Loss of an Adult Child

[daniellemom]

Hi everyone!  I'm back from vacation and we had a very nice time.  I know I have a lot to catch up on so I will do that over the next couple of days. 

Kathy - So sorry I missed telling you here Happy Birthday Jessica, but her name was written in the sand and I told her happy birthday.

Carol - How is Ralph, my prayers are with you all and I so hope Cathi's surgery goes well. 

To the newcomers - I'm so sorry you have a reason to be here but this site saved my life with I first found it.  There are wonderful smart full of wisdom Mom's and Dad's here to listen and cheer you on when you think you can't do this one more day.

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

 

[mikesmum]

Betty - love that squirrel.  Walking from Buck Palace (the place where Betty the queen is) we found squirrels in the park....never had seen one before...looks just like yours and they were friendly.  Probably some lovely lady like yourself feeding them.

Checked in on Carol and Ralph.  He seems to be improving day by day, little by little.  

Seeing all the new posts, there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said and nothing I can say will magically make everything the way it was. 

Elaine - You're right how do they miss a 19yr old 100yrds from the last known sighting...I am looking at your boys picture and love the puppy hug...

Having said that, here is the place to be - with those who know, who get it.  Each story ends with - I lost my child, and that in itself is enough.

Start Calligraphy class today.  Trying to ignite a part of the brain that I rarely used.  The practical, focussed intellect can stay in the jar.....It -2c here for those sweating it out.  Muttley has his jumper, I have gloves so we will walk now before class.

As for thankyou notes...well my mum died just over a year before Micheal.  So protocol was set.  I was in tune with what was required for an 80yr old who was going home to dad, not for a 31yr old son who should be here raising his daughter.

There is an new ad to hopefully address the number of young drivers killed by speed.  Its theme is the ripple affect, how so many are affected by the loss of a young person.  They interview the family, the emerg workers, the footy coach etc.  One interview with the mum hit me the hardest....."how do you choose a coffin for your son".......

This is what I sent for Micheal.............

 

[krichie]

I have had a rough day to day as well, maybe just reaching out to you all is bringing things to surface for me to face.

Yesturday seemed like a normal day till I decided to cook American Chop suey and as I was cooking I got the memory of cooking a huge pile of it gfor a football banquet for Richie many years ago-so of course I broke down and other memories came to the surface.

I still have a couple months before the 1 year mark, I really don't know how I will handle that cause everytime I really think of how much time has past without Richie I loose it.

We have had to go thru other issues with his death- his girlfriend was pregnant and has since given birth to his son- who she promised wopuld be named after him but was not and he is now 4 months old and we only saw him at the hospital. She has been very mean and hateful, I don't understand I paid her rent for 7 months along with her car insurance and other bills so she would not have to worry and out of the blue she starts talking and doing awefull things at first I blamed it on grief but I am unfortunatly seeing the real her.

The Mother of Richies little girl in the mean time has been awesome- we get our granddaughter every weekend and I feel i could talk to her about anything but do not want to create that type of relationship yet. She keeps me informed on Dr apptments and lets me go becuase the little girl has kidney problems and will need a transplant probably when she is in her teens.

So alot of issues on my plate.

So sorry we are all here but appriciate that others understand

 

[ericasmom]

Krichie,

I am sorry for the full-plate you have on top of the absolute ache of grief. Can you tell us about Rich? Perhaps you have and I missed a day somehow, but I don't know aobut your Boy. I think that when we have a few new to the site at around the same time, My heart/head have a hard time separating everyone. Forgive me.

Dee

[josephsmom90]

Dee,

I think Joseph was about 11 in that picture. Sassy, I got when she was a yr old, is now 13 and still lives with me. She is SO smart and Jospeh laid claim to her when he was growing up. To this day if I ask Sassy "where's Joseph" she looks around, perks her ears up. Then I have to shut up. I am bummin today. Like I said there isn't anyone to hang out with, visit, socalize. It's not like I can go take a class in whatever, they are not offered here. I volunteer but that is not in a group type capacity. I guess folks here have thier friends/family and are wrapped up with that. So here I sit being depressed. Making potato salad for one sucks.

[josephsmom90]

Mikesmum,

Ya I know and I asked them. Of course they said he probably just surfaced within the last 24 hours. Uhuh, sure, well I'd called and talked to the head of missing persons the day before, and asked if they searched the shoreline, they said they did. Well that SAME night was when Steve and Micahel saw 'something' in the pond and then Micahel and Daniel went out the next day and Micahel walked straight to JOseph! Then the cops had the nerve to ask, say 'why didn't Steve call us that Wend night?" Like what difference would that have made and why do you even need to say that. Other than you are INCOMPETENT!

[josephsmom90]

Thank you Sherry! I am sorry for your loss. I am just kind of melting today. Refusing to turn the AC on to save money on power. Besides it's only about 86 in the house and it should start to cool off soon. Ususally 80 inside doesn't bother my metal laden body. I do want ice cream, just the thought of going to town to get it turns me off.. I don't want to run into anyone who knows me, they might ask how I am... ha, I might tell them!

[josephsmom90]

Betsy,

I know what you mean about waiting so long for the report! I thought three months was bad though!! Then there are the 'other' reports, and one they wont let anyone have. It is an interview but we are not allowed to know with who. Due to 'privacy' laws, now I don't get that one at all. I mean the determined his death was accidental drowning, who and why does anyone need to be protected in regards to privacy? As it was it took the investigator 42 days before he even called people who knew Joseph, and the last one who was with him, his roommate, Kacey. Three months later Kacey tried to hang himself, and no one knows why. Think I'll go out and smoke.

Elaine

[mikesmomrs]

Thank you notes....'not done....nuf ced.  ('nuf ced" is a phrase from the victory song of the Red Sox, "Tessie"...it refers to the serious irritation felt by the season ticket holders from Fenway Park that the park had sold all the "season ticket" seats out from under them before the holders got there for the world series---I think it was 1913, but not sure...the season ticket holders got so upset that they "moved the game" down the street to another field!---I wished I could have "moved this funeral and death" to another part of the universe, but couldn't...neither could I write thank you notes.  It did cross my mind, as with my generation that was a given for anything...but, no, I could not.  And Sarah (Mike's wife) did not want to even talk about them...  

