Loss of an Adult Child

[mysonrich]

Amy, I'm sure our angels are still laughing at my attempts to wish Ashley a heavenly Birthday after 2 days of trying ! It is my wish for you that the joy of her birth, the memories of deep unconditional love born with her on that day found the way to your heart,always cherished..

Polly, sounds like a magical visit from Chad. I'm sure it was amazing to see such a site,of running free.

Dee, sounds like a good time in the city. Something about the hustle and bustle that takes the ache away at times.

Carol, keeping you and Ralph close in thought and prayer. Your day of family,though not complete in so many ways,the warmth of the day comes though in your words.

Trudi, I had no idea Mal's illness could or would lead to any type of permanent “disability” To improved health!

Susan, I'm sorry that you had the encounter at the shop.I know very well how fast my blood boils now. I feel the simmer and wham,its there. I was never a very vocal person before Rich died. I mean ,I spoke to people kindly but for some reason when I am up against the same BS you dealt with, the fuse runs short. Betsy is gone and I'm not sure who this person is yet.

Kate, the bright light of your son shines through.

I have a slight cold and as I said some posting,reading issues but I think I fixed the darn thing . Sarah and I had a great time in NYC for the pre-Thanksgiving Day parade event. We didn't want to deal with the bazillions of people at the parade so we went for the tamer of the two. There were many,many people at the balloon inflation and everything peaceful and orderly. A dinner of Chinese food,a stop at Trader Joes and off to Brooklyn on the subway. This semi-old,semi-young,semi-middle age woman was tired! The next day we drove back to NJ and I retrieved my car from the station. Sarah went on to her dads.

And Lori, yes, I was angry too. It seems the more I try to do the things I once did, the deeper I slide back sometimes. On the other hand, it may seem like work now because I have been away for 2 years 9 months. Trying to live as my son would have liked is not easy. Its work.

Everyone,my Thanksgiving meal was cold turkey and a small amount of fixin's. I let the children of my aunt handle the work here this year. I let them know I was not up to all the preparation with out more help. Spoiled bunch they are. Anyway, may we all rest tonight, find some peace in our dreams.

[Guest msnher]

Kathy - Gary and I are the same way with our three grandchildren. Grateful for the break and more grateful to get them back. Last night I stood and watched each one sleeping.

[mikesmomrs]

Susannah: I've always believed that all of our angels know each other, and thus the venturing to an al-anon meeting by both of us, each of us at almost opposite ends of this country! Cathi and I also came out with some new views. It sure is going to be tough! I love you, too, my sweet friend.

Kathy: Jess was with you, surrounding you with her sweet spirit.

Betsy: I am glad that you had a good time with Sarah. Mike's Sarah was a balloon handler one year, and oh how much he wanted to go to New York for New Year's day! Had it not been for it being their first Thanksgiving with Damon, he would have likely opted for a trip for the T-day parade! The next year, it was too late. I am sure he's been at every one since, perhaps giving those balloons an extra lift!

Kate: Yes, I do think that part of the problem with the holidays is that they cover such a lengthy period of time. Also, that our angels all loved them, and the years that we had with them, no matter how many, were such a huge part of the year, surrounding our heart with the opportunity for many memories to be made, treasured, and brought out again. Unfortunately, that can also be a two-edged sword when we lose someone who was so much a part of all those memories made. When Mike died, it was October, and Christmas was just a little over two months afterwards. Sarah and I both knew that his kids needed to keep making those memories (they were 9, 8 and almost 2 when Mike died), as well as remembering all the old ones, though Damon was too little to remember any of it. She did such a wonderful thing for the boys---she got every single picture she could find of Mike with either each or all of his boys, asked me for all of mine, and made a copy of them for each of the boys, and put them in a photo album. We actually had bought the albums to put together while Mike was still alive, so that he could write captions beside each picture. His life after his diagnosis went too swiftly to accomplish that, so the albums were still empty. On the cover, it reads "Love...lasts forever." So, she filled them for that Christmas. She also made boxes for each boy, and put some mementos into them for each of them...concert tickets, drawings they had done for him that he had kept, books, little trinkets that Mike had, etc., spread out amongst his three young sons. It was heartbreaking to open them, but the boys were so very excited about them. Held onto them for quite a while before they ventured to open anything else, and to this day they are one of their most treasured items. Anyway, I ramble. I am sorry. Bringing our memories out sometimes can start us down a road that just keeps taking us. If it weren't for those boys, that first Christmas likely would have been a lot less of a "to-do" (much to Mike's dismay, I am sure).

I think that one of the most important things we have to remember, and not just for the holidays, but they do make it more front and center, is to do only what we feel we can do, and nothing more. We are walking on thin ice, especially around the holidays, and treading with caution is the key. I found this poem that year, and though it rings with sadness, it comforted me somehow, and I have read it every year since. I posted it here, also, and I will post it again, for those who just can't get into this joyful spirit yet, whether it is because it is too soon, or it is because we find it hard no matter how long it's been. These words evoke different feelings in each of us, I'm sure, though running along the same thread, but I think the second line in the last verse is the one most significant to each of us: "Tell me you remember."

I want.

Stop the children’s singing,

The voice I long for has been stilled.

Turn out the sparking lights,

They are no longer reflected in his eyes.

Close the shops, lock the doors;

The gift I want just isn’t there.

Take away the Joy, the Peace on Earth,

the Season’s Greetings.

I want company in my misery.

Throw out the baubles, the ornaments,

the pretty packages;

I can’t see them through my tears.

Light a candle in his memory,

Tell me you remember,

Send me a blanket of pure, white snow,

To cover the Earth,

and his place in it.

author unknown

[ericasmom]

That poem is beautiful Carol. SImply beautiful. Thanks.

Well it is the end of November, holy cow. It moves quickly even on those days that don't seem to move at all. The memories of Christmases past are lovely to look at now for me but way back when loss was new, it was far too painful to go there and yet I could not help but go there. Obviously then, I was stuck in the sadness that is loss. Eri started making her birthday list (April birthday) soon after Christmas adn her Christmas list, soon after her birthday. She loved gifts, loved receiving them, was always a gracious receiver and loved giving gifts. LOVED shopping for gifts for others. She was good at it too, capturing the right thing for each person on her list. I miss her enthusiasm for Christmas. She and I always picked out the tree and when JOn was under 11 he always did too where as later on, he left it to us but took part in decorating. I so miss her on the tree- lots saying, "Momma, look at this one, no wait, this one, what about that one, it has little pine cones?"

[ericasmom]

some photos:Jon John and me, the view of the gorgeous church, and Jon and Shan

[ericasmom]

had trouble with this one.

[ericasmom]

Aren't they pretty together?

[Jeff's Mom]

some photos:Jon John and me, the view of the gorgeous church, and Jon and Shan

That is one gorgeous family! Dee...your dress is just stunning. Thanks, for sharing.

[lolynbo]

THE FAMILY AT THE CEMETERY WITH OUR WEAR GREY IN MAY TS.....COLD AND VERY WINDY

[lolynbo]

DEE U LOOK BEAUTIFUL...

[Jeff's Mom]

Susannah: I've always believed that all of our angels know each other, and thus the venturing to an al-anon meeting by both of us, each of us at almost opposite ends of this country! Cathi and I also came out with some new views. It sure is going to be tough! I love you, too, my sweet friend.

Kathy: Jess was with you, surrounding you with her sweet spirit.

Betsy: I am glad that you had a good time with Sarah. Mike's Sarah was a balloon handler one year, and oh how much he wanted to go to New York for New Year's day! Had it not been for it being their first Thanksgiving with Damon, he would have likely opted for a trip for the T-day parade! The next year, it was too late. I am sure he's been at every one since, perhaps giving those balloons an extra lift!

Kate: Yes, I do think that part of the problem with the holidays is that they cover such a lengthy period of time. Also, that our angels all loved them, and the years that we had with them, no matter how many, were such a huge part of the year, surrounding our heart with the opportunity for many memories to be made, treasured, and brought out again. Unfortunately, that can also be a two-edged sword when we lose someone who was so much a part of all those memories made. When Mike died, it was October, and Christmas was just a little over two months afterwards. Sarah and I both knew that his kids needed to keep making those memories (they were 9, 8 and almost 2 when Mike died), as well as remembering all the old ones, though Damon was too little to remember any of it. She did such a wonderful thing for the boys---she got every single picture she could find of Mike with either each or all of his boys, asked me for all of mine, and made a copy of them for each of the boys, and put them in a photo album. We actually had bought the albums to put together while Mike was still alive, so that he could write captions beside each picture. His life after his diagnosis went too swiftly to accomplish that, so the albums were still empty. On the cover, it reads "Love...lasts forever." So, she filled them for that Christmas. She also made boxes for each boy, and put some mementos into them for each of them...concert tickets, drawings they had done for him that he had kept, books, little trinkets that Mike had, etc., spread out amongst his three young sons. It was heartbreaking to open them, but the boys were so very excited about them. Held onto them for quite a while before they ventured to open anything else, and to this day they are one of their most treasured items. Anyway, I ramble. I am sorry. Bringing our memories out sometimes can start us down a road that just keeps taking us. If it weren't for those boys, that first Christmas likely would have been a lot less of a "to-do" (much to Mike's dismay, I am sure).

