Spirituality

[KayC]

I wanted to start this thread for those wanting to express their spiritual views...those who do not need not enter.  I hope this helps!

[Boggled]

Okay, so I'm "bent on expressing my view."   not that I'm preaching.  hahaha!  

I read a really CONVINCING book!  _Afterlife Revealed_ by Michael Tymn.  It was convincing enough that I have started doing things I haven't done since my husband ... departed this world over 15 months ago now.    I read books.  I've bought a bunch of "grief books" in this past 15 months.  They've had points that helped but none of them brought back my mojo.  This "Revealed" book I THINK is what brought some of it back.  It's a long read, about the afterlife (no kidding) ... about how back in about 1847 (iirc), spirits in the afterworld had grouped together to contact this world, many of them famous people in this world, to help the living to understand and avoid some of the grief we go through.  

After we die, our spirit has to wake up in the next world.  We go through a "life review," where we see what we've done in our lives and judge it impartially.   There are seven levels to the afterlife.  Then we go through a "second death," sometimes very quickly, sometimes very slowly.  We go to one of the seven levels depending on how much light our spirits can tolerate.  And we are greeted by "smiling faces" and there will be "helpers."  The point seems to be to "deeply contemplate."    and I THINK/SUSPECT learn to love?  

How this relates to Christianity.  We humans ALL, of whatever religion or belief, end up in this "afterlife.

I personally (not from the book) remember Jesus' long prayer to God (yes, I have read the Bible, though not straight through) where he asked that (John 17) :  

" ²¹ that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. ²² I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— ²³ I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

²⁴ “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "  

and somewhere Jesus also said something along of the line of:  "I go to prepare a place for you" ... 

really it fits together with this _Afterlife Revealed_ book talks about, that this world of "reality" in which we are living, is a bodily world for us, but we are spirits having a bodily experience, not bodies, not entirely chemical and physical.  

There's a new idea these days far's as I understand, that our minds are not all physical.  (book:  Amazon.com: Irreducible Mind: Toward a Psychology for the 21st Century: 9781442202061: Edward Kelly, Emily Williams Kelly: Books )

So I'm a-gonna quit now.  There's a lot.  To figure out.  But I myself believe that I will meet my precious precious husband again.  

[KayC]

There is no doubt in my mind there is afterlife.  It gives me that hope that I could not live without of seeing George again. I've had two NDE's, plus a dream of one one time, but I've always been a believer, and no I was not raised that way.  I'm not sure where I got it, I remember singing How Great Thou Art in the back yard at the top of my lungs when I was a child.  My parents were Atheists that believed any of us believers were ignoramuses, so that made it challenging, but my mom turned when I was 20 and my dad just two days before he died.  At some point he told me he'd been called to preach, he didn't say why he didn't, maybe because he married my mom, his brother's wife, IDK.

I remember when I was 16 and first read this 

16 minutes ago, Boggled said:

"I go to prepare a place for you" ... 

but it was the next part that really hit me:

"If it were not so, I would of told you."

It meant so much to me that we could count on Him to tell us the TRUTH!  

[Jemiga70]

Been studying this subject the day after my wife passed.

Was raised Catholic.

Unfortunately, in my rejecting the church, I chucked out everything that wasn't material science.

To me, for most of my life, NDEs, deathbed visions, out of body experiences, psychic functioning and mediums were all just either wishful thinking or hogwash. But that all changed when my wife transitioned.

Besides being inundated with signs, especially during that first year, I sat with a medium - my first and only sitting - last March. She knew nothing about me and I made sure of that beforehand.

I booked under a false name, false email and paid with a friend's credit card - he cannot be Googled and traced to me.

The medium did not have my phone number, so even if she was unethical it would've been impossible to Google my number and trace to me.

The reading was via Zoom. My camera was off and my screen name wasn't even a name, but something silly like Toxic Banana.  I did not tell the medium who I wanted to hear from, not beforehand and not at the beginning of the reading.

Finally, the medium was affiliated with Forever Family Foundation, a nonprofit, nondenominational org whose only mission is to help people in grief. I was satisfied the medium was ethical, was the real deal, and that I'd done my due diligence with keeping anonymous.

Well.

She told me things she had no way of knowing, including my wife's name. Calculate the odds of just that.  That's like hitting a grand slam in mediumship. I can only conclude she was either reading my mind to get the info - which would contradict her ethics - OR she was communicating with my wife's spirit. For me there are no other explanations.

