Loss of an Adult Child

[mamabets]

For Mazey2- And yes, great cuddle time with my beautiful quilt!! My doggies love it too- All 4 of them, totalling a mere 50 lbs. combined, were in one pile last night, underneath it, like a mound of newborn puppies... SNORING!!! This breed that we have here, daschunds, burrow by nature, but how they just couldn't get closer than they did to both each other and me last night, made me really feel as if they knew Danny was right there with them!! It was a sight to behold,and a new memory with this labor of love... And, they are there again tonight!!!xoxomamabets

[ashleysmom]

Mamabets,

What a wonderful gift to treasure. One of my daughter's friends offered to make me one shortly after Ashley died but I was unable to part with her clothes at the time. Someday I think I will take a quilting class. Someone did make me a quilt with Ashley's pictures on it that I do treasure. You are a dog lover?!! I am too. We have three dogs, combined weight of about 190lbs! Two boxers and a shih tsu. I don't know what I would have done without them during this past 17mos. Especially the boxers, they are so loving and sensitive.

I got an update on Crystal's baby (my first grandbaby) The ultrasound was yesterday, the baby is due on the fourth of July (two years to the day that Ashley died). I don't think that they could have been planned if they tried. This will be a very bittersweet time. Joy for a new baby, devastation over missing Ashley, wishing so much that Ashley were here to share with her sister, knowing Ashley is with her sister(just not in the flesh).

To all, I hope you can all find some peace and maybe a little joy in the memories of your precious children. I know how hard that is, but I have worked so hard on this. The cost can be high emotionally because for every joyful memory I have of Ashley comes the reality that I have to savour these memories because there will be no more here on earth. Dottie

[mamabets]

For Ashleysmom- Please don't try to fight any feelings that you may have- I know the torture, and I certainly feel the pain for you and your sweet Ashley- My niece is expecting a baby in March- A little girl named Sarah , and I have often said- "I can not wait for her arrival, because I believe that it will help me and my daughter Jackie- We then will have been able to witness the full circle of life". Plus, there is no doubt that Danny was extremely instrumental in Sarah's comming to be- That is another story!! My friends and my sister-in-law, brither too, are ALL boxer lovers- I have had manny boxers just climb into my lap and wrap their paws right around my neck- I kid you not!!! They are lovers, not fighters, that is for sure!! Do you have e-mail?? I would love to see some pictures!!! My e-mail is huntross4@aol.com. Try, if you can, to join me and we will forever embrace ALL that our angels ever were, and therefore now are. Our Ashley is so with us, just in another form, as I am told- I have to believe this, for my Danny shows me the way- My friend's daughter who is the boxer lover of all times?? Ashley!! xoxomamabets

[rmcaggiano]

Dear Nicksmom21

Hello, thank you for your post. Can I ask you a question..........How old is your Nicholas? What happened? What is his full name? I hope you don't mind me asking.

Rose

[tx2005]

I lost my 21 yr old son on 11/22/05. It has been almost a month and the pain is strong. I miss him so much. I feel that my life has no purpose or meaning anymore. He was the only family that I had. I raised him alone. What hurts the most is the fact that his death is still pending. There is no closure and I doubt if there ever will be. He would have been 22 on 12/13/05. It is a struggle to get up everyday. I feel like my life is over. I have lost interest in so many things. I can't sleep well. I have even lost weight. I have yet to return to work. I am trying to get counseling to get through this pain.

[rmcaggiano]

Dear Tx2005:

I too lost my 21yr. old son this year, May 8th 2005 (mother's day). The pain and loss aren't a bit easier. I am sorry for your loss, I too am waiting for some closure too, when I lost my Nicholas, he had been given a lethal dose of Methadone, and didn't wake-up. The guy that gave it too him is still being investigated, it has taken all of this time, I still haven't recieved is clothes that he had on nor some other things. The detective does stay in contact with me, but, still it's still pending also.

I don't know what to say to you, just that I know whatever it is you feel,(IT'S A COLOR THAT ONLY WE AS PARENTS WHO HAVE LOST A CHILD CAN SEE). The only hope that you and I along with everyone else have is that one day we will see them again. I KNOW THAT IS TRUE.Please know that when I pray for my Nicholas I will be praying for your son too.

Rose

[mattsdad]

Today after 4 1/2 months it finally hit me. Matthew is NOT coming back!

