Loss of an Adult Child

[lolynbo]

HEY GUYS...IM HERE TRYING TO READ ALL.....BEEN SORTA SICK...AND ITS GLOOMY OUT TODAY AND HERE WE GO ONTHE 4TH WHEN WE FOUND THE TUMOR....GOD WHY CANT I JUST SKIPP NOVEMBER....IT STARTS WITH NO....SO LETS JUST SAY NO TO NOVEMBER...

SINCE IM SALLY DOWNDUMPS....I WILL JUST SAY HI...I LOVE ALL YAL...AND IM GLAD I HAVE AL OF YOU IN MY LIFE...HUGGS AND PRAYERS TO ALL...

[rlolheiser]

sure wish I knew why my computer crashes on this site lately. It goes for a page and then I have to bring it all up again. I guess it thinks I should be cleaning house instead, probably should be.

I haven't a lot to say today, I read you all with my heart, and try hard to say the angels names without looking.. it is just something that makes me feel good.. I forget about the things that bother me.

My daughter is still in jail, my oldest daughter is worried, cause she knows her sister is still talking to the people involved in drugs. I hear she is going up for another bond review tomorrow. Not sure what to hope for. It is terrible to be afraid to see your child. I don't know if it will be a good or bad reunion. I do know she is going to be in for a surprise because her children come first, and if she doesn't decide she wants motherhood, she wont be welcome here. She needs to give her all for me to give her my support.

Halloween was tiring, I took the 2 kids out myself, we put on some miles walking and talking, it was kind of nice without mom (my hubby took care of her) it was healing for us, we talked about JaBoa.. and her mom... and grandma.. and just plain goofed.. gotta have some goofy days..not enough of them.

Gotta run.. just know I am thinking of you all! and still send you thanks for your prayers and thoughts!

[dwsmithrn]

well, ain't it just a hoot...? and the saga continues....i said i would call my son today and clear the air....i have enough to think about without another family rif...so, i did....he answered and was just going to a doctor's appt and said he would call me back. he did, and i must say...it went very well. he apologized that he hurt my feelings and said he didn't mean to come off so gruff....he went on and said he knows i am grieving and will for a long time...said he recognizes that i am hurting, but is just so worried about me and doesn't want anything to happen to me...said he loves me very much and wants me to get better and realizes this takes time. he also said he doesn't want me to focus so much on nathan that i forget about the grandchildren....he wants me to have a close relationship with them and to remember them and the 3 living children because they all love me....i think it went well...we talked over an hour. i was ok with it. i felt better after talking to him.

however, my daughter's phone call was not as nice. i thought we were pretty close, but she pretty much put me in my place and made some accusations i did not like very much. i am not sure where i stand with her. she really hurt my feelings and then i found out that she went to the office and had an hour long talk with jim today, but he said it was all ok and he would tell me about it when he gets home tonight. i hope he teold her how this grief thing really works....because i think she is in the dark ages about it.

i think my life is in a tailspin and i can't get out of it. i have lost my son and now my family is disappearing one by one...these are all adults with children of their own...what in the hell do they expect of me? why can they not respect my grief? why can they not respect me? i can't be everything to everyone right now....and i don't know what to do.....i can't fix it....i couldn't fix nathan and i can't fix me....

i agree with everyone....nathan did have depresson and most likely BPD, not recognized until after the fact....but he, too, was "A MAN" and would never let anyone know he had such a thing....he hid it SO well...too well. i will never get over the fact that i should have noticed....WE should have noticed....i am a nurse, jim is a doctor...we should have noticed 'something' and we didn't...and now it's too late.

i see a counselor, i take an antidepressant, i see my md...all regularly....i don't know what else i can do.....when my counselor told us it would take a very long time, at least 2-3 years to at least 'feel better', she was right...and this angered my daughter...she thinks she gave us 'permission' to grieve this long....are you kidding me? she refuses to go she her and talk to her or at least see what she has to say. i ask her to go just one time...let her enlighten her and she says NO....she thinks we need another counselor and i say no we don't, we like her and she is a good counselor. she just wants me to be mom again, like yesterday, or more like months ago. she has no idea...period.

patrick talked to me like an adult, like his mother today.....lesley talked down to me, like a child...i did not appreciate that....she told me all types of reasons why my family is a failure and why her little family is going to be perfect....can you believe that? all i can say is good luck when she has a house full of teenagers....there is only so much you can do....some of the things she said about my siblings weren't even true...she had no idea what she was talking about....it really hurt, but i did not even argue....wasn't worth it. i just let her say what she felt like she needed to say....i just am overwhlemed today....

it seems like i never have anything good to say lately. i am so sorry i am unable to help anyone else right now....i want to, but i just can't find the words to encourage anyone today....

wishing you all peace and love from your angels today.....love, diane

[Jeff's Mom]

well, ain't it just a hoot...? and the saga continues....i said i would call my son today and clear the air....i have enough to think about without another family rif...so, i did....he answered and was just going to a doctor's appt and said he would call me back. he did, and i must say...it went very well. he apologized that he hurt my feelings and said he didn't mean to come off so gruff....he went on and said he knows i am grieving and will for a long time...said he recognizes that i am hurting, but is just so worried about me and doesn't want anything to happen to me...said he loves me very much and wants me to get better and realizes this takes time. he also said he doesn't want me to focus so much on nathan that i forget about the grandchildren....he wants me to have a close relationship with them and to remember them and the 3 living children because they all love me....i think it went well...we talked over an hour. i was ok with it. i felt better after talking to him.

however, my daughter's phone call was not as nice. i thought we were pretty close, but she pretty much put me in my place and made some accusations i did not like very much. i am not sure where i stand with her. she really hurt my feelings and then i found out that she went to the office and had an hour long talk with jim today, but he said it was all ok and he would tell me about it when he gets home tonight. i hope he teold her how this grief thing really works....because i think she is in the dark ages about it.

