Loss of an Adult Child

[zachysmom]

Tomorrow will be an interesting day Hubby and I have a counseling session. I will be handing him and the counselor a letter and then leaving because my daughter's counseling appt is at the same time. I have to be in the appt because her behavior has gotten so out of control that I had requested the counselor to contact the local police to have someone talk to her. I hope this gets the point across to her because she has been hitting me and stealing from stores. Last week she threw a rock at her bus window. I am hoping that this works because the path she is on at almost 9yrs old is leading right to juvenile corrections and I don't want that for her. As far as hubby he can have time to read the letter and process it with the counselor by himself. Maybe it will get my point across. Who knows. So please everyone cross your fingers that this works for my little girl.

[daveydow1]

Denise------I am sorry for your loss of your dear son. This site is a good one, and everyone here understands

the pain that you are in now. Please come back as you feel you are able. Peace to you.

Dee----The warm water pool sounds like just the thing that would help you feel somewhat better in dealing

with that nasty bug that has been pestering you for so long. It took me about 2 mo. to shake it off over the

end of Nov., Dec. and part of Jan. It would come & go.....but wouldn't go away completely. Must be some strong

strain of some kind......I've heard a lot of people say they had the same thing.

ADAM......ADAM.......ADAM........SMILE DOWN ON THOSE WHO LOVE YOU & WARM THEIR HEARTS AND SOULS

WITH YOUR LOVE FOR THEM.

Thinking of you today, .......Terri.

Diane-----I'm so glad that you were able to go to lunch with your daughter. I know just how that can be a big

step. To many others, it may seem minor, but we who carry the unbearable grief of losing a child, it is not

that easy,.....and it takes a lot of energy and will to do it. I'm proud of you for doing that.....and I'm sure your

daughter was glad. Peace & comfort.

Crystal-----You mentioned wanting to listen to the hymns that you remember. I, too, would listen to church music...

still do. It can bring a lot of comfort & peace....I found that I liked listening to the music rather than listening to a lot of

words spoken. It seemed that my mind was a bit weary from hearing words, so music helped. I hope it helps you too.

Lori---mom of 2 angels-------Sending prayers that you can find some kind of peace in the sorrow that you are

in now.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[mikesmomrs]

Denise: I too am so very sorry for the loss of your son. This is a comforting place to be, with the understanding that we need as we grieve the loss of our children and begin the journey of healing. As you likely already know, that journey is traveled at a different rate of speed by each of us, and many times we can make three steps forward and wind up two steps (or even four!) back without even knowing why! Please come and share your son with us, when you can.

Amy: I meant to tell you the other day that it sounds like Ethan had a wonderful time at the baseball compound...I can just imagine his excitement over the autographed ball and the card game! Thank you for sharing his joy.

Beth: I am so sorry to hear of your daughter's troubles and I hope that the therapist is able to help bring things around. As well, I hope you hubby is able to take in what you've put into your letter and let it help him to help you.

Diane: It is wonderful that you were able to go to lunch with your daughter...she must feel very happy that you took the time and made the effort. I am sure that she worries about you and also misses the "you" that once was. Making this effort to make the connection with her, I am sure made her feel loved.

Lorri: How terrible for the 2 little ones to have to go through such trauma! I hope that your nephew and his wife get some help to enable them to show some responsibility towards their children. It was good of your brother to take the kids in. Perhaps they will feel safe and loved there. I hope your jaw heals soon and you are free of the pain.

Tylers mom: Good luck with the grocery shopping...it was a long time before I had any semblance of a mealtime here...we really got used to take out, or just going out and eating. No organization whatsoever. My husband having kidney cancer surgery last year was the catalyst for my going back to some type of organization, as he has to be on a very restricted diet, that doesn't include much of what you can buy ready made.

Dee: Your warm water therapy sounds wonderful...I hope that it helped and you feel better. I hope you are able to get some rest this weekend. How is John? (hubby)

Rhonda: Those days of wondering where we are on this journey are never far from our minds...the questioning of our faith, the need to have answers...overpowering sometimes. I wish for you some peace-filled days, when you can just think of Westley and the warm, sweet memories will fill your heart with sweetness.

Lori: I am so sorry that your husband has had such a hard time recognizing your need for alone time and his refusing to allow it for you. Of course you miss your girls...your world was turned upside down...your life is on a different plane now, and it will take much time to settle into some sort of routine that allows you to function. Holding you close, Lori, as you begin this journey that no one ever signs up for. We are here for you, always.

Trudi: thinking of you, sending good wishes and congrats for finishing your paper. I hope you are able to get back to the comfort of the home at the ocean soon.

Sus: How is Jasmine?

Cathi took Jamie to a new doctor today, for his skin problem, suspecting it is psoriasis. He is 12. Jamie is a nice kid and he is very embarassed by the skin problem...it doesn't show a LOT, but there are marks on his face, arms and back of his neck, as well as on his scalp. He is an adolescent, weighs more than he should, and new to middle school, struggling to "fit in." This doctor was a brute! She never once said his name, the whole appointment. She told him what he needed to do, which among other things, is to shampoo EVERY night, (Upper case used for show her being loud to make a point) leave the shampoo (or some other treatment, I can't recall) in his hair for 30 minutes, then shampoo again and rinse really well. EVERY night. Jamie kind of gasped, and she said "DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS GO AWAY? DO YOU WANT TO BE TREATED?" Cathi happened to mention that she had read that sometimes a person's diet can impact this skin problem, and that Jamie is undergoing allergy testing to rule out any problems with that. The doctor immediately abruptly said to Cathi "Well, what does he EAT?" (Not "Jameson, what do you eat?") Cathi tried to explain that Jame has sensory issues and finds it difficult to eat many different things, mostly he sticks with pasta, chicken nuggets (very unhealthy, we all know), pizza, or a turkey sub at Subway. He will also eat apples and grapes. The doctor came back, loudly, addressing Cathi with "IS THAT WHAT YOU BUY?!" Then she turned to jame and said, "you are TOO heavy, MUCH heavier than you should be. Obese children turn into OBESE teenagers, who then turn into OBESE adults. Is THAT WHAT YOU WANT?" Remember, this was the very first time this doctor met Jame...Cathi told me his lip was trembling and he was visibly shaking at her tirade. Poor Jame, I felt so bad for him...what the doctor said is true, but she sure could have used a more empathetic manner with him, instead of attacking him. Cathi said that she just couldn't believe what was happening, and couldn't even find her mouth to speak up, just took Jame, the prescriptions, and left. She has since written a letter to the organization, acknowledging that the doctor was accurate in her observations, but lacked any sort of compassion or empathy, seeming to attack Jame's problems and not allowing him to participate in the appointment at all...no questions, no offer to answer questions, and as I said, never even addressed him by name. I think that a patient has the right to expect that a doctor will extend their best demeanor at a first appointment, and surely, being a dermatologist, she has dealt with children and skin problems before and should know that they are going to be sensitive to seeking help for them. Anyway, I just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant...

Take care all, thinking of everyone, as usual, holding each of you close. I hope you have a decent weekend.

[Guest msnher]

Carol - Thank you for asking about Jasmine. Her teacher made a special effort to tell me how well behaved she's been this week, so she gets her bike back today. Unfortunately, it is cold and rainy so she won't be able to ride it. I spoke to the teacher about the little boy who has been picking on her and she said they are watching him closely because there has been other complaints. I'm both protective of Jasmine and sad for the little boy....hope all is well at home for him. I'm sorry Jamie's experience at the doctor was so negative. That doctor obviously has some issues. I'm glad Jamie has his mom and you to help encourage him through any negative impact the doctor may have made.

