I Am Dying...

[marilynwhite3049]

I relate to so many of the writings I hardly know where to begin. This disease (cancer) has taught me humility. As a recovering alcoholic I thought I had learned and practiced humility. But having to ask for help is a really, humbling experience.

This board has helped me realize that people are hurting everywhere. I know that my pain (psychic) comes and goes. Does everyone's? Can you be having a good time, even laughing, and realize that tears are running down your face? Do you make people uncomfortable by being too honest? I almost feel as if I have moved into a different dimension from my friends and family. Last May, after my diagnosis, I began cleaning closets and file cabinets. I am a packrat. I did not want my family to have to go through 10 years of bank statements and other useless paper I held on to.

I also threw winter clothes away. The Merck Manual, which I borrowed, is supposedly a tool that doctor's use. It told me that the median survival time for my diagnosis was 3-4 months. Well, I was foolish. I needed winter clothes. I don't mean to be griping about needing winter clothes, I am thankful for life everyday that I wake up and realize I am still here. Does anyone else do goofy things?

I feel alone. Every Monday I go to a support group for women cancer survivors. I am the only one who doesn't have a cure. Last week, I brought up the subject of death. My fellow group members could hardly wait until 6:30 which is when the meeting ends. They were looking at their watches. One woman made a joke of almost everything. Another woman, who has been diagnosed for the second time, said she and her family have never discussed her wishes in case of death. Am I weird?

I appreciate the support of this online experience. Guide me through this experience. I feel that there is surely someone out there to show me the way.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilynwhite3049, no, you're not weird. You're so perfectly normal, you make those who joke about death and dying as a psychological defense look nutty. We go through many feelings, whether it's you facing your own death, or me facing my wife's. I will never dare tell you that what you feel is like what I feel. This is impossible. On the day I lose my wife, I live on to feel my emotions of loss. She will not be here. Emotions are usually very intense for us now. My tears are a constant, and yes, I can be telling a funny story when my tears start. I not only will lose my wife, but I've also lost my 21 year old daughter.

It's a little different talking to a computer screen, isn't it? It took me a while to get comfortable writing here, but the friends I've come to know are the greatest in the world. It's kinda like having your best friends sitting in your living room, and talking about what you want to talk about. The difference is, we're scattered about the globe, literally.

We all do silly things, whether we're healthy or ill. According to your doctors and other medical information, I don't think it's a weird, abnormal thing you did with your winter clothes. It's a response to your situation. I understand it, and what your dealing with (even if I'm the one who's going to be widowed).

Being a recovered alcoholic and addict, I'm proud of you for your accomplishment. Recovery is a good teacher, especially when it comes to humility.

You seem to still have a lot of strength, even though you're fighting a terrible disease. I hope this board helps you with the feelings of loneliness. I check for messages almost daily, about as much as my email. I've grown to appreciate and rely on the board so much. Take good care of yourself, please. My prayers are with you. Mark

[mamabets]

For Alwaysmyjennifer- It's me, mamabets- I have just been trying to find you, and once again, I found you here helping everyone!! I hope that you are holding up OK, holding your Mary, and I hope that you know that my Danny is always near, watching out for all of you. Close your eyes and whisper his name, for he is on a mission to see to it that whether you be here, or whether you are ready to go "there", he will assure you that this place of beauty, this new "land of make believe come true" is all that you would ever dream of for Mary and for Jenni... " To fear death is just not necessary- It's life that can cause us all of this pain and sometimes suffering, it seems"!! Just hang here with us and we will carry you through!! I am thinking about you always,,,xoxomamabets

[mamabets]

For Marilynwhite3049- Welcome to our place of comfort- I am not dying, in that I haven't been told, but you know what?? My husband told me once that "We were all born to die" and my God, after losing my son in 2004, that became such a reality. Good mothers and good Daddy's are never to bury their children, but they do and I have found this experience of having to let him go extremely painful, yet quite beautiful too. My Danny is an amazing soul, and he is helping all that are willing to show all that believe in him, a place, somewhere over the rainbow, that is simply awesome, and I have positively come to a place in my heart, that if given the chance to bring him home or leave him in his new home, the latter has taken the lead. He has clearly shown me that he LOVES where he is, and how he is. I honor that... Take extra good care of yourself and whisper to my Danny... He would love to make another friend, as would I, and I always have made special friends here at Beyond Indigo!! Please, stay with us all!! xoxomamabets

[marilynwhite3049]

Mamabets and Alwaysmyjennifer: your messages affirm that I am not alone. I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain of losing my son. I was in a relationship until last year. A woman called me at work and informed she and my mate had had an affair for 10 months.

He and I got together when we were both pretty new in recovery. I had 13 months sober and clean, he had six months. We grew apart through the years. Although I recognized we had grown apart, I still considered him my best friend. I was shocked at the deceit and dishonesty. He was a person that I did not know. I even asked him, "Why not tell me you wanted to leave the relationship?" I would have let him out of the emotional commitment, I didn't ask him to let me out because I was worried how he would cope and stay sober without me. Talk about pride, now I believe that that was the beginning of my lessons in humility.

Cancer has been a blessing in many ways. I have been able to talk to my family about things I could never bring up before. Also, I have experienced kindness that I never knew existed before.

Before all this, I thought I wanted to die quickly, without warning, just pop and be gone. Since God gave me a forewarning, I have tried to use it wisely. I sold my house so nothing would go to probate. I have my funeral planned and paid for. I've made amends to people who didn't expect it. Now, it's almost like I'm waiting for a late bus.

For the first three of four months, I was insane trying to get my affairs in order. Plus, friends feel such an urgency to see me that my schedule is usually planned days in advance. I still work. My bosses are awesome.

If I have to be sick, which I feel well most of the time, but God has surrounded me with love and support. People say they don't know how I do it. God does it for me. He carries me through and helps me with situations that used to baffle me.

I love this board. I feel as if I have come home to cyberspace. You are exactly what I needed. God has given me everything to get me through what should be a terrible sickness.

I pray for you in Beyond Indigo. All of you. God has blessed me one more way by leading me to you. I can't remember how I got to this site, but I immediately put it in my boodmarks because I was sure I did not want to lose it.

Marilyn

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, in all I've seen over the last few years, dealing with my wife's progressing illness, I've grown a lot more emotionally aware of the needs of others as they deal with long term or terminal illnesses. Like you, God is important in how I deal with my daily world. God has been through it all with me, including my recovery from acid and alcohol. My father in law has fought with cancer for about ten years, and he's also taught me a lot about facing down illness. He's a great man, one I'm proud and honored to know. He told me about a book he read, that told of things cancer can't do. It can't take away our joy, happiness, hope, peace, faith, or love. It may be able to inflict such damage to the body, but it can't inflict the spirit. Since you've come here, I offer up prayer daily for you.

Taking care of your life now is such a great thing, so like you say, probate can't touch anything, or your son would have to deal with issues that may prove painful. As for us, we're working on these issues, such as getting a burial plot where we first lived after falling in love so many years ago. The view of the mountains there is so pretty, and near a rambling old house that my wife wanted me to buy for her for ages. Enough of me getting all sentimental.

I'm sorry your relationship ended in such a way. The way you dealt with it shows not just your love for him, but your own strength of character. This is so admirable. Yet, those lessons in humility come our way even though we'd rather they stay gone.

Please take gentle care of yourself. Even if you're still trying to work, you need time to rest and pamper yourself. I'll continue to pray for you, Mark

[marilynwhite3049]

Alwaysmyjennifer: my spirit is lifted when I see a new posting. i have been home from work for the last two days because of respiratory infection. I am able to do some work from home but I miss human contact.