@Boggled  Michael Tymn's book is on my reading list.  You might wanna check out the work of Julie Beischel PhD at Windbridge.org and Dr Gary Schwartz at University of Arizona. They have both studied mediums under controlled conditions using watertight protocols.  For more about the spirit realms, you might wanna check out Life In The World Unseen, communicated by Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson, a  former Catholic/Anglican bishop (!!) and channeled by medium Anthony Borgia in the 1940s.  Victor Zammit, a lawyer, presents evidence for the afterlife on his website. His Friday Afterlife Reports usually have something worth contemplating.

[Boggled]

30 minutes ago, Jemiga70 said:

She told me things she had no way of knowing, including my wife's name. Calculate the odds of just that.  That's like hitting a grand slam in mediumship. I can only conclude she was either reading my mind to get the info - which would contradict her ethics - OR she was communicating with my wife's spirit. For me there are no other explanations.

Jemiga70, as soon as I got to this part in your post, I started crying.    I think it's a good kind of crying though.  Thank you!

3 hours ago, Gator M said:

We will be reunited with our loved ones. 

I agree.    

[Boggled]

33 minutes ago, Jemiga70 said:

You might wanna check out the work of Julie Beischel PhD at Windbridge.org and Dr Gary Schwartz at University of Arizona. They have both studied mediums under controlled conditions using watertight protocols.  For more about the spirit realms, you might wanna check out Life In The World Unseen, communicated by Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson, a  former Catholic/Anglican bishop (!!) and channeled by medium Anthony Borgia in the 1940s.  Victor Zammit, a lawyer, presents evidence for the afterlife on his website. His Friday Afterlife Reports usually have something worth contemplating.

oh my, much reading to find!  Thanks for the references ... I'm copying this paragraph to print out so I don't lose it.

[Boggled]

Welp, this author has written a relatively short article published online in "Psychology Today" that probably expresses something of what he wrote about in all his long difficult BOOKS.  (which I sincerely doubt I'll ever read, because they're too darned long and difficult.)

Is Death an Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End | Psychology Today

[Boggled]

And neurosurgeon Eben Alexander, very well known for his Near Death Experience, and his blog, discussing our "minds" and how they are not physical (under 'WHAT IS CONSCIOUSNESS" on here):

Dr. Alexander's Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (ebenalexander.com)

[KayC]

I'm turning 71 in 2 1/2 weeks...the older I get, the closer our reunion day!

[KayC]

So, a neighbor, Mike, took Iris in to visit Iris' best friend, dying of cancer, Sunday.  They prayed with her.  They went back yesterday as it was her birthday, she was unconscious and never recovered consciousness...last night she went.  

[Boggled]

If we take this idea? belief? that we are all spirits having a bodily experience, I'm just opening my "mind" up to the idea PERSONALLY ... 

so.  I'm a SPIRIT.  Somehow over the twenty years we were together, my spirit (which is the real me) intertwined with my husband's spirit (which is the real him).  Just thinking and believing, "I'm a spirit" is mind-blowing in my humble opinion.  It's not the way I thought "before."  I'm a spirit!  There's this extra - other - ongoing "me" that I AM and HAVE BEEN all my life ... again, it's weird.  Not eerie weird, though.  

Not quite the same thing you get through churches either.   

KayC, Iris's friend has passed through the veil, right?   On to "the next world."    One message in that Michael Tymn book I found interesting, when a person is physically dying, food is not helpful, but WATER IS HELPFUL.  Why?  Remember Jesus talked about "ye must be born again of WATER and the spirit."    Just one more interesting thing, maybe a sort of a clue.

[Boggled]

Found the part in the Tymn _Afterlife Revealed_ book where water is mentioned as being helpful (p. 75 in the paperback).  

"Gladys Osborne Leonard explained that it is sometimes difficult for the etheric body to dissociate itself from the physical envelope.  She pointed out that those who lack a spiritual understanding and fear death are more "fixed" in the physical, and thus there is much more of a struggle in the release.

"According to Leonard, drinking plenty of water strengthens the etheric body and enables it to more easily separate itself from the physical body. 

. . . 

