I Believe in God...

[suelowe]

Mark, you've provided me with some sort of comfort. at times when the loss is real, real deep you wonder who the heck you can turn to. part of me thinks i will get though,but the other part, i think, outweighs the first. unbelievable.

thank you for your kind words mark, and Happy Easter.

warm wishes

sue

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Sue, through the deepest ocean of our pain, I keep praying for you, for each of us, that we'll receive the peace we need. Take good care of yourself this weekend, and may the joy of God's goodness be yours. Happy Easter. Mark

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Christy, Happy Easter, my dear friend, almost sister. I hope God gives you lots of happies this Easter, and Kagan pops in for a little visit. I'll write soon, when I'm not so exhausted. luv ya, Mark

[starchild]

First to thank God for another day, and my prayers for all who are here. God set aside a place for us when he said "blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted". I know from experience that that is a hard concept to grasp when you are in the grips of the pain of losing someone who has meant so much to you. I remember asking God to stop putting people in my life if he was just going to keep taking them away. (Forgetting that they were his to begin with) It had got to the point where I wouldn't let people who cared about me near me because I was afraid that I was some weird poison and that loving me carried a death sentence. Everyone who influenced me and helped shaped my life died and that caused me to retreat within myself. I started living a dangerous lifestyle and picked up some pretty destructive habits. I couldn't understand why such a loving God would leave me here to endure all of this pain. What did I do wrong? My faith had hit bottom and dying seemed like the only way out. But no matter what I did to myself or situation I put myself in. God wasn't ready for me yet. He let me do alot of suffering. (See pain is natural, suffering is optional) And held me in his arms while he waited on me. When I got tired of suffering and realized that he was in charge. The miracle of healing started. I came to believe that I deserved to heal and that desire turned into a desire to live. I don't know what my testimony is supposed to be. But it has been forged from many a tribulation. I know today that if I'm justified in my faith, I will find peace. Now people are still dying. Including my grandparents last year and my husband of 5 months this past January. And I'd be lying if I said that I don't hurt like hell right now. The pain of losing a loved one has a funny way of cutting straight to the core of your essence. A place where you can't hide from yourself. And even though each of our situations is unique and the level of pain individual, it is the pain and the desire to heal that has brought us here. I pray that each of us able to reach our goal of balance so that we can honor the path we were chosen to follow. Have a blessed day and remember that it is what it is.

[kagansmommy]

Thank you Starchild for your story. I am at that point in my life you spoke of. It has been 1 year since my 18 month old little boy died and 2 years since my father died. I avoid people at all costs. I don't answer the phone or return phone calls. I shop late at night to avoid running into someone I know. But the worst thing is that I have seeked out drug's off the street. Mark, I know you are going to kick me for not telling you this but Buddy your plate is too full now. I have pushed my olders on and 2 grandkids out of my life. I'm at the point now that I don't care if I get better or not. God let Kagan down by robbing him of his life. And he let me down by robbing me of my beautiful baby.

I have lost my way so bad I can't even see the road I am supposed to be on anymore. Thank you again for your story.

Christy

"Mommy loves you Kagan"

[starchild]

Dear Christy, I hope this posting finds you being good to yourself, if only for today. I was so sorry to learn of the losses that brought you here. Kagan is a beautiful name and I bet he was a beautiful child. I'm sending a (((hug))) your way. Just trying to sort out all of your thoughts and feeling is hard enough by itself without the bullsh*. The streets cannot fill that void that is in you. If anything it will diminish the light of your spirit and delay the healing that you need to begin living life on life's terms. That same energy can be used to accentuate the positive aspects of your life. It's not like it's not in you. For you to even reply to the topic "I believe in God", speaks for itself. Your light has not gone out yet. The path to God is right at the end of your prayers. And his shoulders are wide enough to carry all the shock, denial, anger, more anger, sadness, depression and every other stage of our grief. But you must do the earthwork. That means being responsible for the effort, not the outcome. If you did your best by your father and your son, then what else was required of you. The rest is up to God. It looks like you have some decisions to make, but remember you are not alone. Have a blessed day Kagansmommy

[lauraa]

Starchild,

Your post hit home with me....thank you because it made me not feel so alone...which I do! I am very angry still at god for taking my dear sweet husband away from me and the kids....I can't hardly pray or go to church....I do believe but I am so damn pissed! Now, I am depressed and I just don'tknow how to get myself out of it. I just don't love life anymore! I feel so lost! We worked our fingers to the bone and now I think "for what"......I see so much evil in this world and just stand back and wonder what's happening in this world......why is it so hard, why do we all have to suffer so? Everything is so fast paced and seems no-one has time or cares anymore which isn't the way things are suppose to be....seems everything is about the bottom line which is money...which is so far from what we were about.....thank you for your words of encouragement!