Premonitions...another area of thought...when Mike was five, I knew I would outlive him.  I do not know how...there were no words...it was just one day...the thought with no words came through my brain and I knew.  At that moment, I looked up at the sky and said "You will certainly have to get me through that, I have to believe that You know what You are doing...."  Then, the thought stayed in my heart, unspoken, for years, until we heard the doctor say to Mike:  "Mr. Johnston, You have terminal cancer; this is serious, this is fatal, there is no cure."  Mike came very, very close to dying from one reason or another 3 times previously in his life, but I knew he would be okay...but this time, I knew.  As any of you who have had the same experience knows, it didn't make it any easier. 

As for Ralph:  things went fairly well today...except that today we found out that BOTH of his lungs have had a "little bit of collapsed spaces" post surgery, to quote the doctor, and they want him to "work really hard" with the lung expander to help that along.  Only thing is, it REALLY hurts for him to draw in breath very deeply, so we will discuss that tomorrow, I guess...meantime this is part of the post from early this morning that I put on Care Pages...

"Cautiously optimistic"... I've heard those words used before, but always heard them about someone else...I am now using them for Ralph...he was told this morning that his levels have "leveled off" and they are expecting that now they will see them decrease (which is good)...  We are really pleased with his progress over the weekend...this morning he sounded really good. I haven't seen him yet, but on the phone he sounded better than he has up til now. He took a longer walk this morning and has less difficulty getting up and down. He also met some milestones overnight...it would be TMI if I got any more detailed (lol)...

He actually ate for the first time yesterday (other than just picking here and there) and that is a very good sign. Now we just have to see what happens when some more steps are taken to making him more independent...that will come, hopefully, over the next couple of days. I wish I could post the picture I took yesterday before we left. Rachel (Kim's youngest) found a 2 inch or so heart-shaped piece of thin shale out in the hospital parking lot, and we put it on Ralph's chest, right about where his heart is, and took a picture. The picture came out great, but I don't have access to my photo program, so I will have to post it when I get home.

Teh "good news" I posted is a little tainted by the collapsed lung spaces announcement, but still, he IS better...and we continue to thank all of you for your continued messages and prayers....I couldn't have asked for more support...all of you have been so kind and we are so grateful. 

Once again, the computer is being eyed by another who wants to use it...so I must go...have rambled enough.  I will be glad when this is over and I can get back to being part of people's posts and offer some support, especially to those who are new to the site.  I am so very sorry you are here...so very sorry for your loss, and for the grief you now endure...

love and peace,  carol  mikesmomrs

[josephsmom90]

Carol,

Thanks, I've pretty much always been alone with the exception of the last twenty yrs of being a parent. Primarily a single parent. I don't know what's up with it all now. I've always made the best of it. I don't have a job and am not having great luck at finidng one. So I am home bound, isolated to a large degree. guess I better suck it up!

Elaine

[summergirl]

Hello Indigo's -

About the Thank you notes - well to tell you the truth I never even gave it a thought, I mean really, I was dealing with the sudden death of my daughter, holding on to her 4 year old son terrified the "disneyland dad" would come and take him from us, I was a crazy woman...so not really thinking of writing thank you notes - then one day about 3 weeks after Jessica left my mother-in-law called and asked me "when are you going to send out thank you notes, people are waiting you know and they did so much, you really need to get it done" (funny how I can remember the horrible things people said word for word) - I was just stunned that she would do that to me, no offer to help me or anything.....I hung up the phone, got the list out that my sister-in-law had made and started writing, I believe I wrote the same thing in each one, it took me several days to complete but I did it.....why did I let her get to me like that and the question I have is "does anyone really expect a thank you for what they did when you lose  your child???"  I did write a beautiful letter and placed it in our local newspaper as I must say there were many, many people who gave from their hearts and most all said "for Tavian" - I did that because it came from my heart and I did it when I was ready to do so.....

Trudi - I love the piece you sent out for Michael - so beautiful.

Rhonda - how true about the insurance money - what to do with it. I felt that way the first time we received the Social Security check for Tavian - I cried and cried, this was money for Tavian and his future but he gets it because his mommy died....I kept calling it "death money" - now I realize that Tavian will have a good amount when he is ready to go to college. Right now we use it for special things he wants on special occasions.    Use the insurance money for whatever you need it for - your son would want you to do that.  Love reading your posts, you are so wonderfully truthful - I feel your pain so vividly as I read your words.

Elaine - go out and have a smoke - I will join you....something that I just can't seem to give up....my husband quit 2 years ago and is on me all the time about quitting but I told him to leave me alone - when I am ready I will quit, have done it before and can do it again....just do not want anyone telling me too.     I feel so bad that you have no one to socialize with - what happened to your friends ? family ? Have I missed something in your posts ?  

Sonya - thank you my friend for writing Jessica's name in the sand - it was a diffacult day for me - 5 years is way too long and it hit me hard, I worked on her birthday but took the next 2 days off - just did not want to go into work and deal.

Suz - you are right, I do enjoy my time when Tavian is at his other Grandmother's yet some days I miss him so much I find myself crying....silly I know as I know he is having a great time.  The big thing with me is I worry something will happen to him and I will not be there, I worry about the stupid things like = what if they have a car accident, what if he is swimming in the pool and they go in the house to get something and leave him alone, what iif he gets sick and needs me, what if, what if.. I know I have to stop doing that to myself but the fear is always with me and I guess it always will be....   So glad you are going to Iowa - my home state...definitely have a "alone night and live it up, you deserve it" 

It was a beautiful day today, the humidity was down but coming back tomorrow. Good thing the heat does not bother me like alot of people.

Love, peace and strength to all, Kathy

Jessica - I am missing you so much my girl, I thought of you tonight as I watered your garden, it is so beautiful this year and the pond so bright and clear. The fish have decided they like me now, I put my fingers in the water and wiggle them when it is time to feed them and they all come swimming to the top nipping at my fingers, it makes me smile.  The lily pad has beautiful yellow flowers, your favorite color...how am I breathing, how am I doing this every day?? Because I know you want me to, you would be so angry with me if I didn't live, live for you and Tavian...so I am doing the best I can but it does not stop the tears, pain and wishing. I love you, always my daughter, always your mom   

[westleysmom]

Welcome back from vacation, Sonya. 

We got a new kitty cat today.  My granddaughter helped us name him, he's Bobby, the Bob-tailed cat.  He was just born with a short tail, but it seemed to fit.  She was a little scared of him, but maybe they'll warm up to each other. 

