Angry about comparisons

[foreverhis]

After more than a year, my dearest lost his fight with cancer.  He had beaten another cancer 15 years ago, so this seemed doubly unfair.  As I'm sure most of you know, it's a challenge just getting up each day and pretending to function.  I'm basically alone with family more than 200 miles away and our daughter and granddaughter 1500 miles away.  Both my husband and I had physical disabilities that had changed our very active and busy personal and professional lives many years ago.  Those changes diminished our circle of friends to only those who truly love us, but only a couple live nearby.  I miss my love so much I can barely breathe most days.  I still talk to him all the time, but I'm not in denial of what happened.  I'm not angry with him because none of what happened was his fault. Today I wanted to ask if anyone else is frustrated and angry about two things. 

The first is how people compare other losses.  We'd been through the deaths of grandparents, parents, a few friends, and well loved pets.  All were difficult and painful, but none compare even a bit with losing my love, my everything.  Even our daughter has said things like, "I'm grieving too."  Of course she is and I've never diminished or dismissed how hard this has been for her.  She and her dad had the kind of relationship that I wish I'd had with my father, but didn't. 

I realize that most people are just trying to show they sympathize, but how do you all handle it?  Do you ignore it and thank them for understanding?  Do you give in to, "Are you out of your mind?  You have no idea what this is like.  I have lost everything, you idiot.  My life has fallen apart." (or words to that effect)?  I confronted our daughter finally and told her one day that I was going to have to stop talking just then if she didn't stop responding to me trying to explain my pain as if it was a competition.  She knows what kind of marriage her dad and I had.  Over the years, she and other family members would comment that they wished their relationships were as close, caring, and content.  Not perfect, of course, because we are imperfect humans, but deeply connected through the best and the worst. To use a cliche, we were soul mates.  How do I or do I even try to get people to stop making ridiculous comparisons?  It's beginning to make me angry, which I do not need right now.  I'm angry enough at myself, the doctors, his genetics, etc.

My second issue is websites, even official ones, that lump "grieving" into a single subject with time lines and expectations.  It came to a head for me this week when I looked at the NIH grief section.  It basically said that after 2 months--2 months!--people should be picking up the pieces and moving on with a new life.  What the...?  It's been 5 months and I feel as if I've barely started to process staring down the road I'm going to have to walk alone.  Why do people, including doctors, feel the need to try to break grief down into tidy little packages?  Our society is terrible at handling death and grief.  It's like we are in denial and need to pretend that "It's all better" as fast as possible so we can get back to ignoring our own mortality. 

How do I find resources that won't tell me I should be on the road to recovery or find "a new normal" or some other platitude that is not helpful, but is hurtful?  I have found a few personal-story articles and a couple of forums like this one, but mostly there don't seem to be resources for middle-aged widows (and widowers) like me.  I have found lots for young widows/widowers and older ones (you know, "normal" age like my grandmother was in her 80s).  A few people I know in our age group seem to have a hard time dealing with me because I'm a nasty reminder that "This could happen to you."  I guess joining this forum (my first) is a step forward. 

Thanks for any advice.

[ModHerc]

@foreverhis,

I am so sorry for you and your wonderful husband.  You are so right, our society is absolutely awful at dealing with death, loss, and grief.  I have found very few resources targeted to people in their 40’s, but have also found that I can apply many of the resources that are available to my own situation.

Websites with hurtful information are all too plentiful I agree.  I think some people just need to pretend that they know something about loss to fool themselves into a false sense of security that they will deal with it better than others when it happens to them.  I would bet whoever wrote that NIH article has never suffered a significant loss, and probably got their research data from others who have not experienced it.  While I don’t wish the anguish of grief on anyone, imagine what they will think when they do have such an experience and go back to read their own drivel.  There are no timelines in grief, anyone who indicates there are simply doesn’t understand.

As for how to handle comparisons of losses, I don’t.  Every loss is different and unique.  There are similar symptoms in many of them, but each has its own story, and significance.  I understand how frustrating it can be, truly.  One of my sister in laws tried to get into a “grief measuring” contest with me.  It was absurd.  I felt like telling her “In the past decade I have slept in her hospital room more times than you called her, and I never once saw your druggie ass visit.  I do remember you stealing her pain medication, and me having to buy her replacement Percocet on the street so she could get some rest that night though.  I am sure you miss her pill bottles terribly”.  In the end I let it slide.  It would have served no purpose other than venting, and it would have done harm to the family.

I would do whatever you feel is healthiest for your own recovery and mental state in such situations.  If you need to release some anger, let em have it with both barrels.  Bear in mind though that such comparisons cannot take away the connection you and your husband had.  Also ask yourself if confronting the offender has any possible positive outcome.

