing to do it on there own. I am not sure if I was lucky that my husband was gone for almost 1.5 yrs after the accident, due to his job he traveled for weeks at a time and would come home for 1-2 weeks and leave again, or was it harmful to the grieving process? I will never know other than we are still married and have pretty good communication skills but we are still walking on egg shells with each other and with our son about the accident that took our daughter.

Your husbands sleeping habits sound like a deep depression, however, I am not in your house and don’t see everything that is going on. I know that we are almost at the 2 year mark and none of us sleep through the night yet, my son and husband both take Ambian for help sleeping. I don’t take anything but I only get about 4 hours of sleep a night, I figure that my body will crash when it has had enough…I am very afraid of becoming dependant on sleep aids, as I drank alcohol pretty heavily for at least the first year, I have now limited myself to only socializing and find that I have a worse time falling asleep now but it is a price I will pay as I was setting a very bad example for my son who is now 18. Please know that I hope the best for you and your family.

Denise-loving mom of Bridgette

[ribitsmom]

Kirks Dad,

I agree with trying to use the Church as a positive thing…I have no idea if you will be able to do that or not, only you will know. In our case with the train accident, I have to cross that intersection multiple times a day, I can go around but as time has passed I prefer to go pass the intersection. I use this to my benefit as I can say “Love you Bridge” every time I go over the tracks. For me it was difficult to get myself in that frame of mind but I eventually did and now it is comforting for me. With the church being at the site of the accident maybe you and your family will be able to look at it as though Kirk is there in Church with you, sitting with you. Maybe you can picture him chuckling at the service or yawning through the service right along with you.

Sara’s Mom,

I would love to believe that Sara took the cross with her, I don’t know if that helps at all, but of all things, I was upset because I couldn’t find a pair of Bridgette’s shoes. When I cleaned out her closet she had 36 pair of shoes and I was worried about 1 pair…how silly of me, but I was still upset about it. Then I decided to think that Bridge took them with her. They were pretty cool shoes.

Mark’s Mom,

We too still get mail for Bridgette after almost 2 yrs. I never thought of looking at it as a “hello” from Bridge, but now I will. (Good idea). As for the bills, I think I would have almost sent them back and told them they won’t be getting any money as Mark was unable to pay. I hope that didn’t come across too insensitive, but my thought on the bills coming in Marks name was just TOO INSENSITIVE.

As for holidays…they are all awful. Thanksgiving was Bridgette’s birthday time, so we always celebrated with family and friends and she always wanted to have pumpkin pie for her Bday cake, her favorite food was green bean casserole and it is just to difficult to sit at a table and try to put food down my throat that my daughter will never be able to eat again…and she loved to eat. Very long and lanky and never put on a pound.

I was not a good mom when my son’s birthday (his 18th) rolled around, I didn’t get him a cake or make any big deal for him, my husband was due back in town in just a couple days and I thought I would wait…well, he went out and bought his own cake and brought it home. I can’t tell you how bad that broke my heart, I felt like such a sh**. How in the world do you make up for the mistakes that you make to the surviving child? We buy him Christmas gifts and take him as far way from home as we can to “not celebrate”. We don’t feel the good cheer and happiness and don’t really want to be around people that do, but are we hurting him by doing this?

Denise

[mjsmom]

Ribitsmom,

I don't think your choices of X-mas are hurting your son. My daughter is only 6 y.o. By the time she was almost 5 she had been through a family break up (divorce), the death of her only sibling who she adored, and we moved shortly after Michael died and sold our home. Chanel gets a children's party for her birthday, and that's 4 days after X-mas. Her father brought over a cake for the three of us on her 5 birthday 4 months after Michael died. All I did is cry. There are no signs of holidays in our house. I do feel guilty, that I can't take her trick or treating, my sister does it. I do feel guilty she doesn't have a Thanksgiving dinner, a tree or decorations for x-mas. But life has not been kind to our family. I believe she is a happy child all considering. She understands I love her more than anything, and this is how I have to get through the holidays, and my children's birthdays in Dec. I know she would like to have what all the other kids have with the celebrating, but she's much rather have Mikey!!!!! We have to do what ever feels right. I don't exchange gifts with my family anymore, and they respect that I don't observe my birthday, because it's another year gone by without my beautiful son. We have enough to feel guilty about, don't put yourself through more than life has given us. My daughter could have lost both her brother and her mother if I was pressured into birthdays and holidays due to society. But she has me because I do what I have to do to get through them.