I love my dog but even she was getting on my nerves yesterday. Hopefully, my fever will be down and I can go back tomorrow. God has blessed me in my profession. I get to help others. When I am focused on them, I am not wallowing in my own stuff.

My work might be one of the things that keeps me going. I can't decide. Either I have not completed God's plan for me, or I have not made the spiritual progress needed for the biggest spiritual experience of life--death.

This week I missed my support meeting because of infection. Although in the past I have gained much support from the group, I made them uncomfortable the last time I was there by bringing topic of death into play. It's possible they were glad to see I wasn't there. They would not wish sickness on me but I feel some would rather stay in denial.

I'm rambling. Thank you to all who participate on this board.

[Guest Guest]

Good Evening –

Your site moderator has given me permission to post on this site.

First, let me say that I have no intent of insulting anyone, causing harm, or to making anyone feel uncomfortable.

I am a doctoral psychology student preparing a term paper on death and dying. My main concern is to include in this paper the feelings and comments of individuals like yourselves. I am not currently in your position, so I will lend myself to your concerns, feelings and intents. This information will be used to comfort others who are dying and in need of comfort.

If you feel comfortable please respond to this post, if you do not I understand and I apologize for the intrusion.

Bahiyya Amh-Shere

[marilynwhite3049]

I am comfortable with you doing research. Past research is the reason my experience with cancer has been as comfortable as it is. I was diagnosed last May with terminal cancer.

I immediately began preparing to die--made funeral arrangements, cleaned file cabinet of old bank statements, etc. I even threw my winter clothes away. According to the Merck Manual, the median survival time for my diagnosis was 3-4 months.

Throwing my winter clothes away was not a good thing to do. Do you have a specific question or topic you want to explore? I will help if I can.

[bahiyya]

Thank you so very much.

Specifically I want to know your thoughts and feelings. What do you want others to know about this experience? What can you share with others who will find out in the near future that they too are facing this episode in their lives? Do you have regrets that you care to share? Do you have successes that you care to share? If there were one specific thing that you could tell another person -- what would it be?

Any of all of this would be helpful -- but please, do not stick to this script -- tell me your story.

I'm in Atlanta, Georgia and it is about 30 something degrees this evening -- no throwing out your winter clothing was not a good idea if you are anywhere other than in the topics.

Thank you again,

Bahiyya

[bahiyya]

that should have been "anywhere other than the "tropics" ooops!

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, I hope you're feeling better today. I took a day out for a migraine. You have something there, with your thoughts. We're here til our work is done. A few years ago, I was critically ill, but for some reason, God saw fit to leave me here. I'm semi-retired, but I still keep active in the music world. We need these things to give us fulfillment, purpose, and health. I had to giggle about your dog, who sounds like my cat. They act like little children at times, don't they? hehehe. Maybe you're right about the meeting, and maybe you becoming ill was really a blessing for you, so you wouldn't have to see any discomfort from them??? I don't know. And no, my friend, you're not rambling. I've enjoyed reading every word you wrote. I look forward to hearing from you. My prayers are with you.

[marilynwhite3049]

I am glad you are back Alwaysmyjennifer. God must have something more for you to do, I agree. Doctors just practice medicine, they don't know everything.

About my life story, that is something I will have to cut and paste, I tend to ramble and the site would time out in 30 minutes. Typing is not one of my better skills, plus I am 52 and have lived a full, hectic, addicted until 34, sober ever since, life. For the high points: I was a young mother, been divorced three times, didn't go to college until I was 43 and now work as a substance abuse counselor for the state. My clients are parolees and probationers. More later, I must get ready for work.

Until now, I didn't realize how much I wanted to tell my life story. Maybe you are the best thing that could have happened to me, asking for my thoughts, feelings, and wishes.

More later, this board has given me an outlet that was much needed. Thanks to all.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, wow! How young? My first was born when I was, ready?, 13. My second, with a different girl, came along when I was 16. My life early on was on the other side of what you do, but then I got clean and sober in 1980. I'm a musician, doing recording and shows. The last year or so, I took off work to care for my wife. With all you've been through, and all you've accomplished, I'm proud of you for that, and I think you should also be proud of yourself for what you've done. Amazing! Now, my pride and joy is my grandson, who's now 5. Take care of yourself tonight, and rest well. If you want to tell your story, and you don't want to time out with the editor, you're welcome to use my email. Try bluesbassist72@yahoo.com. I'll catch you later, after I hopefully get some sleep. We're planning to get socked in with snow this weekend, so I need all the sleep I can get before shoveling the drive. My prayers are with you.

[mamabets]

For Marilynwhite3049- If you don't mind my asking, Marilyn, what were your symptoms and where did the doctors tell you your cancer was and how do they now explain that you are still with us?? I ask this, because doctors never cease to amaze me in that they think, many of them, that they were somehow given some kind of right to determine when one will die, and in doing so, very often inflict all kind of fear on a heart that is troubled already... SHINE ON, Marilyn, and keep us all posted on a steady basis... You are a true inspiration, and "living" proof that a pecaeful heart speaks volumes... You are well rid of the guy and well rid of a relationship that HE has lost out on-xoxomamabets

[marilynwhite3049]

My first symptom was that my left bicep was sore. At first I thought I had strained it. Like, at night, I would roll over on it and it woke me up because it was painful. It rocked on like that for about six weeks.

One Saturday morning, I got out of the shower and as I was drying, I felt a small knot--not a big as a marble. I didn't dry my hair, put on makeup, anything. I jumped in my clothes and went immediately to a walk-in clinic.

The doctor did some xrays and told me it could be a fatty tumor, a cyst, or it could be a malignancy (not sure of the spelling, but anyway, cancer). He gave me some mild pain pills and had the nurse schedule me an appointment with a surgeon.

By the time I saw the surgeon, my right shoulder was also giving me some problems. The surgeon removed the tumor in my left bicep. He told my mother and sister that he had been a surgeon for 17 years and had never removed that type of tumor from a muscle.

A few days later the surgeon called me at work. He told me the tumor was adenocarcinoma of unknown primary origin. His nurse scheduled an appointment with an oncologist for about a week later.

During that week, I borrowed a Merck Manual, which is a tool doctors use for a variety of diseases. I found adenocarcinoma and read the section. It said there was not a cure, it often had poor response to chemo and radiation and that the median survival time was 3-4 months.

At that time, I owned an older home. My dog and I lived in an old neighborhood and in the evenings we would often sit on the front porch. I had a porch swing and Snowflake was laying nears the steps. I read the section again and again.

We went into the house and I fixed something to eat. But before I could eat, I read the section again. My mind would not absorb the dismal words. It was such a horrible diagnosis, and this big book only had less than a page to say about it.

My mom and sister planned on going with me to see the oncologist. They got to my house a little early. I asked my sister to read that section because she was going in with me to talk with the doctor. I didn't want her to be blind-sided.

My mom had lost her sister to breast cancer in January and her mother to alzhiemers in February. I wanted to protect my mom from the terrible truth. I watched my sister read the section two or three times. I kept my mom talking because I did not want her to suspect the truth. I could see my sister could not believe it.

I had written down pertinent things from that section. When the doctor came in and said she could not offer me a cure my sister immediately started crying. I got my paper out and handed it to the doctor. I pointed to things and said "Is that true?" she responded, "Yes."

When I got to the median survival time, she said that she "practiced" medicine but decisions like that were beyond her expertise, that a higher power made those decisions. I told the doctor that I didn't have time to be sick, I had bought a new car, I had house payments, I walked my dog every day, I loved my job. She nodded, and told me she would help me maintain the quality of my life if I would work with her. I agreed.

She gave me medicine for the pain. By this time, I had not had a full night's sleep in probably two months. I was diagnosed in May. My doctor has helped me. I talk medicine on schedule. My pain has been controlled and I have taken medicine for attention deficit disorder to counteract the side effects of the pain medicine.

