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      Hi all,  I'm sure you've noticed some changes in the forums. We've again had to do some updates, so that's why things may look a little different. Nothing major should have changed.  Also, we are going to start adding advertisements sensitive to our community on the boards. This is something we are experimenting with, and we will certainly make sure they are in the best interests of everyone. We want to make sure our forums continue to stay accessible and cost free to all of our members, and this is a way to ensure this.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to privately message me or email me at Konnie@beyondindigo.com.  As always, we will be here with you, ModKonnie
kelly

I Believe There Isn't a God...

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Hi Maria Celeste, I want to offer you a very warm welcome to this forum. This forum is unique because it specifically fulfills the needs of those who have suffered a loss that are non-religious and don't believe in existence of a god or gods. I have searched the internet and have not found a another grief support site that offers this specific service. It's wonderful that the owners and moderators of this site created it for atheist/agnostic grief-stricken people. I commend them for it. Unfortunately, since its creation, other than myself, there really haven't been any atheist/agnostics here who have suffered a devastating loss while sharing similar beliefs. I have been waiting for more atheists/agnostics to find this site and forum so we can have comforting discussions to help each other and making us realize we're not alone in how we feel. I am so glad you found this forum and I have the opportunity to talk to you. I understand what you're saying. I usually don't provide details of the devastating loss I suffered because those who have different beliefs have tried to proselytize and judge me instead of offering the compassion and understanding of a friend. That is why up until now I haven't really felt comfortable in discussiing my loss. Yes, religious believers can be very cruel to people like you and me. Like you, I have experienced the same kind of cruel behavior from religous believers on other sites. That is why this forum is so critical. At last, we have a place specifically for people meeting others that can truly relate and understand without encountering unpleasant religious baggage and attitudes. I hope you visit this site often knowing there isn't anything to be uncomfortable about or be afraid of here. Maria, you can confide in me whatever loss you've suffered and I will treat you as a friend, offering you compassion and understanding. By reading your few posts, we have a lot in common. I am also honored and flattered that you decided to become a member of this forum after reading my posts. I am always very honest with my thoughts and feelings and am dedicated to being truthful with everything I write. I'm glad you recognize this fact and I appreciate the compliments. That means a lot to me. I will look forward to having excellent discusions with you in the near future. Thanks again for finding this forum, being honest, plus displaying such understaning, intelligence, and kind words.

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Tomorrow is going to be a doubly painful day for me. Those who live in the United States know that tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day. For me, personally, it has more painful significance. It is also November 23. That is my mother's birthday. For those who have read my story know that a few years ago I lost my mother to terminal cancer. It was so heartbreaking and devastating. No mother and son could possibly be closer or love each other more. While throughout the calendar year, me and my mother would always go places and do things together, certain dates of the year had even more special meaning and significance. Thanksgiving Day was one of those special dates. My mom's birthday always came right around Thanksgiving (usually days before). In those years, I would seperately take the day off from work to celebrate my mom's birthday, and then, a few days later would also celebrate Thanksgiving Day with her. When her birthday and Thanksgiving Day wound up on the identical day, we combined a birthday celebration for her and Thanksgiving. It was always a very special time of year for us. While there isn't a day that goes by that I don't feel the pain of how much I miss her, this week is where that pain really hits home even more and is more intense. Especially with my mom's birthday and Thanksgiving Day on the same day this year. My mom was everything to me. Since my mom died, I have been very much alone in the world. I live with my brother but we don't have a real closeness and he's always busy and usually has very litlle time for me. I have no close relatives or friends. What keeps me going is my work schedule and constantly staying busy so I don't have the time to dwell on how lonely I am without my mom. Thursday is one of those days my strategy for coping is even more important. Knowing the double-meaning thursday has is extremely painful without my mom being here. A plus that does help me is my belief system. I know that it is illogical to believe in the existence of god. I know there is no proof, evidence or reason, to suggest that there is any possibility of a god's existence. Therefore, my comforting conclusion is that there was no cruel, sadistic, hateful, murdeous god who caused my mom to have terminal cancer or just sat by and let it happen while letting her die. Also, there is no criminally abusive god who stole my mom away from me totally breaking my heart. Knowing this, you can't hold someone or something responsible for such heinous acts and hating it when it doesn't and never existed in the first place. Because of these honest conclusions, it gives me such tremendous comfort and peace of mind. It is far better (besides being more logical and rational) in believing that a god doesn't exist because the alternative belief is far more destructive. Because of my 100% atheist commitment, I have a much better mental outlook than I would have otherwise. While it is impossible to take away the pain of me being without my mother, my lack of beliefs in the existence of any god gives me the comfort and peace of mind that no other beliefs could possibly achieve.