He will not be home for Christmas, or his birthday, or his sister's or brother's birthday. Not for his mom's birthday or mine either. He just plain is not coming back.

The reality has set in.

Maybe it is just the holidays because people seem so busy and care-free. Going to and planning parties.

Yesterday we had our Christmas luncheon at work. There were about 20 people talking and laughing and the usual carrying on that such an event would have.

You know, only 2 people asked how I was doing or my wife and kids.

My boss has never asked how things are. What I mean to understand about people not offering any concern is it that they don't care or just don't want to bother me and to drudge up sad feelings. Are they afraid it could have been

them and not me?

Matthew had bi-polar and anxiety attacks. This condition eventually led to his death by overdosing on muscle relaxants.

Had Matthew died of natural causes, an accident or any number of other ways would people act differently towards me, the parent of an OD'd kid? Do I have a scarlet letter around my neck that scares people away? Does it mean that our loss is not as meaningful or painful as the loss of any other parent? Matthew never meant or wanted to die. His loss is just as great as ANYONE else. Why

don't these people get it? It sucks for us just as much as it does for any other parent.

It changes the way I feel towards these people.

Before I time out---let me just say that I hope that none of these people ever have to go through what we all here are going through.

Jeff

[donosmom]

Mattsdad, I am so sorry you have to go through any of this. I don't think people aren't asking you about Matt because he OD'd, my Matthew died of a brain aneurysm and I get the same treatment. I think we frighten people. These things only happen to other people that they don't know, we are suppose to just read about them in the newspaper not actually know someone who has lost a child. We have fractured their imaginary umbrella of security that things only happen to someone else. My own sister called me about a year after Matthew died to apologize that she hadn't been there for me, but it was just to hard for her and she wanted her umbrella back. Don't we all!

I had someone come up to me last night and tell he how good it was to see me happy, HAPPY????? Just because I smiled at seeing them? Oh well they really don't care to know the truth. I have a new meaning for FINE, F--K up irrational, neurotic, and evasive, so now I can say "Oh we are doing fine" and to myself think of my definition of fine. They really aren't interested in the truth, this is HELL.

Like you I hope they don't ever have to experience this.

Matthews Mama Mary

11-3-79 7-13-03

[rhonda68]

Hi everyone I have set up a group at tearsofheavenmsn.com where we can post pictures have our thoughts and poems. If anyone is interested in joining!

Love,

Richardsmom

[runnersmom]

To Mattsdad:

Let me add my voice to those who feel you are definitely not being singled out for the manner of your son's death - it has been 8 months since my son died in a boating accident and I experience the same thing you do, people do not ask how we are doing or even bring up Steven's name.

I think perhaps that they are wrapped in a cocoon of security and do not want that to change - and many many people believe bringing up the child's name will "remind" us of our loss. Those of us who are here know there is no reminding because there is no forgetting, but others haven't learned that yet.

I am finding the holidays a lot more difficult than I thought they would be for me; I knew I would not feel joyous, but I was expecting the numbness to stay and instead I am overwhelmed with sadness.

I am grateful to everyone here for your help and insight, it is so hard to just get through the day sometimes.

[briansdad]

Mattsdad,

Brian died in an accident and people don't ask anything.Not even my best friend.So don't burden yourself with the guilt that your son ODed.People just don't want to talk about it because they know it could have just as easily been them.

Here is a poem I found on a site.Thought I might share.

"I'll lend you for a little time a child of mine," He said.

"For you to love the while he lives and mourn when he is dead,

"It may be six or seven years, or twenty-two or three,

"But will you, till I call him back, take care of him for me?

"He'll bring his charms to gladden you, but should his stay be brief,

"You'll have his lovely memories, as solace for your grief,

"I cannot promise he will stay, since all from earth return,

"But there are lessons taught down there I want this child to learn.

"I've looked the wide world over in my search for teachers true,

"And from the throngs that crowd life's lanes I have selected you.

"Now will you give him all your love, nor think the labor vain,

"Nor hate me when I come to call to take him back again?

I fancied that I heard them say: "Dear Lord, Thy will be done!

"For all the joy Thy child shall bring, the risk of grief we'll run.

We'll shelter him with tenderness; we'll love him while we may,

And for happiness we've known forever grateful stay.