I think that one of the most important things we have to remember, and not just for the holidays, but they do make it more front and center, is to do only what we feel we can do, and nothing more. We are walking on thin ice, especially around the holidays, and treading with caution is the key. I found this poem that year, and though it rings with sadness, it comforted me somehow, and I have read it every year since. I posted it here, also, and I will post it again, for those who just can't get into this joyful spirit yet, whether it is because it is too soon, or it is because we find it hard no matter how long it's been. These words evoke different feelings in each of us, I'm sure, though running along the same thread, but I think the second line in the last verse is the one most significant to each of us: "Tell me you remember."

I want.

Stop the children’s singing,

The voice I long for has been stilled.

Turn out the sparking lights,

They are no longer reflected in his eyes.

Close the shops, lock the doors;

The gift I want just isn’t there.

Take away the Joy, the Peace on Earth,

the Season’s Greetings.

I want company in my misery.

Throw out the baubles, the ornaments,

the pretty packages;

I can’t see them through my tears.

Light a candle in his memory,

Tell me you remember,

Send me a blanket of pure, white snow,

To cover the Earth,

and his place in it.

author unknown

Thanks Carol for sharing. The poem is lovely and hits to the core. I feel that for me it is the circumstances surrounding his death. He was not killed in an accident, or fell ill. He never had a family or married. He simply gave up on the goodness in life and others...and in his defense he had some valid reasons. As his mom I feel as if I let him down in the worst possible way a mother can. I failed to give him a reason to live. To help him out of his darkness. So he decided not too. I will do whatever I can to make a positive change. But even tonight as the football game is on... and it is our home team in the biggest game of the season... I cannot sit still to watch it. It was something he would have done with his dad and friends. We were a mere couple of rooms away when he decided to end it. To think I was that close and did not know. I was watching Tv. It is very hard.

Tomorrow is another day. I will get up and keep going. And I am taking a leaf out of Dees book. I am going to suggest to my husband to volunteer at the shelter that Jeff was so active at for Xmas Day. Nothing beats pulling up your socks like helping others. It also helps you to forget. I need to wipe out that night. To focus on staying positive. And I will.

I know he is doing fine...I'm not.

[Susie_q512]

Kate - I am deeply sorry for the manner in which you lost your son. I lost Shannon under different circumstances, so I cannot fully understand what it must be like for you. I imagine that I would also feel a great sense of responsibility or failure. I imagine that I would be haunted by it. As one who has struggled with depression and mental illness, I know and understand that it is no one's fault that it happened. Since losing Shannon and beginning this new journey, I have come to view it the same....one just does not fully grasp the magnitude of it until they experience it themselves. The mind can be a very dark place. Irrational thoughts become rational. Urges and impulses become very hard and sometimes impossible to resist. He did not understand the devastation of his action....He could not understand it at that moment in time. My hope is that you will be gentle and kind toward yourself. It seems so hypocritical of me to type these next words to you as I am in a dark place and my faith in them is shaking at this moment, but I pray they weave their way to your heart: He is safe. He is whole. He no longer fights that battle. He is surrounded by unconditional and all consuming love and beauty. And, he is with you and around you still. He loves you truly, madly and deeply....and he knows that you love him.

I read a poem tonight about the cord that binds a mother to her child. It is stronger than the umbilical cord that sustained the child's life within us. It is stronger than any man made material. We are eternally and securely bound to our children for all of forever. It is the cord that now causes our hearts so much pain. It bruises and tears our hearts, but never will it be severed. I am trying to view this pain as that of the cord that still binds me to Shannon. Hoping it reminds me that we are still connected and inseparable. Maybe then, I will be able to bear it?

Praying that I have not offended you or any others who have lost their child in a like manner.

[ericasmom]

Susan, in your hand out to Kate, you are telling the truths of your own heart, there is a reason to believe that our Children are whole, they are loving us each moment in time as we do them, and that our connection to them is never through. It is forever. It is forever. The fact of grief is this, only one way to get to the side of grief that allows one to see the beauty in the day again, and that is through it. There are no shortcuts, there are no people that avoid the slippery and rocky and jagged walkways, we all go there, and we learn so very much along the way. NOt that we ever wanted to learn these things, but hey, we are in this place, an edge, a cliff, and going forward is where we find the light of our Babies, going backward is a false light and while tempting, it will only stave it off for a short time, staying still is what we do sometimes in order to realize our footing, realize our pain, realize the love that is so strong that we are ripped in half by it now, but we move forward ever so slowly until one day, not for a while, but one day the road becomes less tricky, the jagged more rounded, the depths of the holes we fall in less threatening, and one day we emerge carrying the light of our Child to light our way. I kno wit sounds simplistic, but it is how I see it, we emerge changed of course, morphed into someone that has her/his feet in two worlds, but to me, that is fine.

Kate, your Boy left this place as many have before him and many will continue to leave in the same manner. I understand the guilt however I doubt he was able to think ahead to how this would leave you and your Husband. You knew he was sad but how could you possibly know that he was in the shape he was that evening? You could not. Nobody could. I am so sorry Kate for the anxiety that builds in thinking of that evening. I needed help to change the constant rewinding of that night for me, I learned to do something different at the 8:00 time that ERi and I had spoken on the phone and then 30 or so minutes later being struck by the train, I listened to music, I wrote, I read, I danced, I took walks or called someone up so that I had to focus on conversation...the replay button still played on but eventually, with a conscious effort to change the habit of watching the events unfold over and over again, I was able to use that time and energy toward building better energy. It took time, and I certainly failed many times or went backward in my progress, but each time it was easier to get to the new place in my head adn spirit. What happened then was that there was more room in me for the good memories, they became the force inside me rather than the bad memories that ate up all the space holding the good. It takes time, and for me, it took being here and seeing my therapist as well as a lot of outdoor time and time talking to both God and Eri. Be good to your heart, the way Jeff would hope, remembering that if you were helping another parent, you would also instruct them in this manner. If I could change one thing for everyone here, it is the guilt issue.

I wish you all dream visits-

Thanks for the compliments on the photos, and Lorri dear, you look wonderful, young and pretty. I love the group shot of wear gray in May.

[mikesmum]

Dee - They look amazing as do you and John. I absolutely love the colour and cut of your 'frock'. You'd scrub up quite well

Kate - Losing a child is tough no one will argue that here. Losing a child by his/her own hand adds another dimension that truly has us second guessing almost every moment of their lives. At least it does/did for me. It took me over 2yrs and a final coroners report to say out loud "Mike took his own life". I have had two things told to me that were supposed to in some way 'ease' my pain. One was that suicide was a permanent solution to what to everyone else was a temporary problem. The other was that the pain of living far out weighed the pain of leaving. While these go in some way to 'explain' the in explainable, the guilt the whys the whatifs still rears its ugly head, though not as often and not as ferociously as it once did.

This past Sunday was our anniversary. I posted a note about it on FB. I got a response from an old school friend who had left school at 15 when her mum comitted suicide. Thought I'd share.

Happy anniversary ~ live each day as it comes and be thankful for past memories as without them good or bad we don't grow....enjoy tomorrow and forever with Mal and look for the GOOD in the past and leave the BAD back there where it belongs because it can't be changed....just saying..

Mal is slowly on the mend. Still lethargic, in alot of pain but managing to move around a bit. The hearing hasn't returned. These things are sent to try us I'm sure

[Jeff's Mom]

Dee - They look amazing as do you and John. I absolutely love the colour and cut of your 'frock'. You'd scrub up quite well

Kate - Losing a child is tough no one will argue that here. Losing a child by his/her own hand adds another dimension that truly has us second guessing almost every moment of their lives. At least it does/did for me. It took me over 2yrs and a final coroners report to say out loud "Mike took his own life". I have had two things told to me that were supposed to in some way 'ease' my pain. One was that suicide was a permanent solution to what to everyone else was a temporary problem. The other was that the pain of living far out weighed the pain of leaving. While these go in some way to 'explain' the in explainable, the guilt the whys the whatifs still rears its ugly head, though not as often and not as ferociously as it once did.

This past Sunday was our anniversary. I posted a note about it on FB. I got a response from an old school friend who had left school at 15 when her mum comitted suicide. Thought I'd share.

