Loss of an Adult Child

[peacefulnow]

Deewithgreeneyes, welcome back. I’ve been wondering about how you’ve been since your last surgery. I’m so sorry that you are feeling such pain and sadness. Don’t feel guilty because you are not in a position to lift others spirits right now. Sometimes the pain is too overwhelming and hits so darn hard that it makes you retreat into yourself. It’s probably a self-preservation thing…you need to protect yourself when you’re feeling so fragile. It takes all your energy to keep yourself going sometimes.

I understand how you wish you had not survived, and that Michelle had. I, too, would have gladly given up my life for my son. Not a day goes by that I don’t wish on some level that I were with him now. But, Kaili does need to know her mom…and what better person than you to keep that memory alive.

You’re being hit with a triple whammy here. You lost your mom and your daughter and you have heart trouble. Heart trouble in and of itself causes depression and anxiety…add the losses of two people who are very special to you…and man, you’ve got a formula for some major difficulties to overcome. It must be so hard trying to handle all of that. Just remember, there are a lot of wonderful people here who care. Cindy

[deewithgreeneyes]

Thank you Cindy, I know that you understand...it means a lot to me and I know that there are many wonderful, strong and beautiful people on this board. I read everday and wish for some of that strength you and the other's have.

Yes. you are right, heart attacks does cause anxiety and depression. I had my heart attack 3 days after my mom was diagnosed with cancer. She died 6 weeks later. At that time I just knew I had to be strong for her and my family, came right from the hospital after 4 stents and got right in there to nurse my mom. I needed help as I could not lift her etc.....just heer determination that my mom not die in the hospital. I am a nurse also, and I know that I am sub conciously doing all that I can to do the wrong things.....can't help it, pretty sad for a nurse huh? Had another nuclear heart scan and seems I have another 90 percent blockage in the centruflex artery...need another stent here soon I guess......just don't think I can go through it now......Michelle was such a huge support for me after these heart problems, she always gave me the strength to go on. I miss her so much.....

[peacefulnow]

Deewithgreeneyes. “Hello from Heaven”, by Bill and Judy Guggenheim is all about after-death communication (ADC). There are 353 firsthand accounts, presented as short stories. It’s very uplifting and easy to read in short segments. It claims to offer “comfort and emotional support to those who are grieving”. I found that to be true. I’m worried about you, Dee. Take care of yourself, please. Cindy

[julsmom]

Dee and Cindy - thanks for the postings. I appreciate it. I kept going through stuff, have at least sorted a little bit as to keep or get rid of or I don't know what the heck to do with it. Also came across 2 videos - one from 1995 when she went to Jamaica on a mission trip and the other a video of her practicing teaching a lesson for her masters. I cried but it was so good to see her again.

Peace. Lynda

[julsmom]

Dee - please hang in there. I know about the depression. My husband has some heart issues and is also battling the same. His mother died in December 2002 and Julie died in October 2003. No one should be put through these nightmares that never end. Please continue to post - is has been theraputic for me to both post and then to read how others are doing. I hope that it helps you. Peace, Lynda

[donosmom]

I have 3 living children, and they have all reacted differently. They were all very close to Matthew and had very special relationships with him. My oldest daughter who is 29 has a very difficult time talking about him, he was an organ donor, which she consented to but she does not want to discuss his recipient or anything about his death. SHe lives in Alaska so she pretends he is just somewhere else, it is always a struggle when she comes home because you can see the pain in her eyes, but she is a very private person and conversation has to come at her own time and place. I am trying really hard to respect that.

Michael and Matthew were best friends and they did everything togethter, they even had the same friends and they worked for their dad together. Michael has struggled with his identity he idenfied so much with Matthew that when he died Michael had to figure out where Matt ended and Michael began, he went to counseling and is probably dealing with things better than all of us.

My youngest daughter runs, she left home to get away from the pain only it has followed her. She has always been a difficult child and Matthew was really the only one that could reach her so it has been devastating to her I just pray she will be ok.

It will be 33 months come friday that we lost Matthew. We have had to make another very difficult descision, our lab who is 13 has become very agressive and he attacked one our jack russels this morning and then bit my husband at noon, we are going to have him put to sleep tomorrow, we have been dealing with his aggressivness for about 4 months now. He is deaf and mostly blind and the vet said he is always on the defensive and frightened. I hate this, he was one of Matthews favorite dogs and they were pals, I hope Matthew is waiting for him.

Matthews Mama Mary

11-3-79 - 7-13-03

[julsmom]

Mary, yes our children react differently. I think our son also was in a little denial since he lived about 11 hours from her. He is starting his law practice and I think he has too much time to think now and it may be catching up with him.