Take care, Michael John's mum forever, Marnie

[ribitsmom]

Thanks Marnie...that helps.

[mjsmom]

Today is just a few minutes I'm getting my daughter up for the first day of 1st grade. Michael should be here to see her. He would be so excited. Granted he didn't go to this school system when he died, but he should be getting ready as well. Oh how I hate this. Don't you feel like saying to someone somewhere, Ok I've been torchered enough now, it's time for this punishment to be over? Ok bring him back now.

I have to get my pokerface ready to go into the school yard where all the so called normal people with all their children are alive are. I wonder how many will start small talk with me, and the inevitable happens. The subject of how many kids do you have. And there it is a generally benign questions opens this whole can of worms. How mamy people this year after finding out will wait for the kids clear across the schoolyard, like I have some rare communicable disease. I must go and get prepared. Time for my babygirl to wake up and face the world without her brother.

Until later,

Marnie

[hannahrosesmom]

Hannah would have started her senior year yesterday. I am an emotional train wreck. I couldn't stop thinking about what she'd be doing to get ready to start her final year of high school. I was already crushed and heartbroken. My husband went into one of his Jekyll and Hyde episodes so I was trying to survive the verbal abuse he threw at me all weekend on top of it. My mother was up visiting so I had to pretend nothing was wrong when I took her to see the memorial garden at the high school and then across the street to the cemetery, Hannah's headstone was put in place a few weeks ago. Yesterday the bank called to tell me that our joint account was almost a thousand dollars in the hole. I had to take money that I was smart enough to put into a personal account to cover it. My husband lost his job after Hannah died and refused to find another. When the insurance settlement came in he spent the money as fast as he could. He was very hostile when he found out about my accounts but what else could I do? I had to have money to pay bills with because he wasn't working. So apparently he's just been writing checks on an account that has no money. I put my paychecks in my account so he can't spend them. Somehow I summoned the strength to NOT lose my temper and speak matter of factly to him about the bank account. He FINALLY started a job last week and I need to know when he gets his first check. The money I used to cover his empty checks is the mortgage money. Now I have to take from my savings to cover it. My heart feels the way New Orleans looks, nothing but mass destruction. Today at work I feel shaky and been fighting the tears all day. I am having a hard time being civil to my co workers and have NO patience. I don't know how much longer I can live like this, the only time I can "safely" mourn the loss of Hannah is if I go to the cemetery. At home I'm afraid I'll get caught. I'm so stressed and I see I'm rambling again. She was everything good in my life and it's gone. How is one to survive that?

[mjsmom]

Hannahasmom,

I feel for you. I don't know if I have any words of encouragement. I'm sure keeping your family together is probably important to you. I left my exhusband/childrens' dad 14 months before Michael died. It had been a long time coming. If I had stayed with him he would have buried me as well. He is now homeless (stays here and there), works only a few days here and there for a construction company, his car is off the road, and he has been drinking to try to die quicker ( his words ).

I don't work anymore. I used to be a charge nurse and took care of myself and my children well. Now I can't work. I give you so much credit.

There is nothing easy about outliving your children..... and you have other major issues to deal with. All I can say is go with your gut feelings. You'll figure out what is best for you and any surviving children you have.

Raising my daughter is my sole and only reason to live now. And sometimes I don't even know if I am strong enough to do that. (Don't get me wrong I do it)

Do you belong to a support group like The Compassionate Friends? Do you go to therapy? I do both. I went to one of my meetings last night and therapy on Thursday mornings. It sounds like you need more support and to talk things over with an unbias person. I don't like to try to give advice at all. I'm am far from in that position. I hope you figure out the right thing to do.

Take care of yourself,

Marnie Michael John's mum forever

[Artina]

Hannahrosesmom,

I just want you to know that I care. I want you to know that you matter. I want you to know that you are not alone...

I pray that once Hannah's graduating class graduates, the school year kick off will be easier on you.

Hang on and do exactly what you are doing- one day at a time and be sure to schedule in some time for yourself with a grief therapist. Do this for yourself... because you can't keep all the balls in the air for everybody.