"The administration of drugs also hinders an easy transition from the physical to the etheric body, Leonard added, again stressing the need to give the dying person water, even if only a few drops at a time by means of a syringe.  "Water is the one thing that the etheric body can make use of when trying to free itself from the physical at the approach of death of the latter."  "

[Boggled]

Reading on Wikipedia about Emanuel Swedenborg, he was very interesting on a lot of spiritual subjects.  This, for instance, is interesting:

"Swedenborg spoke in virtually all his works against what he regarded as the incomprehensible Trinity of Persons concept. He said that people of other religions opposed Christianity because of its doctrine of a Trinity of Persons. He considered the separation of the Trinity into three separate Persons to have originated with the First Council of Nicaea and the Athanasian Creed. " 

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia

And on marriage!   from the above link:

"One often discussed aspect of Swedenborg's writing is his ideas on marriage. Swedenborg himself remained a bachelor all his life, but that did not hinder him from writing voluminously on the subject. His work on Marriage Love (Conjugial Love^[g] in older translations) (1768) was dedicated to this purpose.^[118]

"A central question with regard to marriage is whether it stops at death or continues into heaven. The question arises due to a statement attributed to Jesus that there is no marriage in heaven (Luke 20:27–38, Matthew 22:23–32, and Mark 12:18–27). Swedenborg wrote The Lord God Jesus Christ on Marriage in Heaven as a detailed analysis of what he meant.^[119]

"The quality of the relationship between husband and wife resumes in the spiritual world in whatever state it was at their death in this world. Thus, a couple in true marriage love remain together in that state in heaven into eternity. A couple lacking in that love by one or both partners, however, will separate after death and each will be given a compatible new partner if they wish. A partner is also given to a person who loved the ideal of marriage but never found a true partner in this world. The exception in both cases is a person who hates chaste marriage and thus cannot receive such a partner.^[120]

"Swedenborg saw creation as a series of pairings, descending from the Divine love and wisdom^[121] that define God and are the basis of creation. This duality can be seen in the pairing of good and truth,^[122] charity and faith,^[123] God and the church,^[124] and husband and wife.^[125] In each case, the goal for these pairs is to achieve conjunction between the two component parts. In the case of marriage, the object is to bring about the joining of the two partners at the spiritual and physical levels, and the happiness that comes as a consequence. "

 

 

[Boggled]

Jemiga70, I agree about some of the articles in Wikipedia being pretty biased.  I remember checking out some author or something and the W. article was all about how "terrible" they were, ... I don't remember which person it was I was checking out though.   ... really, people have been questioning that site for YEARS and YEARS along with the bit about "ya can't believe everything you read ... ... on the internet."  Propaganda happens?  oh my??  

Believe it or not.  If you don't believe it though, there's a nice bridge I'd like to sell ya??

There's even some law or other that allows it to certain agencies ... I'm recalling maybe I'd read that maybe on the "read inside" bit you can read for this book:

JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters: Douglass, James W.: 9781439193884: Amazon.com: Books

anyhoo, I've been reading around on Amazon and there are several books pretty darned convincing about afterlife communcations, not to mention what other people say about mediums talking about personal things they couldn't possibly have known:

The Hereafter Trilogy: The Book That Removes All Doubt: Allen, Miles Edward: 9781511439312: Amazon.com: Books

Love Never Dies: How to Reconnect and Make Peace with the Deceased: Turndorf Dr., Jamie: 9781401945343: Amazon.com: Books

The Realities of Heaven: Fifty Spirits Describe Your Future Home: Allen, Miles Edward: 9781511821896: Amazon.com: Books

and I for one find proofs about death NOT being the END, to be highly consoling.

 

 

[Sar123]

@Gator M Please don’t stop posting. Some of your posts have helped me. I always try to remember how you told me to focus on the positive and I try to do that.
 

I don’t belong to any church and I’m not interested in the Bible. I just skip over posts that quote scripture or become too focused on religion. It doesn’t offend me when people bring up their religious beliefs. I simply don’t read it. 

[Jemiga70]

@Boggled  I have read Love Never Dies by Dr Turndorf.  Indeed, I find that is the ONLY thing that consoles me, the mountains of evidence that suggest an afterlife.  That  doesnt take away the grief but it does relieve a significant part of the pain.

[Boggled]

Another thing that seems to have helped ... after reading Mr. Tymn's _Afterlife Revealed_, it struck me that my husband's spirit may not have realized that he died!  so I sat down on my side of our back porch swing, and looked at and talked to "his" side of the swing (we always sat together on that swing!), and simply and bare words told him, "You died."  and then told him how it happened from my side, the whole hospital experience.   Since that day ... some of my worst PAIN has let up!         (!!!)     

 

[KayC]

I, too, feel I cannot separate myself from my Christianity.  However, that said, I do not feel we need to hit others over the head with our Bible!  I don't believe that is the way.  PLEASE, SOME TOLERANCE AND RESPECT FOR OTHERS!  This is not to escalate into a shouting match or who's right, who's wrong.  