I also know about dogs. We put our golden retrieve/lab mix down last June. It was hard. He was the family pet and Julie just loved him to pieces. I have a great photo of Duke jumping on Julie to get at her milk glass. May you find some peace. Lynda

[deewithgreeneyes]

Donosmom...so sorry to hear about your old dog. After I got out of nursing I went to veterinary school and became a veterinary technician. That is what I was doing before all of this hit. I wish that I could find this poem for you that I used to have...I will look for it. It is about animals and how they have sould also.At the end it talks about the dog who went to heaven and heard a sound. He looks and goes running from the pack, tail wagging and barking. He see's his master and run's to him. Together they both cross the bridge to heaven...it is beautiful. I sent it to a policeman who lost his police dog in a robbery. I will look hard for it I promise. The vet isright these poor old dogs who lose their senses they depend so much on become very frightened. It is not the "norm' for them and they know their time is coming to an end. Treat him with dignity and respect, they feel it...they know it. He will be there to meet Matthew, I guarantee it.

Thank you for your reply on your surviving children, I will try and respect Mike's space that he needs.

[deewithgreeneyes]

Lynda, thank you for your post. I am sorry for your losses on top of all....It takes a lot from you as well, you must be a very strong lady. It is difficult to deal with someone that has health issues as well, dealing with your suband's depression must be hard on you as well as dealing with your own grief. Having a major heart attack is a frightening thing. It makes you all to aware of your own mortality, then to be hit with a death of a child makes you see it all the more. It does help to read these posts...if one person can make it through the rain, and then another, and another.....we can all make it together.....

[aprilsmom]

So much to say to all of you but I only have a minute so I needed to share this-My family went to a wedding yesterday near the ocean in Southern California. The bride was young, beautiful, and literally took people's breaths away. She wore April's wedding veil.........I thought I would be just fine. God it hurt, knowing what hopes and dreams Apes had when she wore it in 2001. From now on it seems like our lives will forever be laced with sadness. Regarding the siblings, April's sister and two brothers were at the wedding two. Kristi broke down when a girl at our table asked about her 2 sisters and the boys seemed very protective of me. How can our families not be devastated? It's been 16 months for us and we get the "over it" speeches all the time. Sh--, we NEVER want to get over April, her name is music to our ears!

[deewithgreeneyes]

Aprilsmom, I feel the same way, forever our hearts, all of us, will be laced with sadness. I wish I had "Yesterday" back, before Michelle's death. The things that were (I thought) important or sad, doesn't make a dent as to what a profound loss like this can do. Forever laced in sadness...that is sad in itself. Yet, with that sadness comes an acceptance of my own demise. I will be with my daughter again.....

I was thinking...wouldn't it be kind of good if we could all put our heads together and form some sort of weekend get together located so that all of us could go, meet each other, bring pictures, light candles, etc. Make this a part of the Blue Indigo forum. I think it could do-able...let's think about it and do some brainstorming. In our children's memory, it could go on and on for many years....Maybe one on the east coast and one on the west coast....

[mamabets]

For deewithgreeneyes and donosmom- The name of the poem, I think, is "Rainbow Bridge"... It is a beautiful poem, and hopefully can bring you some comfort. It is so nice to see each try to help the other during these days that we all are facing now. I think of you all and love the brave people that you all are for me... I hope that I help you too!!! xoxox I love you! mamabets

[julsmom]

mamabets - you are right about poem - here it is:

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.

There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.

There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.

The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...

[peacefulnow]

Ian has four surviving siblings. Their reactions to their brother’s passing are as different as each of their personalities. The siblings range in age from 31 years old to 11 years old. (Ian was the second oldest at 29.) Needless to say, their grieving is different according to their maturity level also. All of them tend to be very protective of me, and my feelings. I sense that they are sometimes hesitant to bring the subject of Ian’s death up…for fear of causing me additional pain. Of course, that is not the case. I will often gently bring the subject up and encourage them to share their feelings…with mixed results, but usually they do share some of their thoughts and feelings. I don’t push too hard, sometimes they seem eager to talk and sometimes not. That’s okay. I figure all I can do is let them know I’m always ready to hear whatever is on their minds.

[peacefulnow]

Deewithgreeeyes wrote: "It does help to read these posts...if one person can make it through the rain, and then another, and another.....we can all make it together....." How beautifully put, and so true. Maybe there is safety in numbers. (Sadly there are far too many of us.) I see others bravery and courage and it helps me feel as though I can do it too.

A Beyond Indigo gathering would be amazing. The idea of sharing pictures and stories, and lighting candles is such a lovely thought. It would be wonderful to meet all of you wonderful people face to face. I think it would be so healing.

