Grief & Healing from a Christian-Biblical Worldview

[sheela]

Are you in a good church with a good single's program?  That would be a good thing for you, maybe.  It would be good just to give you Christian friends and get you out of the house and give you support.  And when the time was right, "He" might just appear. 

ty so much Oneta, i am in a church but they dont really have a singles club.. the catholic churches in downtown denver dont help much with the lonely people. i dont blame you for being mad at those sites thats pretty crummy for them to judge like that.

 

[misshimstill]

Sheela, You might try branching out to some of the bigger parrishes in the area.  I'm sure there are some that have bigger groups for single people.  I'm so glad you don't do the bar hopping thing, but my daughter discovered that she really didn't do much better on the singles websites.  I just really hope something works out for you.  I know that loneliness is terrible.  My daughter was just about to give up when she met this man she's dating now.  He seems really nice and maybe he's the one she's been waiting for.  You've really honored your mother by taking such good care of her and honored God by doing that.  He will bring someone to you.

[sheela]

Oneta you are so right ty for the advice. i will see what i can do..

[msroderskie]

Hello all,

I haven't been on the site for a few days and want to briefly answer some postings from a couple days back...

Claudia,  I appreciated your explanation of why you used cremation for Joey and how you spread his ashes in the horse pasture.  I picture it is a beautiful place, and I fully identify with the love of horses. Used to have a few myself.  I will probably choose burial, because that's what I'm more comfortable with, but you are right about the resurrection to come being miraculous either way!

Oneta,  Thanks for recommending the book The Shack. I will have to look it up.   It sounds interesting.  I too feel that it's hard to "blame" God for what has befallen us in earthly life.   A Christian friend of mine once saw Corrie ten Boom speak (she wrote The Hiding Place - a wonderful book that was made into a movie).  During her talk she used a tapestry to illustrate our earthly view versus the big cosmic view that God will one day reveal to us.  She held up the ugly, knotted side of the tapestry and pointed out how chaotic and awful it appeared, equating the underside to our view of things in this life.  Then she turned the tapestry over to reveal the beautiful, orderly picture that had been woven, which represents the perfect order God will bring out of this mess, our broken lives and our grief.  I love that analogy and sometimes use it when giving my testimony. 

Sheela,  I'm so sorry to hear that you've run into rudeness on the singles websites.  I think it is probably just a reflection of modern culture.  Rudeness has become entertainment on TV, really when you think about it.  Look at all the "reality" shows on TV which elevate the use of rudeness or at least pushiness to achieve one's own purposes.  Yikes!  I'm astounded by some of the stuff I see in modern media these days.  It's changed radically even since my kids were small (my eldest is 35).  I agree with Oneta that you have honored your mother wonderfully by caring for her for so many years.  Keep looking to "the hills" from whence comes your help! 

About kitchens:  mine is in need of major renovation, but it will have to wait for another day.  I am of two minds on the subject.  I love the idea of simplifying life and living like the Amish.  On the other hand I am fascinated with watching the remodeling shows on HGTV.  It's amazing what you can get used to if you have to.  Claudia, your kitchen sounds like it's far simpler than you've been accustomed to, but do you feel you've adapted to it now?  When living in the tropics (Philippines) I found the cock roaches very pesky.   There's something you never get used to! 

To all --thank you for the encouragement and prayers that I find here among friends (and siblings!)   Rody

[sheela]

thakns Rody :0)

[misshimstill]

Hi, Rody.  I have both read the book and seen the movie of Corrie Ten Boom's life, in fact several times.  She was a wonderful Christian example of forgiveness in the hardest of circumstances!  In reading the book the last time (a couple of years ago), I noticed that her sister, Betsie, was actually the leader in forgiveness and godliness, and as the book is told from Corrie's point of view, she reveals her own struggle with hatred and difficulty in forgiving.  I remember the tapestry.  Seems like she also wrote a book called The Tapestry...

Just as a sideline, the work I set out to do on my kitchen was to simply get new cabinets.  Other problems have come up as we've done that, making it a much bigger project than we originally intended.  Isn't that how it is so often?

God's peace and blessings to each one of you.  ~Oneta

[wyomingsal]

One thing that sticks with me from "The Hiding Place" is how Corrie could not find it in her heart to be thankful for haveing fleas in their bunkroom.  I can completely understand why.  And yet God used those fleas to allow them to minister to the women in their bunk room because the gaurds wouldn't come in with the fleas.  How amazing is it that God knows why there are horrible things in life even when we don't understand and can't be thankful for them, God uses them in his perfect plan.    Also,  Betsy who was really a saint  and was honest and true and thankful and such an amazing Godly women was the one to die and Corrie was left to carry on God's work and she was the one who struggled each day to remain Godly. 

Sal

[misshimstill]

Sal,  I remember those things about the story, also.  I love how transparent Corrie was in her book in revealing her "flaws" and her difficulties with forgiveness.  I had never really considered or seen before the possible correlation between the two women's ability to maintain the attitudes of gratitude and forgiveness and who died (i.e. taken out of this suffering world) and who was left here to tell the story of forgiveness to others.  I'm glad you pointed that out.  The first time I saw the movie I was struck by Corrie's side of the story.  The last time I saw it about a year ago, I was more struck by Betsie's ease in maintaining a Christ-like attitude while it seemed to be a lifelong struggle for her sister.  I remember at the end of the book when Corrie was speaking before a large audience, a man came forward to thank her for her talk.  She recognized him as one of the guards and immediately felt the anger and hatred rise up.  She said she knew then that she needed to forgive him on an even deeper level than she had previously done, which is a great comfort to me and a great lesson for us all, I think, that forgiveness can, at times, be a long struggle for us.

How is everyone doing today? 

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi All!  Wow!  I've missed you!!!

I just finished today with a leaders retreat group of ten that were here for a couple of days.  I did all the prep, cooking, clean up, etc with just a little bit of gopher help from my hubby when I realized I needed him to run upsatirs to go-pher some condiment or other that I forgot to bring down to the facilities kitchen.  He was a good sport about it.  What was truly remarkable was that we lost power Thursday evening, about suppertime, die to a serious mudslide.  Ecuador has had some major mudslides and traffic accidents recently due to the torrential rainy season.  We thought maybe the group would cancel their arrival after learning that we potentially could be without electricity until Wednesday of this week..Yup!  Seriously!!  Wednesday!!!  But they wanted to have the spiritual retreat and leaders meeting, and felt that maybe "roughing it" for their overnighter without electricity might be a nice focus exercise among other lessons to be learned.  I managed to improvise on coffee, meals, and such when they arrived Monday morning.  And miraculously Monday evening, just as the sun was setting, the power came back on.  Needless to say their experience was very good, and light-filled after dark, which was good.  And my experience with meal prep and such went much easier and quicker with electricity.  But it's good to know that I can survive for 96 hours without electricity, hot water, and such.  Taking baths and washing my hair with many pots of boiled water in my tiny kitchen sink was th egreateast challenge, I think.  But hey!  I survived!  I had to throw out a few things from the freezer that went bad in the last hours.  But for the most part, we muddled through it very well, and cleaning, planning, and taking care of ten guests to boot.  Whodathunkit?!  Isn't God so faithful?  He wanted us to serve this group despite our challenges, and with Him, we did--just Michael and I.  It was great!!  I'm pumped, but pooped now too. 

I got word by e-mail from my mom--that I just received an hour ago (sent last weekend--I had no phone, no cell service, no electric, no contact to the outside world).  Her husband had a stroke last week (his third) and it's suspected he has alzheimers.  He wandered off from the mall when they were shopping and the cops had to look for him.  He apparently was somewhere down the road from the mall and had fallen several times, having many cuts as my mom described.  They are having a lot of tests run now, and mom says he is not the same--going down hill pretty quickly.  My mom was married twice before to alcoholics, one being my dad and the 2nd being a loser that abused her badly for ten years.  This husband, Greg, has been so good to her, and she has been so happy.  Now her world is being turned upside down, and my heart is just breaking for her.  I am so far away, in another country, and I canot go to be with her through this.  I'm sure she will have some really tough challenges ahead as well.  She essentially is losing her husband, and I can imagine how frightened and lonely she feels.  Would you all please pray for my mom, Chris, and her husband Greg?  Please pray that thge Lord be their portion in all circumstances, and that my mom will be able to find the light of comfort and peace in Jesus through the dark.  I so appreciate your prayers for them.

