No answers

[Jaded]

No one responded to my first post here so I figured I would try another. Real question here and be honest please. Many of us say that God has his reasons or we don't know they why behind something that happened. Many of us question why God allowed this to happen, why he allowed our spouse to be taken from us. Being completely honest, do any of you understand the reason now? Those of you who have had years to process, years to heal and years to figure out the why?

[KayC]

Actually, I did.  I'll repost it here.  Sometimes it takes a while for us to respond to all of the posts, I had a funeral to go to today so was out for several hours..  

@Jaded  Hi, welcome here, any time you want to vent, question, or just want to talk with someone who "gets it" this is a safe place to be.

It's been 15 years for me.  At first I did not see how I could live one week without him!  That I have made 15 years is beyond my comprehension but my faith has carried me, belief that we'll be together again, also faith in our relationship...it was built on faith in each other and it continues still in the same way, although sorely tried many-fold over!

I think it's entirely normal and common to question everything we've ever believed in or ascribed to, and in a way that can be a good thing, for when it comes back around, it is all the stronger.  At least that's how it was for me.  At his funeral I sang "It is Well (With my soul) as a statement of that belief...I was in a fog, in shock, my head too clouded to think straight in those early months/years really.  I felt God was a million miles away.  I felt my prayers hit the walls of heaven and bounced back to me.  Where was God?  It was about a year or so later...maybe longer, that I realized He was here carrying me all along.  My questions WHY never were answered, I imagine I wouldn't get it even if someone attempted to answer me.  By the time I am reunited with George, none of the "why" will matter, it will all be a moot point, we'll be together again at last and that's all that will really matter.  I do not "blame God for taking Him" but I don't think He's up there scheming about whose life he can wreck now, rather I believe we live in a fallen world and it's not perfect and our bodies do not last forever...luck of the draw, some last to 100, some don't make it half that long!  I no longer try to make any sense of it.  

All I know is, there is nothing wrong with your questioning or your feelings...our feelings are just that, feelings.  They need no factual basis, they need not make sense, they just are, nothing wrong with us, nothing to judge, but oh how hard they can be for us to contend with sometimes!

My heart goes out to you in this early grief, I wouldn't wish it on anyone!  Sending you wishes for some comfort and peace...we're here to listen and understand and care.

I also want to leave you with an article I wrote of the things I'd found helpful, with the hopes that something in it helps you.

TIPS TO MAKE YOUR WAY THROUGH GRIEF

There's no way to sum up how to go on in a simple easy answer, but I encourage you to read the other threads here, little by little you will learn how to make your way through this.  I do want to give you some pointers though, of some things I've learned on my journey.