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lauraa   

Evrlastinggodstopper.......I read about your feelings of not having your dear mother. I am deeply sorry for your loss. When we go thru our grief these anniversaries seem to hit us hard. I am truely sorry that you have to feel this pain. I know the lonliness you speak of. I lost both my parents and husband within a 6 month period.....there are so many dates and anniversaries to get thru we all know but I find it is also the everyday stuff that hurts. I know what you mean even when you talk about your brother not being as close to your mom because I was "daddy's little girl" and my siblings are all boys (9 brothers)....so there is no way they could possibly know how I feel. I will keep you in my thoughts.

Peace.

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Dear Everlasting,

Thank you for the welcome. I'm sorry about your mother, Everlasting. I know with time it gets a little better, but it still hurts. Loss is a feeling, and a belief is a feeling. This is what this place is for, to talk about your feelings. You've done that very well.

My brother died 5 years ago of respiratory failure, he was 40.

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

there is a god!!!!!!!! god is great and is helping me through my brother dying he was 4 im 14 i miss him and god is helping me!!!!!!!!!!

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Dear Guest-- this is not a good place to scream out your opposition to others' beliefs. This particular thread is for people who don't believe...and that is their choosing and their right. There are other more appropriate threads for you to share... Being 14 and going through what you are is devastating and difficult. You will find better assistance and compassion in the appropriate places. Blessings, dear one. -Claudia

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Guest,

You are obviously a newcomer to this site. I will explain to you how it's set up. Everybody who comes here is grieving over the loss of a loved one. They have divided each forum into categories so posters can find the most comforing discussions to fill their needs. There are many different types of beliefs. Often, heated arguments and disagreements can surface over beliefs which would ultimately make the grieving individual feel worse. Beyond Indigo has wisely separated beliefs into specific forums (those who believe there is a God and those who believe there isn't a God)in order to avoid this problem. That way, posters know they are among people who share like-minded beliefs in coping with their loss so no hostile interactions would occur causing any more mental and emotional pain. Now, I could very easily go to the "I believe there isn't a God" forum and post the opposite of what you posted here, saying "There is no God. Even If a God did exist, he is definitely a horrible monster and helps nobody." Have I ever done that? No. Would I ever do that? No. Why? Because on this "I believe there isn't a God forum" it specifically satisfies my posting needs according to my beliefs and situation. Also, I wouldn't do it out of respect for others and because it would cause trouble, resentment and animosity. And that would destroy the purpose of this site for being a comforting, friendly, grief-support community. You should give us on this forum the same respect and courtesy. So, guest, in the future, go to the "I believe there is a God" forum which suits your needs instead of coming on to this forum trying to argue and lashing out at those whose beliefs are completely different than yours.

