Loss of a Teenager

[hannahrosesmom]

As far as support groups I never would have made it this far without my Compassionate Friends group. I started going approx a month after Hannah died and have not mised a meeting since. I am very fortunate that my chaper (St Paul MN) meets twice a month. The people in this group have been incredibly open, warm and of course, supportive and extremely compassionate, qualities hard to find in the ouside world among civilians. I have learned so much about the grief experience and myself since going, talk about a comfort zone! Nowhere have I been able to share my pain, anger, and stories of life with my daughter before and after without judgement or that look like we need a straitjacket. I also like the boxes of Kleenex sitting about for the tears that flow. I have already made reservations for the Regional Conference in Door County WI in October which takes place a week after the 1 year anniversary of Hannah’s death. Could the timing be any better? I have struck up a wonderful friendship with the chapter leader. Our relationships with our daughters and our daughters themselves are so similar it’s scary, both our daughters were taken suddenly in a vehicle accident, were close age (hers 15 ½, mine 16), our thoughts, opinions, and beliefs are very similar on many subjects. She lost her daughter 10 years ago so I have learned volumes from her experience in this grief journey that I’ve just begun.

Energy is just another word in the dictionary under “E”. I figure I’m doing good to have clean clothes and dishes, a shower first thing in the morning is the only thing that brings me into full consciousness. The rest of the cleaning thing just doesn’t seem important and is on the bottom of the priority list. I do admire the people that have to stay busy and find it therapeutic. I do have spurts where I accomplish small things but the big projects will stay on hold. I lose interest quickly if it takes too much thought or time. On those occasions when I get one of those spurts, I find myself getting lost in my thoughts, talk about a scary place, until I’m in tears. From there it’s to the couch for a good cry until I’m exhausted. Has anyone noticed how exhausting grief can be? Does anyone else have that all day feeling of just being punched in the stomach? What about food, to me it all tastes the same no matter what it is…bland.

Hannah was a voracious reader, could not keep that girl in books and I should have bought stock in Barnes and Noble. She of course LOVED the Harry Potter books. The onslaught of advertising for the new one has been very painful to me. One day last week I could not get the thought of this book out of my head. I knew if she were still here it would’ve been pre-ordered and pre-paid and Hannah climbing out of her skin awaiting the release. Finally it hit me, or rather she did, to buy the book and read it to her. I know her spirit is still with me and that is why I couldn’t get it out of my mind. Her love of reading is still strong and it also gives me the opportunity to read to her again, something I haven’t been able to do since she was young. I don’t care what people think when they see me at the cemetery, or what my husband and son think when I’m sitting on her bed, reading it outloud to her in either location. Hannah will love it and so will I.

[marksmom]

Hi, All

I briefly stopped to read the posts and I thank Ashleysmom and Joshsmom for you reply's. I have also read the posts from Hannasmom and all the others. I think I keep coming back here to check to see if I am really feeling the way others do or NOT. YES, I can tell we are all in the same boat. I wish I could say something helpful to someone but I can't, I truthfully feel like I am falling apart quicker (sp)every day.

My family is doing the same, my husband and oldest son argue at each and every opportunity. Of course I get to be in the middle which makes things that much worse. My youngest son is just so sad and confused he has no idea what to do. He cannot sleep much at all, hasn't slept in his room since Mark died.

I have NO idea what to do, BUT I feel like running away and I have a strong desire to just join Mark. I miss him so badly my body aches.

I look at his picture and feel like I am having a heart attack. I keep thinking maybe if we could get some closure to this mess maybe that would help. BUT who really cares, the police are taking there sweet time about things. In the last 10weeks they have likely spent 30minutes on our sons case. THey cannot even find the jerk who hit him. I am also growing very angry at Mark's friends and I don't want to BUT a couple of them were there why are they not telling us the truth. Why do they tell us one thing and then the investigators another??

If they loved Mark like we did then they would know that he told us everything good and bad and he would want us to know what all happened that night. Why are they protecting this guy, or is that what happened. I don't know anymore I am so confused. I hate this guy as he should not have drank maybe then he would not have hit Mark. My Mark never drank and drove anything ever.

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY, that is all I have on my mind.

I really feel that I must have done something wrong, our whole life we have been over protective in many ways our kids are good kids, so what happened!!

I so badly would like to just go to sleep forever and never have to feel this stuff again.

Talk to you again soon, Roxy.

[griffinsmom]

MarksMom, who seems to be very frustrated...

This is the second time I wrote this post....lost it the first time-

In short- I have found the anger, revenge, having expectations of punishment- all problematic in my healing process. Equally destructive are negative people and Griffins "natural father"....so I have chosen to spend what little energy I have doing things to honor and share Griffins life. We have bricks at the park, a plaque on the dock at the park, a tree in the yard, bricks painted by friends around the tree, a scholarship at his school, a butterfly garden in the yard, a star in the Big Dipper, a xanga page is just getting started, websites or pages in different places (see links), I go to Compassionate Friends meetings 2x/mo, I visit the Compassionate friends chat,healing hearts sends a monthly newsletter, I have been to a medium, a John Edward "performance"....I guess my point is, I had to let go of quite a bit on this journey. The most important thing is the loss of your child, your grief process and keeping his/her memory alive. At least thats how I show love to my son. He was killed in a car accident instantly 6 months ago, New Years Day-2005. My life is over as I knew it, too. My sorrow and grief run deep- and thats fine. But the anger and frustration with others and situations I cannot control- forget it, I've had to let it go...it was killing me, and sapping my energy to do loving, productive things that my son would like.