The doctor told me the first day that I would have to take things one day at a time. My sister and I both had to laugh at that. In AA, I had been living one day at a time for 17 years. I felt confident I could do it. God has made it possible.

Thank you for asking, Mamabets. To me, this illness has been a blessing in many ways. Yes, I am sad to leave my loved ones but I feel I am going to a better dimension, call it heaven if you want. I know God has never failed me, he has taken me from being a convict to being a productive part of my community. It hasn't been Marilyn but God who has made the transformation.

This board has been another blessing. It is my first experience with a message board, I have never been in a chat room. I'm rambling.

[marilynwhite3049]

This is a post script, I forgot to say that the doctors can not explain why I continue to go. The last time I was supposed to go in for a checkup, I called and asked if they couldn't just communicate with my hospice nurse about my condition. I am beyond what doctor's can do. Although I am altruistic, I am not willing to participate in something experimental that might make me sick. I did three series of radiation and two series of chemo. That made me sicker and less well that the cancer.

I am thankful my doctor is willing to help me maintain the quality of my life. She was willing to help me get disability from the first but I declined it. If I sat down and dwelled on this illness, I would not last two weeks.

I have lost 40 pounds and sometimes scare myself if I pass a mirror. I no longer look like Marilyn. God is not finished with me yet or either I am slow fulfilling what he has for me to do.

Some days, I don't wish for death but I acknowledge that I am weary of waiting. Spiritually, I am ready. But if I am here, then I must be up and participating in life. I pray that God will spare me being an invalid. To me, being sick, like in invalid sick, is the scariest part of cancer.

I'm rambling again. Love and peace to all of you who allow me space in your life and heart.

[clittlelady]

Marilyn... I'm in tears. Not sad tears though. I want you to know, that every day I have lived beyond the age of 37, the age my brother was when he was taken from us, I had been so much more appreciative of life and not taking it for granted. But after losing my Mother in August, my heart has been at times so weary and unable to feel. But You Marilyn, You have rekindled the feeling of purpose in my soul. Each day I wake up is a gift! And I do want to feel that each day. I will carry that with me, as well as my blessing in meeting you. I will continue to hold you up in prayer, that God's will be done. He IS still using you.

Connie

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, such a strength in your spirit to go one day at a time, which may be a significant part of why you're doing so well with this illness. Those of us who have battled addiction and won (I was hooked on acid and alcohol) know the importance of this way of living. It's so peaceful to be this way. Have you ever partaken of the natural curatives, programs such as Life Science? Just curious. My wife and I understand the mindset of being ready for death, and while not wishing for it, having that exhaustion. I see her weakening a lot recently. But, God is in control, and He'll give us the grace to carry on, the strength to make the journey to His loving arms. I'll keep you in prayer, for rest and relaxation this weekend. You really are a blessing to me, to us all. I truly mean this. Hope your weekend is happy and fun. We'll talk again tomorrow nite. Mark

[marilynwhite3049]

Hello, everyone. Thank you for your prayers and thoughts. I have been sick this week, my greatest fears are coming straight at me. I've known all along that I could die but I have not known if I could walk through being sick. This week I have had to do it.

My job is a God send. I only worked one and one half days. The fellow I have been training to take my position has saved me. My clients are getting to know him and like him. They will transition well.

Although I have been honest with them about cancer treatment, I have not been honest about the prognosis. When asked if I am going to beat it, I have told them "I am a survivor today." God has allowed me to be well enough for them to not know how medicated I have been. My doctor has been a miracle worker in that aspect. God has helped me be rational with my medicine and use it as prescribed. Which for an addict, is a miracle, even for one day. He has allowed me to do this for several months. As a substance abuse counselor I know that I am chemically dependent at this point, however, I do not feel like that person who dragged herself into treatment for the fifth time 17 years ago.

You on this board have become more real to me than my friends. Maybe because I can be honest and not worry about worrying you. My friends feel so helpless and powerless against this disease. Some of them understand there is a difference in surrender and giving up. I have had to surrender to this disease just like I surrendered to alcoholism to get sober.

I'm rambling. My head hurts. Cancer metastasized to my bones back in August. To be specific, it is in my skull. I first noticed a tender spot when I was washing my face before bed. That tiny tender spot is now almost my whole forehead. I changed my hairstyle in an effort to hide it. The knot looked like a knot, I think they call them pump knots. They come up quickly when you get a knock on the head but go down quickly. Well, my continues to get larger and I have a continuous nagging headache.

Sorry for the whining. Rambling and whining, what a combination.

Thank you for being here.

[bahiyya]

Marilyn

Thank you so much for your story. I'm pausing and breathing here because I don't know what to say. You have shared so much information in such a straight forward and passionate manner. You have been of such a great help to me and I just want to say, I wish that I had a magic wand to wave, so that all that you are experiencing could just go away -- but I don't . . . and that's my question for you if you will answer. What do friends, relatives, survivors say to comfort you during this time? What words ring true and sincere? The words that I offer seem so frail, but I hear you, I share your humanity and I believe that healing exists for you on the other side of the spiritual veil.

Peace and Blessings,

Bahiyya

If it is not too much of an intrusion, may I know your age, profession and in what part of the country you reside?

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, the correlation with surrendering to alcoholism is one I've not heard before, relating to illness. I'll ponder that for the night. To be honest with those you work with, or help in your work, isn't the same as having a nondisclosure position about your illness. Maybe some would have relapse if they knew too much??? I don't know how it would play out. To be able to continue as you have without letting on how much medication you take shows strength. Impressive. Please do what you must to relieve the headache. That sounds so very painful. I'll keep praying for you. While you may not feel the same as the woman 17 years ago, trying to make treatment work, I'm glad you did. You're a wonderful influence and help to many. We need more like you in our world. Hope you are able to rest tonight. Hope that headache lets up for you. Talk to you tomorrow evening, Mark

[marilynwhite3049]

Thank you for your interest. I am 52, work as a substance abuse counselor and I live in Arkansas. When you say that I am a help to you, it makes me grateful.

When I was first sober, I worked in a plastics factory making white lawn chairs, Rubbermaid, I believe. We stacked them six high, shrink-wrapped them, and stacked them on another set of six. Well, I somehow injured my hip after about four years of this very physical job. It was a bad period of life for me but somehow, God kept me sober.

In the end, I was able to go to college, collect a small social security disability check, and get a degree. The job injury turned out to be a blessing but when I was going through the period when I could not return to work and could not find another job due to lift limit the doctor had given me, it was bad. Finally, a judge granted me disability, I was helped through the state rehabilitation services for tuition and books, and my world view broadened.

Learning was a good experience. While drinking and drugging I had gone to several colleges. My major had been party. I owed something like $13,000 in student loans when I got sober. Wreckage of my past, anyway, once sober, I began paying on the student loans. By the time I was offered college by the state agency, I was in good standing with the education people. Everything worked out right.

When I look back, which I have done a lot these last few days, my life has been good and bad, God has never failed me. Cancer is the biggest thing I have had to face, I believe. So far, I have been able to work. This past week I have been unsteady, had respiratory infection and am beginning to wonder if my unsteadiness is not something to do with location of bone matastisis.

I know I could find the answer but am afraid to look. All day, I have put off researching the impact of a skull tumor on frontal lobe. Do you understand? Back before the diagnosis, when I borrowed the Merck Manual, I was brave. I thought I could face anything.

This disease has made me face just how little I am. I'm rambling.