Speaking of get-togethers. Mamabets, who did you meet with…Maskott and Mattsdad? One, or all of you who got together, please share with the rest of us how it was. It’s really great that you were able to do this.

Peace and tranquility to all. Cindy

[aprilsmom]

Dear Dee, Peacefulnow,& Bets - yes on the gathering for sure. Our family number is similiar to Ian's. April was 26 when she was in the accident. Her sisters were 28, 24, and brothers were 16 and 12. I never realized how tight they all were. Thank you to all here, I don't know of any that aren't a blessing or helpful with advice. I love the Rainbow Bridge as we have dogs as well. We all got them after the accident and it's amazing what a comfort they are. Take Care all, Renee

[daveydow1]

Mazey2--Linda,

My prayers are for you. I thought about you on

Chad's angel day. May you find peace in your

memories of Chad. Peace & light.

[missingchris]

MamaBets

You set it up, we'll be there........

Can't imagine not having you in our lives, Dakota can't wait to meet you this summer.

Hugs to all of you out there.

[daveydow1]

Lorismom--Patty,

I stopped in the library today and picked up the

book "Hello from Heaven". I look forward to reading

it. You mentioned that Lori was 34. I think that she

and Davey were nearly the same age. He was born in

1971. Could be that they know each other in heaven.

Wouldn't that be nice? I somehow feel that all of our

children share a connection in heaven since we parents

share a connection here on earth. Just my thoughts.

Take care, and peace be with you.

Davey's mom---Sherry

[daveydow1]

Donosmom,

So sorry to hear that you had to put down your

old dog. They get to be like one of the family,

don\'t they? My mom is facing the same thing--her

16 yr. old poodle is getting snappish and cross.

I know that she is dreading having it done. Our

cat Brownie is 10 yrs. old, so I will be facing

this issue also. Peace be with you all.

[mamabets]

For All- A get together would certainly be AWESOME!!!! Jeff and BettyAnn will be arriving, as it turns out , on Wednesday and will be staying with us until Thursday- This is the "hope"- They are limited with their time, and in talking with them today, somewhat overwhelmed, being away from home...This is HUGE for them, as it was last year that they attempted to make this trip and Matthew departed. I wish that I could tell all of you that I have the skills and the where with all to plan a Beyond Indigo party... I am adult ADD, in combination of a few other "things", wrapped around a 24 kt. gold heart!!! And, a gift of gab that would see to it that NO organization was ever necessary to pull anything together!!! LOL!!! However, I have no doubt that there are some that are skilled in many areas that I may not be. Kelly may be the place to start! xoxoxo I love you!! mamabets

[daveydow1]

Deewithgreeneyes,

I am so very sorry that you are having such a terrible

time. My goodness, you have so much to deal with in your

health, and your dear Michelle's passing only 3 mo. ago.

Yes, you will be the one to help little Kaili to remember

her mom best, because you love her and Michelle so much.

Don't worry that you are not able to help others at this

difficult time. Just concentrate on your health and helping

yourself and Kaili. I'm sure you are a very compassionate

person---it shows through in your posts. You will know when

you are able to offer help to others. Being only 3 mo. on

this hard old road we are on is so very recent. I wish I

could help you more somehow. Please take care of yourself,

and come back to BI. It has helped lots of us survive from

one day to the next. I wish you peace & health.

Daveydow1--Sherry

[maureensmom]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes, my heart aches for you, and for me also, it's been 4 months since Maureen died. I can't believe it, but I was so busy on Saturday, had to go to a work retreat, that I totally forgot that 4/8 was exactly 4 months. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? It makes me feel really guilty.

Dee, Michelle didn't die alone. God was right there, as soon as she moved closer to Him than to us. I have to believe that for Maureen also. It makes me feel so sad that I was doing stupid work stuff while she was quietly dying in her apartment, choking on her own vomit. But she didn't die alone, either. About a month after her death, I was walking back to a parking lot when I suddenly was struck with the feeling that Maureen wanted to talk to her Dad, and pretty much what she wanted to say to him. It was super-weird, but I went home and wrote it down. Some of it was that he should stop worrying, that God reached down and grabbed her, and that everything was so good, so wonderful where she was. And that she would see him when God made that decision, but she'd be waiting for him for the rest of his life.

But those vivid feelings of contact have just disappeared. I remember Mamabets talking about that in a previous post, how it got more difficult to "feel" your child. I can't believe I'll never see her again.