i think my life is in a tailspin and i can't get out of it. i have lost my son and now my family is disappearing one by one...these are all adults with children of their own...what in the hell do they expect of me? why can they not respect my grief? why can they not respect me? i can't be everything to everyone right now....and i don't know what to do.....i can't fix it....i couldn't fix nathan and i can't fix me....

i agree with everyone....nathan did have depresson and most likely BPD, not recognized until after the fact....but he, too, was "A MAN" and would never let anyone know he had such a thing....he hid it SO well...too well. i will never get over the fact that i should have noticed....WE should have noticed....i am a nurse, jim is a doctor...we should have noticed 'something' and we didn't...and now it's too late.

i see a counselor, i take an antidepressant, i see my md...all regularly....i don't know what else i can do.....when my counselor told us it would take a very long time, at least 2-3 years to at least 'feel better', she was right...and this angered my daughter...she thinks she gave us 'permission' to grieve this long....are you kidding me? she refuses to go she her and talk to her or at least see what she has to say. i ask her to go just one time...let her enlighten her and she says NO....she thinks we need another counselor and i say no we don't, we like her and she is a good counselor. she just wants me to be mom again, like yesterday, or more like months ago. she has no idea...period.

patrick talked to me like an adult, like his mother today.....lesley talked down to me, like a child...i did not appreciate that....she told me all types of reasons why my family is a failure and why her little family is going to be perfect....can you believe that? all i can say is good luck when she has a house full of teenagers....there is only so much you can do....some of the things she said about my siblings weren't even true...she had no idea what she was talking about....it really hurt, but i did not even argue....wasn't worth it. i just let her say what she felt like she needed to say....i just am overwhlemed today....

it seems like i never have anything good to say lately. i am so sorry i am unable to help anyone else right now....i want to, but i just can't find the words to encourage anyone today....

wishing you all peace and love from your angels today.....love, diane

Hi Diane, sorry you are feeling so down today. I see that you have not really been going through this for very long. It's hard, eh? I think your kids are in shock as well. After all it is only a matter of months. I think it was so nice of Patrick to call you and express his concern. He obviously does care and just is not sure how to deal with it. It is a new experience dealing with grief. There are no dress rehearsals. I'm sure Lesley is spinning with her emotions as well. But they are there for you And while they may not always say what you want to hear..well they are yours! And they are very much alive and need you. Surround yourself with those grandchildren and the wonderful opportunity you have to be an active participant in their lives.

It's OK to have bad days. My husband has a theory that when he is running really late...well he just accepts it and goes with the flow. Some days when you feel like crap...go with it. Be kind to yourself and accept that it is not your day. Make yourself a comforting cup of coffee or tea. Read a good book, go for a walk, watch something decent on Tv, whatever. Try not to focus on the pain. Take one day at a time. Hope tomorrow is a better day.

Kate

[Jeff's Mom]

Gosh, reading over these posts today we do seem like a gloomy bunch today. It's allowed! Has to be the thought of winter coming on that has a lot of us in the dumps. I mean who really likes winter? The older I get the less I can do with it. Can't imagine Christmas without snow however. It's a must for me.

Fill me in you guys on American Thanksgiving and your traditions. Is it actually the biggest holiday of the year? I hear the sales are amazing. Well anyway, hang in there everyone. We've always got each other.

[Guest msnher]

Gosh, reading over these posts today we do seem like a gloomy bunch today. It's allowed! Has to be the thought of winter coming on that has a lot of us in the dumps. I mean who really likes winter? The older I get the less I can do with it. Can't imagine Christmas without snow however. It's a must for me.

Fill me in you guys on American Thanksgiving and your traditions. Is it actually the biggest holiday of the year? I hear the sales are amazing. Well anyway, hang in there everyone. We've always got each other.

Hence the name, "Grieving.com".

[Guest msnher]

This IS the place to vent...to let it all out...to be as gloomy as your heart feels. No pretense. No masks. Not here. Not ever.

Diane, your life is in a tailspin. It takes time for it to stop spinning so fast. Hold on. As Ralph said, "we've got your back".

To Ralph...yahooooo!

Kate, you don't know about the American traditions concerning Thanksgiving?

The holidays can be a terrible time for many of us.

[Jeff's Mom]

Hence the name, "Grieving.com".

I'm trying to cheer people up! Trying to make conversation to help get their minds off of how badly they feel today. That's all. As far as American traditon. Yes, I know. I thought people may like to talk about their holidays. My kid died exactly 12 days before Christmas. It is hard as heck to face the holidays after watching him wheeled past me zipped up in a body bag after having dinner with him three hours before. I feel like crap today too! In fact it was hard to get out of bed. But I did!

[shorty16]

Kate

I realize that the biggest tradition of Thanksgiving is to spend time with our family and be thankful for what we have.

Thanksgiving has changed for me now. All I want to do is hide under my covers until mid-January. The empty chair is HUGE!! We used to go to my sister-in-laws, but she and her husband have become distant (we have not talked for this entire year). She cannot handle our pain. I know it bothers Scott, but he makes excuses for her like "She does not want to spoil her perfect life with our pain."

I sleep late and watch football. We eat - alot and probably play some games later in the day.

Thanks for asking Kate

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

Then tell us about that, Kate. Tell us how hard it is/was. Tell us what you did to make yourself feel better today. But, please don't tell someone else they are being gloomy...not here. It's allowed here. You are free to get mad as hell at me. Just be real about it. We get enough of people trying to talk about something else "out there". We get enough of people trying to cheer us up "out there" by talking about something that has little meaning to them. What we don't do here is tell others how to feel. All pretense goes out the door here. We get enough of people trying to change the subject "out there". We don't need that here. I promise you, we won't do that to you, either. You are safe here.

There are times people take a break from this site because the sadness is too much. But, we never tell someone else to quit being so sad. We don't tell them to quit being such a downer. Not here. Here we honor the journey. We experience it to its fullest. We hold each other up. Talking, or in this case writing, helps. In many cases it is the only outlet a person has. Many here have no support.