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, living tough and wild, and losing so much, these teach us that we need to live by faith. I was there, many years ago. I'm still a little wild, but innocently, just having fun with being crazy. Crazy is part of my career in music. Back then, I was destructive, violent, addicted, and generally not someone to mess with - that was before faith. I'm sorry you have lost your husband and grandparents. For the moment, hold onto your faith, and don't set too many expectations of yourself. We're in a journey here, one of our heart's pain and sorrow. At times, I'm overwhelmed with my own faith. At others, I'm like Laura somewhat, totally p o'd at everything. My wife is in the final stage of dystrophy, which means we have no clue of how much longer she'll have to endure this painful, hideous monster of an illness. When you get angry, and it feels like you're angry at God, take a close look to see if you're angry at death instead. Point your emotions into something constructive. This is healing for you. I'll keep you in my prayers. Please feel free to write anytime. We're here to listen.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Christy, I love you like a sister. Here's your (((hug))), hon. I'm not as upset as you may think. I understand what this grief does to us. I'd rather you not push anyone away, though. It's okay to lean on your older ones, and your friends. It's okay to call me at 3 am and cry your head off. Please take care of yourself. I know what you're going through, after losing Jenni. We're all here to help each other, no matter what we've done, no matter how we feel. This isn't about judgment, but about getting through this insufferable pain together. I'm always here for you. love you, Mark

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, it hurts to work so hard building your dream, then see it stolen away. But still, you are a perfect mom to your children. Cry in the quiet moments when you must. While this journey is so painful and difficult, try to hold onto who you are and all you hold dear. The pain and sadness and depression will run their courses and fade in time. You'll finish this journey, and be a stronger person for it. You're with friends who care. (((hugs))) Mark

[lauraa]

Mark,

You are a dear soul! You always manage to say things to make me feel better. It is reassuring to know that I can voice my feelings here when I am feeling low. I truthfully didn't post for awhile because I was so tired and depressed that I felt I wasn't any help to anyone else. I am sorry. I hate this sucky depression and anxiety crap. I know we all have to get thru it one way or another. I do try to be a good mom but it hasn't been easy with 3 teenagers and me all going thru the same stuff, anger, depression, etc....it hard and exhausting. I find if it ain't one thing it's another. I also find that I am so disappointed in so many people because they just disappear, they have short memories and forget all their promises to us. Oh well, I avoid alot so not to have to listen to the dumb comments or to be in an uncomfortable situation. I am really managing fine give all we have been given.....Thank you my dear friend and you take care of you precious self, too......or else I'm coming to NY and kick your butt....sleep....give Mary some luvin....and your kids, too! Bless you!

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, warning received. I promise to take care of myself. There may be lots of worries here, but I also have so many reasons to carry on. There's one little one, my grandson, who makes life so beautiful. He's a gem. We've seen all too many of those who say they care, then split. I keep my word, so you'll always have someone to lean on, cry on, yell at, talk to, or even cry with you. I'm thankful God let our paths cross here. And most of the time, I feel like it's you who says that right thing when I'm the one who's upset and hurting. Thank you. You are such a precious friend to know. Try to have a good weekend with your children. I'm always praying for you. hugz for you all, Me

[lauraa]

Mark,

You are incredibly honest which to me helps thru my grieving process. I know our psychics help to protect us and only allows us to feel certain things when we are able to handle them....that is why it is call a "process". I am so totally depressed right now that I could just die myself....it is the worst thing imaginable to go thru this and know you have to work thru the pain and go on.....words actually really can't describe the debth of my pain....only my heart know the deep ache.....thank you for all of your kind words through-out this year and for all your help thru this. I am in the "thick of things" right now and I thank you and everyone for their support.....Bless you all!

[mamabets]

For Kagansmommy- Christy, you have my email- Please email me whenever you NEED me, I am always there...Always, by heart!!! xoxomamabets

[starchild]

Hello to All. First I'd like to thank my higher power for another day.

Mark- I went back and read some of your past postings and I thank you for the care and concern. You seem to be consistent in your insights and they are welcome. I'm having some real trust issues lately. My prayers to you and your lady love. I really hope that your faith doesn't get tested again any time soon.

Laura-You really don't know how strong you are do you? Your strength has helped hold alot of us up and point us in the right direction. You're raising teenagers by yourself and you're holding it together. Stop playing yourself short. Remember the blessing that YOU are.

I read somewhere that religion is for people trying to stay out of hell and spirituality is for people who have already been there. Feels like I've been there and back. It seems my faith has been sustaining me for a long time, even when I didn't realize it. See it's not God that I'm mad at, I've wasted enough time and energy on that, it's those damn circumstances that are making me tight. Those circumstances that have tempered my faith to be as strong as it is. I understand it's his universe and I thank him for letting me hang out for a while. I also recognize my blessings for they have been many. He has shown me love beyond compare. I've even seen death and it wasn't a bad thing. So of course he's gets all the honor.It's just that I'm only human and my ancestors ate from the tree. So I do have questions. I'm just trying to make it fit. You guys help more that you know.

Have a blessed day and keep you head up.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, the pain and sorrow you feel is part of a journey. There are many feelings here, and before you reach the end of the journey of healing, you'll feel them all. Even though it hurts, it's aggravating, and you feel betrayed even, please remember that these all are steps in a process, and they do eventually pass. My prayers are with you. May you find the comfort and peace you need. Mark

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, when it's beyond words, please remember, God hears and understands our cries, groans of pain, and even when we pound our fists into the pillow. He knows what you mean. St Paul said we can throw all our cares on Jesus, because He cares for us. He knows how deeply you hurt. When it hurts and you need a friend to talk to, I'm always here for you. Rest yourself tonight. I'm praying for you. hugs, Mark

[lauraa]

Mark,

Thank you for the support. I think that I am just in the thick of things with my grieving. It's the why's, the anger, the sadness, the lonliness, disappointments in so many things and people. It's the exhaustion and low energy because of lack of sleep due to anxiety, worrying about the kids, worrying about surviving in all ways.....your words have lifted me so many times....my friend. I know you have experienced all of these things like me and it is not easy witnessing your loved one suffering and slowing leaving you. But, you stay strong as I know you are...not to say you aren't human and have your down times.....sometimes I think when we are down it is easy to forget who is in charge......Prayers headed to NY!