Here are some links (net addresses)

yourstar.com

http://www.beyondindigo.com/memorials/memorials.php/dID/642c7d993a618c

www.xanga.com/griffinsmom

http://www.griefnet.org/memorials/2005c/jul16-5199627039.html

https://griffin-schwartz.memory-of.com/about.aspx

I hope you and anyone who needs it can find something here to help you/them along. Good luck on your journey.

[eriksmomforever]

Advice from anyone that wants to answer please..

When we are in a situation were someone asks us if we have any kids, or if we are introducing ourselves and telling someone new about oursevles what do we say about Erik, since he was my only child?

Do we say "Yes we do have a son but he was killed" do we say "We had a son but he died" i don't know the best way to handle this. We have ran into it already and i just sat there staring at the lady, i froze, it was sad. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

Mandy

[missingchris]

Mandy,

We were at a family reunion this weekend and dealt with this question, it seemed, a hundred times. Our reply was we have 2 sons, one 6 yrs old, and a 17 yr old son who died last year. It took some aback, but most handled our answer ok. I think if i had been you my reply would be " We are proud parents of a son whom we sadly lost in an accident this year. " That question is so hard. But I need to acknowledge Chris's existence, and I also have to for our 6 yr old's sake. The thought of your loss stuns me. We're not far enough along in this to be able to tell you it gets better. Some of the other parents here will have to help with that. All I know is this hurts, every minute of every day. And I'm sorry for us all.

Chris's Mom

[danielsmom]

Mandy, I had this question asked to me for the first time since Daniel died just the other day. I answered that I had a 25 year old daughter and a 19 year old son who died in April. It was the first time that I told someone that Daniel had died,up until this point everybody I had come in contact with already knew. It was the hardest thing I ever had to say. I agree with Chris's Mom on what your answer shoud be.We need to let people know that our children were here on this earth and live in our hearts forever.I know that my life will never be the same and that the hurt will never go away. Wendy

[ashleysmom]

Mandy,

I have had this question asked of me many times. I always tell people I have two children. Sometimes I am able to leave it at that, sometimes they push and ask ages and sexes. I also give that, Ashley will forever be 18 to me. If people still ask questions, then inevitably I have to tell them that Ashley died. Sometimes it gets awkward for the other person, but I figure if they kept questioning, then they wanted the answers. Most of the time at that point I have teared up, but I can't help it, each time I have to say that Ashley has died, it makes it more real, which I hate!

Peace to you,

Dottie

[kirksdad]

It is important not only to us, but to the memory of our children to be able to tell people about them. When people ask we should not feel that feeling of dread, but we do, it is natural because of the way society views the pain of a parent that has lost a child. Telling others that we have children, even though one of them have passed, is not a bad thing. It is a statement to the life of our child and how they are still ours even though they are gone from our sight and touch. One has to do what is comfortable for them, but we should never feel like talking about a child that has died is a bad thing, it isn't.

[eriksmomforever]

Thanks to all of you that responded. There was no way i was going to act like Erik never exsisted, but yet didn't now how to handle it sometimes. Thanks again and god bless.

Mandy

[julsmom]

I usually post on Lost of Adult child but went to this site today. I'm glad I did. Later this summer I know I will be a position where I will be asked about my children. I dread answering. It is such an awful thing to say, but reading everyone's reply has soothed me somewhat. Peace to all. Lynda

[griffinsmom]

I just say I have an 18 yr old son. If they continue to press the issue, I tell them.

I have a personal question to put to the group....maybe this should be a whole 'nother forum.....

Is anyone finding that being intimate with your mate is rather difficult given the recent loss? My husband, who is not Griffins natural father and only knew him for maybe 3 years, does not seem to understand my inability to be close to anyone right now. I use all my close energy for the baby- who needs to be showered in my love. Its not that I dont love him, I just am not interested in ...sex right now. Just being real. Any comments on this?

[trubeliever]

[quote

Is anyone finding that being intimate with your mate is rather difficult given the recent loss? My husband, who is not Griffins natural father and only knew him for maybe 3 years, does not seem to understand my inability to be close to anyone right now. I use all my close energy for the baby- QUOTE]

griffinsmom,

I just want to let you know that sometimes we have normal emotions that affect our lives and after the tragic loss we have experienced we cannot tell the difference. If you have a baby in the home, you can feel less attached to your mate and this can be due to many other things. I can only tell you it is best to love each other as much as possible. It doesn’t need to be sexual. When my son was ill we had less time for each other, similar to when we had babies in our lives. Now we only have each other. It is just as difficult of a transition for me but not so for my mate. You have a lot more to deal with than I do on a daily basis. It is always good to set aside time for each other when you have small children. Try to enjoy something you do each day with your mate and you may start to feel differently. Like, coffee in the morning, or after you get the baby to bed. There is no easy part of life after this kind of loss. I am in no way experienced at this, it has been 9 months, 3 weeks, and 4 days since I lost my baby (he was 13). But I definitely know what you are talking about.

4-ever Brian’s mom (1991-2004)

[titoyginasmom]

Is anyone finding that being intimate with your mate is rather difficult given the recent loss?