Happy anniversary ~ live each day as it comes and be thankful for past memories as without them good or bad we don't grow....enjoy tomorrow and forever with Mal and look for the GOOD in the past and leave the BAD back there where it belongs because it can't be changed....just saying..

Mal is slowly on the mend. Still lethargic, in alot of pain but managing to move around a bit. The hearing hasn't returned. These things are sent to try us I'm sure

Thank you for your kind words of support everyone. I am pleased to see that Mal is slowly recovering. And I definitely agree that the colour of Dee's dress was perfect given her colouring.

He was still alive but barely when we found him. We worked frantically to perform CPR until the paramedics arrived. He died while my husband was doing chest compressions. We watched him take his last breathe in stunned silence. The shock was unimaginable. They flew in here in a whirlwind of activity. The house filled up with so many people that I felt I had gone into a trance like state. They had everything with them. Heart paddles, they injected his heart with needles, etc. But he was gone. They would not let us into the room until the police had made a thorough search of it. They took pictures of him lying on the bed with a tube down his throat. They searched the medicine cabinet in our bathroom. Then they sat with us taking a taped account of what had happened. I watched while they wheeled him out in the body bag. It was freezing cold outside and the cart slipped on the ice and he almost fell off of the table. It didn't seem real. I was surrounded by Christmas decorations and it seemed unbelievable. The worst nightmare of my life.

We waited and waited for the coroner's report. They took forever. In the end it really did not matter. He was gone and how he died at that point was immaterial to me. I had died along with him that night. I do take one day at a time and try to keep myself as upbeat as possible. But it is the friggin Xmas stuff surrounding me that reminds me so much of that night. It is everywhere I turn. I want to go so far away to someplace that is less Christmas like. A warm tropical spot with no snow or Xmas decorations. Anything to help forget that night. My husband is doing his utmost to stay strong. He suffers from constant flashbacks as well. Has told me he simply cannot forget him taking his last breathe under his hands. Our family doc has offered me sleeping pills, nerve pills and told me to lose some weight as it would make me feel better. Weight loss is not the issue here. And it will not make me feel better. HELLO? My son died and pills are not going to make this go away.

I am very grateful to all of you for showing your support and thoughtfullness. It is truly helpful and I am sorry to be on such a downer. I'm being selfish. I miss him for me. I want him back for me and for a life for himself. I will never get over the feeling I could have helped him and perhaps it would not have come to such a tragic end.

Well, tomorrow is another day. Our team lost the game! Drat. My husband was not a happy camper at that. They should have won that one!

[Susie_q512]

Dee - They look amazing as do you and John. I absolutely love the colour and cut of your 'frock'. You'd scrub up quite well

Kate - Losing a child is tough no one will argue that here. Losing a child by his/her own hand adds another dimension that truly has us second guessing almost every moment of their lives. At least it does/did for me. It took me over 2yrs and a final coroners report to say out loud "Mike took his own life". I have had two things told to me that were supposed to in some way 'ease' my pain. One was that suicide was a permanent solution to what to everyone else was a temporary problem. The other was that the pain of living far out weighed the pain of leaving. While these go in some way to 'explain' the in explainable, the guilt the whys the whatifs still rears its ugly head, though not as often and not as ferociously as it once did.

This past Sunday was our anniversary. I posted a note about it on FB. I got a response from an old school friend who had left school at 15 when her mum comitted suicide. Thought I'd share.

Happy anniversary ~ live each day as it comes and be thankful for past memories as without them good or bad we don't grow....enjoy tomorrow and forever with Mal and look for the GOOD in the past and leave the BAD back there where it belongs because it can't be changed....just saying..

Mal is slowly on the mend. Still lethargic, in alot of pain but managing to move around a bit. The hearing hasn't returned. These things are sent to try us I'm sure

Glad to hear that Mal is doing some better. I will continue to pray that his hearing will return, or at least improve. I have heard that shingles can be very bad, but really had no idea that they could cause this kind of damage. As far as the things that "try" us, well, maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself, but I sure wish God would cut me some slack.....I keep looking up and saying, "Hello???? Do you see what all's going on here??? What are you thinking???" I'm all for learning life lessons, but I'm growing a little weary of class

As for the comments made to you, well it's true that suicide is permanent, however depression/mental illness is a life long war that is waged daily....certainly not a temporary "easy fix" problem. The pain of living outweighing the pain of leaving, well that thought was never in my mind during my darkest moments when I attempted suicide (2 times so far). I just acted....no looking back and no looking forward....no second guessing...acted completely on impulse. Last year I was in a manic state for several months. During that time I was having urges to violently harm myself....no pills and going to sleep, but stabbing myself to death. The urges came more and more frequently, then almost daily. I finally went back on medication. I am currently not medicated, and I could end up in that same situation again. I've spoken with others who battle depression and bi-polar disorder, and they describe it similarly. I have learned to be open and honest about this aspect of my being. My hope is that honesty can help others struggling with the shame and stigma attached to mental illness as well as reaching out to the survivors to shed light on what's it's like for the one battling these types of illnesses. Anytime you want me to shut-up about it, just tell me.....otherwise I will continue to be honest and open about it. Sometimes my honesty is brutal. It's an unpleasant topic that many people prefer to avoid.

[mikesmum]

Susan ~ I think you're right, when the darkest of dark takes us we are devoid of any conscious process that sees past where we find ourselves. I am sorry if my post seemed in any way insensitive, it wasn't meant to be. Mike fought depression for many years. He was medicated for pain, medicated for depression and in the end I believe he just wanted respite from the pain and the sadness that enveloped him over his last years.

Again, I didn't mean to trivialise the lifelong daily struggles that come with living with mental health problems.

As for the "these things are sent to try us", well I have on a number of occassions sort the number of the accountant upstairs. Many time I think they are double dosing us without a thought......Take Care

[mikesmum]

Gotta love that double post

[Susie_q512]

Susan ~ I think you're right, when the darkest of dark takes us we are devoid of any conscious process that sees past where we find ourselves. I am sorry if my post seemed in any way insensitive, it wasn't meant to be. Mike fought depression for many years. He was medicated for pain, medicated for depression and in the end I believe he just wanted respite from the pain and the sadness that enveloped him over his last years.

Again, I didn't mean to trivialise the lifelong daily struggles that come with living with mental health problems.

As for the "these things are sent to try us", well I have on a number of occassions sort the number of the accountant upstairs. Many time I think they are double dosing us without a thought......Take Care

I never thought for a moment that you were being insensitive or being trivial at all. My concern is always that when I speak honestly about it from the perspective of one who "has been there" so to speak, that I will cause offence or injury to those who have lost children as a result of these types of problems. I always try to stress the impulsiveness of the act. To remind people that the thought process for the one in that state is rational to them at that moment in time. So many wrestle with guilt and blaming themselves, but any type of mental illness is just that, an illness. It is often well disguised because of the stigma attached to it. I think that's why so many do not seek help, or speak openly and share the truth with others. People judge those with this type of illness. It is often brushed off as something that can be easily controlled with willpower or a change of attitude. If only it were that simple a solution. And then there's the cost of ongoing medical care and treatment that prevents many, including myself, from getting consistent quality care. It's misunderstood and fear causes many to shy away from this subject. It affects whole families and relationships. It's a very real and insidious illness. Not so long ago in our past, people with mental illness or any type of physical or mental handicap where shunned by their families and society. For centuries it was thought that these innocent people were possessed. We've come a long way since those days, but still there is misconception about mental illness. So, I only strive to open dialogue and be honest about it. I cannot stress enough that it is an illness. And people watch helpless as the disease robs the one they love from the joy of life. They watch the one they love struggle, and they are often helpless to stop the progression or the outcome. I feel for the parents and loved ones who have been witness to the destruction caused by mental illness. Many believe suicide to be a choice....maybe it is in some respects, but my experience has been that of impulsiveness and an irresistible urge. No logical thought process. And one cannot predict when a person will act on that impulse....it's hidden inside their brain, not in plain sight.

[mysonrich]

Susan, unfortunately mental illness is still viewed with disdain even as we as a society attempt to shine light on the facts,the physiological aspect of the illness. TV stars sharing their episodes of depression for example.

I had a beautiful sister once. My big sister. She was always the life of the party. A non-stop talker. When she would visit NJ after her marriage all my friends and neighbors would look forward to the date she arrived. She was fun. Somewhere along the line the thought came into her mind that she should be more like her MIL. Maybe she felt at the time that she was to vocal or to forward at her husbands business functions. I don't know the reasons but she was wrong.

That's where it began. A quake phys Dr or a Dr that saw a really good insurance policy. She said she was bi-polar but the old hard-body train case/cosmetic case she carried about told a story of someone that was not being supervised in the med dept. I crossed the line once or twice. Calling her husband and telling him my fears. Telling him my thoughts. I wanted to kidnap her and take her to Philadelphia for a detox or something. Did the over prescription of drugs lead to her death? I think so. On many levels the system failed her.