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Dear Maria Celeste,

I appreciate your comforting thoughts and words. The pain does lessen over time in it's intensity. But, it's still a pain that will always be with you for the rest of your life. There is like a hole, an empty space in your heart, a void that can never be filled. Me and my mother were as close and loved each other as much as any two people possibly could. She was the only real love in my life who truly cared about me. After she died, I cried several times a day and went into a deep depression. Then, I went to see a psychiatrist who diagnosed me as suffering from deep depression and highly recommended that I desperately needed to be put on anti-depressant medication. For the last few years, I take an anti-depressant once every day. It has helped me cope and function during the day. Without it, I would be in much more extreme pain and would be unable to function. The anti-depression medication dosen't take away your emotions (no drug can do that). What it does is even out the emotions so they're not so intense and helps me cope and function daily. Also, I see a therapist/social worker once a week. Since I am very much alone in the world, it gives me my only opportunity during the week to sit down and talk to someone while sharing all of my thoughts and feelings. Also, I go on atheist websites regularly and read. The writings on those sites has given me a great comfort and understanding. I am convinced that in all likelihood, since there is absolutley no proof or evidence, that no such thing as God exists. Believing that, I can't be angry at an evil God who either caused my mom to have cancer or let it happen taking her away from me and torturously having to live the rest of my life without her. Why? Because he doesn't exist so this ultimate heartbreak just happened with nobody to blame. Anyway, thank you for telling me what devastating loss brought you to this forum. I am very sorry for the loss of your brother. My heart goes out to you.

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Giving a little benefit of the doubt with a compassionate but firm correction on the use of the forum would most likely make the point sufficiently to "help" a grieving 14 year old child rather than following it up with a harsh and sarcastic scolding... just my opinion... There was obviously a maturity factor involved.

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I could try to understand guest's behavior if there was only one belief forum. However, that is not the case. Beyond Indigo has multiple beliefs and religions forums. The entrance to this specific one reads as follows:

I Believe There Isn't A God

A place for those grieving to share their feelings about non-God religions and death.

That description is self-explanatory ensuring that there won't be any honest mistakes in posting on the wrong forum. Even at 14, what guest did could not be considered accidental. The point needed to be made to avoid such situations in the future.

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It's just too bad that your desire to defend your religion of non-religion outweights your sense of compassion and support, regardless of error, which seems to me is what any forum on BI is essentially purposed to provide. Who are you? I mean, I'm sure you have pain too, but you're so relentlessly bitter and attacking when someone doesn't adhere to "your" forum. This is "your forum", right?

It's stuff like this that just baffles me about human behavior, religion or not...

To whomever is the moderator of this forum, SHAME ON YOU for allowing this kind of behavior for so long... It's really disappointing and discouraging!!

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I never said it was my forum. I had tried to post on other grief support sites expressing my loss. Unfortunately, on those sites I was verbally attacked for my non-beliefs by others and constantly subjected to attempted religious coercion and proselytizing. That treatment added significantly to my painful loss. After that, I vigorously searched the internet for a specific site which had a forum specifically for non-believers suffering a loss. For a while, my search was unsuccessful. Finally, I found this site which had exactly what I was looking for. A place to not only discuss my loss but with people who shared my like-minded non-beliefs. Others like Maria Celeste I'm sure have experienced the same thing. That's why she felt so uncomfortable on other sites talking about her loss, too. I was so glad when she finally felt comfortable and secure to talk about what heartbreaking loss brought her here. People who are believers shouldn't post here because they'll only cause more unnecessary pain to myself, Maria Celeste, and others who specifically wanted desperately to communicate with others who reject beliefs in any God. That's why we post here. It provides us with a special feature we can't find anywhere else. It would be shameful if someone came along and ruined it. Maria Celeste and I have become friends and have bonded because not only of our loss but also non-belief. For everything I've been through, that means so much to me.

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Dear E: I am truly very, very sorry for your loss and pain. I've read your posts and how special your relationship was with your mother. My heart really goes out to you. I'm sure there is a huge empty hole in you rlife, just as there is for me since my son died. I agree that there are appropriate forums for all types of specific needs. And this one, I am very happy to hear, suits your needs. It's just really disheartening sometimes to see insensitive remarks toward someone that is crying out for help, even if they stumble into the wrong forum. Yes! The child's post was inappropriately placed. There is no question. But I think, religious or not, we all go through phases of anger in our grief stages, and this little 14 year old is no different. I did feel a sense of immaturity come from her post, which just made me feel even more compassion and sadness for her. Lashing out is one of her ways of coping, and it's so unfortunate and sad. I had hoped that I responded quickly enough, with gentleness and respect, to let her know she made a mistake in posting what she did here. It was never my intention to upset you or anyone else here. We all need support, compassion and understanding in a way that helps us to heal through our grief. We would not be on boards like this if it were not so. I'm sorry for putting you on the defensive like that. Please accept my apology. I am truly sorry for your loss. My deepest condolences to you...