I haven't heard for sure, but Amanda and Jennifer are both hoping to be able to make it to Casper for their grandma's funeral. I haven't seen either in over a year and it will be good to have them in my home again.

Gary and I are hoping to take a two week vacation this summer and drive to New Hampshire. We will stop in Iowa to spend time with Jen and then go on to Nigara Falls. I am hoping to be able to meet some of you a long the way. In Wyoming, everything is two hours away, so we don't mind having to detour a bit in order to say hello. When we have our route mapped out I'll let y'all know.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Cdawn75]

I get so discourage sometimes, Listening to stories of how someone had recieved a sign and even got a picture of it to share, it makes me happy for them, to see the joy on their face that their loved one was around. But it makes me so sad inside , empty, unworthy of my sons presence. He has been gone for 20 months and i've seen one rainbow that appeared the passenger side mirror , that i couldnt see looking outside of the vehicle. It was a clear sunshiny day as well. But that is the only "sign" i've seen. I dont get why?? others tell me they have recieve signs from clinton, i've seen pictures of his "shadow" in peoples pictures. Why is it that i wouldnt get them? Does he truly blame me for his death? Does he think that i didnt do enough for him to keep him safe and loved? I hate all this , i just want my son back and never have to wonder again if he knew i loved him and or question his love for me!!!

[hotrod]

Good Morning Indigos

Pam I see Andy's smiling handsome face in the avatar I am glad you were successful

Beth I am thinking of you and praying that you are heard and that the sessions reach a successful outcome. have been thinking of my prayers these days and notice that I no longer pray for healing or "My Will". My talking to God and my "asking" is more in the line that I pray that whatever happens that we can have peace and courage around it . That seems to match my new found understanding of my place in the world and God's design

Carol so sorry to hear about that painful Doctor's appointment Stephen had something similar No one could find the cause. It came on when school started in Sept and left in June I suspected he was allergic to school I am glad that Cathi wrote the letter.

Sus Glad that Jasmine is getting her bike back and It is so true there is always more to a story then we are told I am sorry about your MIL passing. Maybe you will hit the City this summer and we can connect.

Lorri I am so sorry that you have not been able to grieve I know I could not grieve either as there was so much to do after Stephen's passing and I pushed everyone away because (they seemed to torture me) I did not seek the Indigo family until about one year mark and I was a mess. Please take care of you

Dianne so glad you did get to go to lunch Small steps once a day does help

Betsy praying for your SIL and brother

Christy I hear you and understand I do not have any signs nor have i had a dream of Stephen There is no doubt in my mind that he knew he was loved and loved me I know tht Clinton felt the same. He knew and loved you in return

Crystal, Karen, Rhonda, Sharon Amy, thinking of you and you journey Thanks for sharing it with us

Sherry and Dee thanks for always being here to uplift us

Sonya, Bonnie, Trudie and all Indigos in my thoughts

[ericasmom]

WHY OH WHY DO I HAVE TO BE RELATED TO IDIOTS. (said by Lorri last night) My answer Lorri, simply because we don't get to choose who our family members are...I have some doozies. I am sorry for the children to live in such squalor that the law came in, and the broken arm? Sadness.

Carol, that doctor should be called in and given a great deal of homework, that she either learn how to deal with folks, especially children, or be let go. I would make surethat she even took psych. classes as it sounds that she never spoke to a child before. Eri went to a dermatologist once, with me and he was touted as the best in town...he was an ass. He spoke in the same manner addressing me rather than my Daughter, she was 15 at thetime. By the way, she had exema as well and when the seasons changed it became active adn stayed active in the summer months especially. We used unscented everything and the shampoo she sometimes used as she needed was tar shampoo, her daddy had psoraisis. I would report this woman to someone and find a nice homeopath perhaps, as diet definitely plays a role. Poor Jamie, too much.

Talk at you all more later, but Christy, maybe Clinton is sitting quietly near you on occasion and simply enjoys the sense of being near. Often here, you will hear that others get the signs not us, but those others share them with us and therefore we receive them too, shadows in the photos are great signs.

[ericasmom]

Betty, what are you up to? Are you strolling the park today, is the weather warmer than here, a mere 32 degrees?My prayers are similar Betty, that we find ways to live our best in the face of some of our worries, and that we find our way through hopefully helping others along the way.

Beth, so much to balance right now, and so I hope that in these sessions that those in position to assist are able to find the right words and motivation to cause great changes in your family.

Lori, I continue to hope that your husband can be led to reading about grief and how it affects parents and that he can find a less authoritarian way to deal with you. I know that many people think that you need to get up and be active adn resume your work in order to deal best with grief, but it isn't a cold or a bad day, it is tragedy, and tragedies for you, so no, expectations of your abilities and your time are not acceptable. The decisions as to what you need are yours.

Yesterday , I left straight from school to meet up with my sisters Mary Anne and Eileen and my nieces Katie and Laura and Laura's three friends that we have known since she was little. It is Laura's 25th birthday today, she is two years younger than Erica. So we always take each other out for dinner on birthdays. We met at a mall, our usual haunt, and went to dinner after some uninspired shopping, ( the 80's were bad the first time around, but now...ick) so anyhow, we had many laughs and we were our loud selves everywhere we went. I cannot go to these events without wondering where Erz would have sat at the table, what she would look like now, and see how hard she would have laughed at the many stories. She was as loud as me or more so. I miss her. I am now officially on spring break, she is my spring break, infact, we go back to school on her birthday. So I am hoping for some quiet time, time to visit the cemetery and time to just have some unscheduled hours of random anything.

[Guest msnher]

Dee - Eight years. Do you and your sisters go to lunch on Eri's birthday too? I know you have Eri Days. My thoughts and prayers go with you as you begin your walk thorugh this time of year.

We woke to snow (just a dusting) this morning. Yuck. I finally called my doctor yesterday afternoon asking for pain meds for my hips/legs. They hurts so badly yesterday I was near tears and could not get comfortable. Before we try narcartics we are trying 800 mg of ibuprofen every 4 hours for 24 hours. I know I did too much this week. My excuse is I felt good and it was beautiful outside and we had a whole winters worth of leaves blown in with the wind to rest on our back patio - where the kids play tether ball and their play kitchen is, so I HAD to clean it. DUMBASS label for me this time! Today I'm staying in bed (tempura matress - not by numbers, just right consistency) heating blanket around my hips with a pillow propped under my knees. Surprisingly, the ibuprofen really is helping with the pain. There is just a hint of burning/stabbing in my joints. I must force myself to stay off my feet as the sun tries to peek through. The kids are wonderful and our house is small enough that I can hear everything going on in other rooms.