Starchild, thank you for your support. I did stay aways for awhile because I felt so low I didn't feel I was being any help to others and didn't want to bring anyone else lower than they already were. I think the lowest part of this process is when we are angry at god.....it is so difficult to work thru....the one we leaned on for our entire lives and then poof our loved one is taken way?????? I feel betrayed for always trying to be my best and for doing things for the right reasons....why? I am searching and working thru the best I can....I know god is still with me. I know I have to get thru this because that is where my husband is......anger has never been the easy emotion for me and it took many years for me to work thru another situation that involved anger (it was a difficult thing). I am stuck with it and twirling around trying desperately to get rid of it. It is hard when I have to come home to no husband....I just have to work thru the pain......thank you for your support and kind words.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, Of all the silly ways in the world to say this, I can't use humor and sarcasm now. I have very few very close friends within the personal space of my heart. You are one of those very precious few. With all you go through, you still find it in your heart to again lift up my soul and set me straight on this road of grieving and healing. For all your worries, depression and cares of the kids, if you need my scrawny shoulder to cry on, I'm there for you. If you need something in this world, I'll do everything I can to help. Lately, I think I've seen the effects of watching my sweetie dying. I now seem to have a pattern of staying awake for 30 to 40 hours, then only being able to sleep after I've become physically ill (you know what I mean). The good news is, I've found a great diet program; the bad news is, I don't need one at all for any reason. Ask Nikki; she calls me a twig. hehehe. luv ya Nikki. I'm not trying to argue, but that hopeless place where we get angry with God, is that near the place where I hate myself for not doing more for her? I feel like total $#!^ over it. It's like I feel this is my fault for not having more money, resources, knowledge of medicine, political pull to get treatments approved, whatever. Am I setting this up to blame myself for her death? My children and grandson don't need the added misery (hence, more turmoil and guilt). Yes, I'll get through this journey, and maybe I'll be a better man for it. Through it all, I'm always here for you, for whatever you need. Please take gentle care of yourself, and try to get the rest you need. Til tomorrow, I'm your NY friend, devoted to praying for you, helping you. luv, with a little hug for my friend, Me

[lauraa]

Dearest Mark,

I know what you are saying. When my dear husband was still here and ill we desperately tried "everything" to heal him and spent our life savings to do it....without success. I can honestly say I did "everything" I could humanly possible for him.....BUT, now that he has "passed" (I still can not say he died because for me that means the end and passed means he is in heaven and we will meet again)and going thru my grieving (deeply) there are times when I second guess myself or I relive moments that I wish I could take back (not many)but those moments were times that maybe I acted out briefly due to exhaution and emotional distress/sleep deprivation. I know you and all to many here can relate to all of this. I think we all really have to go thru the nasty stuff of grieving in order to heal and "it ain't pretty" but at the same time we all have to take extra special care of ourselves. Most importantly, we need to "honor" ourselves in how we feel because no-one else has had our same experiences. We are truely the only ones who can take care of ourselves. You Mark, are in the thick of things in life right now and I cry as I write this because I know your pain.....I am sorry for all your pain! My therapist asked me yesterday what my husband would say to me right now....I said, he would want me to be happy and that he would be so proud of me for holding myself and our kids together that he loved so much......and I cry and cry.........buckets....and, I don't know when I will ever stop crying because I loved that man, I loved our life together, I ache for the kids and their pain, I cry for all the suffering he went thru, I cry for all the other tragedies I have gone thru. I think when we go thru one loss it sometimes brings past traumas back. You keep writing to me and we will lift each other my friend. When you sit with Mary just know that if she had a choice here she would not choose to leave you and her family.....take it all in and just give your love to her. You have done nothing to cause any of this....and can't change it....that is the hardest thing for me to accept....because.....My husband and I were the caregivers and the ones who "fixed" things and most times we did....BUT.....not this time....and, it was the one thing we wanted most in our lives.........still crying and you probally are as well if I know you. You get the support anywhere you can and keep talking which is the best medicine most times! LUV and prayers headed to you and your family!

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, thank you so much, my cherished friend. I had to leave and return to finish reading what you wrote. I was crying way too much. No, it ain't pretty, all we have to go through. If I could, I'd back up the clock twenty years and undo all the stupid things I've done. My fundamental character flaw is that I'm a runner. Ever since I was a child, I learned that, when it all crashes down around me, run. But, with this, if I run from it, I run back into it. Running from love is impossible. Yes, I've said and done things here when I've been stressed and exhausted beyond human limits I regret. Can God erase them? Most of what was said and done was out of my fear, fear of being unable to go on without her, fear of this whole situation, fear of having to face the changes ahead. Lately, I've been giving myself time away from my family in the still of the night so I can cry, pray, mourn, and generally feel. To get through this sorrow, I must pass through it, even though it began long before she left. I hate this. We have done all we can in our humanity. Laura, if we have anything to be embarassed about in this, maybe it's in those moments we didn't give to ourselves for rest, the rest we absolutely needed. Had we gotten the rest, maybe we would have said things differently??? Who am I to say? You're so right. Honor. I think of my own family, and know they'd have run long ago, leaving the dying for someone else to worry about. You are my cherished friend. We hold our pain, our sorrow, and our honor in common unity and harmony. Few know what we've experienced. I pray God keeps it this way. You are always in my prayers. luv ya my friend, Mark

[starchild]

Hi Everyone, I read a different perspective about our journey. "Grief is like a spiral staircase, seems like we're going round and round, but slowly we are going somewhere".