Randi,

Perhaps you should look on this as a similar situation as when your child was first born. What I mean is each of us mothers want to spend all of our energy on our new baby, so there is very little left for the "special" feelings for our mates. In time of course things do work out. I believe they will in your case as well. Try feeding Gianna and putting her to bed a little early, then have dinner with your hubby. No that isn't sexual..but it IS quality time with him that he will appreciate. It took almost nine months for me to be able to even sleep next to my husband! Looking back I wonder if a part of me blamed him for not grieving the SAME way I was. Yes, I know in my head that no two people grieve the same...but my heart wasn't listening. So we began going out once a week (even just to McDonald's) by ourselves to talk about adult things. It helped a lot since I could hear and see his grief then. Things he was afraid to let our children see. I hope this helps.

Kathie......forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[titoyginasmom]

My youngest son is just so sad and confused he has no idea what to do. He cannot sleep much at all, hasn't slept in his room since Mark died.

Talk to you again soon, Roxy.

Roxy,

After my children died, my remaining daughter didn't sleep in her own room for nearly six months. She slept on a sleeping bag in my oldest son's bedroom. Even though I cleaned his room out, packed his stuff up, and made the room into a child's den...she felt closer to him there. My remaining son did the same thing in Gina's room! When asked they would tell me it made them feel better to sleep where their siblings had slept for so very long. My son even went so far as to take Gina's cremains into the room one night. I asked a counselor about it. I was told very clearly that unless the are NOT sleeping, or unless they suffer from "night terrors" not to worry as they would eventually move back to their rooms. They did. I hope this helps some.

Kathie.......forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[marksmom]

Hi All,

Kathie thanks for the advice I did not realize you had two other children as well. I am so worried about both my boys as neither one is really handling this well, mind you I did not expect that they would. My youngest boy is 12 and was very attached to Mark they did so many things together that I know he feels totally lost. The sleeping thing does really bother me as he sleeps beside my husbands and my bed he even holds my hand until he falls asleep. He told me one morning that he is scared one of us will die through the night? My husband recently had to spray a field (were farmers) and he was so scared that he would die thats all he talked about, he said just think mom dad could die out there like a farmer did last year and it would all be for a good crop. Wouldn't that be awful mom? I thought what is going on with him, he is constantly thinking about us all dying and then at times he will say things like I wish we had all died the day Mark did or maybe we could drive our car off a bridge. He even said it would have been better if the three boys died together then my husband and I could committ suicide and join them, he said then we could all be together, LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO!

See why I am worried, then my oldest son said last night that he just cannot take it anymore he wants to just jump off a cliff, he says it should have been him anyway. The truth is my oldest son is only 10months older than Mark was, and they were close until the past two years when they fought alot like brothers. This is even harder to say about a year and a half ago our oldest son said he is gay, and we have all been struggling with that news. I might add my son is not very happy about it all though he said he has felt something different his whole life. It is so hard as he says he is the one with the screwed up life so it should have been him. Mark was your average boy who had really high morals and ethics and a hard worker, he got along with everyone. Where my oldest boy gets along with adults but has had a hard time at school throughout the last 5 yrs. First he was teased about being adopted then as he got older he just didn't seem to fit well with others so they would ridcule him and yes he has been called gay for years. The wierd part is he said he was called it long before he ever thought about it. Sometimes I wonder wether if you hear somthing long enough you believe it. At any rate he is a wonderful son also and I am so scared that I am going to lose either of our boys.

Also my oldest son and my husband seem to fight constantly this past while and I am getting to the point I can't take it. Its like they are taking all there anger and pain about Marks death and pitching it at each other. Of course when they fight the youngest boy just gets so upset.

I don't know I guess I am babbling again. I read all the posts as this seems to be the only place I can run to right now. I even told my husband and family that I felt I need to take August off just for me and do my thing, but its like knowone hears me!!

My husband and I decided yesterday to hire a private eye as well as a lawyer, because the police, investigators and enginers have all screwed this case up so badly it is unbelieveable. I am so angry I could punch someone!! Our son is laying six feet down and this guy who hit him is out doing his thing, my husbands brother saw this guy out at the quading hill. Not to mention we are so tired of hearing different stories. YOU know I am not even sure anymore that our son was in a quading accident, when you look at the facts they do not add up at all. (long story) Is anyone else consumed by getting answers, I can't seem to focus on anything but the accident or was it??

I value your thought so give it to me, also my grief councellor just called and said maybe we should go to compasionate friends ?? in the city it is far away but then again we do need help, what is everyone elses experience.

Talk to you again soon, marksmomforever (ROXY)

[marksmom]

Hi,

The question asked about intimacy with your spouse caught my attention also and I would agree that this like any other new stress in our life will likely cause changes to the intimacy we share with our spouse.

What I am about to say will likely not come out sounding very good but I will try to say it appropriately (which lately I seem to have a problem with). The night of our sons accident we were at the hospital for 30hours it was so emotionally draining as I am sure most of you know. At the time I thought that day was the worst to live through when actually now I think NOW is the worst as I know this is a nightmare that I cannot wake from. We had a long ride home and when we got there all of us tried to sleep in one room, however sleep did not come that night nor has it returned to normal now. The following day my husband and I had gone to lay down for awhile and for some reason I am still not sure of we were very close it seemed like we just needed to be together. Since that night I have been feeling very guilty thinking we had not even buried our son and we were together. I still cannnot figure it out, I even told my husband how I felt and he had no answer either. Since then I thought about it alot and I think our actions were likely out of desperation to make things normal or maybe we were thinking we would awake to our regular life?? I don't know? SInce then though my thoughts are totally on our tragedy and my grief and I could likely not be intimate at all, my husband though feels like we are being supportive to each other through being intimate so I am trying to compromise as I am told each of us will go through this process differently.