[dwsmithrn]

lori, i am really sorry that your husband does not understand what you are facing and hasn't given you the time you need to tip toet hrough this life long 'journey' of heart-breaking grief. it is not fun, nor pleasant, and the heart will hurt forever....i am only 9 weeks into this thing, and i hate it with a passion.

every day i wake up brings new emotions. never a good on, at least not so far.

i am fortunate that my husband (step-dad) to nathan (and my other 3 kids) that he has been kind and loving and compassionate. i have not gone back to work yet...i have not had to go outside this house or gotten out of bed, unless i choose to do so. which, has only been a couple of times, and each and every time has been traumatic for me....i did make it to lunch with my daughter on thursday, and only a few tears were shed....i had to do it for her...she is having baby #2 soon, and she needs her mom....so, i dressed, and put on a 'mom face' for her for just a little while.

it is hard to pretend for those people who expect that, but i can't do it everyday, and i don't intend to do it. i will have to go back to my part-time work soon, but i'm not rushing, and my husband is not pushing.

i so wish for you, that your husband would give just a little. i wonder is he hurting so much that he can't stand to see you in that much pain, so making things more like 'normal' makes his pain diminish in some way? can you sit him down and really,really talk about these feelings? it may help both of you.

i am reading a book.."When People Grieve" Guidance for Grievers and the Friends Who Care by Paula D'Arcy.....it helps me with understanding what i am feeling and why...but more so, it helps me explain to others what they can do to help me...and i can just show them a page in the book...'what not to say or do' .....like my sister, who just wants to 'fix' me all the time....WE CAN'T BE FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! duh!

maybe a book like this one would be good for him to read...it is short and sweet and to the point. easy reading.

i hope you can get through the day, as hard as the days are....i am sorry you have to be here....i am sorry we all have to be here...

i am having a particularly hard day....yesterday was the worst....fridays always are, but today, for some reason, i am feeling like i let my son down and i just want his forgiveness and for him to tell me he's ok...somehow....

diane

[Guest msnher]

Well said, Diane.

[daveydow1]

Carol----I'm so mad after reading your story about Cathi taking Jamie to the skin Dr., and how that poor excuse for a Dr.

acted. She was unbelievably RUDE to Cathi, and especially Jamie, since he was the patient. A middle school child is

not an infant, and she certainly should have talked to him about his problem. The way she demanded answers from

him about his diet, weight, etc. was badgering and abusive. I'm glad that Cathi reported her to the association. I would

never go back to a Dr. who was so unfeeling and downright rude. After all.......they get paid, and paid WELL.

Some Drs. somehow become so aloof and out of touch with the patients (who are paying their salary, by the way ),

I have seen them in my years of working in hospitals, and they are generally disliked by all......especially the nurses

who have to deal with their crappy attitude. I feel so sorry for Jamie. Middle school is a difficult time in kids lives. My

Davey was picked on because he was smaller than the other kids (not by that much). What a JERK that Dr. was.

I have had Drs. treat me like a second class citizen, and I would just never go back to them, and told everyone I knew---

DON'T go to Dr ........unless you have absolutely no choice......which I do understand that that is sometimes the case.

I hope that Jamie's psoriasis will subside. My little grandie had psoriasis (diagnosed by his pediatrician), and he

gradually grew out of it (or it went away). He had it as an infant, and is now 4 yrs. old. Having allergy tests is a good

thing. I think.......just in case it is something in his diet. Prayers for dear little Jamie.

Sus----You are right......the little boy who has been picking on Jasmine may have some unhappy/stressful conditions

in his homelife. I'm glad that the school is being observant, so they can catch it, and deal with it. With all the attention

and education going on about bullying,.......it still seems to be much too common.

Christy-----I do believe that the rainbow that appeared in your mirror was a sign from Clinton. Sometimes, I guess we just

'try too hard' to have signs. I know that it was also my experience too. I have not

had any dreams of Dave in a good while, and had not had a dream of my baby, Lisa, (who died many yrs. ago), in what

must have been decades.......then about 3 or 4 mo. ago, I had a sweet dream of her.......very short, but oh, so sweet.

Dear Clinton is surely smiling down on you, friend. Peace to you.

Betty------How's the little hurt-paw squirrel ? Have you seen her lately.....with spring trying to come about....finally.

Dee-----Oh, I sooooooo agree about the 80's styles trying to make a comeback. I wasn't quite sure WHAT era they are from,

but I think I will organize a full-fledged revolt if they bring back those horrid wide shoulders with shoulder pads that made

women look like they could run interference for any NFL team. YUK !!!! How ugly they were. Does anyone else agree with

me on that fashion trainwreck??? Just saying.

Diane-----Nine weeks is so very new on this lousy road......I know I don't need to tell you, friend. I believe that it is good that

you have not returned to work yet. One needs time alone after the devastating loss of a beloved child, to just grieve. Some

people will say that it helped them to go back to work, and that is just an individual thing. No set rule for this. Each has to

do what they think best, and what they need to do in their own individual way. I returned to work just 5 wks. after my son

was killed, and for me......it was too soon, but I was being pressured to return as soon as possible. I so know what you

mean about the shock and sorrow and waking up each day to it. Sending thoughts & prayers your way, friend.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[ericasmom]

Yep, well said. Diane I am so glad that you are taking the steps that you are, reading, resting, giving yourself the time and space to grieve adn I do wish everyone had that time and space.

Sus, I often have a gathering of a few of ERi's friends, my friends, Jon's friends for ERi's birthday but this year, I am unsure. Michael, Jon adn ERi's Dad died two years ago March 31st, I think he was trying to live until ERi's birthday but the leukemia raged and he died on the 31st and as it turned out, his funeral was on April 4, 2009. It was ERi's 25th birthday. That year, after the funeral, I went to the cemetery to be with ERz on her birthday/her Daddy's funeral day. Anyhow, this year will be played by ear, do what seems best for everyone at the time. I will decorate her tree at the school with my students as I do each year, and I will rush out of school that day to get to the cemetery before it closes after school.

I am reading an excellent book by Chris Cleave called Little Bee. I must quote something the voice of the main character says, it has been said here by many of us over the years, in different ways; A scar is never ugly. That is what the scar makers want us to think, but you and I, we must make an agreement, to defy them. We must see all scars as beauty. Okay? Becasue take it from me, a scar does not form on the dying. A scar means, I survived.

This is how I feel, that our scars, the healing that does occur leaving scars that are our proof to our loved ones lives, proof of the love we have forever inside of us.

[ericasmom]

Yes Sherry, (we posted at the same time) I don't want shoulder pads, nor padding of any kind, nor pantsuits in one piece, nor most of what I am seeing out there, though that which i do love, is Calvin Klein and Anne Klein and I cannot afford it. Ah well, the closet has enough in it for now.

love to you,

dee

[charsng1234]

I do not know how some of you mom's made it so far. My heart is dead I am in so much pain. I can not see no light at the end of this dark hard road!I hate waking up every morning I look forward to sleep hoping shane comes to me in my dreams.. One more hug a chance to say good bye!!I never had that I know this man took aim at my son's head and fired one shot, he claims he was just trying to scare him.. Even though he had to angle his arm to shoot my baby!! I am so sad I just am to tired to do this anymore...

Shanes mom..

[2 Angels in Heaven]

Colleen - I like what you said the other day about "Why do you give this boy any space in your mind" I'm glad your able to take control of who is allowed and not allowed in your brain. I know it's hard to block people out that shouldn't be given the time of day in our lives. I'm usually able to cast away (at lease in my head), those people in my life that hurt me or cause me conflict or heartache. But, it's hard to ignore my daughters boyfriend B/C he has my daughters belongings, those things that were most important to her in her life and he won't let me have them. He threw me out of HER house and said he's keeping everything and if I don't leave he would have me arrested for trespassing. It's a battle! Unfortunately, I really don't have much recourse even though I'm her next of kin. Unless he gets arrested for causing her death. Then maybe, I can collect her things and bring them home. This is a man who started a new relationship one week after her death. So, he occupies much to much space in my brain right now.

Pam - The love for your Dear Son Andy is so touching in your story. I'm glad you were able to find some peace when you lay down at night. You are a strong woman and I have faith you will figure out what to do with your life and fulfill your life mission. You are honoring your son by talking about him and helping others through the grieving process just by being here.

