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The private grief world


DWS

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I worked my tail off today, moving heavy pieces of metal from under the patio, cat scratchers from the patio, cots from the shop, a weight set from patio, ironing board, you name it, ready to toss in dumpster when it's delivered...and melted down, George, we were supposed to be doing this together, we were supposed to grow OLD together!!!

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JonathanFive
1 hour ago, Gail 8588 said:

I do love living in my little old quirky home.  It feels snug and safe.  Not sure what I'll  do if I can't  get insurance. Won't  be able to sell it for much if it is not insurable.

Well, hoping for the best on this inspection tomorrow. 

I think I've seen you mention that you're in Florida.  Have you tried citizens?  In the home too old for citizens?  I wouldn't know.   - we have citizens through Brightway Insurance Agency.   Florida home insurance is a mess right now.  

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I have a 46+ old mobile home w/o a foundation, if I sold the place they'd tear it down, not worth a thing except to me...just got my homeowner's bill, over $2,000.00!  Rose 40% last year, more this year.  When is this all going to end?  I have nine years left to pay and have to have homeowner's meanwhile...Only ones who will cover is Foremost.

Gail, I hope and pray with you!  🥺

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11 hours ago, Gail 8588 said:

I do love living in my little old quirky home.  It feels snug and safe.  Not sure what I'll  do if I can't  get insurance. Won't  be able to sell it for much if it is not insurable.

Gail:  I came across this website. Maybe they can help you:

https://www.harrylevineinsurance.com/home-insurance-for-older-homes/

 

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19 hours ago, Boggled said:

who am I now?   

For me, still cleaving to HIM.  BUT he died.   I gave my life to him, so WHO AM I NOW?

It's weird for me to get to this age and to never have heard the word "cleave" before until your references to it in the past few days. What a strange word...one that has two opposite meanings and known as a "contronym" which is another word I'd never heard of. Anyway, it can mean to adhere/cling and also divide/sever. Weird weird weird!!

But yes, I can see "cleaving" is a big part of this now. Cleaving and not leaving him in the past is the challenge going forward. Tom's photo sits on my desk right beside my computer that I work at daily. His photo is in my den where I eat dinner and watch tv. Another photo is on my bedside table with my cat Dolly's photo beside it....my little family that I lost within a three month timeframe.  I've not been putting any pressure on myself to remove them at some point. The question I suppose is this a part of "cleaving" that eventually needs to ease? Who am I now?! I'm one of the Cleavers!

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and very funny about the Cleavers, btw.   😄   and interesting about the word "cleave," never realized it was, or ever heard that word "contronym."   All we really have is our own mind, brain, emotions, experiences, and consequent beliefs, that I, at least, constantly "update."   this cleaving idea is an "update."  😄   Just pondering away ... 

Edited by Boggled
added word "experiences"
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merged interdependent identity, hunh.   Yep I THINK this is interesting:  (underlining added by me)

"According to the “self-expansion model” (Aron et al., 1992, 2004) individuals incorporate loved ones into their own sense of self to enhance self-efficacy and their achievement of goals. Such blending of identity in couples has positive consequences for relationship quality and constructive relationship maintenance (Walsh & Neff, 2018). In the context of bereavement, however, this blending of identity has negative consequences for coping. It has been argued that an important task of coping with grief is—to some extent – to exclude the ‘other-from-self’ (Boelen & van den Hout, 2010). This would involve gradually becoming less “merged” with the deceased, such that a bereaved individual needs to become less reliant on the deceased’s identity, resources and perspectives for their own self-identity. Our results support this hypothesis, since only post-bereavement “inclusion of other-in-self” scores predicted the maintenance of grief symptoms over and above initial grief reaction. This suggests that those who have been more successful in the task of building a more independent-self in relation to the deceased post-loss are better able to cope with bereavement and reduce their grief symptoms over time.

It’s not who you lose, it’s who you are: Identity and symptom trajectory in prolonged grief | Current Psychology (springer.com)

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if we have merged our individual identity with that of our lost loved one, I SUSPECT we don't WANT to become "successful in the task of building a more independent self."  