Alwaysmyjennifer, acid and alcohol are not a bad combination. Cocaine is what brought to my knees but anything could topple me over now. It was a hard lesson to surrender to the disease. I had to admit to the core of my being that the alcohol was more powerful than me. For a long time, I knew that fact intellectually, but in my heart, I could not accept it. When I finally accepted it, I got sober and stayed sober. In AA, I think they call it a paradox.

Thank you all for your interest and prayers. I believe the good energy reaches me although you did not know where it was going before this post. Love to all.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, my prayers are with you. If there's ever anything you need, please ask. We're here to help all we can.

Wow! As I read more of your posts, more of your life story, I can see you have always been active, working, and even though dealing with addiction, your qualities show, like caring about others.

Getting through the first part of my recovery wasn't easy. I fought it until I did that one little thing you said, accept it. Once I accepted myself as an addict, and accepted my addiction, the pieces came together. I've been clean and sober since 1980. Getting through Jenni's death showed me just how fragile sobriety is. Many times, it would have been easy to drop the ball and go back to the trash, but there are things here to keep me strong, like my children and grandson. Even though my wife was in so much pain, she spent hours sitting with me while I cried and argued over such a thing happening to my little girl. Take care, and rest well tonight. I hope tomorrow is a good day for you.

[bahiyya]

Marilyn

Thank you again for your reply. First, let me say that your postings are NEVER rambles. I receive such a wonderful and postive feeling when I read your posts and they are so encouraging to me, and I am sure to others. You are a wonderful resource for my research paper and for me personally. Currently I am going through some challenges, but your posts always have a healing resonance. That's a gift -- thank you for sharing it.

As I listen to you, I was amazed at how similar we all are. I think as humans we spend so much time trying to focus on the differences when really it is our humanity that unifies us. I too live in the south now, I live in Georgia, that makes us practically neighbors (although I'm originally for the West Coast). I'm 56 and also returned to college later in life. I am working in this doctorate program because I have been so emotionally injured many times in my life that I would like to empower others to avoid the pitfalls if possible, and if not to have the skills to rise gracefully, or at least with determination.

I agree, what sometimes feels like a negative experience oft times have a very positive outcome. God is interesting the way those things just work themselves out.

As to the research -- I would ask you these questions -- how necessary is it to know every aspect of what\'s happening? What does having that knowledge represent? What would it mean to not know?

Marilyn, with your permission I would like to continue to keep in touch with you once my paper is done. Let me know if I can be of comfort in any small way.

Peace,

Bahiyya

[bahiyya]

Marilyn (and any others who might want to respond)

In reviewing my abstract, these are the specific questions I wish to address -- respond if possible.

1) What is it about death and dying that paralyzes humans and holds them so tightly within its cluthes?

2) What are the fears, concerns, regrets, expectations, and misgivings humans have when they are faced with the reality of dying?

3) To what extent are these feelings resolved? How?

4) How can those of us in the field of psychology assist in that transition between life and death?

5) What are words of comfort? What do you NOT want to hear again?

Thank you.

Bahiyya

PS Now I just want to say to Marilyn and all others -- the first rule of counseling is TO DO NO HARM. I want to respect each of you and what you are going through. If these questions are too confrontational or too difficult, disregard them. If there are portions you can respond to without harm, please do so.

Thanks

[marilynwhite3049]

Hello: I am thankful to see you have been here and left questions and prompts for me. This is therapeutic and I cannot identify just why I seize this board like a life line. Anyway, I am grateful.

To Bihiyya, I believe the paralyzing effect of death is because we fear the unknown. All along, since the diagnosis, I have said to myself, "I can die but I'm afraid I can not be an invalid." Although I have used brave self-talk, fear of the unknown is still paralyzing.

When I first got sober, I thought I would be sitting on top of the world if I was legal and my old car was legal, you know, insurance, tags, etc. My driver's license had been suspended for years.

If God had allowed me to set the scope of how high I could reach I would have set my dreams much too low. At that time, I could not even imagine owning a home, keeping a job for longer than a few months, etc. I wonder if death is not much the same way?

Looking back, my life really began when I got sober. In getting sober, I often heard that it takes a leap of faith to trust that things will get better if I quit drinking and drugging. I made that leap of faith and it has paid off well. What if death also requires a leap of faith. To know that what is ahead is so good that I can not imagine it with my small vision of what can be.

Alwaysmyjennifer, I am strengthened by your story of life. We are all the same when it comes to pain. We hurt. I guess I am a survivor, I feel that you are, too. For Bahiyya to take interest in our situation gives me hope.

Today, hospice care is much better than it was 20 years ago. They allow you more dignity now. My sponsor has volunteered for more than 20 years and she is amazed at the changes. For doctors and psychologists and counselors to take an interest in this final part of life means that care and understanding will continue to improve.

Lately, I have had to face a big fear. Being an invalid--that has been my number one fear. This week, I have had to face it head on. You know what? I have enjoyed my mother's company, both in silence and conversation. I told her yesterday that is does not matter how old I get, when I am sick, I want my mother. Just to know she is with me is enough. So far, I have insisted she go home at night.

When I was a child, my brother who is three years younger knew, if we were sick for one or two days, our mother was such a good nurse. But if we tarried, like for more than three days, her nursing was not as loving. We used to tease Mom about it. Today, I said, "I know my three days are up, Mom. I just can't seem to overcome the fatigue." She assured me I could take my time. Just that assurance made me feel better.

I appreciate your listening ear. I will contemplate the other questions. It isn't that they are intrusive or rude, it is just that I need to decide how to respond. Thank you for asking. I believe you will help people in future.

Peace and love to all.

[marilynwhite3049]

Hey, it's me again. I wanted to say that one of my biggest fears is that I will become a burden to my loved ones. My mom is retired and has a busy life. She enjoys her life. I do not want to disrupt her happiness.

Concerns: They are for my family and friends. I feel guilty for this disease. I have smoked cigarettes for more than 30 years. I don't have lung cancer, well, it isn't determined. My cancer is of unknown primary. It could have began anywhere.

Regrets: I guess I don't feel any today. Back in May, I was a little crazy for a while. The urge to get things in order so that my family did not have to guess at what I wanted was something that bothered me. Since my will is in place, the end of life advance directives are complete I don't feel regret.

I believe it took all that it took to bring me to an understanding of me (addiction) so I do not regret any of that. Maybe it is regretable but I don't.

Expectations: I don't know what to expect. People at first wanted me to come to church with them. It took a while for people to understand I was spiritually comfortable. Since then, my loved ones have almost waited as if they expect for me to lead. I don't know where or what I am doing. I feel like that cartoon character, the big rooster, he sees a big hammer coming at him but is unable to move. I see death coming straight at me but am unable to avoid it but that doesn't mean that I understand it or can explain it. But I still try to comfort loved ones.

I believe the last few days are a gift from God. My mom and I have shared some quality time. We've cried and laughed and it's been good. I used to think my little school teacher mother was so stupid. When I got sober, she suddenly seemed to get so much more wise. God has granted me some time with her, she still can not directly discuss my prognosis but I pray we are coming closer.

I believe spending time with my mother has helped resolve some feelings. I cannot identify what those feelings are but I know in my heart that I am more comfortable with the thought of never seeing her again today than I was last Friday.

The helping profession that has supported me have been great. Before this, I had never really thought about terminally ill people. My sponsor has been a volunteer forever and I heard her mention patients but I didn't acknowledge them in my heart as living, breathing people. My doctor and nurse have helped me maintain my normal life. This last few days has been disrupted but until then, I had carried on like the everready bunny or whatever.

Words of comfort. Tell me that my loved ones are okay. I have my funeral planned and have asked the person doing the euology, this is misspelled, but you get the drift, if I might read it. She tells me it isn't finished yet and I believe her but I cannot help but wonder if she isn't just holding out.

Is paranoia normal or expected at this point in the disease, I wonder? Peace to all of you. You are a gift to me.