I think likely the key would be to discuss how you feel with your spouse and try and understand each other. I am sure we all have enough stress on our relationships just dealing with this that we do not need to add extra problems. As long as both of you agree with how to handle your intimacy it is likely all will work out.As for my guilt about my situation, I really do not know the why about it maybe some day I can figure it out along with all the rest of our actions and feelings through this journey. By Roxy.

[marksmom]

OPPS! I have another question for you all??

Every time I am talking with someone that has worked through this kind of loss or am talking to a grief councellor they call this a journey or a process.

I don't know about anyone else but I even find my self using the same terms at times and it drives me crazy. What does a person call what we are going through?? I think a journey sounds like something you want to do and a process is something you are working on. WHAT to heck, do you call what we are doing??

I said the other day to my mom and sister to me right now all I am doing is fighting to keep my family going and trying to keep myself from jumping in and joining my son. Each day is a challenge for me NOT to go to him. I really say I have no idea what my life will look like a year from now as right now I have no idea what will happen next.

I think this is so wierd in one moment our whole life is changed. I had a realitively NORMAL family, we have always been very close with our kids they have always been able to talk with us about anything. I really don't think there is much I do not know about my kids or vise versa. Yes, we have had some problems through the years. BUT for the most part we are just regular hard working people who believe in living life to the best of your ability. Treat all people with respect and dignity and in turn you will be rewarded with a positive life..............NOW my son and husband argue ALOT, we cry all the time, we never ever used to talk about dying now it is a daily subject. AND suicide none of us ever mentioned it now I have heard all of us say this is just to hard I don't want to go through this etc.

SO, what is a good way to describe what we are doing or going through?? Bye ROXY (marksmomforever)

[eriksmomforever]

Every time I am talking with someone that has worked through this kind of loss or am talking to a grief councellor they call this a journey or a process.

I don't know about anyone else but I even find my self using the same terms at times and it drives me crazy. What does a person call what we are going through?? I think a journey sounds like something you want to do and a process is something you are working on. WHAT to heck, do you call what we are doing??

ROXY (marksmomforever)

We are surviving, and trying to find a "new normal." I think we are all in survival mode most of the time. I don't even know what i'm running on most days.

Mandy

[marksmom]

Hi,Mandy

Thanks for the reply, and I guess that is what we are doing just surviving. Sometimes I think this is all about wether we make it or not, truthfully so many days I just wish I won't wake up. THe pain is to great. I was just thinking you know how some things just are and we have no answers for it well why couldn't there be something that does not allow children to die. EVER.

Yeah, I know what a statement. But I truly mean it the pain of losing a child is more than anyone should ever have to bare. If this is supposed to be a lesson it is one heck of a lesson. To me this is just way to much for anyone.

I keep thinking there must be a way around this, or can't I change this.....then I just start crying thinking if I was only there maybe I could have changed the outcome!! Or if I had just never helped him buy a quad or never let him leave the yard with it. I don't know anymore about anything, what a concept. I used to think I was in control of my destiny, what a joke that is.

I am though just survivig for the time being, looking for that "new normal". Take care Roxy. momsmarkforever

[hannahrosesmom]

I looked up journey in the dictionary and it says “a travelling from one place to another.” I call it a grief journey because I’m going from one place,life with Hannah, to another, life without Hannah, or as I’ve been known to say from life on earth to hell on earth, which is what life is for me now.

I’d like for Roxy and others to know that feelings of suicide are normal for grieving families. We’ve touched upon this subject many times at my Compassionate Friends meetings. It was a relief for me to hear that because believe, I have and still do at times contemplate it although I know I would never do it. My son and my little sister are what stop me because I could never put them through more pain like this. I also feel/know that Hannah would be very unhappy with me for giving up my life on purpose, especially considering the way she put so much “living” into her short life. It’s a huge struggle but I try to live my life as a tribute to her. I admired her spirit so much, what an incredible life force she had, the way she found humor in every little thing wow she loved to laugh, and the passion she had for the people and animals she loved. Killing myself would be a slap in the face to her. Some days I am not able to do that, I have to allow myself to succumb to my pain and grief and allow myself cry days. Our group leader at our CF meetings calls them grief storms and can’t think of a better term for them. They come on dark and violent but eventually pass washing away miniscule particles of pain. I’m learning very slowly but surely that from these storms grow tiny glimmers of hope that I just might, some time in the future, feel the pain soften. I am 9 months and 7 days into this journey and have learned not to force any emotion on myself that I am not ready for. I have learned that forcing myself to have a “good” day usually backfires. I spend a lot of my time alone when not at work which gives me much time to contemplate a lot of what I’m feeling. I have also read “Hello from Heaven” and a couple books by John Edward. They have been a tremendous source of comfort for me. I have no doubt that my Hannah is with me always, maybe not in the form I prefer, but will take what I can get. The new Harry Potter book arrived and started reading it to her. Feels strange sitting in my bed reading aloud, but have feel her presence when I do so I’ll continue to read on.