[deewithgreeneyes]

Dear all...thank you for your posts, again I am so sorry for your losses. Because I feel so strongly about all of us being comrades in this grief I want to attempt to see what I can do to get a gathering together for all of us. Please feel free to contact me with any ideas and I will start doing some research on how we can get this together. How comforting it would be for all of us, in a safe place and some history between all of us. I want to pass this by everyone...I could start for the West Coast..and someone from the East Coast could start something and somehow we could combine the two. What a wonderful way to remember our children together....

[deewithgreeneyes]

Maureensmom..Your work retreat was a blessing, your mind was occupied with other things rather than being occupied 24/7 by grief. I think it is very healthy and kind of wish I had something like that to occupy my time and space but I have to wait until I can return to work.

My mind constantly is working....thinking, dwelling, remembering the past. Our surviving children...the pain they are feeling. As my son put it "I thought I would grow old with my sister".

Michelle had her dog "Quest", he is 10 years old now and will be with me soon, he is also a lab mix. Great dog. I am a litle upset because Kaili was raised with hime but Michelle's significant other does not want Quest. I am taking him. I love Quest, he's a great dog. God Bless the Beast and the Children because they are so pure in their love....

[mamabets]

For Deewithgreeneyes- I am so saddened by all that you have on your plate... If I could, I would gladly come to your house, sit with you at your plate and TAKE some of your pain away... I am so sorry- Your life right now is so completely unfair- Period. "Quest" will be with you, and perhaps bring with him some answers... These animals have a way of really cozying up. Mine love to wrap their little selves around me and love me to no end. Their ability to just be there, always, has been a God send. I have often felt sorry for my animals- They do not understand this life change, but bot, are they little troopers... All 4 of them. Daschunds... As strange as it may sound, and I am sure it might, I feel your Michelle just zooming amongst these angels of ours with her beauty and love for life . But, for you to have lost your mom and now this...?? I won't even begin to try to analyze it- No point-!! This can't be sugar coated... How is your health? What do they want to do now after this last nuclear?? My hubby is a heart patient... Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, somehow managed fairly well... PLEASE email me at any time- huntross4@aol.com. God Bless You... Look for "hearts"- My Danny will be sending them your way!! I love you! xoxoxomamabets

[kathy714]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,i just read your post and my heart breaks for you,so many things reminded me of my life,i too loss my mother,and i miss her so much,Also since Nathan passed my house has been so quiet,i was always use of constant noice and kids,and now it's just my husband and i,and he is ill,he has been battling cancer,so he sleeps alot of the time.Iknow this might sound awful,but i watch everyone else with their perfect little happy lifes,and i listen to them complain about nothing[which is probally what i did],and i get so depressed. i want my family back,i get so envious.You also mentioned,how your daughter was crying for help,i also constantly think about Nathans last moments,did he suffer,did he cry for help,was he freezing cold,or did he just go to sleep and not know what was happening to him.I saw your daughters memorial ,she is a beautiful girl,if you ever need to talk just email me ,it is in my profile.You will be in my thoughts and prayers...T/C Kathy,Nate's mom forever

[julsmom]

Kathy, I'm with you. I want my family back. I want my old life. But it is not to be.

All, I would like a meeting somewhere. Sounds life fun. My husband and I also have meet with Jeff and BettyAnn. Perhaps there is someway some of us who are able can get together.

Peace, Lynda

[mamabets]

For Julsmom- I know- I was just telling someone the other day how I wondered where my life went... My life, where I knew that Danny and Jackie would forever be safe as long as we had each other...My life, where I knew that the love that wwe had for each other was all that we needed to survive... I have a picture on a wall that hangs behind me at my cozy computer area here at my home that is of that time. I remember "a time" when no matter who was beating me down, THEY had me safe in the palm of THEIR little hands, because we never doubted each other, as our names were Love, Love and Love...Then , life changed and the "players" took over, dictated, used money against their mother, wants instead of needs and ego instead of safety...So, we are now Danny's followers, in a life as I know it today, that is guarded, safe, and beautiful for him. He has never been as protected as he now is, and our story is as clear as it ever was. He is with the best Father that we have ever known. An ending that has brought with it a powerful beginning . A story that can not be denied by the "players" in this thing called "The Game of Life", love and hate, guilty or innocent, truth or REAL life consequences. Thank God that, as his only mother, I don't have a competitive streak!!! Passed down through generations, maternal side only!! We played fair, still do. Their father never did, still doesn't. I found out , day by day, along our troubled way, that we "listen" to what's important Our grown up hands grabbed on to Julia's little hands, the day that she was born, and said "Hold on tight, We love you and We've got your heart covered"!! We should be hearing from Jeff and BettyAnn any soon!!! Have you met them too??? Where do you guys live? They arrived in South Carolina on Sunday and we have chatted on the phone lots- They will be in Charlotte tomorrow and will stay with us until Thursday!!! xoxoxomamabets

[donosmom]

Thank you everyone who responded to my post about my dog. Last night my oldest daughter and youngest son were over to say goodbye and Clarence was just such a gentleman. Matthew always called him Clarbear and they started calling him that then my husband said "you know maybe we haven't done everything we can" so we are going to the vet this morning and talking to him about the problems and give Clarence a chance. I just can't do it now. We put a gate up so he has a private area to eat and an area in the yard just for him, he seems to like the privacy being so old with 4 other younger dogs.