We rarely have shallow conversations on this forum. We will talk about gardens, recipe's, other kids, grandkids....but, we don't tell others what to talk about because everyone seems so gloomy.

Having said that, I would love to hear about your son.

[mikesmum]

Read the posts overnight and there were many.

This site came to me about 12 weeks after Mike died. I was looking for the answer to why after 'such a long time' I wasn't getting anywhere. The name back then was Beyond Indigo. Beyond the darkest of dark, that's where I was. It also had a thread for Loss of an Adult child. Back then there was this thinking that I didn't lose a child persae, I lost an adult. In fact I was 'lucky' by some accounts.

Apparently online people aren't the real deal in her book.

I tend to look at my life now as though I live in a parallel universe. A place where those I feel comfortable with those who are 'online'. I know they are real, I have actually met them. In fact I felt so strongly I travelled around the world just to do so. It was a an all too brief visit but it did so much. I belonged.

I know I don't 'socialise' as I once did. I no longer work at my job. My career once a focus is now the underpinning of my self doubts. The relationships I had altered forever by my experience.

I lost much energy back then in trying to plead my case, my grief was, is, always will be part of me. Many who moved on thought I should do the same.

If you read back over your first months, year of posting you will see a marked difference in your words, thoughts. Supporting one another in many ways allows us to open up, to free our minds and thoughts that are surpressed in that other world.

We not only share and support each other through the grief of losing our children, but through the life challenges that we face.

Knowing someone hears us, understands us and is here when we need, when we log on goes along way to giving us the strength to 'visit' back in that world in which we once lived albeit short.

For Carol & Kathy ~ You know my heart and prayers are with you as Davis and BJ battle their demons. I wish you strength of heart when needed.

Here its still wintery...no snow so I guess I should count my blessings.

[Jeff's Mom]

Then tell us about that, Kate. Tell us how hard it is/was. Tell us what you did to make yourself feel better today. But, please don't tell someone else they are being gloomy...not here. It's allowed here. You are free to get mad as hell at me. Just be real about it. We get enough of people trying to talk about something else "out there". We get enough of people trying to cheer us up "out there" by talking about something that has little meaning to them. What we don't do here is tell others how to feel. All pretense goes out the door here. We get enough of people trying to change the subject "out there". We don't need that here. I promise you, we won't do that to you, either. You are safe here.

There are times people take a break from this site because the sadness is too much. But, we never tell someone else to quit being so sad. We don't tell them to quit being such a downer. Not here. Here we honor the journey. We experience it to its fullest. We hold each other up. Talking, or in this case writing, helps. In many cases it is the only outlet a person has. Many here have no support.

We rarely have shallow conversations on this forum. We will talk about gardens, recipe's, other kids, grandkids....but, we don't tell others what to talk about because everyone seems so gloomy.

Having said that, I would love to hear about your son.

You are obviously looking for a fight. And you are mad as hell. Well, first of al I am not going to let you take what I said out of context. I said we are feeling gloomy. And what I did today to feel better? My friend at 51 died of melanoma on Monday and I baked for her funeral. Real world out there! And I tried to enter into conversation with others by offering support! What can be taken the wrong way in saying make a warm comforting cup of tea? Take a walk. Look after yourself. How can that translate into being negative. Vent all you want I will read and not post. You are not the only one hurting and you are not going to tell me how to grieve. I choose the positive route. As far as American traditions? I bet I know more about American history then you do Canada! Again, not all memories are bad ones. I remember fondly holidays spent with my dead son. I am pushing myself to keep going. Enough said.

[lolynbo]

GOT NEW FLOWERS FOR CEMETERY/ MY MEMORIAL FOR KOURTNEY...I HATE TO CALL IT GRAVE/GRAVYARD CANT SAY THE WORDS...

KODY RAN ERRANDS WITH ME, BOUGHT SOME GROCERIES FOR NEW FRIG..STILL LOOKS EMPTY...

I SO UNDERSTAND THE EMPTY CHAIR/ THE HOLIDAYS.....WE GOTTA GO THROUGH THEM, BUT SURE WISH WE CLD SLEEP TIL THEY ARE OVER...SO HARD THE EMPTY STOCKING GETS ME...

HOPE EVERYONE IS HANGING ON ITS GONNA BE A BUMPY MONTH OR SO...

XOXOXOXOXOOOX

[Guest msnher]

Perhaps you are right, Kate.

[Jeff's Mom]

Perhaps you are right, Kate.

I'm hurting too Susan. Let's call it a day,ok? This is not a private club. We come from all walks of life and backgrounds. I am only doing what I am able. Trying to help others the only way that I know. By trying to make them feel better.

Jeff. was my youngest son. He was the kidder of the family. Bright and talented. Played AAA Hockey as Goalie and called to go to Portland Summer Camp as a kid. He was also musically talented. Played the guitar and wrote songs, etc. His fave band was U2. He made every attempt to attend their concerts and went to Minneapolis regularily to see the Vikes play. His fave team. He worked for a small temporary placement employment company started by an ex cop friend of his. They saw a need for people on he streets to find work. He woeked for them finding jobs. It was hard and difficult work. He saw thereally bad side of life. He also suffered from depression. When he died...group of these people collected money and sent a card .Besideach of their names they wrote why they would miss him. He treated everybody with respect. And they respected him in turn. We had lost our busines due to recession. Pressures were mounting and so it became too much for him.

Two days after he died I put on rubber gloves and walked into his roomto clean the blood off of the wall and dresser. I packed up his things and gave to the homeless. I am determined to honour his memory by being honest and determined to prove that there is good out there after all. That is the real world to me.

I am so sorry about your daughter. I truly am. I know it is hard. And I do feel for you. I am sorry I was so angry back. Please know that.

Kate

[Guest msnher]

My name is Susannah.

If I have ever given anyone the impression that I don't view the people online as real people I sincerely apologize. This group saved my life and for that I will be forever grateful.