Oh and quitting smoking?  Forever?  May never happen.  I always told Westley he needed to quit, that it would kill him.  But I've been an on and off smoker since I was 18, except for when I was pregnant.  And I never smoked in front of him or my daughter.  My husband has asthma, so I never smoke around him.  I know I should give it up completely, but I don't know if I ever will.  I know its twisted, but I was just a little relieved that some of you guys do too. 

It's trying to blow up a storm here, and cooled off a little.   Have a good evening, everybody

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[josephsmom90]

Kathy, is it summergirlsmom? Am I getthing this right,

What happened to my family? Never had one, oh I had parents who gave birth, beat, tormented, molseted, starved, tied me to beds and all that evil stuff... I got away at 12, permanently @ 14. Thank God, I had my first apt at 14 and raised myself. Ended up turning them in for the cruelty they launced on the seven children they had. So at about 14 I met my oldest friend, she lives in Colorado. Her mom has been my mom since I was about 16. But she lives in Colorado too... If I could afford it, I'd go down there for a week or two, but I can't. Friends? Well lets see I left Ca  March of 08, which was the last time I saw Joseph. And I moved to the PNW near a 'freind.' Who I was totally there for while she endured abuse from a husband.. Was assisting her in getting away from him and being safe. Well four months after I lost my son, her husband was killed in a wreck. All these years she's been lying to her children, 16, 13, 10 about what a HERO this scum was... He did evil things to her, the kids were clules and so was the majority of the community. I saw through him from the beggining though. Anyway, she'd been having an affair with a man the met in church ( I believed her that she wasn't) so 6 months after Mike dies, she marries him. So...... there went my only friend I had up here. I moved to a new town to get out of the deep timbers and the isolation we were in there. We were 19 miles from a town, I didn't want Michael on a school bust twice a day at that distance either. I did not think his emotional state could bear that. Well at the same time, I'd started to date a man who lived where I am now. Chris seemed to be a perfect match for me. Except when I moved up here and got to 'look into his life' he was NOT who he said he was. He also had three hellion boys, who will/are giving him a run! I have pretty well behaved kids, at least while they live under my roof... Anyway, turns out he is not who he says he is. I dumped him a month after we moved up here, that was in Sept 09. LOL, and  I was the "ONE" ya ya, 4 months later he married. He had wanted a new house, bought one, we looked together etc, imagine that? So with his limited income, he had about 30.00 a week left to feed three kids and himself. He just wanted another income and someone to taxi kids, make his life easier etc. So that was that.

I've not been here a year, had one job that paid less than my disablity and I can't do that. I must have insurance with my arm, its held together with pins, screws, wire, plates and a metal elbow... I have over 3 million in it now.. Anyway, the job stunk! So I have a second interview with another place the 29th, but again, I can't live on 1750 a month! SOoooo I am going to offer to do the job, 36 hours, if they are willing to pay me 1000 or less a month. I can keep my benifits, and make extra $ to put in savings, its a 5 pm to 5 am three days a week, a cake job as I see it. I can sleep if I choose too so we will see on that.

The first six months or so I was here were spent in shock. I joined a church and intially the people were supportive, then it stopped, I don't know why. I didn't 'do' anything, didn't offend anyone. So here I sit alone. Did go get mail and an ice cream cone. Oh well, the truck needed to be driven anyway. Still hot in the house though! And I still just want to sleep!

Elaine

[josephsmom90]

Carol,

Premonition? I don't know if I'd call mine that. In about 2005 I knew I'd lose one of the twins.... Thought it be Daniel, he was looking like he was military bound. But then when he crossed the line with me I took him to dads. Maybe that changed his mind, I dunno. I can't describe the thought/s other than it was just a knowing.

I hate it, knowing, Sometimes I wished I didn't know a thing. Peace

Elaine

[krichie]

I will have to tell you about Richie tomorrow my head hurts from crying today and reading. gonna go try for sleep

[ericasmom]

Oh Krichie, you sleep, and you can tell us whenever you feel like it, no pressure. I do hope that you get some good sleep.

Greg, so nice of you to post the Bereaved Parents Bulletin. I reread some of it and found myself shaking my head, YES, uh-hu, right...so New to the site, please read these, better still make a copy so that you can refer to these insightful pages in the future.

Because there are so many newbies here right now, I feel compelled, (sorry gang that knows me) to just remind you to drink a lot of fluids, water, juices, teas. Remember that our tears must fall but that our body needs replacement water, so do this for yourselves and if there are siblings, remind them. Take a multi vitamin to cover what you are not taking in with food if you are not eating much, or not eating healthy. Take some extra vitamin C as it is an immune booster adn our immune systems take a huge beating in our grief. Try to eat small meals in your days, making sure that there are some items that are protein. You will need to replenish your supplies as grief is exhausting and it takes a lot of our energy. Take a walk or two each day, or bike ride or some form of exercise in order to work through some of the pent up feelings that we all have, also to help your body relax later, easier to relax when you have had some outlet for your energy, and finally, exercise might also release the endorphins that we need to keep us as up as we can be, which is still way low but better than when we don't . If sleep is impossible, try t o write or read or work on a puzzle so that your brain is not constantly replaying the event that brought you here.

These are just some tips that helped me get through, especially the first two years.

Wow Elaine, your life has been a big rollercoaster trip, sorry for all the bad and the sad. I did not raise myself but dealt with a lot of abuse too, Dear Old Dad. Hang on and get some sleep. New day might bring some new light.

Trudi, I love that you are taking calligraphy classes. I think that it is great for you to try something new. What fun, can't wait to hear about the class. Can you smuggle Muttley in?

Carol, i do find y ou amazing, the ability to answer so many questions and address so many here in your limited time on a borrowed computer during a stressful time while Ralph is in the hospital...you are an amazing inspiration to me, a wonder. God Bless and "ATA- BOY- RALPH-Y-BOY" keep healing and breathing a bit deeper each day, each day a sense of your healing, eventually going home to continue to heal. Prayers are being said.

Sonya, so glad that you had a fine time, anxious to hear about your time on the beach.

dee

[daveydow1]

Hi Indigoes......It's midnight, and I need to sleep....so here goes.

HAPPY HEAVENLY BIRTHDAY, DAVID.  

Carriebear----Sorry I missed David's birthday. Thoughts & prayers, friend.