How about Oklahoma City for a get together we are certainly centrally located. In July 19 - 22 of 2007 The Compassionate Friends will be having the national conference here. My husband and I are heavily envolved in the preparations we are serving as chairpersons on 4 committees.

Matthews Mama Mary

11-3-79 - 7-13-03

[deewithgreeneyes]

Donosmom, Julsmom, mamabets,kathy714.....

mamabets...ah yes, these beautiful litle creatures our dogs. I agree they bring with them so much unconditional love and teach us many lessons. I have a book "Lessons in Love" all stories about people and the challenges of life, how their pets taught them "lessons in love" a beautiful book. I have a houseful of pets, CJ my australian cowdog (she is 12) my mom's little dog Chi-chi a tiny old chihuahua (she is 14) soon Quest...then I have my 2 cats, Patrick and Tux and my mom's cat Tasha. I take in wild little critters that are sick and give them back when they have healed, so I have 2 hatchling turtles, 1 raven and 1 ospring. I never intended to have this many pets in a townhouse but with everyone passing and we are a family of animal lovers, I took them and have them. God Bless the Beast and the Children.

My nuclear scan came out showing a 80 percent blockage in the centruflex artery so I need another stent or 2. I inherited my dads genes and have severe coronary artery disease. My father died at 45 from heart disease. His mom at 40 and his dad at 46. i just know I am not in the best frame of mind right now for another go around so I will be having it as soon as I feel I am ready. Maybe after mother's day. I will look for hearts from Danny XXXooo

[deewithgreeneyes]

Kathy714...I am sorry to hear about your husband, very sorry. You too have had many losses and I know how you want your old life back. Seems we all feel the same way. I wish I could make sense of all of this we are going through, like mambets said there is no rhyme or reason, is it as it is. I know for myself I have zero tolerance anymore for those that complain about superficial things and must constantly remind myself I was like "them" at one time or another in my life. All of "Us" have almost been put into another dimension of reality through our losses. Our life is no longer like it was in any way and never will be. I guess this is what acceptance is all about. I laid awake last night trying to figure out the "lesson' being taught. Can't find an answer. All I know is that I have found a certain freedom in all of this. I used to be scared of death...my death...now I am not. I used to think I deserved a supporting relationship with a man (I am divorced and have certainly picked out some real frogs) now I don't. I don't want one or need one. I have gone through these losses without a man at my side and I found out I was looking for a relationship to lean on someone. No more. Most of all I have found that this is the worst it can ever get so nothing scares me. Make sense?xxxoooo

[deewithgreeneyes]

Julsmom...I will work on finding a place. Oklahoma sounds good but I have some old friends that have a horse and guest ranch in Texas. Lakes, cabins, horses, farm animals, cowboys. It is called the Quarter Circle Ranch. I used to be (in the old days) a cowgirl and worked at their ranch in California for many years when my kids were growing up. I have kept in contact with them for a long long time. They have a chapel on the property and a meeting place and hotel. If everyone thinks that would be appropriate let me know I will see what it takes to get there. I will send their web page address to everyone as soon as I get off the screen and get to my e mail. They just e mailed me today. xxxooooo

[deewithgreeneyes]

Donosmom....

I am so glad that you decided to wait it out. I was going to say something yesterday but did not want to give advice to hold on. Eveyone needs to do what is comfortable for them. I do have a suggestion. As I have posted I work with animals as a career right now. For blind dogs using small amounts of different scents (ie perfume) will help a dog find it's way around. It is not so much the blindness that upsets them it isthe loss of hearing. Dog's do not rely on their sight they rely on their hearing. So it is the deafness that causes them to lash out. I vote let him finish out his life as it is supposed to be unless he is in a lot of pain which does not seem to be a factor in this. Dog's know instinctively when the end is coming and will make a point to drive themselves away from the "pack" at this time. My real career is working with wolves and returning them back into the wild. Before Michelle died I was working with the Wolf Center, radio collaring, tatooing, DNA testing wild wolves and releasing them back to the wild. Our dogs still retain 90% of their wolf characteristics or instincts. I miss working with the wolves but will return to it as soon as I relocate. My goal is after I move to open a wildlife rehab place on my property and call it "Michelle's Mercy of Love' project. I have plans for this and will invite school age children to come and I will teach them about wildlife.xxxooo

[deewithgreeneyes]

Eveyone...the web page for the ranch is....cquarter@swmail.net........