I do not need educating on the kinds of people that come here. I know.

I was not angry when I responded the first time. I'm angry now!

And, I'll damn well call it a night when I feel good and ready to.

[Guest msnher]

It is impossible for me to claim love is the most important thing while I am angry. And, yet, that is my truth.

A few of you know me...really know me. I hope we can keep those relationships alive and flourishing.

I have come to love each of you dearly and cherish the memories of your children and their lives.

Please know I am truly sorry if I ever made any of you feel like I treated you like you weren't real. If I ever disrespected your walk of life or lifestyle I also apologize for that.

I just assumed you all knew how dear to me you were........

I'm so sorry.

I'll be back, but I need to take some time now.

Much love,

Susannah (PS - I really do hate being called Sus) LOL

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi Everybody! I've been roaming and reading for a while but not posting. The number of newbies that have entered here since I took off on my much needed break from this overwhelming grief is astounding! There's no way I can keep up at this pace. So for now I won't even try. But know I think about you often, and I do plan to come back sometime...just can't wrap myself around it right now. Looks like I have pretty good timing for flashing a Joey Smile in the room, though. Hugs and much, much love to my Indigo Family! xoxoxo

~Claudia

4EverJoeysMom

[aim630]

I just wanted to say that although I rarely feel like I have the right words to encourage anyone else, I am grateful to all of you that do every day. I wish I could write the way some of you do, you always have the right words, and it means so much to me to be able to come here, every day, and know I am not alone. My husband doesn't understand that I don't want to leave my corner of the couch, and I prefer to lose myself reading or watching TV. I feel like the 8 plus hours I work every day takes every ounce of energy out of me. When I do force myself to go out and spend time with my step-kids and grandkids, I usually enjoy it, although I miss Ashley every minute.

These next few months are going to be rough for all of us. Ashley's anniversary of being hospitalized (Nov 14h), Thanksgiving, her birthday (Nov 26), Christmas, the her anglversary, Feb 9th. wish I could skip to March...I'm glad you'll all be there. I know you all are very "real".

I never felt my boss was all that comforting after Ashley died (it was God's plan, and I have to pray to God to accept it) Easy for her to say...Last week she got news that her 12 yr old dog might be terminally ill. She was on the floor sobbing...I love my 12 yr old golden retriever, and I will be sad when she dies. But I realize she is a 12 yr old dog, and that is their average lifespan. My kid died at 23...My boss said she didn't know how she would make it if her dog died...By the way, her dog is ok, and I'm glad, but I still couldn't be all that comforting when she was crying. I am a terrible person.

Love to all of you-thanks for being there.

Amy/Ashley's mom

[mysonrich]

Well Susannah, I never thought that you thought or treated anyone here as if they were not real. I called you Sus once or twice. I like Susannah and never cared for Sus. I thought maybe it was at your request. I also wanted to tell you that I “enjoyed” your garden writing. Enjoy not being the appropriate word but you know what I mean.right?

Kate, I am sorry Jeff died. I am sorry that you had to clean up his blood. I will make an effort to learn more of Canada; eg Gander ,History, 9/11 and Iran hhostage situation. I understand that you are walking forward after Jeff’s death in an attempt to honor his life and death in goodness towards others.

I know there is good out there after all, my son and daughter are out there. Two separate realities ,plains ,physical and spiritual forms. I understated encouragement. I also understand that sometimes we just want to be heard; the good, the bad and the ugly. many times its as if we are all schizoid. Terribly angry and hurt and wanting to stop breathing one moment and sharing a recipe the next.

I'm not sure what happened here ,but I hope you both remain.

[briansdad]

I'm just feelin this tonight

[dwsmithrn]

thanks for the song...seeing the mood we are all in, it was definitely appropriate...guess we are all just really missing our angels lately.....i know with the holidays coming and my kids attacking me, i am extremely labile...and sad and i have no idea what to do with me....so, thanks again....

[ericasmom]

I have not been online all day due to such a busy day with third graders and writing plans for three days of substitutes...i am rather surprised with where this conversation went today and would just like to say that somehow I do believe a nicety was misinterpreted. I think that Kate was saying we are a gloomy group today in hopes of acknowledging the mood of the room and in so doing, noted some things folks could do to try to put some little moment of good or sunlight or peace into the day...even if only for a moment. Asking us about Thanksgiving was a way to share how we have celebrated with our Kids, and since our Children have left. I at no time felt that Kate was trying to tell us that we should not be gloomy or that being gloomy was not right, or that she wanted to change the subject. I think that Kate was just saying that perhaps there are ways to feel a tiny bit lighter if you are interested. I do not feel that that was instruction to end feeling gloomy or to say we should not be gloomy. Susannah, I am sorry if you dislike being called Sus, I have been calling you Sus for a year or so now, I wish you would have let me/us know as I would have worked to use your given name. I shorten all names so I apologize.

I have to say though, that when Carol, Betty, Kathy, Trudi and Bonnie all first came, I made similar suggestions to Kate's in hopes to bring a bit of hope into the lives that were so struggling at that particular time. It was taken as that I think, not as a way to say one should not grieve in what ever way that they are. I really think Susannah, that you perhaps read Kate's message with inflection or some sort of displaced anger. Forgive me for saying what I feel, but I do feel it necessary to state what feels obvious to me.

Kate, I hope that you and Susannah will both be back , as you both feel like a piece of something important to my heart and to the hearts and minds of many I suspect.

Lorri, No to November and Gray in May, you are a wordsmith, a real way with words. I do know what you mean however, the months that take us and beat us up, leave us breathless and torn up. I know that Col, Amy, you all have said that you wish you could crawl under the covers for the next several months in order to get through the holidays. It is a hard time for most who have this kind of loss. At 8 years plus, I still struggle with what I will do for Christmas as far as tree or not, (have only done one since ERi died) but making some new traditions has helped me a great deal, but I stick with some of the old too, which is bittersweet but the sweet is too good to pass up.

