I wouldn't want my partner to have gone through this

[Gail 8588]

I have read in several posts, that as terrible as this grief journey is, that the surviving partner is glad that their loved one did not have to experience the pain of being left behind.  That they would not want their love to feel this terrible grief.  Sometimes implying that it would have been even harder for their loved one to endure.

I have never felt that way.  I have always believed John was much stronger than I, that he was more capable of dealing with adversity than I.  If there was ever an emergency, people would be in much better shape if John was there to deal with it than if I was the one present. 

I know that if I had died before John, he would have grieved my death, but I don't think it would have been nearly so devastating for him as it has been for me.  

I am not implying that I loved him more than he loved me.  I don't feel that way at all.  I know he felt as much for me as I do for him.  I just think his coping skills were so much stronger than mine.  I imagine that he might have channelled his grief into his creative talents, writing music in my memory, writing a book, any number of outlets. 

I have struggled for so long just to keep breathing. Trying to not lose my mind.  It's been really hard for me. 

I was just wondering if there are others on this forum  that feel as I do, that this grief journey has been harder on you than it would have been on your partner?

Not that we have any control over any of it.

 

I will add that I do feel that I gave my love a tremendously valuable gift, of being by his side through his end of life journey.  I know he was comforted by my presence and love.  I am glad to have given him that gift. 

Gail

[ccoflove]

I feel my partner was also better equipped and more resilient than I am. He lost his son 4 years before we met and didnt speak much about it, I never saw him grieve. He said photos were too painful and tucked them away. He was strong and silent type about all the adversity he faced.  He kept a positive outlook which always had a way of cheering me up when I was down and a great sense of humor. I wonder how he would handle it if the situation were reversed. Ive noticed it seems men are quicker to find new mates so I wonder if he would have found someone else by 2.5 years out.

[jmmosley53]

I do not know how my husband would dealt with my death.  He never wanted to talk about stuff like that and would joke around or avoid answering such questions.  

It is so hard to tell, I know that my husband was much better at compartmentalizing than I am.  But I also know he felt hurts very deeply.  

I would not want him to suffer at all, not even for a minute.

[Perro J]

This is such a hard question to take on. I've thought of it before. I have no doubt that she loved me as deeply, if not more so, as I loved her. If I had died she would grieve in the same depth as I have.

Yet she still had her own dreams, aspirations, family...and a future planned out with me. She lost so much more than me. She lost all of that. She lost everything. She lost her life.

If I could lay down my own life and bring her back healthy. I would do it. She deserves to be here more than I do. As much as the grief hurts, I believe she would feel it, cry, grieve, but ultimately recover from it - and do it faster than I can. She deserved so much better than what she got.

[KayC]

I suppose this is different for everyone but I do feel it would have been harder on George because of a lot of factors I don't care to go into but that said, it sure doesn't make it any easier on us!

[Sparky1]

My wife had a lot of limitations at the end. Even though she would have been financially well off because of my death, she would have struggled. I only keep wishing that we had gone together at the same time.

[Yoli]

Going together seems like it would be whole lot kinder.

[steveb]

5 hours ago, KayC said:

I suppose this is different for everyone but I do feel it would have been harder on George because of a lot of factors I don't care to go into but that said, it sure doesn't make it any easier on us!

I feel the same way about Chong.  Like you said KayC, it certainly doesn’t make it any easier.

[Mark loves Sandra]

@Gail 8588 @ccoflove @Yoli @jmmosley53

Ladies,

There seems to be a perception that males recover faster, or are better able to manage the loss, or somehow just deal with it better.   Let me state with absolute certainty that's not the case.  Losing Sandra has destroyed my life. I cry virtually every day -- sometimes uncontrollably.  Not very masculine (per our societal norms), but it is what it is.  I ponder suicide frequently.  Unless your male significant others didn't actually love you deeply (and from what you've written that's not the case) -- then damn sure they would have been just as distraught as you are now.  It doesn't matter if you're a guy or a gal -- if you love someone deeply then losing that love will devastate you in a way you didn't think possible.  The life you had, the life you intended -- all of that goes up in smoke when your loved one dies and it rips your guts out no matter your gender.

I dearly wish I could be stoic and "manly" and compartmentalize this and move on and whatever.  But I'm unable.  And had I died instead of Sandra, she'd be the exact same puddle of agony that I am.

