Loss of an Adult Child

[ericasmom]

Amy, to be told that there is a wedding in a week, that her Daddy is not going to walk her, and to expect money to help pay is a lot to deal with. Jeff will have to figure out what he can do to help with money but I will tell you what my niece Kari, did when she married. She had her step dad walk her half way down the aisle, where her dad met them and Kari then released her stepdad's arm and held her dad's. They walked the rest of the way. Very nicely done, inclusive. I know how you feel about the wedding part too, it is hard to go to weddings for kids the same ages as ours. I have been to a few, it actually gets easier with time. I too have dealt well with exwife and family but it is never what I look forward to. Good luck, if you go, go out and purchase something that you think that you will get some use from in the future. I am sorry that you have had such a hard day, some of the memories haunt us in a way, begging us to stay in the sad state they leave us, but sometimes we re-examine the memories and find some ways to let them go< making more room for the better memories.

Yes Sherry, it has been a hard road for JOn, this March 31st will be two years since his Daddy died. JOn is doing pretty well now, his girl/fiance' has been with him since right before Mike got sick so they have shared a great deal. He went to therapy for a while, not too long ago, it helped I think. He definitely has some anxiety issues, but had them before his Sis died.

We are not supposed to get snow, it is damp, windy and supposed to warm up tomorrow into the mid 40's. It was drizzly today, and cold. I am ready for some warm.

Marcia, so good to see Bethany's beauty on screen today. Good to know that you are outthere, blessings.

Love and hugs and deep sleep-

dee

[ericasmom]

Prayers for those in Japan with the earthquake that shook them and the tsunami that rushed over them...

[dwsmithrn]

morning friends....i made it home....slept better last night....i am SOOOO glad to be home...i feel safer and better to be here and my husband, jim, was so glad to see me. a week is a long time to be apart, especially right now. we still need each other at this time, and he knows how much i need him. i have never been so 'needy', but i surely am now. i am settled back in my comfort zone, and happier to be here. i think lee was really upset that i left him, but the time had come, it was time for me to be home. if he didn't understand, oh well. he did make the comment, mom, i'm sure this is the first time you have even smiled since, well, you know.....and at that point, the tears started up. then, he had to leave the room. you can't help but smile at the little children. they will make you smile, even if you don't feel like it. but it still does not take your sadness away. nothing takes that away. it is branded in your heart forever.

now that i am home, i hope i can work on getting my body to heal. i don't feel very well and i hope some quiet rest will help. this whole thing SUCKS!!!

i am glad to catch up with everyone....hope you all have a good day...i am with you in spirit, even if i don't express in words to each individual person, i read and i 'listen' to what you have said. i think about what you have written. i know you all are going through your own turmoil and other life experiences and i hear you. you all are in my heart, even if my heart is shattered, i can find some room to add you in it.

diane

[dwsmithrn]

where do i order one of those bumper stickers?

diane

[crystalann]

Morning all. I have been thinking alot about dreams. I didnt really have dreams anymore,but about a week before i had a dream i was in a big closet with my mom(she passed 2 1/2 years ago) looking for a sweater cant stand them she always made me where them we were talking and my husband walked in with blood coming out his mouth and nose i woke up. thought maybe it was a warning about him going to work in the mines. Well that is how Tyler looked. Then 2 days after Tyler was in my dream just standing there looking at me.Then 2days later had another him just standing there he was with my mom . she asked to borrow money i gave it to her she said bye and they drove off he never said a thing. Havent had another dream since. Just thought i would share that thanks for always listening

[ericasmom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1I90JcF85o&feature=related

This song seems especially moving today, the message so clearly felt...can't let another moment slip away,

[westleysmom]

Diane-So glad you're back home, take care of you for a little while and get some rest. I think Greg had said to send him a PM with your information and whether you had paypal or not. I can't remember if he's BriansDad or how he's listed on here, its been a few days since he posted. Greg, are you there? I never have worked up my order yet, its been crazy around here.

Amy-I'm sorry for the surprise wedding and the grief it is giving you and Jeff. My friend's daughter is getting married in Sept and they've gone dress shopping today. I think about it a lot because that's been going on (I work with her everyday), that I won't have another wedding to help plan or pay for and it makes me so sad (the planning, not the paying for!) When my daughter married, she was only 18, and Westley was 15. He was a groomsman, and he looked so handsome. I remember him walking me to seat me and trying so hard not to cry, I'd been crying hysterically in the back of the church before it started, when no one was looking. My face is all swollen in the pictures. But it was a happy day for my daughter and son in law. And those thoughts of physical pain that our babies might have had, those come to me as well. I wonder if he knew that his breathing was slowing down, if he felt the sensation of not being able to breathe and fought it, or if it just happened peacefully. There was no witness to give me comfort that it was peaceful. Only my imagination that runs wild sometimes with the thought of how it was. There is no easy way out for us, is there?

Lorri-Take care and I hope you have a good time with Lynn. I look forward to seeing your pictures when you get a chance.

Marcia-I second that, I am glad to see Bethany's beautiful face and here from you.

Sherry-Did you get all that snow? I'm sure that Davey knew how much you loved him, still love him. And Lisa too. Westley didn't tell me things that he thought would upset me, but we got along pretty good most of the time. I miss that boy and sitting on the back porch with him while he smoked. My husband has asthma, so no smoking in the house, except right before Westley died, it was really cold and I told him he could smoke in the little bathroom that we are remodeling now if he shut the door and opened the window a little. It was not a room we used much, so it was apart from the rest of the house. I always told him those things were going to kill him, and he would just smile. He tried to quit every now and then, but never could.

I went to see Westley's friend last night in jail. I was the only visitor, they can have up to three. He looked pretty good and seemed in fairly good spirits. It helped me to feel like I was doing something that Westley would have wanted me to do, would have done himself if he was here.