Just as we need to clean out our homes, get rid of the old things to make way for the cleaning, we can do the same for our souls. Let go of some of the hurt, shame, anger, etc. Let in God's love and blessings.

Take care of yourselves. My prayers for all of us who mourn. Have a blessed day.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, what a neat perspective on "housework". You're so right! We can't really get to the business of cleaning til the rubbish is in the dumpster. Thank you. Maybe I should spend a little time looking for those little dust bunnies in my soul. You're a dear saintly friend. I admire what you said today. I do keep you in my prayers. I pray you are well, and God is helping you through the painful steps of grief, to take away some or all of the pain. Take care of yourself, too. Please do a little something to "pamper" yourself. We'll talk again soon.

[starchild]

First, giving honor and praises to my Lord for another day. You know it's really true when they say cry for the living. Life on life's terms is no joke. And dealing with life and death simotaneously is giving me a headache. I feel Stanley's presence everywhere. He is so strong in my psyche until I see him in my minds eye. Sometimes it's comforting because I need to feel his closeness but on the other hand it's maddening because I can't touch him. Or him me. I only pray that one day I will be able find a place for all of this. It says that being justified in my faith I will find peace. And access into his grace where we stand and rejoice. If I had known I was only going to have the short time with Stanley that I had, I still would have loved him with all my heart. I thank God for letting me know and love him. My helplessness is not hopelessness. I have to stay close to my beliefs or I will be lost. I will never be ashamed of what we had. It's just really hard to keep my pain in perspective. I believe at this point that I will be dead before time heals this wound. I truly loved that man and I'll never love that way again. I don't know what to do. I've never been in this situation before.

Mark: I hope this posting finds you taking care of yourself. I thank your for your sharing your courage and convictions and being true to them. It's a powerful example to this knucklehead. Have a blessed day and I hope your lady is feeling better. My prayers to you and everyone else who's hurting.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, what we can't see, we believe completely, and we rejoice in knowing that our faith will carry us to a place of unspeakable peace and love. You are sensing nothing too unusual when you see and feel Stanley. Many of us, including me, have seen, heard, and felt things we can't explain any other way than by accepting their presence with us. I miss my daughter so deeply, yet she's here almost daily to let me know she's okay. Now, please speak well of yourself, my friend and spiritual sister. God sees more in you than a knucklehead, and so do I. You are a blessing to me. I appreciate your posts, which always give me a lift from the depths of my own personal torment, my sorrow. Thank you for all you do here. Yes, I'm trying to behave. We have good news today. My wife will be in the adult skilled care facility within two weeks. This is bugging her a lot. She was a teacher, and feels like we're putting her in "day care". At times, she's okay with this, but then she blows up so visciously. I keep praying. Our Lord knows, and wants me to toss all my cares to Him. This is love. Have a good weekend, sister, and I'll talk with you very soon. Mark

[aprilsmom]

Hi Starchild and good buddy Mark, Okay, call me crazy-I was picking up the patio clutter this morning (Mother's Day) and I heard, "mom" I yelled, "what? Alex?") Well, my son was upstairs and never called me and no one else was at home. If I didn't really hear it I wouldn't have responded, right? I am struggling with all the After Death Communication stuff because doesn't the Bible tell us not to go there? I welcome my daughter's presence, it comforts me, but I've been told that in Deuteronomy there are explicit passages about not talking to the dead. I'm sort of confused - I've been a Christian for a long long time but I'm not feeling convicted for trying to continue feeling April with me. Any input friends? Oh, by the way Mark, a realtor told me that April's house is sold and Bobby and the girl moved about 6 miles away. He didn't even call me to tell me where he was going. I called him at 4 am this morning to wish him a happy B-Day which is today, but he never responded. He used to ALWAYS bring me flowers; now, he won't even text me. Guess it's time for me to throw in the towel huh? Wed. the 17th would be April's 28th Birthday, it's been a rough few weeks (18 months rather)and I've had a few on the floor moments. I am so glad to hear that Mary is being cared for so well by you; you are doing the RIGHT thing. Love to both of you, Renee

[Kelly]

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[kagansmommy]

Renee, I also heard someone call out "mom" and I replied with a "what?" before I remembered I was home alone. I know it was Kagan. There was no other explanation. I went to church with my Mom on Mothers Day and right in front of my seat was a penny. Kagan likes to leave me penny's in odd places. There were also flower petal's from the flowers I had dried from his funeral under my computer chair. The funny thing is that I tell him goodnight and I love him every night before I go to bed and saturday night I laughed and asked him if he was going to bring Mommy flowers for Mothers day. I didn't get the flower but I got the petals and that is just as good.