 

About thank you notes after the funeral......I just went into a 'robot mode', I

guess, and got them out very soon. David didn't have a large funeral, so there

were not too many notes to write......maybe 20 or 25  I'd guess.

Amy----I do know just how you feel about keeping to yourself. Sometimes

it just seems like the least painful way to go. Your dream of your sweet Ashley

was so nice. I have not had a dream of Davey for ever so long (at least one that

I can remember, anyhow.), but who knows---maybe I'll have one sometime soon.

Sonya----I'm glad to hear you had a nice vacation at the beach. Welcome

back to BI. I've been picking green beans like crazy,---but not enough of them to can.

Rhonda-----Oh, such a cute cute name for the new little kitty......Bobby, and he

has the short tail to match.    Glad to hear that the reunion went ok.

Carol----Praying for Ralph each night.

Elaine----Cute name for your dog---Sassy. I bet she is a lot of comfort to you.

Betty----thanks for the pic of you & the little squirrel.

Susannah---Have a nice trip to Iowa. I think that the journal is a good idea. I have

been writing in one since Davey's death. I don't write in it every day......just

whenever I can.

Dee---I do hope that at least some of your flowers will survive the flooding. Ours

are doing better now that we got some good rain.

Betsy-----Good luck with the move. I just moved here 4 mo. ago, so I know what

a pain all the packing can be, and the looking & looking for things after the move.

Krichie-----I am so sorry for your loss of your dear son Richie. As others have said,

this is a good place to come to read/post and tell us how you are doing in your

loss. Everyone here knows, firsthand, the grief of losing a child. I have

been here 7 yrs. and have found BI to be a lifeline. 

         I'm off to get some sleep.  Peace and Rest to all here at the BI.

            Davey&Lisasmom,   Sherry

 

[aim630]

I managed to send out thank you cards to most people, but I probably forgot a few. I would like to think that most people would understand we had just lost a child, and thank you notes were the last things on our mind. It's not like a baby or wedding shower which are joyful things.

I always hated going to funerals too, and would come up with any excuse not to attend, unless it was someone really close to me. A few years ago, a teenage girl that my youngest daughter attended school with was killed in an auto/pedestrian accident. Although she was not friends with this girl, she knew her and most of the kids in the high school attended. I did not know the family, but I knew I would literally break down in tears if I went, just thinking of this family losing their child (and this was several years before Ashley died). I did not want to be embarrassed, crying at a funeral of someone I never met, so my youngest daughter went with her best friend's family. I feel bad now that I did not go, but I think I understand now why some other people have mostly avoided the subject of Ashley's death. I know it makes other people uncomfortable, and afraid the same thing could happen to one of their children.

Some days are much worse than others. Sometimes I find myself dwelling on that last day, and I have to really try hard to steer myself away from those thoughts. Then I feel guilty, like if I'm laughing or having fun, I'm not honoring Ashley's memory.

The insurance company ended up splitting Ashley's policy between myself and her father who was absent through much of her life. My husband (Ashley's stepfather) and I raised her and co-signed her college loans, which we now have to pay back. I do not care at all about the money, it is just the principle. I do not care to fight with him about it though, so I just let it go. Some may say it's stupid, but it just wasn't worth it to me.

Good night to everyone.

Amy/Ashley's mom

[Guest]

I absolutely promised Gary I would quit smoking.  When it came to follow through with my promise I told him I didn't think I could keep my promise to him.  He told me he didn't think he wanted me to.  I haven't quit quitting, yet....still thinking about it.

Trudi - may I use your "thank you" poem?  I think I'll just put it in the paper with Steph's one year thingy, if you don't mind....can I treak it here and there to make it fit us and Stephanie?

Kathy - my son took Jonathon to the lake with him last weekend. I was an almost state of panic until he brought him back.  My biggest worry was that Jonathon would miss me, need me or want me and I wouldn't be there.  I was so excited to see him walk through the door.  He was disappointed to be home.  Uncle Curtis is now his hero...."He can stand up in the deep, deep water, Grandma!"  My son is 6'2".  He must look like a giant to Jonathon.

I have a thank you note in my mind that I'd like to send to your mom in law! 

I know.  I know......but, damn it!  Just damn it!  Arrrrgh!

Carol - still praying!

Stephanie's kid's therapist told me it was necessary for me to cry in front of the kids so they would know it's okay to cry.  She told my open grieving gave them permission to grieve, too.  Turns out she was right.  I was afraid, though, that it would traumatize them.  It didn't.  We all just cuddled and cried together in the grieving chair. 

Tonight Mariah wrote a letter to Stephanie.  I'm posting it here. 

"Dear Mom,  I want to come with you, but I can't because you are dead.  But, I still wanted to come with you.  But, know I miss you too much.  When I first saw you, I freaked out.  (she's referring to the moment they were reunited after we got them back - after a year of not knowing where they were) Those were good times. I thought I would lose you and I did because you died.  That made me very sad.  I didn't mean for this to happen to you but it did anyway.  I miss you so much.  PS - I don't sleep without you tucking me in.  Love, Mariah To:  you   From:  Mariah  PS xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxxxxooooxoxoxoxo"

I told her it was a beautiful letter.  I asked her if she wanted to cuddle and she said no...later she came in to my room to hug me. 

Below is a picture of the kids and me in the grieving chair....shortly after Steph died...maybe a month or two..

[josephsmom90]

Amy,

I understand completly about the fight. I just have none left in me. I can't do it. I MUST have peace.

Elaine

[josephsmom90]

I love that chair and can relate! I have one that ideally seats three... Nice photo!

Elaine

[mikesmum]

Sus - you may certainly use that note.  It was generic, written cause I had no idea who exactly was there, sent flowers, rang or sent cards.....I think Melissa might have sent them out from details in memorial book etc.  I can just hear Mike saying....."Thank you cards for a funeral  - What were you thinking" (lol)

Elaine - Yes the friends we thought would be with us throughout disappear faster than chocolate at a weight watchers meeting.  Its been over 3yrs since Mike died and we have lost friends, work collegues etc....partly because I have disconnected from that world, partly cause they truly don't know what to say or do....

I will introduce you to Muttley.  My Emotional Support Pup.  I got him 16 weeks after Micheal died.  He is the reason I get up each day - he likes to walk and enjoys the local fare as I sit with a latte........