Oneta, sorry to hear the kitchen has some surprises to tackle.  Yes.  that is usually how it goes--especially when it's an older to new renovation project.  I hope it doesn't throw you too out of whack with finances and meal planning, and such.

Rody, I HAVE adapted very well, I think.  When I look back to how I lived before this and how spoiled I was, it surprises me that I was even "that girl"  Because that girl would have never gone for this life.  But God does amazing things when he transforms a person.  Not only have I adapted, but our recent bout with no electricity showed me that I could do with even less than the little i have now.  I'm glad that God has a way like that of keeping us humble, and also letting us know how truly blessed we are, if nothing more than just to have Him.  And He says He is sufficient.  I believe it!!

I would love to get my hands on a copy of that book/movie y'all are discussing.  Maybe I could have a friend from the States carry it here when she visits soon...  Thanks for sharing such wonderful reviews about its tapetry, and the analogy.  I love it, and can't wait to get my hands on it so I can experience it myself.

I'm so happy to see everyone is still posting.  Sal, I hope your husband is recovering well.  Been thinking of ya!

Love to all.  Blessings in Christ, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hi, Claudia!  Glad to hear from you.  It's been very quiet here on the board while you've been out of touch.  I don't envy you such a job as you have described.  It's hard enough to do things like that with power, let alone without.  I'm sure that when people go to the tropics and the "sticks" where you are, they know not to expect 4-star hotel treatment.  STill, this was a challenge, to say the least.

The movie and book "The Hiding Place" - I'm not sure is even in print anymore.  I think I have a copy of it somewhere, but not sure where to be able to put my hands right on it.  The movie we rented last year from Netflicks, so I know it's available.  I'm not sure where you would find it, though.  It's a wonderful story.  If you aren't familiar with it, I'll fill you in, but I'll wait to hear if you know the story or not before I do that.  The movie was produced by Billy Graham and is very true to the book.  In fact, Corrie appears at the end of the movie. 

Claudia, is your mom a believer?  I get the idea reading your note about her that she isn't.  Makes a difference how we pray for her.  I will pray for God's peace to be given to her and a revelation of His love, too.  Alzheimer's is such a horrid disease and affects everyone involved in a tremendous way.

Glad to have you back.  ~Oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Oneta, My mom IS a believer--been saved about 3-4 years.  But as her husband has been declining for the past year or so, she has kept it kind of to herself--denial, maybe.  There's no denying it now, though, and it's really very sad.  She has been married for 9 years.  They both received Christ around the same time.  I noticed when i was there for the holidays how much Greg had reverted to old brain patterns--what he has been most behaviorly familiar with throughout most of his adult life.  And that is very hard for my mom as well.  I spoke with her on the phone earlier.  She isn't sleeping much, eating much, or feeling at ease much.  Everything is changing so rapidly, and she is really heartbroken.  They live kind of isolated in the country, and she probably will have some tough decisions to make in the near future.  She is praying for a miracle, and that is what I am praying for too...  I so wish she didn't have to go through this.......

About my power-less adventure, it sure helped to have propane ovens and stoves.  And I think I have a small fortune in candles now too.   

[misshimstill]

Claudia,  Well, it's good to know about your mom.  I understand the situation better now, which is helpful in praying.  Sometimes we can pray in the Spirit, but sometimes it is helpful to have a better handle on things.  It must be very hard for her to watch him decline, especially reverting to old patterns.  ~Oneta

[bigmikesmom]

Claudia, I will pray for your mom and Greg. I have worked with many allzheimers patients and it is a horrible didease. I am so sorry.

BigMikesMom-Patti

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti & Oneta, Thanks so much for praying for my folks.  My heart is so heavy for my mom.  She really is a wonderful woman, and after all life has dealt her, this certainly turns her life and world upside down....

[sheela]

Claudia i will be praying for your mom and Greg also..

i just wanted to chat a bit and let every one know what i am up to lately, since i dont have my mom around to chat too i guess i will chat with you all here if thats ok once in awhile about whats happening in my life if anything at all new :0)...

i turned off my dsl today and am sending back the modem i was renting out each month. i just cant afford to keep it going any longer at all. which is ok i can live with a slower speed computer i guess LOL. at least i have a real nice computer many people dont even have that much. i got mine after i had saved up for along time and got extra storage and memory on it and i love it, it works great.. it is so much better than my first one, which was a refurbished one that caught fire LOL i guess i tried to do to much on it or something. i put a new card in it and thats when it started smoking and almost caught fire. well that was the end of that one.. then i had to go with out a computer for along time till getting this one.. anyways, with the dsl cut off i will be able to save a lot of money that way... and i am also looking at other ways to save money as well.. they finally got the elevators to work in my building i live on the 11th floor and for like over a week or so, only 1 elevator was working at all and it was like a huge ordeal to just get in and out of the building, you had to wait for the elevator to come up like for maybe 10 minutes or so and then when you left the building you had to wait to get on it for like 30 minutes bc each time it came down there was at least 15 people waiting to get back on it to go up again, and thats just to many people at once, it will get stuck and then they will have to go to the hospital like last time they all did that. not long ago about that many people were in there when there was just 1 elevator and when it got stuck they had to take a few of the people in there to the hospital for hyperventalation etc. so when ever thers just 1 working, i wait to take it back up till theres not so many people in it.. thats sounds like a good idea to me.. so thats why it takes me about 30 minutes to make it back up again.. a real hassle.. i live in section 8 housing in downtown denver and thats all i can afford to do my mom and i have lived in this same apt for like 13 years now.. its the best we could do when we were together and now all alone it still the best i can do.. i got some pictures taken with a cheap little disposable camera and finally got them developed a few days ago well there machine was broken down so i couldnt get them till yesterday which i did. i got her from the no kill max fund shelter she had been in a cage for about 4 months the poor little thing was half starved from the cheap bad food they feed her etc. i know they tried hard to help many animals as possible but still the food those poor animals get is bad a lot of times, real cheap i mean and it doesnt more often than not agree with their stomachs and so on.. and they dont maintain body weight or gain any either..

they just get real skinny and sickly looking... like she was when i first got her. my mom lived for a month after i got her so she got to know her a little bit at least, i think she liked her, even though she said that she didnt really like cats much..

i dont know what i would do without little Mona, she has kept me such good company.. there has been so much lonely and quite times without my mom here in our apt..  after i got home yesterday from running errands etc i was so tired i felt like i had caught a touch of something.. i still feel that way today..

[4everjoeysmom]

Sheela, Hope you're feeling better today.  Your kitty is cute!  And thanks so much for your prayers.  God bless you!  -Claudia

[misshimstill]

Hi, guys.  I had a note written and lost it.  I'll post this one a little shorter because I have to get going.  Sheela, I'm really glad you feel that you can talk to us about things that are going on in your life.  I know that you miss your mom a lot.  This is just one more aspect of grief for you to have to deal with.  Your kitty is really cute!  I like cats, too.

Would you all mind praying for a friend of mine.  She's a lady I met here on BI.  I had the opportunity to meet her in person last fall when she needed someone to help her drive from Oklahoma back to California where she lives.  (Long story.)  Her husband committed suicide and the anniversary is about a month from now.  She's feeling very depressed and that she doesn't have any reason to live herself.  I told her I would get some people to help me pray for her.  Thanks in advance.

Hope everyone has a good day.  ~oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Praying....  You're a gem for a friend, Oneta. 

[bigmikesmom]

oneta, i will pray for your friend.God Bless you!

Bigmikesmom-patti

[misshimstill]

Thank you, you all.  She emailed me today and said she was feeling much better than yesterday.  She really appreciated all who prayed. 

How are all of you?  ~Oneta

[msroderskie]

Hi all,  WARNING:  This is pretty long-winded and some may not be interested in reading it -- and that's OK!