Back to why we are all here:  Grief.  Let's not chase others away from getting the help they need for their grief by forcing our beliefs on them.

My closest friend is "spiritual" but not what I would call "Christian" by my or my church' standards...but I might remind you, I'm not called to judge, that is up to God.  I am to love her, be there for her, as I have been to the best of my ability the last few years as she goes through her cancer journey.  Last night I was over there and pointed her to a site that is low cost and does awesome memorial stones, and she ordered three, one for their kids for their dad, one for her for him, one for her best friend who just died.  It was so neat seeing her pleasure and low cost at that!  I have one for George, have had it for 16 years and it shows no signs of wear.  I cook for her periodically, I let her dog out of her kennel when she is gone, I clean her kitchen and do her dishes.  I found someone who could help her with her mice at a fraction of the cost, and she already knew him!  She is so happy about that.  She asked me to take her to Easter brunch at my church and wants to go to a wedding reception there Saturday.  

Our Christianity needn't be silent in our lives...but is best demonstrated by our demeanor and actions, and if someone wants to know they can ask us.  Until then, keep peace and show respect, even to the moderators and administrators, whether you agree with them or not.  What are the options?  None.  

[Boggled]

I'm thinking about "entangled particles," as mentioned in the Lanza article above:

"And how can pairs of entangled particles be instantaneously connected on opposite sides of the galaxy as if space and time don't exist? Again, the answer is simple: because they're not just ‘out there'—space and time are simply tools of our mind."

Is Death an Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End | Psychology Today

and intuitively, I'm wondering if SPIRITS can become "entangled?"  As I've thought about my and my husband's spirits being "intertwined," could "entangled" also describe how I feel my spirit and his spirit were always so comfortable together, from the very beginning, unlike my experience of other boyfriends (or my previous husband)?  

That whole idea about "entangled particles" is mind-boggling in itself, Quantum entanglement - Wikipedia

AND there's the "Rife machine" that can take your toenail, read it, and send frequencies to you through immense distances and these machines can be bought and people use them and say they work:  (and Rife himself got whammo'ed by SOMEbody, his work called conspiracy theory, all the same ol' same ol' we find kinda suspicious these days) ... 

Spooky2 Home

and that link above, when ya think about it, could explain things like "Havana Syndrome," eh?  what are the possibilities, some of those folk who got it, had a manicure ... pedicure ... hmmm.

 

[Boggled]

and Jesus and God, ... (kinda scared to mention, but is it possible) ...

Entangled?  entangled spirits?  which would fit right in with the beginning of the book of John, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God, the same was in the beginning with God ..."  well I guess I'd better go find it online:

"John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

² The same was in the beginning with God. "

John 1 KJV - In the beginning was the Word, and the - Bible Gateway

[widower2]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:44 AM, Boggled said:

Is Death an Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End | Psychology Today

Curious title for the article, as it never presents any evidence. It's not for me to say what does or doesn't lie beyond this existence, I don't pretend to know, but I don't think there will ever be evidence either way. We'll know when we leave this world (either way) and not before IMO

[KayC]

As one who has had NDEs (my heart stopped completely on the operating table once, and I had another time when they took my blood and lost me totally) that's all the proof I need!  Something I will never forget.  My experience isn't unlike other's.

[Boggled]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:59 PM, Sim7079 said:

Through this experience of grief,  I’m no longer bothered or care about what others think or whether they like it or not. I just do me, but I still appreciate and accept that everything one is different and listen to other views.

Sim7079, that resonates with me, particularly "I just do me."   hahahahaha!   

Well last night, something significant to my interior processes, and somehow spiritual, happened, fairly late, so it was dark outside except for one LED in our lamppost, and I'd gone out on our front porch to smoke a few puffs on a cigarette (yeah, I know, not healthy!)  with the three kittens, now about 3/4 grown I THINK, and I journaled, as follows  (changing the color for the journaling so I won't have to put quote marks):

10-14-2023

I think I have discovered Beauty again.

The kittens born 3-24-23 are now 6 mos. old.  Tonight I let the three of them come out with me, me in UnderArmor hoodie, plus Wally World velcro-closure (sewn on by me PAINSTAKINGLY last winter) puffy jacket, because to me, it's COLD  -- but to them, it was a magical night!  They were bouncing and jumping and watching one another and doing huge leaps in front of the house, under the moving dappled motion of light and shadow from the trees.  