Susannah - I'm glad you have your Grandchildren. No one else will have the patients and understanding to help them through the heartaches they suffered. But you, for you know the pain of losing your child and have learned how precious life is and how short it can be. You will undoubtedly shed your wisdom upon them and cherish them more fondly for they are a part of you.

Dee - I liked what you said about telling my husband that this is who I am now, take it or leave it. You are right we are never the same person they married after going through such a loss. I feel like you do, in that if they can't deal with it and support us then it's time to leave. Hopefully, he will seek alternative ways to help and support me. Especially, since he doesn't listen to what I'm saying I need. The decision is mine to make regarding my grieving and piece of mind. Thank you for your wisdom. BTW, With your suspicions being raised regarding my daughter Vanessa's boyfriend you are right. He has acted guilty of something since she died.

Amy - Thank you for sharing your thoughts & feelings with me. I think when ever there is a blended family there will be problems. I think I'm also angry over things my husband did and said to my girls in the past. Not that anything was really that bad but it was memorable and that hurts. I hope we can help each other through this.

Carol - Thank you for recognizing my needs and being here for me.

Christy - Don't be discouraged if you don't see signs of your son being around you. I feel he is there and watching over you and he hurts for you as you do for him. He knows you love him and he loves you. I believe that all is forgiven when you join the after life and that good out weighs the bad. So don't beat yourself up over those thoughts.

Diane - We are both new to this nightmare, it's been 7 weeks for me losing my two daughters. I also hate it with a passion! Thank you for the encouragement. Your words went strait to my heart. I'm glad you have had the time to yourself to grieve the loss of your son and that you were able to pick yourself up and go out to lunch with your daughter. This really is the worse thing we could ever go through, losing our children. No one could ever understand the magnitude of what we are going through unless it has happen to them. We truly are on a roller coaster of emotions. Thank you for the book recommendation.

Thank you to everyone for the support, love and commitment to help each other.

[dwsmithrn]

this IS the worst, most horrible thing in the world, and, yes, there are days i won't, can't get up...pajamas are pretty comforting these days. i really don't care what i look like anymore....for this x-get-up-get-dressed-put-my-face-on immediately little person, my IDC personality is the NEW ME....and i don't care. anyone who doesn't like it, can go, leave me alone....

i am really feeling like a bad mother this w/e....i know i really could not have stopped nathan in the long run, but what about the short run...could i have done something to keep him here a little longer...gotten him the help he needed, he so deserved. was i not a good enough mother to see that he was hurting way beyond what he was hiding...and why, why did i (his mother) not see the signs? i know he was 32 years old and lived 4 1/2 hours away, but i still talked to him, texted him on a regular basis....where was my brain when these conversations were going on? i just spoke to him 2 days before, on the 19th, his 32nd birthday and he seemed happy, bright and excited about the future and plans we were making for vacations, etc. what was i missing? i can't help but ask these questions. i will forever ask and forever feel the guilt. i don't want to, but they are always lerking in my brain, my heart. it won't stop. i wasn't even there, but i still see his sad face and him at that last moment in time...why do i 'see' this? it is a mightmare picture, and it is just what i have been told...it is in my mind's eye, and i can't get rid of it....i don't know what to do....it is so scary and frightening and a nightmare. i want this nightmare to be over. i can' talk about it to anyone else, but you, here, on this site. it is too disturbing, and you know, no one else would understand.

i asked my husband if i was a bad mother or did i not do enough to let my children know how much i love them? he looked at me and told me i was about the best mother he has ever seen....i hope he didn't just say that to make me feel better...i tried to be a good mother...my kids were my whole life, for 35 years, so far....that is how old the oldest is....the twins will soon be 30....i feel like i am 90, at least.

i want nathan to tell me he forgives me for not caring for him, for not helping him stop hurting, and tell me he is safe and out of pain. i want him to tell me he loves me and he is ok....when will that happen.....

i hate this, this always wondering and always hurting....i hate this new life....

sharon, please don't give up....it hurts, i know...i'm so with you...i hurt so much, too.....please hang in there....can you talk to someone that can hold your hand? if not for this site, i think i would have given in and up a couple of weeks ago....i hung on and i still struggle, every day. it is hard, but i am holding on to the rope a little tighter.

lori, we are all holding on to each other and hoping we can make it together....

all indigos....please help all of us hang in there a little longer...it is too tough for us to go it alone. we are all struggling in our own way and it is surely not easy....we all need each others help.

thanks and hope someone out there can sleep, if only for awhile......diane

[ericasmom]

It IS indeed a nightmare Newbies, to this road, we have had the months and months of 'IS THIS FRIGGIN REAL? HOW COULD THIS BE REAL?" After some time, more like a year or more, we find ourselves in less of a frozen nightmare but at around5 and6 month mark, I could not stop replaying the events of the night that Erica was struck by the train. At first, the replay is necessary I believe, to help us keep one foot in reality when the rest of us wants to go to some other place, we replay the events to make sure that that is the real story in the now surreal world you are in, and also to replay to do all the what-ifs related to the event...what if I had kept Eri on the phone a bit longer then maybe she wouldn't have left the house when she did preventing the sequence of events that took her life...what if she had phone-ordered her sandwich from Jimmy-Johns as her friend suggested then none of this would have happened, I would have never known then, that there were such things as grief websites. I replayed for all those waht -if scenarios adn many more until I felt haunted by them.My mind could not stop the replay and in fact, the replay was on a loop that I could no longer turn off and so that is when I went to therapy. I needed to have someone help me see what I was doing and find my way back to having some control on me. I know I have no control on the world, on my family and friends, but I needed to find my way back to me, to developing my self control again. I tend to be a very anxious woman anyway, worry about the what-ifs in life, and so after ERica was killed I really needed to learn again what it was to self talk, to change the picture in my brain, to redirect my energy. I did, not that it was easy and certainly not that I don't each day know the sequence that occurred in our lives that took my Girl, but I no longer feel compelled to watch the reruns all the time. It is engraved in my soul, in my DNA, it is forever, I get that, but I was able after a time, to make the good picutres run in my minds eye, the happy memories, the treasured past, but not to live in it, just allowing some time to visit there. Letting go of some of the horror allowed more room for the sweet. You are all too early on this trip to do this but it can and will happen one day when you are ready. We all grieve differently as far as time and whether or not we go back to work and will it be the same job? So many factors involved and they only reveal themselves to us as we go, we cannot predict the next phase of grief. So hang on to that rope, that thread that we all share, we are here to hold you and let you learn to breathe in the stores of hope we leave here each day for us all. There is nothing easy about this, and when My Son asked why do I attend the grief website still I said, it feels like a purpose set before me, it is something I can do...all of us do here, reach out in the darkest times in others lives, and lend our light, our hope and the hope and love of all of our Children. In so doing, we emerge a family of wounded survivors, lighting the world with hope.

Sus, how are your knees? Funny, well not really, but my knees and ankles were aching yesterday, and I thought it the residual of this cold that husband now has...icky cold. Feel better.

[aim630]

Carol-I think that was Crystal (Ashlee's mom) who said her son got to go to spring training, and in the clubhouse with the players. My daughter Katie would have loved to do that though (although maybe not seeing the naked ballplayer!). We are going to Opening Day for the Indians next Friday, I'm hoping it warms up before then. It's been about 30 degrees today! Supposed to be about 50 on Friday...I hope you have a good time at the Red Sox opening day & hope it is warmer for you also! That doctor needs a lesson in bedside manners. Telling a young child so harshly he needs to lose weight, and not addressing him about his skin problem. I have had excema on and off since I was a teenager. It seemed to flare up when we moved into a new house, and I think I was allergic to something. I had patches of red, itchy skin on my face and scalp, and I was miserable as well as self-conscious about it. I hope Cathi is able to find Jamie a new doctor who will take care of his problem.