"But should the angels call for him much sooner than we'd planned,

"We'll brave the bitter grief that comes and try to understand."

May God Bless Us All

[mattsdad]

To donosmom, runnersmom and briansdad...

I hope I didn't come across as being paranoid. Well, maybe just a little.

I just had that feeling of being the outsider in our small world of aquaintences.

But having read your responses I now know that it is our circumstances of being the parents of lost children. Not about how they died, but THAT they died. We are treated differently for many reasons. And tonight I just won't try to figure them out.

Like many of you, my wife included, we are all so tired, mentally and

physically. Just waiting for the holidays to be over and get on with the rest

of our lives.

Briansdad... Thanks for the poem. And I agree that people will not talk about death because, yes, they would never want to be in our shoes.

Jeff

[mattsdad]

These are some wonderful words that I had forgotten----

"I think one of the reasons so many of us find it difficult to be with people who have experienced some calamity is that their misfortune often threatens us by threatening our simplistic understanding of what is going on in the world."

John W. Caster

John happens to be the husband of julsmom(Lynda)....

Lynda..Thinking of you and John tonight.

Jeff

[mattsdad]

To runnersmom,

I did not mean to leave you out in your response that people just feel uncomfortable with our loss.

Jeff

[nicksmom21]

Rose, My Nick was 22 when he died. He was born on 6-21-81. He was speeding on his motorcycle and was being pursued by local police for speeding, he did not pull over. An off duty officer monitoring the chase on his radio had pulled out into his path as he was attempting to get back on the highway towards home. He struck Nick and he was ejected off his motorcyle and his helmet flew off. Oddly enough, no charges were founded by prosecutors office, they said it was a coincident that he pulled into my son...while he should have pulled over he did not deserve the death penalty for not doing so..It will be 2 yrs On Feb 13 that the accident occured, he died Feb. 18 2004..

[nicksmom21]

Rose, forgot to tell you his full name Nicholas Joseph

[mamabets]

For All- Let me say this... For all of us, that know all of you, because we know this life of yours, mine and ours... I am blessed to be in the company of people like all of us and I could never, ever do this without all of the love that I have found in all of you !! xoxo mamabets

[Artina]

Mamabets,

Ditto... I agree with you. Thank God for technology.

Peace to all, Tina

[mom2angels]

Christysmom}}} and {{{Tx2005}}} Although I wish that you didn’t need to be here, I’m glad that you found us. I’m so very sorry for the recent losses of your daughter and your son. Please know that we all understand what you are going through and will be here to help you along the way.

{{{Mamabets}}} What a lovely and thoughtful gift from Liana, a quilt of Danny’s clothes! A friend offered to do this for me a few months after Michael passed, and I declined, because I just couldn’t bear to walk into his closet. Michael was in his hospital bed at home for the last 3 1/2 years of his life, so he wore hospital gowns. His gowns and linens are still stacked exactly as they were when he left home on Mother’s Day 2003 via ambulance to our ER. On his angel date this year, I was finally able to touch his clothes, and I removed his tropical gown, which matched the one we put on him after he passed. I ironed it so carefully, as my tears just dropped onto the cloth. Then I placed it in a glass memory cabinet in Michael’s room. I don’t know when, if ever, I will be able to remove his gowns and linens. But if I could remove them from his closet, a quilt would be the ideal way to still hold onto them and him. May all of your warm and wonderful memories of Danny embrace you with comfort as you cuddle up inside this special quilt.

{{{Rhonda68}}} I wasn’t able to link to the tearsofheavenmsn.com website. I tried a couple of Google searches, but I didn’t come up with anything. Could you copy and paste the actual URL here? I hope you are feeling better today, Rhonda. I know you had a rough one the other day.

{{{Mattsdad}}} I’m so sorry that you were hit with these painful realities all at once. There’s the physical finality of death that just slams into your entire being, and then there’s other people getting on with their lives when your life is so drastically and permanently altered.

A friend of mine who lost two preteen daughters to a rare disease told me once that she felt like screaming when she was around any group of people, “What’s the matter with you? How can you be laughing, talking, acting like everything is fine! Don’t you know my daughters are gone?!” She felt like that at work, at the store, at her church, everywhere.