[deewithgreeneyes]

I forgot to mention the most important thing (dah)...I will be leaving with a friend for the ranch in June. I can talk to the Chown's about getting our plan going. I have a friend who is a great musicina as well and I think he will play for us for the evening too. He is from Texas and will probably do it for us. I used to live in Texas for about 10 years, had a great little horse ranch there. Michelle used to love to come and visit me there. We had some really great times together on the ranch. She was quite a little horsewoman, could ride just about anything and had no fear what so ever. Pretty good little hand she was....

[donosmom]

Well we took our old lab to the vet this morning and he gave him some medicine for his arthritis and we discussed modifications that we can make for him. We also called a trainer and we are scheduling time with him to evaluate Clarence and make sure we are not doing things to aggravate the situation. We are going to Colorado for Easter and leaving on Thursday so we are going to board Clarence with his vet so that they can get a better idea of his aggression. Fortunately, we have gone to the same vet all of Clarence’s 13 years so he knows him and he said we were doing the right thing, but that with canine dementia sometimes it will progress to the point he will be a threat and at that time we will definitely need to make a decision. So Clarence is on his honor right now and we are going to work with him and keep the little dogs away from him as much as we can. He looked at me on the way home with “thank you mom” in his eyes.

Thank you everyone for allowing me to share and get support for this time some people think I am being silly. My dogs are my constant source of comfort, I relate to Mamabets so much with her doxies. I have Matthew’s Miniature Pincher, 2 Jack Russells a Doberman and my old lab Clarence. And they all think they are lap puppies. We also have 2 cats, a rabbit, and a sugar glider. For years my husband was a Wildlife conservation officer so we also have done our share of rehabilitating.

Matthew, I believe would be happy with my choices and I felt his presence at the vet today.

Matthew's Mama Mary

11-3-79 - 7-13-03

[kirksdad]

Pets, what would we do without them. They can be such comfort in dark times. I remember Kirk's cat. The poor thing had been abandoned when it was a kitten. It was lurking around our house, but we couldn't get close to it. Leave it to Kirk to get it into the house. That cat was so scared. She hid out around the house for a whole month or so before she would even get close to us. She would eat and use the cat box, but just wouldn't have contact. It took awhile before she trusted us and then ended up sleeping with Kirk all the time. He named her Phantom because she was always hiding, so afraid of everything, she must have been mistreated pretty bad. Anyway she became a great cat and a wonderful pet, she loved Kirk. After his death she knew. She started to go down hill pretty fast, even though she wasn't that old. She had 2 litters of kittens and we still have her last baby. Within a year of his death she was gone, it was heartbreaking. Our vet knew how hard it was for us and found a nice place by the lake to lay her to rest, something Kirk would have gone for. It is really going to be hard to lose her baby, the last pet Kirk was involved with.

We all need someplace to put that love we need to give. A pet can be that place. We now have a chihauhau named Little that is such a part of the family we already talk about how we are going to react when he is gone, it will be devastating. There nothing strange in the way we love our pets. A cat is a free spirit, a dog is a total companion. When they were involved with our children it really is hard when we have to say goodbye to them or have to watch them suffer.

[julsmom]

Our dog was just wonderful to have around. He too felt the loss and the sadness in our family. Now my husband wants another dog. I'm just not ready to make that commitment yet.

As for a get together - it would be great HOWEVER, as they say, I'm not sure I could get to Oklahoma, but that shouldn't stop others in that area. Perhaps small regional get togethers would work - the northeast, the southeast, the far and near midwest, and the west coast. I don't know, just some thoughts. Peace, Lynda

[mom2angels]

{{{Friends}}} ~

I've been so busy the last couple of days that I haven't had a chance to visit here to read, and you folks have been quite chatty! I think that is fantastic. I love to see you all talking and to listen to you.

I can't possibly respond to all of you, although you know I would give it a try, but it would take me days!

I do want to give a shout out to Deewithgreeneyes, as I have been really worried about you. When we last heard from you, you were going in for those tests and possible surgery. I'm so sorry that you do need more surgery, and I will pray for successful stint placement and a rapid recovery.