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lauraa   

Gear Guest:

Come on over to, I BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD" site.....This is where you belong and I promise all of us there will support you in all you are feeling. We are a family. You are not alone and hopefully with our support you will gain strength with each new day.

To everyone else here...This is in no way meant to insult anyone here. I am just wanting to reach out to a 14 year old who is hurting from the bottom of her soul.

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Dear Everlasting, Hi,

If you and I come to these forums is because we know we need each other for comfort, we won't, can't get that from a God. I don't understand why people feel they have to argue with people.

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Dear Maria, I agree with you. We come to these forums hoping to receive comfort and understanding from a friend. Since this specific forum is titled, "I believe there isn't a God", religious believers should know that we reject belief in the existence of any God so comments of that nature won't provide us comfort. It's a shame that some believers (not all) disrespect the purpose of this forum by posting here in trying to argue and proselytize. I don't understand why they make such attempts. They should know those behaviors only create a hostile environment for non-believers and cause unnecessary pain and resentment. That type of unpleasantness is what I want avoided. I highly value this forum. It is the only one on the entire internet that specifically suits my needs. Finally, I have found a place where I can express my loss and explain how I cope regarding my non-belief in any God in peace. I just hope there will be no more future incidents, like guest's recent actions, to ruin, disrupt and disturb what should be a safe, internet community. I'm just going to try and forget about what happened (move on) and hope something similar doesn't occur ever again on this forum. I very much want my positive posting experience on this forum to continue (I'm sure other non-believing posters, like yourself, feel the same way).

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Dear Everlasting,

If I'm not a God person I have no interest in entering a Believe in God topic, I would just stick to my interest of non-god topic. I don't care what people believe or don't believe in. If I don't care what people believe in, I'm not going to get into an arguement about it. I'ts very simple you agree fine, you don't agree, just leave it. As long as people don't harm one another. I see argument as a form of hatred.

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Hi All, I post on many different grief and loss boards, so I'm not surfing to pick on anyone or debate, or what have you. I am so sorry for everyone here that is going through a painful loss. I was looking back on posts to see who you lost, Mariaceleste, and I couldn't find anywhere. Everlasting, I know you miss your mom. Have either of you felt any different with the New Year? My son died in July, and it seems like since 2007 arrived my grief has really taken a nosedive; maybe because from 2007 on Joey isn't here anymore. I was just wondering how you are coping. I know work keeps you busy, E. I just can't seem to find anything that keeps me busy enough... if that makes sense. Anyway, to you, maria, and everyone here, I just stopped in to say that I hope this new year brings some comfort somewhere along the way...

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mariposa   

If one does not believe in God or "afterlife" then how is it that we get through this? I lost my father 5 months ago and I'm so devestated. He had terminal cancer. I do not believe that there is an afterlife but everyone around me does except for my significant other. So I see all the people around me that miss my dad and they deal with their grief by having "faith" or knowing they will see him "one day" but me I dont believe those things so everything is so final for me and I really do not know how to deal with it. I find myself pushing it aside. Pushing the pain aside just to get through my days and to go on with life but I miss my dad so much and I'm left with horrible memories of watching him suffer for years and watching him suffer until his last breath. How does a person with my belief system get through this? I dont tell anyone how I feel because people do not understand. It's been embedded in them to have a religion. It was also embedded in me but as long as I could remember I've always been one to question things. Once I really found myself I realized life was a whole lot better. I dont know if I'm making sense. I guess I'm just searching for someone that has a similar way of thinking and I'm wondering how you've gotten through a situation like this? How have you dealt with such a tremendous loss? You see I dont think my dad went up to heaven. I think he is all around me and not in the form of the way I knew him. I hope this makes sense to someone out there. Here is a poem that brings me comfort and explains how I feel.