[josephsmom90]

Mikesmum,

OHHHHHH, he looks like Sassy!! I have Sassy, Woof, and Mia, they are

Chihuahuas. They are the most personable dogs ever! They sleep with us, Mia with Michael, and Woof with me. When I am on the couch or chair, they are right there. In the kitchen, if I let them stay, or if I tell them out of the kitchen, they do and wait by the dining room table watching me. If I go into a room and close the door they will lay by it. when they are on the couch or chair with me, they usually have to be touchng me as they lay down too. It is amazing. Tell me, what is it like in Australia? Is it hot?

Elaine

[mikesmum]

Sus - You may definitely use Mikes 'Thank you'.   I guess it came from me not knowing who was there who sent cards and flowers so I wrote generically.  I can almost hearing him saying "thank you cards for a funeral?? what are you thinking' (lol)

Elaine - My circle of friends beat a hasty retreat in the first year, my work friends same.  So I come here to read to catch up and share.  I did make the trip to the US last year, my 'BI family of Dee, Colleen, Bonnie, Marcia met up in MN. 

Given that I live in the land downunder I highly recommend finding a network of support.  Here is a good start. 

I would like to introduce you to my Emotional Support Pup.  Muttley became mine 16 weeks after Micheal died.  Mikes been gone just over 3 1/2yrs.   Between my BI family and Muttley I have made headway on my journey.  Here he is with my other reason for taking another breath - grandies Emily Zak Caleb & Jeya.

 

[josephsmom90]

This is a photo of the twins when they were about 18 months old. On Chelle, my neice, the human horse we called her then. Joseph is in front and Daniel in the back. CUTE! I remember them days well.

Elaine

[josephsmom90]

This is my son Michael, at his first prom, he went to the senior prom with his best buddy. She got sorta stood up, so Micahel to the rescue. They had a blast. Here is a link to an interview PBS did on Michael and volunteer work in August of last year. He almost did not do it, was after losing Jospeh. But he made national TV. Way to go lil Schmidt! That is his last name.

Elaine

 

 

.

 

[ericasmom]

Elaine, love the piece on Michael, he is a doll, and very comfortable in front of the camera. Good for him doing the work for the church. What a great kid. I also love the photo of the twins with cousin.

Peace today,

dee

PS Your dog looks like Muttley's brother or sister

[westleysmom]

Going to some training today, so won't be checking in much.  Have a good day all.

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[ericasmom]

What kind Rhonda, i too am going for two days (mornings) of tech training for my district. I hate tech training through my district, they really don't do it well.

Oh well,

dee

[Guest]

Thanks, Trudi!  I felt the same way as you say Mike would have...."Thank you cards at a funeral?"  I did announce to a group of people I was speaking to recently, "I was supposed to send thank you cards but didn't have the where-with-all to pull it off.  However, I am grateful for your love and support."

Elaine - Michael is 15? What a mature boy!  I was impressed with the video.  With all the heartache in your life, it's a bit of a gift.  I wish you had more support around you.  However, I wasn't really able to receive support face to face until I found BI.  In my period of isolation, this became my lifeline.  Please keep sharing those pictures and stories.  They help us as well as you.  I love learning more about all our angels and their families.

Rhonda - What kind of training, if I may ask?  See you later today, then.

Shelby, our golden, has thyroid disease.  We just discovered it a couple of weeks ago.  I actually thought she lost her hair and became lethargic because she was depressed over all the changes in our lives.  I thought my own sadness was affecting her.  So, we have a golden retriever whose tail is bald.  The vet said the medicine would help her hair grow back, but I don't see it happening.  She wags her tail so vigorously that the end of it bleeds.  I put medicine on it and wrapped it, but the bandage fell off.

She has "hot spots" on her back leg and I did doctor that real good.  She is leaving the bandage alone.  She doesn't like to wear the "cone of shame".   

I'm giving her extra vitamin E to aid the healing.  I'm putting aloe vera (from my plant) on the spots.  The thyroid medicine seems to be giving her back some energy, although I'm not sure.  We have a really good vet, but they don't seem as concerned as I am over this. 

Lately my dreams are full of me trying to save people.  I always fail.  I guess that's to be expected considering the time frame. 

Blessings,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[jefferysmommy]

Carol, so glad to hear that Ralph is doing better, thinking of you every day.

Elaine:  I read the story that Joseph wrote, and was amazed, it brought tears to my eyes.  Michael, is also an amazing boy, you must be so proud of him.  Thank you for all your posts, I'm glad that you found your way here to BI.

Sus: I love the chair, it looks so comfy, and the kids are gorgeous!

Trudi:  I love the card, that is amazing, I wish I had something like that or thought of something like that at the time.

This was something I wrote one night after Jeffery passed, before the funeral, when I couldn't sleep, we had it framed and it was displayed at the funeral as well:

Jeffery

Ten little fingers

Ten little toes

A big bright smile

And a button nose

You were ours to hold

In our arms so tight

We likely won't forget

All those sleepless nights

But, you were too angelic

So here you couldn't stay

You went up to heaven

When angels swept you away

You touched so many hearts

In the short time you were here

As we think of you,

We've shed so many tears

Remember, Mommy and Daddy love you

Jessica misses her little brother

We will never forget you, Jeffery

You'll be in our hearts forever

I too am a smoker, have tried to quit in the past, but have failed miserably each time, one of these days I will succeed, but for now, what I always say is "nobody likes a quitter!"  

I'm going to try to get some pictures of Jeffery scanned today so that I can get them up here on my profile.  But for now, I have to get back to working.

 

Jenn - Jeffery's Mommy

[josephsmom90]

Jenn,

Thank you for reading the kids stuff. Yes I am very proud of all of them. Though I don't have photos of Daniel's days in California Cadet Corps on my lap top, that was his achievement in High School. He was awarded in the Senate and Legislature in Sacramento in person on the floor (someting they'd not done in over 30 yrs) by the reps themselves in person. This was for his outstanding achievement in the Corps. He was a Conel then over 400 or so Cadets. Michael's volunteer service started in Ca with the San Bernardino Co Sherriffs Office, then a dog groomer for two years, the the church where he was interviewed by PBS. Notice the coat he had on that day, it was Jospeh's it's almost a rag, a treasured rag, he wears it in 80-90 degree heat too, he doesn't care. I'm missin him big time! Thanks for writing me. I am deeply sorry for your loss, as only another mother/parent can be. Peace.