Peace to you, Tina

[sarasmom]

My husband and I have had some rough patches since Sara died. He is so angry and tends to take it out on me and our son Jake. I was in a snit on Sunday and he said why are you so testy? Of course I'm suppose to be the strong one. I said well you get angry and take it out on me and when I get angry and get mad you want to know whats wrong? I am also going through menopause so that doesn't help me either. I work second shift so we don't see earch other a lot so maybe thats a good thing. I think we do have a strong marriage though and we will make it through this. Hannahs mom I hope things get better for you and your husband.

[daleandbetty]

We have our son's memorial service in two weeks at his school. We're not sure what to expect or what they are planning. Our son was very well liked and well known at his high school and public school so there will likely be a lot of classmates there.

We are still having a difficult time decideing how to deal with our oldest son. Both of our boys lived on their motorcycles and it's difficult to let our oldest do the things he used to do. They always worked together building different go carts and other motorized things. Corey just made a new go cart using a handicapped scooter and a small engine. He wanted to drive it on the pavement in front of our house( Travis was killed in front of our house on the road) I finally got mad and said "and what if you wipe out and get killed, Travis has only been dead two months THINK". I know he was mad but I really didn't know what else to say at that point, it makes me so mad that we have to change everything we do because of this. Later on my wife and I let him drive it once down the road to see if it would work.

[Artina]

DaleandBetty,

I totally understand where you are coming from. It is so hard to live life with that bliss that we once had. I think it's okay to look at situations that our potentially dangerous and make safe decisions based on the facts. I have a 16 year old son (my only living child) who just started driving and I struggle with fear everyday that he leaves for school. FEAR!!! I'd like to think that this is normal wheather one has lost a child or not.

Peace to you, Tina

[joshsmom]

I struggle with that same fear for my only living child, my son, whose turning 21 next week Thursday! I am so afraid of him being able to go into bars with his friends and be driving!

He tells me all the time, not to worry, but I heard that before from my younger son, and look what happened!

The only thing that I do know is that my older son does realize now that we are not invincible and that if your not careful, bad things can happen!

I'm praying that he will remember when he is out and about, and always be safe!

I also know that Josh is his guardian angel and that he will always be watching over his big brother!

This is what gives me the most peace and so I just put my trust in this and go through each day as it comes!

It is so hard!!! I know it's not going to get any easier either, I will always be an over protective Mom!!!!! It's something I just can't turn off! Even though it doesn't always work!!!

Josh's Mom

[hannahrosesmom]

i can relate to that fear also. My son Zach is 20 and now my only child also. I draw small comfort that he recently bought a brand new car with all kinds of safety features. Even though Hannah was not the driver of the car she was killed in, it still makes me feel better that he's in a safer car.