It occurred to me:  this is beautiful!

And for some reason it's highly significant

Robert Lanza's particles, affected by observation or choice, part of the magic somehow.

I'm still having heartfelt peculiar spells of really SAD crying and just SADNESS.  But they are interspersed with Beginning ... Beginnings, like noticing true beauty tonight.

I hope the kittens will live on!  and not lose their happiness -- which expressing tonight makes me feel GOOD.  

Something about October has a feeling of MAGIC in the air.  

Those particles!  

Joy!  

[Boggled]

Well, _Love Never Dies_ by Jamie Turndorf arrived by mail and I've started reading it.   I don't know.  I just don't know if it's believable.  

But hey, I myself am BOGGLED.  I've been boggled since I've experienced some of my own signs from my husband.  Which I wouldn't have believed "before," either.  But now it's "after," and now I've had my own personal experiences that boggled my mind and in my own personal opinion, yes!  there is an afterlife, yes, communication is possible.  

There are 1-star reviews of the book on Amazon that do make sense BUT ... but.   It could be true.  I'm only reading part 1, so far.

 

[Jemiga70]

Just finished a similar book called Supernatural Love  by Pam Johnson.  I've had lots of signs and even sometimes felt like thoughts and ideas were planted in my head, but I've never experienced the kind of direct contact Dr Turndorf and Pam Johnson describe.  But who's to say what's true?  I would never tell someone their experience wasn't real.

Now reading On The Edge of the Etheric (1931)  by Arthur Findlay, who bequeathed his home in England to the study of mediumship.

[KayC]

17 hours ago, Jemiga70 said:

I would never tell someone their experience wasn't real.

Me neither, that's disrespectful.  Sometimes belief is more than just about concrete science...

[Boggled]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:31 PM, widower2 said:

Curious title for the article, as it never presents any evidence. It's not for me to say what does or doesn't lie beyond this existence, I don't pretend to know, but I don't think there will ever be evidence either way.

Widower2, insofar as "evidence" is concerned, the author, Robert Lanza, did mention "evidence" even in that short-ish article (using color to quote from his article):  

Consider the famous two-slit experiment. When scientists watch a particle pass through two slits in a barrier, the particle behaves like a bullet and goes through one slit or the other. But if you don't watch, it acts like a wave and can go through both slits at the same time. So how can a particle change its behavior depending on whether you watch it or not? The answer is simple, reality is a process that involves your consciousness.

Or consider Heisenberg's famous uncertainty principle. If there is really a world out there with particles just bouncing around, then we should be able to measure all their properties. But you can't. For instance, a particle's exact location and momentum can't be known at the same time. So why should it matter to a particle what you decide to measure? And how can pairs of entangled particles be instantaneously connected on opposite sides of the galaxy as if space and time don't exist? Again, the answer is simple: because they're not just ‘out there'—space and time are simply tools of our mind.

Death doesn't exist in a timeless, spaceless world. Immortality doesn't mean a perpetual existence in time, but resides outside of time altogether.

Our linear way of thinking about time is also inconsistent with another series of recent experiments. In 2002, scientists showed that particles of light "photons" knew, in advance,what their distant twins would do in the future. They tested the communication between pairs of photons. They let one photon finish its journey—it had to decide whether to be either a wave or a particle. Researchers stretched the distance the other photon took to reach its own detector. However, they could add a scrambler to prevent it from collapsing into a particle. Somehow, the first particle knew what the researcher was going to do before it happened, and across distances instantaneously as if there were no space or time between them. They decide not to become particles before their twin even encounters the scrambler. It doesn't matter how we set up the experiment. Our mind and its knowledge is the only thing that determines how they behave. Experiments consistently confirm these observer-dependent effects.

Bizarre? Consider another experiment that was recently published in the prestigious scientific journal Science (Jacques et al, 315, 966, 2007). Scientists in France shot photons into an apparatus, and showed that what they did could retroactively change something that had already happened in the past. As the photons passed a fork in the apparatus, they had to decide whether to behave like particles or waves when they hit a beam splitter. Later on - well after the photons passed the fork - the experimenter could randomly switch a second beam splitter on and off. It turns out that what the observer decided at that point, determined what the particle actually did at the fork in the past. At that moment, the experimenter chose his past.