The intimacy thing is not happpening at my house, I just feel so dead, for lack of a better term, in that dept. My husband lost his job after Hannah died. He was unable to continue traveling and was going to look for a job that didn’t require travel. The man can fix ANYTHING! It has been nine months and has not actively looked for and shows no desire to find a job. He spends most of his time sleeping, riding his motorcycle, and disappears for days (the longest so far has been a week) without calling, leaving me home alone to worry and wonder if or when he’s coming home. He doesn’t feel nor understand why I get upset when he does this. He doesn’t fix anything that needs fixing or help with housework in any form although he does cook and eat while I’m at work and leaves great messes for me. One can only assume that he thinks I want to come home from work and clean up after him when all he’s done all day is lie on the couch. Yeah, that’s a turn on eh? He’s even had the nerve to try and make me feel bad for not having sex with him. After discussing a job possibility earlier this week he announced that he couldn’t possibly start a new job until the middle of next month because he’s going to the motorcycle rally in Sturgis!!! This was the first I’ve heard of it and am absolutely livid. We don’t have much money so I started personal accts and moved some into those. There is no way my paychecks are going towards financing that trip. I’m sure you’re thinking “tell him NO WAY”. Wouldn’t matter, he’s got no job obligations and would just leave while I’m at work. Pretty cold hearted to my way of thinking. And yes I have tried to throw him out, he doesn’t come home much anyway, but refuses to leave. He’ll stay home a few days to make life miserable then starts the crap all over again. What a way to honor his daughters’ memory.

Ok I’m rambling too so will sign off. To all of you with access to a Compassionate Friends group, give it a shot, actually give it a few. The comfort and peace you get from going to these meetings, not to mention the knowledge from their experience, is invaluable. Peace to you all

[titoyginasmom]

I rather liked the phrase "grief journey." I believe it fits in so many ways. We are 9 months and 22 days into our journey. I wish I could offer a magic solution for us all...a way to assuage out grief, but I don't. I am dreading tomorrow, not even sure I want to wake up tomorrow. See, tomorrow would have been Tito's 19 birthday. I have found myself remembering all day the joy I felt when he was born at 7:16 am EDT on that Wednesday morning. The wonder of seeing his tiny fingers and toes, seeing his big brown eyes try to focus, and hearing his tiny cry. Then each year's birthday memories. How he looked so excited to see his cake and presents. Last year he was away at boot camp for the US Army for his birthday, but I was at least able to speak to him. This year just leaves me feeling hollow, like a partial person..sort of just going through the movements of life.

My husband, and two remaining children will be taking balloons out for him. We even made a cake. Sounds crazy I know, but I believe he will know we are there and thinking of him.

On another note, I have been rather abset the last week since my only remaining grandparent passed away on July 14th. This past Monday I attended his funeral. He, like my son and father, was in the Army. My poor mother was devestated! She has lost two grandchildren, and her father in less than ten months. I felt so bad for her, but knew from my own experiance that there was nothing to really say. I did make her eat, and groom herself while I was there. Now it is up to my brother to watch over her for the next few weeks until she gains the strength to do so on her own.

Since I seem to be babbling I will close for now.

Kathie.....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[danielsmom]

Kathie, My thoughts will be with you tomorrow. I understand about the cake,as I have thought about making a cake for Daniel's birthday.My condolences on the death of your Grandfather. Take care of yourself

Wendy

[griffinsmom]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TITO!

[Artina]

Just a quick note to awknowledge Tito's 19th birthday. We too have a cake for my son's birthday- he is gone, but not forgotten! My heart is with you and your family. I am also sorry to hear about your grandfather...

Peace to you, Tina

[titoyginasmom]

Thank you both Tina and Randi for helping me and the family celebrate Tito's birthday. We took balloons out, we had the cake, we watched some movies, and even shot off some silly string. That one was special between the kids. **grin** See a few years back Krystal woke Tito up at the exact time he was born by shooting some silly string at him while shouting "Happy Birthday" at him. We also all sang Happy Birthday to him. This might sound a little strange, but it was the very FIRST time we have done anything like this as a family...and it felt very healing! I mean we each do things but this time we all did something together.

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[Artina]

Kathie,

I am happy to hear that it was a healing experience. We do the best we can to make those special days the best they can be in the shadow of our pain. I'm sure Tito felt all of your love and energy.

Peace to you, Tina

[sarasmom]

Hello

My first post here. I lost my 16 year old daughter Sara on Memorial Day this year in a car accident. Her friend was driving her home and he was speeding and lost control of his car and hit a pole on Sara's side. She died on impact. My life will never be the same. I need some kind of sign from her to let me know she is ok. Do any of you feel the same way?

[titoyginasmom]

Hello

My first post here. I lost my 16 year old daughter Sara on Memorial Day this year in a car accident. Her friend was driving her home and he was speeding and lost control of his car and hit a pole on Sara's side. She died on impact. My life will never be the same. I need some kind of sign from her to let me know she is ok. Do any of you feel the same way?

Sarasmom,

I am so very sorry for your loss. When my two oldest children died in a car wreck last October, I thought my world had ended with them. Slowly I am learning to live without them. It IS a struggle not to just give up, to just go to them. As for a "sign" from Sara...all I can tell you is to look around you with an open mind and an open heart. I have seen many many signs from my children. Some that others have seen and heard, some that no one else has. **shrug** It is possible that it is what I WANT to see, but I choose to believe that my Tito and Gina are trying to contact me in the only way they can now.