She died at 43 after an attempt to correct a brain aneurysm, a dirty hospital and septic shock. I must say though, that she never felt bashful in explaining to people what her illness was all about. I miss her.

Sorry for the rant Indigo’s. I do know this is not a mental health board.

[Guest msnher]

Betsy - Your post touched me on a very personal level. I needed to "hear" that at this exact moment, thank you. For years I have been trying to be someone besides who I am and it just never works out that way.

[Guest msnher]

Thanks to Marcia, I know what class I want to take....Spanish!

[Jeff's Mom]

I never thought for a moment that you were being insensitive or being trivial at all. My concern is always that when I speak honestly about it from the perspective of one who "has been there" so to speak, that I will cause offence or injury to those who have lost children as a result of these types of problems. I always try to stress the impulsiveness of the act. To remind people that the thought process for the one in that state is rational to them at that moment in time. So many wrestle with guilt and blaming themselves, but any type of mental illness is just that, an illness. It is often well disguised because of the stigma attached to it. I think that's why so many do not seek help, or speak openly and share the truth with others. People judge those with this type of illness. It is often brushed off as something that can be easily controlled with willpower or a change of attitude. If only it were that simple a solution. And then there's the cost of ongoing medical care and treatment that prevents many, including myself, from getting consistent quality care. It's misunderstood and fear causes many to shy away from this subject. It affects whole families and relationships. It's a very real and insidious illness. Not so long ago in our past, people with mental illness or any type of physical or mental handicap where shunned by their families and society. For centuries it was thought that these innocent people were possessed. We've come a long way since those days, but still there is misconception about mental illness. So, I only strive to open dialogue and be honest about it. I cannot stress enough that it is an illness. And people watch helpless as the disease robs the one they love from the joy of life. They watch the one they love struggle, and they are often helpless to stop the progression or the outcome. I feel for the parents and loved ones who have been witness to the destruction caused by mental illness. Many believe suicide to be a choice....maybe it is in some respects, but my experience has been that of impulsiveness and an irresistible urge. No logical thought process. And one cannot predict when a person will act on that impulse....it's hidden inside their brain, not in plain sight.

Betsy...I am truly sorry to have read the post about your sister. It's hard isn't it? Susan...Fighting those demons are a daily battle. Admitting to them takes courage and strength. Good for you making a determined effort to push ahead!

I was on another site last week regarding a band I love. One of the posts stated that it was the anniversary of a famous musician's death. They said they loved his music, but had lost respect for him, due to the circumstances. I almost lost it. I held my tongue but really considered giving my own piece of mind. What was the point? Ignorance is deaf and dumb!

If you ever feel the urge to harm yourself please think carefully about what I have said and how it impacted my family. We are going through hell and it is probably going to take every ounce of courage my husband and I have to keep going forward.

And unfortunately families can still shun their own. I am living proof. He may be gone, but he left us with a liftime sentence. He was a beautiful and gentle young man that deserved to be treated with kindness. We could only do so much. The rest was up to society. People can be beyond cruel in their comments. A lesson learned. Think before you speak is what I want to tell them.

Hoping for a good day for everyone. Thanks for your support.

Kate

[Guest msnher]

I think I'm caught up on the posts. Wow, a very deep discussion. First I want to tell Dee how pretty you looked at your son's wedding! And, Lorri, I love the shirts. "Wear grey in May"....I want a shirt. Do you have bracelets that could be worn all the month of May? Those plastic wrist bands?

Susan, I'm glad your suicide attempts did not work.

Kate, this time of year must be like pouring lemon juice on a severed limb. A continued pouring of agony as the reminder of Jeff's misery is all around you. No wonder you want to boycott Christmas. For Dee, it's broken train crossings. I know I think of Erica (and Joey) every time I hear a train whistle. For Colleen it's reckless advertising and/or kids being stupid when driving. For Lorri, it's cancer. For me it's everytime I see someone riding a four wheeler too fast. But, what can you do about something like Christmas? It's all around you. Each of us have the emotional "countdown" in us that automatically begins ticking as the date that represents the last time we saw, heard or touched our child. Yours is magnified in the fact it was not only a suicide, but it was a suicide that was carried out under your own roof. The ironic hypocrisy of what this time of year represents screaming loudly in your face as the picture of your son taking his last breath shouts anything besides "peace on earth, good will towards men". When my 18yr old nephew successfully took his own life, for years I refused to stand for our country's flag and would purposefully sit down when the military passed in a parade. He was a Marine and I blamed them.

Suicide v/s an "accident". Are there "accidents"? Is it all really written in the stars when our time is up? In many respects, my nephew's death was much more difficult for me to walk through than Stephanie's death. I felt SO responsible. I felt SO guilty. Much more so than with Stephanie. Why didn't I call him last week when I was thinking about it? Those kind of thoughts consumed me. A friend tried to comfort me by telling me that "If we have not completed what we were sent here to do, God will interferer with our death. If we have completed what we were sent here to do nothing we do will keep us here." She went on to say that includes suicides. She reminded me of all the people we know who failed in their honest attempts to take their own lives...myself included. I have a friend who actually shot himself in the heart and lived. We had a renter who shot himself in the head and lived...THAT told me to never shoot yourself in the head...you might miss and just shoot off your face and then have to live without a face. Since James did not leave a note, as a family we have all made a pact that if we ever kill ourselves we will leave a note...it's the respectable thing to do. So, when I tried, I left a book. Even in the face of death I talk too much.

I don't think suicide is always about mental illness and I don't think the mentally ill always try to kill themselves. This is where the "kooky" me comes in. The one I get embarrassed about sharing. Sometimes the veil (which isn't really a veil) is very thin between myself and the spirit world. Not long ago, while talking to my sister, her son - my nephew, came for a visit. I won't go into all the details of his visit, but he did explain why he killed himself. All these years and I did not know there was a gay soldier who claimed my nephew was homosexual. I asked my sister if there was a possibility...the slightest possibility that James had homosexual tendencies. She then revealed what this one soldier had claimed and how she hated him (the soldier) for it. I then passed on what James had said, "I killed myself because I was gay...not because of anyone or anything else. I didn't kill myself because of anything anybody else did, I killed myself because of who I was." My sister is a staunch Mormon and that is how my nephew was raised. He was also a proud Marine. In his mind being gay was too repulsive to accept. It's very sad. But, who he showed himself to be, NOW, was so free and happy...still a smart ass.

Jeff has sent you help to get through this terrible time, Kate. Hold onto those. The ride will be rocky, but he sent you a dream and a picture and a fox to let you know he's with you.

Much love,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

.

[rlolheiser]

Another bout with the computer.. I can get on but can't stay on. I have figured out that each time I crash my computer is trying to download a facebook plug in that doesn't work well with my computer. Oh well.. at least I am here today.

All is well here, I just try to cut the drama, can't seem to take it from my family these days. so.. I told them if they don't want to make the effort to make changes.. then don't keep bringing the same things to me.. I have my life and the job of trying to make my son's and grandaughter's life better. It isn't always easy to do.. Last night we put up a small tree, the old one kinda fell apart so we purchased a small one when they went on the after Christmas sale. It is pretty.. and Sena was so proud to put the ornament of her sister in it's spot. She says to me.. Grandma.. JaBoa would like to be here.. and I looked at her and said.. honey.. JaBoa is here always.. she is in you and my boy.. not a day goes by she isn't here.. and she seemed so happy.. It was a good night... NOw the rest of Christmas.. I am not looking forward to..

Saw JaBoa's mom.. she isn't facing up to anything. She goes to court on Tuesday and finds out what they want to do with her.. my heart is so torn with everything. I didn't get to see my grandson, as the foster parents had taken him out of town.. made me cry.. but I did got to visit JaBoa's grave site.. put up a small Christmas tree.. I am just never sure when I will make the trip again, mom makes my life so unable to plan.

My thoughts are with you all.. how I wish peace for you all through the tough times ahead and may the happy times you have shine with the face of your angels..

[lolynbo]

SUSAN SORRY I DIDNT RESPOND TO YOUR RESPONSE TO MINE....