 

I personally am just "Boggled," I had heard of "entangled particles" and been VERY SLIGHTLY interested in the idea that time and space apparently are immaterial to "them," but what Mr. Lanza has done is speculate much more heavily than I ever would, and probably his book called _Biocentrism_ would expound more fully about the "evidence."  From Amazon on that book:

"What makes this book both interesting and worth the effort of reading it; is the unique perspective Lanza brings to the subject matter as a physician....From the way he chooses to present his arguments, it's clear he has a solid grasp of esoteric disciplines like quantum theory, special relativity and particle physics. And what makes his presentation more compelling than other efforts I've encountered is his ability and willingness to weave personal experience into the thoughts and ideas presented. His style is conversational and warm which tends to pull you along through the exposition gently. And his sense of wonder and befuddlement at shop worn enigmas like the double slit experiment, Bell's theorem, non-locality and Schrödinger's cat is as infectious as it is delightful...I very much like what Lanza has to say in Biocentrism." --Midwest Book Review

Amazon.com: Biocentrism: How Life and Consciousness are the Keys to Understanding the True Nature of the Universe eBook : Lanza, Robert, Berman, Bob: Kindle Store

[widower2]

4 minutes ago, Boggled said:

Widower2, insofar as "evidence" is concerned, the author, Robert Lanza, did mention "evidence" even in that short-ish article 

Yes I saw that...

[Boggled]

and on the subject of "signs," ...  I bought a car!  brand new!  first time ever for buying a NEW car!  and it arrived yesterday, and after the drivers who brought it had left I was walking around the house exclaiming, trying to express out loud my amazed feeling that (after nearly two months stuck at home with no car) not only IS there a car now that belongs to me, but it's brand spanking new!!!!  ... anyhoo, I was just walking around in the house going "WOW!  WOW!  WOW!"  and suddenly there I was, sobbing hard, grieving HARD, and saying "I wish you were here for this, Steve!!!!"  ... and the light over the dining room table, that hadn't blinked when turned on for many days (not sure how long) ... started blinking.  

so me.  I took it as a "sign."

[Boggled]

so another thought, regarding Emanuel Swedenborg article posted above:

On 9/28/2023 at 7:24 AM, Boggled said:

"In the case of marriage, the object is to bring about the joining of the two partners at the spiritual and physical levels, and the happiness that comes as a consequence. "

all of us who are grieving the loss of our spouses have done this, seems to me, or we wouldn't be grieving!  ... SPIRITUAL and physical level ... 

 

On 9/28/2023 at 7:24 AM, Boggled said:

"Swedenborg saw creation as a series of pairings, descending from the Divine love and wisdom^[121] that define God and are the basis of creation. This duality can be seen in the pairing of good and truth,^[122] charity and faith,^[123] God and the church,^[124] and husband and wife.^[125] In each case, the goal for these pairs is to achieve conjunction between the two component parts.

and at least insofar as the Wikipedia article describes Swedenborg's (undoubtedly LENGTHY!  sheesh the man wrote a huge number of books and expounded a LOT and IMHO again (like the Lanza book) I'm probably never going to actually read the whole darned long thing!) ... Swedenborg's theory about "the goal," and WHOSE goal?  God's goal? ... "to achieve conjunction between the two component parts."  

and we who grieve have achieved at least enough "conjunction" to grieve, eh?  and to grieve hard, and "conjunction" was God's goal for us on earth!!!(?)  

[Boggled]

Jemiga70, first book I'd read on the subject was _Love is Stronger than Death_ by Cynthia Bourgeault.  In her case the connection was (far as I could tell) platonic.  (and if you read only the one-star reviews, she was whacked?)  hahahahaha ... it's good to laugh sometimes, a nice relieving descent from the high to the low, hahahahahahaHA!

amazon.com/Love-Stronger-than-Death-Mystical/dp/1939681359/ref=sr_1_1?crid=262V34NN4CH8E&keywords=love+is+stronger+than+death+bourgeault&qid=1697810361&s=books&sprefix=love+is+stronger+than+death+bourgeault%2Cstripbooks%2C142&sr=1-1

[foreverhis]

2 hours ago, Boggled said:

Love is Stronger than Death

I don’t mean this to disregard or diminish our individual faith and spiritual beliefs at all. I believe that the “proof” that love is stronger than death resides in each of us, even those who are atheists. That proof is in some ways simple, in my mind at least: Love is stronger than death because we, every one of us here, still love strongly and always will. Death has robbed us of their physical presence, but it has not weakened the thread of love that binds us to them. That is all the more reason to try to grasp why and how that connection exists.