God Bless you...

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[griffinsmom]

Sarasmom-

My son was riding with a friend who was speeding and smashed Griffins side into a tree- 01/01/05. He died on impact,too. I have done alot of reading....George Anderson, James Van Praagh,...it has helped. I also went to a medium, and a John Edward seminar....I get signs all the time, they are very subtle, and you have to be open to them when they happen. If you visit Griffins website, read- letter to my mother, Coincidence?, and the latest story about his sister, 8 month old Gianna. You can cut and paste into your browser.

https://griffin-schwartz.memory-of.com/about.aspx

Very sorry about Sara....and Griffin, and all the kids, and their loved ones. Peace

[hannahrosesmom]

sarasmom, I lost my precious Hannah last October under similar circumstances. Right now, so soon after losing her, your pain is so all-consuming that it's preventing you from seeing the signs. Get a copy of "Hello from Heaven" by Bill and Judy Guggenheim, it's all about after death communications from the most subtle to the most obvious. Also try "After Life" by John Edwards, you'll know then that your Sara is always with you, not in the form you or any of us prefer, but she is with you always. Peace to you,

HannahRosesMom

[marksmom]

Hi to all, I just wanted to say to sarasmom I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter from my experience though I know of nothing that will make you feel better. I lost my son 4months and 12days ago and I have found nothing to ease my pain. I have though found that coming to this site and talking with others about my pain and feelings has somehow made me feel like I am less crazy?? I don't know if that sounds right but sometimes lately the things I feel or think really do sound crazy to me.

All I can do is say I am sorry that you have had to join this group of parents as I truly wouldn't wish this on anyone. Your in my thoughts, Roxy.

[marksmom]

Hello Kathie, Congratulations on your sons birthday! I say congratulations as I believe we all should celebrate the day we were blessed with our children as they are such a precious gift. I would also say congratulations with making it through this very tough day, our son would have been 17 on the 16th of August and truthfully I have no idea how I will get through it. It seems like as each day passes my pain grows as it has been so long since I hugged or kissed him or heard his big laugh. Since he has gone our family seems so empty even if we laugh or smile it is only on the outside as inside we are a mess. We seem to be ripping each other apart a little more each day.........

Happy Birthday to your Tito! love roxy

[kirksdad]

Sarahsmom, I am so sorry for your loss. Our son died in a car wreck 5 years ago and here as we come upon that fifth anniversary things are a little hard. Hell, who am I kidding, they are really hard. I can't say that things haven't improved in those 5 years, but things come slowly, in our own time. This is a good place to talk.

[Artina]

Jim,

You are so right... there are those days that feel like we took one great big step backwards. Please know that I am thinking about your family as you approach Kirk's angel date.

Peace to you, Tina

[Artina]

Sarah's mom,

I am so sorry for your loss. It is so scary when the veil off life is revealed and we no longer have the rosey glasses to see the world we once knew. We struggle from so many variables after the loss of our children. I dove deep into researching "life after death" because I felt- deep within my soul- that my son's energy still lived. We have had a reading by John Edward, Robert Brown, and Lorreta Chaney, who have all shared information with us that nobody... nobody... other than our son, could ever know. We constantly get hello's from our son in the form of his football number (#42) and his favorite color (orange). Every time those two things appear to us- we say hello to Chris. Let me tell you what, nobody would ever win a bet, trying to guess where the #42, or the color orange, will reveal themselves. It's not a coincidence!!! Trust me.

Take one day at a time and be sure to eat, drink, sleep and journal (your feelings or letter's to your daughter). Some how, some day... you will feel a little better and you will learn to live life again with the pain that you carry in your heart. I never thought I would ever smile again or feel excited about anything- but that has changed. It has been three and a half years since my son died in a snowmobile accident- he was just 19.

Peace to you, Tina

[marksmom]

Hello Everyone,

Tonight I had a very long talk to my son Mark and I asked him to help me, as I need so badly to know if he is okay that there is something more than this.

I know many of you have had sure signs and believe your children are okay on the other side, I am so happy for you as right now I know I need that more than anything else. I thought maybe if I let Mark know what all is going on in my head maybe somehow he can help me.

I hate being so negative but I feel like I am in a pit of quicksand and I am sinking fast. Our family is in such a mess, instead of being extremely close during this time of grief my sons and husband argue and fight more than they ever did. Has this happened to anyone else? Truthfully we were never a perfect family but we were close, we could always talk with each other about anything, I felt I knew our boys more than most people ever get to know there children. And for us our family took priority over everything else. We had a difficult time having children, it took us ten years, thats all we ever wanted.

Now I am suffering with the horrible death of our middle son and its like the day he died a part of us all went with him. I am slowly watching my family sink out of sight, I hear them say cruel things to each other that I have never ever heard them say.

Does anyone have any insight into this, I feel like I am in the middle of the battle zone. Maybe it is because they are all MALE and don't know what to do with there feelings, I don't know. I am open to any advice or ideas if you have any as this is killing me. I want to focus on making sure Mark is okay and following his investigation to the end. I want space and time to deal with this pain, BUT it seems my family has a totally different agenda. I really thought tonight about running away from home, now isn;t that crazy.

I used to be a person who had a very regular life, a good family a very rewarding career and now I am watching it all pass away before me and it seems like I cannot contol anything.

