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I Believe There Isn't a God...


Kelly

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Sidvis and Rodless thanks so much for responding to my posts. I wish us all inner peace and happiness and I believe as long as we know we are worth it we'll find that inner peace and happiness that we deserve! Life is so very hard but I realize If it wasnt hard then we wouldnt know how precious and valuable it truly is!

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Dear Maria, I agree with you. We come to these forums hoping to receive comfort and understanding from a friend. Since this specific forum is titled, "I believe there isn't a God", religious believers should know that we reject belief in the existence of any God so comments of that nature won't provide us comfort. It's a shame that some believers (not all) disrespect the purpose of this forum by posting here in trying to argue and proselytize. I don't understand why they make such attempts. They should know those behaviors only create a hostile environment for non-believers and cause unnecessary pain and resentment. That type of unpleasantness is what I want avoided. I highly value this forum. It is the only one on the entire internet that specifically suits my needs. Finally, I have found a place where I can express my loss and explain how I cope regarding my non-belief in any God in peace. I just hope there will be no more future incidents, like guest's recent actions, to ruin, disrupt and disturb what should be a safe, internet community. I'm just going to try and forget about what happened (move on) and hope something similar doesn't occur ever again on this forum. I very much want my positive posting experience on this forum to continue (I'm sure other non-believing posters, like yourself, feel the same way).

Are you "proselytize-ing"? It appears that some things never evolve. Kinda makes me wonder about evolution. Happy Trails and Keep on Truckin'- watch those future incidents, as there are sure to be- just as there have been past incidents. WOW

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evrlastinggodstopper

gonedog,

I have moved on from the incident and haven't thought about it. Why are so persistent in trying to provoke? Your comments really serve no constructive purpose.

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evrlastinggodstopper

Mariposa,

I am very sorry for the loss of your father. My heart goes out to you. I lost my mom to terminal colon cancer. We were so very close and had such a special bond between us. I miss her more than any words can ever say. I try to keep as busy as possible so I don't think about the mental and emotional pain. I also talk to a social worker/therapist once a week because I really don't have anyone else that close that I can talk to. Also, I take an antidepressant once a day so my emotions aren't so intense and I can function during the day. As far as daily living goes, this is how I cope.

As far as belief systems goes, we all struggle with a belief system we can live with and what just feels right to us. I don't believe in something just because that is what the majority around me believes. You have to be honest with your inner self. If I could choose a belief system though, yours would be the one I'd want. Not only do I reject belief in God's existence (there is no proof or evidence for his existence) but I also don't want him existing to be true. If God exists, he took my mom away from me which completely broke my heart and left me very lonely. If God exists, he either sits by and watches or causes people to get diseases like cancer but does nothing stop it or cure it. Also, he would watch or cause the pain, suffering, and tragedies that occur in the world on a daily basis and does nothing to prevent or stop them. Also, it would all be part of some cruel plan that he devised. So, the thought of a God existing nauseates me. I can't stand the thought of even the slighest possibility of a supernatural being called God existing.

However, I loved my mother so very much. she was everything to me. I can't stand the thought of her no longer existing. I want very much to believe that after she died she exists in some form and is still around me. So, Mariposa, that would be the perfect belief system for me to have. It is what I would want to be true.

However, for me, believing something just because I want it to be true just isn't enough. That again comes back to faith (it's definition is believing something with no proof or evidence). I have to believe something beyond a reasonable doubt. For me, I have to know its true. As far as the question of what happens when we die, it really is impossible for any of us to be absolutely sure.

So, with the question of God's existence, I can easily rule it out because of no proof or evidence (which I'm satisfied with). Unfortunately, since there is no proof or evidence of our loved ones continuing on (such as my mother, which I'm not satisfied with and pains me to say) I just can't believe it. And that is definitely a struggle for me because it is a clash and personal conflict between what I want to be true and what I just can't be absolutely sure about. This is my dilemma that mind does wrestle with. I hope you understand.

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evrlastinggodstopper

Today is a very rough and especially painful day for me. It's my birthday. My mom never forgot my birthday and always made it point to take me out somewhere special to celebrate it. Unfortunately, I don't work today. So, I'm just going to be home alone. What helps me keep going is knowing that since there is no proof or evidence that a being called God exists, 100% firmly reject such a belief. Also, I visit atheist forums regularly for comfort and just recently a terrific letter to the fictional god was posted. Even if the impossible were proven and God did actually exist, I would never praise or worship it. This letter expresses so much of how I feel if that impossibility unlikely turned out to be true. For my birthday, I am posting it as a comforting birthday present to myself on this nonbelieving grief support forum. Here it is:

An Open Letter to God...

Hello God...

I should point out that I don't believe in you, but just in case--despite all the evidence to the contrary--I'm wrong, and you do actually exist, I feel I should inform you why I still refuse to worship you. I'm assuming here that you take the form of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, who created everything and intervenes in the affairs of humans when it suits your fancy.

1) I don't believe in worshipping anybody. I believe it is demeaning to humans to worship anything, even as almighty as yourself. And for that matter, I don't understand why you need to be worshipped. Are you that insecure? Will you develop a complex if we piddly humans don't grovel before you?