It's just horrible for all of us.  Just horrible.

Oh, and @Perro J, I strongly suspect you're very wrong.  From what you've written about your relationship, your significant other would be exactly where you are (devastated), and wouldn't "recover" any faster.  When someone loves you "with an intensity I never thought possible" -- well . . . . that person isn't going to do very well if she loses you.  Guaranteed.

--Mark

[Sparky1]

1 hour ago, Mark loves Sandra said:

 I cry virtually every day -- sometimes uncontrollably.  Not very masculine (per our societal norms), but it is what it is.

Mark, don't worry you have company in the crying department. I also cry many times a day, and I don't care about it not being manly. The pain, the emptiness, the feeling of having my heart ripped out, the uneasiness in my bowels, all these feelings are similar for either sex. We're only human, and these feelings will make us cry for the loss of our loved one. 

[Yoli]

1 hour ago, Mark loves Sandra said:

There seems to be a perception that males recover faster, or are better able to manage the loss, or somehow just deal with it better. 

I have never implied or said this. Loss is loss.

[Maria_PI]

My husband was a very deep soul, a sensitive man. He did everything either all the way or none, there was hardly moderation or balance emotionally or even physically with him. He would push himself to the brink. He would probably have died within months if not weeks if I went before him. In a sense I am comforted to know I was there for him during his ordeal and to the end. I am hoping that eased his pain al least a little bit. Once while waiting for him to come out of the urgent unit at the cancer hospital, they brought in an elderly man on a wheelchair, he was quite disoriented and I overheard him saying that there was no one for them to call to take him back, he was all alone. I felt so sad. I think women are generally more resilient, or maybe it’s because women are more likely to ask for help when they need it.


Sent from my iPad using Grieving.com

[Gail 8588]

Mark and any other widowers who took offense, 

Sorry, no offense was intended.  I actually agree with you that this is not a gender based difference.  I just think in some couples there is one person who is more resilient by nature than the other person.  In many relationships, the 2 parties may have very balanced coping/resiliency skills. 

In my marriage, I think John was a stronger person than I in many ways.  His faith was always stronger than mine. He was a big picture guy - focused more on what his role was in helping humanity and healing the earth.  My focus was always on how I could help him. I do think he would have grieved my death deeply, (we were a really good team) but he would have still seen his purpose in life continued.  

I also recognize this is sort of debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  I didn't die first.  No one will ever know how John would have responded to my death.

I guess this sort of looks like I am holding a pity party - "oh poor pitiful me. This has been so much harder on me than it would have been on him."

But I don't really mean it that way.  I have always thought John was stronger than I.  Many decades ago, John and I took the Florida Bar exam  at the same time.  In those years 50% of the people taking the bar failed at least one of the three sections of the exam. I shared with him (after we knew that we both passed)  that during the exam and waiting for the results, I prayed to God that if one of us had to fail a section, let it be John - he could take it better than I could. He just laughed and kissed me and said I was probably right, but that he never thought either of us would fail. 

He lived with so much confidence and determination, I felt and still feel, he could overcome any setback, even my death.  I don't see that as implying that he was any less devoted to me than I was to him.  Nor do I believe that it would always be the woman that is less resilient. It depends on the characteristics of the individual people. 

Gail

 

 

[KayC]

15 hours ago, Mark loves Sandra said:

There seems to be a perception that males recover faster, or are better able to manage the loss, or somehow just deal with it better.

I do NOT feel this way, if anything I think it's harder for men to deal with emotionally.  They may be able to better survive taking care of a place on their own, but emotionally?  They aren't raised/taught in our society to do emotion.  5% of women and 12% of bereaved men remarry

https://www.onlyyouforever.com/remarriage-after-bereavement/#:~:text=Overall rates of remarriage are,women doing so[vi].

But rather than generalize something that is so individual, I think it depends upon the individual involved.  So much comes into play!  I am more used to dealing with finances, making decisions, George definitely had a lot of emotion but was best able to talk with ME about them than his friends.He could figure things out as far as caring for the place whereas I've had to hire a lot done.  He couldn't cook.  He'd have lived on eggs, grilled cheese, and takeout, hardly healthy.  And he would have been so alone!  Not that I wasn't!  But I am able to reach out in my loneliness (until Covid).  He would have found his way here and he was big on forums for learning/expressing.  Perhaps I'm wrong about him, perhaps he would have survived just fine...but I doubt it.