This si the second night this week my husband did not come home. As usual he's angry with me for his behavior and as usual is blaming his behavior on me. Whatever. My conscious is clear in that dept. The last time we had a huge fight when he tried to put all the blame of everrything wrong in our marriage on me was kind of the last straw. I'm sorry but it tales two and I'm sorry that his friends and other interests took precedence over his wife and kids. Since that fight I thought long and hard about things said that night. I have admitted to him several times during the course of this nightmare that I was having anger issues and that my anger was not with him but at the two drivers responsible for killing our daughter. He prefers to think that any and all anger i feel is all with him. If I am not smiling and happy go lucky at all times he accuses me of being angry at him. If I don't have a smile on my face as soon as i wake up or if I'm doing something as mundane as housework I get accused of being in a bad mood. I cannot visibly grieve for my daughter in his presence without fear of a angry tirade from him so I have sort of, in a way, put my grief on hold. I guess you could say it's a form of self preservation. Since then I have taken utmost care in how I talk, act, and most of all, keep all anger out of my voice. I painstakingly force myself to act as if nothing is wrong in ALL I say and do. I'm not sure how I do it but I have to be clear in my own heart that I am doing everything I can to keep my heart and concscience clear that I'm NOT the cause of everything evil he does. After his Jekyll and Hyde episode and the money thing last week I was a basket case and almost unable to function. My anxiety levels were off the charts, I was unable to sleep, and was very unpleasant at work. I tried hard not to be but sometimes I just couldn't control it. Thursday night my husband said he was going to meet me at the Compassionate Friends meeting when I knew full well he wouldn't and didn't, nor did he come home that night. While at work friday when I almost felt like I'd have to leave work for fear of a real nervous breakdown, I called an made a doctor appt to get an anti-depressant. Thank goodness they have a Saturday clinic! Friday night when I got home from work he was still nowhere to be seen. I don't know if he went to work. That night I went to see our son's band play, got home around 2:30 a.m. and he was home sleeping on the couch. He doesn't answer his phone anymore so doubtful he knows he missed one of Zach's shows. Saturday morning he woke up, said he had to go into work and I haven't seen him since, it is now early Sunday morning. I admit I felt huge relief when he said he was going to work, and no I don't beleive for an instant that's where he went, because I really needed a quiet day to decompress. when I got to the appt the tending nurse was one of the ones that was in the emergency room the night Hannah died. She recognized who I was immediately and I just burst into tears. that woman was so wonderful. She let me cry, she listened, and she hugged me. the doctor I saw turned was the one who worked on Hannah. I didn't realize that until he said it and the flood gates opened. What are the chances I would see those two people on this particular morning. the amount of compassion I got from them was wonderful. He put me on the anti-depressant and gave me something to help me sleep. I know it will take a while for the A-D's to work their magic. I took the sleep meds last night but they only worked until about 3:30 this morning and have been up ever since. Now I'm stuck in the dread of when hubby is going to come home and the anxiety of what to expect when he does. This is no way to live, I miss my Hannah........

[sarasmom]

Hannahsmom I'm so sorry about what you are going through. You shouldn't have to be dealing with an angry husband while mourning the death of Hannah. I wish there was something I could do for you. Did you have a good marriage before Hannah died?

I have been on an antidepressent since March or April of this year for anxiety. I take 20mg of Paxil and it does help. I have had panic attacks on and off since my early 20s and only when driving. I never have been in a serious car accident so I don't know why I get them when driving and now with Sara being killed in a car accident I don't know what to think.

I'm not sleeping well either. I don't know if it's me or my mattress. Could be a combo of both I guess. I got to bed thinking about Sara and wake up thinking about Sara. It's hard to look at other teenagers and think about what Sara is missing.

Hang in there Hannahsmom

Love

Jo

[ribitsmom]

Hannahsmom: I don't even know what I want to write...I just know that I want to give you a huge hug. I am so sorry that things are so miserable with your husband right now. I know...because everyone say's so, that the loss of a child is very devistating to a marriage. My thought on this is that both partners need to participate in pulling together...that means your husband too.

It is very difficult to put into words and have the other understand where you are coming from...have them understand the hurt you are feeling and why you are feeling it, without pointing fingers at eachother about blame. My thought is that neither of you are to blame, the loss of Hannah is to blame. this assumption is based on the marriage being great to begin with and things going to POO after the accident. I don't know your marriage so can only make guesses by what you have wrote on this forum.

As for sleep deprivation...I bet most of us have this. I sleep maybe 4 hours a night. My husband and son both take a sleep agent (ambien)because they too are not sleeping. This is after 2 years that we are still not sleeping. I spoke with a friend that lost a child 5 years ago and she is still not sleeping, along with her husband.

the only thing I can recommend is to seek help, from here and elsewhere. Even if your husband doesn't seek the help you will have an outlet for your anger and frustration.

[mjsmom]

Hannahrosesmom,

First off I'm sorry for all your going through. Have you considered seening a therapist to help you sort out everything. Alot of what you say I can identify with in my own situation with my exhusband. He used to accuse me of just about anything, not come home at night, etc. This was no marriage. It took me 1 1/2 of planning, but I got out from the rollercoaster of behavior and it's was the best thing. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy to say the least. And compounded with your grief for you daughter Hannah, it must be unbarable. You need to think of you and any surviving children now. Unfortunately, your husband it stopping you from grieving for Hannah. I found a good therapist worth it. They don't judge, they are an unbias objective voice. Please just give it a try, for your own sanity. My exhusband it what I call a crazy maker.

And it sounds like yours could be that too. I'm sending my hope and good thoughts that you will find the strength to seek help in your life decision.