[marilynwhite3049]

This is definitely my last post script. I promise. You are probably thinking i should just write a book.

Bahiyya, you mention challenges, please tell me more. And negative injuries from the past, please share.

I have learned that you don't have to die to experience grief. I grieve for my dream of graduate school, and for living with a slug for so long, and not working with adolescents anymore. A loss is a loss. Sometimes living is harder than dying, don't you think?

By all means, keep in touch. My first ethic is also "Do no harm." Sometimes that is a fine line, isn't it?

Love and Peace

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, please, feel free and content to write all you wish. This website doesn't penalize us for overusing the english language. If so, I'll use french, or german, or dutch too. hehehe. Sorry, I'm just being silly.

What you wrote sent me into tears. Your mom is such a dear lady. My childhood was a little different from that. I grew up in and out of foster care. My grandfather is my greatest influence, though. He spent so much time, and invested so much love in me. He's the only one who truly believed in me as a person back then. He's also the only one who knew about my daughter, who was born when I was only 13. In recent years, I've been working on rebuilding the things I lost at home with the parents. Funny, the biggest strain isn't my addiction, which they still deny, but it's more that I'm a grandfather. It's slow, but they're coming around.

Take care of you. You'll never be a "burden" to such a precious, loving mom. Cancer can take some things, but it can't take her love from you. May you be blessed for that. I'm always praying for you.

[clittlelady]

Dear Marilyn...

Today is a new day... I hope it finds you peaceful in your soul and a smile in your heart. Regardless of what it brings, you're God's Child and he's with you. I'm so glad you and your Mother have had the time together. From my heart, if My son and I were in the same place as you and Your Mother.... A Burden word never be a word to enter my heart or mind. I Believe I would give it ALL every moment, every day for however long it took, with a willing heart, an eager spirit to be everything he needed. A Privilege beyond measure is what this Mother's heart would accept it as. Relieve your mind of that concept. SHE needs to be there. One day she will NEED to reflect on these days and THIS is what will give her strength and peace of mind, that she WAS there for you. I only say this, because this is the things that I lived through with my Mother, except the roles were reversed. In all my grief and missing her, it's knowing that I WAS THERE and DID ALL that I COULD do to offer her care and comfort. Again, Admiration and respect is what I have gained from all that you've shared.

There was a little old lady who went to church where I use to go, when I did attend regularly, before my Mother's health began to fail her and needed me more on weekends that the church. Every Sunday she would hug my neck (I live in Louisiana and we are huggers and touchers, affectionate, cordial people) and tell me, "Pretty Lady, this Could be The Day that Jesus Comes Back".

All that believe in God and his word, sometimes we lose sight of the fact that through everyday struggles and all the illnesses and curves that life throws at us daily and "our world revolving as it does", that no matter what it seems we must face today, no matter how high the mountain, This COULD Be THE Day!

My Prayers and Love go out to everyone here, but especially YOU Marilyn and your family. Mark and Your Family. It's not over, til it's over...

Connie

[bahiyya]

Greetings Dear Marilyn

Thank you for your responses -- your responses and comments are so very important. Also, thank you for seeing the importance of this work -- it is truly my desire to offer some comfort to you and others. Perhaps that is really one of our missions, i.e., to leave a reference bookmark in the Book of Life that others can access, learn, grow and add their own comments and bookmarks. What do you think?

I did mention challenges, injuries, etc. I will share a bit, but keep in mind I don't want this sharing to become about me - not in a selfish regard, but I want to share as much with you and about you as possible.

A BIT about me

I mentioned I am originally from the West Coast, Los Angeles, specifically. As a child raised in the 50s I was taught that manners, obedience, kindness and selfless living was the keys to the Kingdom, or at least the golden ticket entry to Heaven. Like many other illusionary beliefs pressed into impressionable little minds I took it all in, processed it and took the matter to heart. Actually my chief goal was to satisfy and take care of my mother who always seemed to be so sad. I wondered however, why no matter what I did, or how hard I tried my mother was never satisfied with me or the outcome of my efforts.

Long story short, my mother was (and is) an abuser. Yes, sometimes physical, but ALL the time emotional. As a result I carried, and still do to some extent, the scares, bruises and injuries of consistent emotional attack. I am in therapy now and have come a long way in restructuring my life so as to see my worth -- it is sometimes a difficult journey because what we learn in childhood is reflected in adulthood -- don't you agree. It translates and transfers into abuse marriages, poor selection of friends and associates, poor career choices all based on that one principle of not being worthy.

Basically I want something that you have, but probably will never have, I want a healthy relationship with my mother. One of my at-risk thoughts was -- what kind of person am I that my own mother can't love? Even writing this sentence, I still feel the tinges of pain although I've learned it is HER stuff not MINE that keeps us apart.

I guess it I had to label it, or define my grief it would be the grief of my loss of nuturing from my mother, childhood, my adolescence, my youth. I now realize I have so much to give and share. I am worthy, kind, considerate, loving, passionate -- but every once in awhile the committee creeps back into my head to try to disengage the positive.

OK, that's enough -- TMI as my daughter would say (too much information)!

Take care of you, I'm adding flesh to the skeleton of my paper so I will probably dig in for today, but I'll write to you either this evening (late) or tomorrow.

Be well -- know that you are appreciated and cared for.

Bahiyya

[marilynwhite3049]

Words cannot express my gratitude for you. All of you.

Today my mom came again. She was eager to leave. Her nursing was as loving as before but she has lots of activites and friends and committments. I pretended to fall asleep and then wake up and said, "Mom, I think I just need a nap. I appreciate you being here but I will be okay. Take some time for you. Although you are the one I want when I am sick, I realize that you have a life."

She agreed since I was obviously tired and needing a nap. And I did nap after she left. I called a couple of hours later and asked if she had made it home okay and thanked her again for all the support. She is almost 70 and has arthritis and osteoporosis. But otherwise, she identifies herself as healthy.

Bahiyya, addiction separated my son and me. The same month he was graduating from high school, I was in treatment for the fifth time. I know he felt rejected by his father and me. A child seems to love the parent, no matter if the parent is capable of loving them back.

A long story short, my son went into Navy about two weeks after graduation. When he returned a couple of years later he was addicted to cocaine and alcohol, well, anything he could get. Addiction separated us for the next decade plus.

A couple of years ago, he was in a work release program and got sober. He did it in church which is acceptable. The source is the same no matter where you discover the power.

One of the things I have been grateful for is that my son has been clean through this battle with cancer. He relapsed for a few weeks when I first told him. I put off telling him as long as I could. When I accepted hospice I knew that I needed to tell him but was afraid of toppling his sobriety. He did relapse but I am grateful to say, I believe he is back on track now.

Today, my hospice nurse made her weekly visit. I talked with her about my chronic headache. She talked with my doctor and the doctor has prescribed a steroid for swelling. I believe my headache has already subsided a little.

Earlier, my clinical supervisor called. I told her I was praying that I could work tomorrow. She reminded me that the last illness took me down for several days, but then I recouped and went for another 6 weeks or so. She is right. Maybe the steroids will allow me to go a few more days.

I know I must sound as if I am clinging to life with all I have. It is probably true. From my perspective, if I am alive, let me be up and with the living. I hate to be sick, I do not like for people to wait on me, and it makes me uncomfortable to ask for help.

This disease has taught me some humility. I must have been in sore need of it. Love and peace to all. Thank you for sharing your life with me and allowing me to share mine with you.