As for resources I think you will find a plethora on this site, but more I think you will find empathic and compassionate people who are sharing this sad journey with you.  I recently posted something that may be of help to you.

Reviewing and reflecting upon what I have done that has helped through my grief journey lead me to create this list.  Everyone’s path through these difficult times is unique, but there are many things that we have in common.  I particularly hope that people fresh to the grief process find it helpful, as well as giving those who are further along on their journey opportunity to examine their own experience.

1.  Take it one day, one moment, one breath at a time. - It is ok to look at the future, particularly if you are having strong moments or days.  When it starts causing anxiety, panic, or discomfort it is important to consciously stop and grapple with grief in smaller, more manageable pieces.

2.  Practice self-care, particularly in the small things. – Your loved one would want you to take care of yourself.  This applies to all aspects of grief, but basic elements in particular.  Eat what you can, sleep when you can, exercise if you can, and drink plenty of water.

3.  Accept help from others when you need it, and help others when you can. -  It is hard at times to accept help.  Grief may make you may feel that you are a burden, or that you aren’t worthy of being helped, both of which are untrue.  People who offer help do so because they want and need to.  It is often part of their grieving process.  If someone offers help without specifics, you may try to think of one small, but concrete thing they can do.  Let them pick up something from the store for you, cook you a meal, or help clean a room.  These are small things, but ones that have solid visible results.  Also remember the "when you can" of helping others.  Helping people helps build a sense of self-worth and purpose, but you have large burdens of your own and don't need to put the weight of the world on your shoulders.

4.  Establish and stick to routines. - This puts order into chaotic lives.  Try to get out of bed every day at the same time.  Set schedules, with alarms in your phone if needed for the basics of life, shopping, caring for pets, eating, or cleaning.

5.  Allow time to grieve. - Ignoring your grief may lead to further problems.  There are times when it is appropriate to try and disguise your emotions and grief, but if you do that for too long it may lead to a setback in your grieving journey.  You may want to add this to your routines, and set one time a day to think about your emotions, loss, and how to cope with it.  Over time you may find you simply know when you need to take time to process your grief.

6.  Before making big changes make sure you have had time to properly think them through. – This seems to go against one day, one moment, one breath at a time, but it is important.  Avoid making any big changes in the first year.  Slow down and make sure what you are doing is good for you, not a reaction to your grief.

7.  Make an effort to try new things. - This is the reverse of establish and stick to routines.  While routines bring order to the chaos, trying new things opens the door to future possibilities.  Start with small things, as simple as changing your routes to and from work or the store.  When you feel comfortable, look at trying large things such as changing long term patterns of behavior that no longer work for your situation.

8.  When you aren't sure what to do, do what feels right for you. – Self-confidence is often damaged by personal loss and grief.  You may stop trusting your instincts and second guess yourself.  Often your instincts are still correct though.  If you don’t feel you are ready for something, listen to that inner voice.  This journey is hard enough, on occasion it is ok to indulge yourself even if it seems selfish to others.

9.  Separate guilt from regrets. -  Regrets are natural, nothing is ever perfect, and we all wish we could do or had done better at times.  Guilt is feeling you have done something wrong and blaming yourself for the situation.  None of us needs blame or condemnation through this process, least of all from ourselves.

10. It is OK to not be OK. – You are going through a very difficult experience.  It is normal to feel panic, anxiety, fear, anger, and depression.  Learn to take those moments for what they are and work through them as slowly as you need to.  If you don't get something the first, fifth, or five thousandth time, that is understandable.  Take your time, regroup and try again.  Anyone who doesn't understand it doesn't matter, and anyone who matters will understand.

11.  Grief can be a part of you without controlling you. – Early in grief it is all you may feel, in ways it may define you.  As you find your way through this grief journey, you will slowly come to points where you can define your grief rather than the other way around.  While you may never be rid of it, you do not have to give it power over you.  In time you can find ways to live with it and find happiness even though grief may still be a part of you.

 12.  When truly lost, seek out an expert, then take and follow their advice.  -  No one knows everything.  If you have car problems, go to a mechanic, if you have health problems, go to a doctor, if you have grief problems seek out a grief counselor.  Asking for, and accepting help doesn’t make you weak in any way.  It gives you the strength of your entire community.