Elaine

[shorty16]

I am going to cry.  We only had liability coverage on Michelle's 2000 Mercury.  The car is trashed from flood damage.

Anyone want a 2000 Mercury Sable - FREE.  Just tow the POS out of my drive-way.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[josephsmom90]

Sue,

I'm so glad you have your grand babies! I have not even met my only grandson. Was hoping to do that this Christmas. Though his dad, my oldest, John is in trouble again and i don't know if it will be possible. I'm guna try though.

Yes Michael was 15 in the interview, the coat he is wearing was Joseph's, and is almost a rag now but he didn't take it off back then, and still wears it a lot. The prom photo he was 16. I thought that was so sweet of him to go with Danni, she had a loser boy friend, so Schmidt to the rescue, they are close buddies, but strictly friends. He's never dated, never held a gal's hand. He has time though, I've been rather strict with that stuff though, and he, like his brothers is used to it. Besides he sees his friends and the messes they get in when they date and say's no thanks! Michael's volunteer carreer started at age 9 when I volunteered for the Sherriffs Department in so Californina, then he worked for a dog groomer for two years, they loved him, then in Wa when he was interviewed he was at the church. Here in Idaho he is with a non profit with me that seeks to build long term mentorships with at risk-youth. We provide a free safe and sober night once a month for them. He loves that type of work. I'm glad you like the photos, that makes my heart happy. Don't want to wear it out. Here is a photo of the twins (18 months) at Big Sur Ca on a road trip with mom. They were literally that close almost their entire lives. Peace.

Elaine

[josephsmom90]

I will see about finding photos of the little dogs later today. This is Daniel, Joseph's twin and my neice Chelle. This was taken at the dinner after Joseph's service. Most of the time,  still cannot say those words, you know the W word or the Fun---l word, I still have a hard time even looking at a cemetary! I've only been there twice, once the day after and on Joseph & Daniel's 20th bday in March. I thought it horrific to have to go to my son's grave on his bday. But Micahel needed to do that to grieve, so I drove him to Wyoming. I wrote some more about Michael and Daniel on the other posts.Ya the dogs are so comforting, the little ones love to snuggle. Peace.

Elaine

[briansdad]

[user=20150]shorty16[/user] wrote:

I am going to cry.  We only had liability coverage on Michelle's 2000 Mercury.  The car is trashed from flood damage.

Anyone want a 2000 Mercury Sable - FREE.  Just tow the POS out of my drive-way.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

Colleen you just made me smile. The first time I heard the term POS was from Brian.I had to ask what the hell he was talking about. He replied you know.... Piece of sh*&

[Guest]

Love the pics, Elaine! 

Now POS I understood immediately!  What a bummer, Colleen.

Feeling inspired by Trudi's poem of thanks, I ended up writing my own (Thanks, Trudi!)  I'm going to run it in the paper on Steph's angelversary, with a picture of her, of course.  Her it is: 

I should have said it sooner.  I should have said it better.

I should have made it personal, instead of a public letter.

I tried to keep a list of gifts given with love and support;

For, alas, there were many, which helped buoy our broken hearts.

You sent a card in remembrance or phoned to say you cared.

Many of you sent money or flowers or food for us to share.

You made blankets for her children or sent them a note to cheer

We were given a scrapbook of memories so they would remember her.

You cut your vacation short so you could officiate her service.

You drove seven hundred miles to bring her sister to us.

You touched a child’s cheek, before you sang your song,

When she looked at you in innocence, and asked why her mommy was gone.

Yes, I wish I’d said it sooner to you individually,

But, the pain was so intense, I couldn’t get off my knees. 

I begged and pleaded for wisdom, to understand God’s plan;

Barely able to function, but doing the best one can.

It’s the most painful of experiences, I don’t exaggerate;

It’s also the most spiritual as we leaned upon God’s grace.

You held our hands in silence and listened as we cried.

We wouldn’t have made it without you, the day my daughter died.

Your compassion in friendship and service helped us see God’s love anew.

This little poem is inadequate as we simply say, Thank you.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[krichie]

New day, think I can tell you a little about Richie.

He was and is an amazing son, born Jan 1984 and was a gift from heaven, I was told I could not have other kids because of cancer after his birth but then around xmas of 89 I had my son Kris.

Richie was a typical all american boy, curly red hair and freckles, he was teased and admired for his curls that by time he was in his mid teens he decided enough and shaved it off and keept it that way. I was divorced from his birth father when he was 2 but met a wonderful man who I married when he was 4 and have been with since. Scott took to Richie like a birth father and they had a bond that was unbreakable, when Richie turned 18 he surprised us by having us go to the court house to see the Judge sign the papers that legaly changed his last name to his step fathers It was one of the happiest days of his life to carry on  our name, sadly neither of his childrens mothers honored their promises to name the kids after him

He loved his family and has never spent more then a day or 2 away from us, his dream was to build a house or trailor on our land and we were in the process of having a piece of land cleared for him to start work this summer , so when I look out side at the empty spot each day it is heart wrenching to know it will never be filled. we haqd also cleared land around our propertyu for a dirt bike track that was complete just a week before accident and he was on that almost daily he couldn't wait for his dad to ride with him this summer on it

Scott had just baught him a new motorcylce a week before his death and that day Oct 5th 2009 was the first day he got to go for a ride with his friends and show it off. Scott had a bad feeling and called Richie to make sure everything was ok. Richie said things were great they just got back from the ride and he was headed home to eat, he was a mile down the road and only had to go 2miles to his place, Not even 5 min later we get the call from our neighbor that Richie was in an accident, we were on the scene within minutes.

We could not get close to him the kept us back and we could hear them tell Richie to take it easy and not fight them they were here to help. That gave me so much hope he was alive and fighting to stay that way, life flight just happen to be in our area and was there within 3 min another good sign along with him being young having a helmet on and the correct clothing. But 2 hours later as we waited at the hospital the Doctor came to say he wass gone, his pelvis was crushed and to much blood lost and bone fragments cutting to many viens and artieries. I really don't know all they said that night I just heard he was gone and my brain shut down.

In the misdt of all this crying and screaming my husband and I said the poor guy that hit him must feel aweful, we did not know at that time the man was drunk and he didn't even know where he was, on top of that we find out he had precvious oui convictions. The man was on his way from Lewiston to Turner and how he got to our town is beyond anyones concept our town is in no way any route at all to get to where he was going. It is almost the complete oppiste direction, so he was lost and on the wrong side of the road. He even later admitted to seeing Richie in time but being drunk his reaction time wasn't there.