2) If in fact you don't need worship, nut want love and respect, well, I'm sorry, but you simply don't meet my standards. You have inflicted on the world such horrors as floods, hurricanes and earthquakes that have caused the suffering and death of random millions of human beings, many of them guilty of nothing more than minor 'sins'. And these catastrophes are minor compared to the incredible damage done by the diseases you have given us. Influenza, the Black Death, polio, smallpox, malaria, AIDS and SIDS have caused incomparable suffering throughout human history. Smallpox has killed more people in history than all the wars and murders combined. Malaria continues to kill between one and three million people a year, most of them children under five. I cannot worship, love, respect. admire or even have minor affection for a being who would knowingly kill His creation in such a horrible manner.

Now your defenders (and they are legion would offer up the following excuses:

a)"Might makes right. God is all powerful, so he can do whatever he likes."

Okay, but don't ask me to worship such a despot. Hitler had power, too, but I don't have to worship him. And why would a God of love want to hurt his creations in such horrible ways?

b)"God has given us all the good things in life, too."

True enough, but so what? If a mother gives birth to three children, breast feeds them, loves them, nurtures them, and raises them, and then for no apparent reason, poisons one of them to death, would anyone defend her? Woukld anyone say: "That's okay, she's allowed to cruelly kill one of her children, since she gave it life, too, In fact, she is the ultimate in love and should be worshipped as perfect."

Of course, no-one would think such a thing. Yet you are far worse than that mother, because you don't have the excuse of being an imperfect human being.

"Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect," your 'son' said. So this must mean that if a terrorist unleashes a deadly new disease into the world that randomly kills millions, he is merely being as 'perfect' as you are, and should be loved and worshipped?

c)"If we didn't have these horrors, the population would skyrocket."

Well, it's skyrocketing anyway. But as an omnipotent, omniscient God, couldn't you think of a better way to cull the population? You could simply make us less fertile, which would be a much painful solution for the beings you claim to love. Malaria attacks babies with fever, chills, pain and deformities. Do you enjoy watching people slowly waste away from AIDS? If you love us you sure have a funny way of showing it.

d)"God's ways are unknowable."

No kidding. So how do I know you are loving and merciful? I can only go by what I see. And what I see, stinks.

Yours Sincerely,

A Human Being

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4everjoeysmom

Dear E, I hope that you are able to find a little peace and comfort on this day, your birthday. I truly wish peace and comfort could be welcomed for you and by you. I am puzzled at how that could even come to be for you, because though I know you want and need very much to express what you believe and don't believe, there is so much hatred and animosity along with it. And I wonder through those emotions how peace and comfort can ever be let in to greet you. Is it worth carrying around the bitterness toward something or someone you don't believe even exists? I just wonder how you would even begin to overcome by a minute proportion given the consumption of your energy into something or someone that by all your accounts isn't even there. How does this make you personally feel better? Can peace and comfort even begin to exist for you? You say you are comforted by the fact that you know and believe what you do, but then it is always followed by feelings and words of anger, bitterness, hatred animosity and the like toward something or someone you say doesn't exist. How is that good for you? I truly am just wondering for the sake of you finding comfort and peace. I respond with compassion for someone I see hurting so much. Honestly, I can understand why you feel as you do about a god. But each time you explain, it's just sad, because if there is no god, you give some kind of god way too much of your time and energy.

I truly am sorry for your loss and pain, and do hope that there could come a day for you that comfort and peace could be fully realized in love. I can imagine on this day that your mother would want you to feel wrapped in love. May the love you and your mom shared lead you to comfort and peace. Happy Birthday! -Claudia

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evrlastinggodstopper

The letter I wrote was written by an atheist from one of the atheist forums I visit. A while ago, there was a poll asking, "If there was proof of a God existing, would you worship or praise it?" 100 percent of the people there responded, "absolutely not (I was proudly one of them)". That post received total agreement and praise on that site. Remember, these are all atheists answering a hypothetical question. Reading it, provided tremendous comfort to find people with like-minded beliefs. Like me, none of them are filled with bitterness, hatred, or anger because of it. I was hoping my friend Maria Celeste or another grieving atheist would read this and respond because they would understand. You obviously don't understand and your mischaracterization of that copied letter with emotions that were never the point, was the last thing I wanted or hoping for. Therefore, on a very tough day for me, your response is not appreciated(plus being wrong about me)and it's sad that you felt the need to give it. I really wish theists would stay on the believers board. It would make my posting experience far more pleasant.

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mariaceleste

Dear Everlasting,

Happy Birthday! I didn't forget your birthday. I remember when you posted last March your birthday. Last year I didn't wish you happy birthday, I posted as a Guest, because I didn't remember my password, and you didn't respond to me, so I thought you didn't want to speak to me.

I'm sad when you say you are alone, I didn't come here to correct anybody, I just hope that you know I'm here for you and are not alone. I'm sure your mother would want you to be happy, especially today on your birthday. Do something nice for yourself. Take care.

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evrlastinggodstopper

Dear Maria Celeste,

I'm happy to hear from you. I didn't know you had been posting on this forum since last year. For choosing to come here today and post specifically remembering that it is my birthday was special. Thank you. You are a true a friend.