[lolynbo]

IT FLOORS ME WHEN I THINK WE ARE COMING UP ON 5 YRS OF WHAT USE TO BE NORMAL HOLIDAYS...YES KOURTNEY "WAS HERE" BUT SHE NEVER SPOKE AFTER NOV 15 2007...SO I SAY ITS 5 YRS SINCE HAPPY MERRY CHRISTMAS'S

I PUT UP A TREE EVERY YEAR...MAINLY BECAUSE I WANT TO SHOW OFF THE ORNAMENTS KOURTNEY AND I BOUGHT JUST WEEKS BEFORE HER TUMOR BURST NOV 15TH.....I ADD A LIL MORE EACH YR...A LIL ANGEL OR CROSS..OR NEW BLING OR COLOR.....EVEN GOING TO BE HARD THIS YR CUZ BROOKE IS NO LONGER IN THE "FAMILY"....I NEED TO GET RID OF HER STOCKING BEFORE KODY FINDS IT....AS TO ME ITLL KNOCK THE AIR OUT OF HIM AND IF I CAN SAVE HIM FROM THAT I WILL..

WE HEAD TO DALLAS TOM, FOR NASCAR WE WILL BE IN THE PITS WITH THE LOCAL NASCAR CRAFTMAN TRUCK...SHLD BE LIL COLD...BUT THE BOYS ARE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT...PLUS THEY ARE GOING AGAIN AND I FRIDAY AND AGAIN SUNDAY (WITH OUT ME) FATHER AND SON TIME....FRONT STRETCH TICKETS...

YAL CAN CALL ME WHAT U WANT I ANSWER TO ANYTHING...JUST DONT CALL ME LATE FOR DINNER....

BLESS AND BE BLESSED XOXOXOXOXO

[Guest msnher]

Susannah. That's my name. I find shortening my name condescending.

I stand by my first impression of Kate's post. Trudi's post was my undoing. On the positive side, I was finally able to cry...it was needed.

I won't be back.

[Jeff's Mom]

Susannah, I am sorry that you feel this way. Please do not leave the forum due to what I said.I truly did not mean any harm in my remarks. Heck, I am thre least confrontational person alive. I know you are hurting. Let's start tomorrow with a fresh start,ok?

Dee is correct in that I was only honestly trying to be kind. I did not mean to be so upbeat. I'm sorry if you found it offensive. Perhaps I am further along then I had imagined. I don't know. I'm just trying to cope like everyone here. And your garden does sound lovely. Sorry...but it does.

Kate

[ericasmom]

Susannah, I do not get it, I just read over Trudi's post to see what you meant by that statement that Trudi's post was your undoing. What about Trudi's post was your undoing? The blue quote was from Betsy's earlier post about her friend who felt she should have other friends that she should be out doing more in the 'real' world.

I really don't get where this anger over your name comes from when you have never told me/us that you think shortening your name is condescending. Now I am worried as to what is provoking this feeling in you. If I ever shortened a name, it was never to do that, after all, my real name is Diane and I have always felt like a Dee. If I did not like the name used, I would tell folks right away so as to not let it get to be a habit. Anyhow, I am thinking of you and hoping that you are okay and wondering if there is something else that is hurting your heart right now outside of our group.

I am up if you want to go in the chat room...

[mikesmum]

Susannah - Have re read my post and am at loss. In what way was my post 'your undoing'?.

Yes the blue quote was from Betsy's earlier post. I just wrote what it was about finding a 'community' of people who got it, without question or explanation. Who didn't judge or meaure my grief. It was also an effort to expand on how these friendships have allowed me to speak freely of those other areas of my life where I might otherwise keep to myself.

As with Carol and Kathy and their comfort now to speak of BJ and Davis. Something they might not have been able to do comfortably outside this site.

It is sad to see someone leave this site for whatever reason. But understanding that that is what they need for now is also part of being an Indigo.

From the otherside of the world.....I hope we take away from this site what we need to continue with our one breath one step at a time.....

[Guest msnher]

There is egg on my face. Twice. Once for coming back when i said I wouldn't, but the urge to read if I would be missed was too great...and that in itself is deeply embarrassing. Second because of my misunderstanding of Trudi's post. I thought it was directed at me....because I'm SO important. I felt scolded but didn't understand what I could have done or said that gave the impression I didn't think each of you as real people. THAT'S where my mind went. Right or wrong it went there.

As for you, Kate...I am the MOST confrontational person I know. It's a bad habit. Had I not misinterpreted Trudi's words I would have just let this drop and realize we were both misunderstanding each other. I didn't think you were too happy....or upbeat. Where I was coming from was a place of listening to Diane's horrible story of how her children feel she should be at a different place than/then she is. (both then's seem appropriate). I didn't read your words as trying to make everyone feel better, I read them as another person telling not only us, but her, how to feel. Normally I would walk away - or in this case, ride it out. Since it was so soon in Diane's journey, I wanted to run to her aid immediately. Apparently, she didn't need rescued. My bad.

I really am a nice person. Just ask me. I'm also too outspoken, or in this case too outwritten.

You guys are my lifeline. I am wondering though if I don't need to get out among face to face people more...at all...again. It isn't appealing to me. You guys are the most real people I know. Reading those words...the words I thought were directed at me...jolted me into, into...something. Am I hiding here? Is it possible that I need to move on? Move on to what? Am I addicted to my laptop? I believe so. I haven't had a cigarette in 2 1/2 months. Can I stay away from my laptop for a full 24 hours? I think it would be much harder.

Also, Kate...I WAS looking for a fight tonight. I'm just not sure why. I thought it would break out on another forum...about spirituality. I told some a woman who rubs me the wrong way to put on her big girl panties and get over herself. The problem with being wrong is until one knows their wrong it feels a lot like being right.