 

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1 hour ago, Boggled said:

if we have merged our individual identity with that of our lost loved one, I SUSPECT we don't WANT to become "successful in the task of building a more independent self."  

 

Absolutely.

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2 hours ago, Boggled said:

if we have merged our individual identity with that of our lost loved one, I SUSPECT we don't WANT to become "successful in the task of building a more independent self."  

 

No. The way I understand it, it feels too much like it's a requirement to put her in the forgotten past to be an independent me. I'd rather keep her close in my feelings than do that. Not that I think I could if I tried.

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Do we think it is actually a choice ? To cleave or not to cleave? 

It implies that I am choosing pain over something else in a wilful manner. That doesn't feel quite right. I don't think I had much choice but to fall in love with my Suzy and share our life as one and now with her gone I will miss her forever. I can choose to do other things; go to work while missing her, play with a baby while missing her , hold someone else's hand while missing her,but I think the missing her will never abate. I have more but I am crying to much thinking about the rest of my life without her

 

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8 hours ago, widower2 said:

So as hard as it is, I try to live life and appreciate the gift of life in general without her. It's hardly my first choice,

So true, and yet so hard to practice every day. 

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2 hours ago, shawnt said:

Do we think it is actually a choice ? To cleave or not to cleave? 

It implies that I am choosing pain over something else in a wilful manner. That doesn't feel quite right. I don't think I had much choice but to fall in love with my Suzy and share our life as one and now with her gone I will miss her forever. I can choose to do other things; go to work while missing her, play with a baby while missing her , hold someone else's hand while missing her,but I think the missing her will never abate. I have more but I am crying to much thinking about the rest of my life without her

 

That's how it is for me.  I try to focus on the here and now and look for and appreciate the good, holding hands and cuddling with him is long gone now, as I well know.  We never stop missing them...just so we don't let it deter us from living life to our fullest.  And I know that's hard.  Very hard to get used to.

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From the article quoted above, from:  It’s not who you lose, it’s who you are: Identity and symptom trajectory in prolonged grief | Current Psychology (springer.com)

"... only post-bereavement “inclusion of other-in-self” scores predicted the maintenance of grief symptoms over and above initial grief reaction. "

I for one do think that in our marriage, we both did the "inclusion of other-in-self" thing.   Thinking about it, what you said, widower2, 

9 hours ago, widower2 said:

Trying to continue our lives without our loved one in some meaningful way doesn't mean we miss them or revere them any less...what else are we supposed to do? Sit in a corner staring at a wall and mope?

well yeah.  what else ARE we supposed to do?   I think, although our loved ones became part of our identities, our "selves," at least in ME, he's still in me, in a LOT of ways, his ideas, our long history together, what he would say or how he would react about some experience, or event, or thing, ... lots of things FROM him, are still IN ME.   I don't want to lose that too!   (and like shawnt says,):

2 hours ago, shawnt said:

Do we think it is actually a choice ?

And the interconnectedness was/is so very strong, the intertwining of our selves was/is so intertwined, that the grief just hits again and again over and over;   maybe? it might be?  that I seek his corroboration of what I think would have been his reaction?  and then he's not right there as he always WAS?  is that what happens?  not entirely that but maybe part of the grief?  it's deep and inner.  and yeah, sort of like "having had half of your self ripped away."  Because "inclusion of other-in-self" ... it happened!  in my case, over 20 years!   And I don't want to lose him!  ever!   so there's the element of "don't want," but also the element of "what are we supposed to do?"  and gradually I think that's what I'm doing, at least becoming an "identity" (that includes him!) that is able to BE, even without his physical presence, and WITH the memories and the ongoing pain/hole.

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I'm recalling, and I posted about, my "pillow incident," that I posted on March 2, 2023;  that was 9 months "after," and after those 9 months, I finally had an "identity experience," as I realize it was, NOW, where I felt enough "identity" to have a FIRST moment of peace:

Looking at the world through different lens - Loss of a Partner - Grieving.com, Help for Coping with Loss Types: Child, Mother, Father, Wife, Husband, Mate, Pet, Friend, Sibling, Sister & Brother

and it had to do with BEING ... "BEING" as in "identity."