Yesterday, Feb 8th was the fifth anniversary of my second son's death, and I want to talk about it in hopes that it may help someone along the way.   Also because I just need to write about this where Christian siblings understand. 

I'm discovering that it can take five full years to even begin to digest the magnitude of the second loss of a child.  The night Matt died I was on the brink of falling asleep when I heard my ex husband yelling my name.  He had come into our house ahead of the police, apparently trying to spare me the horror of hearing it from the police, as he just had.  He met me at the top of the stairs and told me Matt had killed himself.  The first image that went through my head was of Matt going down to the pier, where Phil's accident had happened, to drown himself in icy water, since Phil had died there, and Matt had recently begun to blame himself for not heroically rescuing his brother.  But my ex said that Matt had shot himself.  My first words were so typically Mom -- "How did he get hold of a gun?"  Matt had gone to the house of a friend who owned hunting guns, a friend who had come home to find Matt in his living room.   Then I was led downstairs to face the police version.  The policeman who told me was so kind.  He was the first officer who had been called to the scene.

My husband was still upstairs asleep.  He's a heavier sleeper and had fallen back asleep assuming that whatever crisis probably involved some silly thing, like Matt getting into a fight, which he had done several weeks earlier.  So after the police left I wandered around our apartment.  I looked into Matt's room.  He had been staying with Steve and I while trying to establish some sort of life for himself.  Steve had left the light on in Matt's room, and had put his laundry away for him.  The bed was turned down in anticipation of Matt's return.  I looked into the room and tried to process the fact that Matt would not be coming home.  I couldn't grasp it.  I wandered around some more, trying to figure out how to pray.  I wondered if the police would let me see Matt's body, so that I could pray over him and maybe God would restore him to us.  I had never thought to do that in my shock of saying goodbye to Phil in the emergency room when Phil died.  Maybe God would do that for us this time.  It didn't matter that Matt had shot himself and damaged his body.  The Lord can do anything.  Later when I made the request, the police strongly advised me not to travel to Buffalo to view Matt's body, and I deferred to their advice.

After a while my husband came downstairs sleepily to ask what was going on.  I could not form the words "Matt died", or "Matt killed himself".  I literally could not say it.  Instead I said, "We have to call Jen and Michaela" (my daughters).  That's all I could say.  As Steve continued to question me, Michaela came in the door, having already heard from her father.  One look at my face confirmed what she had heard and she collapsed onto the floor.   Steve and I ran to her and as we hugged her I was able to come out with the words to explain what had happened.  The next several hours were taken up with trying to contact my other daughter Jen, who was away on a camping overnight at a cabin.  The one cell number we had to contact her was not giving us a voice mail message.  We finally had to get the state police to find the cabin (another mystery), and have them tell her to call me.  Though Steve had made all the other phone calls to people, I felt I had to be the one to tell Jen when she called. 

That night all I could think of was the large number of people who would be hurt, stung, crushed or disillusioned by Matt's suicide.  I prayed for his friends, because I feared a few of his close friends would want to follow his example.  Matt and Phil's friends have remained a primary concern of mine ever since the boys' deaths.  These kids need to know the Lord.  With my boys at least I could cling to the fact that they had each confessed Christ in their young lives and that is what I depend upon, even though neither of them was living life full-out for Christ when they died.  I know that both of them cried out to the Lord for mercy at that critical time and I believe that Christ took them in.  I believe their salvation depended only upon faith in Christ's atoning death for us, not upon works by the law. 

This brings me to last night.  After five years I finally have begun to process some residual anger and shock.  I talked to a photo of Matt, prayed, and read the Word.  I actually cried.  My times of crying over Matt have been rare, if you can believe that.  I have remained pretty much in a state of shock all this time.  My psychologist said that my body is in a constant state of "fight or flight" since the night Matt died, because of the startling way I was awakened with that horrible news. It's my body's way of constantly preparing for the next horrible thing that could happen.  So my eyes never close properly when I sleep, in fact, even when I blink according to the eye doctor.  This has led to a case of severe dry eye, one in a long list of physical maladies that can afflict us when we are grieving.  Multiple grief simply multiplies the physical effects.  So my husband, blessed gift from God that he is, regularly reminds me to care for my phycial body, so that I can remain a strong pillar in the family.  Spiritually, despite my emotional and physical challenges, I am the strong, stable one in my family.   And I remain strong only by staying in His Word, seeking His loving face very day.  God is so good to us.  

When giving my testimony I often say that I don't think we have the slightest clue about how great God's love is for us.  The corollary to that statement is that we don't have a clue about his perfect holiness either.  I believe that many large pockets of the modern church have strayed from the plain old gospel, where you have to understand the bad news so that you can really comprehend the good news.  We are all sinners who are naturally consigned to hell if we do not turn to God in Christ.  He is the one Way and there is no way that we should ever back down from declaring that truth.   The rest of my life I want to work more diligently to the purpose of spreading Christ's gospel, and loving those around me in increasing measure every day. 

Before signing off I have to quote a funny and poignant saying from Matt when he was only five years old.  Phil (ten years old) and Matt were talking at the breakfast table.  Phil said it would be fun to go back and be a baby again.  Matt looked at him and said, "Life goes on.  We can't go backwards - we can only forwards."  This kid was a deep thinker at five.  It was one of those funny stories we always told about Matt the thinker. 

Phil had some great lines too, but in a more offbeat way.   There's a sadly ironic  funny story about Phil from when he was about four years old.  I was walking with him on a street right next to Lake Erie in the wintertime, the lake where he would later drown as an adult.  I was admonitioning him to never get near the lake by himself, because it would be dangerous to fall into the icy water.  He said, "No Mom, when you fall into cold water you just get square."  It took me a minute to get what he meant and then I realized "this kid has watched too many cartoons!"   For the rest of our lives we will tell these little stories and recall the kid quotes that made us laugh or cry, because that is one way of loving our little guys who've gone ahead.  I invite everyone to share something funny or sweet about their lost loved one.  I don't believe in them "living" through our memories as some say.  Personally I think that is an occult view, but I do think there is something very worthwhile for us still living on earth when we share these stories of our loved ones. 

Sorry this was so long.  I had to write today.  Phil and Matt's Mom, Rody 

[msroderskie]

Sorry to ignore everyone's concerns in my earlier posting.  I will keep everyone in my prayers:  Oneta's friend whose husband committed suicide, Claudia's Mom and Greg, Sheela, and you ongoing struggles with life, money, etc.  I know money problems well.  It seems we always have some challenge before us.  Some years it was double funeral bill payments, or helping my daughter when her life went haywire, plus three periods of unemployment for my husband within the last five years.  It's been a constant struggle, and all the time we are trying to keep God's stated priorities with our money handling.  

Thanks for all your memories of Corrie ten Boom's story.  Yes, her honesty about spiritual struggles was an effective witness, just as the character flaws of people in the Bible help demonstrate the reality of it's historicity.

Claudia -- Bravo to you in rising to the challenges of no electricity plus hosting guests! 

[bigmikesmom]

Rody, you are an inspiration to me. Thank you . I just came over to this thread after writing a post on loss of a teenager. If you can make it, with what has happened in your life than I can too. You 'll have to read my post. In fact, my post is such a downer and your's is so uplifting. God Bless You! I will tell a funny story of Mike at a later date. What a good idea. You are so right, think positive things.I feel like I am going back down to that hole that Claudia talked about in earlier posts! I have to do something positive. Thank you !

PATTI-BIGMIKESMOM

[misshimstill]

Rody, 

I read your story and I'm not sure what my initial response is except to say, "WOW!"  I guess, first of all I should say thank you for writing.  No need whatsoever to apologize for the length.  Sometimes it just takes as long as it takes to say what is on our hearts.  Anniversaries are so important, they need to be acknowledged.  You have obviously, as a lot of us have also, grown so much through the tragedy/double tragedy of losing your sons.  Since I have never lost a child myself, I can only imagine what that loss would be like.  The struggle you moms and dads have gone through is unimaginable to me.  I don't know what to add to that.  It seems so insufficient to what I feel.