YOU SUMMED IT UP EXACTLY HOW WE FEEL....ITS LIKE I CANT BELIEVE PPL LAUGH WHEN WE HURT SO BAD...OR THEN I CANT BELEIVE WE LAUGH SOMETIMES THEN WE CATCH OUR SELVES...IT DOES GET SOFTER BUT THE WAVE OF PAIN ROLLS IN WHEN U LEAST EXPECT IT....SPECIALLY HOLIDAYS, BIRTHDAYS, SUNNY DAYS, CLOUDY DAYS,DAYS THAT END IN DAYS......HUGGS TO YOU

I DONT NO IF I TOLD YAL, BUT THIS GUY THATS HELPING WITH WEAR GREY IN MAY, LIVES IN THE OKC AREA, I TOLD FB HOW WE WERE FEED BY COLLEGE KIDS THANKSGIVING AND HOW PROUD THEY WERE.....HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET A DINNER AND PPL TOGETHER FOR CHRISTMAS AND TAKE FOOD TO THE ICU WAITING ROOM WHERE WE LIVED FOR 5 MONTHS AND CALL IT KOURTNEYS DINNER.....I TOLD HIM IDK IF I CLD HELP BUT WLD PLAY IT BY EAR....ONLY BEEN TO HOSP ONCE SINCE....AND I HAD TO MAKE MYSELF...

COLD COLD COLD HERE TODAY...BUT TOM I CLD BE BY THE POOL THIS OK WEATHER IS CRAZY...SORTA LIKE ME

[lolynbo]

SUSAN SORRY I DIDNT RESPOND TO YOUR RESPONSE TO MINE....

YOU SUMMED IT UP EXACTLY HOW WE FEEL....ITS LIKE I CANT BELIEVE PPL LAUGH WHEN WE HURT SO BAD...OR THEN I CANT BELEIVE WE LAUGH SOMETIMES THEN WE CATCH OUR SELVES...IT DOES GET SOFTER BUT THE WAVE OF PAIN ROLLS IN WHEN U LEAST EXPECT IT....SPECIALLY HOLIDAYS, BIRTHDAYS, SUNNY DAYS, CLOUDY DAYS,DAYS THAT END IN DAYS......HUGGS TO YOU

I DONT NO IF I TOLD YAL, BUT THIS GUY THATS HELPING WITH WEAR GREY IN MAY, LIVES IN THE OKC AREA, I TOLD FB HOW WE WERE FEED BY COLLEGE KIDS THANKSGIVING AND HOW PROUD THEY WERE.....HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET A DINNER AND PPL TOGETHER FOR CHRISTMAS AND TAKE FOOD TO THE ICU WAITING ROOM WHERE WE LIVED FOR 5 MONTHS AND CALL IT KOURTNEYS DINNER.....I TOLD HIM IDK IF I CLD HELP BUT WLD PLAY IT BY EAR....ONLY BEEN TO HOSP ONCE SINCE....AND I HAD TO MAKE MYSELF...

COLD COLD COLD HERE TODAY...BUT TOM I CLD BE BY THE POOL THIS OK WEATHER IS CRAZY...SORTA LIKE ME

[lolynbo]

SUSAN SORRY I DIDNT RESPOND TO YOUR RESPONSE TO MINE....

YOU SUMMED IT UP EXACTLY HOW WE FEEL....ITS LIKE I CANT BELIEVE PPL LAUGH WHEN WE HURT SO BAD...OR THEN I CANT BELEIVE WE LAUGH SOMETIMES THEN WE CATCH OUR SELVES...IT DOES GET SOFTER BUT THE WAVE OF PAIN ROLLS IN WHEN U LEAST EXPECT IT....SPECIALLY HOLIDAYS, BIRTHDAYS, SUNNY DAYS, CLOUDY DAYS,DAYS THAT END IN DAYS......HUGGS TO YOU

I DONT NO IF I TOLD YAL, BUT THIS GUY THATS HELPING WITH WEAR GREY IN MAY, LIVES IN THE OKC AREA, I TOLD FB HOW WE WERE FEED BY COLLEGE KIDS THANKSGIVING AND HOW PROUD THEY WERE.....HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET A DINNER AND PPL TOGETHER FOR CHRISTMAS AND TAKE FOOD TO THE ICU WAITING ROOM WHERE WE LIVED FOR 5 MONTHS AND CALL IT KOURTNEYS DINNER.....I TOLD HIM IDK IF I CLD HELP BUT WLD PLAY IT BY EAR....ONLY BEEN TO HOSP ONCE SINCE....AND I HAD TO MAKE MYSELF...

COLD COLD COLD HERE TODAY...BUT TOM I CLD BE BY THE POOL THIS OK WEATHER IS CRAZY...SORTA LIKE ME

[lolynbo]

CRAPPY WEBSITE...

[Susie_q512]

Didn't rest well at all last night, but that's nothing new. I'm angry and confused. Last night my husband started judging my grief again. He then went on to say, "What about me? What are you doing for me?" I've tried to explain that it is difficult for me to carry my own grief, and it's hard to attempt to carry his as well, but he doesn't get it. We ended up in yet another argument in which he stated that Shannon was a spoiled brat, just like me....two peas in a pod. He called her a spoiled brat repeatedly. I don't care what he says to me, but took great offence of him name calling my dead daughter....our dead daughter. He and his family were very unkind to her during the last three years of her life....judgments, criticism, and attacks. I try to move beyond it now that she is gone, but I haven't forgotten what was said and done to her. I am not one to fall into the category of those who forget the imperfections of the deceased. I tend to remember them as complete....their goodness and their imperfections, and I try to understand why the imperfections exist within an individual. But, to hear my dead daughter called a hurtful name, well I was fighting mad. So, the question is for those farther along on this journey than I am: Is it normal or to be expected that a father would speak this way about his dead child? Is it just his anger coming out? ( I'm leaning toward he's an A-Hole.)

[ericasmom]

Susan, I can't claim to know why this man is doing this, but NO, it is not normal. I would say that his anger at her and you is coming out this way. Is he her biological dad? He certainly is acting as such, not that it would be permissible for a step-dad to speak in this way of a Child either. It is simply not acceptable for him to speak of SHannon this way and how is Raegan supposed to believe in her Dad's devotion to his children with this? My goodness, hasn't her heart taken enough? Is he mad because his bubble has been broken, he was the one that received so much attention for his illness and now what? He needs help, and if possible, you should both go to therapy to see if what has been said can be figured out and if your marriage can be put on better footing, but I think that I would let him know that his expression of anger is not to be tolerated and that he may have to move out if he intends to continue to slam your Girl. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this now.

As far as mental illness and suicide...there is not one family in the world that has not been touched by one's mental illness and if folks want to bury their heads in the sand and say, " NOT IN MY FAMILY, " they are just hiding from the truth. THe sooner folks admit there is a problem or issue, the sooner they can get some help, some relief, some assistance to living a full life. It should no longer be something we cannot bring out into the light of day to examine and discuss and learn from for goodness sakes.

Suicide can happen as a result of illness or simply someone reaching the end of their emotional rope at that particular time and not seeing a way to a different outcome. It is individual just like the people who ultimately decided on that mode of ending their pain.

Kate, We have a walk in Chicago that I have brought up here when Diane was on site more, (DIANE WHERE ARE YOU?) Maybe it is nation or world wide, but it is called OUT OF THE DARK, and it is a fund raising and awareness raising walk for family and friends whose loved one commit suicide. Folks walk through the night into the sunrise and the money raised funds programs that work with those who are struggling. If you don't have this in your area, maybe you can start one to assist those in need.

Betsy, so sad about your Sister, what a shame that she could not feel comfy being herself. Sad.

I am so happy to read of your fun with Sarah.

Susannah, thanks for your compliment on the photos.

[Jeff's Mom]

Susan..I definitely agree with Dee on this. His mood swings are very inappropriate. As far as name calling. That is abusive and undermines a persons self-esteem. Not acceptable.

Dee. the idea of walking through the night is a great one. We do not have that here. I really like the idea of making people more aware of the realities of depression and helping to lift the stigma.

Susannah...you are so kind in offering your support. Thank you so much! I am sorry about your nephew. Jeff was not gay, but he did suffer from depression badly. Regardless they were good and decent people that unfortunately lost their way and walked into a fog of pain and hurt. I'm not kidding how upset I was at the response of that guy on the death of a particular musician that had killed himself. What kind of response is that? "I have no respect for him." Well, let's hope he does not walk the walk some time himself. Easy to make a blanket statement when you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Christmas ornament on the tree in memory of a loved one is a beautiful and lovely idea. I am going to do the same thing myself. I may have to add one for my husband as I found out this morming that he ate ALL of the shortbread I made with TLC not long ago. Maybe I'll give him the recipe and he can do it this time. Hmm?

[shorty16]

Just want to say Hello to my friends.

I read often, just not much to say.

Thinking of you and our angels.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Susie_q512]

Susan, I can't claim to know why this man is doing this, but NO, it is not normal. I would say that his anger at her and you is coming out this way. Is he her biological dad? He certainly is acting as such, not that it would be permissible for a step-dad to speak in this way of a Child either. It is simply not acceptable for him to speak of SHannon this way and how is Raegan supposed to believe in her Dad's devotion to his children with this? My goodness, hasn't her heart taken enough? Is he mad because his bubble has been broken, he was the one that received so much attention for his illness and now what? He needs help, and if possible, you should both go to therapy to see if what has been said can be figured out and if your marriage can be put on better footing, but I think that I would let him know that his expression of anger is not to be tolerated and that he may have to move out if he intends to continue to slam your Girl. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this now.