Perhaps when you posted as a guest last year, I might not have returned to the forum for a while so I didn't see your birthday wishes. Otherwise, I would definitely had responded. For that I am very sorry. I would never want to give you the impression that I did not want to speak to you. You've been the one person who has consistently offered me compassion, love, and friendship without any judgements. My converstations and interactions with you have been wonderful and has meant so much to me. Unfortunately, I got a very disturbung response earlier from another poster judging me wrongly which did depress me. Your response however was uplifting and made my birthday a bit more pleasant. Again, thank you. I will definitely try to be good to myself today in my mom's memory. Your good advice is very much appreciated. Take care and I hope to talk to you again soon.

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4everjoeysmom

I truly am sorry E. I just hoped for you that on today, this special day for you, that you would be able to be wrapped in the love of your mom most of all, above anything else, because I know that is truly what matters most to you. I'm sorry. No matter what my beliefs are, I still have the capacity to truly care for hurting people, no matter what they believe. Indelibly you don't care to hear from anyone outside of your circle, and I will take that to heart. I am truly sad for you... bye.

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evrlastinggodstopper

If you had just wished for me to try and have a good day and other positive sentiments, I would have offered you a very warm response thanking you for that compassion. However, you made judgements about me and what I'm feeling. Unfortunately, I have received those type of responses from theists so many times in the past which has gotten me very upset. That's why I only post exclusively on this nonbelievers board so I can avoid it. It's sad that you chose my birthday to make such mischaracterized judgements. I'm just very thankful that my good friend Maria Celeste replied with her warmth and made no such judgements. It took away the hurt from the previous post you made.

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4everjoeysmom

I undertand. And as I said with deepest sentiment, I am truly very sorry. It was not my intent and I regret that I made you feel bad. Please forgive me. I do sincerely wish you a happy birthday filled with love and memories of wonderful birthdays past celebrated with your mom. It's good to have a friend also that brings you comfort. I am grateful that she brought you uplifting sentiments when I failed so miserably to do that...

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evrlastinggodstopper

I accept your apology. We all make mistakes. I have so many tremendous memories and experiences that me and my mom shared together. It's just the pain of missing her which tends to override those memories(memories can never be enough. I'll always want her alive and with me). Every day I miss my mom more than I could possibly describe. But there are very special days on the calendar with increased significance that makes the loss of my mom hurt even more. Today (my birthday) is one of those very rough days. I can't ignore the meaning of days such as today. I can only try to get through it as best I can.

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4everjoeysmom

I know what you mean about the memories just never being enough. I'm in the reverse situation. My son died in July last year. I hate the way he died. He had too much to drink and wandered away from the group he was with...wasn't being served anymore at the tavern. They hung out and drank on his dime, and he wound up a block down the road at the railroad tracks--hung out waiting, had a few smokes, passed out there and was literally run over by a freight train. My heart aches so much over that huge mistake he made, and now he isn;t here anymore to celebrate birthdays or anything. Joey and I had a very special relationship, much like what you've described about your mom and you. I can't say I know exactly what you feel, but I know on the other side of a similar loss I too have those similar significant days that just blow me away with sadness and the longing to have him here. I miss him every day.

You've shared how special your mom is and was to you, and I deeply hope you know how special you were to her too. If the roles were reversed with me and my son I would want him to know too how much I loved him, and would hope that especially on those significant days he could feel that love still living on in his heart. I wish you still had her here too. Everlasting, I hope that now as evening begins you are able to relax and do something nice for yourself in honor of how special this day was for your mother. I'm sure she cherished you! Peace, Claudia

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evrlastinggodstopper

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your son. My heart goes out to you. To have such a tragic accident like that take place must have been so difficult. Any loss of someone you love is emotionally unbearable. But when it happens so fast and unexpected, it hits you like a ton of bricks even harder. My mother collapsed one morning and couldn't get up. I called 911 to take her to the Hospital. They ran tests and found that she had cancer of the colon that had spread to several parts of her body. The doctors said she was terminal and that she had just three months to live. It turned out to be just three weeks as I stayed with her night and day in the hospital and never went home. I knew the seriousness of her illness and she was not going to face it alone. I never left her side. Meanwhile, my heart completely broke knowing I would lose her. It didn't happen as instantly as the loss of your son but it did happen very fast (just three weeks).

I do know how special I was to my mom. Every day she told me she loved me so I'd never forget it. I haven't. She told me many times "You are my heart and you are my life." She told me in the hospital, as I held her hand, that "the best decision she ever made was to have me and she couldn't imagine what her life would have been like if she never had me." I was her pride and joy whom she constantly bragged about to others. Actually, I do have a brother but we're not very close. Sometimes when she introduced me to others, she would say, "I have another son but this is my heart" as she put her arms around me. She also told others that "I was the best son that any woman could ever have." Those quotes I will always remember and cherish. We were inseparable and always there for each other (especially on days like today). Although I take anti-depressants to help me function daily and I see a therapist/pychologist once a week to talk (since my mom has been gone I haven't had anyone to really confide in and talk to otherwise), the hurt of missing her will always be there. As you said with regarding yourself, there are days where the pain of missing just floods back and is more intense. For me, today has been one of those days. Thanks though for sharing your story and offering compassion and understanding.