I guess second I agree that it does take a very long time for our bodies, minds, emotions, etc. to grasp what we've gone through and begin to deal with it.  It's been almost five years for me, too, since my "complicated" grief began.  If you're new and you're reading this and don't know what I'm talking about, you can glance back at one of my earlier posts on this thread.  At nearly five years I feel that I'm finally beginning to get a handle on it and feel that my life isn't going to be in total despair and despondency for the rest of my life.  I'm still so recently out of the "pit" that I can easily relate to anyone who says their struggling to stay out of the pit of despair and gloom. 

I was talking to my present husband just last night, as a matter of fact, who figuratively held my hand as I worked my way through this terrible thing called "grief".  I was just telling him that I feel that I'm just now beginning to recover enough to feel like (or half-way like, anyway) myself.  I was telling him that I nearly died as I cratered near the beginning of the time when my repressed memories began to resurface, and I didn't mean that figuratively; I meant it quite literally.  Over maybe a year's time I lost about 50 pounds, was sick all the time, was in pain all the time.  You talk about being in the "fight or flight" mode because of the trauma, and I can relate to that.  A shrink I went to said the same thing about me. 

I am so thankful that God has been here to hold each of us and carry us when we couldn't walk alone.  Others who don't share our faith don't understand when we say things like that, but I literally mean that I would have died if God hadn't kept me alive.  Corrie Ten Boom's story has always been meaningful for me because of what she went through in the Nazi prison camp.  She made a statement that when I read the book many, many years ago I've always remembered.  She said, "No pit is so deep that God's love is not deeper still."  God's love isn't a weak, sentimental love.  God's love is a powerful, strong force in our lives.  Yes, it's also "love" as we think of love (familial, sweet, etc.) but it's so much more than that. 

I believe, also, as you touched on, Rody, that your sons are in the arms of Jesus - both of them.  We make salvation such a hard thing sometimes.  I agree with your statement that we have also watered it down until it's nearly meaningless, but it's also simple.  Only the Lord knows our hearts.  He knows what terrible torment your son was going through before he took his life.  I loved what Claudia said about (it may have been on another thread so pardon me if I'm writing about something she didn't say here and confuse all of you) about Jesus crying at the tomb of Lazarus, partly because He knew He was bringing Lazarus back to this sin-infested world full of so much misery.  We know that God will always judge rightly.  We have His Word on that. 

As far as something funny my husband said, I can't think of any one thing right now.  He was a very funny guy and had me laughing constantly.  On my first date with him, he had me in stitches the whole evening, which was one of the reasons I wanted a second date and a third date and so on.  He loved life and loved people and people loved him.  I'll have to think of something to share.  ~Oneta

[misshimstill]

Patti,  I think we all understand that hole you're talking about.  We're praying for you.  His arms are strong enough to hold you and pull you up and He will do it.  ~Oneta

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti, I am lifting you up in prayer as those waves come crashing in...

Rody, what an awesome post!  I agree with EVERYTHING biblically referenced.  I don;t feel Joey with me, or living on here in my memory, or any of that.  What I do feel and know is that he is fully alive in the way he was intended to live, perfectly in the presence of the Lord.  And so when I think of him having gone away, like on a long trip, he actually has, and I can feel good about that, because I'll go on that same trip one day and meet up again with him.  I look at his photos and I hold some of his things, and I am very sad that I can't reach out to him.  I miss him so much.  But there is a larger part of me that God has shown with great mercy and love that I can rest assurance in Him.  He has Joey.  That is my comfort and peace in the wake of my loss.  And as you referenced, doing something to share the gospel message, I live that now with every opportunity that comes my way.  Since Joey's homegoing, I have witnessed to countless,and through our ministry here over a thousand people have prayed with us to receive the gift of salvation.  I'm not tooting nay horn.  Beleve me!  It's just that I am so amazed sometimes at how simple it is to "just share".  And in that sharing, I feel like I carry Joey with me, because it is his story and my testimony combined with his that I share--growing his legacy for Jesus as I cultivate my own.  He wasn't living fully for Christ either.  But I know Joey belonged to him, because during teh times when I did see Fruit in him, it was SO godly.  I feel very blessed that there is a way through my work here that Joey's story is affecting change and growth for the Kingdom.  It is one of numerous miracles God has done to turn this for good which was meant for bad.  I know it was the enemy;s desire to see me whither into a hole and become disillusioned with God.  I know it wa sthe enemy's desire that I never tell Jesus' story to another soul.  Oh how victorious is our Might God!  I am very, very blessed.  You're so right in how the church is forgetting the simple message of the Gospel.  It's been going on for so long, adding conditions to salvation, blah, blah, blah.  But it is solely through the grace of Christ's redemptive work in the blood--it is by HIS faith and obedience we are saved, not our own.  We share that simple message, and we are priviledged to do so.  And that is my only saving grace through the pain of this loss--being the hands and feet of Jesus, laboring for Him and loving it.  I cannot imagine my life being lived out any other way at this point, and for that I am thankful to the Lord for his grace and mercy on me...giving me the tools to carry on.

The summer Joey turned 21 was an amazing time.  He received Jesus and  particpated fully in a summer Christian camp for a week.  I still have the swim shorts and the t-shirt that reads "pray for surf" that I bought him that summer for camp.  Joey spent 3 months working for me as a marketing apprentice that summer.  I have the database "key" he created for one of the programs I was using at the time.  I read his notes sometimes and reminisce in the way he wrote.  He grew so much during that summer that I watched him become God's child.  A funny story--at the end of the summer a couple of his friends drove down from Illinois to pick him up and head down to Myrtle Beach, where they celebrated #21.  I remember going into a little shop with Joey and his friends to browse the novelties.  There was a rack of some oddball funny things, and on this rack was a type of gum packaged in cartoon wrapping.  It was called MULLET GUM, and had a male character on it with a mullet hair style.  I remember the boys practically rolling on the floor laughing about Mullet Gum when all of a sudden Joey looked at me and said, "Mom, dad has a mullet.  In fact, he's had a mullet for as long as I can remember."  And I said, "Yes!  That's true.  Your dad does have a mullet."  And the boys were laughing so hard I thought we were going to get kicked out of the store.  They bought a pack of that gum to take back to Joey's dad as a gag gift, which Joey's dad and I have laughed over since.  My son Joey was one for always bringing a laugh to a group or a situation.  He loved to laugh, and he loved to have fun.  I can just imagine him laughing in Heaven...  I can only imagine...  But I am thankful for the beautiful image of that, that comes to me when I begin to feel sorry for myself in missing my boy.  God is SO GOOD.

Love and blessing to you all, -Claudia   

[wyomingsal]

Rody,

Thank you for sharing the story of your boys with us.  I remember too well the shock and horror of the police telling me my son was lost in the river.   I used to say I couldn't imagine losing one of my children.  Now I don't imagine....it is a reality and I have had to learn to cope.  Somehow I am slowly learing to weather this storm.  I hate it every day but I trust God knows the whys and they will work together for the good of Joshua and hopefully his friends that were left behind.   But I still can't imagine losing 2 boys.  I think again of The Hiding Place when Corie's father told her God will only give you what you can handle at that time and he used an illustration of when he held onto her train ticket until it was time to use it.  I don't have to deal and cope with the horrible loss of 2 children unless it actually happens and then God will help me to get through it.  I still sometimes pray that God will let my living children stay living until after I die.   But I know the decision is not really mine and I don't really want the responsibility of eternal decions.  God is much smarter then me.   I know He understands how I feel and I know all things are his to decide.  My prayers are that all things will happen according to his will for all of eternity...but it is so hard to let go of what I want and accept that these decisions are His to make and not mine. 

I also think of a book I was reading by Barabara Johnson,  "Stick a Geranium in Your Hat and be Happy".  She just passed away last year.  But she lost two of her boys and after that found out another son was homosexual.   When I first read her book all my children were alive and I couldn't imagine how she was able to get through it.  I just could not imagine losing one of my precious children.  She learned to find happiness and humor in serving the Lord until the day she died. 