As far as mental illness and suicide...there is not one family in the world that has not been touched by one's mental illness and if folks want to bury their heads in the sand and say, " NOT IN MY FAMILY, " they are just hiding from the truth. THe sooner folks admit there is a problem or issue, the sooner they can get some help, some relief, some assistance to living a full life. It should no longer be something we cannot bring out into the light of day to examine and discuss and learn from for goodness sakes.

Suicide can happen as a result of illness or simply someone reaching the end of their emotional rope at that particular time and not seeing a way to a different outcome. It is individual just like the people who ultimately decided on that mode of ending their pain.

Kate, We have a walk in Chicago that I have brought up here when Diane was on site more, (DIANE WHERE ARE YOU?) Maybe it is nation or world wide, but it is called OUT OF THE DARK, and it is a fund raising and awareness raising walk for family and friends whose loved one commit suicide. Folks walk through the night into the sunrise and the money raised funds programs that work with those who are struggling. If you don't have this in your area, maybe you can start one to assist those in need.

Betsy, so sad about your Sister, what a shame that she could not feel comfy being herself. Sad.

I am so happy to read of your fun with Sarah.

Susannah, thanks for your compliment on the photos.

He is her biological father, but has always been abusive and abrasive in nature....it's his character. It just shocked me (I guess) that he said something like that about her after her death. She's not here to defend herself. The dead can no longer speak for themselves in defense, so anger has really settled deeply within my heart towards him. I have been angry at him and others for years over the attacks on my child at such a young age. Many are now struggling with guilt since her passing. He has even admitted that guilt is a part of his grief, so it seems it would cause him to guard his tongue. Shannon's only blame is that of being a teenager. She didn't drink, smoke or use drugs. She busted her butt in school, but typically failed math. Never any praise for the A's and B's she held in the other classes; always tearing her to pieces for the F she had in math. She had a baby sitting job. She paid for most of the things she wanted or needed herself. She had a boyfriend.....that was the problem. From there she was labeled rebellious because he and his family didn't agree. I was a terrible mother for allowing her to have a boyfriend the last year of her life. She also had found her voice, and was standing up to her father and his abusive behavior. THAT"S a big "no-no" in his family. His family is in denial about his character.....it's always someone else's fault, never his own doing. When he was diagnosed with cancer, his mom moved in with us without anyone ever speaking to me about it. That's when the real problems with Shannon and her dad's relationship began. He and his mom let everyone know how horrible me and my girls were. I took Shannon to visit him in the hospital once, and he immediately began attacking her. I told him to stop, but he continued. So I took my daughter and walked out (after telling him and his family what I thought about it.) I remember them all being in an uproar because we were not going to stay the night with him after his assault. We left, and from there the attacks from his family began. All she ever wanted was the love and approval of her dad, and he failed her miserably. I am so mad that she didn't live to grow into the beautiful and talented woman I knew she would become. I wanted them to be proven wrong about her. I wanted the day to come for her when she could walk away from those that were so harsh with her.....we dreamed of that day in our future.....and she lost it. Her last years were filled with crap from him and his family. They have no idea the pain they caused her nor the tears she cried. I remember the many times she cried and said, "Mom, I'm not a bad person; I'm not being bad. Why do they say and think such horrible things about me? Why do they hate me so much? Why don't they understand that HE'S the problem." Ragan was attacked too, but she is pretty tough and dealt with them herself. Shannon was much more sensitive and took everything to heart. She tried to love and please everyone.....a tall order when dealing with folks who are not easy to please.....who always find the area of failure or not good enough and attack like wild animals going in for the kill of the injured and defenseless animal. I am trying to move past this, to rise above it, but his comment lays heavy on me at this moment. He's sick today, and I don't care....let him call his mom to take care of him....or better yet, he could try taking care of himself. Forgive me; I'm in a bad place

[ericasmom]

Susan, you needn't ask for forgiveness from us, hell I am ready to drive to Georgia and settle this with the man right now. HOW DARE HE...and yet, if you two make up, please forgive my anger at him, but I grew up with an abusive man, my dad, and hell if that doesn't piss me off to think that he dissed his own Girl. He did not stand up for her but joined the clan and ridiculed her? UGLY. No, you never need ask for forgiveness from us on this topic.

[517958]

Hello all. We just got back from Port Washington, WI for Thanksgiving with my in-laws. It was the first time we were back there since and of course there were a lot of memories of Charlotte there. I had a good cry on Thanksgiving night, but managed to hold it together the rest of the trip (pretty much). Now my attention turns to the dreaded Christmas. This is the first one in my life that I’m not looking forward to. I can’t figure out how a day that has always been so wonderful for me now fills me with dread. I’ve decided to put up a tree and try to have Christmas for my 3.5 year old daughter because she deserves some fun after such a horrible year.

I’m wondering from you guys who are a little further out in this grief journey if you’re okay to share - What do you do during the holidays to remember your angels? I know I want to do something special to remember my Char but my brain is barely working still so I need some ideas to get me going. The one I heard from somewhere was with hanging the stocking and having people write messages to her and put them in there. I thought that sounded nice.

[Jeff's Mom]

Angela, I know some others have posted that they bought a special ornament to hang on the tree in memory of their child. I personally think this is a terrific idea as it is something that the entire family can do on a yearly basis. Particularly your little daughter will remember hanging the ornament as tribute to her sister.

We buy a Christmas tree that we donate to our local country hospital. It is a small hospital that is quite new. There is an outside garden that is in the center of the building. It is called a healing garden and is really lovely. Surrounded by glass windows on all sides. When we stop by and see the lights we think of our son. But also it is enjoyed by patients and staff.

I'm sure there are others that will share what they do in memory. This Christmas day as we will be alone we are going to help serve a meal at a mission for the homeless. It beats sitting at home feeling sorry for ourselves. Another lady on the site is quite active in doing charitable work as well. Keeping busy and occupied really does help. Good for you following through with your plans for your little girl.

[mikesmomrs]

Want to reply, before I forget, to Char's mom regarding her question about what do we do for Christmas. I was the one who wrote about writing the messages for the stocking. I had stockings knit for each of the kids when they were 2, 10 and 13, with their names knitted into them. so, we had a pretty long tradition of hanging these three stockings up, even after they had left home. There was always something in them from Santa when they came to visit on Christmas day. So, not taking Mike's stocking out was just something we could not do...it had to be there. Cathi and Kim also wanted this. So we did. It was tough, no, it was like a hot dagger in my hand when I took it out of the box, but I kept seeing the Christmas's past, and Mike's face when he told me I couldn't die because he did. And knowing Mike as I did, to him there would be no excuse for not taking it out, certainly not an excuse like his death! For him, that would have been all the more reason to have it out there. So, out it came, and everyone who was told about it was very thankful for it. I know your little one is young to understand, but others in your family will understand, and she will grow up with that tradition and remember her brother through it. The next year, we put up a small (2 feet) tree for him, and everyone wrote notes and put them on the tree, then they went into the stocking on Christmas eve. We each put something under the tree that we connected with Mike and our relationship with him. Davis, his nephew, put a cd they liked, I can't recall what Cathi put. His boys put some of the Star Wars guys they shared, and so on. It might be good for your little one to put something under your tree that she remembers and connects with her brother.

The next year, I collected Christmas picture frames, (very small ones) and put a picture of each of us, and his kids and his friends, in their own little frames and hung them on a different little tree. Everyone LOVED that tree, also. We have also tried to donate to a gift donation program in his name. Each of us, as a bereaved parent, must find what feels comfortable for us, and if our suggestions can help one another, then that is a good thing.

Kate: Thank you for sharing yoru story of your precious son, Jeff. I know sometimes it can be difficult to talk about, and yet we do have that need to talk about it, and I am so glad that you found BI and can feel some comfort in knowing that you can discuss whatever you need to and we will be here for you, to listen, to offer comfort. Holding you close to my heart.

Susannah: I SO LOVE your writing. You bring so much wisdom, comfort and understanding to this site, and we love you for it and we thank you for it. I know that sometimes it is a result of your heart being ripped in two and you just have to put things in words, but those words always come out in a good way, as they seem to help you find direction, even if not right away, and they help light the way for us as we walk down this road together.

Colleen: Thinking of you, too, my friend.

Trudi: Always in my heart, I thank you also, for your words of comfort, support and wisdom. I am hoping that Mal's hearing does come back, and soon.

