Just listen

[Carol34]

This is what I wish I had the guts to say to people:

Please listen to me when I talk.  My pain is real, and it's deeper than any pain I've experienced.  Things that used to not bother me, that aren't remotely related to my husband's death, can send me into a deep, dark place very easily.  And sometimes, I just need to talk about it.

I don't want to be rude, but when I tell you how bad my day is, or how much I hurt, I don't want to hear about your problems.  I do care about you , but can we talk about them another time?  I don't need to hear stories about how your co-workers dealt with a loss.  And, although I understand the love of a pet, please don't compare your sick dog with my dead husband. 

Please don't try to "fix" what's wrong with me.  You can't.  Your quotes that you find on the Internet are nice and I appreciate them, but they aren't magic.  They don't make everything all better.  Don't tell me re-invent myself.  I am in pain, and can barely make it out of bed some days.  Joining groups, starting a hobby, and meeting new people are not things I'm interested in right now.

I know you might be uncomfortable, hearing about my pain.  I see the look on your face, and hear the change in the tone of your voice if we're on the phone, when I start to cry.  But I need to talk to someone, and I need them to listen.  Not change the subject because this is awkward for them.  Not make suggestions about what I "need to do".  But listen.  Hold my hand.  Put an arm around me.  Or, if we're on the phone, just let me talk. 

My pain is real and I need to express it.  I'm home alone 90% of the time.  With nobody to talk to all day, I dwell on things, which makes them worse.  Please be there for me if I need you.  Just listen.

 

[Lost7]

Cmp34 

I acknowledge your pain and how real and deep and hard it is. I am listening. I am praying for you.

Blessings Lost7 

[KayC]

Very well put!  This could be framed as an article for others going through this, for this is all too common.  People need to know what NOT to say/do as well as what to do/say.  (((HUGS)))

 

In fact I have bookmarked this thread as What NOT to say to someone in Grief.  Thank you for putting it to pen.

[PLin]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:50 AM, cmp34 said:

Please don't try to "fix" what's wrong with me.  You can't.  Your quotes that you find on the Internet are nice and I appreciate them, but they aren't magic.  They don't make everything all better.  Don't tell me re-invent myself.  I am in pain, and can barely make it out of bed some days.  Joining groups, starting a hobby, and meeting new people are not things I'm interested in right now.

cmp,

 

This is just SO true!! My middle son (the one I would have considered the most emotionally connected' has turned out to be a fixer. He is hurting because I am hurting, I get that. (My husband wasn't his dad). He just wants me not to hurt. I have explained to him that keeping busy (or any other solution he offers) is not the solution to my grief. He can't seem to stop offering suggestions. I take it lightly because it is coming from a place of love with him. I find I have isolated myself from a lot of people for exactly the reasons you list. It's funny, one of the very first, if not the first post I made here in February was exactly about what you have described. The well-meaning people only make us feel worse. It is so disappointing. We either have to harden ourselves to insensitive comments or isolate - both lousy choices for grievers. 

 

[BohoKat]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:50 AM, cmp34 said:

Please don't try to "fix" what's wrong with me.  You can't.

On 10/17/2022 at 9:50 AM, cmp34 said:

Not make suggestions about what I "need to do".  But listen

11 hours ago, KayC said:

In fact I have bookmarked this thread as What NOT to say to someone in Grief

@cmp34 @KayC You guys have hit the nail on the head! Cmp, sorry you have to be in this very difficult situation. Something that works for me sometimes if I have the energy and/or brainpower is the old communication technique of specifying, “I don’t need you to fix anything, I just need to vent out my pain, anger, whatever applies.” It is hard to be so explicit, but it lets your listener know, whether or not they choose to accommodate you. It works…sometimes. Peace, BohoKat 

[steveb1]

cmp34  … that was very well said and beautifully written. 

[KayC]

11 hours ago, BohoKat said:

“I don’t need you to fix anything, I just need to vent out my pain, anger, whatever applies.” It is hard to be so explicit, but it lets your listener know, whether or not they choose to accommodate you.

Great idea!  It's hard to think of these things when your brain is foggy...thanks fore that!

[Carol34]

Thank you to all of you who commented and reacted to my post.  Normally, I have a hard time putting my thoughts down so that they make sense.  But I had just hung up from a phone call with my younger sister.  I told her about how much I've enjoyed going to my granddaughter's softball games. Then I told her I started feeling sad when I saw the other grandparents (in pairs) watching their granddaughters.  I also told her that I really got depressed when other parents/grandparents around me were talking about going out to eat after the game, when I have to carefully plan each weekly grocery trip so that I can buy enough food to make cheap meals for the week.  I really needed her to listen, but she jumped in and started saying that she's lonely too, and can't afford things she wants.  Then she totally changed the subject, and we never got back to my issues. When the call was over, I felt even more alone.  And that's when I created my post.

BohoKat, I used to use the "I don't need you to fix this..." strategy when I would talk to my husband about things that were on my mind.  It took me several years to realize I had to tell him this. He used to tell me, "I'm a maintenance man!  My brain is programmed to fix things!"  Your post made me smile/cry thinking about that.  Thank you!

 

[widower2]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:56 AM, KayC said:

People need to know what NOT to say/do as well as what to do/say.  

Amen. And I fear this will come off like me trying to toot my own horn - I'm not - but I elaborated on this on the web site I made here FWIW: https://bill5454.wixsite.com/griefhelp/know-someone-grieving

[KayC]

3 hours ago, cmp34 said:

"I'm a maintenance man!  My brain is programmed to fix things!" 