I tend to be a rational empiricist whose mind and heart are open to the reality that we don’t know everything and never will in this lifetime. It seems to me that most of us who are grieving deeply have questions and yearning to know how this vast, mysterious, wondrous universe works, even if we already have a strong faith.

We should ask the questions and we should use both science and spirituality to explore and try to better understand. We should not dismiss or ridicule another person’s experiences. And we should be open to experiencing things we might not have believed in the “before” time, such as signs and visitations and even NDEs.

As always, this is just my opinion. My and John’s faith evolved a great deal over the years. Yet even when we decided to separate ourselves from the specific denominations of our upbringing, we never lost our faith. And so we continued to weave both the empirical and the spiritual together in our own lives.

 

[Boggled]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:23 AM, foreverhis said:

I believe that the “proof” that love is stronger than death resides in each of us, even those who are atheists. That proof is in some ways simple, in my mind at least: Love is stronger than death because we, every one of us here, still love strongly and always will. Death has robbed us of their physical presence, but it has not weakened the thread of love that binds us to them. That is all the more reason to try to grasp why and how that connection exists.

foreverhis, this "grief" has certainly CHANGED me, I think it has changed all of us!   Death has indeed not weakened the thread of love that binds us to them!  Why and how that connection exists is a question that has really been hitting me!    Well said!

On 10/20/2023 at 11:23 AM, foreverhis said:

We should ask the questions and we should use both science and spirituality to explore and try to better understand. We should not dismiss or ridicule another person’s experiences. And we should be open to experiencing things we might not have believed in the “before” time, such as signs and visitations and even NDEs.

Thank you for saying this, it's exactly how I've been feeling and yes, questioning.  

 

[Boggled]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:18 PM, Sim7079 said:

The second time was when I was talking to one of my brothers & he had made me laugh. I don’t laugh often now & I took it as a sign that my hubby was happy to hear me laugh & the light flickered on and off.  And the last time it happened was when I was up really late working, stressed with work & the light flickered on and off. And I took it as a sign & my hubby was saying what you doing up so late, or maybe just a hello. 

As far as not laughing now, I've noticed I'm just a lot more serious and sometimes, what I'd call "grim" than I used to be.  There's a sense of wonder, also, that I didn't have before.   You notice and remember the "signs."  I also feel thankful so very much, for them.

[Boggled]

There's a book online that discusses Swedenborg that I've just found, called _The Swedenborg Epic_, by Cyriel Sigstedt.  

Chapter 30 is called "Life after Death:"  The Swedenborg Epic: Chapter 30 (swedenborgdigitallibrary.org)

and the remainder of the book can be accessed via the link "Table of Contents" under the picture of the book on that link.

I've been grumpy lately because of my MIL talking about some book recently written about "the rapture," which for some reason just makes me ... grumpy.  

I've tried reading the book of "Revelation" ... can't figure out a timeline for the thing.  Really, to me, the writings of Swedenborg as explicated in the "wickedpedia" article, as well as other writings found online, make ... sense.   

[Jemiga70]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:17 AM, Boggled said:

Really, to me, the writings of Swedenborg [ . . .] make ... sense.   

And to me.  I just dont buy that old church fire &  brimstone stuff.  Swedenborg obviously had mediumistic gifts.  His ideas about the afterlife are consistent with other things Ive read including the Monsignor Hugh Benson books channeled by Anthony Borgia (e.g. Life in the World Unseen) and the book I'm reading now called On the Edge of the Etheric by Arthur Findlay.

 

[Boggled]

Jemiga70, I too have some problems with relating to organized religion.  

Who was Jesus?  We have the Bible.  We have the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumran scrolls, Qumran - Wikipedia,

and thinking along the lines of those who consider the "veil of Veronica" (story is, Veronica followed Jesus as he carried the cross, lent him her veil to wipe off his sweat, the veil then had an "image of the face" on it), the veil is claimed to be in various places now, Veil of Veronica - Wikipedia, the one from the Vatican is so decomposed by time that the face can't really be seen at all anymore:  File:Vatican Veil of Veronica.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

... but this one made ME cry:  

Manoppello Image - Wikipedia

then there is the Shroud or Turin, another mystery, is it truly Jesus or not?  Shroud of Turin - Wikipedia

Nowadays with the internet, we can search much much faster than people used to.  

what IS the Bible?  long Wikipedia article, Bible - Wikipedia  (odd, tried to copy the link to the part about the New Testament but it will only post as that).  

end of this spirituality post this time:  we have our own feelings.  We all have our own beliefs.  We are all able to search the internet nowadays (as long as we have computers and electricity! and our reason) but "our own feelings" is about as close as I'm at as far as "where did my love go?"  