Talk therapy or I guess in this case, write therapy is a good tool for clarifying feelings and thoughts that precipitate those feelings. Good night, much love.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, even though you want to be up and active, please remember to take good care of yourself. Exhaustion won't help you at all. Preachin' at myself too, ya know. Caring for my very ill wife has run me down into some deep exhaustion, so I have to tell myself to rest once in a while. It's so good to hear that your son is now clean too. Try not to worry about a little slip up here and there with him, especially with the stress he's under right now. In your line of work, I'm sure you see enough of this type of situation, so you'll understand my fear, that I'll start using when I lose my wife. A few months ago, I set up my 'safety net', meaning I made arrangements with a rehab, so if anything happens with me, my children will take me there. I keep praying for you, especially with the headache. If you're already feeling a little relief from the steroids, tomorrow should be a pretty good day. Being so independent, I know you're doing well in caring for yourself, making sure you rest and eat well. You sound a lot like my wife in that. . Looking forward to hearing from you in the evening. Have the best of days. g' nite.

[bahiyya]

Good Morning Marilyn --

Please allow me to echo Mark's good advice -- remember to take care of yourself -- it's OK. Just in the short time I've come to know you, I see that you are a nurturer -- the world needs more folks like you -- but don't forget nurturers need to be nurtured. OK, enough preachin' from me.

Thanks for the sharing about your son -- I particularly like what you said about the child loving the parent regardless -- that's exactly it -- I do love my mother and want the best for her (she is 88), inspite of the fact that she doesn't seem to be capable of loving me. Through all of the incrediably hurtful episodes she has inflicted, I can't help but to be concerned and want the best for her. That's powerful stuff! Thank you.

As I write my term paper, I am so aware that the story I tell about you and my other participant is part of your life legacy. The responsibility is enormous for me, but the honor far outweighs any anxiety generated by the responsibility. I am reading one of Kuebler-Ross' books "On Death and Dying" and one of the sentiments shared between doctor and patient I wish to share with you.

Just a bit of background -- the patient is participating in much the same type of exchange you and I share and she is lamenting that she is not physically able to "DO", to help, etc. (sound familiar) Anyway, the doctor said to her what other ways can you help people? The patient pondered. Then the doctor said, what we are doing now, do you think it will help others? The patient responded, yes (almost surprised), yes, it will. The doctor says, yes, what you are doing now has the potential to help more people then you were physically able to help during your lifetime.

Again, I would like to borrow these words and transmit them to you Dear Marilyn -- take some time for yourself, realize that what you do here on this discussion board has the potential to help people for generations to come.

Peace and Blessings,

b

PS My friends call me "B"

[bahiyya]

Mark --

No intrusion intended here --

I read your post to Marilyn and I just want you to know that I have been praying for you -- praying for your strength during this difficult time, praying for your steadfastness and your integrity.

I see you as a brave individual - making plans and doing what you can to ensure your sobriety. This is a powerful stance -- I believe you will be successful.

Finally, there is a old gospel that says, "After you've done all you can -- STAND". I see you standing victorious over all situations and circumstances. I see you standing in the midst of the storm and calling for PEACE. I see you standing . . .

Peace and Blessings - Strength and Calm,

Bahiyya

[bahiyya]

Marilyn -

Forgive the multiple postings today - I am working on OUR paper, and as thoughts and questions come, I am taking the liberty of submitting them before they pass into the haze of forgetfulness.

From here forward I will put them in a Word document and submit them all at once. Thanks for your patience.

Primary question, What is your personal meaning of death?

Also, you have mentioned several times the strength and determiknation you receive from God -- what is your spirtuality expressed? I know you said church is not the answer for you -- with is the source, meditation, prayers, I guess I'm asking what form does your spirituality demonstrate through? Is that clear?

Bahiyya

More later,

b

PS Are you familiar with Gibran's The Prophet?

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Bahiyya, thank you for praying. I take no offense in you reading my message. You have asked Marilyn a question, which if you don't mind, I'll answer on behalf of my wife. We've been together over two decades, so I have a very good idea of what she believes. For her (us), death isn't just the cessation of this mortal life. We both believe in Heaven, God, and eternity. As for our particular religion, we follow reformation theology. I love what you wrote about standing. After all the struggles and fights in life, a soldier who can stand after the battle is victorious.

In closing, I think you have a really cool name. May I ask if your name has a particular meaning? And while I tell many suffering from loss to take special care of themselves, I will include you, cuz you're working so hard on your paper. Please take time to rest, and to have a little fun. You are studying for a worthy cause, a service to mankind. My college studies sent me to Julliard (you know right away my career). I also studied social work, and have an msw. Keep up the good work, and may you be blessed for all you do. Thanks for writing. You're welcome here anytime.

[marilynwhite3049]

I second Mark\'s comment on postings. To me, this board is a spiritual connection. What I feel when reading the posts is beyond normal conversation.

My personal idea of death is that it is a physical event that my spirit will experience. Death will mark the end of a phase on the spirit\'s journey. What is next, I don\'t know, I like to think it is like sobriety--so good that my small imagination cannot grasp it.

I believe I have relinquished my will and life to a power that controls all. It is unobtrusive and does not overtake my will. It must be my conscious decision to ask and follow the intuitive urgings I feel.

God has never spoken to me directly. However, his message has come to me through many people and experiences. Once, when working with adolescents, I was feeling low and not very useful. A graduation announcement came for me at work from a client I had been primary counselor for the year before. She had enclosed several pictures and the announcement that she was graduating high school. I felt as if God, or the Spirit of the Universe, patted me on the back and said that I was useful.

Today, I have been dishonest with my mother and recovery sponsor. They both think that the other one is coming to help me. I am feeling some guilt for the lie but it is really nice to be alone with my thoughts and with you. Do you ever need to be totally alone to hear your thoughts?

Am I isolating? I hope not. I know that is not good. Both of you know more counseling than I, advise me.

B: I feel that your interest has helped me clarify my thoughts and feelings. I continue to complain about not feeling able to work, but it is really a blessing to get at peace with myself before I make the biggest spiritual journey I can imagine. Your questions have made me ponder that deepest region of my being.

So far, I have felt peaceful. I believe that is what has surprised the people around me. I am thankful for the AA foundation and all the practice of acceptance and prayer. My life prepared to make this exit if I will only apply all that God has given me and continues to give me through you and others He puts in my life.

Mark, you amaze me. My life is richer for knowing a warrior. Julliard must have been an awesome experience. My parents sent me to piano lessons for 7 or 8 years when I was growing up. They wanted a music, classical, future for me.

Instead, I got into drugs and alcohol, got pregnant, had been married three times by age 21. I am thankful to know someone who made it to Julliard. It seems like the epitome of music. And a lsw. Graduate school was a dream I had to give up last year.

Through this board, I feel that I have touched some of my dreams. There is less anguish when I think of them. Is that understandable?

Love and peace to all. I thank God for you. Both the ones who post and the ones who only read. I know now that there is more in cyberspace than I ever imagined. It took cancer for me to discover it, another blessing.

[bahiyya]

Marilyn and Mark – Greetings!

So glad to get a post from both of you. Mark, I am so thankful for your kind words, encouragements and prayers. It is my hope to “be the change I want to see” and not just “pretend” myself through life – what a waste.

Beloved Marilyn

So glad to hear from you today – again, I am in your debt for your continued support and contributions to “our” paper. Journaling is probably part of your daily ritual, but if by chance it is not – please began now. You are such an excellent writer – your journal entries would be an encouragement to all – if you have the strength, consider extending your legacy. I say, “extending your legacy” because you are obviously leaving such a great legacy in the people you have touched. The opportunity to empower someone is like holding a mirror in front of an individual and allowing them to see their future through God’s eyes. What a wonderful gift to give and receive. We all need light bearers like you in our lives.

I don’t think you are isolating. I am an only child and often enjoy my own company. I see it as being “with” myself, instead of “by” myself. It feels good to self-talk, enjoy my own musing, read aloud (or quietly), laugh aloud and just beeeeeeeee --  No one can comfort you the way you can comfort yourself.