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4everjoeysmom

It sounds like you had the best mom in the world, E. And I hope I don't make you more sad by telling you that you are so very fortunate to have had such a wonderful and loving mom. And she was so fortunate to have you by her side for every moment of that difficult time. By your loving words about your mother, I can see why she was so proud of you. Hang in there, and know that there are people that truly care how you feel.

Thank you for your kind words and condolences. Joey was my heart too, and having someone so special not here anymore is just so hard. I'm glad you gave me another chance to share and to wish you peace for today. Your sentiments about your mom touched me deeply. You helped me today to think on the fact that even though I didn't get to say goodbye to my son, I truly know how much he loved me. Thank you for that. Take care of yourself.

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mariaceleste

Dear Everlasting.

You are right, I do understand, the letter. I also understand you would rather know there is no God that causes all the pain and suffering in the world, instead of believing there is a God and causes all these problems, we have in the world. I also understand the need to express it, you have that right, and repeatedly you have said this is a I don't believe God forum.

I've learned through the years, let people express themselves, you can learn from one another. Also, I've learned never be to sure of yourself because you can be wrong, not just God, any subject. Take care

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mariaceleste

Dear Everlasting,

That's a good question, I wouldn't worship a God like that. I'm like you, I don't believe something just because the majority does. Speaking of majority, I read and heard, the majority of the world's population believes in a God, I don't care, but I don't believe that. I don't see it, then the majority of the world be in better shape if the majority of the people loved God. People have told me they don't believe, because people would look down on them.

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mariaceleste

Everlasting,

What I was saying is many people have told me they don't believe in a God, but

if they admit they don't believe, they will be hated and descriminated against, like they are some kind of a criminal. But even if people don't tell me, I can see it for myself, in their behaviour. That's why I hate it when people critisize or look down on someone like you, or me who are being ourself, while they are not being themselves. When I tell people I don't believe in God there jaw drops and their eyes pop out, then they don't want to talk to me anymore.

It's like the word atheist is a criminal word, a crime has been committed, I think the worse crime that can be committed is the many killings of people, not to say you are an atheist. Ok, thanks for listening, take good care of yourself.

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Young E-Published writer who has lost her mother, father, pets, friends, babies and many significant others is putting the finishing touches on a table book which captures the humorous and sometimes inappropriate remarks that children and adults make when choosing what to say to someone who has suffered the loss of a Parent, Spouse, Lover, Friendship, Pet, Child or Business Partnership is seeking your contribution today.

These stories are not exclusive to death as loss can include those who have moved away from us either physically or emotionally. We are NOT seeking stories relating to the loss of jobs, homes or other personal property.

Painful memories when shared in a safe environment can often be soul healers so we hope you'll take the time to share with our understanding group.

When replying, please include your first name, age and the subject of the loss on the subject line:

i.e. LOSS OF PARENT or LOSS OF CHILD, etc.

Please fill out a survey here:

http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB226E49J9JZG

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Send your responses to:

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Many thanks,

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Hi all,

I am new to this site, just stumbled across it and this is the first forum that jumped out at me. When I was twelve, my brother died in a dirt-bike accident, he was eleven. I had, had premonitions of his death, but being so young, I did not understand them at the time, but when I got older I recalled these overwhelming premonitions and realized what they were. I grew up thinking that the worst thing that could ever happen, had happened and I thought that "God" surely would spare my anymore hardship. Ten years after my brother, my seventeen year old cousin was coming home from his homecoming dance and hit a tree. We were very close, he had filled that "brother" spot in my heart. Two weeks later, my other cousin who was nineteen, died in a car wreck, he also had been much like a brother to me. It was then that I stopped believing in God.

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I used to believe I had faith. I used to believe in God.

I don't anymore. Anyone that watches they're child suffer needlessly for no reason starts to question.

If there is a God then tell me why my daughter was born with a defect that no one can cure or even prevent. Explain to me again why the girl next door who did drugs and drank the whole time she was pregnant had a healthy little girl?

And why my daughter was born with a bad heart and no one to blame? It's just a defect it just happens. Yeah Right, sure.

Why we were in that intensive care unit I saw children sick and dying and most of them " Just Because" They were that one in a million who was born with a defect or a disease.

Where's God?

I have been told over and over since she died that God gave his only son.

Ok that's the point " He gave his only son" I DID NOT! I was not given that option No one asked me if I wanted to give my daughter?

God loves us? hmmm yeah right.

If there is a God then he isn't doing his job.

I want my daughter back and the bible and all the priests and God are not going to bring her back.

No matter how much you pray, or beg or cry or even scream the fact remains that my precious baby is dead. And no one can tell me that believing in something that never helped me is going to heal me.