So don't ever feel convicted for trying to feel or connect with your child. I don't care what it says in the Bible. No one will ever take that away from me. I feel Kagan's presence with me daily and I welcome it with open arm's. There are too many things that happen that can't be explained away not to be him.

Take care all~!!

Christy

"Mommy loves you Kagan"

7/7/03 ~ 1/28/05

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Renee, there are some places in the Bible about conjuring a departed spirit, which is forbidden, but didn't Jesus even sit and talk with Moses and Elisha? They both passed from this earth centuries before He was born. If this is wrong, then Jesus wouldn't do it. I won't suggest that we go about it in a way that the Bible says no to, but if April pops in and hugs you, as Jenni does me sometimes, what can we say about this? You and I don't seek this out, but it happens. Hmmmm. About Bobby, I don't want you to throw in the towel just yet. Don't push the issue, either. He's also grieving, even though you may not think it or see it right now. Men don't think like women. We grieve in a much different way, and a dear lady like you may not approve of it (I have to face down a lot of stuff I'm better off not telling you at this point in the conversation, but if you so wish, I'll tell you sometime - - - privately). I pray for you. I really do. Please don't let the things happening get you down. You always have friends here to talk with about it all. luvz,hugz,me

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Christy, please read what I told Renee. I'm not into seeking out a conversation with Jenni, but I also have to accept the reality of still feeling her presence. Kagan is with you is his spirit somehow. I don't know, I don't understand, but I'm openminded about this. If Jesus can talk with those who have passed from this life, then is it possible we can too? I honestly don't understand it. All I know is, Jenni is a very real part of my life. It's good talking with you, sister. Luv ya, hugz, me

[lauraa]

Friends,

It's a sad day for us.....Could you all pray for my husband who "passed on" two years ago today....and, my children, too. Thank you!

[sweetpea1995]

Hello, everyone.

I've been on the boards for a while, but this is my first time in this section. I've been doing a lot of religious thinking involving death lately, and I figured this would be a good place to go with my thoughts and concerns.

My little sister, Allison, died when she was 9, on 11/22/04 from complications of Noonan Syndrome, a genetic disorder she had had since birth. Her life was full of complications and doctors and one day, while running around with her friends at school, she collapsed. She'd had an arrythmia and because of the condition her heart was in, and it was instantly fatal. I've often wondered how she felt in those last few moments. Did she know what was happening? Could she feel it? Did her spirit simply fly out of her body before she even knew something was wrong? So far, I can't find an answer, and I know religion cannot explain medical mysteries but I do believe that He/She (I am Pagan, and do believe in a God that is neither male nor female, but has aspects of both) would try to make her death as painless as possible, after all the pain she endured in her life on Earth.

I'm just a little overwhelemed, I guess, by all the possibilities of what exactly happened to her. I was brought up as a non-practicing Christian, but I feel no connection to those beliefs, and Paganism just fits better with who I am, so when my Christian friends try to explain things to me the way they see them, it sometimes clashes with what I believe which leaves me more conufused than before. One major differnece I have, is that I do not believe in Hell, or any sort of all-evil deity, so it's pretty much inevitable in my mind that we all go to a better place when we leave this life. However, I also believe that a part of our soul is reincarnated, and that each time that part is "recycled", you experience a completely different life than you have ever known.

I guess the reason I'm in here is just to see how other people view death from a religious standpoint. I'm not looking for a mold to try and fit into, but I would like to see how other religions view this, and how my point of view compares.

[starchild]

Godd Morning Everyone: The sun rose again this morning so it's another chance to give honor and praises. Wow Sweetpea you started my day off with some food for thought. Made me have to examine the spiritual road that I'm traveling on. Thank you. First, to me finding a God of your own understanding and being comfortable with your beliefs are the most important thing. There are many paths and different should never mean wrong. There are two kinds of death. There is physical death where the spirit separates from the body and returns to God. I believe that at the point of death the spirit levitates back to where it came from taking the persons aura with it. Since noone has come back to let us know what happens, I guess the process is up personal interpetation. Then there's spiritual death where your thoughts, words and deeds separate from the righteousness of God's will. There are a set of standards or laws, if you will, that have been set up for us to follow. And since we are the only ones created in his images, he gave us freedom of choice. The devil was a rebelious angel who turned other spirits away from Gods plans for righteousness and the concequences were for him and all his people is to reside in Hell. Even here on earth with man laws you have to be accountable for your actions. So if you are disobedient to the laws, then it follows that there is punishment. That keeps it simple for me. I believe in a higher power who loves me no matter but I also know that I also have to answer for my decisions. These are the boundaries of my spiritual zone. I appreciate the opportunity to share. Have a blessed day.