You'll be in my thoughts,

Take care,

Marnie, Michael John's mum forever

[mjsmom]

Hannahrosesmom

I too took an antidepressant, and an antianxiety medicine for approximately 1 1/2 after Michael died. They take the edge off, but being a former nurse and reading all the literature regarding grief. Sometimes it can prolong the grieving process. I go off both in the spring of last year. Best thing I ever did. All the meds in the world arent' going to bring our children back, or have or spouses act appropriately. Short term they are fine. Your daughter would probably want you to dig down deep and do what's right for you. I am only speaking from experience. Others who spouses aren't pathologic wouldn't understand. It's just like losing a child, no one can understand unless they have gone through it. Take care.

Marnie

[ribitsmom]

Kirksdad: Is it possible to put other Threads under loss of a child? For instance; I see that quite a few of us have had marrital issues after the loss of a child. I feel that a thread specific to marriage and how it is effected after a loss would be helpful. Another thought would be a thread for raising our surviving chidren after the loss of a child. I know that I have had issues in that area as well and would like to be able to focus on that.

Thanks Denise

[joshsmom]

RibitsMom,

I second that!! Great idea, if it can be done!!

We can all use help in so many areas, thank God for this site, and the wonderful and thoughtful people that meet here!

If only it was for a better reason!

Josh's Mom

[hannahrosesmom]

I like the idea too! I feel terrible whining about my marital problems on this thread but sometimes it's the only place I can find support or kinship???

I was back at the Dr this morning after I got another call from the bank that hubby is still out writing checks to a local bar of all places. I told them to send them back, I'm not paying them and to shut off the debit cards to that account. I have my own on my personal account. I had a MAJOR anxiety attack, had to leave work and go see the Dr. Luckily she is also a personal friend and has known Hannah for a long time. She gave me some Xanax to help out with the stress until the anti-depressants kick in. The Ambien hasn't helped at all. I fall asleep but can't stay asleep. At 3 a.m. my eyes are wide open and mind racing. This morning I woke up to hubby clanging and banging in the kitchen. He made a meal, left the schrapnel everywhere, and went back to sleep. Apparently he thinks I like to clean up after him. I can barely clean up after myself muchless him. I am also refusing to do his laundry. Yes it's spiteful but he hasn't helped with ANY of the household duties since Hannah died and he's been unemployed just as long. I'm fed up with it all dumped on me and nothing but belligerance from him. Can't wait until he asks me about it!!!!!!

[marksmom]

Hello to all,

I thought I would go crazy this past week as we had no phone lines in turn I could not get on the internet which meant I had to survive without all of you. I was horrible I have always felt that you all have been my greatest support since our son died but now I know it as I felt totally out of it.

Anyway I am so relieved to be able to come back on line. I like many of you had such a hard time with the starting school moment and then today I got the kids ready for school pictures and I had to really hold myself together. I kept thinking this year Mark would graduate, this is the year he looked forward to. This is so terribly unfair. Last night I was thinking if I had a sword I would stick it right through me, honestly that was my thought because I cannot stand this pain it is like nothing I have ever experienced and I cannot do anything to help myself.

I know you all understand but I feel like my family and friends just don't get it. Yes, I work and I keep going I have two other sons, but it is so hard. Our whole lives have been ripped apart. Somedays I don't even recognize our family. At times I think I just can't do it. This is way to much to expect any person to endure.

Today it has been exactly six months since I spoke to our son or gave him a kiss or hug or told him to drive safely. Six whole months it seems like it has been a lifetime for me. YEt at the same time I think its like we blinked and already we have survived six months without him. I don;t know this is all so confusing..........

Thanks so much for being here, I really don't think I could make it without all of you. bye marksmomforever. (roxy)

[marksmom]

Hi,

Once again it is the wee hours of the morning and I have finally caught up with all the posts I have missed. I do wish I had some kind of good advice or words of wisdom some magic to ease the pain however the only thing I am sure of is that we all seem to understand each other and can identify with this nightmare even when others around us don't.

Mjsmom, I am sorry I did not answer your questions from your last post about my sons accident but I was unable to get on the computer. But after reading your post about how your sons accident was investigated I got even angrier as the two situations sound all to familiar. I was kindof hopeing that what happened in our case was a isolated incident and just a mistake or human error.