Thinking of those in Japan and Hawaii and the West Coast. And all of you my friends.

[ericasmom]

TRUDI, MICHELLE, are the waves threatening your homeland?

[Guest msnher]

Good morning, Indigo's;

I echo Dee's prayers for the people in Japan.

Crystal - I think there is significance in your dreams. Some dreams I attribute to what I ate for dinner, but some dreams, I think, are definitely messages either from the departed or from our consciousness. I think your dream is confirmation that Tyler is with your mother. I think the significance of your mother borrowing money from you is her way of letting you know she has "borrowed" something valuable from you and at the appointed time, your appointed time, she will return it - in this case your most valuable possession. The significance of being in the closet with your mother, looking at sweaters, is a message that you are going to go through a dark time over something you don't like, but she will be with you. And, it will be very hard on your husband. Let him in your closet, dark place, with you. You two need each other right now, and I am not saying it is harder on him than it is on you, but he is internalizing all his pain...and, his pain is great. Just my opinion.

Diane - glad you made it home. I hope you are able to get feeling better, physically, soon. This whole process sucks. You order the bumper stickers from Greg, "Briansdad", Just private message him with you address and your order. I haven't been to the mail box all week to see if mine are there, yet.

Amy - Step children and weddings bring about enough stress on it's own merrit without the added pressure of grief on your shoulders. Sheese, weddings with biological children bring on a whole amount of stress by itself! In most cases we have to tread so carefully when step children are involved. Perhaps the idea of her step dad walking her down the isle came from her mother and she's obliging?? At my sons wedding reception he and I danced our mother son dance and half way through I handed him to his step mother. That was totally impromptu. It was a long song and I was tired and both son and I noticed his step mother sitting there. She never had children of her own. It really was touching. And, I got to be the hero of the day. I am so full of myself!

Oh...Crystal..Stephanie never speaks in my dreams. She spoke in a dream only once and in that dream she didn't show herself. I was given a picture of me holding Mariah, Jasmine and Jonathon like they were babies. Stephanie's voice said, "You have to nurture and train them like they were toddlers, Mom, because they stopped maturing when they were toddlers."

Gotta go.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Guest msnher]

Rhonda - I think you and I must post at the same time in the mornings, so I don't see your posts until I'm through typing mine. In other words, we posted at the same time. (rolling my eyes). I'm glad going to see Westley's friend made you feel good.

[dwsmithrn]

thanks for the kind words...i am going to rest today and do nothing else, but try to get my body to heal somewhat....as for my heart, well, that is a different story....i have shed enough tears today to make a river.

i have not experienced any of the dreams that everyone else has had....will i ever have a dream about nathan? why does he not come to me? i wonder...is he not safe somewhere? i still feel so much guilt and i am not at ease...i miss him so much and i want to feel his presence, but it is not happening...not even at the beach....i dread next weekend, the spreading of his ashes in the ocean. how will i get through that? maybe i will feel more at peace after that...just maybe. i don't know. hard to know what i feel at any given moment anymore.

i PM'd greg about the bumper stickers...i would like to have a couple of them, so maybe i can get in touch with him and get that rolling....thanks for the contact info....

i am going to rest for ahile....later......diane

thinking about all of you....

[ericasmom]

As most of you know I had 4 significant dreams that preceded Eri's death. All of them scared me and found me screaming and crying, never seeing what it was that was getting ERi, the last of the 4 was me giving her eulogy at the church we attended when my kids were Kids. (which is where we had the funeral, and I did end up giving part of her euology.)

But about 4 weeks before her death, a teacher at the school where I am working, Eri and Jon's old school, said that she had a dream that I was mad at ERi and everyone was from schooll was at my home and that I made Eri stay in a closet. Closet like in your dream Tyler's Mom. I wonder if closet is 'casket-like'. I felt strange from her dream that evening, as I had had my four dreams about Eri in April and May, this teacher's dream was in late May. Eri 's accident was July 8, died the 14th.

Today marks 27 years ago that I moved with Michael and Jonathan (2.5 yrs) into our home two blocks from this school. I was 8 months pregnant with Eri-girl. I felt so settled t move into a house in a nieghborhood I loved/and love still.

Time, so odd to me still. How could that be 27 years ago?

[mysonrich]

Hi Indigo’s, a lot happening lately. Here, on my side of the screen; my sil is not doing well with the breast cancer and chemo treatments. She has started another round and they have found spots on her lungs. I plan a trip to FL first week of April for a quick visit. Sarah's 25^th birthday is also that week, and Erica's :-). I think of my boy and that he would have been 23 this year.

My dad is still in a rehap facility. If there is to be a change it must come form him. The act of getting up and dressed and moving would help on his first step on the way home but, my dad, you do not know.

My nephew, Chris, is ok. He lives in Japan,stayed after his tour of duty with the USM's came to a close. He said he had rain and wind but they are south of the destruction.

I was watching a news video last week. A young man in our state won his forth state title in wrestling. I watch as her lifted his coach and swung him around and proceeded to run up the stairs, up the stands, to his mom. He just hugged and hugged her. The tears ran down my cheeks in a river. One of my memories of Rich was the day he hopped off a train, crossed 4 lanes of cars stopped at a red-light and we just hugged and hugged. He was a good hugger.

I am reading, I am here. I wish I had more to offer you all but as I said, you are not alone. We are here.

I didn't write this poem . I can hear the cheers and shouts even now.

A Parable of Immortality

I am standing upon the seashore.

A ship at my side spreads her white sails to the morning breeze

and starts for the blue ocean.

She is an object of beauty and strength,

and I stand and watch until at last she hangs

like a speck of white cloud

just where the sea and sky come down to mingle with each other.

Then someone at my side says,

" There she goes! "

Gone where?

Gone from my sight . . . that is all.

She is just as large in mast and hull and spar

as she was when she left my side

and just as able to bear her load of living freight

to the place of destination.