Dee. I don't hate being called Sus. One of my best friend's calls me Sus. Sometimes she will put in all three syllables, with emphasis, just to harass me. My name. When all else fails I can fall back on making a big deal about my name. Several of my close friends will say SusannAH...because I correct people so often. However, my friend Cathy just laughs it off and still calls me Sus.

However, Susan or Susanne or Susie brings out the worst in me. Perhaps it's time to let that go, too. Not that I have anything against those names...only when they're used on me. My given name is Susannah. My family calls me Annie. I loved the name Annie. My second foster home didn't like the name Annie or Susannah and chose to call me Susanne (Suzanne). I became known as Suzanne until I was out of foster homes. I refused to answer to anything but Annie or Susannah. It's an identity thing. My mother name my sister, three years my senior, Susan and she named me Susannah. Hell...she gave my sister Christine the letter L for a middle name. Just L. It didn't stand for anything. It just sounded good with Christine. So...I come to BI and you begin calling me "Sus". At first I was like..."What the hell?" But were such a dear and I was so glad you were talking to me at all that I let it go. Pretty soon everyone was calling me Sus...even Carol and I KNOW she loves me. Well, I know Colleen, Karen and well, all of you - I hope - love me. Then Sus became a term of endearment. But, being called Susan while I was defensive was a bit more than I was comfortable with.

When I got here I looked for approval/acceptance from each of you. It was so important to me that I was normal given the circumstances. Here was the only place I could come and let it out. Not just about Stephanie's death but about her children...about the trial. I hung on to every word from everyone. I still do, only I can't remember who said what as readily anymore.

I do remember when someone is going through a particularly rough patch. I hold that person up in prayer and meditation without ceasing as I go through my day.

Kate, I can't imagine having to clean up your son's blood from his room. I'm not sure I would have. As it is, I've saved some of my daughter's blood in a christmas box. It's dried now and just looks like dirt....did you all know that....blood dries up and looks like dirt. I'm dried up, too. I'm a LOT better than I was, but I still have such a long way to go before I begin to resemble the old Susannah. Thank God my husband understands so well. Anyway, I'm sorry for my anger towards you. I'm sorry I misunderstood your intentions. I apologize for lashing out at you.

Isn't it odd that I can't cry over my daughter anymore. Or rather, I won't cry over her anymore. I couldn't listen to more than five words of the song Greg posted. I'm just not there, yet. "Hold it together, Susannah" That's what I always say to myself. But, the tears fell freely at the idea that Trudi might be offended by me. That's interesting, I think. I'm not a crier.

If you met anyone who knows me at all face to face they would tell you one of the things they like about me is what you see is what you get....that and my kick ars attitude. I grew up fighting...standing up to big men. That's not who I am anymore....but, she is alive and well...obviously. But, she doesn't cry. Not until Stephanie died did I let people see me cry. Then I about couldn't stop crying. But tonight I got a good cry in. I'm not thrilled with it. I don't see the point. I'm compassionate while others cry. I encourage it. But, for me....my tears dried up a long time ago.

Boy...if it can be said in ten words, I'm going to use a hundred. Ain't that the truth!? I apologize to each of you for my tantrum. I still have a long way to go.

Please.....call me Sus. Or not. Whatever. I'm not doing spell check.

[ericasmom]

Okay then,Susannah, I was right and LORD knows I do love it when I am...I was pretty sure that you felt that Trudi was directing at you, but knew that she was not having remembered an earlier post from Betsy, and well, knowing Trudi as I do. Well, good, I can go to bed now knowing that you are safe from the anger/hurt you were feeling.

Kate, I hold you close as you shared such a sad piece of what your reality was/is in your loss.

We are the snowflakes

no two alike

no two all that different either.

[Guest msnher]

The one thing I DIDN'T say, that I absolutely mean with all my heart is this...Kate, I am so sorry for the loss of your son! Until tomorrow, then. Hugs.

[Jeff's Mom]

Thank goodness...now I can finally get some sleep.

Dee...thinking of you tomorrow and the rehearsal party. Have an awesome time! And everybody else...I am just who I am...me. I would not harm a fly deliberately. I just care about every person that posts on this site. The woman in North Dakota who has a daughter going in front of the panel tomorrow is on my mind. Susan and her journey, Betsy, Diane, and everyone. Good and bad days. And I was kidding about American history. We were required to study American History for an entire year in grade ten. We learned a lot. Canadians focus a ton on history.

Kate

[Susie_q512]

Hi everyone. Just catching up on the post, and very glad that things were resolved. I was a little worried that his new family I have found was unraveling.

Susannah, I will call you whatever you like or want. After reading your post, I can understand the reason behind why it is so important to you. Like you, I can be feisty. Sometimes I'm in the right, others times I am not. It's just the way it is. Like you, you get what you see with me too....the good, the bad and the ugly. Although I consider myself to be a kind person, I am not always nice. My honesty can be brutal. I have also worn egg on my face many, many times. Anyway, I think you are a great person. Your posts are articulate, insightful, hopeful and encouraging. I would miss your posts if you chose not to continue posting. I would miss you. In your last post, I saw your character shine through brilliantly. We're just people full of many aspects of personality each with flaws and imperfections. These are the things that make us beautiful and unique individuals. We are complex in our backgrounds and histories. This new path we are on has connected us to each other. I believe that we are now connected for a reason and with a purpose. Nothing much happens in this life without there being a divine reason or purpose behind it. I am glad that I found this site and the people I have met and am getting to know here. I loved your post about gardening...so many truths within it. Your writing was eloquent and beautifully expressed. Really hoping you with stick around.

Susan - Shannon's Mom

[briansdad]

So.....Have we all kissed and made UP?????

Sorry, It's guy thing.

[ericasmom]

LOVE it Greg, and Love the Guy, you are a very good man, thanks for the music to soothe the soul.