Our son was riding his quad when the accident happened and like you we were in so much shock that the night of it we believed what we were told. However when my husband later looked at our sons quad he noticed that the quad had no damages to the area they said was the point of impact. We also did not know that night that the man who hit him was drinking. I don't want to bore everyone with the details but in short we found over the next few weeks that most of what we heard was not truthful, we also discovered that WE seemed to be the only people interested in exactly what did happen. SILLY me I always thought the police were to find out what happens, you know investigate but guess what that is not there responsibility. SO many things have made us upset regardin this case and it was only when we really started pushing did we get any response. We also hired our own engineer and investigator as I don't trust anyone anymore, they only do what they see fit and nothing more. THe police acutally told me that this man would already be charged with manslaughter or causing death if they had of been in a vehicle, however given the information they have, the fact that the scene was tampered with (not by my son or us) the criminal walks of course the victim is dead so who speaks for him. We have thought long and hard about what to do and for me there is no choice I will not let up until they either do there job properly or I will call them on every unethical and incompetent action they took that night.

Sorry got carried away but I just wanted you to know, I feel alot like you. Our son was a very experienced careful driver, he had not been drinking he's been riding quads with my husband since he was six and he knew the safety aspects of riding. THis guy made a mistake and he has never said a word to us even that would have gave me reason to leave well enough alone but NO. For me he has to be held responsible for his actions our son was sixteen he was twenty-one.

Marnie when I read your comment on "okay enough is enough bring him back" I thought that is exactly what my head has been saying. Someone please fix this, he can't be gone he has everything to live for he is only sixteen. He is a good kid, no drugs, no smoking, never drank and drove any type of vehicle was loved by so many people it is just not right. NO parent should have to endure this.

Know my thoughts are with you and I am here if you ever want to talk. take care Roxy.

[marksmom]

Dale and Betty,

After reading your post I could really identify with your dilema as our son was in a quading accident and our boys have all been riding since a young age. They have followed the SAFETY RULES, they do know how to ride. However NOW what do I do, I am scared that something might happen to our youngest boy, he does want to continue to ride and I am trying to give him the same space I did Mark.

I remember the week after Mark accident our youngest son said I want to ride his quad when it is fixed, both my husband and I immediately said NO we don't know if anyone will ever ride a quad again here and maybe never that quad Mark was on it when he was killed afterall. Then our son asked his dad can I take my motorbike for a ride and he was really angry that day my husband let him I was furious with him. BUT Jordan got on it rode hard for about 15 minutes parked it and did not even ask to ride again until last month. I think he had to get it out of his system. HE also never asked us to fix his older brothers quad until this week.

Yesterday he asked some of Marks riding friends over and they went out to the jumps and the track, our youngest boy went with our other sons quad. I worried sick but it was so good to see our son smile. He said to me later that night when I was crying "mom if it hurts you this much I won't ride anymore". At that moment I knew it is wrong for me not let him ride I even went so far as to say as soon as this investigation is over we will get Marks quad fixed, I did say I am not sure if it will be rode or not but it will get fixed.

I know how much joy our son Mark got from quading and that quad was his pride and joy when I look at it I see his hard work in each sticker or new chrome piece. It is just so wrong he did everything right and someone else chose to drink and drive a quad and that is why our son is dead. Now what, I said maybe if we never had any quads, motorbikes etc our son would still be here. BUT who knows and the joy I see in his face in the videos well they are priceless. Do we now take that away from our youngest son, I don't know I just know all of this is terribly unfair.

I just wanted you to know as parents we are suffering the same decissions and feelings your not alone.

I also wanted to say that our sons school did a memorial service they called it a "celebration of life". We were not even sure we could go but at the last minute we went, I have to say we were overwhelmed they did such a good job. Our son was in grade 11 and was making a video about "picking up girls" in graphic class, we had never seen this video and it was very funny and cute. They also had different teens doing songs, poems and readings. THere was a tribute to him from the teachers that was unbelieveable. THey included all the paul bearers in the ceremony they had his siblings come up and light candles as did many of his close friends. He was in welding and mechanics and had started to build a "chopper" he was two days away from finishing it. At the celebration they had this on a pedistal in the fouye of the school, although we saw his blue prints and helped fund the project we had not saw it until that day. We were very proud of his accomplishments as the "chopper" is definately a work of art. It was built with parts from the farm and very little was bought, he built or modified things from scratch.