Her diminished size is in me, not in her.

And just at the moment

when someone at my side says,

" There she goes! "

there are other eyes watching her coming . . .

and other voices ready to take up the glad shout . . .

" Here she comes! "

~Henry Van Dyke

[Guest msnher]

Prayers for your sister in law and father, Betsy. I wasn't going to share this, but after reading the poem you posted I changed my mind. I worry so about the label of "kook", but most of you already know me, so here goes...

Diane - a few days ago I felt very strongly that your Nathan couldn't get closer to you if he possessed your body. He will stay close to you. Your pain is preventing you from seeing the many signs he's sending, but he is sending them. Don't try to lessen your pain in order to "see" him for that is impossible. And, don't take on guilt because it is you blocking him. Your human self must grieve. It is law. Nathan knows this and is helping you and the rest of your family. I also keep getting the feeling that he didn't mean to die. Kind of an "Oops!" type of experience. I don't know if that comes from him changing his mind at the last minute or if he wasn't attempting suicide at all. However, he is not sad. He is sad for all the sadness his loved ones are experiencing, but he, himself, is quite joyful. Did he find humor in a lot of things on this side of life? I feel him laughing a lot of the other side of life. Not laughing AT anyone...but, his soul is joyful.

Rhonda - The other thing is a very serious impression that Westley does not want you to rescue/enable his friend in jail. It is imperative that his friend suffer the full consequences of his actions to help him (the friend) in the future. On this side of life Westley may have very well rescued his friend. But, he resides on that side of life where wisdom prevails. If that doesn't coincide with what's in your heart, then do what's in your heart.

The last thing is this very morning, as I was getting my grandchildren's baths ready, I heard these words, in a male voice...very gentle, very kind, very firm...."You all believed in the spiritual/non physical without question before your children died. Your lives now touch the non-physical intimately and instead of feeling validated you choose not to believe when you should believe even deeper." I then heard Stephanie's giggle and saying "I'm with her more now than I ever was before and she knows it but she acts like it's not true." You would have to know Stephanie and how much she teased me to know why she would be giggling then.

Just like the sails of the ship that we cannot see.....our children still exist. They are very much alive.

Okay, time to take my kooky self to the shower.

Love you all!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[shorty16]

Hello Indigos

Sus - You are not kookie. You are awesome. Providing your insite to all of us - Thanks so much.

Amy - I really do not know what to say about the up-coming wedding. Such short notice!! My heart goes out to your husband. Seems like she has her mind made up, and she wants money on top of it. YEAH. I pray that you and your husband find strength to deal with this in a manner that makes all shine. Good luck

Betsy - So sorry about SIL. I have first-hand experience with breast cancer - my mother and my aunt - both. Love to you my friend as you walk this difficult path. Know we and our angels are all with you.

Diane and Tylers Mom - I am sending love your way. This is a journey of all journeys. A life non of us want, but that we have to deal with anyway. We are here for you.

OK Indigos, I am trying to quit smoking and it sucks - Day 3. I started smoking on 6-19-2008, after quiting for 9 years. I started smoking again, because I did not care about myself, almost a self-punishment thing. I was a failure as a parent - inable to keep my child alive. But since 6-19-2008, I have learned alot. I have learned that guilt is ugly and will keep me in the pit of dispair if I let it. I will not let it.

I need to do this for myself. I can do this. Wish me luck Indigos.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[dwsmithrn]

sus...yes, nathan was a very humorous person...everyone loved being around him...life of the party kind of guy...he could make anyone laugh out loud. always had the fun facts of the day kind of thing going on. always had a smile no matter what. i just can't get over what was on his mind that last moment of his life and why he thought ending his life was so important on that day. no one thought that nathan, of all people, would have done something like that...we thought he had it all together, even though he had moments of some depression, off and on, nothing like that ever crossed our minds. he was really good at covering up what he didn't want anyone to know. that is one reason i feel so guilty...i, of all people, his mother, should have known there was something wrong. the guilt is eating away at me....not to mention the sadness. i can't feel him, i can't. i hope he is laughing. my dad, was also a laugh out loud person, and i hope he is him, and they are both laughing out loud, together.

colleen...keep working on it...you can do it....just say NO.....

diane

[Crystal16]

You can do it Colleen as stated don't let dispair and guilt hold you hostage.

Sus- I so wish Ashlee would reveal to you how she's doing and maybe bring hope to my loliness.

I found out today we won our wongful death suit. I'm angry that my daughters life was shortened by pure stupidity!!!! The insurance company agrees with the laws suit it took less than two weeks to award us a monetary amount. It breaks my heart all the money in the world will never bring my daughter back. I would rather be poor, sleep on a cardboard box and eat of a trash can if i could hold her one more time.

[shorty16]

Diane

You just wrote what I thought (and still think) - Of all the people in the world, it is us, his Mother, that should have been able to save them. Both our boys took their oen lives in their hands. Brian decided to get on the hood of a car and his "friend" drove 68mph in a 25mph residencial area. Lost control and took out 3 trees. The car stopped dead at 45 mph. Can you imagine hitting a brick wall at 45 mph and surviving? 2 of the 3 boys survived. We were the losers in this.

I am right there with you

Colleen

[mikesmomrs]

Hello all...jst jumping on quickly to let u know that I did get home from hosp...doing ok today tho wicked tired...yesterday I slept mostly. Am doing doctor spots today. And alert tired...nasty weather Outside. Prolly will sleep she we fget home. Will post more later. Love u all..carol. mikesmomrs

[westleysmom]

Susannah-We struggled mightily when this all first started, we didn't do anything to rescue/enable, I don't think. His other friends/family bailed him out, which we thought was a bad idea, just additional expense and thought he was going to end up having to serve his time anyway, which turned out to be right. I have done some things to help him that I don't think fall into the enabling column. I have helped him file his tax returns to get the refund that he is entitled to get and needs desperately. I visited him in jail, which I am glad I did since no one else showed up. He told me that he didn't have decent personal hygiene stuff that he could buy at the commissary, so I put a small amount of money in his account for that. I know he is not Westley, and I know I'm not Westley. I don't think Westley would want me to do any more for his friend than I would do for him if he were here and in the same kind of trouble, and I'm trying to keep that in mind as we go forward. He has a long row to hoe, and he planted it all himself. We reap what we sow most of the time.