[Mark loves Sandra]

@Yoli and @Gail 8588 and other ladies here,

Whoops, perhaps I didn't phrase my post well.  I wasn't offended (and I doubt the other guys here were either).   What I was trying to convey is that based on my feelings for Sandra, and those passionate feelings detailed by other guys on this forum, and how this is affecting me and them, I'm pretty confident that the men in your lives would be just as devastated as you are.   Was just trying to provide the male perspective on this horror.  That's all.

--Mark

[JohnB]

I've had a similar feeling since Rhonda died.  As horrible as my pain is, part of me is thankful she doesn't have to suffer this pain herself.  One of Rhonda's co-workers lost her spouse a few years ago, and it really hit Rhonda hard, and I remember her saying, "I can't imagine of something were to happen to you.  I just don't know who'd be there to support me."  In that respect, I know she'd have been fine, as my support system (a lot of her long time co-workers) has been tremendous. 

I think this type of feeling is pretty normal.  I hate going through it.  I'd hate her to go through it.  Heck, I hate that anyone has to go through this.  But all we can do is try to find a path forward, however we can.

[steveb]

50 minutes ago, JohnB said:

But all we can do is try to find a path forward, however we can.

You are absolutely right JohnB. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Steve

[KayC]

Part of my thinking was formed by my FIL when my MIL (his wife of 40 years) died of cancer.  One month later he was declaring his love for another woman!  Our family was reeling!  This woman was his companion the rest of his life, many years.

To his credit, he'd been going through anticipatory grief for three years.  It seems he sought to rebuild his life and did not want to be alone.  He never told this woman he loved her, never lived with her, and she was a wonderful woman, but still, it was hard in the beginning and to me she never took the place of my MIL, who was my "mom" and best friend.  But we did grow to love her and accept her as part of his life.

A man can be very lonely.  Maybe that's why the Bible says "It's not good for a man to be alone."  Hmm, it doesn't feel that way much for a woman either.

[LMR]

My husband had said to me on a few occasions that if anything happened to me he would kill himself. That he couldn't live without me. He might not have taken drastic action he would probably have just quit looking after himself, quit taking his meds and let go. 

If he is watching me now he won't be feeling much different seeing how badly I am coping without him. He must be really sad. I don't want him to be hurting like that but I just don't know how to be any other way. I try, but I miss him so much. My whole life now is like I'm just sitting waiting.

[steveb]

LMR, I sincerely hope your pain lessens and that you can get beyond sitting and waiting.  That being said, I totally understand what you are feeling.  There are times that I feel that I’m simply going through the motions. Other times, I can have some pretty good days. At this point in my grief journey, I’ve been reflecting on how I can reduce those “going through the motions” days. My wife wouldn’t want me to live in a constant state of depression.  She sacrificed a lot in helping me get through leukemia.  She would want me live a life that is as fulfilling as possible.  I’m sure your husband would want the same for you. 

[Sparky1]

8 hours ago, LMR said:

My whole life now is like I'm just sitting waiting.

LMR, I totally understand this feeling. Since my wife passed away, life just doesn't have that same spark. I try and keep busy by working and maintaining the house, but the emptiness is always there no matter what I do. Like you, I'm just biding my time until I can be reunited with my wife. That's all I long for.

[KayC]

11 hours ago, LMR said:

My husband had said to me on a few occasions that if anything happened to me he would kill himself. That he couldn't live without me. He might not have taken drastic action he would probably have just quit looking after himself, quit taking his meds and let go. 

If he is watching me now he won't be feeling much different seeing how badly I am coping without him. He must be really sad. I don't want him to be hurting like that but I just don't know how to be any other way. I try, but I miss him so much. My whole life now is like I'm just sitting waiting.

You are doing your best, that's all you can do.  I've told my sister she is committing passive suicide, not putting a gun to her head, just not taking care of herself, not addressing medical issues even though they're part of our genes in our family.  She agreed. 