• Take one day at a time.  The Bible says each day has enough trouble of it's own, I've found that to be true, so don't bite off more than you can chew.  It can be challenging enough just to tackle today.  I tell myself, I only have to get through today.  Then I get up tomorrow and do it all over again.  To think about the "rest of my life" invites anxiety.
• Don't be afraid, grief may not end but it evolves.  The intensity lessens eventually.
• Visit your doctor.  Tell them about your loss, any troubles sleeping, suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks.  They need to know these things in order to help you through it...this is all part of grief.
• Suicidal thoughts are common in early grief.  If they're reoccurring, call a suicide hotline.  I felt that way early on, but then realized it wasn't that I wanted to die so much as I didn't want to go through what I'd have to face if I lived.  Back to taking a day at a time.  Suicide Hotline - Call 1-800-273-8255
• Give yourself permission to smile.  It is not our grief that binds us to them, but our love, and that continues still.
• Try not to isolate too much.  
• There's a balance to reach between taking time to process our grief, and avoiding it...it's good to find that balance for yourself.  We can't keep so busy as to avoid our grief, it has a way of haunting us, finding us, and demanding we pay attention to it!  Some people set aside time every day to grieve.  I didn't have to, it searched and found me!
• Self-care is extremely important, more so than ever.  That person that would have cared for you is gone, now you're it...learn to be your own best friend, your own advocate, practice self-care.  You'll need it more than ever.
• Recognize that your doctor isn't trained in grief, find a professional grief counselor that is.  We need help finding ourselves through this maze of grief, knowing where to start, etc.  They have not only the knowledge, but the resources.
• In time, consider a grief support group.  If your friends have not been through it themselves, they may not understand what you're going through, it helps to find someone somewhere who DOES "get it". 
• Be patient, give yourself time.  There's no hurry or timetable about cleaning out belongings, etc.  They can wait, you can take a year, ten years, or never deal with it.  It's okay, it's what YOU are comfortable with that matters.  
• Know that what we are comfortable with may change from time to time.  That first couple of years I put his pictures up, took them down, up, down, depending on whether it made me feel better or worse.  Finally, they were up to stay.
• Consider a pet.  Not everyone is a pet fan, but I've found that my dog helps immensely.  It's someone to love, someone to come home to, someone happy to see me, someone that gives me a purpose...I have to come home and feed him.  Besides, they're known to relieve stress.  Well maybe not in the puppy stage when they're chewing up everything, but there's older ones to adopt if you don't relish that stage.
• Make yourself get out now and then.  You may not feel interest in anything, things that interested you before seem to feel flat now.  That's normal.  Push yourself out of your comfort zone just a wee bit now and then.  Eating out alone, going to a movie alone or church alone, all of these things are hard to do at first.  You may feel you flunked at it, cried throughout, that's okay, you did it, you tried, and eventually you get a little better at it.  If I waited until I had someone to do things with I'd be stuck at home a lot.
• Keep coming here.  We've been through it and we're all going through this together.
• Look for joy in every day.  It will be hard to find at first, but in practicing this, it will change your focus so you can embrace what IS rather than merely focusing on what ISN'T.  It teaches you to live in the present and appreciate fully.  You have lost your big joy in life, and all other small joys may seem insignificant in comparison, but rather than compare what used to be to what is, learn the ability to appreciate each and every small thing that comes your way...a rainbow, a phone call from a friend, unexpected money, a stranger smiling at you, whatever the small joy, embrace it.  It's an art that takes practice and is life changing if you continue it.
• Eventually consider volunteering.  It helps us when we're outward focused, it's a win/win.

(((hugs))) Praying for you today.

 

 

[Jaded]

Hi Kay, I appreciate the response. I suppose I was asking because so many people come up to me and say "God has a plan" or "He has a reason, you just don't understand it yet" or the cliche-ic "everything happens for a reason". So my ask was really more to the point of actually saying and wanting to know - Has anyone lost a husband (or wife) and realized the why or realized the reason even after 5 years, 10, 15? My guess is no.

 

[ccoflove]

After 20 months I'm no closer to answering the whys, though I've pondered it and considered every possibility i can imagine. I've accepted I wont know Gods reasons til I join the other side, but it doesnt stop me from still asking. Gods understanding is greater than my own. It feels neat and tidy to have someone or thing to blame for why it happened and it's hard living with out resolution to the big question of why. My blame shifting moves from God, to myself, to the circumstances, to my partner, to no ones fault.

I've taken to watching/reading all the NDE accounts I can to try and understand where he went to, and it has shifted my thinking to a more spiritual side. Some are sent back because it's "not their time" and they havent fulfilled their mission here, some are given a choice to come back and I guess for some it is their time. Most say they are sad to come back here to their Earthly lives, and it makes me feel rejected to think he wouldnt chose me, but I know his body had been tortured enough before the accident that he wouldnt of wanted a life of more bodily pain. Maybe it's a passage for couples to go through to prepare us for an even greater life together. 

Reading C.S. Lewis 'A Grief Observed' pondered the reasons pretty well, it helped ease my pain to read it. I want reread it again.

"God has not been trying an experiment on my faith or love in order to find out their quality. He knew it already. It was I who didn't. In this trial He makes us occupy the dock, the witness box, and the bench all at once. He always knew that my temple was a house of cards. His only way of making me realize the fact was to knock it down."

On neding faith to sustain you through the absence.

"You never know how much you really believe anything until its truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you. It is easy to say you believe a rope to be strong and sound as long as you are merely using it to cord a box. But suppose you had to hang by that rope over a precipice. Wouldn't you then first discover how much you really trusted it?"

For me, like Kay C, my faith in a reunion is what I hold out hope for.

[jwahlquist]

I can’t imagine ever finding a reason or plan behind my husband dying as I don’t really believe that “God” determines everyone’s fate.   Things happen.....there doesn’t have to be a reason. People get sick & die, people are murdered, people commit suicide and people have accidents......life is a fragile thing.   I think people tell themselves it is part of “God’s plan” so they have an explanation for something they otherwise can’t explain.  Or maybe they truly believe it......to each his own.  