Lori-I'm so sorry you have those suspicions about Vanessa's boyfriend, but it sounds pretty suspicious to me too. Especially since he had a new girlfriend within a week. I can't believe he will not let you have her things. You don't need that added stress on top of everything else. The summer before Ashley got sick, she moved out of her boyfriend's apartment into my mom's house, but dumped most of her stuff in our basement. It's still all there, although slowly I've been going through it. I really hope you are able to recover some of her things, why would he even want to keep it?

Diane-Please don't feel like a bad mother. Although none of us were perfect, I really think we did the best we could and our kids knew we loved them. I feel a lot of guilt myself, so I do understand though. I was with Ashley when her heart stopped and I keep reliving it over and over, but as the past year has gone by, I've been able to stop the thought before I let it consume me. Some of the other moms have said as time goes by we will be able to relive the good moments more than the bad. I hope that's true. My daughter Katie posted this on facebook today, and I believe she was talking about Ashley: Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened. =] I think it's actually a Dr. Seuss quote. Maybe someday we'll get there.

Sharon-Hang in there...I know it's difficult. The pain never really stops, but it does got softer. People told me that last year, and I didn't believe them. Just come here & write down your thoughts and feelings, and know that we're all here for you.

Thinking of everyone tonight,

Amy/Ashley's mom

[aim630]

Dee-You posted the same time I did. You have such good advice to share. I'm sorry you have to be here, but I'm glad that you are still here to help all of us through this. Your words, as well as those of Susannah, Carol, Betty, Betsy, Colleen, Trudi, Lorri & Sherry (and others, I know I forgot someone), have helped me get through the past year.

Amy/Ashley's mom

[rlolheiser]

We got a call from the lawyer yesterday to tell us there is a case against the Ford company, but that they don't want to take it because it will be to time consuming. The van that was in an accident came up with a recall for the cruise control increasing without notice. Anyway.. they told us to look for another lawyer... I want to give up, but my daughter wants to continue it, It would be nice to be able to put a stone up with any proceeds for JaBoa, but I don't know if I can handle it. My mother is a big part of the case and I am not sure she can handle it, she isn't able to speak of our girl without crying. My daughter wants so much to prove she didn't cause the accident, that she didn't kill our girl... me.. I just want her back.. after 4 and a half years I still wait to wake up ... but I know I won't.

I love to read all of you my friends, you lift me up when I need lifting, and you bring me back to reality when I need to face it. I see all the pain in your hearts, and I watch the healing.. I watch the friendships form.. and think.. the angels are hard at work bringing us together watching over us making sure we aren't alone.

I am still so lost without the tears, I hate it, I get so close and it stops... I can see people waiting for them.. but they don't come. Used to be I couldn't type without tears, now there are just the questions again.. why?.. and I also know they will never be answered. My mind wanders about why our children were taken and why at the age they are... would it have been easier if they were older or younger.. and I realize it doesn't matter because we think of the dreams they had.. the dreams we had for them.. and the knowledge that they won't happen hurts our souls.. It has changed each of us from what we were, I know I am such a different person.. I grow weary, I have 8 grandchildren counting JaBoa, and my son.. and I fear to get close to them, but the grandma in me can't hide.. I can't help but think JaBoa expects more of me and I don't know why. I can do only so much.. I wish she would talk with me.. but I don't see signs anymore.. I don't even hear the kids talking about her anymore.. I have a hard time thinking it is over so permanently.. nothing of her is here anymore.. her blanket that I sleep with and her teddy bear dont' even have that special scent anymore.. or maybe I have forgotten it.. but I swear I will never forget her, my sweet 10 year old angel.. How I miss her

I got to rambling.. I know you all forgive me... I know I don't need forgiving too... I just needed to talk awhile.. it is kind of quiet tonight..mom's sleeping, kids are watching a movie.. I wish I could sleep... been going through insomnia again... sure hope it passes

I hope your all doing well tonight.. Diane, Dee, Betty, Betsy, Coleen, Lorri, Sharon, Amy, Susannah, Trudi, Carol, Sherry, Pam, Christy, and everybody else I haven't mentioned.. not forgot.. just getting old

[ericasmom]

Amy, those of us who have continued on after many years have many reasons to stay, one of them is the comradery and sense of family that is built time and again s folks arrive in new anguish, and for me, another reason is to shine a bit of light the way it was shone for me when I arrived. After year three, I left for a time as I could not handle any more sadness. The new arrivals made me hurt anew and I had lost five old friends in that time since Erz died. I returned to therapy to find more strength and when I felt stronger again, I returned here and have stayed. Your words have reached my heart on many occasions and I am made to drop tears at the warm welcome you and the others have given to those just behind you on this road. Your words of support and comfort have allowed many to come here and know that they were in the right place.

I am excited for you and Katie to be going to the home opener, wear your long-johns. Did Katie find a dress for prom?

Leah, I am sorry that the lawyer is not able to take the case and finding another lawyer and going forward with it sounds mighty hard on you my friend as well as the household. You will have to do what you can to be best for you Leah. I know it would be nice to have a case won and money to erect a stone fit for the little Beauty but not at the expense of your health. JaBoa knows that you are always in her corner Leah. I know that your Daughter would like to feel that she did not cause the accident, could she then pursue the lawyer in her defense?Is there a class action suit against Ford? it may be possible for your daughter to find the information out . I sure do wish that you would be able to sleep deeply tonight, no bad dreams, just deep sleep. Wishes to you.

[mikesmomrs]

Amy, thanks for the reboot to my memory...it was Crystal. I am glad that you and Katie are going to the opener in your area. Cathi (my daughter) was supposed to go, but because of all the time off she's had to take with her back surgery last summer and Jamie's being sick for almost a month this winter, she doesn't have the time to take off. So, I had to sell her ticket. Mike's friend, Denis, is still going, though. We will have a good time, though I will really miss Cathi being with me. Cathi and I have tickets for the week after the opener...so we will just delay our "party." I think we need to heed Dee's suggestion, though, to wear our longjohns...I can't see it warming up that much, although last year it did and it was a lovely, warm day.

Crystal, I am very glad that Ethan got to be around the players, etc. It must have been truly exciting for him. Thank you for sharing.

Sherry: thank you for your kind words.

Dee: I love hearing about your visits with your sisters and nieces...I imagine it would be terribly hard to not think about Eri's being there and what she would be like now, older and more mature...I wish I could bump into your "loud selves" as you go about your fun evening together!

Beth: Good luck with the counseling sessions...

Trud: I hope you are managing through your hectic weekend, and the new week finds you traveling back to the comfort of your special place by the ocean. Thank you, my friend, for all of your support and caring.

Sharon and Diane...it is so wonderful that you can reach out to each other---Diane, your asking Sharon to "not give up," to "hold on" in the newness and piercing pain of your own tragedy--- you are offering comfort to each other...and that is what BI is all about...we are here for each other, as we "leave stores of hope behind us," as Dee has said, and this is the promise of sharing...caring, supporting. Lori---you also are reaching out to others and offering comfort, as you experience the serious pain of your own that comes with the newness of this journey...

Sus: I read of your possible vacation with Gary...it would be so awesome to meet...if you come to New Hampshire, we will have to meet up. I would love to meet your daughter, as well. I am sorry about the problems you are having with your knees...I hope the meds help you out. Warm soaks help, too. So sorry to hear about your MIL...I do hope your children are able to come for the services...even in sad times, it is good to have the family together.