I've found men tend to be fixers.  But I catch myself being that way too...esp. after 17 years of being on my own, the only one here to come up with solutions and fix things.   I apologize if/when I've done this to any of you.  I try to be mindful of it but have caught myself (after the fact)...

3 hours ago, widower2 said:

https://bill5454.wixsite.com/griefhelp/know-someone-grieving

Thank you, another one I've saved!

[Ronni_W]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:56 AM, KayC said:

People need to know what NOT to say/do as well as what to do/say.  (((HUGS)))

In fact I have bookmarked this thread as What NOT to say to someone in Grief.  Thank you for putting it to pen.

cmp34, thank you SO much for posting this. It really got me to thinking about all sorts of things.

Mostly. It is that part of what's missing in our education system's syllabus is teaching about loss and grief, and what our bereaved friends, family and loved ones need -- and do NOT need -- when they go through their own losses and bereavements. Not just death, but also divorce, loss of a job, etc. Even loss of a beloved pet.   How I'm starting to come to see it is that it is NOT that they do not care or are not compassionate; but they simply do not have any personal experience with which to help them 'comparison-understand'. They have absolutely no frame of reference.

We're possibly asking for or hoping or even sometimes expecting so much more from our friends, family and loved ones than they have any idea and even have any hope of having any idea -- but not because they don't want to, or don't care, or are 'heartless' or 'cold' or 'disinterested'. They just don't know. They're just not educated about loss and grief and bereavement; they're just not "professionally trained". (And even the ones who are "professionally trained" leave a helluva lot to be desired, in my own experience dealing with these so-called "grief experts and counselors".)

I did have a very open conversation with one of my friends -- "Why don't you call me?"   He said, "I really just don't know what to say."  I answered, "Just say whatever comes into your mind and heart, and *if* you happen to say something that doesn't sit right with me at the time, I'll tell you. Okay? Fair deal?"   And so, we've had to just love each other enough to, together, navigate and walk through this bloody unknown-to-either-of-us minefield and war-zone. Together -- he needs me to help and support him in his role, as much as I just need him to "be there" for me. It isn't fair on my part, to just expect him to know what to do or say, when to do or say it, and how I need/want him to do it, all to perfectly fit with and suit my ever-changing needs, thoughts and feelings.

He's been willing to walk it with me, even though he feels totally out of his depth, knowledge, understanding, ability to "properly" help and support me. His main thing is that he doesn't want to 'screw-up' and make it any worse for me. I so love him for this. So, I also have to teach him how, when and if *I* need things; and kindly and gently tell him what I need, and when I need it, and when he is 'screwing up'.

It is not easy for them, but in a totally, totally different way than it is not easy for us. They also need our love, patience and understanding. Is what I've also come to start to realize.

Love and hugs, and strength and comfort, to all my fellow grievers...AND to all their loved ones, 'inner-circle members' and support systems, also.   Ronni

[KayC]

2 hours ago, Ronni_W said:

I did have a very open conversation with one of my friends -- "Why don't you call me?"   He said, "I really just don't know what to say."  I answered, "Just say whatever comes into your mind and heart, and *if* you happen to say something that doesn't sit right with me at the time, I'll tell you. Okay? Fair deal?"

Very wise!

[Ronni_W]

1 hour ago, KayC said:

Very wise!

No, not really at all. "Loving". I'll take 'loving', but not "wise".

I was thinking about it, and wondering if, in my own sense of loss and grief and bereavement, it also made me selfish -- in the sense that I wasn't putting myself       into the next person's shoes; and just making my own feelings and needs and trauma and "WTFs???" as the only things that are of utmost importance and priority, not only for myself but also for everyone else on this planet. It's such an effin' mess of an effin' minefield and war zone, ain't it?

[KayC]

I'd say don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing what we say, we HAVE to be selfish and put our own needs ahead in early grief...by early I mean first few years!  This isn't over and done with any time soon.

 

[Ronni_W]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:57 AM, KayC said:

I'd say don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing what we say, we HAVE to be selfish and put our own needs ahead in early grief...by early I mean first few years!  This isn't over and done with any time soon.

Dearest KayC,

Thank you for this! It's exactly what I've been working on -- to be *lovingly selfish* (is the best term that comes to me, right now), but while also being "lovingly considerate" of others.

Sort of...how you demonstrate and role-model here in this forum. 💓. A 'healthy, positive, supportive-of-all-concerned-or-impacted' balance.  Love and hugs to you, KayC.  Ronni

[steveb1]

2 hours ago, Ronni_W said:

Sort of...how you demonstrate and role-model here in this forum. 💓. A 'healthy, positive, supportive-of-all-concerned-or-impacted' balance.  Love and hugs to you, KayC.  Ronni

Ditto!  KayC truly is a wonderful and kind person.  

[KayC]

15 hours ago, Ronni_W said:

Dearest KayC,

Thank you for this! It's exactly what I've been working on -- to be *lovingly selfish* (is the best term that comes to me, right now), but while also being "lovingly considerate" of others.

Sort of...how you demonstrate and role-model here in this forum. 💓. A 'healthy, positive, supportive-of-all-concerned-or-impacted' balance.  Love and hugs to you, KayC.  Ronni

Thank you for this, I needed to read it yesterday, I was going through a hard time after someone's attack on me.    We're all human!  But this is a bit of encouragement I needed and really appreciate, so thank you!

13 hours ago, steveb1 said:

Ditto!  KayC truly is a wonderful and kind person.  

Thank you!