Last week, my close friend's husband had a massive heart attack at age 47. He coded 3 times in ER, and he had a stint placed. I've been researching on the internet for him and my friend to find out as much as I can about his condition and how to manage it. In the process, I discovered that the most likely triggers for a heart attack are anger and grief. His father died March 22 after a long battle with Alzheimer's, at the same time that my friend's mother was in ICU with ARDS (she survived miraculously). And her father died last July. And she, my friend/his wife is battling metastatic breast cancer in her spine. Stress, and a lot of anger, and grieving...heart attack. He is predisposed, as you are, as his mother had a 5 way bypass a couple of years ago. Too much illness for one family!

My point (and I have one somewhere) is that you are also predisposed because of your family history, and you are grieving heavily for Michelle and your mom. The difference for you and your family members with heart disease is modern medical technology. As a nurse, I'm sure that you know everything about your condition and the risks. And I'm sure that you know your own body too. I just pray that you will not delay the stint surgery too long. I'm praying for your healing, Dee. And I'm very glad that you are chatting with us again. It's good for you. Good for all of us.

And, Mary, I'm glad that Clarence is on his honor now. As I have wondered many times why God gives us these wonderful, loving animals for such a short time, I have developed a theory. I think God's point is to teach us about unconditional love. Intellectually, we all know that our precious fur family will only grace our lives briefly, and so we love them more deeply and appreciate them more for all of the love that they give to us. When they leave us, our hearts are broken, because we miss their unconditional love. They request so little, and they give so much. If only we humans could be exactly like them.

What a wonderful idea to gather together. But unless you all come to my house, I won't be able to join you! I can't even attend my cousin's wedding this Saturday, and it's only 30 miles away. That's all right with me, because Jon needs me, and I am where I am supposed to be right now. Know that wherever you meet, whenever you meet, I will be with you in spirit. I'll get your cell phone numbers and call all of you at your gathering!

Dee, I found the website for your ranch in Texas: http://www.cquartercircleranch.com/ You gave the email address, but I'm into internet researching now, so I Goggled it. It looks like a terrific place.

Blessings to all of you, and may God grant you peace and comfort today and every day, and may you always feel your children very near and hold them in your dreams~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[deewithgreeneyes]

Good morning everyone from the west coast....

Rosalyn, thank you for your post. You are certainly right about the heart attack information. I fit the profile exactly, had my heart attack 2 days after my mom was diagnosed with terminal CA of the bladder. They were treating her for a UTI for about 2 months. Had my heart attack at home (MIchelle was with my mom) and had 3 stints placed at that time, another 3 months later and the upcmoing event. My heart is pinned together (smile). If your friend starts getting a pinching sensation (odd feeling) in his chest it is normal I have been told. It is as if you can feel the stints in your chest, especially when under stress. I suppose they will put him on Plavix as well. Does he have drug eluding stints. I wish him a full recovery......

As all of you well know and have been down the path...I am extremely uptight these days. Michelle's birthday is Friday the 14th and I am getting extremely anxious over this. I just hate when I get like this because it is as if I just crawl in a hole and wander like some lunatic around my house. There is no ryhme or reason for the things I do, I find my chores half completed, papers scattered, don't eat, don't sleep...bizarre just plain bizarre....Love, Dee

[deewithgreeneyes]

Good morning everyone from the west coast....

Rosalyn, thank you for your post. You are certainly right about the heart attack information. I fit the profile exactly, had my heart attack 2 days after my mom was diagnosed with terminal CA of the bladder. They were treating her for a UTI for about 2 months. Had my heart attack at home (MIchelle was with my mom) and had 3 stints placed at that time, another 3 months later and the upcmoing event. My heart is pinned together (smile). If your friend starts getting a pinching sensation (odd feeling) in his chest it is normal I have been told. It is as if you can feel the stints in your chest, especially when under stress. I suppose they will put him on Plavix as well. Does he have drug eluding stints. I wish him a full recovery......

As all of you well know and have been down the path...I am extremely uptight these days. Michelle's birthday is Friday the 14th and I am getting extremely anxious over this. I just hate when I get like this because it is as if I just crawl in a hole and wander like some lunatic around my house. There is no ryhme or reason for the things I do, I find my chores half completed, papers scattered, don't eat, don't sleep...bizarre just plain bizarre....Love, Dee

[enufalreddy]

Hello to all.........I've been lurking in the shadows reading the posts but not leaving any. I think we all do our share of that. Tomorrow is my birthday and will be exactly a year from the last time I ever spoke with Walt on the phone. Very emotional today. I plan to visit the cemetery tomorrow. And also need to go to the monument place and give them the direcrions for what I want added to his headstone. I think tomorrow would be a good day for that. I will try to pick up some flowers that I can plant while I am there. My toe is healing much faster than I anticipated but still very tender. I pray for us all every day. That we can survive this grave insult with dignity and grace. I also pray for strength for whatever else may come my way today. Life has a way of throwing rocks in my path when I least expect them. So I guess I need to expect them on a regular basis. Life happens to everyone. I'm not being picked on. I try to remember that. Tomorrow will be a quiet day for my Walter and me. Love to all...Erma

[deewithgreeneyes]

Enufalreddy...I feel your sadness and your pain. I will be thinking of you. Have a peaceful day tomorrow.....