God doesn't exsist. He's pretend so people can have something to blame when things don't go they're way.

sTARR

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evrlastinggodstopper

Hi Guest, welcome to the forum. First, I'd like to say that I am so very sorry for all the close loved ones you have lost. My heart goes out to you. I give you a strong, heartfelt internet hug. Thank you for sharing with us your heartbreaking story. A few years ago, I lost my mom who was everything to me. We were so very close and loved each other more than words could ever say. I have no real close family and am alone most of the time. I always had serious doubts about the existence of God. After losing my mother I developed a deep depression which I take medication. It hurt so very much and still does. Every day I combat hardships and struggle to survive as best as I can. I realized no God who loved and cared about me would've either caused my mother to have cancer or let her die. So, I totally understand how you feel because I don't believe in the existence of any God or Gods either. And I never will. Since we have much in common, I'd like to have further dialogue with you in the future. Take care.

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evrlastinggodstopper

Wazastarr, welcome to the forum. You brought up so many excellent points and I greatly admire your beliefs and conclusions. The cruel suffering you and your daughter endured is inexcusable and should make people realize there can't be a God. My mother, whom I love with all my heart, died a few years ago. I helplessly and heartbreakingly watched her suffer in both the intensive care and critical care units of the hospital. Meanwhile, I had passed by rooms of the hospital where people were on respirators, ventilators, had tubes inserted throughout their bodies, hooked up to other machines while being unconscious and unresponsive. These tragedies show that faith and belief in the supernatural are indeed false and worthless. And these nightmarish incidents happen to families every day as we speak. I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. My heart goes out to you and I give you a heartfelt internet hug. Your approach to the question of God I feel is the right one and I agree with. Like you, I miss my mother so terribly and would give anything if she was alive today. I could beg, pray and cry and know that some god won't change that outcome because he doesn't exist. While it's so very hard to go on without my mom, I have some peace in knowing in my mind and heart that some God doesn't cause or choose not to prevent devastating losses because he doesn't exist. Without that complete lack of what I perceive as illogical, irrational faith, I couldn't have any peace and would be far more of an emotional mess. I now 100% reject such unprovable nonsense as faith, belief in a God, the bible, religion, etc. and has resulted positively in making me a much better person. Everytime I have something awful occur in my life, I just keep telling myself that there is nobody to blame because God doesn't exist. Painful events just happen. That attitude does help. I thank you so very much for sharing your thoughts and feelings which I definitely can relate to. Take care and I hope to have future dialogue with you.

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Thank you for sounding so reasonable. Ive been told over and over that this is just a stage I'm going through and I'll get over it.

I just find it so hard to believe in something that makes us feel so much pain and for what>? So we can die happy? Big deal we're dying, Noone goes " oh, yeah can't wait to die!"

And I know I sound bitter but that's what I am.

I was brought up in the church and even when I was little I asked too many questions and everyone just told that's what faith is, Believing without proof.

But I can't, If I can't see it, Feel it, or touch it, It's not real.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My mother is and was my strength through loosing my daughter and helping my family. She hasn't believed in God for a long time but she never pressurred me she left me to find my own way and make my own decisions. I don't ever want to loose her I know everyone dies and I would like to believe I'll see her again but I don't even believe that anymore.

And by that way I do like to think that who ever comes up with all this medical crap is a Sadist and likes people to suffer a little more before they die.

Anyway that's my rant for the day.

Starr

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Dear evrlastinggodstopper,

I just read your open letter to God and it's awesome!

Thanks for writing on behalf of everybody here, it saves us alot of time!

Clap, clap, clap!!!

 

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evrlastinggodstopper

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in a while because I try to stay really busy. That's how I get through each day. Anyway, since my mother died, this particular week has been especially rough. Why? My mom's birthday is November 23. Each year, her birthday is either right on Thanksgiving Day or days before or afterwards. Thanksgiving was always my personally favorite holiday and I always made it a point to combine that celebration with celebrating my mother's birthday making it an extra-special time. I always so much enjoyed and looked forward to this week when my mom was alive. Now, when it comes around each year, I just dread it, avoid it and hope it passes by quickly. Again, this year, I will do my best to stay busy and do the same as I have done in previous years since my mom has been gone. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and Friday is my mom's birthday. So it is an extremely difficult time for me. As for the past six years, I will be very much alone on both those days. I see that there is a specifc forum for those to share their painful feelings without their loved ones on holidays who they miss so very much called "coping With The Holidays". The reason why I didn't post it there is because I thoroughly reject belief in any god or gods. I was afraid that someone there might have made some god or religious sentiments that I personally find offensive. Since this is an exclusively "I Don't believe there is a god" forum for atheists and agnostics to converse and share their nonbelief in the existence of a god applied to the loss of their special family member, I felt there would be less likely of any god sentiments in response which would have hurt me even more during this painfully difficult time adding to my grief. I am very sensitive and I just don't want any unnecessary altercation or aggravation. I am sad enough and it hurts tremendously being without my mom. But knowing what this week had meant on the calendar hits home for me causing more pain.

However, I am grateful for having the oppotunity to pour out my thoughts and feelings regarding the heartbreaking, tragic loss of my mom on this nonbelief in a god forum. It is the only grief site that has such a feature for atheists and agnostics. I am also pleased that more atheists and agnostics have found this board. It is comforting to know that I will receive no proselytizing here and I'm among like-minded friends.

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everlastinggodstopper - hear what you say and am sorry the holidays come at the same time as your Mums birthday.  Its hard enough to lose your parent but to have a celebration day around the same time makes it harder.