Being here can sometimes be so painful as we read of the pain of others who are new to this sad journey, but the rewards of seeing the words of wisdom offer comfort that is received, and the passing of time bringing healing are many...so sad that any of us have to be here, but "here" is the "soft spot" in our journey..."here" is where we heal.

Betty, Betsy, Sherry, Lorri (how did Kody do at the race tonight?), Leah, Pam, Christy, Colleen, take care all, and find rest and wishing you a peace-filled moment that holds your heart in a warm embrace, even if only for a short time.

[mikesmum]

I want nathan to tell me he forgives me for not caring for him, for not helping him stop hurting, and tell me he is safe and out of pain. i want him to tell me he loves me and he is ok....when will that happen.....

i hate this, this always wondering and always hurting....i hate this new life.

There are many times when my heart wonders, did he know I would have taken his pain away if only I knew how. Does he forgive me for not being able to? The brain and the heart are at war and many times, in pj's I given in and allow the battle to rage.....

This from Melissa's writing for Micheals service....

I wish I could have seen your face one last time. I keep expecting you to ring to tell me what went wrong. I know how much you loved me, I hope you know that I loved you the same. ..... To me you were my blood, my childhood, a gret uncle, father, brother and son. An artist and musician. A caring soul whose physical heart may have been flawed but no one can deny that you were all heart. I love you Micheal, I wish I could have taken your pain away before this. Rest in eternal peace with Nanna.

Melissa's word reflect so much my feelings, she gets it. Love you Micheal Shane.

[Guest msnher]

Lori - Before I forget, I want to give a shout out for the effort it took for you to write our names and respond to each of us.....and, in so doing, I don't want you to feel pressure (nor pressure anyone else) to do it again. At this stage of grief it is difficult for you to hold a cognitive thought, let alone put forth the effort to write each our names. I just want to say I noticed and it made me smile.

Having said that, I don't have the brain power to go back and respond to each one, myself, lately. Not sure what's up with that. I open two screens so I can remember who I'm talking to and I lose my place and/or forget and/or lose interest in trying to find my place again and just exit. But, I am reading everyone's posts. I just can't remember what you said. Perhaps I need to get checked for alzheimers....seriously.

My knees give me problems, no doubt. But, the main source of irritation these days rests in my hips. Time to call the doctor and get them fixed. Need energy for courage. I'm such a coward. Maybe you were having sympathy pains for me Dee.

Carol if we make it there this summer we will definitely make a point to get together with you. I, too, would love to meet Ralph, Cathi and all your family. I feel like I know them already.

Sigh....I just sat here for ten minutes with my mind wandering...Maybe I should bury Stephanie's ashes so others have a place to go visit her. I'm selfish enough to just keep her all to myself where I know she's safe. But what brought that thought on was wondering how Venessa's boyfriend can even keep her things from you, Lori.

Well, I keep typing and deleting. Afraid of missing someone and I don't want to slight anyone here. you all mean so much to me. I feel the same way you do, Amy, about Dee and Sherry....being here helping light the way.

Karen, I miss you....how are you doing? Perhaps you're posting and I've already forgotten. I know I saw Shawn's face recently.

Back to bed. Love to you all! Oh....Leah...I send hugs and prayers to you my friend.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[hotrod]

Good Morning Indigos

Sharon, Diane, Lori, Christy, and all new Indigos I am so glad you are here and feel safe enough to express you sadness and pain As Dee, Carol and now Amy have pointed out this is exactly how this terrible unending torture morphs and becomes softer and more manageable. Albeit it does sink deeper and does seem more eternal. I believe that it has expanded my ability to feel compassion and empathy and to forgive. Amy's words today were powerful and so very true.

I know without my Indigo family I would not be able to leave the house today or even have a social CONVERSATION WITH ANYONE but yesterday I did go to another Opera and walked in Central Park Something I could not even imagine doing a few years ago.

Dee is so right on when she explains that this "Indigo Family: feels like family and the connection is important. In fact this Indigo family is more supportive and welcoming than my own family.

Sherry yes the spring is trying to spring forth in the City but the cold is hard to manage My little squirrel is still running about and we are speculating if she will again become a mom It is that time of year again

Trudie I loved the words spoken at Micheal's service Oh so true

Betsy, Lorrie, Leah In my prayers

Take good care of yourselves Indigos In my thoughts always

[crystalann]

Good morning all I hope you all got sleep last night!I find myself some times getting up in the middle of the night and just standing in the kitchen.I did venture out Friday I went grocery shopping made sure I went hungry so I bought alot. noone should tell me they are hungry for awhile! Last night I drove to Reno to visit my oldest and her lil family.Sent Lucy and Chelsea to the movies. Then went shopping for movies for the house.I took my grand son lil Will shopping got him a cute Gillagan hat and a little boat to match plus lots more. then dinner at Panda express.We all did pretty good only a few tears. I wish I had a real computer not this phone then I could reply to posts but I cant see them when I post I can barly see the last two lines I write. Love to all of you! You have been my light in this darkness. Thank you!!!!! Hope every one gets a little peace today!! LOVE, CRYSTAL

[Guest msnher]

Betty - Going to the opera! Do you dress formal? On Broadway? How exciting! I'm not a fan of opera although I like Paul Potts. I am a fan of the idea of dressing up and going to the opera, however. Sounds royal.

Crystal - I'm impressed that you read from your phone at all. I must be ADHD because text messages or reading that small print just puts me in a bad mood. I lose patience with it. My husband, Gary, is flying into Reno on the first. He'll rent a car and drive to Carson to see his new grandson. I'm glad you were able to enjoy your daughter and grandchildren. How old is Lil Wil? He must look adorable in his gilligan hat!

[crystalann]

Will reply right away so I know what I just read. Lil Will is 7 1/2 Mos now.Strange writing that last I remember he was 5 mons. Lost some time there and at that age its alot to miss. Carson City is about a half hour away from me. Alot of the kids that graduate here end up there or Reno.To small of a town for older ones I guess. It truly is a small world huh. Oh and I wouldnt be able to read if it wasnt for my dollar store glasses

[dwsmithrn]

dee, amy, carol, trudi, sus....thank you all for the words of encouragement....i am here, at least i did wake up...which means i did get some sleep. i have a hard time falling asleep....i take cat-naps during the night, wake up, do some crying and thinking, then go back to sleep for awhile...my best sleep comes inthe early hours of the morning....then i am up again for the day. is 12:15 and i am still in pj's....oh well. what can i do? it is my heartbreak mentality right now.

i think all-in-all, i am ok, at least i am still here...and that's all i can think about myself now...i only have nathan on my mind for the most part. everything else will just have to wait. i don't feel anything else is important....well, i guess when my children call, i have to put on that 'mom-face/voice' to let them know i am still their mom. even though they know i am still in that dark and sad place.

leah, i am sorry you are feeling so sad. i wish i could help you feel better, but i don't know how to do that. just know i am thinking about you. i think that's all i can do for most of you at this point in my "journey"....sounds so strange and foreign...don't know if i want to have a 'journey'....do i have to?

hope you all have as peaceful of a day as possible. hoe it's possible, i have no idea...haven't figured that out myself yet, but i'm offereing it to you.

love, diane

[westleysmom]

Carol-Both my kids had terrible skin on their arms and legs, but it wasn't exzema, although I had that at at younger age. It makes you so self-conscious, I'm so sorry that Jamie's dr is a jerk. When something like that happens its so hard to find your voice, I'm glad Cathi wrote a letter when she found hers again.