Crystal-I know what you mean about living in a cardboard box and eating scraps. I would give all that I have or ever will if he were still here.

Colleen and Diane-They say that mother's love is one of the strongest forces in the world, but mother's guilt has to be a close second. All our love and guidance didn't save them, and all our guilt won't bring them back. I'm right there with you though, blaming myself when I run out of other options. I hope someday to overcome the feeling that I let him down, let everybody down when he died. He has to know that I would have gladly been the one to die if I had been given the choice. The choice was not ours to make and yet we blame ourselves for it.

Carol-Sweet dreams to you and restful sleep. So glad you are on the mend.

Betsy-thanks for the poem. Those boy/almost man hugs are beautiful memories, aren't they? I have them too. I'm glad your nephew is okay and hope your Dad and SIL get better soon.

[Guest msnher]

Rhonda - I didn't mean to make it seem that what you had already done for Westley's friend was wrong. The "message" is just sent to alleviate any guilt you might have about not doing more. I feel like Westley doesn't want you to carry a burden just because he might have carried the same burden while he was on this side of life. He seems very focused concerning this friend. All with love.

Crystal - The feeling that I received from Ashlee the first time, "This is all my fault." was very strong. However, the picture I got in my head concerning the shooting was nothing like what really happened, so I discounted the message from her. She saw the pain everyone was (is) all her doing. If she hadn't died no body would be sad. That type of thing. However, she is also surrounded by older, wiser souls who are explaining the way of things to her. And, she is relaxing into the process her death has to take in others lives. She would never intentionally hurt anyone. "Lose the guilt over the money, Mom!" She wants you to have fun with it.

[charsng1234]

Made it 2 hrs at work today,, I hate this feeling in my stomach, I miss shane so much I see his friends the ones that were with him that night alive and well.. I keep thinking why him?? How am I supposed to pick up the pieces of ny broken heart??I dont want to do this anymore.. I am not this strong..

[ericasmom]

Betsy, thanks for remembering Eri's birthday, how nice that your Girl is also that week. Eri would be 27 and I just can't help but wonder...

I love that poem you posted, have seen it before and always cry from it. I do believe that our Kids our loved ones are there, in another place sharing beauty and joy, I just always have and do feel that that is real. Sorry that your Dad is ill and that your sis in law is dealing with the ravages of cancer. Blessings. Glad that your nephew is safe after so devastating an event.

Carol, so glad you got home and now it is simply rest and rest and rest until your strength is back. prayers.

Rhonda, life is so hard and so confusing right now, but going last night was a clear task to perform and I am so glad that you did. Westley would have you do that and you went and the boy feels cared for. I am glad that you take in all of the implications of giving him money, that you are pragmatic, and I do think that this stint in jail is waking him up to the choices he has now. It is his time to make better choices.

Crystal, the money seems like a dirty pay off I know, we had a small settlement after 4 years of wrangling with lawyers, but I also believe that there is a use for any money that we come across and so we used it to do some upgrading. I did not feel guilty for that as I know ERZ would have me do what was best for our lives at that time. Had I the choice? Hands down, no money adn holding my Girl again of course. She lives though, just beyond this realm.

Diane, I do think that you will see or hear or feel some signs of Nathan when your body and mind are able to find a bit of quiet. I don't think your Boy would be holding back, it is more we receive when we are best able to take in the briefness of these messages. One day. Glad you are home.

[Guest msnher]

The Westboro Baptist church plans on picketing the funerals of the seven children killed in the fire in PA. There is nothing good about those people. Nothing.

[ericasmom]

Home instead of gym, feeling very poorly, bad throat and very achey, going to take a nap now. Hope I don't have strep, but it is rampant around here, it could also be this horrendous cold going around, sinus ickiness. Gotta get well, hate being down.

Sus, why would they attend and protest a funeral like this? Wasn't this an Amish family, how much could you find at fault with the Amish, with any child...sickness.

[Guest msnher]

Dee - I ask that same question about every funeral they protest. I suppose they're just flaunting their win in the supreme court. I regret posting my letter from God, now. Love smudge!

Westboro Baptists to protest Clouse children funerals

[Guest msnher]

Oh Dee I hope you get to feeling better!

[westleysmom]

Dee-I second that. Hope you feel better soon.

Susannah-Shame on the Westboro church exploiting this tragedy too. Keep me posted if you hear anything else from my boy. Thanks for keeping me honest to myself.

Sharon-two hours can seem so long. I hope you get rest this weekend and feel ready for Monday by then.

Colleen-Good job on the quitting smoking. Forgot to tell you that before.

[Guest msnher]

Sharon - Baby steps, Dear Mother of Shawn! Baby steps. Two hours at work is huge. You are this strong. And we are here to help hold you up. Rest. Sleep. Cry. Do what you can when you can with what you have. No more. You will make it...against all inside of you that doesn't want to. Have you heard any more from Shawn? I remember the dream he sent you about "waking up". Every near death experience I've read said dying is like that...waking up. I hope that to be true.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[daveydow1]

Rhonda-----Thank you so much for your kind words.You said West sometimes didn't tell you things

because he didn't want to upset you. I suspect that may also be the reason Davey didn't confide in me

at times. He was sensitive as a child.......and when I cried, he would try to cheer me up.....I remember it

so well. I, too, know what you mean about West's smoking. Dave also smoked, and was always trying

to quit. Was doing fairly well when he was killed.