The god belief thing I have found is a personal choice.  I was raised with Church of Enland faith as a child, lost it as a young nurse and have never really given it much thought. I will admit I was really pissed off with a GOD (?) with such an odd way of showing his love (?) by taking some and leaving others and don't get me started on the suffering stuff!  It took a long time for me to just let and let live.  I don't bother him he don't bother me.  However, with that in mind, those who have made their connection, power to them, just don't try and reconnect with me!

Even coming here, the sites I post  on, I have yet to met anyone who focuses on the GOD thing over the devestation of losing someone.  Many may offer prayers etc.. but for me I take that to mean they acknowledge we have all lost and they are thinking of others during their own time of loss.

I hope one day your memories of your mum give you breathing space that eases the pain of losing her.

Blessed be....Trudi 

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4everjoeysmom

Everlasting,  I am thinking of you today as you spend today, your mother's birthday without her here.  I can only imagine how very sad and lonely yesterday and today have been for you.  I'm so sorry, and I do wish for you to feel a little comfort knowing how much she loved you.  Though nothing can bring her back, what you've shared is priceless and something to treasure.  Peace, Claudia

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Everlasting, my dad died the night before Thanksgiving. It has always been a hard holiday for my family so I understand what you are saying. I hope you got through ok. I think it's great that you have this board to express yourslef on. MJ

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Dear Everlasting,

I will also remember you, and your mother's birthday on Nov. 23.  My birthday also is in November.  May your mother's bithday be filled with the wonderful memories you shared with a loving mother, something I didn't have. You are a very lucky person to have known the love of a mother. bye for now, take care.

Love, Mariaceleste

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Not only do I not believe in a god, I also don't believe in most people. I don't know how people can say they believe in a god, and when I see people go to church in my community, they don't even make eye- contact with people not even say a hello, a good-morning. That's very low if you ask me. I'd be embarassed to say I'm godly and my actions does not match it. Because after all actions speak louder than words. I hate all talk people and no action. Well, this is my message for today, thank you for listening.                                                                             

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evrlastinggodstopper

[user=10608]mariaceleste[/user] wrote:

Not only do I not believe in a god, I also don't believe in most people. I don't know how people can say they believe in a god, and when I see people go to church in my community, they don't even make eye- contact with people not even say a hello, a good-morning. That's very low if you ask me. I'd be embarassed to say I'm godly and my actions does not match it. Because after all actions speak louder than words. I hate all talk people and no action. Well, this is my message for today, thank you for listening.                                                                             

Hi, Maria:

As you know, the way I try so hard to cope with my mom's loss is to stay busy so I haven't posted in awhile. I came here specifically today because today is one of the most painful days on the calendar for me. It is March 27, my birthday. My mom always made a major fuss about birthdays and special occasions. She never forgot my birthday and had always taken me out to dinner at a restaurant of my choice. Today, is really rough and magnifies the painful loneliness of being without her even more. How I wish I could hear her wish me a happy birthday. How I wish I could have a conversation with my mom and give her a hug and kiss. But, as with every other day of my life, the cruel reality is the fact that those interactions can never happen. Today, I'll just go to work remaining very busy with my mind occupied. Then, I'll come home to an empty home, have a quiet dinner and try to go to sleep hoping the day will end quickly (no different than from any other day). I will always miss my mom so very much. She was a very special woman and the most wonderful mother anyone could possibly have in their life. I have an enormous hole, void in my life that can never be filled. My heart and mind will always heartbreakingly hurt without her. That will never change as the reality of death is cruelly forever. I just try to do what I can survive. I have no close family. I do have a brother but we're not that close and he never spends much time with me. My life is a struggle and I suffer from depression which I take prescribed anti-depression medication for my condition. However, the excruciating pain of knowing the significance of today and without my mom here to share it with me makes me extremely sad even with this medication. I so very much dread this day, March 27, my birthday. I just will try to cope and make it through in one piece. Working today does help as it will not only keep me busy but make the day go by quicker. It is a very difficult day for me which I hurt so much without my mom and am heavily crying on the inside.

Through this emotional pain, the one thing that does help is my non-belief in the existence of a god. I believe that the lack of evidence or proof of any supernatural existence does provide me with some comfort. Besides, even the thought of a god existing is extremely nauseating and repugnant to me. One of the atheist books that I have highly recommended previously is "God is no Great: How Religion Poisons Everything:. While there are some atheists who don't believe in a god because of the lack of evidence, they still wish otherwise that it were true. Hitchens celebrates the fact that god doesn't exist. I do too. I can't imagine the existence of a god so cruel to create a system called death where he takes loved ones away from their families causing them the ultimate grief and pain. I can't imagine the existence of a god so cruel to watch suffering of millions from cancer, other devastating dieases, hunger, and other major catastrophes (hurricanes, tornadoes) while doing nothing to prevent them and not helping anyone. That god would be the ultimate evil. It gives me such peace of mind knowing how such an illogical remote possibility due to the lack of proof evidence that any god would exist. I try to remember that every day and it does help. My mind, heart and conscience could never live with a faith-based belief system. Although it personally offends me that others continue to believe despite the painful losses and tragedies in their own lives, they of course have the freedom to do so. Everyone has the right to cope (in their own way) believing what they want and should never be denied such freedom. However, I will always reject such a belief and proudly live each day free from religion, god-belief, and religious doctrine and dogma.