So you were a budding pianist too – well, we are sisters under the skin.  My parents spent a good amount of money preening me to be a pianist as well – although I enjoyed the artistic expression, Julliard was not for me. Like yourself, God had a different direction for me and (also like you) my experiences have allowed me to play another type of music through the people I meet. I play the song of sincerely, I offer the ballet of friendship, I sing the opera of humanity, openness, fairness, love and humility. I’ve heard you play those instruments and sing those songs, so that we can stand proudly next to our brother/friend Mark and listen intently while he delights us with music from the strings of his heart. We are all unique expressions of God – don’t you agree.

Well dearest, with your fine assistance, prompting and confidence, I have completed our final paper. It is our final paper, but not our final sharing.

I’ll be here tomorrow and the next day and the next. Talking (cyber-talking, I guess), sharing and laughing, throughout time.

Be well. Take care. Sleep peacefully. Talk with you both tomorrow.

B

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Marilyn, well, I wouldn't say I was a model student as a kid. As a teenager, I was too messed up with addiction to care what I did, but it's always been the best career. I would never dream that I know more counseling than you, seeing you are in this daily. Solitude is a good place when we need to connect with our souls. We can't be introspective while standing in Times Square at rush hour. Don't recluse all the time, but when you need a little time for you and your thoughts, there are no hard and fast rules, just you and your soul. Whatever works for you. To be dishonest with those who are so close to you, who tend to your needs regularly, may not be in your best interest. But, to tell us about this shows you are not only concerned about saying something to them, but about your own needs. Perhaps, you may feel stifled by all the attention, and they would have a tough time accepting your desire for a little extra privacy. I can understand this. But, most importantly, this time is about you, and nobody else. Those around you need to be supportive of your needs AND your wishes, even for time alone. If you feel they wouldn't be cooperative, it may not be such a bad idea to withhold information, not so much be dishonest. If you say that you have someone caring for you at a certain time, ultimately, you do . . . you. I may be running around Miranda's barn on this, but there are so many aspects to the issue, that wording it isn't easy. I just hope you can make sense out of it. Have a good nite, a great Saturday, and stay warm. This is February, when we get the funkiest weather. Talk to you later, Me

[marilynwhite3049]

Greetings: Thanks for the understanding. It is especially good since I used deceit once more today. I have already cooked up a story for tomorrow. No, a solution will come to me.

I would love to read the paper that B has been working on. How could I get a copy? Any ideas?

You honor me when you say I have contributed. Before I was sick, it was habit, I would ask God to use me this day. "Let me be of service." Well, I continued that until not too long ago. The last couple of weeks its all been about me. I think they have tee-shirts that say "It is all about me." I merit one lately.

My clinical supervisor called earlier. She asked if she could bring lunch and visit with me. It was a great offer. I gladly accepted. She and I have never really got to know each other. When I began this job she was a counselor in a different section from me. I work with only state referrals and our positions didn't overlap.

She bid for a clinical supervisor job and got it. I was happy for her but now she is supervising people on this side of the state who do my job and she is not sure what my job is. I felt useful when she asked me if she could continue calling with questions.

The person who is taking my place is doing well. I knew he could do it. My sister suggested I write all the tasks down with instructions. She is more business savvy than me and said if it is written it is so, so much better than just verbally training someone.

So, that meant that I finally put to use that semester I took of technical writing. You have probably already figured out that I love to write. I love to write anything. Even instructions. My supervisor seemed amazed that I spent the time to write them. She does not understand how hard it is to sit down. When she asked if there was anyway I could come back and do the monthly report one last time, I felt like hugging her. "Yes, Yes." was my quick response.

It's been a good day. I am glad you are here. This continues to be my support and sounding spot. When you respond it clarifies what I am feeling and sometimes I see things in a different perspective. I am so grateful to you. Please let me read some or all of the thesis? Is that what the final paper is called?

Love and peace.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Hi Marilyn, I'm happy to hear your supervisor has become an ally, even a friend. You're wise, even more, you're blessed, to be able to offer advice and assistance at work. You continue to be a vital part, not only of your work, but in the lives of those you helped so well. By training and coaching your replacement, does this mean you're no longer working? No matter on that, as long as you continue to take care of yourself. Hope you can enjoy some rest this weekend. We've had a long, tough week, so I'm a little tired (dealing with my wife's dystrophy). If I'm not quite as tired tomorrow nite, I'll tell you a little of it. But, for now, my prayers are with you, for rest and comfort. My heartfelt best to you, Mark

[bahiyya]

Good Morning Marilyn –

Good Morning Mark –

Greetings and salutations to you both! I am a freed woman today – I actually have a week before the next round of classes begin – I feel like shouting to the rooftop!!! This doctorate program has been a real challenge for me. I breezed through my graduate studies at the Master’s level and thought, “what’s all the fuss about?” This doctorate program has provided me with that answer.

To answer your question Marilyn, our paper was a term paper for my Life Span Development class. The class covered the human journey from conception to the dying process and all the pit stops in between. Your contributions were so very important because, as you might imagine, everyone wants to talk about infancy, childhood, adolescence even, but no one wants to talk about death. My question is, “how can we learn if we don’t talk about the subjects that are difficult?” “How can they become less difficult unless we demystify them?” Don’t you agree? One of my reference sources said that as Americans we “gloss” over death. In our speech, we use terminology that refers to the subject, but does not call it what it is (she passed away, he is just resting). In the industry that prepares the bodies, their focus is on making the person “look” like they are sleeping. Unfortunately this behavior only serves to keep people terrified of a process that is actually a natural part of the “circle of life”. I have always challenged the established norm when the practices don’t make sense, or are harmful. That’s me folks! My mother said that I never passed through the “why stage” – and to this day I remain, asking folks to not just take things at face value – to think – use that tool that God gave you – think –

OK – I’m stepping off my soapbox now! As to our paper, Marilyn – it contains some confidential information from another participant, but I don’t see why I can’t just remove that and email you the rest. The paper might seem a little choppy, but you will no why. Give me a minute to reorganize it, and I’ll send it to you tomorrow. OK?

Let me post this – I have more to say – I’ll be back in a minute.

Peace,

b

[bahiyya]

Marilyn

Thanks for waiting –

Marilyn, you mentioned that my questions allowed you reflection time, etc. I want to share with you some of the things you have done for me. First, your honesty, candidness and straightforwardness were the first bit of fresh air I’ve had in a long time. From the beginning your helping spirit came through, you saw my mission; you recognized that I want to leave the bread crumbs for others to follow, painlessly, if possible. Thank you for this.

You also gave me a sense of propriety. I listened to you; I saved each one of your posts (I still have them). I read and reread them to really hear what you were saying. You are so faithfully serving your purpose to share your experiences with others in order to provide for them an intricate map that leads to a better life. That’s a wonderful gift. Could it be that our experiences – some we label good – some we label bad – were actually our training tools so that we could be of service? Hmmm. Again, thank you.

Your deliberate spirit of continuum – moving in the spirit even when the physical fails, has been of great value to me. Every day you share your plans, surround yourself with activities and goals that reflect that you have a mission this day. You are constantly teaching, sharing and loving. What a good example – I get so emotionally worn down by life sometimes and I must admit sometimes I give in to the “pity party”. I read your task list and challenge myself to “snap out of it” and get busy changing the things that I don’t want to experience anymore.

You said that you pray for God to use you – my dear – it is my suspicion that your prayers have been answered and multiplied in more ways than you will ever realize.

Thank you for your energy, your spirit and your love.