Richie was 25 has a now 3 year old daughter that has a kidney disease and needs a transplant. Richie was looking forward to being her donor and saving her life, what better gift to give your daughter then a second chance at life. Because of blood lose no donor parts could be taken. The doctors say she wont need the transplant till her teenage years if all goes according to plan, but we all know the plan never happens the way its suppose to or our children would still be with us.

His little girl was his sunshine, he broke up with the mother long before her birth but went to every single dr appt till she was born and then stood up and went to court to get his parental rights. He has had her everysingle weekend since her birth never missing a day and usually if he got off work early would take her more, any chance he could he would be with her. he wrote on his facebook page that fatherhood was the best thing to happen to him and he loved being a dad.

His current girlfriend has since given birht to a son and becuase of grief or immaturity we are not aloud to be part of his life, she cleaned out the trailor and took everything of Richies leaving us not even a shirt and now has taken his son. We stood up for her and pair her lot rent for 6 month along with her insurance and other bills filling oil tank ect.. and she takes it all and walks away, on top of that I had to sell the trailor she left it in shambles and a pig sty and filled al the light sockets with wall compund creating afire hazzard and a huge bill for me to have the electric work all replaced, I am at a lost of why she behaved in this manner but can do nothing but cry and shake my head.

Richie worked with his Dad (step father) since he was 15 and went full time with him after he graduated, my side of the family offered to put him thruy college but he wanted to work and be with Dad, he was looking forward to taking over the business so he could take care of us in our old age, usually saying we were of that age now. lol

Every one of the business people that came into cointact with Richie and his dad were always truing to steal richie away to work for him-because his work ethic and personality were unstoppable, he was the type of person when you met him you were a friend instantly and for life. He never had an unkind word to say about anyone. His funeral was unreal they had so many people show up they were lined up down the street and they had to put speakers outside for those people to hear.

Other then his daughter and his family he loved to ride bikes of any kind street or dirtbikes he loved working on cars and helping people with thiers. he played football in HS and got awards. he was vrey active and just such a joy to everyone. I can't even begin to explain how great he really was but I think you all can get the picture. I may be his mom and a little vein about him but to tell the truth he was great. many of the girlfriends fathers he had thru years often would tell thier daughter to get Richie back or caompare thier new boyfriends to Richie. he was the type every father wanted there daughters to marry, when I heard this from many of the girls and thier dads I knew we did good raising him.

Ok I think I rambled enough for now and can hardly see the keybord, so glad I can vent and share him with you.

 

[josephsmom90]

Richie's mom,

I just read your post and it make me cry! Oh how I understand that kind of love an admiration for a son, a son you knew and knew well!! A son that was admired by all, adults, and  children alike.  A talented, bright, loyal, hardworking kind son! My heart breaks right along with yours! I also know cycle wrecks as I've been down too and hard! I lived, sad to say I wished I had not have, not to lose Joseph. He wrote a story about what it was like to almost lose his mom, if you want too let me know I'll send you the website where it is published.

I also know the pain of not having access to a grandchild! I am hoping to change that very soon. And just pray for that little boy. peace to you.

Elaine

[ericasmom]

RichiesMom, I agree, the description of so fine a Son was heartwarming and heart-wrenching as we all know how dearly you miss HIM. I am smiling however, at the lovliness of his personality, at the overwhelming outporing of love and care throughout his life and then in his death. The relationship you fostered and he and your husband both benefited so much from makes me cry. HOw dear.

Thanks for letting us get to now Rich. He was born just a few months before ERi, she was born in April of 84. What a good year for Babies.

Sus, a wonderful poem that will sit beautifully next to your Girl. Good work.

Peace,

dee

[westleysmom]

Susannah-your poem is beautiful.  I wish I could rhyme, but being an accountant (the training was Tennessee Taxes, yuk) I usually can only balance numbers.

Richie sounds like an amazing person.  I am so sorry for your loss.

Dee-Good luck with your Training.  It sounds as exciting as mine.

Jenn (I think, Jeffreys Mommy) Your poem was lovely too. Yeah, quitters never win. 

I hope I'm saying the right things to the right people, got a meeting at church and can't check my facts!  Talk to you guys later.

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[mikesmum]

Lately my dreams are full of me trying to save people.  I always fail. 

This is my life now.  My dreams centre mainly around my working and not being able to 'save' those who call.  They are mainly parents with children in life threatening situations and with all my knowledge and experience I can't help them.  Wonder why that is ??????

Sus - Love the words.....Sorry about the 'cone of shame'...thankfully Muttley hasn't had to wear one...soooo embarassing.

Jefferysmommy - Your words give such imagery to your boy.  Good luck with the pics.

Krichie - Thank you for sharing your boy with us.  So much in there that hit home with me.  Micheal was a 'man child'.  His heart huge, his love for his family and his capacity to care was there for all.   He was living his dream when his body began to deteriorate.  He underwent many surgeries to stem the pain and incapacities.  A pacemaker at 24 was something none of us expected. 

His world changed dramatically with the pain and its treatment.  He and his love of 10yrs  seperated and he found a new 'love'.  Within weeks she was pregnant. A child, something Micheal had longed for all his life. With his new partner he found himself isolated from his friends and family. An addiction to his treatment drugs and a less than loving relationship saw him he slip deeper into depression. 

After a incident in Dec 06 Mike came home to us for 10 days.  He cried for most of it, spoke of his lost love and his beautiful daughter.  He returned to his partner on the 12th of Jan and was gone by the 18th.  His partner severing all ties with Mikes family.

Colleen - POS oh yes I have heard that many a time when the 'buy of the year' didn't start or faltered.... So sorry about the insurance. 

To those in 'training' my thoughts are with you.  I began to learn calligraphy, or should I say learn to write all over again.  It was peaceful.  I had to stop relax and then just let the pen move in the direction shown.  Practice practice practice.

Well Muttley is nagging me........deep brown eyes boring holes into my head as I type.  Off for the walk and I think a Latte.....

Trudi

 

 

[summergirl]

Just a quick hello and thank you Elaine for sharing your story with me.  Yes I am summergirl, mom of Jessica.     Today has been a day that I do not want to repeat, I am having a hard time even reading the posts so I will just let you all know that I am thinking of you and I love you all dearly...peace love and strength, Kathy

[ericasmom]

Oh Trud, I hope that those dreams are leading you out into the next space that will hold more light, more oxygen. I love that the calligraphy classes were peaceful.