Hoping you find this helpful, and wishing you all the peace and comfort possible

Herc

[KayC]

Comparisons invalidate and aren't recommended.  To each person, their own loss is the greatest!  But looking at it logically, loss of a husband affects every aspect of your life, whereas when my father died, he was no longer in my everyday life and it didn't begin to affect me on the same level as losing my husband did.  With loss of husband, you lost your sexual partner, the person you talked over your day with, the one you spent all your holidays and weekends with, the one you slept with, cuddled with, the one that gave you affirmation and considered you attractive, the one you consulted over home repairs, car repairs, etc., your confidant, the person who did half the chores, brought in half the income, the one that left the garage light on for you, the one who would notice if you made it home or not, the one that took care of the animals when you went away, often the one who fixed things.  He was the one you watched t.v. with and talked over books with.  Do you do all that with your dad?  No.  It's a different loss and it hits us wide scale!

We were supposed to grow old together, that was the plan, we'd even bought the porch swing.  That didn't happen.

I'm very sorry for your loss.  I hope you'll keep coming here.  It helps to know you're heard and that there's some understanding souls here that get it.]

About the timeline...a good grief counselor and hence a good grief site would not expect you to get over it.  Grief is forever although it changes form.  We get used to it, learn to incorporate it into our lives, adjust, but grief does NOT have an expiration date!  I'd take on anyone who'd stoop to saying so!

And two months?  Are they serious!  This tells me they don't know what they're talking about or their relationship was nowhere near on par with the relationship I lost.  It's been 13 years for me and I still think of him and miss him each and every day.  I've learned to live with it, but I will always miss him.

And here's my list of tips that have helped me along the way...

TIPS TO MAKE YOUR WAY THROUGH GRIEF

There's no way to sum up how to go on in a simple easy answer, but I encourage you to read the other threads here, little by little you will learn how to make your way through this.  I do want to give you some pointers though, of some things I've learned on my journey.

• Take one day at a time.  The Bible says each day has enough trouble of it's own, I've found that to be true, so don't bite off more than you can chew.  It can be challenging enough just to tackle today.  I tell myself, I only have to get through today.  Then I get up tomorrow and do it all over again.  To think about the "rest of my life" invites anxiety.
• Don't be afraid, grief may not end but it evolves.  The intensity lessens eventually.
• Visit your doctor.  Tell them about your loss, any troubles sleeping, suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks.  They need to know these things in order to help you through it...this is all part of grief.
• Suicidal thoughts are common in early grief.  If they're reoccurring, call a suicide hotline.  I felt that way early on, but then realized it wasn't that I wanted to die so much as I didn't want to go through what I'd have to face if I lived.  Back to taking a day at a time.  Suicide Hotline - Call 1-800-273-8255
• Give yourself permission to smile.  It is not our grief that binds us to them, but our love, and that continues still.
• Try not to isolate too much.  
• There's a balance to reach between taking time to process our grief, and avoiding it...it's good to find that balance for yourself.  We can't keep so busy as to avoid our grief, it has a way of haunting us, finding us, and demanding we pay attention to it!  Some people set aside time every day to grieve.  I didn't have to, it searched and found me!
• Self-care is extremely important, more so than ever.  That person that would have cared for you is gone, now you're it...learn to be your own best friend, your own advocate, practice self-care.  You'll need it more than ever.
• Recognize that your doctor isn't trained in grief, find a professional grief counselor that is.  We need help finding ourselves through this maze of grief, knowing where to start, etc.  They have not only the knowledge, but the resources.
• In time, consider a grief support group.  If your friends have not been through it themselves, they may not understand what you're going through, it helps to find someone somewhere who DOES "get it". 
• Be patient, give yourself time.  There's no hurry or timetable about cleaning out belongings, etc.  They can wait, you can take a year, ten years, or never deal with it.  It's okay, it's what YOU are comfortable with that matters.  
• Know that what we are comfortable with may change from time to time.  That first couple of years I put his pictures up, took them down, up, down, depending on whether it made me feel better or worse.  Finally, they were up to stay.
• Consider a pet.  Not everyone is a pet fan, but I've found that my dog helps immensely.  It's someone to love, someone to come home to, someone happy to see me, someone that gives me a purpose...I have to come home and feed him.  Besides, they're known to relieve stress.  Well maybe not in the puppy stage when they're chewing up everything, but there's older ones to adopt if you don't relish that stage.
• Make yourself get out now and then.  You may not feel interest in anything, things that interested you before seem to feel flat now.  That's normal.  Push yourself out of your comfort zone just a wee bit now and then.  Eating out alone, going to a movie alone or church alone, all of these things are hard to do at first.  You may feel you flunked at it, cried throughout, that's okay, you did it, you tried, and eventually you get a little better at it.  If I waited until I had someone to do things with I'd be stuck at home a lot.
• Keep coming here.  We've been through it and we're all going through this together.
• Look for joy in every day.  It will be hard to find at first, but in practicing this, it will change your focus so you can embrace what IS rather than merely focusing on what ISN'T.  It teaches you to live in the present and appreciate fully.  You have lost your big joy in life, and all other small joys may seem insignificant in comparison, but rather than compare what used to be to what is, learn the ability to appreciate each and every small thing that comes your way...a rainbow, a phone call from a friend, unexpected money, a stranger smiling at you, whatever the small joy, embrace it.  It's an art that takes practice and is life changing if you continue it.
• Eventually consider volunteering.  It helps us when we're outward focused, it's a win/win.