SOrry for venting I know none of us are in great shape and we all are dealing with so much grief, its just I feel like this is the only place I can really say how I am feeling. THanks for listening, Roxy.(marksmomforever)

[marksmom]

Just a question, How do you get an appointment with some of the famous mediums mentioned? How expensive is it and where do you go? I would appreciate any information, thanks roxy.

[titoyginasmom]

Roxy,

The only real advice per se that I can offer would be to throw a mini temper tantrum. I know that sounds silly, but maybe it would wake your fellas up. If they are so busy fighting with each other, and having YOU settle their arguements...when do YOU get to grieve? Try getting some poster board and going on stike. **grin** My bet is that with a few well chosen phrases about the "unfair conditions" in your home, they will get the idea. Just be clever about it so you don't hurt their already fragile feelings. Another idea would be to take the weekend off. I mean just go to a motel for the weekend. Soak in a hot tub, take long showers, sleep, read, swim, etc. Normally Motel 6 is rather inexpensive. Call it your "Mark and Mom Time" and remind them that while you love them all, they are just too noisy to come along. Perhaps next time. I actually did that to my family once! You should have seen the strange looks. **giggles** I must say it worked. After that everyone was much more willing to at least try to talk, they still fight, but they try more.

Kathie...forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[danielsmom]

Sarah's Mom

I am so very sorry for your loss. My son died in a car accident 3 months and 9 days ago.Everyday is a struggle.I do get signs from Daniel,other people may say they aren't signs, but I know in my heart Daniel is letting me know he is still with us.Take care of yourself

Wendy

[sarasmom]

There is a lot of anger going on in my home too. My husband is just so angry. He has even said he would like to stalk the boy who was driving and killed our Sara just so he doesn't forget. He wants to file a cival suit against this kids parents. No amount of money is going to bring our daughter back and it would be like blood money to me.

[marksmom]

Hi Everyone, hope you all have a OKAY day as I call it.

Kathie, thanks for the advice I think I will try the hotel thing it just might work. Yesterday I told them all I am thinking of moving out so they can fight in peace as I cannot take it anymore (kinda had a mini tantrum as you put it) I did get some momentarily attention but it quickly passed and they were back to normal.

My big thing is I love them all but they are killing me more, losing Mark is the worst thing that has ever happened to any of us I just wish we would move closer together instead of further apart. THe things they say to each other are not easily forgiven, I hope I can get them to think about the results of this fighting soon.

I am not sure what miracle happened but today I have an appointment with the grief councellor which usually my husband drives me to and stays but he says it is for me. However the other day I said we all need to go and I got groans and moans like I don't need a councellor I need my brother or I don't go for that crap so to speak. THen today as I was preparing to leave for the city I heard my husband say to one of his customers he would not be available today as he had to go to the city with his boys and me!! I almost fell off my chiar maybe my temper tantrum yesterday had something to do with it, either that or they decided to come with me so they can have me committed (grin). I guess I will take them coming for whatever reason, hopefully its because they are as unhappy as I am?? Lets hope something good will come of it.Take care bye Roxy.

[Artina]

We have to be very careful with anger while we are grieving, because anger can become an emotional addiction that distracts us from our pain. It is much easier to be MAD… than sad. I'm not saying that we won't have fleeting moments of anger- but we should never allow that anger to be used on those that we love. When anger moves from inside us, to outside us, where it is "used" on others as a relief from our pain, than we have a problem. I know that we are all mad about our loss, but that doesn’t give us a ticket to use it on our family, or allow them to use it on us.

In my first year of grief, I discovered just how powerful anger was as an emotional distraction. It really was easier for me to find something to get angry about, than to sit, think, and feel. I found myself being angry a lot. Once I discovered what I was doing, I was able to correct my behavior and deal with my grief in a positive way, while preserving my family.

Now I use anger as a resource, because anger is usually my cue that I am avoiding something emotional. When I start to feel angry about something “silly”, I take a time out and journal, walk, or meditate. I give anger a second look now... Address anger in your family, so that everybody is armed with the facts about anger.

Peace to you, Tina

[titoyginasmom]

I have a problem that I would really like some advice or feed back on please. I have been having some terrible nightmares lately. I know that part of it is normal since I lost my two children, one of their friends, my husband's friend, both of my grandparents, and my beloved pet all in just over 9 months. However it has gotten to the point where I don't WANT to even try to sleep. Some of the nightmares are truly awful. I spoke to my counselor and he prescribed a mild sleep aid. It works somewhat, but I don't like feeling groggy...also I am concerned about addiction to it. Anyone have some advice?

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[eriksmomforever]

I have a problem that I would really like some advice or feed back on please. I have been having some terrible nightmares lately. I know that part of it is normal since I lost my two children, one of their friends, my husband's friend, both of my grandparents, and my beloved pet all in just over 9 months. However it has gotten to the point where I don't WANT to even try to sleep. Some of the nightmares are truly awful. I spoke to my counselor and he prescribed a mild sleep aid. It works somewhat, but I don't like feeling groggy...also I am concerned about addiction to it. Anyone have some advice?