[peacefulnow]

Erma, I hope that tomorrow is lovely for your birthday. A visit to the cemetery seems so appropriate, doesn’t it? I did the exact same thing on my birthday last Friday. (It’s a little scary how so many of us think alike here sometimes.) It was sad, and I cried as I put flowers on Ian’s grave…but I just felt compelled to go there, and I’m glad I did. It must make it especially difficult since your birthday was the last time you spoke with Walt. I’ll be thinking of you and will pray that the day isn’t too painful…that you will have a sense of peace. Good to hear that the toe is improving! Cindy

[kathy714]

Dear Deewithgreeneyes,thankyou for responding to my post,i must admit i too am not afraid to die,Ialways say.Why should i be afraid to die,i have more people on that side than this.ALSO,a ranch in Texas sounds like a nice place to meet to me,i would be glad to meet there,although it would probally have to be after june,my son Kevin is getting married June 10th

[julsmom]

Friends I hope you won't mind that I put this on this board. Yesterday, Rev. William Sloan Coffin passed away. Those of us old enough to know of him remember that he was a peace activist during the Vietnam war. HOWEVER, he also is one of us. His son died in a car crash. He gave the eulogy 10 days later. If you wish to read it you can go to this website: http://www.pbs.org/now/society/eulogy.html.

Erma may have a pleasant birthday.

Today marks 30 months since Julie died. You can find pictures of her at this website: http://groups.msn.com/HealingAfterLoss/flyingpenguin.msnw

Peace to all Lynda

[mamabets]

For All- I can't begin to tell you how incredible it was to have had Jeff and BettyAnn here with us. We made some wonderful memories in our 24 hour period, I can tell you that... Not even 24 hours!!! They are beautiful people and I will cherish this forever. We celebrated Erma's birthday and made her favorite for breakfast this morning- "French toast, bacon and OJ"- We had "chats" with our boys, thanks to Care4U,jcruzgirl and cyberspace-!! We spoke of all of you and all of our angels. To know that all of the kids are together reminds us how and why we have ALL become SOOOOO close here.....I cried so when they left, only to have had them come back 5 minutes later to "check" on me!!! Danny used to do that...!!!!!!! It was an AMAZING and blessed way to see them off!!! I love you all, and can not wait until July or August- Jeff and BettyAnn are coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!xoxoxomamabets

[enufalreddy]

Thank you all for your concern and support. I had a very nice day today. I felt very much at peace all day. My daughter and I planted a mini rose bush at Walt's gravesite and spent some time there and visiting all the dead relatives in that cemetery. It was a beautiful day for a ride in the country and we had a nice visit in the car. Thanks Mamabets for celebrating my birthday with Jeff and Betty Ann there with you. How you must have hated to see them leave. Wish I could have been there with you all. Tomorrow Walt's daughter Sarah and her Mom arrive for the Easter weekend. I treasure my time with Sarah. I am tired but very much at peace tonight. I'm going to go relish in it and hopefully fall asleep.May we all know the feeling of serenity in our lives......Erma

[daveydow1]

To all,

On the subject of pets. I agree wholeheartedly with all

of you, that pets help us so much in our time of grief.

Our old cat Brownie also knew when our Davey passed over.

She would not sleep downstairs for quite awhile after.

Davey worked the 3-11 pm shift, and she would always be

there to greet him when he came home. Now, many times when

I am feeling blue and down, Brownie comes to me and wants

to be petted. When I pet her and she purrs, it has the most

calming effect on me. My husband also loves this cat, and

plays with her & pets her. She is still in fairly good health

for 10 yrs. old. My sister had an old cat 23 yrs. old when

it had to be put to sleep, so hopefully, Brownie has a ways

to go. Dogs are also a lot of company, and comfort. Betsy--

my son,Chris,has a red doxie--Sally, who is about 8 or 9. He loves

that dog, and she loves him. I pray for all here at BI and

pray that some peace and comfort will come to you all.

Deewithgreeneyes---You are in my thoughts & prayers as health

problems and grief are so hard to deal with. Bless you.