Anyway I just know that for us the whole thing ended up being great, I was so thankful we went. His locker was like a shrine, over 700 kids came as well as many adults. Hopefully your sons school will do something that will comfort you and give you support. You could maybe ask for a outline of what they will do, so you can be prepared.

THe only downside to this was now every time I go to the school I see his locker the gym the place his chopper was on show not to mention I can see him bounceing down the hallway to greet me, but I would have to say it was all worth it.

I don't have much advice as we are very much in a crash mode, every day I feel like I cannot stand this pain one more minute. I miss our son more each day, I get angry and sad when I least expect it. Not to mention I worry constantly about our other two sons. I just wanted to tell you a bit about our experience so you can know your not alone as a matter a fact it is terribly sad that so many of us do know what we each are having to deal with as this is every parents Nightmare!

Be good to yourselves you need it. If I can help in anyway let me know or give me a email if you just want to vent. And of course this is a great place to come to, for me it has been a life saver.

Take care, marksmomforever (Roxy)

[sarasmom]

I'm going to have a quilt made in memory of Sara. I have a friend that makes them and she can even scan pictures on material. So I will be gathering up all of her favorite clothes and pictures. If I had the extra money I would have one made for her best friend for a Christmas gift. I'll have to see what the cost is.

This use to be my favorite time of year but I just feel numb. I feel no joy in anything anymore. I use to sit and just look at Sara and think wow so beautiful. Her kindness to others. She was always the first kid to befriend the new kids at school. She gave me so much joy. I miss her so much.

[kirksdad]

Sarasmom, we had teddy bears made out of Kirk's clothes and gave them to some of the kids in the family. They were so cute. I had one made out of his old cub scout uniform and his golf shirt that we just love. We sleep with the teddy bear that was made from his shirt at his 8th grade graduation. The family just loved them. A quilt of pictures would be so nice, at some time we want to do that also, finding time is hard though. At some time we want to take his jeans and make a jean quilt out of them, too. Our home ec teacher mentioned at one time she might have the kids work on one with her help. Doing those kinds of things are such a wonderful way to keep our kid's presence in our lives. I look at those bears and remember everything that was associated with them and it is a real positive thing.

[daleandbetty]

We just found out a few more details from the "accident". The police have now closed the case and there is no charges being laid. They never did a breathalizer test. The kid admitted to drinking and the office had him blow in her face to see if she could smell alcohol. The cop said there was no grounds for a breathilizer. The kid admitted to drinking and there was a fatality, what more cause do they need? The corner's report also said that my son was sitting on the side of the road then drove into the path of the car. How would an autopsy reveal this. The investigator's all said he drove up the ditch and onto the road. The driver said said my son was jumping the roadway and was in the air when he was hit. The passenger in the front seat received glass cuts on his hands even though that side of the car wasn't damaged, was he driving? They allowed the kids to take items from the car before it was towed then the next day they allowed them to remove more items while the car was in an impound yard and before the police inspected it?? My son flew several hundred feet, his motorcycle slide 300 feet and they were only driving 50 miles per hour? They want $500 for a copy of the police report. We have decided we are going to have sue to get some answers. The police should have done a breathilizer test or a blood test especially when he admitted to drinking. We are currently looking for a lawyer that isn't somehow involved with the driver's family they own a local insurance company. We have received the coroner's report which basically says he was killed several times on impact. Broken neck, burst heart, lungs and liver and 50 miles per hour. He was wearing full motocross gear. And we have to see his family every single day..

[marksmom]

I COULD NOT BELIEVE MY EYES,I ACTUALLY HAD TO STOP AND THINK DID I POST THIS!!

Dale and Betty, I am truly not kidding our sons accidents sound very familiar, at least as far as what the police have done to help. I was really hopeing what happened in our situation was unique that it was just a serious of bad judgement or human error. BUT no you are recieveing the same support and attention that we have had this past six months.