 

[LMR]

Steveb, Sparky1, KayC thankyou for your support. I come to this site several times a day. I read the posts and cry, for myself and for everyone else who is grieving. I feel bad that I have nothing to offer to help others as I am just floundering around. Coming here relieves some of the loneliness that I feel.

Hugs for you all.

 

[steveb]

LMR, you have everything to offer:). Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise. 
 

Hugs back at ya:)!

[Sparky1]

LMR, your presence on this forum helps out a lot of us, including me. That's one of the best offers you can give. Many hugs to you as well.

[KayC]

20 hours ago, LMR said:

I have nothing to offer to help others as I am just floundering around.

And that is okay.  You are right where you can be expected to be.  You help us all just by showing up, being here.  (((hugs)))

[luckystarhongkong]

My wife was the most intelligent woman I've ever met. She handled our finance and investment, dealt with tenants and owners, negotiated contracts and managed staff of by small business. She grew up poor and had to start working at at early age. She was thus street smart and I handed her all those tasks so I can just focus on my profession.

I am introverted and pessimistic, probably a result of my upbringing in a problematic family. My wife was bright/bubbly and optimistic. We were thus a perfect fit. I always said it would be better if I go first because without me she is more than capable of running our family well. She would have become our daughter best friend and mentor; I can hardly match her in these aspects.  

But life is harsh. She's gone at the worse moment. Recent political turmoils in my city prompt many people to emigrate to UK/Canada/Taiwan. I am near 50 and its a very difficult decision to make. If she was here I am sure we can come up with a solution. I fear nothing with her by my side whatever happens/wherever we are. With her gone I feel very vulnerable and is unable to think let alone make big decision. I fear constantly the future of my daughter would be messed up by my poor judgement.

My daughter once said if only mom could be with her for a few more years until she's 18. On one occasion she asked me why mom didn't keep her promise that she'd be there when she graduates from college/gets married. I don't know how to response. 

[KayC]

Sometimes we make promises we think we'll be able to keep, but life takes that ability from us.

[Gail 8588]

Luckystar, 

I really feel for you as you struggle to find your way.  In another post (9 months) I just wrote about my challenges related to moving my residence, twice.  I won't repeat that story here, but suffice it to say, I didn't handle things very well. 

My husband was the one with confidence, with great people skills, good at negotiating etc.  I have none of that.  I believe everything that anyone says.  Sometimes, I realize afterward that I was naive and taken advantage of.  Often times I don't ever see it until someone explains to me that I was taken advantage of. 

The thought of me having to make all life's decisions now that my husband is gone, is terrifying.  I worry that I will make bad decisions and be left with nothing to sustain me. 

I am now in my 5th year without my husband, and my grief is no longer completely overwhelming my brain.   I am thinking more clearly. I am no longer such a zombie where nothing mattered to me.  But in a way, for me that brings the recognition that I am not, and never was, good at making these sorts of decisions.  I know in the future, I am going to need to rely on help from others who are more skilled (for example if I buy a house again, I will use a realtor who will guide me to get inspections or negotiate). I didn't want to burden my young adult sons, when they were dealing with the loss of their father, but in the future, I will ask them for help.  

For those of us who were in a marriage  where the 2 people have really different skill sets, it is very challenging for the surviving spouse to cope with the loss of all those skills. 

I am not sure this post helps you in anyway, other than to say you are not alone.  All you can do, is do the best you can, and reach out to others for help. 

Wishing you the best.

Gail

[foreverhis]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:15 AM, KayC said:

You are doing your best, that's all you can do.  I've told my sister she is committing passive suicide, not putting a gun to her head, just not taking care of herself, not addressing medical issues even though they're part of our genes in our family.  She agreed. 

 

Argh!  This is what ended up happening to our best friend's dad.  Nothing any of us did helped over time.  Nothing she said to him or the ways she and her brother and the rest of the family tried to get him to at least take steps forward made the slightest difference.  And so he died just a few years later from untreated medical conditions.  Our friend was pretty angry with him that he couldn't even find it in himself to stick around to see his grandchildren grow up for a while, even as she understood that half his life, the best part of it, was missing and so his heart and life had shattered.  It was so hard to watch and harder still to accept that none of us could make those decisions for him.

[luckystarhongkong]

8 hours ago, Gail 8588 said:

I am not sure this post helps you in anyway, other than to say you are not alone.

thanks Gail 8588; the very feeling of not being alone is my only lifeline now. That's very helpful indeed in this living hell. 