May God's peace that passes all understanding fill our hearts,

Sal

[4everjoeysmom]

Patti, I read your post on the other thread, and I just wanted to say how much I still struggle with motivation, to actually "do".  I enjoy what I do when i do it.  But it's difficult to get my self into gear on many days.  I used to be so hard driven.  I used to have such energy and drive to get things done.  I still accomplish plenty.  But it's a major effort so much of the time.  Something in me of that part of me snapped and completely changed after losing Joey.  I don't know if I will ever be the highly motivated person I used to be.  And it wouldn't matter if I became one of the many motivational products junkies of the world, I just don't know that I will ever "feel" that way again.  Don't get me wrong... I am learning to live again in a very different way.  But it is taking time.  It's an uphill climb.  I know you had a fantastic 2 weeks in NC, because you shared so much and felt so upbeat.  Please don't feel like the joy is all over now because you've had an emotional setback.  This too takes time.  I think sometimes because we evaluate our new normal and try to compare it to what our old normal was, we set ourselves up for disappointment and feelings of hopelessness.  We won't ever be the same as we were before.  We may never have or be certain things that we had or were before.  But that doesn;t have to be a bad thing.  We just have to journey along and try to adapt into what does feel ok now.  And even that takes time.  I remember after about 8 months I started to feel better in moments, and I would become really encouraged.  And then I would wake up and feel like I fell backward really hard and that it didn;t see like I would be able to pull myself up again.  But I did...with the Lord's help.

I just want to let you know that you WILL be ok again, and that I am praying for you!  Love, Claudia

[bigmikesmom]

Claudia, once again, you have given me food for thought. Thank you. You are so right, my life will never be the same. I have to think and be patient to find out what is in store for my life.I can't just do nothing and just exist until God brings me home.

Oneta, thank you too for your prayers and wisdom.

Thanks to all of you here on BI

Patti (BigMikesMom)

[misshimstill]

Hi, everyone.  I just want to add, for whatever it's worth, that I'm like Claudia described.  Used to be able to accomplish so much, but anymore I just don't have what I used to have to do all of that.  Grief really takes a lot out of you.  I'm not saying I'll never be like that again (able to do so much), but for the time being I have to accept my limitations. 

The biggest thing I think this experience has done in me is the great compassion I have for people going through grief.  I can cry with every story I hear.  I know how people are hurting when they lose someone so dear to them, I know the toll it takes on their lives to work through the grief, I know the pain we have all felt.  There was an article today in the Austin paper about a little boy who was found hanging from a hook in a school bathroom.  He was hanging by his clothes, so I guess he wasn't physically hurt by the experience, but he was so traumatized that two days after his rescue he died of cardiac arrest.  The school has no idea how it happened or why or who did it.  The investigation is pending.  I hear a story like that and I cannot imagine the pain those parents are going through or what would have prompted other kids (I assume other kids did this to him) to do something like that.  I'm sure they didn't intend to kill him, but they did, and that little boy's family will never be the same.  How do you help comfort those parents?  What do you say to them? because it doesn't seem there are words for something like that.  ~Oneta

[fujismum]

Hello everyone,

I've had a bit of a break from posting.I was wondering if it was making things even more difficult for myself by keep reading and focusing on loss and pain, although I also find the comments helpful and spiritually uplifting.Sometimes it's so hard just to know what helps and what doesn't.

Matt and Phils mum- I was so very moved by your account. Like many of us here coping with the loss of one child, it is a terrifying thought to lose another, and I personally am terrified of losing my husband.He seems so broken and works under such stress sometimes I fear his body will give out. But you have courageously faced a double nightmare, not lost you faith and somehow have found a way to go on.You are amazing.But I also realise you have no choice but to go on.

The toll that grief take on the body is immense isn't it? I too feel in a perpetual state of shock and anxiety, especially in the dark (news of my 17year olds death came at night) It doesn't really get any easier even 17 months on. I manage without sleeping pills of antidepressants but I am beginning to wonder if they might help calm me a little. I cannot imagine what effect this grief must have physically on us long term,surely it must leave us more vulnerable to any of the dreaded diseases.And whilst thoughts of dying are not oppressive to me at least , I would not wish my family to cope with any more premature losses. What do you all think about this- are you all struggling with physical symptoms as well as the enormous emotional pain?

There is no joy or pleasure in my life, just existing, trying to get through another day another night,nothing to look forward to except joining my lovely young son again one day Working and functioning  but not what I'd call  living .Plenty of pretending - pretending I'm Ok to my parents, my other son, to my work colleagues -people want us to be OK and soon tire of grief don't they?I don't want this to ruin my other son's life, I don't want him to one day say, "after Jamie died mum and dad fell apart and everything was ruined"I want to survive, I want to heal, but right now I am struggling to find a way through the relentless pain .It is so RELENTLESS.

God seems so far away just when I need to feel His presence and touch.

Sorry to be so miserable

Anne

[lagrangel]

Anne, you have expressed exactly how I feel at times. I told my husband I do not want to live to be old but I do not want more pain on the family. We do have a different outlook on life and death. Everyone especially the ones you work with expect you to move on with your life. I just do the best I can. I have never really broke down at work since Brent passed away in front of anyone in school.  I think all of us become good at pretending. I always try to put on a good face for everyone except my husband knows the true pain that I go through as well as him. Our two other sons live in another town. One goes to college and the other is married. Brian comes home every weekend but we usually stay extremely busy on the weekends. I make myself and my husband go out with friends, go on trips and etc. We are always glad when we do because we have a nice time with our friends and our mind is not consumed about our grief for Brent. My husband is my rock and he always give me pep talks. We know Brent is in a better place but it is just my selfish ways that has such a difficult time. I would not want him to leave the life of peace, happiness and eternity for his selfish mother but at times the pain is just so much. You do not realize the magnitude of pain when something like this happens. I had so many people at the funeral home that had lost children say "If I could only take your pain away" WoW I did not know at the time what they meant now I totally understand.  Today marks Brent's 6 month being gone from us and I hope and pray it won't be to hard today and overwhelming withpain. I told my husband we are doing a job after we get off work tonight delivering prescriptions to some group homes. It will keep us busy since we start right after we get off work from our regular jobs. He was game for it just to do something different. My son who is in college works for the pharmacy in the summer and on weekends and he asked if we would want to do this job on Monday and I said that would be great. The more busy I am the better my day goes. You were talking about taking meds. the only one I take is a sleeping pill at night. It helps me so much to get rest I could not shut my mind down when I went to bed. I was staying up for hours at night not sleeping so I broke down to get some help. You have done wonderful not having to take anything. Hopefully as time goes on I will be able to quit taking my sleep aide.  My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family today.  God keeps me going everyday and oh how many times I call out his name and say I can't keep going through this but he is so faithful and brings my tears to a stop and reminds me how he will never leave me or forsake me. Your son knows how dificult it is for you and your huband. Just like I tell my sons it would not be any different which child it is you heart is just so empty. I think our children understand and don't expect us to be the same. We go on trips, visit and babysit dogs and we are always so glad that we have our other children to keep us going. I think our children are very smart and understand the pain as well as their own pain. Love Lana

[misshimstill]

Lana and Anne,

I relate to everything both of you say.  My loss is different since it isn't a child (it was my husband), but it's the same.  Grief is grief.  It's been nearly five years for me since I started passing through this dark valley.  It is the worst thing I've ever experienced, but I find God's strength and mercy always in the midst of the pain and lonliness.  He does seem far away at times; I understand that feeling, too.  On the other hand, I know He's still there holding me up, carrying me, keeping me from falling too deep into the pit of despair. 

I suppose all of us know the feeling of putting on a false happy face for outsiders.  I do it, too, even at home.  I am remarried, and I don't want to cause my present husband any more pain than I already have by making him feel I love him less.  Still, I feel what I feel and don't feel I have the real freedom to express it to anyone.  So I write.  I write and I write and I write and I write, and then I write some more.  I don't know if any of you have journaled.  It's probably been the one thing I've done that has kept me sane.  I recommend it if you don't do it.