We finally got fed up a few weeks ago and hired a very good investigator who happens to be a engineer. He specializes in re-creating accident scenes. He told us right up front that he could not believe that the police DID NOT DO A BREATHALIZER, which is exactly how we felt from the beginning. BUT the police gave us several different excuses as to why they never did it. The first reason was the police were likely helping our son as many times they have to let go of a possible case to provide the best help to a victim. (yet our son was gone before the police arrived). Then we were told that the officer was new and was likely upset at the scene. Next we were told it was the police officers call if she did not have reason to suspect the man was drinking then she should not ask for a breathalizer. (any fool who came upon a accident fatality where there were 10 to 20 teens and a man who said he only had a few drinks, yeah there was likely no reason).

The thing that mad us really angry is all the people our investigators spoke with which were adults in the area at the time said that young man was very drunk and usually is!! No kidding, everyone knows his usual style, not to mention he got a ticket and a warning three weeks prior for the same thing. Heres the worst thing the first officer on the scene who made the judgement call NOT to do a breathalizer was the ver officer who gave the ticket to the guy three weeks previous. SHE TOLD US THAT RIGHT AT THE POLICE STATION.

Dale and Betty, I don't know what a person should do we have been fighting with ourselves as to what should we do. BUT finally we decided we could not drop it, there is to many unanswered questions, and our son is gone and he should be here. He lived by the rules, why should this guy walk and maybe do the same thing to some other family down the road. NO, for us we had to do something. We have also decided that so many professionals have screwed up in this case that maybe it is time that someone started making people accountable, so if we start court proceedings it will be everyone along the way. I feel we have already lost so much, what else could happen to us??

Our family is falling apart daily, the pain is greater than anything I could have ever imagined. I also watch our two other sons growing more depressed each day, they feel crushed and broken.

I hope I haven't upset you more as that was not my intent, I just could not believe what is happening.

Take care and I wish you luck in finding some closure, I know how important that can be. Marksmom. (roxy)

[sarasmom]

I can't believe they let the kids take stuff out of an empounded car. They empounded the car Sara was killed in and when my husband wanted to take pictures of the car they sent a detective with him to make sure he didn't take anything out of the car. It sounds like very poor police work to me.

[ribitsmom]

I can't believe that it wasn't automatic that they do a breath test. If there is a fatality it should be automatic. In fact, if there are any serious injuries it should be automatic.

[mjsmom]

I haven't posted in a few, had a real bad beginning of the week.

Marksmom & Daleandbetty,

Your stories are similar in alot of ways to my son Michael's accident. Michael was driving along a trail beside the railroad bed to get his paycheck the day he died. A detail cop motioned for him to stop, knowing my son the way I do, the last thing he wanted to do was get in trouble. So he sped off to his destination which was close by. The first cop radioed a second. The second found Michael by the side of the rode. Quote."There were a crowd of approximately 6 people standing around the victim". When rescue got there the cop asked if anynone saw anything, they all send no and were let go with nothing further. No names and phone numbers taken, just took them at their word. In his report he specutlated and assumed what happened, and wrote it as fact. No neigbors were asking if they saw or heard anything. 6 months after Michael died I got a safety recall on brake failure. After we seemed like forever I had an expert inspect my son's 4wheeler. No malfunctions found, BUT BLUE PAINT was found, which could of been indicitive of a hit and run. On top of that, the state fish and game had the ATV post accident inspected by the place I bought it, had any maintenance and/or service done. Why would they write in a report anything was wrong mechanically with it just days after the accident, that would open them up for a law suit. So many people and angencies SCREWED up so bad, and I can't find anyone who cares. So my son is dead, there was no investigation done, and no one cares.

Now that I have had Michael's 2nd anniversary, I only have less than a year to find someone who gives a crap to help me. Statue of limitaions is 3 years. No pressure or anyting.

On top of that I am having family problems. And when I deal with them openly soon there will be a huge blow up. I just hope I can handle all this. To make matters worse, from Michael's anniversay 8/22 until 12/31 is my most difficult time of year. I am trying to hold it together, but it's getting harder and harder.

Sorry to babble on,

Marnie Michael John's mum forever

[Artina]

Roxy,

Your son sounds like he was a happy, smart, well liked, and creative young man. When I read your post I could feel your pride and his positive influence.

Peace to you, Tina