Susan: I am so very sorry for what is going on in your life with your husband. I do agree that this is just not right, and no it doesn't seem to me like it would normal for him to be name-calling on his own daughter. However, as Dee said, I am angry with him also, and please forgive my anger towards him. I hold you close in my heart, and send prayers to you for strength. I am so very sorry that your beautiful daughter had to suffer such abuse.

Dee: The pics of the wedding...you all look so beautiful and so very, very happy. Jon seems to have the same glimmer in his eyes as his beautiful mom. He is blessed. I know that he's had his problems with depression, but that smile on this day is happiness, full on. Your prayers are being heard, my friend.

Leah: What you are going through with your daughter is just so heartbreaking. I do hope that she can see something clearly enough to realize what she is doing to her child and her mom. I am so sorry. If you don't mind, I would like to take part of your post and keep it for my own use. "I told them if they don't want to make the effort to make changes.. then don't keep bringing the same things to me." It is something that applies so very much to our Davis, something that I really need to say to him, and sometimes when we can't find the words we need, we are gifted with someone who can provide them for us, and that is what you have done for me.

Betsy: I am so sorry that your sister had to go through all of that, and lose her own self in the process. As others have said, mental illness is a difficult illness and mostly because of the stigma attached to it. It is so sad that her husband and inlaws didn't recognize the beauty in your sister's personality and encourage it rather than stifle it. While she may have needed some medications, (and who were they to say she did?) but it sounds as if they made sure she knew that, and didn't sway from it for any reason, in any way. Our Cathi was diagnosed as Bipolar when she was 20, and while on meds was just not herself. She is a very creative person, artistic, a musician who loves to write songs and to sing them. Her BD medicine quashed all of those instincts, so of course she did not take them. We were very fortunate, though, in that she realized she did have responsibilities and needed to find a way to balance those things she needed to do (work, take care of her son, etc.), with those she wanted to do. (Of course, this didn't happen overnight, and didn't come without some pain and heartache.) When she was pregnant with Jamie, her second child, she could not take the meds, and worked very hard to find that balance in the hopes that she could continue with that after her pregnancy. With her doctor, she worked out a plan to take only anti-depressants and to keep in very close touch with her doctor at all times. If she felt any mania, she would call the doctor and they would work on it. I don't remember now if she went back on the meds briefly or not back then, but I do know that now she only takes the Wellbutrin. Could her life be better? Depends on who you ask. She is somewhat of a bohemian natured person, and this lifestyle seems to afford her that balance that she needs to be able to provide the means to meet her needs (job, etc.), and her children's needs, and she has found the balance at the other end of the spectrum to, while having had to cut down on some of it, still be creative in her own ways. She still writes and she creates. She moved some of her creative quests to her garden, which she never had any interest in before, and now it is a part of her as much as her skin. She has been fortunate, blessed. She has never married, by choice, and I think for the reason that she didn't want to be bound to someone else's ideas of how she should live, and felt it would be too difficult to be in a relationship and still maintain that balance she has created for herself. I realize that this does not and cannot work for everyone facing a mental illness diagnosis. I am just so grateful that this has worked for Cathi--and of course, all of this realizing and learning to balance and being able to balance didn't come about overnight. It took her almost ten years to work out the puzzle and put it together so that she saw the picture she needed to see in order to function...ten years that involved a lot of pain, loss and yes, even anger.

Wow, I've rambled. But, the stigma that is attached to mental health is like a button for me, a hot button, and having worked in the field for almost 15 years, I saw a lot of what could have been done differently, except that the "standards" had to be followed and sometimes it was the "standards" that made it worse. I saw a lot of help being given, and received, but I also saw many, many slip through the cracks in the name of expedience.

Lorri: Love the "Kourtney's Dinner" idea. So does Kourt, I'm sure. Thank you for sharing the pics of you all at Kourtney's memorial with the Wear Grey in May shirts. I haven't ordered mine yet...is there a cut off date for the ordering?

Got to go. Ralph needs to eat 5-6 times a day, and it is so difficult (because of the kidney restrictions) to try to find things that will keep him from losing more weight, and to get him to eat enough of it, as his appetite is almost non-existent. He has lost anothe 4 lbs since seeing the doctors last week. The hospital has called and scheduled him for the PET scan and the laparoscopic procedure on this Friday. I guess they are going to do them on the same day, after all. We continue to pray, to hope, to believe, and to see hearts and yellow punchbuggies. Yesterday, we had to go to Cathi's as her truck wouldn't start, and we went an odd way so as to go by the store for some oil, and on that road he saw TWO yellow ones, side by side. A first.

[lolynbo]

NO DEADLINE ON THE WEAR GREY IN MAY TS FOR MY BI FRIENDS...JUST WHEN U CAN MY FRIEND...

[tammill]

I've posted about my daughter Jorden in a seperate thread to tell her story and I have finally decided to join in here. I can't believe its already been just over 7 weeks since she's been gone. It doesn't get any easier--once the shock wore off, the pain that followed was unbearable. We've been trying to do a few firsts to just get thru them----its not easy. Going shopping was the worst, especially going into Hollister where she loved to shop--we used to have so much fun shopping together. I bawled the entire time I was in the store with my other children. I miss her so very much, my life seems so incomplete without her but I know I have to carry on for my other 3 children and my husband. Jorden added so much life to our home---her beautiful smile lit up the room. I am dreading Christmas though. I don't want to even think about it.

I’m wondering from you guys who are a little further out in this grief journey if you’re okay to share - What do you do during the holidays to remember your angels? I know I want to do something special to remember my Char but my brain is barely working still so I need some ideas to get me going. The one I heard from somewhere was with hanging the stocking and having people write messages to her and put them in there. I thought that sounded nice.

I saw this post and thought I would share what I am doing for immediate family and siblings. I ordered this star ornament for my tree. I asked them to put Jorden's name in the center like it is in the the picture, and then I asked them to put the year she was born(1997) in one corner of the star point and the year she died(2011) in the other point. I think it will make a lovely keepsake for all of us to treasure. I ordered it from here:

http://www.thevintagepearl.com/products/VintageStarOrnament_p307

Tammy

[Guest msnher]

Tammy, I am so sorry for the loss of your 14yr old daughter, Jorden! I'm glad you decided to join us us on this thread. It's just a much more active thread. I don't sign on to the main forum. I have this particular thread set up in my favorites so it comes right here. If you don't mind repeating your story, I would love to read it...or tell me what to look for on the main page and I'll try to find it. You are still so early on this new journey none of us would have ever wanted to join. Be gentle with yourself.

Carol, thank you...I feel the same way about you.

Susan, Your husband is on my sh** list. Where the hell is their Christianity? I'm saying "their" because I'm referring to the whole famn damily. Next time tell him to go pray for you because you sure as hell are praying for him. Lord knows I'm praying for him! I won't say what I'm praying for... How does Ragen handle his cruelty?

Leah, I am so glad when I see you posting. "If you keep doing what you've done, you'll keep getting what you've gotten." Time for someone to make a change. Difficult. It's like learning to speak a new language.

Diane - I second Dee's question...Where are you?

Karen? Rhonda? Crystal? so many parents..... Always in my heart!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[daveydow1]

Hello, Indigos.........I'm behind, but am trying to catch up.......here goes...

Tammy-----I am sorry for your loss of your dear daughter, just 7 wks. ago. This is

a good site, and everyone on here knows the pain you feel, and understands. Please

come back and read/post when you can. Peace to you.

Carol----Yes,....I agree that it is so difficult to go to a funeral, only to have to face up to

the unthinkable tragedy of your own child's funeral later on. Looking back, one wonders

if it was some sort of a prophesy or an omen, doesn't it ? Glad that you had some good

time with the grandies and Cathi. This type of good family time does help the soul.

Susannah----Thanks for your kind words. I, too, believe that we will be reunited with our

kids, and all the dear pets. Sorry to hear of the suicide of your dear nephew. So sad.

Kate-----I got choked up when I read your post about your dear son's death, and the traumatic

circumstances surrounding it. So very sorry. Your dream was a lovely visit from your son

to reassure you that he is o.k. and relaxed, and looking refreshed. Whenever I have had dreams

of my son, Dave, they have also been like your dream, where he looks good and is ok.

Kathy-----I ,so, understand your day where you are sad, angry, want to cry...etc. . Hoping that

you feel a bit better, friend.

Susan---- So very sorry that your husband made the very hurtful remark about sweet Shannon......calling

her a spoiled brat. It is outrageous, I think, and I don't blame you for being angry. Negative remarks

about the child that died is especially damaging. I hope that he finds it in his conscience to apologize

for the hurt that he has caused you. I'm sorry that remark ever came from him, and he should say he's sorry.

Lorrie--- Thanks for the pic of your family in the 'wear gray in may' t-shirts. Your family sure is a

good-look'in group !!