BTW, we are coming up, now in late October, on the set of days now known as "Halloween, All Saints' Day, and All Souls' Day."  similar to "Samhain" of Wicca.  My feeling is that there IS something about this month of October ... at least here where I live.   People call the feeling "spooky," supposedly the days when the veil is thinnest between the afterworld and this one ... 

 

[KayC]

In the music thread two people posted about a song

"Would you know my name?
If I saw you in Heaven
Would it be the same?
If I saw you in Heaven" "

and I wanted to respond to that, but see my response was removed.  I only want to provide hope to those wondering.  
Since I wasn't given opportunity to move my response, I'm not positive this was it but it was something like this and I chose Billy Graham's answer as so many respected him...https://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/billy-graham-we-re-sure-to-recognize-each-other-1117754.php

On 10/25/2023 at 7:17 AM, Boggled said:

can't figure out a timeline for the thing.

If God wanted us to know, He's capable of letting us know...

[KayC]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:20 AM, Boggled said:

it's brand spanking new!!!!

I'd wondered...so glad for you!  I can't imagine being w/o a car, esp, with no Ubers or taxis or buses here...

[Alisond]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:02 PM, Sim7079 said:

❤️❤️❤️ This is so true

Yes.

[Boggled]

found a book about entangled "minds:"  Amazon.com: Entangled Minds: Extrasensory Experiences in a Quantum Reality: 8601400924655: Radin, Dean

[NarenMic]

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your husband's passing. It takes immense strength to navigate through such loss, and it's inspiring to see you finding solace in books. The concept of the afterlife has always intrigued me, and your description of the book has piqued my curiosity even more. It sounds like it offers a unique perspective on coping with grief and understanding what lies beyond. And for mentioning Christian Walls—it seems like a lovely addition to any home, serving as a reminder of faith and hope. Once again, I'm truly sorry for your loss, but I'm glad you've found some comfort in sharing your journey here.

[Boggled]

can we really believe "there ain't no such thing as propaganda?"    well not me.  Maybe it's a SPIRITUAL belief, but it does SEEM to me in the depths of my little heart and soul, that propaganda is quite a THING.   

Marcus Borg (a Christian, btw) talked about "domination systems" going back at least to the Romans ... Christians in an Age of Empire, Then and Now - The Marcus J Borg Foundation

personally, this very IDEA of "domination systems" is "interesting," to me.

[KayC]

@widower2  Couldn't message with this

23 hours ago, Boggled said:

can we really believe "there ain't no such thing as propaganda?"

? I don't see where anyone said anything different.

[Boggled]

22 hours ago, KayC said:

? I don't see where anyone said anything different.

🤣  nope, can't see it ... anymore!  😆   

well that gave me a good laugh, anyway.   

[KayC]

Urgent prayer request:  I'm having a bid done for the back of my carport to be lifted and replaced...they quoted $2500 before Covid then was told it went up 4-8 times as much, not having $10-$20k laying around I've been waiting for the price to go down...they said it hasn't.  The room on the end is the important one, it has the electrical, water tank and pipes...they're doing a bid tomorrow.  

Today I get a bill from the well people (just paid them $4300 on my M/C) for MORE $ that I'd been told was included in that, now they say not!  The guy had said I was in it for $3750, they billed me $4300, now more yet!

[KayC]

This guy is the best, I got took on some roofs years ago and learned my lesson, he's the only one I would trust.  I will ask about him doing the lift now and replacing the back in the summer. That would bide me some time.  And I pray I don't sneeze wrong meanwhile. Will see about paying the well bill in  a week. I must have misunderstood, but it was horrible timing!

[foreverhis]

On it, Kay!  Prayers being sent!💗

[P777]

Hi Kay, my Son are sending you prayers 🙏

[KayC]

2 hours ago, Paul777 said:

Hi Kay, my Son are sending you prayers 🙏

8 hours ago, foreverhis said:

On it, Kay!  Prayers being sent!💗

Thank you! to both of you!  Last night, if it wasn't bad enough, I got aother bill from the well people!  I'd been told the first bill included them coming back, now they say naught.  I don't see how I could have misunderstood.  So I'm grappling in my budget for more thousands I don't have and I get hit with another bill yet!  Didn't sleep a lot.  But my scripture today was:

 

 

How appropo!