[Jaded]

Probably more the latter jwahlquist. I look at it two ways, either God had a reason for taking him or the pondering I've done lately is maybe He isn't there. We don't want to believe the latter necessarily but it would explain. I prayed, I said rosaries, I said novenas, I prayed alone, I prayed in groups. So the answer to my prayers was either no (for then I would ask why) or He isn't there. And if God isn't involved and it's fate then I wonder about the arguments that talk about God knowing everyone's time. Just questions that I have while a thousand thoughts rattle around in my head.

 

[KayC]

18 hours ago, Jaded said:

so many people come up to me and say "God has a plan" or "He has a reason, you just don't understand it yet" or the cliche-ic "everything happens for a reason".

I have not realized the reason for it and it's been 15 years!  I quit asking why as I got no answer.  I trust God knows what He's doing or not doing but honestly don't see Him being behind this.  I never saw it coming.  Cliches do NOT help!  Read here:  You are not alone in your feelings!

http://onlineministries.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/Grief/avoid-cliches.html
http://www.griefspeaks.com/id9.html

@ccoflove I appreciate your response, very well thought out and put.  I too love A Grief Observed, I love CS Lewis.  He gets it!  I have experienced two NDEs myself and in the first one my kids were with me, I was donating blood and they said my BP was borderline but took my blood anyway and that's when they lost me.  No BP, I was up above and saw them working on my body, my two little kids standing there, scared to death! I saw a tunnel with an alluring light I knew I could go to and it was appealing but I did not choose to enter it as I needed to stick around and raise my kids, I could not leave my husband alone to do that by himself.  I went back into my body and they got my BP back.  I've never donated blood since.
The second time was when I had surgery six years ago, they over-anesthetized me because they didn't listen when I tried to tell them they needed to take my weight because I'd lost a lot, the gal was argumentative and I almost lost my life because of it!  My heart stopped on the operating table.  They had me cut open and had to give me thrusts to the chest to get me going again.  My heart continued stopping for two hours after the surgery.  Again I saw the tunnel of light, it was alluring, it beckoned to me...but I saw my dog and kitty at home wondering where mom was and that was enough for me to want to stay!  I tried with all my might, over and over, to stay here and keep going for them, and I made it through that.  The recovery nurse lied to me and told me everything went uneventful.  When I got home I saw the bruising on my chest...my husband died of a heart attack, I knew what that was from!  I confronted her when she called the next day and she retorted, "I saved your life!"  I said, "I appreciate that but I DO NOT APPRECIATE BEING LIED TO!  This is my body, I have a right to know what happened!"  It makes me scared of going under again.  I have told subsequent doctors about it before having any anesthesia administered as a caution.

17 hours ago, jwahlquist said:

I don’t really believe that “God” determines everyone’s fate.   Things happen.....there doesn’t have to be a reason.

This is how I see it, also, otherwise why would they bother telling us "don't smoke" or "eat healthy," "get exercise!"  We are all dealt a hand, it's what we do with it that we have control over but even then, accidents occur for which we have no control and of course genetics figure into that hand we're dealt.

 

8 hours ago, Jaded said:

I wonder about the arguments that talk about God knowing everyone's time.

Knowing everyone's time doesn't mean He CAUSES everyone's death!

[Jaded]

Not talking in terms of causing someone's death. There is a difference between causing and allowing. I never stated that God caused my husband's death but he did allow it

 

[KayC]

That can be just as hard to understand.  I eventually accepted it but it took me a very long time.

I do want to add that we all may come to different conclusions to these questions and that is perfectly alright, just as we all come to our own belief systems.  It can take quite a process before we feel we've reconciled that within ourselves.  I can only tell you what I feel/think/conclude, you have had a different path and teaching and will undoubtedly arrive at different thinking, that's okay, we come to what makes the most sense to us!  We're not a one size fits all! 