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On 5/1/2024 at 8:59 AM, DWS said:

But yes, I can see "cleaving" is a big part of this now. Cleaving and not leaving him in the past is the challenge going forward. Tom's photo sits on my desk right beside my computer that I work at daily. His photo is in my den where I eat dinner and watch tv. Another photo is on my bedside table with my cat Dolly's photo beside it....my little family that I lost within a three month timeframe.  I've not been putting any pressure on myself to remove them at some point. The question I suppose is this a part of "cleaving" that eventually needs to ease? Who am I now?! I'm one of the Cleavers!

I don't see why you would need to remove photos of your late husband and cat.  What's the harm?  Does seeing their photos make you sad?  

I'm still wearing my wedding ring, and have his on my bracelet.  Sometimes rubbing his ring makes me feel closer to him.  It's comforting to me while going through the grief, and that comfort gives me strength to move forward.   

5 hours ago, shawnt said:

To cleave or not to cleave? 

Which definition?  To adhere to or to sever? 😛

 

Cleave or not cleave and where to cleave and where to not cleave.  Whatever gives me strength to move forward and heal.  You have to voluntarily choose healing, when you're ready, and healing does not mean forgetting or leaving behind the one you love who has passed away.  It means adapting to life without them.  Sometimes that involves acknowledging the pain that you feel, and crying when you need to.  Other times that involves opening your heart and mind and learning to appreciate all the beauty that life still has to offer.  Most importantly, it means remembering to take good care of yourself.  You can do all that at the same time as continuing to carry the loved one in your heart.  Why does it have to be one or the other?     

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2 hours ago, HisMunchkin said:

I don't see why you would need to remove photos of your late husband and cat.  What's the harm?  Does seeing their photos make you sad?  

Speaking for me, I couldn't look at her photos for quite awhile.

 

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10 minutes ago, widower2 said:

Speaking for me, I couldn't look at her photos for quite awhile.

 

Actually, I couldn't either, but I had to look at many photos cause I wanted to put up an online memorial for him.  It was hard, but also nice to be reminded of our time together.  To each his/her own.  If someone in mourning finds it comforting, then I don't see what would be wrong with that.  If it find it hard to bear, then of course, don't do it.  I'm still avoiding watching shows that we used to watch together, or using the TV in the basement at all.  When I'm ready and feel like it, I will start watching those shows, maybe even on that TV someday.   Not watching doesn't do any harm to me so it's not really affecting my healing journey.  Oh the other hand, not sure if bombarding myself with those show will help with healing either, lol.

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WithoutHer
5 hours ago, HisMunchkin said:

Actually, I couldn't either, but I had to look at many photos cause I wanted to put up an online memorial for him.  It was hard, but also nice to be reminded of our time together.  To each his/her own.  If someone in mourning finds it comforting, then I don't see what would be wrong with that.  If it find it hard to bear, then of course, don't do it.  I'm still avoiding watching shows that we used to watch together, or using the TV in the basement at all.  When I'm ready and feel like it, I will start watching those shows, maybe even on that TV someday.   Not watching doesn't do any harm to me so it's not really affecting my healing journey.  Oh the other hand, not sure if bombarding myself with those show will help with healing either, lol.

I found myself scrambling to find pictures of her because I actually only had one hard print of her and I together created and given to me by her daughter. We didn't actually take very many pictures of each other either. But she had a camera loaded with photos of her and family and some of our trips together especially to Alabama for the holidays one year. So I pulled the card and loaded all of those photos onto the new computer I bought for her at Christmas just 2 months before she passed. There are over 500 photos of her and family and a couple including me. They scanned time not long before we met to approximately 8 years after. That night I sat and viewed all of them. But like I've said here before I do have a difficult time using that computer for obvious reasons.

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I spent days going through pictures and downloading them for his kids and making a collage for his funeral.  I have some pictures up on the wall.  But other than that I rarely go through pictures, just too painful.

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HisMunchkin
7 hours ago, KayC said:

But other than that I rarely go through pictures, just too painful.

Even now, or just early on? 

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