[ericasmom]

Kate what woman going before a panel today? Thanks for the good wishes toward the rehearsal dinner, that is tomorrow but I took today off as well because we will distribute My Former Mom-in-law's ashes. Betty was a wonderful Grandmom to my kids, so today since all the cousins form Jon's Dad's side will be in for the wedding this weekend, we will go to the cemetery and put Betty's ashes with Max, her Husband and then we will walk to Eri's gravesite and pay a visit. Jon still has some of Mike's ashes, my kids Dad, who died 2.5 years ago. He may leave a bit of Mike with ERi and with Grandmom if he has it in him to do so.

It is a wildly windy gray morning, a turn from the very mild weather we have been having. Autumn takes hold but I still will hope for a dry day on Saturday so that the Beautiful Bride can not worry about gown, shoes, hair on so special a day.

[lolynbo]

I THINK SOMETIMES WE DO WANNA FIGHT CUZ WERE ANGRY....WE WANNA ANSWER WE WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE...I THINK IT SADLY IS ANOTHER ONE OF OUR STAGES...AND "LEARNING HOW TO GRIEVE"....

KODY HAS SORE THROAT AND DONT FEEL WELL AND WERE SUPPOSE TO BE OFF TO THE RACES IN FEW HOURS...I TOLD HIM TO TAKE SOME OF MY ANTIBIOTICS..HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS...

[ericasmom]

Lor, I think you are right, we do get agitated more easily with grief, sometimes unbenounced to ourselves.

STREP THROAT going around, so is a virus that involves a sore throat. I am not a doctor or a nurse, but he should maybe just suck on lozenges until he can see a doc so that he does not take something that might not be necessary.

[briansdad]

We have this in our front yard,

[Guest msnher]

Greg...

Dee, I think Kate is speaking of Leah's daughter and going to court.

Lorri...you're very wise.

[ericasmom]

AHHHH, thanks, I always picture Leah in a different state,,don't know why. Yes, prayers indeed for the right thing to occur in Leah's Daughter's case.

[ericasmom]

Greg, I have that in a card and I have a card hanging in my classroom that says, "We are made of stars"

[Jeff's Mom]

We have this in our front yard,

BD...that is such a lovely tribute. What does the etching on the stone read? Was it your idea?

Kate

[dwsmithrn]

susannah....please don't leave...i need you....i am not fine...i am in no means ready to leave this group...or this site...i am not ready to go it alone and we need you here, with us....i had a horrible day yesterday....my daughter is really surprising us with her anger...YES...she is finally going through the anger stage and things she says to me is really hurtful, but what can i do but let her get through it...she has no idea of how it hurts me with her lashing out and taking it out on me....she went to jim's office and kept him for 1 1/2 hours talking to him...she used 4-letter words and you have to know...my little 'christian' daughter does NOT cuss....you never hear her angry or cuss or lash out....so, i KNOW this is part of her grieving her brother. she is hurting and mad and angry and taking it out on me...she is just so mad at nathan for leaving us like he did...and i am the one she is taking out on. it is horrible and i don't know how to help her. she won't let me talk about nathan with her...she won't cry with me....she won't let me do anything with her unless i am dressed with make-up on and have a happy face on, even if it is a pretend face...she simply wants her mommy back...and i can't be what she wants right now and she cannot and will not understand that. i don't know how to help this child. i don't know what to do....i am at a total loss. i need help, yes i do...but what kind of help, i don't know....she is making it worse for me and i am making it worse for her. i am totally labile and more emotionally than ever right now....what do i do...? really, what do i do?????? H-E-L-P....me, please....i'm begging someone to help me....

by the way, my name is diane, but my family all call me di....so if you shorten my name for typings sake, it's ok....

[Guest msnher]

Gosh, everytime I read Susannah...spelled out...I cringe...I wish y'all would go back to calling me Sus. I'm SO embarrassed. I would like to claim menopause, but truthfully, I get my panties in a wad every so often over nothing. Poor Gary!

Diane - I'm not going anywhere, my friend. It was an immature threat..."No body likes me, everybody hates me...I'm gonna eat some worms." Do y'all know that song? LOL Diane, I think what you are doing is perfect for your family. Grief is so ugly, so intimate, so invasive. You can't fix this. I'm so sorry about that. As a recovering alcoholic I practice the 12 steps (some days better than others). When I speak about step one - powerlessness - I share about Stephanie's death. I found myself more powerless over that than anything in my life. No amount of praying, meditating, service...working the steps...would bring her back. And, it was unacceptable. I also found myself powerless over others grief. It goes against every maternal instinct we possess. Not only could we not save our child, we could not save our surviving children from their grief. At first I tried to hide my grief from Stephanie's children. Their counselor told me it was important for them to see me grieve...I was their example. While your children are looking at you, Diane, and wanting you to be the old you...what you are really doing is teaching them how to grieve. You are showing them how. I promise the day will come when you feel a little bit better...you've had those moments already...the moments will come in longer stretches. When your children see that, they will understand the process a bit better, too. You can't explain grief. You have to live it. What you have done is given your respect to grief...what your children are doing is fighting grief. It is my understanding that fighting it or denying it only prolongs it. We put up detours...not roadblocks.

One of my favorite scriptures is "Be still and know that I am God." This is a time when you do what you have to do for you and when you can you do what you can for your family....and, allow God to do the rest. He has no grandchildren.

Kuddos to your daughter for approaching her father in her grief. Grief is not pleasant. It is ugly. People want to turn their heads away from it. Listen to me...I still can't listen to songs that make me cry.

Anyway...word from me is you're doing just fine....as inadequate as you feel...as horrible as you feel...as lost as you feel...you moving mountains and you don't even know it.

Take a deep breath....take a soothing bath, if you are able....drink a cup of tea....and keep being the perfect example of grief for your children...just be yourself...as you are right now.

As for me? I still have this damn cold! I didn't get a lick of sleep last night and so I'm cuddled in my blankets with my laptop again. I may have to find a recovery group for my laptop. But, I rarely leave the house, so it will have to be an online group. I crack myself up! Oh....y'all and your big words. I had to look up labile.

[briansdad]

Kate, it says,

“Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.”