B

PS Question for you – are we “deceiving” people when we are sparing them? Are we being “deceitful” when we are recapturing time for ourselves, or are we simplifying the process by not having to negotiate with others, or convince to explain to others why we elect a certain course, or engage in an exchange that may lead to hurt feelings? What do you think?

Talk with you tomorrow.

[bahiyya]

Mark and Marilyn

Just one last thing I want to share. I was at a training sometime ago and reviewed my notes the other day and discovered something I had forgotten.

This technique is for remembering to take care of self. The facilitator suggested that we pull out a picture of ourselves when we were an infant, or at least a younger child (mine is 20 months). Place that picture in a nice frame and sit it where we will see it often - at least several times a day (desk, table, wherever). Whenever we visit that picture we are to remember that it is our primary responsibility to take care of that child.

The imaging was powerful for me. Enjoy the process.

b

[clittlelady]

MARILYN...

Hi there.... Hope today is a good day for you... Sorry I've been out of touch. I've been working extremely long hours this week and just meeting myself coming and going. You've been in my heart and my prayers though. I had to work late Friday night. We're in a criminal trial where a lady who had been an employee of this bank for years was accused of taking money to the tune of 150,000.00. Her sister testified on her behalf. She is a lady of about fifty eight or sixty years old. She was questioned about her health status, in actively battling breast cancer. The Prosecutor had used this as one of his theories to the jury that the lady took the money from the bank to assist her sister in her medical treatment. I was taken aback by the form of questioning the prosecutor put to her, getting personal about her medical condition. Asked if she was currently undergoing chemo or radiation therapy? She answered "No, sir." He asked her why? Was it because she didn't have the funds? She replied to him very humbly, "No, Sir, when I was 29 I was diagnosed with colon cancer and fought it with radiation and chemo and eventually defeated the cancer." She then followed up with "I later told my family that if that choice were ever in front of me again, that I would opt to not take those treatments." She said "And here I am, waiting." The courtroom was silent and I had to choke back tears. He said waiting for what? I just wanted to throw something at him. End result for her sister, guilty as charged, facing thirty years in prison. Sad.

I've went back and read your posts, trying to catch up.

Gosh, it's so cold here. Did you guys get the ice up in Arkansas. We only got just a little sleet... not to bad, but very, very cold... wind chill 14. This wet Cold is tough. I loved it when we lived in Colorado... Dry... My husbands family is there. I have one brother who lives there as well, but he and I no longer maintain a relationship following my Mother's death and extenuating circumstances (He's a jerk).

Last week it was in the 70s. I brought home a Mustang Convertible and drove it for a few days to see if I thought I could go from driving an SUV back to a car... Oh Yes... For the first time since my Mother has been gone, I felt ALIVE. I thought of you and how we're all on the same course... How everyday we live, we're all one day closer to our destined time. My Mother always said She was living to die. I thought that odd sometimes, but she was. She was joyous in her spirit, before her health deteriorated to the extent of having to have sitters in her home. She always told me this day could be the last and only what's done for Christ will last... Oh she gave those sitters the devil... Fire them, left and right, told them "She was the Boss" and they could just get in their little car and leave and not come back. Ms. Independent... until finally she had a jewel, actually three of them, but her favorite, Ms. Lillie was her spiritual partner and would read her Bible to her.

I miss her.

Marilyn... You're in my prayers for strength, physically and emotionally, peace of mind, body and spirit to face each day.

Connie

[marilynwhite3049]

Greetings: I can not express how happy I am when I open this board and see postings. For a long time, I've tried to leave results in a higer power's hands. So far, He has done so much better than me.

Until I discovered this board, I did not realize my need for it. Maybe I have been housebound for too long. You know, I had kinda asked God to allow me to work up to the very end. Well, not out and out asked, but kind of hoped.

He has decided that I need to sit down, ponder things, learn, get acquainted with myself. This is so much better than working all the time but it is not quite comfortable. Do you ever feel that you are not living in your life?

It is an experience totally alien to me. I don't even remember feeling these things when I took acid, and that was the whole point. I've been doing reading about "the end" with cancer. How the body can gradually slows down until it comes to a final halt.

Enough, dwelling in the depths!!

I eagerly await B's excerpts. It is gratifying to think that I played a part. Why is it not okay to take without giving? See, I've begun to question my every urge.

My friend came and spent the day. My deceit with my mother turned out to not be deceit. My friend came and made my lie the truth. She was able to see the humor in it all when I told her.

I feel peaceful. You have given me strength and hope. The story about the breast cancer was sad. People come in all types. Lawyers are not some of my favorite people.

I have known nice people who became lawyers. I could never figure out how they could put on that adversarial persona. And it wasn't just a persona, to be good it must be real.

But I have witnessed some heartless stuff since I have been sick. But for the crap, I've seen and felt 10 times more good stuff. I ask God if I can live in his world. In the mornings usually, after I ask him to keep me clean and sober.

For some of us, our work enviornment is full of muck. Trust that nothing happens in God's world by mistake, if you watch and wait, everything works out right if we are in God's world. That's my thoughts.

love and peace to you all. I'll will check in later. I'm rather scattered today.

The picture of myself. Would you believe I even have a small empty frame? It's silver and I got it for Christmas. When I opened it I thought, "What a strange gift," I had no idea of my need for it. B, you gave me just the need. Thank you. I forget that little girl.

[marilynwhite3049]

I can never say it all in one post. Isn't it great that the computer allows us to come back. Not like when you drop a hard copy in the mail. The weather here.

It is dastardly cold. In the 20s, I think. One thing about being sick, weather isn't important. When I think about weather last week, it had meaning, isn't that strange?

After I was diagnosed, I'm a control freak, anyway, I began to immediately make necessary plans. I sold my house and moved into an independent retirement community.

If I need assistance, it is here. It is a community but I have never took the time to become a part of it. I think the average age us mid 70s and I am 52. The residents, most of them, don't even drive. I haven't exactly fit in. It has been my fault.

I told a couple of them that I lived here because my doctor said I was going to get sick. I was in denial but thought I wasn't all the way until He made me sit down.

The weather is supposed to get worse. I mean ice and snow worse, not colder worse. It is rather nice to not care. I don't ever remember when the weather didn't matter before. Thank you for helping me see my progress. I guess it is progress, i'll call it progress.

I love you and am so thankful for you.

[clittlelady]

Marilyn...

I've often felt my life was living me, instead of my living my life. That's a sad place to be. You lose out on the joy and the pleasures of little things that God sets right before us. The beauties that are simple, but yet mystifying. Some of us never get a grip on what it all means, until you lose something, someone very precious and dear to you, then and only then does the reality of what gift we've been given truly register to this brain that the majority of the population never even use one fourth of. God has given us so much, but yet so little is actually ever acknowledged. Sometimes I wonder why he made such a grand world to be taken for granted by so many of his children. His artistic flare shows every evening in the sunset and his promises in the rainbow. How magnificant. For the first time ever, two years ago, I saw the perfect double rainbow, from end to end it was perfect, brilliant colors, true testimonial to the love he has for his children. It was during one of the most difficult points of my life, when my husband and I had separated and I felt so lost and unloved and alone. I felt he had put it out there that day, just for me, just to remind me of what a might God who is in control of my life, if I will only let him be. Thankfully, my husband and I worked things out, so much that I know I couldn't have done on my own.

He's with you Marilyn. I'm thankful, as I've said before, to have become acquainted with you. He is still using you. And he will, until the day you step into glory with him. Between the loss of my Mother and meeting you, I've gained so much depth into his love and purpose. Even on days when I'm down, I see the light, I see hope, I know it's going to be okay. I look forward to the day, as did my Mother, to meet him face to face, bow before him and thank him in person for all his goodness.

Love to you this night my Friend.... God Bless You ..

Connie