Christy: I was good to hear from you. Hope you're being good to yourself. If only for today. Remember you represent for Kagan. (((((HUGS)))

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Laura, I had a rather low day yesterday, but even though I did, you were continuously in my prayers. I hope you and yours are doing alright today. Even if you're crying, give them lots of hugs. They need you, and they know you need to cry a little and receive support too. We're always here for you. talk soon, yer friend over the border, Mark

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Sweetpea1995, I'm sorry you lost your little sister. I may not understand the illness she had, but I have a neurological illness that created problems when I was a kid. I'm the youngest of five, and lost my sister and brother to this illness, which almost took my life too. I hope my reply to your searching doesn't upset you, or make you think Christians are wierd or mentally unbalanced. I studied in seminary for a career in ministry. Through my studies of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, I believe that when children die, God immediately brings them to Heaven. I also believe the Biblical perspective on dying, that at the moment of dying, we are instantly in God's presence. I personally don't believe in reincarnation, but I have several friends who do. I don't try to push my beliefs onto another person. I talk openly about what I believe, but it's not my part in life to "shove it down throats". I hope telling you my belief helps you in your journey, and I hope you find the peace you need. If you want to ask more questions, or talk here anytime, please feel free. This forum only says we believe in God, but it doesn't dictate any religion with priority. This is the beauty of BeyondIndigo: we're all accepted here during our journey of grief.

[aprilsmom]

Laura and Mark, I hope each of you are warmed with some peace this evening.

Kagan's mom, Thanks for telling me that you heard your child's voice too, it helped me. Today would have been April's 28th birthday - I was running around like crazy this morning putting some flowers together to take to the crash site where her friends put up a white cross last year. When I finished, i slipped in to the shallow end of our pool for just a moment because April and I loved to swim together. I ran in to get dressed and had an on-the-floor moment then i got on my knees and prayed that God would take away my anger for April's husband, comfort me, and asked that He would always let me hear her voice. So- I'm driving to work and get on my cell to call her friend where they worked together. They had on the voice mail all morning with April's greeting. Sheesh, i tried calling 3 times and tried to by-pass her message and couldn't.....Some answer to my quick prayer huh. Ahhh, to hear her......how sweet.....and so laced with sadness. Peace to all of you. With Love, Renee

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, thanks for writing about your beliefs. I'm fascinated with the faith people have, no matter how similar or different. I pray you're doing well today. Please take care of yourself, and give yourself something special, just to make you feel good about being in this world, and about being you. Afterall, being yourself is a pretty special gift. Talk with ya later. Mark

[mamabets]

For Aprilsmom- Floor moments- All too familiar- Please, know what you hear, believe in what you see becaue April is hanging out, as in right there with you ata ll times, and being a mother who has lost a child, as in best friend child, only makes this ADC more real. The sooner you KNOW what you KNOW to be as far as hearing her and "feeling" her presence, the more open you become to it and the more she will do these amazing things to let you know that whenever you need her to show you a sign, she will. Read "Hello From Heaven"- A good, easy explanation about all of this from people who are in the know!!! xoxoxI love you!! email when you can!! mamabets

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Renee, I'm sorry I somehow missed April's birthday. Happy Birthday April! Hey, kiddo, you asked to hear her voice! God is wonderful eh? You mentioned something a few days ago, and I've been praying about answering you. About Bobby, I hope you can take a little look into my life for a second. Men and women think so differently, which is common knowledge. I've fought with my rendition of this decision for over a year, and still not settled on it. I think I'd like to sell our home after she's gone, so I don't have the memories creating more upset. But, I don't want to be away from her memories at all. I think I may almost see this guy thing in Bobby, the turmoil we men face. Or, is it a human condition thing, not just peculiar to us men? I hope what I say isn't upsetting to you. If so, please forgive me. I'm just a crazy guy, thinking like a crazy guy. I keep a lot of prayer for you, my Christian sister. luv ya, me

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Mamabets, I somehow recall you and I having a similar talk a while back. It's comforting to know that when dad needs to hear from his little girl, she's here. I miss Jenni so insanely much. This feeling never goes away. Next Monday is ten years since she was . . . (sorry, but that one word hurts). You've been a constant support and friend since the day you first came here. I appreciate you so much. I pray you receive what you need for today. luv ya, Mark

[aprilsmom]

Dear Mark, I'm so sorry that you're having to go through the 10 year mark - God, Mark...I can't even imagine knowing that a deliberate action caused your loss. I'm sure there are times when you want to turn this world upside down and inside out to find out why the cruelty of it all!

Mark - I DO understand you wanting to sell the house. It's TOUGH getting up every morning to all the memories staring you in the face....I would probably do the same thing. I have also read and been told that most men do not remain widowers for very long....maybe that is a guy thing, needing someone there right away to help ease the pain. And that my friend is A-okay by me. Bobby is an entirely different situation though because the DDD was in the picture before and because of that he is hurting US!!! One of his friends told me that Bobby can't handle being alone- fine, just be with someone else, he's a great kid and can get any woman he wants- why the ONE that hurt April? We don't want him to be alone; we'd like to see him choose wisely. If I wanted to be as hateful as I sometimes feel though, I would contact the opposing lawyers and blow his lawsuit right out of the water. A large part of the settlement is based on the fact(?) that Bobby lost his sole financial support and love of his life-hmmm, the jury wouldn't think so if they knew he had a previous tah dah. Why should this girl benefit from the death of my daughter? So many questions, so few answers.

Take Care, I will be thinking of you today especially.