[rlolheiser]

My dearest Indigo family.. my grieving family.. I hug you all.

You are all the best, We are all here for the same reasons, and sometimes we feel so low and hurt it comes out in different forms. I guess I shouldn't say we.. but I know I do.. my posts follow my feelings, and this is the only place in the world I have to bring out those feelings. We are a family though.. we can disagree with each other and still love each other in the same post or the next. I can say what I want and you don't hold it against me

I want so much to say so much.. but never know where to start. My daughter had her bond reduced and may get out at any time. I still don't know what will happen when the trial comes. I guess I have to face it on that day... now... the biggy.. my grandaughter is in jail too.. I want so bad to call up and ask if they are sharing a cell. My 20 year old grandaughter was picked up for no licence.. insurance.. concealed weapon. and Marijuana.. and I didn't even cry.. I am just stepping back from it for now.. I feel sorry for my oldest daughter.. she now knows what I felt like..

Anyway.. I love you all.. hugs! thank you for being you!

[tanmanmymagicman]

Diane i just had to post as I have been going through the same mind, body and soul destruction that the heartless comments my 38 year old daughter has made to me recently have really set me back this enitre week to the point my head tingles with tension and the pit of my stomache churns with nausa.....and can barely eat............ I started here a few years ago....like everyone here...trying to find HELP WITH GRIEF, I did recieve alot and will Never forget the impact it has and continues to make on my so called"new life" after loss of a child.... my son was 16.....was in an auto accident.....

Now here come the holidays and his birthday........i'm like everyone here (short of what Michael Jackson did) it would be nice to check out for a few weeks ..........and really escape.......

My daughter is very headstrong, her and her husband popular and well like in this community...... but she is not nice???? i think she wants to be???? but i can t figure out why she is so mean and coldhearted.........this week she told me "YOU HAVE GOTTEN WORSE THIS PAST YEAR" that was just a few days ago........of course there is alot more sadly to this story but I just know that the loss of a family member can tear up a family.....(like WE HAVE not LOST ENOUGH)?????? my oldest son stays out of it all and worrys......my youngest daughter won t talked to my oldest daughter as she has witnessed first hand the disrect to me........... I ALSO think my daughter has alot of issues herself..... she seems to have the perfect life but I KNOW and worry she is under ALOT of pressure to be perfect? BUT i never treated my mother like she treats me.........I wonder sometime if her personality is hereitary as her dad s mom and sister (were not nice) they were selfish and i will leave it at that...................All i know is I have to keep myself from letting my daughters anger hurt me anymore......its hard as i do her a favor and pick up her kids my grandkids from school 3 days a week....its not easy as it 3 kids from 3 different schoolsat 3 different times. i have a mobile notary business so I have to juggled that when i pickup the kids......yesterday when i dropped them off she commented on the water bottle i brought for my grandaughter that"oh its dirty" well yeah it had been in my husband s lunch box and he didn t drink it so i put it in the frezzer for my grandaughter the next day : hense the dirty side>>>>>>> aggghhhh.......I know this is bigger than me............ and i can t fix it......Just fix me......and try to keep me sane....BUT REALLY!!!!!!

SO MANY NEW peple here......I wish i could post my old picture of Tanner but it is on my old computer...........Lonely Mama Huggs to ALL

Cindy Tanners MOM FOREVER

[Guest msnher]

Leah - don't you just shake your head. I mean, really! Each one of my children and my mother have been in jail at one time or another. I have been to court with all of them (including my mother) and yet, I have never broken the law. Well, speeding... More prayers for you!

Two things: First, Kate, if I hadn't been so hellbent on defending myself yesterday, I would have shared it then but pride prevented me. As I scraped the car windows yesterday morning, the engine running, a doe and her two fawns casually walked to the corner of my yard and just stood there. I froze because I didn't want to scare them, and the kids didn't get to see it, but it was awesome.

Second, shallow...my husband (as wonderful as he is) and I are on different sides, politically speaking. Somehow we've learned to live in peace about it all. Until he quoted Rush Limbaugh yesterday. He is a Rush fan...I can't stand him! I like Rachel Maddow. I would pay money to listen to her speak. I wouldn't take money to listen to Limbaugh. Yet, he brought him up...I called him an idiot that makes my skin crawl (Rush, not Gary) and we changed the subject. But, here's what's happening in Casper Wyoming. The city is meeting to determine whether they will continue to allow concealed weapons in public meetings.

No lie. It is now legal to carry a loaded gun into a city counsel meeting. People are fighting to preserve this right. Seriously.

[hoosiermom]

Hello Indigos

Daughters.......

Haven't spoken to my oldest in two weeks now, because of a library card. Yep that's right, a stupid library card. Youngest daughter and I went to the town library, she wanted to rent movies and was told by the libriarians that she couldn't because her sister already had 3 movies out....youngest daughter says "Why does that matter, she doesn't even live with us anymore" So then it became an issue because I AM ON THE LIBRARY BOARD! I call oldest daughter and tell her, hey you can't rent movies here anymore unless you pay for a library card, it's 30 bucks a year. She tells me, Well that really pisses me off, and hangs up on me!

Last night youngest daughter chastises me, saying, geez Mom you've already lost one daughter and now you're being stubborn. I guess I am. I don't appreciate being hung up on like I don't even matter. It's rude and disrespectful. I want an apology, I want oldest daughter to stop behaving like a spoiled child who didn't get her way.

Oldest daughter was 21 when Brianna died. Seven months later, her stepbrother (by her dad and stepmom) was killed in an accident. It was terrible, he was a senior in high school. Oldest daughter has told me that Brianna's death didn't really affect her as much as her stepbrother's, because Brianna was disabled and "was gonna die someday anyway". Yeah that was hard to take, I had to just walk away and tell myself, she's not a mother yet, she doesn't know what she's saying.

And yet she continues to post on FB about how important family is......????

Thanks for listening, we are not alone in this journey for sure.

Love Jenn

I