As for pills - I reached the point about three years ago of not getting such a little amount of sleep that I finally had to ask for sleeping pills.  I was prescribed sleeping pills and antidepressants by my present husband's and middle daughter's psychiatrist (they both battle constant depression).  He told me I could take the sleeping pills as long as I needed.  I took them for two years.  Then I switched the management of this over to my regular family doctor, who promptly took them away from me.  So now I sleep occasionally.  Last night was one of those nights when I didn't sleep.  I was awake from 1 a.m. all night long.  I slept only a couple or three hours before that point.  I have a lot of nights like that. 

I'm writing this just to say that I relate to how you're both feeling and also to maybe help you to see it's okay to get pills if they help.  Also, if you're having to "fake it" in front of work people, friends, family, you need to get your true feelings out in some form or another, so here is a good place to do that.  If you don't, you could end up repressing them, and that's really, really bad.  I've been down that road, too, and can tell you from experience that it's one to avoid.  Also, take your pain to the Lord.  He's really the only way I've gotten this far.  I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't both already know, but just feel I need to try to encourage you.  (I hope I am encouraging you.)  I am like both of you and don't have any desire to live a long life.  (I'm 56.)  I didn't used to be like this.  I used to love life and everything about life.  I've experienced a lot of loss in my life (other than my husband), and each loss focuses me more and more on Heaven where they all are.  But the Lord has made it very clear to me that my days on this earth are not over, and as much as I want to "wake up in Heaven" each morning, I know I have to submit my will to His. 

I pray for all of you ladies who post on this thread, most of you by name.  I will continue to do that.  Prayer is so powerful!  The Lord loves each of us so very, very much.  He both feels and carries our sorrow.  I hope everyone has a good day.  ~Oneta

[lagrangel]

Oneta, Thank-you for your wonderful words of encouragement. I do know the wonderful power of the Lord if I did not have him in my life I know I would not be able to continue on this journey. That truly is my salvation and hope of the future. I have called on him so many times in this journey of grief and he has brought me off the ground and into his loving goodness. It is always wonderful to hear encouraging words to make our journey more bearable. I think of each and everyone who continues on this journey. My love and prayers to everyone, Lana

[bigmikesmom]

Anne,iI totaaly understand where you are coming from. Ido no have any words of wisdom. I just wanted to say "I am so so sorry for your pain" I will be here for you to listen and maybe we can help each other somehow. I know how you feel about God. I do believe He is Holding us up right now, otherwise I know we wouldn't survive,how could we?

Lana, It sounds like you are really doing all the right things. I am so glad that you Can do some things to bring you enjoyment,at least on the weekends. You sound so strong. Thank you for your comments.Your husband sounds so supportive. I try to do things but it just doesn't bring me any enjoyment. I just want to get back home. I guess that is why I am now on 2 different anti-depressents, hopefully the second one kicks in soon.It has been 1yr 2mo,19days since Mike went home to God.

Oneta, It is always great hearing from you. You are an inspiration to us here.

Love to you all,

Patti BigMikes Mom

[lagrangel]

Patti,

  I do work outside the home. I went back to work two weeks after Brent went to be with Lord.  I am an elementary school counselor.  It was very difficult and hard to be around others at first and I just wanted to crawl in a hole. I stayed to myself for several months and still don't do alot of the eating gatherings we have at school. I really have to say my two dear friends were so persistant in helping me. I did not call them for months because I just could not pick up the phone but they would call me and not give up on me like others did. I finally started doing things once again with my friends. My husband and I go out to eat with our friends and are planning a vacation with my best friend and her husband. I do have to say one thing for sure you really know who your true freinds are. I always told my two dear friends that the Lord had brought us together and I had always been so blessed to have such special friends. They have helped me so much the last 6 months and I truly know why the Lord had brought them into my life. It is still very difficult but we just keep pushing on. Happiness I don't know if we really know what it is anymore but we try to do things that will keep us busy.  Today Brent has been gone 6 months.   After our regular jobs we made runs for a pharmacy my son Brian works for on the weekends and summer. We did not finish until 8:30 this evening but it was something different for us intead of sitting at home this evening. When we sit at home it is just that much harder for us. I hope Patti things will get easier and the hurt dulls for you as time goes on. I do think working helped me because if I would have been home I think I would have stayed in bed and not ever wanted to get up and be part of the world again. I just thank the Lord everyday the strenght he gives me to continue on. There are days I am strong and other days I feel so fragile. My prayers are with you, Love Lana

[bigmikesmom]

Lana, thanks for your kind words.

I just figured out how to post a pic,my computer skills are not the best.Here is a pic of Mike with friends from the girls soccer team at the university.

Patti-BigMikesMom

[fujismum]

You are all such lovely people on this site, thank you so much for picking up my thread and sharing your thoughts form across the miles. Oneta, you are a very wise and spiritual person and your calm words often soothe me.Your faith seems rock solid. Why is my waivering so after a 40 years of living my life on a solid foundation ( I have just turned 50). I cry out to God all the time, everyday I ask to filled with the Holy Spirit and be comforted, I read the Word, I pray , I have fellowship with others. I am going through the motions but I don't feel any sense of God with me. But maybe I underestimate the fact that He is with me and keeping me going through the agony.

I also feel so let down by our church family, even our minister just seems to not know what to do with us and avoids us. So many of our church friends say the stupidest things, they just don't get the enormity of this and certainly have no patience with the length of our grief- which we know is only just beginning. I know they CANNOT understand the pain, but all the same I though Christians would be a blitle more sensitive.  We do get support form other bereaved parents, there is a wonderful organisation called Care for the Family in the UK that offers support. Other grieving parents are the only ones who understand. Like you all. And I am so glad I can talk with my husband and he often gives me wise counsel when I am at my worst. I thank God for him.

Lana thank you for your words, and Patti - I wrote on the other site to you. I am getting confused using both threads so I may just stay on this one .

Where is Claudia?

Love to you all and thank you for prayers.

Anne

[msroderskie]

Hello everyone,  Thank you so much for all the feedback on my posting about my son's anniversary.   You all helped with your comments of support. 

Patti,  What a handsome young man Mike is!  I do look forward to reading about memories you have of him, and that goes for all of you.  Patti, I will keep you in prayer.  My heart goes out to you in the struggles your facing right now.  Lord, help Patti to find her strength in You, even when it may not be an obvious emotional feeling, help her to realize that You are right there, keeping her going, caring about the pain she is in.  Help her to know, deep within her soul, how much and how perfectly You love her.

Claudia, Your story about the Mullet Gum was funny and so endearing.  I have never heard of that gum, but will probably never forget it!  And praise God for the great witness He has given you.  Your willingness to follow Him wherever He leads is inspiring to me and I'm sure many others.   Your comments to Patti about the ups and downs of grieving were right on target.  It is so true that grieving is a roller coaster ride and we must expect many ups and downs emotionally.  My grief counselor friend used the roller coaster analogy from day one.  I don't know if that experience ever ends, but over time I think the ups and downs become less severe.

 Anne, meds can be vital to get past the most intense depression while we grieve.  Right now I'm on a very low dose of anti-depressant, that has been part of my grieving process for years now.  Since it's now down to a quarter of the full dose, I'm going to ask the doctor to completely wean me off it. How much difference can it be making really?   Anyway, the point I'm driving at is the one that my counselor friend makes when she says,  "You have to work on your grief".  She always advises people to take the tools we have for grief and use them consciously.   I've learned to use writing, singing, sharing in grief groups, talking to the boys' photos, and the ever-present pouring out my heart to God (truly the most important "tool").  And yet, in the middle of listing what I find useful I do not want to sound trite.  These tools are not cure-alls.  They are just tools that I think God has blessed us with, and the most important element within all of them is the sharing with others, I'm thinking.  Whenever we share our deepest grief feelings with God or with other people, there's a critical exchange that takes place, which I am not able to define.  I found this exchange happening at my first son's funeral when people walked up to me, hugged me and said they were praying for me.  Even from the folks I did not know I felt a sort of intangible help or undergirding, that simply had to be one of the ways God strengthens us.  I felt the phenomenon, but I can't explain it.   There is undoubtedly a greater connection with other grieving parents when you have lost a child.   When my grief counselor friend who had lost her daughter years before, came up to me at the first funeral, I broke down with a wave of sorrow that was much more intense than when I greeted others. 