Please keep praying for me...........I need it friend. Love, Renee

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Renee, thank you for thinking of me and Jenni today. Even after a decade since that monster killed her, all I can do is cry. No, he's not even up to the level of being a monster. I can't use language low enough, and none exists. About us men not remaining widowed long, perhaps I should email you my thoughts. They aren't what I would wish for everyone to read. You and I understand, but some people may be offended. I agree with you concerning your feelings about Bobby's "interest" in this other woman. You know I'm a street kid, and I think like one - street dirt and grime. My thoughts are mine, and won't be shared. I'd never once think to hurt your precious heart. You're April's mom, and need only to think of how much you love her. This is enough. I'm crying a lot, thinking of Jenni, so I'm going to stop for now. Later on, I'll email you. luv ya, and thanks, Me

[aprilsmom]

Mark, Did they ever find the man who took Jenni's life? When you e-mail me, I'd like to know what you found out if I'm not invading your privacy. See, I know the driver of the truck is totally messed up from the accident and although I never saw him, Bobby's lawyer said he is tormented, that he is a religous man. I did however get to meet the 20 yr. old son that was in the truck - it broke my heart - he will carry this with him forever. But Jenni's assailant- who, what? It wasn't a date rape gone crazy was it? Drug/alcohol related, or just plain horrid violence? I know there isn't any excuse either so I hope he is incarcerated if not dead. I have to share with you though. Yesterday at church, my pastor said we are going to see a judgement like none other at the new Jerusalem and that if we could just get a glimpse of God's ultimate justice we would never waste any time here being angry with anyone. Funny, I always thought vengence was mine saith Renee:) May you be enveloped in peace the rest of this day and the days to come. Hug Mary tight! R-

[starchild]

Hello Everyone, First thanks to my higher power for another opportunity to give honor and praise. I'm having to hold on even tighter to my faith these days, it seems like the storms just won't end. It's hard for me to be mad at God because he's been better to me that I've been to myself. But I'm pissed with circumstances. I guess whis too shall pass. Living life one life's terms once again.

Mark: I was reading about the circumstances concerning your daughter and it really took me back a scarred place. I am so sorry about the loss of your daughter. I too was the victim of a rape. A man broke into my house and climbed on my back while I was in my bed. He told me that if I did'nt do what I was told that his friend would hurt my daughter. As it turned out he was by himself, but I could never have taken the chance that he was lying. She was in a seperate part of the house He had a knife on me and threatened me with it. All I could think about was her finding me dead with that knife stuck in me. I can imagine your daughters fears as she never planned on leaving you like that. You know that rape is a crime of power and control, not sex. And you never know what's going on in someone else mind. Even people you think you know.

I hope you're following your own advice today and treating yourself with the patience and tenderness that YOU need. My prayers are with you and your precious "baby girl". I'm glad that your lady is feeling better about the move to the place. Take care of yourself. Till next time, stay blessed.

[starchild]

I'm a Friday's child

Loving and giving (smile)

THE DIVINE WEAVER

My life is but a weaving

Between the Lord and me

I cannot choose the colors

He weaveth steadily

Offtimes He weaveth sorrow

And I, in foolish pride

Forget He sees the upper

And I the underside

Not "til the loom is silent

And the shutter cease to fly

Shall God unroll the canvas

And reveal the reasons why

The dark threads may be needful

In the skillful esaver's hand

As the threads of gold and silver

In the pattern He has planned

(UNKNOWN)

[johngee]

In November of 2001 my wife, Lore, and I lost a son. David Joseph was still born about four weeks before his due date. Lore had carried David for just over eight months and had developed a bond with him that I could not begin to understand. I don't know if I will ever grasp the depth of that bond, but with her passing, I am now intimately familiar with the feelings she described to me in conversation. There is very little difference between her grieving experience over the loss of David and my grieving experience over my loss of her.

Lore journaled her thoughts often, including those of her grief over David. God saw fit to allow me the privilege of being comforted in my loss of Lore by some of her own thoughts and prayers. The following is one of the journal excerpts which she intended for those who are grieving. My hope parallels Lore's in that I hope that anyone who reads this will find some comfort in a spiritual remedy through Jesus. She wrote:

"Grief is a normal process of recovery we go through following a loss. Any loss of great magnitude, the death of a loved one, a divorce, a lost job or home, etc., is a life-altering event. For me, the stillbirth of my fourth son proved to be a life changing experience. Along with grief and inevitable change comes a great deal of fear and uncertainty. Newly surfacing feelings are devastatingly painful, seemingly forever changing who I am and how I view things. However, in looking back at my life I have found that this isn’t such a bad thing. In my searching for an answer to the “Why?” question, I found the Lord. I gave my life to Christ in December 2001, less than six weeks after my son died.

The past year, my walk through the grief has been decorated with the love and power of God. The old adage ‘time heals all wounds’ would be more accurately stated ‘over time, God heals all wounds.’ I miss my son greatly but I wish to celebrate and honor his life by glorifying God. God gives me comfort and He has instructed me to use the comfort He gives me to comfort others. If anyone is grieving, know that God is holding you right now and He will lift you up. You are special in His eyes; “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” (Matt. 5:4) Feeling inspired, I wrote this analogy of my journey through the grieving process through this past year. My prayer is that God will touch the life of someone grieving today and reveal Himself to you.

The Stairway

Walking through grief can be like climbing a seemingly endless stairway, devastated and broken you find yourself at the bottom only to see the monumental task before you. With no choice you begin moving up the steps but soon come to a door labeled PAIN AND SUFFERING. None of us want to go through that door so we look for a way around it. Looking left, looking right, going down and coming back up, only to find that door again. It hasn't changed and we despair because we realize there is no way around it. So we bite the bullet and open it.