A very close friend of mine, who had helped take care of Jon when Michael was ill, was with us when he died, knows our family so well, said to me, 10 weeks after Michael passed, “So are you feeling better now?” I was stunned and replied, “no. My son died. I will never get over it, and it will be a long time before I will feel any better. I feel worse in fact. I’m grieving.” And she answered, “Still?” STILL? It had only been 10 weeks!!!!!

My sister in law basically vanished from our lives, and we had been close to her, though many miles apart. And so did a couple of our friends, or people we thought were our friends. They just abandoned us immediately when he died. That I do not get.

I think people hesitate to mention our loss, our child’s names, for fear of hurting us. People fear saying the wrong thing, so they say nothing, which is the wrong thing. I was once that way, before I experienced deep loss.

I also think that death itself is just a really difficult subject for people to discuss. Period. Even just as an esoteric discussion, death is not a topic with which most people are comfortable. When death occurs in our personal sphere of people, it’s too close. People would rather be in denial or avoid the tremendous pain you are in, because of their own fears of death.

Before my son died, I thought that I could imagine the pain of mothers who had lost their children. I was wrong. I couldn’t. So, the factor of being unable to relate to your pain comes into play as well.

What is interesting to me is how many of our friends and family have lost their pets, and have then turned to us to say that they understand now how we must feel. I just smile, and then they stumble all over themselves saying, “not that I’m comparing my dog (or cat) to Michael, of course.” I just smile and say, “of course.”

Well, of course they ARE comparing their pet to my son, or at least their grief to mine, because it is the closest proximation for them to relate to me and my grief. They all admit that it doesn’t compare, but that doesn’t stop them from going there in the first place.

I’ve found that it is most difficult for people who have never been a parent to relate to my grief. That is understandable. I don’t expect them to be able to relate.

And that is one of the lessons that I’ve learned on this journey—don’t expect anyone to really understand -- realize that people are going on with their lives, because they didn’t lose their son, don’t expect people to mention him or ask how I’m doing. If I need support, I go to them and tell them. Fortunately, most of our friends do remember Michael and are very supportive of us generally and on the special days.

And even though others may avoid mentioning his name (the elephant in the room story), I don’t. I mention Michael in my conversations all of the time. I open up the opportunities to speak about him and have others either listen and/or walk down memory lane with me.

I realized fairly soon after Michael received his wings that how I coped, how I managed all of the layers and complicated aspects of this grieving process, was basically up to me. I had to make a conscious choice not to let the little slights upset or hurt me. I had to recognize that Michael was powerful enough to separate the chaff from the wheat in my life, and I knew the ones remaining were the best of the crop. I had to learn to forgive. Still learning that every day.

And I had to learn that if I needed help, I had to ask for it, because it’s not too long before offers of help fade down to none. For others, once the initial crisis mode has calmed down a bit, it’s over. And you are left to get on with it, the best way you can.

The strength of every parent here is very evident to me as I read your posts. I think you all have found excellent ways of coping, especially by sharing your experiences with others here, who truly do understand, and aren’t afraid to say your child’s name. In fact, we cherish the names of each of our children.

My daily prayer for all of you is that God grant you peace and comfort~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[daveydow1]

Briansdad,

Thanks for the poem---very beautiful and inspirational.

Mattsdad,

I think we all have had this experience of people saying

insensitive things, or saying nothing at all, which is also

hurtful. I guess there's no way they can even remotely relate

to someone who is grieving the loss of a child unless they

have had the same loss. They are just not even in the same

stratosphere as we are. I also have had people (friends ??)

who just cut off all comunication. One person was just out

and out brusque and rude. Needless to say---I don't need

anyone like that in my life, and I now just have the mindset

that they never existed. It works better for me. My prayers

are for you and your wife, now, and may you find peace.

[kirksdad]

Roslyn, I am with you on being able to say our kid's name whenever we need to and to hell with what anyone thinks. I know at work I think I have said it enough that most of the people I talk with will even talk, every now and then, about how hard it must be for us. I have even been able to talk with others about losses they have had, especially sisters and brothers and I work with people who are young and their siblings were young when they died. It helps to be able to bring Kirk's name up in a conversation. I have a picture of him on my laptop at school and even kids ask me about him. Of course with them I don't go into details, but it is nice to tell them he is my son. Cultures throughout the world talk about thier loved ones and honor them every day. We can surely do the same. I have always thought our culture strange when we can honor Elvis and Marilyn, but have to hide the fact we might have a child that is dead.