Kathie....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! I was going to post the same thing when i got around to it. I started having nightmares last week, and they are horrible and i too don't want to go to bed now, i'm so tired. I woke up screaming 2 nights ago, because one of my dreams was Erik walked through the back door with his letter jacket (always wore that) and ran up and hugged me and told me he was alive and couldn't tell me why he had to pretend he was dead, and i was bawling obviously, and then went off to go hang out with his friends, and the doorbell rang later that night, and when i went to answer it, the whole house was dark, and it was pitch black outside and there was a black figure stanging at my door, that's all i could see and they told me he was dead again, and i woke up screaming. They are horrible dreams and i do NOT want to start havinvg these on a regular basis. I too would appreciate help on this. Can you get sleep during the day? I have a hard time doing that. Hope you are feeling ok today.......hugs.

[tinasdad]

Tina, anger is a natural part of grieving, and you are so right, that we need to be careful to not let it take control. My cousin let it consume her after her son was killed, and it became so bad for her,the autopsy report indicated it to be one of the contributing factors of her death. Anger has its place, but needs to stay there.

Eriksmomforever and Titoyginasmom, dreams are a way for our minds, our souls, to make sense of things. They often do it in bizarre ways that make our conscious minds very uncomfortable, even afraid. On a short term over a month or two, you don't need to worry about addiction to a sleeping pill. Just being concerned about it tells me you won't become addicted. If you need to sleep with the lights on, or in the day, do it. I've heard of some parents, even fathers, who have teddy bears since the death of their child. Mark

Stacey, Dad loves you.

[titoyginasmom]

Eriksmomforever I am so sorry to find out that you suffer from these nightmares also. I have trouble sleeping during the day also, as a matter of fact I now have trouble sleeping in my room at all. The really bizarre thing is that the last "good" night's sleep I had was while at my Grandfather's funeral! Perhaps it was exahaustion, I don't know, but I forgot to take my pill and slept for 9 hours straight. That is a record for me these days.

Tinasdad (Mark), thank you so much for your comments. I have two teddybears actually. One my son gave me for my birthday, one was Gina's. Both sit on my headboard where I can touch them while I sleep. I also have a heart shaped container (looks like a locket) that holds some of their cremains that I never ever take off...except to shower. The thing cost me the earth, but the comfort it brings is worth it!!

Kathie.....forever Tito y Gina's Mom

[sarasmom]

I don't seem to dream at all. Nothing..

I wear Sara's class ring around my neck at all times. She was wearing it the night she died and the police that came gave it to me.

[begalli]

Heartfelt greetings to all. I have been reading this board for about a week. My nephew, 16 years old, was killed in an orv accident just 26 days ago. I don\'t have to tell you that this has paralyzed my brother and sister in-law, who I love dearly. I have a 16 year old son, born just 5 months after my nephew. They\'ve been buddies since birth. I consider my brother and his wife to be my best friends as well as my very closest family members.

Everyone is still in a state of shock and disbelief including my brother\'s younger, 13 year old son who had a very special relationship with his big brother.

The reason I\'m posting to this board is to ask if anyone knows of a good book related to grieving the loss of a child that I can get for my sister in-law? This site is very helpful but she\'s not really one to interact online. I\'m not necessarily looking for anything with a religious tone or issues relating to life after death, but something similar to what you all are posting here...personal, deeply felt feelings and realities of those who have experienced this tragic loss of a dear sweet child.

I contacted the local Compassionate Friends chapter and had a beautiful conversation with a lovely woman there. My sister in-law contacted the same woman a few days later and had a conversation for an hour and a half. Thank goodness for TCF! The group meeting isn\'t until the third week in August though. I would like to offer my sister in-law something in the meantime to help with some of her empty hours.

Do you think that\'s okay?

My heart and my gut just aches so deeply for my brother and his family. I just want to help.

Thanks for any suggestions. And thanks for being here.

[ashleysmom]

Roxy,

I too watched as my family seemed to fall apart around me. My husband was so consumed in his grief, he had nothing left for us. My daughter just didn't come home. I never knew where she was or what she was doing and all I could think about was getting another phone call from hell. I remember 4months being a terrible time. The all consuming haze had lifted a little and the pain was overwhelming. It has been a year and 24 days and I can tell you that my family is closer now. They went away to Curasou on Jan. 1st and it was the best thing that has happened since 7-4-04. I think they needed to be away from everything. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that there is hope. The fact that they are willing to go to a councilor is a good thing as well. Be easy on yourself right now. I hope peace comes soon, Dottie

[titoyginasmom]

Begalli,

I am so very sorry for your family's loss. There is a woman named Rosemary Smith that wrote a book called Children Of The Dome. It is awesome! She also has a website. It is childrenofthedome.com I think. Some sweet soul contacted Rosemary after my two children passed away, and she sent me a copy. I have now read it several times! The local book store will also have books in their "grief" section. The best thing that has worked for me though, was to start an ongoing project. My kids died in a car wreck, so I created a memorial spot for them. Sort of like you would at a cemetary. I planted shrubs, flowers, roses, etc. Then I decorated it with things that my children loved in life. I something similar in my yard. I planted rose buses, put up windchimes, placed their joint memorial (head) stone, and a few of their special items there. I also got a yard swing so I have a place to sit and "visit" with my kids. I decorate both areas for the holidays. Example at Christmas I took out a tiny Christmas tree, and small empty wrapped boxes. At Easter I placed colored eggs, and a small stuffed Easter rabbit out. See what I mean? It is an on going project that can and does keep you busy. If she is a craftsy type person have her make small blankets that she can display some of her son's treasured items on in the house somewhere. Above all...LET her talk about him! This is the only advice I can offer. I hope it helps.

Kathie........forever Tito y Gina's Mom