Do not stand at my grave and weep

I am not there; I do not sleep.

I am a thousand winds that blow,

I am the diamond glints on snow,

I am the sun on ripened grain,

I am the gentle autumn rain.

When you awaken in the morning's hush

I am the swift uplifting rush

Of quiet birds in circled flight.

I am the soft stars that shine at night.

I am in the flowers that bloom;

I am in a quiet room.

I am in the birds that sing;

I am in each lovely thing.

Do not stand at my grave and cry,

I am not there; I did not die.

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sidvis   

Mariposa, There are many ways to think about what comes after death. All I can tell you is what I have experienced since the death of my husband. It was sudden, and I think for that reason I was very open to any \"cosmic\" messages or feelings that were out there. I have received great comfort from some spiritual connection with the universe or God or whatever you want to call it. I truly believe there is something, some force that rules the universe. I believe when we die our essence is released into the universe. I don\'t know what form or anything, but our energy is still there. I have such strong feelings somtimes that my husband is with me still. My desire to connect with him makes it so. I have read so many posts from other spouses who have had virtually the same feelings and experienced the exact dreams and connections that I have to make me believe there is something that comes after. How else do you explain how we all have so much in common when it comes to these similar experiences? Be open to the universe, it is so vast that anything is possible. Peace

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mariposa   

Sidvis, Thanks so much for your input. It makes sense what youre saying. I guess I'm kind of confused. I was actually thinking about the last post I left. I was thinking about it this morning and my thoughts were that there has to be something after. Maybe it's not exactly the way the majority talk about it as in "heaven" and "God" and all that. I was thinking though that I've come across some experiences to cause me to believe there is something after. I think I'm trying to make sense of all this because like I said I dont believe it the way the people around me do. I dont "think" about it how they do but anyway I'm just rambling on. Thanks again for responding. I'm pretty confused though lol I guess I'm just searching for my own answers rather than to have people bombard me with their religious beliefs. I grew up like that. People always telling me what to believe but I've always questioned it. I guess I'm just trying to find my own answers and this felt like the perfect place to post. I'm sorry about your husband. How long ago did he pass away? I worry about my mom. She's a widow at 53.

Mariposa, There are many ways to think about what comes after death. All I can tell you is what I have experienced since the death of my husband. It was sudden, and I think for that reason I was very open to any "cosmic" messages or feelings that were out there. I have received great comfort from some spiritual connection with the universe or God or whatever you want to call it. I truly believe there is something, some force that rules the universe. I believe when we die our essence is released into the universe. I don't know what form or anything, but our energy is still there. I have such strong feelings somtimes that my husband is with me still. My desire to connect with him makes it so. I have read so many posts from other spouses who have had virtually the same feelings and experienced the exact dreams and connections that I have to make me believe there is something that comes after. How else do you explain how we all have so much in common when it comes to these similar experiences? Be open to the universe, it is so vast that anything is possible. Peace

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rodless   

Mariposa, the poem you mentioned has also brought me great comfort. It was on a sympathy card from a good friend and I keep it with things I treasure. I think we are all entitled to our beliefs or non-beliefs and as long as we all respect that, we can comfort each other without forcing anything upon another person. I am 56 and my husband died in July. It's a really tough time for your mom. Be there when she needs you, give her space when she needs that. My daughter has done that for me. Mary Jo

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sidvis   

Mariposa, I really like your name, butterfly, right? I am 49. My husband died 16 months ago. My sister is 53 like your mom and her husband died after a long battle with colon cancer. It was ten years that he fought. He died at home with all of us around him. He died about 7 weeks before my husband did. Grieving is a way of life for us right now. The "inner strength" that my sister and I have tapped into gets us through. You have that too, I can tell by the way you write. Any time you can express your thoughts so clearly I believe you are on the right course of understanding. Just keep posting and journaling and talking to your significant other. All these things will get you through. Tell your mom about all these ways to cope. I know this site is really a healing site. Just look at the forum "I miss him so"

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