[mamabets]

For All- All I konw, is that I for one, am honored to be in the company, once again, with all of you who so freely talk about your angels. Every detail of their lives and therefore death, will be embeded in my heart forever, because I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that they are watching out for my Danny ,as they too watch out for us. These kids of ours are all together, and I invision this in my mind and heart ALWAYS- I see them side by side, playing among the stars, and I know that they are the link to the love that we have for each other here- I have no doubt, that if life could arrange for this, we could all be in a room together and know each other instantly. So, for the people that have left the ship in my life?? Oh well, their loss, by far.... xoxomamabets

[heartbrokendad]

Dear Mattsdad,

As a parent who lost two kids to drugs, I must agree, there ia a stigma and we have to try and do away with it, otherwise people wont ever try na dget tretment for drug abuse. There is a site you should look at, called learn2cope, yake a look, join, its all about parents of drug addicted children.

peace to you..

Stu

Carrie and Matthews dad

[mattsdad]

To Stu,

Thanks for your perspective on this subject. I can only imagine how horrible it could be losing two kids to drugs (or anything else).

To all,

Thanks for your input about dealing with people who won't deal with us.

Without them, life is simpler.

Jeff

[rhonda68]

TearsOfheaven@groups.msn.com This is a site I have created if anyone is interested you can put your photos and poems ect. on this site.

Richards Mom

[rhonda68]

A Bereaved Parents Holiday Wish List

1. I wish my child hadn't died. I wish I had him back.

2. I wish you wouldn't be afraid to speak my child's name. My child lived and was very important to me. I need to hear that he was important to you also.

3. If I cry and get emotional when you talk about my child I wish you knew that it isn't because you have hurt me. My child's death is the cause of my tears. You have talked about my child, and you have allowed me to share my grief. I thank you for both.

4. I wish you wouldn't "kill" my child again by removing his pictures, artwork, or other remembrances from your home.

5. Being a bereaved parent is not contagious, so I wish you wouldn't shy away from me. I need you now more than ever.

6. I need diversions, so I do want to hear about you; but, I also want you to hear about me. I might be sad and I might cry, but I wish you would let me talk about my child, my favorite topic of the day.

7. I know that you think of and pray for me often. I also know that my child's death pains you, too. I wish you would let me know those things through a phone call, a card or note, or a real big hug.

8. I wish you wouldn't expect my grief to be over in six months. These first months are traumatic for me, but I wish you could understand that my grief will never be over. I will suffer the death of my child until the day I die.

9. I am working very hard in my recovery, but I wish you could understand that I will never fully recover. I will always miss my child, and I will always grieve that he is dead.

10. I wish you wouldn't expect me "not to think about it" or to "be happy." Neither will happen for a very long time, so don't frustrate yourself.

11. I don't want to have a "pity party," but I do wish you would let me grieve. I must hurt before I can heal.

12. I wish you understood how my life has shattered. I know it is miserable for you to be around me when I'm feeling miserable. Please be as patient with me as I am with you.

13. When I say "I'm doing okay," I wish you could understand that I don't "feel" okay and that I struggle daily.

14. I wish you knew that all of the grief reactions I'm having are very normal. Depression, anger, hopelessness and overwhelming sadness are all to be expected. So please excuse me when I'm quiet and withdrawn or irritable and cranky.

15. Your advice to "take one day at a time" is excellent advice. However, a day is too much and too fast for me right now. I wish you could understand that I'm doing good to handle an hour at a time.

16. Please excuse me if I seem rude, certainly not my intent. Sometimes the world around me goes too fast and I need to get off. When I walk away, I wish you would let me find a quiet place to spend time alone.

17. I wish you understood that grief changes people. When my child died, a big part of me died with him. I am not the same person I was before my child died, and I will never be that person again.

18. I wish very much that you could understand; understand my loss and my grief, my silence and my tears, my void and my pain. BUT I pray daily that you will never understand.

Love to all!

[runnersmom]

Roslyn,

How very well-spoken you are, thank you for putting words to what for me are a jumble of emotions.