[widower2]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:31 PM, Gail 8588 said:

I was just wondering if there are others on this forum  that feel as I do, that this grief journey has been harder on you than it would have been on your partner?

I think so. As you say, it isn't about who loved who more or any such thing. But unlike me, she had family she was close to, and so many friends. One of those people who everybody loved. Yes I know she would have missed me and mourned etc, but she would have had this network of people and being so social a full life still, and I think been much more capable of getting on with her life, if you'll excuse the phrase. I on the other hand am alone in quite a profound way. I don't say that to elicit pity as I don't ask for or need or deserve any. It's just how it is. This house is not a home; it's a prison. But I've earned that, and not complaining. The only reason I would hesitate to swap places is what it would have done to my parents, and the fate of our dog, who being a rescue dog with "issues" I suspect might have been put down well before his time. 

[KayC]

21 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Our friend was pretty angry with him that he couldn't even find it in himself to stick around to see his grandchildren grow up for a while, even as she understood that half his life, the best part of it, was missing and so his heart and life had shattered.

It's depression, I get that, but Peggy has been this way all her life, refusing to deal with things she doesn't want to...now she wants it to all be MY problem, even while I already have my hands full...my hands that have no strength and a lot of pain, literally!  It's not helped my BP, and I finally had to "let go" figuratively.  I will continue to help her to my ability, but frankly, I have my hands full with ME, my medical issues, my place.  I told her this will not all be on my shoulders (as she said), but it will be a FAMILY issue.

Being widowed, I don't think has been harder on me than George, but would have been hard for him in different ways.  I'm good with $, independent, but he'd have had an easier time taking care of the place by himself.  I think being alone and apart from each other would have been very hard on EITHER of us.

 

[foreverhis]

6 hours ago, KayC said:

It's depression, I get that, but Peggy has been this way all her life, refusing to deal with things she doesn't want to...now she wants it to all be MY problem,

Oh heck no!  You've talked about the things you've done to help her, both before and after her husband died.  I know a couple of people like her:  If you ignore something you don't want to deal with, well then, it doesn't really exist.  There is only so much anyone can do to help someone like that.  In your case, you've got more than your own share of burdens and challenges.  I'm glad you told her so.  We're all so proud of you for getting your health conditions under control, getting off medications, etc. that I don't want you to let anyone take that away from you by adding even more to your already heavy load.

6 hours ago, KayC said:

I think being alone and apart from each other would have been very hard on EITHER of us.

That's what I think about John and me too.  It's hard to quantify because some things I'm finding immensely challenging wouldn't have been as difficult for him.  On the flip side, some things I can handle would have given him his own challenges.

[My love]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:06 PM, Sparky1 said:

My wife had a lot of limitations at the end. Even though she would have been financially well off because of my death, she would have struggled. I only keep wishing that we had gone together at the same time.

I feel the same way, still wish we should have gone together...

[Beau]

For us, this is the wrong order of things. I feel it in my bones.

My wife died less than 30 minutes after she delivered our son. The baby of all her dreams. That day was supposed to be the start of her new life as the mother she was meant to be.

If I had died, she would have faced struggles but she would have her boy, and he would have her. And if there is an afterlife, I would know it was the right order of things. 

This is wrong. This is a mistake. 

[luckystarhongkong]

my wife always wished we could grow old and die together; she knew she was very important to me and she wanted to take care of me until the end. Moreover she didn't want to be left behind in this world. Unfortunately that's something we can't control. Things unfolded in the worse order in my opinion. 

[KayC]

My husband didn't even want to talk about retirement yet, he felt he was too busy living and too young...we'd begun an IRA but honestly never thought he'd be taken barely 51.  We had bought the porch swing to "grow old together on."  We enjoyed watching the hummingbirds and deer come while we sat together on it.

[Gail 8588]

Beau, 

I am so very sorry for your loss.  It is certainly the wrong order.  You, your wife, and your son should have had many decades to share. 

In the years to come, you will have the chance to share with your son what a wonderful woman his mom was and how much she loved him. 

I hope you have family and friends you can lean on for support. Come here to vent whenever you need to.  This is so unfair. 

Gail