Amy----Yep----we got about 5 inches of snow. We live SE of Cleveland, so when they get bad weather,

we also get it. Sorry about the hard feelings regarding Nikki's wedding and all.

Chrystal.....Tylersmom.....You said that in your dreams, Tyler didn't say anything to you, but was there.

That's also the type of dream I had of Dave. He never said anything in all the dreams I have had in

these nearly 8 yrs. since he died. I have not had very many dreams in all this time

..However,.....he always looked calm and healthy to me. I guess that he was letting me know that he was ok.

I have not had a dream of him in a long time. I pray that your dreams of Tyler will continue to come, and

that they won't be upsetting. It is so very difficult to figure out what dreams mean.

Betsy-----Thanks for the nice poem. Your story of Rich getting off the train and running to you, and

giving you lots of great hugs shows that he was a very loving son. Prayers for your sister-in-law.

Colleen-----Good luck with the quitting smoking.

Dee-----We got 5 inches of heavy wet snow. Your dreams preceeding ERi's death are indeed very

haunting and scary. I'm sorry you had that happen to you. Worked on my quilt a bit yesterday. It's

coming along s-l-o-w but sure. Lots of birds at the feeders again, due to snow covering.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[dwsmithrn]

today is friday, 7 weeks today...an hour after i heard the news....i had a bad day...a super dooper crying day....i also yelled at nathan today....i doubt he heard me, but i yelled none the less. then i took it back. made me feel bad for yelling at him, but he made me so sad for leaving me like he did. i bought a book about grief and one about suicide, and both say the same things about how we grieve and what steps we take....and how we go back and forth between all the steps....the books say they last at least 2 years, before the transition takes place...which means only that we re-learn how to go about our lives, but we are never the same person again and other people will have to learn how to adapt to the 'new' person....does this make sense to any of you? i read lots of things in these books, all the while crying and wondering about nathan...he should have read these books before he decided to leave me. i know he wasn't really 'nathan' and he really didn't 'decide' to leave. i know there was some underlying problem, or as much as i hate to admit it, but maybe a mental illness we weren't really aware of....that makes me sob my lungs out to even think it, but there is no other explanation for nathan's action....he was so strong always directing others in the right path of life....especially his younger brother....even got him to go to police academy and become a police officer, his life's dream...and he is a very good officer. always offering assistance and giving young people advice and warnings, rather than being that mean, tough type of cop....but, nathan, never let on that things were bothering him, never to this point. so, this is a friday, for the rest of my life.....i have a bad headache, and the muscles in my neck, shoulders, back ache and hurt so much i can't even move my left arm.....are you all sick of listening to my complaining yet? it has been 7 whole weeks of nothing but complaining and i don't feel any better yet....i know 7 weeks isn't nearly enough time, but i don't feel like i will ever get anywhere. ever. ever.

thanks for listening....diane

[Guest msnher]

Diane - Heaven's no we aren't sick of hearing you complain! We have all been there and still go there from time to time. It is good for you to "get it out". I write a lot and that helped when Steph first died. I wrote to her. In one letter I yelled at her and told her how angry I was at her. The very next letter, about 5 seconds after the angry one, is me telling her how much I love her. Get it out, Diane.

[lolynbo]

had a great short VISIT WITH LYNN AND RANDY....SHOWED THEM AROUND ARDMORE (THAT DIDNT TAKE LONG) SHOWED THEM KOURTNEYS KLOSET, THE CEMETERY, MY HOUSE - WITH MY CRITTERS, WENT TO EAT MET MONTY AND BRROKE AND KODY THERE...FELT I HAD KNOW THEM FOREVER....HOPE I DIDNT BORE THEM TO DEATH...TOOK A FEW PICS..

[hotrod]

Good Evening Indigos

My so much to comment on and so little time

Lorrie Loved the pictures of You and Lynn I am sure it felt as if your knew each other for a lift time Thanks for posting them

Betsy So very sorry to hear about your SIL and Dad. The poem was beautiful and I do understand about the Great Hugs Stephen's hugs were oh so special I know that Rich loved you so very much

Dee I hope you take care of yourself and rest and too understand your son's Jon pain and wept with you You are a great mom

Colleen I smoked 3 packs of cigs. a day for 30 years. I had HUGE HEALTH SCARE AND NEEDED TO STOP. My Doctor prescribed Chantrix and stopped within a month It was easy and I had no cravings I have not even wanted to smoke now in nearly 2 years Good luck

Rhonda I understand helping Westley's friend It was a great memory to know that you permitted him to smoke in the house because it was cold out How thoughtful I too look at the door longingly

Crystal I am glad you did receive the settlement and know it is meaningless with our precious daughter.

Sherry You touched my heat with your talking about Davey and Lisa I know Davey knew he was loved and loved you both in return How sweet that you say goodnight to each every evening I do that with Stephen as well.

Sus Thanks for your honesty and insights

Carol great to see Mikes' face and Marcia I certainly have missed beautiful Betthany

Diane, Sharen, Karen, Crystal Keep posting and connecting it does hel[

Good night indigos

[aim630]

Lorri-Loved the pictures of you & Lynn & Randy. Glad you got to meet & spend some time together.

Susannah-What you said is so true (the voice of God). I had no problem at all believing my dad was in heaven and in a better place along with my grandparents. I began to doubt it when Ashley died, at the time I most needed to believe. The people protesting at those children's funerals are monsters. They spoke about that court case in one of the classes Katie attended (media law). If they are so against gay rights, let them protest outside a gay bar. Not that I think that is right either, but to protest at some poor babies' & soldiers funerals is just a way of getting attention, and has nothing to do with gay rights. It makes me so angry! Also, I don't think you are a kook at all. I just think some people are more in tune with "the other side". If you ever get any messages from Ashley, feel free to let me know, good or bad!