I too feel I have learned not to expect understanding from those who have not been down this road (I didn't understand before, I knew people who lost children, I knew it was a hard thing, but I didn't understand). When someone starts a conversation obviously feeling embarrassed with "I meant to call," or "I didn't know what to say," I absolutely let them know I understand THAT because that is how I reacted BEFORE.

I try to keep a journal of what I am learning, it helps somewhat.

Last night I was reading over the posts here and looking for the tearsofheaven group mentioned, when the phone rang next to my desk. I picked it up and a young man said "Mom?" - I knew my younger son was back in his room, and it was on the tip of my tongue to answer "Steven?" I mean, I know in my head that he is dead (with just the teeniest sliver of knowledge that his body was not recovered from the accident 8 months ago - my heart wanted it to be him). When I hesitated, the young man asked "is this xxx-xxxx?" and it was one number off - he apologized for the mistake and I told him it was alright, and it really was, because for just that split second, it was Steven on the phone to me, and after breaking down for a while, I was OK with that.

Certainly one of the things I have learned is that there is a lot we don't know and there are infinite possibilities for everything.

One day, one hour, one breath at a time.

Thank you all for your strength and comfort.

"Steven's Mom"

[mamabets]

For Runnersmom- I would positively take that phone call as a sign from Steven- Remember, their spirits act and behave differentlt now, their presentation of themselves is different, but it has been told that they will come to you through telephones, smells, lights, coins {as in pennies}- Just to name a few- Please read Hello From Heaven and you will see that you are without question, closer that you think to our angel Steven... When you "feel" as if it is a message from him, it is. I hope that these words have encouraged you to believe, my friend... You too are a blessed part of this family and we are here for you always!! Thanks for sharing! xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Rhonda68- How perfectly PERFECT!!! You get an A plus, plus for this one- I will keep it forever, copy it and paste it on my refrigerator, front and center!!!!! Thank you for this piece of hard work, however we will all get tremendous strength from it, I have no doubt!!! I can't get on to Tears of Heaven!!! xoxomamabets

[rhonda68]

Hello I am sorry you cant get on to the site I will try and figure this out. Anyways just wanted you to know I am not the one that deserves the A plus for this i am not sure who wrote it just found it on the internet as i was searching the web. But its exactly what I would like to say to people so I copied it. I would love to be able to put my feelings inside out like this.

Love,

Richardsmom

[rhonda68]

http://groups.msn.com/TearsOfheaven okay try this SORRY!

[rhonda68]

Stevens mom,

Okay I am a little excited now about that phone call as your trying to get on that site I wonder if its a connection that our sons are together because I have been desperately searching for signs and also ever since I heard the poem about the pennies I find them all over and they make my day!

Love,

Richards mom

[mamabets]

For Rhonda68- Our kids are DEFINATELY together-!! Too many thigs have happened to me, personally, to be able to prove it first hand... The pennies?? My goodness, pick them up, put them together in a beautiful little dish of some kind, something that has sentimental meaning, and keep them close to your bed, maybe right on your night stand. That is where I have mine- You will be amazed at all that can happen spiritually, once you are opened to the possibility that they ARE still with us. Someone said the other night on Barbara Walters during her interview with different people talking about Heaven- "There is nothing in life that is better than being dead"- This came from a gal who had had a near death experience after being electrecuted- For us, it is lonely- For them, where they all are now??? It is AWESOME!!! xoxomamabets

[maskott]

I was just reading a post on Coping with Loss. A womans van ran over her best friends only son, a nine year old. She is devastated, to say the least. Right now, I am not the best at giving advice, but I know she needs a reply, so if anyone is out there...please go to this sight and see if you can help her out.

Thanks.

BettyAnn

[julsmom]

There have been so many postings!! We are having trouble with the electricity in our house and I have not been able to use the computer much. Also, we are trying to get ready for Christmas as best we can.

Tx2005 – I am so sorry for your recent loss. This is a safe place to express your feelings.

Kirksdad – your words are always right on. We can glamorize/immortalize celebrities but cannot talk about our loved ones who are gone.

Mattsdad – thank you for quoting John here. You and BettyAnn continue to be in our prayers.

To All - people just say and do the stupidest things. I don’t know why. We decided to go to a restaurant for dinner this Christmas. Lots of reasons, but it is what we have decided will be best for us. It is something I never thought we would do. A co-worker pressed the issue. I did “tap dance” around it, when I really wanted to say – “look, it is just 3 of us when there should be 4 and I just don’t have the energy this year to ask anyone else to join us.” Some folks just don’t have a clue.