Sherry-I still think of the picture in my mind of Lisa in her little dress with the button undone at the neck, isn't that how you dreamed her? That's what I kept from your description a few months back, and it comes to me from time to time. Isn't that odd that I keep that memory that isn't even mine, never even really happened? You described it so well, I hope you don't feel that I've hijacked something that belongs only to you, I'm sorry if it feels that way.

Leah-Think of you all the time and hope that you are doing okay. Is it warming up there yet? We're a little cool this weekend and coming week forecast is cooler than it was for a while, but still March-y for TN.

Went yesterday to the workhouse for another visit with CJ. Still the only visitor, as long as I'm the only one who shows up, I'll schedule to visit the next week so he'll be sure and have a visitor. If I get there and friends are ther, I'll keep my visit short since he can only have 30 minutes with up to 3 visitors. His birthday is this week, will be 21 on Wednesday. I told him I'd send a card if it wouldn't cause trouble, you know how guys are. He said he didn't think it would cause a problem, I think he just really wants a birthday card. I don't know how often he gets them, if ever. I never got to buy Westley one for his 21st, I usually try to buy all my cards for the month near the first of the month, but we'd had a lot going on, so I didn't get around to it that January. I have just been really sad these past few days, feeling like I'm drowning in the sadness and can't reach anything to pull myself out of it, ready to let it fill my lungs. I just couldn't do church this morning, I really feel like I don't get it there anymore. When they say "God is good" I think to myself, sometimes and sometimes not. And it makes me feel like a bad person, which I may very well be, but I can do without a reminder. I know there are people there who have had really bad things happen to them too, losses of children and spouses and health and that I'm not the only one, but you know what? The only loss I have to reconcile myself to is mine, and I just haven't been able to do that yet, so where they are with their's doesn't really have that much to do with me, except maybe to demonstrate that it can be done. I hope you all are having as good a day as you can, think of you even when I don't have the heart to post.

[Guest msnher]

tidbit of freakish information about me....I like shoulder pads and big hair..

[dwsmithrn]

rhonda... i feel the same way about church... (and god, right now)....don't know if i ever will darken the doors again....it is my pain and my loss and the fact that "god cares" doesn't exactly make me feel better....in my book, he didn't have to take him away....he could have saved him, and he didn't...so, how 'good' is god? not very good in my opinion...maybe someday i can come to terms with it and go a different direction with it,.,,,but, not today...

everyone always says, i'm praying for you and your family...i always, say, yeah, ok, whatever. they just look at me with their mouths open....but, what i feel is what i feel....can't take it away from me. how can praying for me take the pain away? they have no idea what kind of pain we are dealing with and how long the pain is with us (a lifetime), so how can praying for us make us 'all better', just like that. and, let's be honest here, they might say a prayer once or twice, then they go on to their lives and forget about us....am i right, or not? or at least that is what i think....they have other pressing matters in their lives, we deal with this day in and day out....night after night...it never goes away....it ever so impolitely stuck in our hearts, our souls, our thoughts forever....no amount of prayer can take it from us....

sorry if i have offended anyone....i used to be 'that' christian, i just can't find myself anymore, not now.

diane

[dwsmithrn]

sus...despite my rant, you made me smile

diane

[Guest msnher]

Diane - Glad I made you smiled. I have more where that came from...but, I'll save it for another day...like the time I superglued my shoes to my feet...on purpose.

About God. The fact that God could have saved Stephanie and didn't made him just as guilty as if he had killed her...in my book...then..not how I feel now. I think begin angry at God is part of the process however.

[Guest msnher]

being angry - not begin angry.

[dwsmithrn]

yes, i figured that out....

[andy88]

Just got over a crying spell. Feeling better now. How long does this go on? I'm tired of crying. Feeling blessed to have such a supportive family...my cousins just left from a lovely weekend visit.

[Guest msnher]

Andy's mom (Pam?) It goes on for a while. Never really goes away, but it will slow down. My daughter just called (she and Steph were best friends) she just had a crying spell herself and said she felt better. In the beginning crying didn't make me feel better. It all just hurt. Now, after a good cry I can feel better...drained, but relieved too. It's important not to stuff it, though. That just makes it feel worse. Let the tears fall.

[dwsmithrn]

pam...i still cry all the time, day and night....there are breaks in between, but sometimes, it just comes...can't stop it, and don't want to. seems right now, i like my tears. then it just dries up and i can't say i feel better, i am just sad all the time....9 weeks for me and it seems like yesterday. on the other hand, the days are slow and the nights are long. so, i know there is a long road ahead of us....i sm so sorry we are here....i am so sorry.....diane, nathan's mom, always and forever.

[mysonrich]

Such sorrow lately. Here at BI and in “real time”. After speaking to my brother a few evenings ago I just had to hide from life. I couldn't even bring myself to feel. I couldn't take the pain,the thoughts I was having,the sorrow for my brother. His son,Pat,died 12 years ago from cancer. Now his wife. Laura was Pat's mommy during that time. They had custody of both boys. One of my memories of Pat, “ I love you Laura”.she replied that she loved him to.

So Diane, I went to sleep the other night after speaking to brother and slept till 5. Not my usual sleep pattern. I also sleep off and on since Rich died. I'm just asleep and then awake. Sometimes I stay awake,sometimes I try to go back to sleep. It feels like sleeping in shifts.

Rhonda, I have a birthday card here for Rich. I don't remember now if I purchased it for his 21^st birthday or he never received it for his 20^th. Being with the g/f and living with her , I called him one day shortly after his birthday and asked him to join me and Sarah for dinner. He brought the g/f of course,it was fine by me . During the course of the evening I told him that we never celebrated his birthday,the reason for this evening. G/f replied that they had a party. Me and Rich locked eyes. No feelings but I felt his family should have been included even for a short time if it was a mostly” friends, beer drinking” party. So, I have his card. I will always have his card.

Betty, I have never been to the opera. I think of the scene form “ Pretty Woman” and the words of Richard Geer, something along the line of either you love it or you don't. Maybe someday I'll find out if I love it or not.

Pam, so sorry for the reason that you are here. Andy certainly is a handsome young man with a bright smile and shining eyes.

Forgive me for forgetting who asked about thinking weird thoughts. Of course we most likely all do. One of mine is that of people born in 1988. My niece was born in 1988 . She is 20 years old. A members child here was born in 1988, I questioned why he is 22 years old. Rich is forever 20 so my mind thinks , when doing the math,that all born in 1988 are 20 years old. I'm sure I'll learn to recalculate soon enough.

Its a bright sunny day today but still cold for end of March.

For those of you looking for signs. My heart tree. I looked up one day and there it was. There all along. I hurt to much to see it.

[ericasmom]

So, I have his card. I will always have his card.

Betsy, those words skipped in my heart, I sure get that sense of forever having something that never got to be shared with Erica. I am definitely feeling the loudness of the quiet day, the loud is my heart saying...remember two years ago, you were thinking you were going to have a spring break but Michael got sicker adn you spent 5 days in the hospital with him and the weekend was his funeral. How could Michael be gone two years now. I miss him, the daddy to my kids, and his funeral was on ERi's birthday. His way of being with eri for her 25th.

Betsy, I am so sorry for the pain and suffering that your brother and his wife and you are going through. My heart to you dear.

[mysonrich]

Yes, Dee. It is hard to believe. I remember . How is your son? Seems he travels often. Spoke to my brother a couple hours ago. She is starting to die. I would have to guess that Pat and Rich will be there to greet her as Erica was there to greet her dad.