Colleen-Good luck with quitting smoking. I've never smoked, but I am battling this weight problem. I think it is because right now I really don't care about myself either. Both are really unhealthy and both are hard habits to break. I know I can do it also, I just have to set my mind to it.

Sherry-We probably got about 5 inches of snow also. The roads were bad this morning, and school got cancelled (we never get a work snow day!) but the roads are clear now. I am so ready for spring...

Diane-7 weeks is so early in this journey. I am glad you made it home. I hope the books you bought help you to know that the feelings are normal, although I know it won't take any of the pain away. We don't feel you are complaining, you are just sharing your feelings. We have all been there. I hope Susannah's words help ease your pain a little bit about Nathan.

I spoke to Jeff's oldest daughter, and let her know how hurt her dad was. (she is the one who got married 2 yrs ago). She said her stepdad was upset when she chose to have Jeff walk her down the aisle. She (Chris) thought about having both of them do it, but her mother said it wouldn't be right. I guess Nikki thought the same thing, and basically her mother told her that since Chris didn't do it, she shouldn't either. I don't know. He's just so depressed, he's been laying in bed not wanting to get up. After him telling me I was wallowing last week, I want to tell him he is doing the same thing. Oh well, we'll get through next weekend. Hell, if we've made it through the past year, we can make it through that.

I have had a couple more dreams about Ashley lately. In one, my father-in-law was driving Katie & I in a convertible, and he was driving like a maniac around curves. I felt like Katie was going to fly out of the car, so I was trying to hold her in. He slammed on the brakes, and Katie & I were fine, but then I noticed Ashley was in the car, and it went flying away without us, and she was still in it, waving sadly goodbye to us. Last night, I dreamed she was still a baby again. I think both of these were just dreams because of my guilt. It is not the same as the time I actually felt she was there visiting me.

Well this was long. I need to take my mom & her boyfriend to the airport tomorrow. They are flying to Arizona, and I get to take care of their 6 dogs while they are gone. The boyfriend's dog won't let us touch him when they are not around. Should be fun.

Take care everyone (welcome home Carol-take it easy)

Amy/Ashley's mom

[mysonrich]

As my aunt say's, I took a nerve pill. A small dose. My brother called. His wife, Laura, was sent home from the hospital today, after a check-up,with oxygen and an Rx for morphine. Her BP is very low. My brother was very upset of course. Crying I think. Some of you may remember that his son Pat died at the age of 13 from liver cancer. The Dr's at the time never checked for that cancer because it is a “type” that old people get. Pat has been gone 12 years now. L auras birthday is Sunday. She is hoping to have more time with her grandchildren,the reason they moved to Fl. There's nothing I can do.

[dlj0403]

I know I've been gone for a few weeks. I've been dealing with getting off anti-depressants and accepting the way my life is now without Jenna. It will be 30 months tomorrow that she left me. I'm going to the cemetery to sit with her and take her pink flowers down. I'm not feeling numb anymore and things are starting to be more real to me. I don't know if that is good or bad. I have been dealing with "is there a heaven" thought lately. Everyone keeps telling me that Jenna is in a better place. I don't know how they can say that. Just really confused and mad at God....just don't understand why...

[Guest msnher]

Amy - Six dogs!? Prayers! Definitely. I promise if I ever hear from Ashley I'll let you know first thing. I think I'm their last resort. They will do everything in their power to connect with you without outside help first. And, if they've been able to connect with you and know you received their message they are free to move on about the business at hand, knowing they are only a thought away. Although I felt Stephanie and heard her the day after her death, I chose to ignore her...so she sent a wild bird to land on my shoulder...around midnight...under the redneck patio while I held a cigarette...and then the hummingbird and then the two owls and then Jasmine drawing the "bird on the pole". All a long story, but all tangible signs, in front of others from my daughter who said she would send birds when she died. I said I would send butterflies. Who knew she would die before me? Certainly not me! But, still, the dream she gave me of her descending into heaven brings the most comfort. (LIttle chuckle) Sometimes she tries to talk to me and I tell her "I can't talk right now I'm too sad that you're dead." I can just see her roll her eyes and bust out laughing.

[ericasmom]

Good night all, I am tired, this little bug is tiring. I am wishing you all some sort of sleep that refreshes you, and wishing tha tfor me too. Lor and Lynne, cool that you spent time together, I love the photos, sisters united first by tragedy, then by love and respect.

Betty, 3 packs a day is a big habit to lose, good for you Sweetie. I sure wish my hubby could find it in himself to do so. Not going to happen. Col, keep trying to stay away from cigs, rooting for you.

Sharon, no other pain like it Dear. We are holding you.

Diane, the missing of one so dear is going to require time to find out how to live again. It sure does not come easily, for anyone.

Jenn, hope the meds work for you and that somehow, your next steps allow you to feel the sunlight and hear the birds.

Amy, I think that you are right, getting through the last year is nearly impossible to believe, so you guys can do this. I do however, understand how sad Jeff must be. Sounds like the dream does have to do with the loss of control we parents all experienced with our child leaving, I have had many like that.

Sherry, what patteren is your quilt. Maybe you can stitch a bird or two. Went walking this morn and heard many woodpeckers with their kind of squeaky tool sound. Robins all over the lawns, so beautiful thier song, my absolute favorite sound.

Betsy, such sadness for your family, I will say prayers for your Brother and his Wife and you as you all brace for this sad time.

[mikesmomrs]

Well, I came home and went to sleep...for a pretty long while, then I reread my post from earlier today....you all must think I am on some pretty strong drugs..."Am doing doctor spots today. And alert tired...nasty weather Outside. Prolly will sleep she we fget home. Will post more later. Love u all..carol. mikesmomrs" Even I myself can't translate that part, except for the "doctor spots" was supposed to be "drs appts." That's what I get for trying to be quick...I was at one of those "appts" and didn't have much time...used hubby's Droid X and it has the nasty habit of "replacing" words with what it thinks you meant...can't even imagine what I typed that the Droid thought I meant "and alert tired"...not to mention the "she we fget home." Dang...