May we all find peace and comfort this holiday season.

Peace, Lynda

[mamabets]

For Rhonda68- I am on tearsheaven at msn.com, but can't find your site- Is there a name?? E-mail me at huntross4@aol.com with a page of it, maybe!! xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Julsmom- Three cheers for you- From now on, when possible, do what you want, because very often you will find that it will be all that your weary body and mind can do. It becomes impossible to stress out over things that used to seem so important, like where you are going to have dinner!!! You know?? Tell the co-worker, thanks but no thanks for the advice... We have all we can do to get hungry!!! I am proud of you for taking a stand and deciding to bolt!! I am doing the same- My hub may not be to thrilled about it, but my best friends are right in Charlotte- Dying to have us with all of their trees, decorations, another new baby on the way and food galore- I am going to stay home and cook??? I think not!! I love you and enjoy whatever it is that you can- You will be amazed at how easy some things become- They have to- We need all the strength we can get!!!xoxomamabets

[robertsmom]

To all of you here at Beyond Indigo

My prayers are with all of you as we try to make it through these holidays. This is my third Christmas without Robert, and I can't say it's any easier. Infact the reality has sort of set in. I'm going to take a little Christmas tree to the cemetary for Robert in the next few days. He's only a few minutes away but it is so hard to go up there. This will be the first year that two of my remaining children will be out of state for the holidays. It will be myself and my second son (now he's the older brother, which he has said he didn't ever want to be the oldest. I'm making him enchilada's for Christmas Eve than taking him to a casino for Christmas Day. For some reason with Thankgiving being so hard and knowing it was just the two of us I made reservations right after Thanksgiving. I don't know if it's the right thing to do but that's what we'll do. I am so releaved to have the whole work situation behind me - just being around all the Christmas spirt is so difficult. Thank goodness no one played Christmas songs all week like they did last year or I'd have lost it. I will be thinking of all of you here.

Robertsmom

[mamabets]

For Robertsmom- Enchiladas??!! Can I come??? I am so pleased to see that we are all doing whatever works for us this year- We will get through this holiday, after all. My son Danny was a HUGE Tampa Bay Bucaneers fan... We just found out today, that Tony Dungee's 18 year old son committed suicide... Tony Dungee was once the coach, not sure if he still is, but how ironic that this week I recieved my quilt from Liana with ALL of Danny's Tampa Bay Bucs clothing on it... I will wrap myself in the arms of this angel too... xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Kathy714- I am thinking about you!!! Are you there??? I love you- xoxomamabets

[rhonda68]

Hard hard day! I always bought boxers for the boys stockings so I was in the store today looking for some for my youngest son, and the first thing I saw was a pair of the same boxers we buried Richard in. I am so angry,frustrated,confused,hopeless,helpless I wish I could just be with all of you for christmas and hold your hands.

Thinking of all,

Richards Mom

[julsmom]

Robertsmom - sounds like a plan to go to the casinos. If we could get away we would too.

Mamabets - Tony Dungee now coaches the Colts (who have only lost one game). It goes to show that DEATH does not descrimate, it comes to the rich and famous and to the not so rich and famous. The Dungee family grief echos all of our grief and may their family find some peace this season meant to convey peace.

Rhonda68 - Christmas shopping is so hard. Our Julie had all the "neat" ideas, you know the toys, the unpractical gifts for everyone. My husband has the hardest time shopping for me because no matter where she lived, Julie would come home to go with him.

Lynda

[mamabets]

For Julsmom-Bless this Dungee family- Apparently there is some speculation that this poor family had tried to Baker act this young man last month- The oldest child of 4 kids, am I correct?? My Danny thought that Tony Dungee was such a "cool" guy- He followed his carreer as best he could... My heart goes out to his family.I have thought of them all day... You feel as if you know people when something like this is brought to your attention, like all of us here. This time of the year will soon be behind us, and we will once again, somehow , pick up some sort of the pieces that are left, so we can carry on. While there may not be peace, there is hope, I hope, and that brings me peace from time to time. xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Rhonda68- Maybe seeing those boxers was a sign that Richard was near , to help you buy boxers again... I used to buy underwear for my kids too... Every year... Peace, how ever we can get it, through each and every day...xoxomamabets