 

[Jaded]

Agreed, just asking for opinions. Not really asking for acceptance or agreeance. Just opinions, thoughts and feedback

 

[Rhonda R]

I wish I could say that I have the faith that all of you have.  I feel that no, He didn't take Randy's life but He didn't stop it either.  The death of my mother rocked my faith and the death of my husband shattered it.  I've often asked myself, if He does exist, why does he hate me so much?  What did I do to deserve this?  Then I learned that this wasn't just happening to me, it was happening to so many wonderful people who didn't deserve it either.  I realized I didn't know if I believed anymore.  I banged my head against a wall for a long time and I still have no answers.  The answer is, there is no answer.  I can't think of anything that would justify this or make it okay for me.  The Cliché's of, "It's all a part of God's plan" or "He never gives us more than we can handle" and my personal favorite, "He's in a better place now,"  are just lies everyone tells you to make you feel better but you know what, no one feels better after hearing them.  It this was His plan, I'm sorry, it stinks.  If he thinks he hasn't given me more than I can handle, then he is not paying attention to me at all and doesn't know my soul. Why would someone who loves me enough that He sacrificed His only son, want me to suffer like this?  IF he does exist, he is suffering at my pain.   Anyone who thinks that he is in a better place now should keep it to themselves.  A better place would be here with me, healthy and free of cancer.  My husband didn't want to die.  My husband wanted to stay here with me and grow old together.  That's my thoughts about why.  Either He has absolutely no control over it or He doesn't exist.  I really haven't decided yet.   

[jwahlquist]

2 hours ago, Rhonda R said:

Anyone who thinks that he is in a better place now should keep it to themselves.  A better place would be here with me, healthy and free of cancer.  My husband didn't want to die.  My husband wanted to stay here with me and grow old together.  

I hate this one the most.   My husband got sick unexpectedly and passed away.  Someone said that and I blasted them with both barrels.   I told them that is just something people say to make themselves feel better about the fact that death scares them.   I firmly believe that the best place for my husband to be is with me & his daughter.    Seriously, people say the dumbest things.....none of which are helpful in anyway.   And so many of those empty comments and so hurtful too. 

[Jaded]

Ok so I see there are others who think very much like I do. Oddly, I do take some solace in this. 

[ccoflove]

Thanks @KayC for sharing your experiences. It seems looking down on yourself from above out of your body is the beginning of journey that is common, which as repeatable as this is in NDE experiences convinces me consciousness exists outside of the body. Then a drawing to a warm, loving peaceful light embraces the spirit. All these experiences are vivid and transformative to the experiencer, so I have come to believe there has to be more. You have a big heart, caring for your family and pets and all the care and support you have given others all these years here as a result of what you've been through, you are needed here too so thank you. In that way you bring a little of the other side here which we surely need.

If anyone's interested this site has collected thousands of NDEs from around the world.

https://www.nderf.org/Archives/NDERF_NDEs.html

[KayC]

I agree with you, @foreverhis...the best place in the world to be is together...for you, for me, for all of us.  People say stupid things, they mean well but when these cliches come out of their mouths I picture them saying blah, blah, blah, blah...

Thanks for sharing that @ccoflove will take a look!

[Michelene]

Ernest Hemingway wrote about an out-of-body experience--I think it's in A Farewell to Arms, but it shows up in other writing he did as well. It occurred during WWI for him, and I think it made him afraid to go to sleep. (that his soul would leave his body and travel about). It got me reading "Dead Men Talking" about soldiers' experiences during WWI. I think that latter book is by Michael Tymn. My uncle, a WWII vet, had a NDE, during a heart attack. My cousin (who died in a car accident) apparently met him and forced him to go back to his body. The cousin who told me this story said, "My dad prayed everyday after that."

[Michelene]

On 7/8/2020 at 4:50 PM, jwahlquist said:

I hate this one the most.   My husband got sick unexpectedly and passed away.  Someone said that and I blasted them with both barrels.   I told them that is just something people say to make themselves feel better about the fact that death scares them.   I firmly believe that the best place for my husband to be is with me & his daughter.    Seriously, people say the dumbest things.....none of which are helpful in anyway.   And so many of those empty comments and so hurtful too. 

I took a writing class about grief--it was with Megan Devine called "write your grief" or something like that. One of the prompts on one day was about the stupid stuff people say. Everyone went wild on that one. People don't want to address our pain--it makes them uncomfortable. One of my least favorites was "have a good weekend" after a day of work.Like 2 weeks after I lost my husband. I always wanted to say, "Just what the ffffff do you imagine that would look like for me?"  It still bugs me 2 1/2 years out. I don't even say it to anyone anymore--ever.