Oh, it is a lonely, cold and painful doorway and we weep, wail, and moan. We seek comfort in anyway we can get it. We cry out for God’s mercy as we walk through it. The door closes, only now we are on the other side of it. On this side is the comforting warmth of the Son, along with a little bit of His strength and courage.

Before we know it, there’s that door again. The process is repeated over and over as we move upward. However, we begin to notice that at the beginning of our journey, the doorways seemed so close together, every few steps or so. But each time we walk through a doorway, the next one seems it was a little farther away. We begin to experience longer periods of warmth, comfort, strength, courage and even wisdom between the doorways. Love, joy and laughter are restored in our lives as we grow stronger and continue our travel up the stairway.

Sometimes, we come to a doorway that we feel we are not ready for or comes too quickly after the last. Yes, we tire and doubt and we want to give up sometimes. But in our wisdom we have seen that beyond each doorway there is more. Faith and hope have been bestowed upon us now and deep within us comes the desire to keep going.

Our Lord is faithful and just. He promises He will never leave us or forsake us. For in our journey and beyond each doorway our Lord provides a piece of Himself. A piece of His love, comfort, courage, strength, wisdom, joy, faith, hope and even gratitude for us to hold as we meet each new challenge. For He is in us, carrying us, showing us the way through the doorways, providing all that is needed for us to sustain our journey up the stairway. He is keeping us looking up and bringing us closer to Him everyday. For the day will come when we reach the top and meet our Lord in His Heavenly place where we will abide in Him forever and ever.

Lord, I thank you…For Your love which sustains me through all; For my loss, through which I have come to know You; For Your patience with me as I learn and grow in You being aware that I sometimes act in ways that may not be pleasing; For the sacrifice You gave on Calvary, so that I may live with You always; For Your Word where I receive Your instruction; And for sending Your angel, my beloved David who will not return to me but I to him.

In Jesus Precious Name, Amen!

By Lore

In memory of David Joseph

Born silently into the arms of Jesus

11/21/01"

In loving memory of Laura “Lore” Patricia, beloved wife, daughter, mother, and friend, my hopes and prayers are that all of us, who are grieving a profound loss, find a lasting, living peace.

John

[alwaysmyjennifer]

John, I am so deeply moved and filled with sorrow for you in this unspeakable loss. I will hold you in prayer continuously. If you read back through some of the posts, you'll see the loss my wife and I have endured, and are yet to endure. We lost our girls, Christiana, Cassandra, and Chantelle, in late term miscarriages. My sweet wife was developing such bonds with the girls before each was given eternity in priority over this life. Although many years have passed, I still long to hold my daughters, to tell them I love them, and see their beautiful faces. Alongside our loss, you can read of my other losses, and the most painful one I yet must endure. My wife is in the final stages of dystrophy, with no way of telling how much more time she may have with me. This isn't like fighting cancer, which may have a known or estimable length of life. Someday, the Lord will take her from this painful disease, without warning, like a "thief in the night". As deeply as I'll miss her, I'd never think to ask her to struggle with this illness and pain just to stay here with me. We'll be reunited in Heaven soon. Please feel welcome to write anytime. We're praying for you and with you. Amen. "Blessed are they who mourn . . . " this time of grieving will come to an end, and we'll be comforted. What a hope is in the Word of the Lord. May His comfort and peace be yours. Mark

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Renee, I've been a little quiet this week, and I know you understand. On Jenni's day, at 7 pm, my neighbor and friend died at his dining room table, sitting with his wife, when he had a heart attack. He will be given a military funeral, with full honors, on Friday am. If you would, my sister, please pray the Gospel is preached. There are some sweet people in my neighborhood, but few have faith. I'll send you that email. I tried on the 22nd, but ended up crying for hours. Seeing John's post makes me think sooooo much of Christi, Casi, and Chantelle. The names for the first two were my sweetie's idea, and Chantelle was mine, being true to form Canadian. My wife insisted on the "i" thing at the end of their names, so you can see we carried it on with all our girls. I'm praying for you. I'll write very soon. luv ya sister, Me

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Starchild, as I read your message, I had to stop and come back to it. . . too many tears. I'm so sorry you had to endure that. I grew up in that kind of environment, so I can understand the torment and pain survivors feel. I don't talk about what happened publicly, because it's a very unpleasant and private part of my history. If you ever need to talk privately about what happened, and pray for the release and healing you deserve. I'm praying for you. Mark

[aprilsmom]

All the postings here have truly inspired me -thank you all so much. I have been a Christian for so long and still, so often, I forget to fall into His arms. I know He is there, why am I so stubborn? I don't know.

Starchild, John, Mark, peace to all of you today as I say a little prayer on my way to work. I am in California about an hour north of LA. I go to 7 different schools and work with kids in wheelchairs and some high functioning Down Syndrome kids and autistic kids. I have those who cannot speak at all to kids that will crack you up. When I look into the eyes of the most profoundly disabled kids today I will once again thank God for the time I had with April. We were so fortunate to have 5 healthy, perfect kids. And Mark- mine were Kristi and Jami with "i"s at the end. If you look at April's pictures on the website (aprilduarte.com) there is a picture of her in the middle with sisters Jami on her right and Kristi on her left(I think it's titled Bahamas cruise 2004). I miss her and know I need to lean on the Lord more. Someone told me that Bible stands for: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Good thoughts to you, Renee