Jen, I too loved your poem, so pretty. Poetry is and always has been one of my ways to release what is begging to get out of me. Sometimes, it is scribble but later, years sometimes, I read it adn see the date and know just what was being felt. That is why I journal, have for many years before Erz died, to keep a casual record of events and emotions, and when I go back I see the progress some of the time, I also see the repetition of lessons not learned, a good tool in itself.

Love the talk of the cone of shame. So funny.

[westleysmom]

Elaine-I finally got to watch the video of your Michael.  No wonder you miss him so bad when he's gone.  Hope you are making it ok.

Kathy-So sorry you are having a bad day.  Thinking of you.

Colleen-Sorry about the POS.  We have had (and still have, now that I think about it) several of those.  Has your floodwater all gone away?  We still haven't even gotten any rain.

Susannah, was it your dog wearing the cone of shame?  that made me laugh too.  No small feat. 

It was a long boring day.  We had Sales, Franchise & Excise, Inheritance, Individual, Unemployment and Ad Valorem Property Tax.  I might have left something out, but you probably don't care about it either!  We have to have 80 hours every two years with no less than 20 in either.  I was supposed to go to something on Westley's birthday, but I sat on my back porch in complete shock that day.  The weather was as fine as we'd ever had on his birthday.  Sometimes I would make cupcakes for the kids at school and we'd have to eat them because school was cancelled for ice or snow.  Isn't it funny the things you remember?  Losing it thinking back, so will sign off for tonight. 

I hope we all have sweet dreams tonight.

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[westleysmom]

Elaine-I finally got to watch the video of your Michael.  No wonder you miss him so bad when he's gone.  Hope you are making it ok.

Kathy-So sorry you are having a bad day.  Thinking of you.

Colleen-Sorry about the POS.  We have had (and still have, now that I think about it) several of those.  Has your floodwater all gone away?  We still haven't even gotten any rain.

Susannah, was it your dog wearing the cone of shame?  that made me laugh too.  No small feat. 

It was a long boring day.  We had Sales, Franchise & Excise, Inheritance, Individual, Unemployment and Ad Valorem Property Tax.  I might have left something out, but you probably don't care about it either!  We have to have 80 hours every two years with no less than 20 in either.  I was supposed to go to something on Westley's birthday, but I sat on my back porch in complete shock that day.  The weather was as fine as we'd ever had on his birthday.  Sometimes I would make cupcakes for the kids at school and we'd have to eat them because school was cancelled for ice or snow.  Isn't it funny the things you remember?  Losing it thinking back, so will sign off for tonight. 

I hope we all have sweet dreams tonight.

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[westleysmom]

Oops! Sorry for the double post.  I didn't go to bed soon enough.

Rhonda Westley's Mom

[krichie]

My husband and are are still togahter with our son Kris, but I can't say our relationship is the same. We are still very close and have so much love for one another but I do not talk of Richie much to him becuse it causes him pain when I feel he has reached a good spot in his day and I know he does the same. it seems when one is at a low the other has found a moment of peace and we do not want to shatter that for a moment cause we know it will not last.

We do still talk of him but not as often as our thaughts take us down that path. I just hope that we do not lose the closeness we have by trying to pertect the other. Does this make any sense.

My youngest has not talked about Richie at all and this worries me, he was always the quite one but he is way to quite I am hoping he is finding support with friends, I have let him know no matter the time or place he can always talk to us or me. He is tuning 21 this December and is a young adult but with such a deffrent personality then his brother.

I have thaught of taking caligraphy it is such a pretty writting style, maybe in the near future I will look into it, my all time favorite hobbie I would like to try is stain glass so maybe next summer I will look into what type of classes they have in my area and decide then what I can and can't so

Poetry is also a favorite of mine, alot more lately because I can empathize with it more so  and can see the beauty in it more as well as the pain

And having a special chair is nice, I have a tree I sit under that Richie alwys was cutting and chopping wood by, it was his shade tree that he would set up the logs or splitter under and I have taken it as my space for quite time or to sit and look at it out the window.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry Indigo's.  I don't know if "I'm right on schedule" or if I've taken an incredible step backwards.  I seem to be lost in the first few weeks of losing Stephanie.  It's as if I'm really there. 

My brain is mush again.  I've read your posts but seem incapable of retaining information...just like when I found you in the first place.  I ask your forgiveness in advance if I've slighted anyone's post or missed a newcomer. 

The good thing about this is my appetite seems to be gone and Lord knows I can stand to lose a few pounds. 

Yes, our dog is wearing the cone of shame.  She's been really good today, so I've kept it off, but she is chewing on her bandage, so I may have to put it on for the night.  We've begun antibiotics to help.  Her poor tail, which is now bald, is also wrapped because she can't help but wag it and it hits things and bleeds.  The vet said sometimes when their tails get as bad as hers they have to amputate it.  Remember, Shelby is a golden retreiver.....she's not supposed to have ANY bald spots.  I'm determined to save her.

Seems a lot of our pets are suffering now too.....

 

[ericasmom]

Hang on Susannah, the first anniversary is quite hard, hang on. You are in some ways, right back there in the first days of losing Steph. That is inevitable. But once you are able, look back and see how far you all have actually come, the steps you have taken and those the kids have been able to take, and while that does not bring your Girl back, it sure does make her proud. And it sure does prove that you are trying to live your best life.

Richie's Mom, I am glad that you and your Husband are still very close. Losing a Child takes a beating on a marriage, and while the two of you are trying to protect one another, which is common,  it may be that you are also holding too much in. Read up a bit on this, maybe joining a group of bereaved parents for some tips on that, just making sure that you both feel comfy talking about Richie without feeling that either one is hurting the other. Could Chris be doing what the two of you are doing too? Saying little for fear of upsetting the family? The siblings have a hard role to play in losing their brother or sister. Would it benefit you guys to have therapy a few times together? Would your  Son even go? It is a hard age to get to therapy. You know what is written about siblings in loss? That they have lost the witness to their lives. It is true and it is also true that it is very hard for them to discuss it. My Son was 21 when his little Sister was killed. She was 19.  There is nothing easy about this process, and sometimes hearing someone say this eases the expectation for them.

Good luck,

dee