Yes, God seems SO far away at times, and yet we can know that He is definitely there, and at times we can feel Him present in the love and support we get from others.  Sad to say that even we Christians can be clueless when we have not experienced the pain of losing a child.   Was it you Anne who was commenting about people at church not knowing how to handle your grief, even avoiding you?   I guess I look at that as a kind of ignorance that is common to us all, unless we've experienced this pain.  You will find comfort among people who are also bereaved.  But try not to be too hard on people who've not gone through this.  They truly don't have a clue.  I remember not knowing WHAT to say to my counselor friend when she first lost her daughter.  What a shock to later be in that same position and suddenly understand how horrific it is.  I reached a point recently where I was angry at someone who didn't understand my pain, and realized that if I weren't careful, I could end up wishing the same would happen to him.  Yikes!  That's not exactly the road that God would have me travel.  I had to consciously maintain the attitude that I don't want ANYONE to ever join this club.  But I need to prepare to help those who inevitably will.

Thanks again to all of you, my wonderful sisters for sharing what's on your hearts.  Love in Christ,  Rody  

[4everjoeysmom]

I am here Sisters!  I have been trying hard to catch up with a LOT of correspondence that has been in my inbox for a while.  I'm SO behind...

Patti--LOVE the picture of Mike!!  He dwarfs those "little college girls".  I thought my Joey was a big boy, but wow!    Beautiful Mike!

Rody, I so appreciate your candor.  You are right in that if we aren't careful, we can find a little bitterness taking hold and coersing us to think more negatively against people rather than having Christian compassion and empathy with the realization that they just don't understand.  How can anyone understand, really, that has not walked a mile in these shoes?  I attached a poem to my Facebook profile abut "These Shoes" worn by a mother who has lost a child.  Someone once posted it here on BI.  I'll have to paste a copy here for you all.  It's so true.

Anne, God IS with you.  It's so hard to feel His presence most of the time, because we are so conditioned to respond through our senses--by what we see, hear, smell, taste, etc.  And because the Lord is so patient and merciful, He hangs out with us even through the times when we are screaming at Him because we can't feel Him near.  But He is near.  In fact He weeps with us in our sorrow.  Sometimes I wonder when there were times that i felt I could possibly have no more tears to cry, if it was the Lord's tears falling through my numb cries.

I just finished a book called When I Lay My Isaac Down.  It was really moving and chalk full of godly wisdom.  But the author was so real in sharing the stages of her grief and the emotions that consumed her that at times weren't so godly.  This woman is a strong woman of faith, so it was encouraging for me to see how human she is.  But I also noticed how strong Christ shined through her life in her weakness.  And isn't that really what God wants?  He wants us to stop putting on that phoney smile in front of others; the one that makes others think we must be so strong that perhaps we don't need their help or understanding because we have it all together.  I know for a fact some of my friends thought that of me for a time until I let myself break in front of them.  God wants people to see Him at work in our lives, through our suffering and pain, through our brokenness and tears, and through our climb to victories.  If we aren't "real" in front of others, how can they possibly see that it is God's supernatural strength and not our own that picks us up, caresses us and wipes our tears, and brings us rays of hope and light through the darkest of times?

I know exactly what you mean when you shared how your church, minister and friends there have failed and disappointed.  I still think back to something a leader's wife said to me when I was home recently--a woman in her small group lost a child of 12 years to a murder.  She went on and on and on about how amazing this woman is, how strong, how much a rock and source of encouragement.  I sat there and realized this woman speaking, who has a hard time being relational, found this the only way to connect with me.  But at the same time I thought how very odd that NONE of the credit or glory for this mother's strength was given up to the Lord.  It was all about shining light over the mom.  I knew better, but it made me realize how easy it is for us all to "take the credit" for how well things are going.  It's when things "go south" that we shake our fists at God and ask Him WHERE ARE YOU?  When all along He has been there, guiding us, giving us strength to breathe and take another step, and planting seeds of hope in our souls.  I think we put too much stock in "the man" and not enough stock in how much man lacks when they sit on the thrones of their lives instead of allowing God the main seat.  I think just because people are Christians, we expect they should be more this or that and less human.  The truth is that the work of redemption in each of us will continue to be a "work in progress" until we reach our glory in heaven.  Some bear fruit more fully and quickly, and some idle along slowly.  It's the nature of man.  I do still acknowledge that some who wrote me often before and never write now have hurt my feelings.  But I also forgive them for being human.  I am one too, and Lord knows I have disappointed folks again and again.  I don't count myself as special, really.  In fact, I think when I was home this last time I felt more rejection from people I love very much than I have ever felt before.  We have to remember that as we steer more and more towards God we become stronger pillars of salt and light.  People who feel personal conviction in our presence often think we are standing in judgement over them, when in reality sometimes it's just God presence in us that makes them uncomfortable and self-assessing.  That again is proof that God is with us.  I can give lots and lots of examples in how we can know God is with us, but I do believe that we truly know He is.  We just want to "feel more", because we have become so needy and dependent on Him--again, exactly where He wants us to be.  We are women after God's own heart, because we love Him and trust Him that He will bring us through this journey to a place of wholeness.  It may not be in this lifetime, but IT WILL BE!

That last statement reminds me of a lesson a dear friend taught me during a time when she was leading a Hebrews Bible study.  It is called "The Holy BUT".  Anytime we think or speak something hopeless or negative, follow it with "BUT" God can do this, or "BUT" GOD can turn this around, etc...  Make the comment after our "But" a holy reference to Him.  Glorify Him!  Worship Him with our next thought or words.  I need to do that more often.  I remember at that time I began to practice that pretty often, and it really changed my outlook.  Then it seems I stopped practicing that so faithfully after I lost Joey.  I NEED to get back into that beautiful habit of worship with the Holy But.

Well, I am off to do my devotional, and then to make breakfast for my hubby and I before I start again with my work for today.  I just want you all to know I am here.  I've been reading posts several times a day.  But sometimes I just remain silent.  I think God is like that a lot of the time.  He reads our hearts, knows us so intimately, but He is often silent, whispering to our hearts like a lover of our soul.  It's so hard to feel passion and intimacy when we hurt so deeply, but when we can open up to that, we do feel Him inside of us, with us, loving us.  He is our Lord and King, and He will never forsake His daughter, His bride.  HUGS to you all!!  Love, Claudia

[misshimstill]

Patti, Rody, Anne, Lana, Claudia and anyone else I may have left out -

Such a good and stimulating discussion!  Everyone has such gems to share!  On the subject of people who will/can/are able to share our grief, everything that has already been said is so true.  There's really nothing to add.  I'll only comment that I've seen, also, the way people who have experienced similar losses are able to encourage us, without even saying a word often, as opposed to those who have not experienced such loss.  It isn't their fault, really, except that it seems some try harder than others to try to put themselves in others' shoes.  My pastor husband and I have discussed this quite frequently.  He has a man on his staff who my husband says is "simply lacking the empathy gene".  He just seems to be incapable of feeling the pain that others feel - about anything - not just bereavement.  Others we know have never lost loved ones or experienced other hardships in loss, but are able to get right down there with others and grieve with them.  I don't know what it is.  Maybe God has just gifted some people with that ability and not others.  I think for a leader or pastor, it's a pretty serious deficit to not be able to do that, but it happens.  I noticed this problem even as a teenager when my younger brother died.  Some people seemed to be so caring and sympathetic toward my parents (for a while, and then it was back to life as usual for them), and others were really awkward about it.  My friends at school, as they were only kids, too, didn't do even as well as the adults and acted really weird around me for the first couple of days after I returned to school after the funeral.  After that it was just "normal" again.  No one ever talked to me about him, not even my best friend whose sister was the same age as my brother.  She told me just last summer (she brought it up) that she didn't have a clue as to what to say to me.  It was her first brush with death.  No one in her family had died, not even a grandparent, so it was just foreign to her. 