[daveydow1]

Mamabets:

When my son, Davey, was killed 6/14/2003, of course our

whole family was in shock. My daughter, Becky, said she

was in her bathroom saying a prayer for her older brother,

when she said she heard his "voice" say as clear as a bell--

"all I know is I was sitting in traffic one minute, and the

next minute I was in heaven." She has many times questioned

herself as to whether this was real, or part of her terrible

grief playing tricks on her. She said this happened soon after

the truck crash where the driver fell asleep and ran over our

son's car. We believed her, and reassured her that we thought

it was a communication from Dave. She is not a dramatic-type

person, and is well centered. Could you give me your thoughts

on this? Also, anyone else who would care to share their

thoughts. Thanks, Peace be with you all.

[mamabets]

For Daveydow1- I can, and have no problem guranteeing you thi much, simply because of all that has happened to me in this arena... Whe you "feel" as if our loved ones are near, or you "know " that you have heard them, it is with all that I have to assure you that it is to be. When you "feel" something, close your eyes, be still, open your eyes, confident in knowing that you will find the sign. Also, signs will find you too, such as our pennies... You don't always have to feel the feeling yourself. Back last year, shortly after Danny passed, I was signing a card to his girlfriend, and I signed all of our names, plus "a little touch of Heaven"- I then heard Danny say "Oh, Mom... That is so awesome"- My stories could write the book, my heartache still unbearable at times. But, in the book Hello From Heaven, there is a section that will tell you exactly how to connect to Davey- Promise- To answer your question... There is no doubt that Davey spoke to her- Absolutely none... xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Daveydow1- If you want, send me your e-mail and I will send you some of my most cherished of miracle photos- The Beyond Indigo logo is here twice- Once in my driveway, once on the sidewalk- During torrential rainstorms, they never move-They never get wet- I don't have them on my computer, but would be more than happy to send you one!! xoxomamabets

[runnersmom]

Richards Mom

I'm sorry I did not get back to you sooner; I, too, think the phone call I received could indicate that our boys are together. Steven was always "taking care" of younger kids, he was the one they followed around the neighborhood and later he helped motivate younger runners. For some reason I thought your son might be a bit younger (Steven was 27)

Anyway, he was the most strong-willed person I ever met and I am confident if there is a way to "break through" or leave "signs" for us, he will be able to do it. A close relative felt that Steven had been trying to communicate with him about an upcoming trip he was making - without knowing that, I asked him to take something of Steven's with him. When he told me he knew Steven wanted him to go on this trip, I told him about other "signs," like the pennies. He said there had been a penny on the walk leading to his apartment for 2 weeks (since the time he had felt he had heard from Steven) and no one had picked it up - needless to say, he went outside and picked it right up. It was meant for him, I am sure.

And all of this is just a rambling way of saying that I am learning more and more that all things are possible, and if our sons are together we will be hearing from them again.

I hope that helps you just a little,

and I hope you can find some comfort in this difficult time

- Steven's Mom

[kathy714]

Dear Daveydow,i do believe your daughter probally did have a visit from your son,just like i believe i have had many from my son Nate.One day i was sitting on the couch watching TV and i felt a hand on my should and heard someone say "Ma"just like Nate use to say all the time,and i know it was him.On day i asked my husband if he ever felt the feeling of someone putting their hand on his shoulder,because i do all the time,and he told he has,so i do believe we do get visits from our loved ones and we just need to be open to the signs....T/C Kathy,Nate's mom

[kathy714]

Dear Mamabets,thank you for asking about me,yes i hear you,i have been working ,i try every chance i can to jump on at work to read the post,but every time i start to reply i get call away,so tonight i am finally home and have time to reply.I went to cementery tonight and put a small tree with battery operated blinking lights at Nathan's site,it looked so neat lighting up the whole area ,i sat there looking at it,of course,crying,but at least i felt better that Nate had a tree.This time of year is so hard,i have been reading about how others here have been having a hard time with sighing cards etc.,i am having a hard time with that to so i sign mine and myy husbands name ,and Nate in spirit. Icouldn't get myself to send cards though,i just didn't feel up to it.Hope you are able to find some peace during these next couple of days,i know it well be tough,you will be in my prayers ..T/C Kathy,Nate's mom