Dee-----Thanks for the great pics of Jon & Shannon's wedding.......lovely couple. Also,....I love your dress, too.

Very nice pictures......beautiful church. You mentioned that ERi loved Christmas shopping/buying gifts/and

getting gifts. Dave was the same........he was always the first one done with his Christmas shopping....way

ahead of the rest of us. He also loved buying gifts for people for Christmas and birthdays and other occaisions.

For what he could afford,.....he put a lot of thought into what he bought. I have so many things he gave me for

different occaisions, and they are such treasures to me...

Betsy-----So sorry to learn of your sister's death, my friend.

Angela----As far as what to do about Christmas, it think that it is a very individual thing. I've been on this

rough road quite awhile, and I remember keeping the holidays very low-key. I had not put up a Christmas

tree, or done any celebrating at all,....in those first couple of years. But, as I said......it really should be

up to you,.....and do just what you feel up to. Don't let others try to push you into any festivities that you

just don't feel like doing. I know how hard the holidays are, and am sending thoughts & prayers for you, friend.

Colleen------Good to see Brian's nice smile. I do know how you feel about not having much to say.

We all get that way now & then,.....Peace & comfort to you.

Leah----So nice that you put up the tree with your son and granddaughter. Telling them that JaBoa was

always with everyone was a good thing. Sorry that your daughter has not found her way yet. Thoughts

and prayers for your family, and also for your mom, that she feels better.

PEACE TO ALL INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[lolynbo]

TAMMY SORRY YOUR ON HERE WITH US....TELL US ABOUT YOUR GIRL.....ITS STILL HARD TO SHOP WITH OUT MY KOURTNEY...THOUGH SHE HATED TO SHOP SHE WOULD SAY "MOM IF U LIKE IT I LIKE IT, IF U PICK IT OUT I WILL WEAR IT"......OPPOSITE THEN KIMBERLY....KIMMY WLD SPEND HER GIFT CERT AND ASK FOR MORE.....

BUT I SO NO THE FEELING TAMMY OF GOING TO PLACES THEY LOVED TO GO, AND THEY ARE NOT WITH US WITH US.....LONG JOURNEY FOR YOU AND YOURS....BUT YOU WILL MAKE IT SOMEHOW ...IDK HOW BUT IM ON MY 3YRS 5 MONTHS AND FEW DAYS...BUT REALLY IM ON MY 5TH CHRISTMAS ANDD THANKSGIVING WITH OUT MY GIRL KOURTNEY....HER TUMOR BURST 11 DAYS AFTER FINDING IT, AND 7 MONTHS AND 2 DAYS LATER AFTER MANY SURGERIES AND NEVER SPEAKING AGAIN AFTER IT BURST NOV 15 2007, SHE DIED PEACEFULLY LIKE THE ANGEL SHE IS....JUNE 17, 2008.......

I SOMETIMES WONDER DID I DREAM HER UP....WAS SHE EVER REALLY HERE...IT SEEMS SO LONG AGO.....IT HURTS SO BAD SOMETIMES I JUST HAVE TO SCREAM.....

[Guest msnher]

Thank you, Sherry, James V. Gardner took his own on life on October 1, 1991. He was 18.

[summergirl]

Tammy - Welcome to this most wonderful site but I am so very sorry you are here as that means another child gone too soon. We lost our daughter Jessica suddenly from a heart attack at age 26 almost 6 years ago so I am one of those here who has been on this journey for what seems like a very long time and yet like yesterday. Please tell us about your sweet daughter when you can. You will find many friends here and much needed hugs, wisdom and sharing as we all walk the same path.

I have had a most horrible day......Someone got into my car last night and stole my money out of my wallet !! First of all I NEVER leave my wallet in the car and I always lock the doors but I guess I was busy with Tavian when we got back from fishing and did not notice as we were busy talking.....anyway, when I went to the store today ALL my money was gone and the worst part is that I had just gotten my Longevity check from work so I had almost 1600 dollars. I am broken hearted as that was my Christmas money for Tavian. I have cried so much today but I also know there is nothing I can do about it, I cannot get it back....The police said I could file a report but since it was cash there is really nothing they can do as I have no proof of how much was there or that I actually even had any...... I kept wondering how much more I can handle and I know the answer is "whatever I have too"........We will work it out and find a way just as we have always done but it does not make it any less painful.....I just hope that whoever did it is enjoying Tavian's Christmas money

I love you all and wish I were up to posting more but just need to get some rest if I can. Love, strength and peace to all, Kathy

[Guest msnher]

Kathy - I'm so sorry your wallet was stolen!

Time for me to call it a night. Amanda called and said she is scheduled to have an MRI at 7am Thursday before they put in the pacemaker because they won't be able to do one afterwards. I feel peace about it all, now.

Prayers for Ralph!! Prayers for all of us!

[ericasmom]

Tammy, so so sad that you find yourself here but this is a place that can help hold you up when you need it and listen to you when you want to talk and cry when you cry...we are a strong group, larger than anyone would ever want but nevertheless. Your Jordan was so young when she died, my heart aches for you. Erica was 19when she was killed at a broken crossing as an Amtrak barreled through hitting her car. She lived for 6 days allowing for us all to be with her as she lived her last days, and though never awake again, being near her offered so much to her many many friends and all of us in her family. I do believe that her spirit was so surrounded by love by the time she let go that she fairly bounced to heaven. This happened 8 years ago. Tell us what you can when you can and don't give any mind to knowing which parent goes with which Child, we all understand that it is hard to sort out at first. Give it a month or two and you will start putting names and faces together.

Kathy, it made me cry to read that your money was taken, I am so sorry. I hate when folks lives are violated like that.

Goodnight All, sleep very deeply

and dream per chance

[ericasmom]

Morning Everyone,

the wind is howling here and I am going into a day of meetings, last minute call for a potentially all day meeting with my boss and a few others that sit on the School Improvement Team. I don't sit still real well, so hopefully we can revise and get back to our classes. We shall see.

On this cold november morning, I am thinking of you all, remember that even if it is 2 steps forward adn 3 back, you are still moving forward, we have all moved backwards on this road, but we all have moved forward despite the the slide. Peace with you.

[rlolheiser]

Tammy, I am glad you found this site, it is such a place of strength for me. I am sorry for the loss of your beautiful angel, definitely gone to soon, but Jordan will always be in your heart and soul. I am not the parent of an angel, but a grandma.. I helped in raising my JaBoa who was taken at age 10, 5 years ago. It's a tough journey for all the parents here, but everybody here is willing to give you a hand when you feel like you can't go on. I wish for you strength to go on this journey and hope you share your angel with us when you are ready.

Kathy, I am so sorry that somebody has taken from you. How terrible, when you are one that gives, I know you will handle things that come to you, but your right, it doesn't make it any easier, you are a strong woman, who will come through this with Jessica by your side.

Lorri, hugs my friend.. I sometimes wonder too if I dreamt up all the wonderful things about my angel.. but no.. Kourtney and JaBoa are real.. they are loved.. you could never love a dream that much.. they touched out lives forever.. they touched many lives that we probably aren't even aware of.

Sherry, what a lovely memory of Davey.. I imagine his shopping sprees with a smile in my heart and think how sweet, glad that you have his little treasures. Thank you for always wishing my mom good health, we have been so lucky. As for JaBoa's mom, I still worry.. when a vacation with some guy is more important than getting life together .. there is just something so wrong.. I keep up my prayers and thankful for all yours.

Susannah, I think that I speak a totally different language than my daughter.. I try to understand hers.. but it isn't coming real easy. So much to comprehend in her life, and yet to stay a tough parent.

Carol, I am glad something I said can be of any help to you. God knows you have gotten me through a lot of tough times. It is hard with these young people, and as I was saying being a tough love parent is not my style, but it has to be if I am going to see her able to live. I am always thinking of you and Ralph and hope that everything goes alright for you. You

are such good people.

I was going to write some more, but times up.. mom wants breakfast and time to get ready for the kids.. Wishing you all a wonderful day!

[shorty16]

Tammy,

This will be our 4th Christmas since Brian's death. The first Christmas we left our beautiful state of Wisconsin and spent Christmas in Miami Beach, Florida. It was so different than anything we had ever done and it was a welcome diversion. There were many tears, but also many activities to keep our mind moving. We also put some of Brian's ashes in the Atlantic.

The second Christmas we also left, but went to California and put some of Brian's ashes in the Pacific Ocean along with my Mother's ashes and those of a very good friend.

The 3rd and 4th Christmas we spent (are spending) at home. It will be forever hard celebrating Christmas without our boy, but we have two other children (21 & 18). The Christmas's do get a tiny bit easier, but it takes a long time.

Hang in there my friend. This is what worked for us. Getting away might not work for you.

Colleen