Anyway, sorry for the mess...I was just trying to check in and didn't have much time.

I am so sorry for those who are having such difficult times right now...Sharon, (yes, I agree, 2 hours at work was a huge accomplishment, good for you), Diane (it's not really "complaining" it's grieving, sweetie...allow it, we all understand), Tylersmom, all of those experiencing these first days, weeks and months of a pain we never could have imagined...it is a tough road to walk, but we all walk it together...hold on, hold on.

Amy---so sorry about the wedding problems...hopefully it will turn out okay for everyone. I personally think the two of them walking her down the aisle sounds good, but only if she has been close to her stepdad and her dad. and the six dogs...well...no way at all for me. You are a good person to step in.

Sus: Your insights are always welcome, and the sharing of your "visits," too! You wrote "Just like the sails of the ship that we cannot see.....our children still exist. They are very much alive." I have to believe this...it is the only thing that keeps my heart beating at times.

Betsy: So sorry to hear about your SIL..prayers for the family that they may find peaceful days to spend time together and comfort one another. Love the story of Rich running to you from the train...a memory to wrap around your heart, for sure. The poem you posted is the one my friend, Rita, had imprinted on her "funeral card" when she passed away...I had never heard it before, and of course, it had a double meaning for me...my friend, and Mike.

Colleen: good luck with the quitting smoking...and good for you for making the effort.

Jenna's mom: as for Jenna "being in a better place," I have a very strong faith and truly believe Mike is enjoying his eternal life, but that doesn't make me feel that he is in a "better place..." His "place" was here, with his family...but, that wasn't the script. Holding you close...

Dee: So sorry you've been attacked with the "bug," take care of yourself this weekend...

Lorri: Love that you and Lynn and Randy got to visit and spend time...all of us who went to MN know about the "instant feeling of having known someone forever."

Rhonda: I am glad you went to visit Westley's friend, and think that your decisions about how much of your help you will extend are right on. I am sure your visit went a long way to comforting him and perhaps giving him strength to start on this long journey of turning his life around.

Betty: thank you for your good wishes...I am glad that you are still able to spend a day with your sister...I am sure she truly looks forward to it.

I know I've not addressed many of the posts, but must go and lie down again...I swear, I feel as though I've climbed 300 stairs sometimes. The doctor started me on coumadin and an anti-arrhythmia med...I think they are fighting their way through my body. I truly feel as though I've stumbled into another life, one that I don't like any more than the last "new life" I was thrown into....

take care all...sending love and wishes for peace-filled memories to surround your aching hearts. Thank you, all, for your good wishes and support while I was out of the mix. and, thank you TRUDI, for your keeping everyone posted...you are so sweet and such a good friend---I am blessed.

Sherry: I too love that you say goodnight to Lisa and Davey every night...

BTW, while I was in the hospital, we had a lot of rain and quite a bit of the snow melted in our front yard...though the snow is still piled pretty high right next to the house, except for a small area, right next to the front door, where the snow had completely melted away, once again showing the heart rock we found in the yard of our old house, and brought here with us. A true welcome home.

and this is a picture of the fabric of the smock that my nurse was wearing, the first day I was in the hospital...

[mysonrich]

Carol, I understood ever word you wrote. Doctor spots, you have a spot at the doctor's office. Easy.

Lorri, very nice that you,Lynn and Randy were able to visit. I was able to view the pictures. Sometimes when I click on them here,they are giant! I was able to download and view in another program.

Betty, my daughter had a job interview in Brooklyn last week. I was assuming she would commute. Dah. She also attended the Hoboken ST. Patty’s parade. NY is not far away but I was rather surprised to hear she was considering a move. How is the cell phone working out for you? Its nice to read of you visits with your sister.

Diane, you are not complaining and I am not sick of you. (((hugs)))

Susannah, I read the article re: Westboro. If I had time I would drive out to shield the family from this group, aka nut jobs. Just a example of their thoughts, “ The release is full of bluster over their Supreme Court victory and claims the fire was a result of God's wrath for Pennsylvania “ OOOOk.

Dee, take care. Its appears that you are catching every illness coming down the pike this year. More tea Dee. More tea is needed !

Rhonda, at our sons ages I can;'t say that they were " men". Just out of the teens and at an age where they ,or Rich, was still a boy, grown boy,to me. Always the grown boy hugs.

Sharon, if you can afford to stay home,maybe you should. If your employer offers a disability insurance,apply for it. Does your state offer this?If not, I read somewhere of a person that applied for temp social security disability insurance. I don't know how many hoops you have to jump through for that but,maybe someone can help. My health insurance at the time of Rich's death was also my employers disability insurance carrier. Talk about people from hell. The good of that experience, my employer was also sick of their games and paid me. The HR person said I may have to pay back the company,after all, I wasn't working,used all sick and vacation time. So, if down the road I get a “repayment of over payment”, I'll deal with that. Try to find resources that can help. I know its hard but people really do want to help.

Feeling better after a good nights sleep. I haven't taken a nerve pill in a year so I guess a good nights sleep was needed. My Aunt, her son and wife, a surprise 30^th anniversary party is planned for today. I have decided not to go. Many reasons.

Tomorrow I am going to the Philadelphia Flower Show with a friend from work. I;ll try to get my camera together for some pictures.

[nicksdad]

[shorty16]

Indigos

Well, I have failed miserably at quitting smoking. WOW, sucks.

I will try again later.

Not much to add. Having a tough couple of days. 2.5 years and I still feel like this - Hope it does not last long.