Rody, I wanted to just say one word about getting off the low dose of antidepressant you're still on.  Be careful.  I know it's only a little, and you don't think it could be doing that much to help you, but just be careful.  I've been struggling along with my grief for five years now.  I was on antidepressants for only about 2 or 3 months about 3 years ago.  I thought that was enough, and quit taking them.  About 2 or 3 months ago I had to get on Depakote for my migraines, and guess what?  It's also helping me to feel better!!!  It's a really, really low dose that I take, and I would never have thought it would make that much difference in how I feel emotionally.  But what I'm saying is that it is helping more than just my headaches! 

As far as God's nearness as opposed to His seeming far away, like all of you, for me some days are better than others.  I've gone through years in this grief of feeling like God was way off somewhere.  I wasn't sure where He was, but it sure didn't seem like He was very near.   That again is just one of the really, really hard things about grief.  Maybe there are some people who feels His touch, His nearness, even in their deepest grief, but I'm not one of them.  It's something I've really struggled with.  All any of us can do is keep reaching up to Him.  I know He holds our hands, even if we don't "feel" it.  He picks us up when we fall and kisses our boo-boos.  He holds us and carries us when we can't walk.  He dries our tears and never tells us not to cry because our tears make him uncomfortable.  He guides us even when we feel like we're walking in such darkness we can't even see our hands in front of our faces.  He speaks lovingly, even whispers, into our ears wonderful words of comfort.  I don't think I could get through even one day without Him!

I love having this thread.  It is so good to talk with people who understand grief and deal with it on the same spiritual level that I do.  Thank you all of you for coming on this thread and sharing your experiences, your low times, your better times (we can't any of us say "good" times, yet, can we?), what helps, what doesn't help, and most importantly your prayers.  Bless all of you today where ever you are.  ~Oneta

 

[misshimstill]

Hope every one is okay.  Just checking to see if anyone had posted in the last couple of days.  Valentine's day is rough for widows, but I made it through another one.  (Yes, even when you're remarried, it can be rough because there are memories...)  Blessings, Oneta

[sheela]

hi all i am here i just had to have a few days off bc i was on dial up bc my dsl plan was way too much money each month for me, and so i had to put a stop to it and find another one which i did this is much cheaper its way slower but thats ok...  hope every one had a ok day yesterday..  hugs to all

[wyomingsal]

Claudia,

Did you say you love to clean??  I need you here in Wyoming.  :?  We rent a house and we have an inspection next week and I am so overwhelmed.  My husband is still recovering from his knee surgery and I have to work during the week.  It seems everytime I get home the place looks worse then when I left.  BUT  (I ready your post below )  God is good and only expects us to do our best.  The rest is in His hands. 

Anyways  I have been having a hard day today.  I am off of work today and have been trying to work on the house but I keep thinking about my Joshua and wishing he were here.  It seems like when life's pressures overwhelm us we miss our Heavenly children even more.  When we are upset about something it brings the pain of our grief back to us even harder.  I have also noticed that PMS  (which I haven't ever struggled too hard with) seems to bring about waves of grief much harder then during the rest of the month. 

I hope every one is doing ok today.  May God's grace and peace be apon you today.

Sal

[bigmikesmom]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to look at Mike's picture and thanks for all your kind comments.Mikey was as beautiful inside as he was on the outside. He was so humble, which made him even more appealing. It's all so surreal and very very hard,as you all know.I just wanted to say Hi to all of you and I pray for all of us everyday.God Bless all of you!

Patti-BigMikesMom

[4everjoeysmom]

Sal, do you have a prayer chain through your church, or a needs committee?  I'm just thinking that if a few women (and maybe a couple of guys) got together, they could help you in a matter of hours get your rental in shape for the inspection.  There were a few wonderful folks that came to my aid on short notice when my house sold in a day and I had to hurry and pack up, clean, move basically many years of my life, all on my own, because my husband was already in Ecuador.  It can be really overwhelming, whether you love to clean or not.  Don't be shy to reach out for help if you need it.  That's what your Christian family is supposed to be there for--to help carry your burden.  You're right, any type of emotional letdown, surge, or even pms can knock the wind out of my sails and make me feel overwhelmed in thoughts of missing Joey.  I think that's a natural course as we process through our emotional turmoils.  Ugh..those pesky emotions...  they do me in on many occasions.

Hanging in there, and sending each of you a BIG HUG.  Love, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi Everyone,  I noticed lately that many thoughts are being shared as "new topics", and it's so confusing to me.  Lots to wade through before coming to just a few familiar threads these days.  I prefer to stick in larger community posts, I guess, because then it seems more particpatory as opposed to isolated and hagning out there...  I'm not really sure the concept is clear as to what that's all about...  seems like soon there will be a thousand threads that are just dangling with 2 or 3 comments.

Anyway, wow has it ever been a deluge here over the past many days--more mud slides, sketchy phone service, power surges, and so on.  One more month or so of this and then our summer season willa rrive--hopefully.  I find that when the sun doesn't shine much, I feel more inclined to be down and un-motivated.  I've been thinking about investing in a sun lamp for the 7-month-long rainy seasons here.  Even in the summer it rains; it is the rainforest after all.  But at least the sun shines brightly then, at least in some part of every day.

It's been a little silent on this thread, and I just want you all to know you're constantly in my thoughts and prayers.  Hugs, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

Wondering where everyone is...  I was looking through and considering posting on the other Child Loss threads, as I often do, but recently the flux of topics I am uncomfortable with (signs, resources not bible-based, etc) and so I feel lost there.  It used to be that folks talking of signs and ADC's posted mostly about that topic on the ADC thread.  But it is going mainstream to the max, like a preferred way of coping with loss, and I really can't particpate in that...  I just don't believe our kids can do that.  If they were spending time focused on us and relieving our pain, then they would also still be tasting the sting of death, tears, pain and so forth...  and that just isn't biblical by any stretch.  I don't know...  I guess I am realizsing that I am in a minority and more an outcast in this world as time passes...  but I'm ok with that.  It's just a little lonely at times...

My mom called this morning, and we talked a little about trials and keeping our focus on drawing strength from Jesus.  Her husband had been hospitalized recently for several strokes, seizures, and alzheimers.  Yesterday he was released, but into a nursing home.  He is falling apart very rapidly.  I feel horribly sad for my mom.  What a horrible loss in seeing him unable to walk more than a few steps, wearing diapers, having mini strokes, and so on.  We're praying for a miracle--meaning either heal him or take him quickly, because the deterioration like this is torture.  Please help me to be in prayer for them.

I miss you all.  Be blessed.  Love, Claudia

[daniellemom]

Claudia,

I will continue to pray for your Mom and Greg. I'm sure it's very hard on you and your Mom. I know you would like to be with her during this time of troubles.

I've been away awhile this seems to be getting harder than softer. But with God's help I will make it.

For the signs while I've been reading and wondering why Danielle didn't send me a sign. Then I know why there are no signs from Danielle because she is in heaven with her Lord and Jesus Christ and she has not given this world a second thought. When I see her again she's going to think it's only been a second since I saw my Mama. I love her so much and know that she is happy and I do think she has run into your Joey and they are friends and praising Jesus together.

I do think that heaven is a fun place and that Danielle gets to do somethings she loved to do here, live play softball and volleyball I may be wrong there and I'm sure that doesn't matter because she is with the Lord.

My prayers are with you all. The next time you talk with your Mom please let her know I'm praying for her and my chruch is also praying I've requested prayer for your whole family. Hugs

Prayers,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

[4everjoeysmom]

Sonya,  THANK YOU SO MUCH!! For me, the very hardest thing about being a missionary, far from home, is that when my family members are in crises, it's excruciatingly painful not being able to go and be with them.  I appreciate the prayers of you and your church so very much.  I will also let my mom know, because knowing prayer warriors are gathering on your behalf brings comfort.  God bless you!

Yes!  I believe our kids are doing things that are especially designed around the talents and gifts God borne into them.  And I can just imagine your Danielle being right there, spiking a ball right in Joey's face and laughing. 

To be in Heaven is to be Home and Free.  I am looking so forward to going home one day...  Love, Claudia