[daveydow1]

Diane-----You said that Nathan is on your mind all the time. I, too, thought of nothing but my son all the time...24/7.

I believe that early on this lousy road we're on.....a berieved parent can think of nothing else.....and that it is our

new 'normal'. I guess the mind needs lots of time to deal with the tragic loss of a child, and cannot, or will not

take it in all at once. I'm so sorry for all the pain you are in.

Carol------You know....I'm still mad at that skin Dr. who was so very heartless and mean to Jamie. How could

she look herself in the mirror and know that she hurt a child who is already having a hard time of it ? I guess

doctors like that don't have much of a heart to begin with. I can so understand Cathi's reaction of just getting

the prescriptions and leaving. She may have been stunned that a Dr. would be so mean. I hope that if she

goes to another doctor, that it will be a totally different experience for Jamie......a nice Dr. who will talk to him

and explain things to him. I wish them good luck.

Rhonda-----Oh, friend......it just warms my heart that you remember my short little dream of Lisa.....Thanks so

much for remembering. About church.......I, too, am finding myself somewhat religiously "afloat" since my

David died. It seems as though some churches (including my own) are getting obsessed with wanting donations

for all sorts of things.......wanting to get bigger and add new building areas etc. I feel, in a way, that my church is

getting away from the 'basics', while still claiming they are not getting far afield of the basic principles.

I don't know.........like I said.....I'm religiously afloat as far as church attendance is concerned. People give what they can,

but still get many appeals for more & more. I'm confused---I never used to question this.

Dee------I agree.....there are some very nice clothing brands out there now, but as you say......they are pricey.

AND.......padding of any kind......most women don't need that....(including me) I certainly hope they never

reintroduce that fashion nightmare. What were they thinking ???

Betty-----Oh, I bet the little squirrel will soon be getting a new brood. As you say......it's that time of year. Spring is

trying hard to appear here, but it's still COLD.

PEACE TO ALL INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[dwsmithrn]

sherry...i guess the body just does what it has to do to survive, and we really have no control over it...that is why the 'outsiders' can't tell us what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and how to 'move on', because they have no idea that we are not actually in control of our actions or thoughts at this time. it is all so confusing and frustrating to us, not just to the outsiders...we can't cope with our loss, so how would the outsiders even consider trying to deal with us? and, i just wish they would leave me alone to let me deal with it by myself....my one good friend gets it, as well as she can, but she is doing a great job of it....my daughter is coming around a little better....my husband is supportive and loving, but everyone else, well, i would just rather be alone, to do it my way....there is alot to be said with being alone, and i don't mind it at all. it actually feels right to be alone so i can cry, scream, yell and just do nothing at all, if that is what i feel like doing. i have no one to answer to and that makes me most comfortable. some day, maybe, i will be able to get up and do something or darken the doors to the outside world...but, i have no idea what is out there for me. doesn't feel right anymore.

i watched a celtic music program on tv today....nathan's favorite and part of the service we had for him....and of course, more tears....then i saw an att cell phone commercial, that is what he had...and even that made me cry....what has my world turned into....what has nathan done to me? nathan, nathan, nathan....i ask him, but he doesn't answer me....

i hate so much he was so sad and i couldn't help him, my baby boy....

diane, nathan's forever sad mom

[dwsmithrn]

i sent nathan a b'day card with a check in it...we gave him guitar lessons to go along with the guitar we gave hime for christmas....when we spoke to him on his birthday (1-19-11), he was all excited about the lessons and was eager to schedule the first lesson on friday (1-21-11)...he said he would call me back on friday and let me know how it went. he said he would have fun surprising patrick, jr (my 10-y/o grandson who plays/sings like a 16 y/o--he's quite amazing!) in june at the family reunion....there he was talking about the future....he never scheduled that lesson....he never even cashed that b'day check....i never found the b'day card...nathan wasn't one for keeping that kind of stuff, so i'm sure after he read it, he tossed the card. we never did find it.

so many things surrounding this even SUCK!!!.. i don't know what happened to my nathan, i don't know what changed him overnight. i have so many unanswered questions and that is why my brain won't shut off....never, ever will it leave me alone....it just won't quit....my brain is a scary place now....

i think about when i go back to work and how i will manage to even think straight and get things right....how will my brain think right to do my job? i'm not sure i can even do what i've been doing for over 20 years.....i am really afraid....

just me, rambling on again.....

[crystalann]

birthday cards:( About 3 weeks after I decided to dust the tv around Tylers picture. I notices a big envelope pick it up inside was Tylers death cert. I started crying then look up and noticed Tylers birthday card was sitting under that envelope it was strange cause his birthday is July 4th I dont know why it was still there none of the others just the one from mom and dad. I picked it up still crying and read what I wrote. 18 Now your old but we are still proud of you!! I miss him so much! I still cry all the time when I do get little stuff done it makes me so tired I have to go take a nap. Does this tired feeling ever go away? My heart goes out to all! Even though it is in peices. LOVE , CRYSTAL

[ericasmom]

Betsy, I am sure that Rich and Patrick will be there, she will see them, hold onto them as they help her to the next level of this sequence...she will be free of pain and sorrow at that point, knowing that she can be with her beloved SON and Nephew too, and all others that went before her. I know though, that the ache will be deep in your Brother's heart, left here to find his way through so many sad times. My thoughts go with him as he uses his courage and his broken heart to let his love, Laura, go.

Jonathan is doing okay, he does like to take road trips, good memory on your part. He and Shannon went to Louisianna to see her Father and he had a great time told me I needed to eat blackened alligator. Hmmmm. Right now I am making chicken soup, a big batch as John husband has the awful cold, and Jonathan has it too. So a big batch and I will bring some to Jon and Shan tomorrow. It is always better the next day anyhow. It smells good, chicken, potatoes, carrots, turnips, celery, spices, corn and tomatoes too. I can smell it upstairs here where I sit with all of you. It is sunny and blueskies, but cold, never above 35 today. But that sun is lovely adn I am thankful for that as a cloudy day today may have tipped me over to the dark side.

Crystal, I do think that finding both the death certificate along with Tyler's birthday card was a sign for you. A full life no matter how short, his birth and his death there in one stack, and the words you said to him in his card, lovely. He knows of your deep adn everlasting love Crystal, he always will. I am sure that all of our Chidlren would have liked to not have us so sad, but I also believe taht they completely understand our ache and anguish. your broken heart is still so full of love.

Diane, I am sure that there isn't one of us here that has not also been on 24/7 in thinking of the tragic circumstances, it is unfortunately part of it all, but as far as your going back to work, try not to worry now about it. You have no way of knowing if it will feel right or not at this point, so instead of worrying about it, try to say to yourself, if it feels right, I will do it, if not, I will have to figure something else out. I know that when Eri died, July of 2003, I thought that I never would teach again, but my boss came to the hospital, (she had been ERi's 4th grade teacher and is the principal now) and she drove from Chicago to Kalamazoo Michigan to say goodbye, but she said, just try going back in the classroom in late August, and if it works for you great, if not, I will get a long term substitute and we will work from there. That was good advice for me, it allowed me to not make a decision at that time, and it also allowed me the freedom to find out at the appropriate time. You may find that being at work feels like a good diversion and that you are able to do the work required.

[shorty16]

Good evening Indigos,

Not much energy to read all the chat!!

Just popped in to say Hello.

Cold here, but the sun is out and so am I.

Take care my friends

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[kmb22]

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