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My 17yr old only son killed himself thanksgiving weekend 07. He was wanted and loved and cared for.... we never saw it coming. The last few months of my life have been miserable with the family barely hanging on. Christmas day I was alone.. my wife and daughter went to visit her mom who needed support. Having been raised with religion, I was surprised to find myself having a new thought that I had never realized before. Jesus killed himself, he Died By Cop. His friends tried to save him but he refused and instead had a last supper. With my son dead less than a month I was blown away to find that something I had never thought of was now known to me. There is no God. No father could allow what Ive been through to happen. Jesus was just a human like the rest of us. Neveragain

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alwaysmyjennifer

neveragiain, please dont feel this way. My daughter Jennifer was abducted and raped and murdered. Pllease don't feel this way. I went through a terrible time of being angry at God for letting my Jenni go through such a thing. I will pray for your heart every day that you will find comfort. I will pray for your peace of mind. I know what you feel. It's not abandonment. It's pain. You're a parent who lost a child, the most precious gift in life. We have both lost something dear to our hearts. I will not cease to pray for you. Mark

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wiccanangel

I read your post and my heart goes out to you. I am so sorry about what happened to your daughter Jennifer. May it help to know that when a loved one udnergoes a horrible death, they are welcomed into Heaven quicker than all the others. someone was waiting for her on the other side, and she is always with you.

With hope,

Wiccan Angel

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wiccanangel

May it help to know that although God may be elusive at times, he is here somewhere with you. The circumstances surrounding your son's death are tragic...to say the least. May it comfort you to know that his pain is over now and he can move on to the other side. It is okay to not believe at times, we all doubt our faith. But someday you will find a sign that your son is okay and that he is save in God's hands. Hang in there, don't lose faith forever.

Always,

Wiccan Angel

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neveragain

I dont know what to say. I wasnt making this up and was looking for interaction with other non-believers. Im not prepared to convince anyone else what to believe and am not sure that I even could. Please accept my deepest sympathy for your tragedy and loss. I am now an atheist; not really knowing what alse to call myself. Please understand that I dont what to burden anybody with trying to save me. Save your strength for those that can be saved. Thank you, Neveragain.

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neveragain

You make me sound like an idiot. Im smart enough to know that you cant possibly know what you say, wiccanangel... I really didnt expect to have to defend myself. Thats why I wrote to this forum. I assure you that I am as well as I can be; as a father that has lost his only son. I do appreciate your concern. I have many years of being a believer and have read almost everything.  Now for my remaining days in life, I hope to put it all to good use but not as a believer. Please dont think that Im challenging you! Im looking for something that helps me personally; in the conditions I now find myself. I was hoping to discuss surviving without God, as this is my destiny. This forum is my last option; not wanting to stress anyone here at indigo, as most of us here have suffered and lost enough. I take the path where no-one goes... please respect that. If you ever find yourself in my position you know where to find me. Thank you. Neveragain.

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4everjoeysmom

No matter what is believed or not believed here, why do people have to be so mean?  Everyone on this board (or most everyone) has one common thread, a broken heart.  If we feel so compelled to post in a place where we don't agree, is compassion so hard to give (from someone who has faith to another who has none)???????  (Mat 5:44-48)

Note: This post was not meant toward those that find comfort on this thread.  To You, I am sorry for the intrusion and for your loss and pain.  I do not mean to cause you more anguish.  I probably will get some backlash, but I want to say this one thing.  Maria Celeste recently made a comment about how she noticed that those who "have religion" of some sort act worse toward others than many who don't believe.  When people pop in here with antagonistic words, it strongly supports her statement, and I find great sadness in that.....  True, I am a believer, but I have friends who are not, and though I wish differently for them, I love them despite our differences.  Not all who have faith are so ugly.........  It's not pity that brought me to visit this thread even earlier on, but a genuine sadness and compassion for those here who have the deep pain of losing someone they love so much.  Whether believer or not, it's life changing and heart shattering, and I pray for us all.  Respectfully, ~Claudia (4everJoeysMom)

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alwaysmyjennifer

neveragain, believe mel, I know the place you're coming from. My very beautiful 21 year old daughter was raped and beaten to death 12 years ago. I miss Jennifer more than anyone  can put into words. I miss her so much, I've thought of tossing my faith. But, I had to ask myself if it would do me any good. She's in Heaven. I'm not. I just want to see her again. i don't care who I gotta go through to see Jenni. She's MY daughter. You're a dad, so you understand. I had to ask myself if it was worth chuckin' all I knew to be true in my faith and then losing out on seeing my Jennifer. She is my whole reason for living. As a father, I know your pain. Our pain is like no other in life or eternity. But, for our children, dont give up on what you know to be true. In time, you'll see the most precious gift in your life agiain, your child. I'm sure of it. Just hold onto your faith. Mark Ya need to talk, you have permission to bypass the forum and use my email. I'm here for you.

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mariaceleste

I was under the impression,  this forum is for expressions of non-belief.  I'm entitled to my beliefs/opinion, and non-belief. They are just as valuable as anbody who visits here.