Love to my friends who know how I feel

Brian - I cannot even say the words on how I feel - I miss you more than anything. I love you, my son

Colleen

[hotrod]

Hi Indigos

Dear Sweet Betsy Enjoy the Flower show i am looking forward to your pictures. My Cell phone is working out fine and even purchased one for sister Now Ineed to teach her to use it

If your duaghter takes the job in NY then maybe we can connect I know that was a surprise for you I bet she enjoyed the Parade.

Carol I write many messages like tht and then wonder how in heavens name did I even typoe that. Glad to see you and the pictuers of your Hearts warms my heart.

Dee Rest for the weekend and feel better

Colleen quitting is so very hard I hear you about not being able to express your loss of your sweet Brian I feel the same about my treasure Stephen

Remembering JOhnny and saying his name Loud and Proud

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny

Thinking of each of you today

[shorty16]

Diane

Brian died in June - Summer. I used to stand in the back yard and scream at Brian. i was so mad at him for doing such a stupid thing. Not only is Brian dead, but one of his best friends is a convicted felon. I am still really mad at that, but I know I must let go of the anger. As soon as I figure out how to, I will let you know.

I cannot ever think of talking to the driver or the other passenger. I cannot control myself. I need to though - and I need to for me - not them.

Diane, It is OK if we yell at our kids. Their actions put us in this hell. Neither of us saw it coming - I knew Brian was reckless, but to ride on the hood of car going 68mph? Never entered my mind.

Hang in there - I am right there with you

Colleen

[Guest msnher]

Carol - Yep...strong drugs...that's what I thought. No worries. The part I wrote about the ships that sail was from the poem Betsy posted. Get lots of rest, Friend. Please don't push yourself.

Colleen - Did I know you smoked? It's not like you have to clear it with me but after all our visits I would think that is something I would know. Now that I mention it, I think I did. I don't know. Immediately after Steph died I smoked more than a pack a day. Now I'm down to one to three a day. I traded smoking for eating. Neither are healthy. We ebb and flow don't we dear friend, when it comes to this ride of grief. You've had several good (or better) days. To have a rough day is expected, I would think. I certainly don't know if I would be able to speak with the driver of the car. I would have my hands around his throat and through my gritted teeth screaming, "I forgive you!"

Betsy - The Westboro church. They are a good example of the power of negative energy. As a general rule I don't discuss the negative entities "out there" because they like to be talked about and even the mere mention of them perks their ears. However, I have to give "them" kuddos for what they've been able to accomplish with the Westboro church. They took a group of people, proclaiming to serve God. They have those people portray God as mean, angry and vengeful. That small group of people by themselves would not feed "their" energy enough to produce the power needed. Nope. It's not that group that has done it. It's the anger and wrath that group of people ignite in all of us that feeds the negative energy. "The dark side"...Luke Skywalker. The collective anger that group of people has produced from the rest of humanity is providing untold power to darker energy. I, too, wish I was close enough to stand and help protect that family against them. We can stand in spirit against them. The way to stand against them is to pray for peace and love for the family. I am too easily angered. My wish that God would strike them down is exactly the kind of God they worship. I don't know that God. Oh. Well. That was alot of rambling. Not directed AT you, Becky...just to you. Thanks for the shoulder.

Dee - Rest dear friend!

Prayers for Johnny and his family!

Much love,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[mysonrich]

[mysonrich]

Susannah, this say's it all for me.

In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."-- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor.

Perhaps a direct link to the newspaper article wasn't the best way to “ignore” the group nor lessen any negative energy that flows forth from learning yet again that this is a hate group directing lunacy at a family that now has 7 dead children. Not directed at anyone,just my thoughts.

[crystalann]

Well it seams like I wake up to this messed up reality I wake up ok then it sinks in Tyler is gone and I only have three children left The hurt in the mornings is killing me.Now I get to look down the street and see the family that kid stayed with 3 doors down The dad of this family is supposed to bw the leader of this so called gang he is an ex felon and they got him with drugs and guns with the numbers filed off yet he is out living. I hate being this close to these people.Some days this pit kust swallows me up. Smoking if anyone has ideas on how to quit let me know My quit date was 1/4/11 .Tyler was so proud I was gonna try to quit again. Now I am smoking way more than ever! I feel bad every time I light one but cannt seem to stop. I hope you all have the best day you can!

[ericasmom]

hi Gang,

Just trying out the day, feeling kind of odd, tired-ish but slept a lot. Carol, I too knew what you were trying to say with the spots, was a bit unsure with some of the last part of your message but chalked that up to being in a hurry as we all often are. I also figured you were struggling with feeling better. I am sorry that you are in this new world of medicines and finding the right levels. And so I pray that the meds get figured out real fast, and that your body adjusts to them with more ease. Love the rock.

Betsy, you are right, this has been a catch-every-germ-kind of year for me and I wonder if it has to do with menopause. I can't help but feel less rested, less strength when being heated like a friggin roasting chicken up to 15 times a day some days...I feel that my immune system has taken a beating. I also wonder if I am dealing with a more active anxiety issue than before, which it was already up there, but in the last 8 months, heightened and is that opening me up to a lesser immune system?

Sharon, I wonder too, as Betsy did, if you are able to find out if there is some assistance out there for you in your company or through your insurance people.

And Diane, I echo Carol's words when she said that this is grieving Dear, not complaining. Most of us would probably say that before our Child died, we were pretty loose and able to let the word turn, but the death brings an unrecognizable piece in the mirror, the woman/man who feels every ache, who can't stop crying, who no longer sleeps, who no longer wants to be around others, these are all new to us and not what we want but what we feel. It won't always be this intense, but grieving is what you have before you for this time. Nobody should expect anything different from you at this time, and even you need to see that this heavy awful time is demanding every ounce from you and it hurts and it sucks and one day it will be a bit lighter.