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This thread always puzzles me.  I guess its like many things in life and beyond...peoples perceptions will give various responses.  For me I guess this thread related to those who have lost or never have a specific belief in God.  Its for those who have other opinions/beliefs and faith(?), its not for the purpose of debate or religious indoctrination.

I have said many many many times before on other threads, more power to those who have religious faith and beliefs. We should not discredit or disrespect those who have found Jesus.  Just as they should respect that there are those who post on this thread that don't have their beliefs.

There are now threads dedicated to those with strong feelings and religious beliefs. I may be wrong, but I don't think non believers post on those threads.   

This thread should be to allow people to share beliefs and experiences devoid of scripture, organised faith or 'traditional' beliefs, how that loss may have changed them and yes even their beliefs.

Take Care - As Claudia says, we all came here borne of the same pain...how we deal with it is as individual as each loss can be........Trudi

 

 

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alwaysmyjennifer

neveragain, I do not ever want you to feel like an idiiot. Please do not feel this way. I don't want anyone ganging up on you here. You're and I are on even ground here. I'm just a dad who lost my child. I'm sorry. I am NOT trying to tell you what to believe about God. I just know what happened with me. She was taken from my by some jerk who  beat her to death with a steel pipe, that is after he kidnapped her and raped her. It makes me sick thinking of what he did to my little girl. Please just take time for yourself. Give your heart time to heal. Atheist or not, my friend, I'm praying for you. If you need to talk, and you don't want to use this cluttered highway, please write to my email. I promise I won't try to "convert" you. Mark

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[user=12073]alwaysmyjennifer[/user] wrote:

neveragain, I do not ever want you to feel like an idiiot. Please do not feel this way. I don't want anyone ganging up on you here. You're and I are on even ground here. I'm just a dad who lost my child. I'm sorry. I am NOT trying to tell you what to believe about God. I just know what happened with me. She was taken from my by some jerk who  beat her to death with a steel pipe, that is after he kidnapped her and raped her. It makes me sick thinking of what he did to my little girl. Please just take time for yourself. Give your heart time to heal. Atheist or not, my friend, I'm praying for you. If you need to talk, and you don't want to use this cluttered highway, please write to my email. I promise I won't try to "convert" you. Mark

Mark - Well said.  The essence of being here sometimes gets lost in the clutter.

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neveragain

Alwaysmyjennifer, I am so sorry for what happened to your daughter; I will also pray for you... I was asking wiccanangle to back off; not you. I would not go to a believers forum, and tell every one that they will never see their loved ones again, because there is no heaven. I just have to say, IM NOT HAPPY AND I DONT LOVE JESUS. I have just had enough of hearing how great it is that my son is in heaven, and God loves me. I have just heard enough. What I havent heard is how to live in this world without lying to myself, about things I know nothing about. I did not give up my faith, it was transcended to a new level. For me, the religion I once new, will have to be blended with the new reality I find myself in. There is no other way! I take the path where no-one goes... neveragain.

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alwaysmyjennifer

neveragain, thank you for thinking of me and my family through this. I know the empty feelings since losing Jenni. Nothing comes close to describing the pain we feel as parents. I'm sorry for this. After losing her, I became very angry at God and I felt my faith was nearly useless. My firstborn, my beautiful daughter was taken from me by a monster. If I may say it like this, God created us emotional beings. I believe that by doing this, He understands and gives us latitude when we grieve. After all, we're not robotic with no feelings. We're loving, worrying, doting parents. Isn't that why she's called my daughter? Cuz I dote over her?

If I can give you any advice, my friend, please take very good care of yourself through each day and moment. Give yourself a little time each day to remember and grieve and most of all, to cry. Healing takes time. I won't ask you to pick up your faith again, but do you think it would help any if you told God just how deeply hurt and angry you feel? There are stages of grieving. Please take your time with each. This is your personal journey. If you like reading, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross wrote several books that are helpful. One has a great description of these stages.

As we journey through grieving, we find at first that things in life don't seem to fit. Be patient. As you continue the journey of healing, you'll find that life seems to make more sense again. It's like a natural part of the healing process. Things happen in due time.

I'm here for you. If you need to talk outside of here, you may write me at my email, bluesbassist72@yahoo.com. My thoughts and prayers are with you through your time of sorrow. I could only pray neither of us had to go through this. Mark

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neveragain

My friend. I cant be angry with a God I do not believe in. Please understand that. There is much about me that you dont know. When I said I would pray for you, and everyone else... I meant I will think of you and remember your story. I already feel guarded talking to someone who has suffered as much as you because Im inclined to use your own experience to make my point, and that I should not do, or Ill end up like others we know. I take the path where no-one goes and that no-one returns. Its probably best if you dont join me on this journey...I dont believe it will do you any good and possibly will cause more pain... No religion, no God, no happy endings, no justice... the only angels and demons are the people around me. Our conversations are causing me some mild stress; dont take it personally, I respect you and kinda of like you, but the truth is, I relate more to what happened to your beautiful daughter than what you personally, (Dad) are going through. The suicide of my only son has forever changed the world I live in. This can not be undone. Time is breath. Neveragain.

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