(((hugs))) Praying for you today.

 

[Moment2moment]

Foreverhis-

I just quit comparing myself to others years ago. It just sets up frustration and there is no point in it. This is on every level, not just bereavement.

My grief is very very private and I don't  expect anyone to understand unless they have been through similar. 

Many good meaning people express concern and for that little acknowledgement I am appreciative.

Beyond that I expect nothing from people. It is easier that way. 

I come here to hear from kindred souls. I have a grief counselor who helps me find balance and perspective, but I doubt that she even has a clue as to what my particular pain consists of.

I am not meaning to sound cold. I am just a very practical person. I went through years of caregiving before my partner's death in hospice and I learned that people often flee from people like us like deer in headlights.

So perhaps I am jaded but truly I do not focus anymore on other's opinion of what I am going through. 

Two month's after she died her sister said to me, "I don't know why you can't get over this. She is at peace!"

I said back, "You try losing your soulmate of 28 years and then tell me how you get over it!" 

That shut her up and right then and there I decided to only talk here and with my grief counselor.

We all are "not convenient" to people like this and all I have to say about that is that one day they may or may not "get it" but in the meantime I just stay away from the topic with them. 

I need to focus on my own self care, not dealing with their responses to me and my loss.

Some mean well, others are just clueless. I have actually said, "I would rather not talk about it."

I just gotta get through that day. That is all I can manage most of the time.

[foreverhis]

Thank you everyone for your kind, thoughtful, and helpful responses.  I'm realizing that just reading them and knowing there are people who "get it" can help ease things a bit.  I'm going to take a bit to process the advice you've given me and see how I can apply it to my own journey.  But I will come back soon.

I think I will continue to try to ignore my inner voice and the urge to tell people they're nuts if they think any loss is like this one.  You are all correct that it would serve no useful purpose and would be detrimental in some cases to make a fuss about it.  I will do my best to let any anger go before it builds up by saying to myself, "Self, let it go. It's not meant to diminish you or your love."  Well, unless someone is truly thoughtless, in which case, I will probably let 'er rip. 

For our daughter, me simply telling her quietly that I refused to sit there on the phone having an "I'm in pain" contest was enough to jar her into thinking and understanding.  She begged me not to stop talking and said she'd just listen.  She did and then we were able to talk more and in depth.  It really helped.  My love was truly a wonderful father, so it has been extremely hard for her.

KayC, you really put in perspective how losing a father is so different from losing a husband.  Thank you. Our daughter said something similar after we talked things through.  One thing she said was (paraphrased), "I get now that I'm used to not seeing him every day, so he's not in my mind every minute.  And I've got my own family and job here to focus on and help me.  You're missing half of every part of your life and you're reminded of it all the time.  I'm sorry, mom."  She really is a treasure; I hope I didn't make it sound otherwise.  It's just that she didn't quite understand at first.

I am so glad I decided to take a chance and join this forum.  I can tell it's going to be a positive in my life and I am grateful.

[KayC]

4 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Well, unless someone is truly thoughtless, in which case, I will probably let 'er rip.

And that's okay too.

4 hours ago, foreverhis said:

One thing she said was (paraphrased), "I get now that I'm used to not seeing him every day, so he's not in my mind every minute.  And I've got my own family and job here to focus on and help me.  You're missing half of every part of your life and you're reminded of it all the time.  I'm sorry, mom." 

And people forget that the person you'd turn to in your grief is your spouse!  We don't have them to help us through this!

I do hope you'll continue to come here to read and post.  A forum like this literally saved my life over 13 years ago.  It's the reason I'm still here because I want to be there for others the way some were there for me when I most needed it.  Right now I'm fortunate to have a lot of widowed friends that get it, but when my husband died, I was 52 and none of my friends was widowed...in addition, they all disappeared on me!

[ModHerc]

@foreverhis,

I am so sorry you had reason to find this forum.  No one here deserves the horrible burden of grief.  I am glad you found us though, and hope that sharing the path with compassionate and understanding people will bring you some comfort.

I would like to add one more thing, it is natural and okay to be angry.  I am two years into this journey now, and still have flares of anger and depression.  I try to deal with them in healthy ways, but make sure I do let them out at some point.  Turning the other cheek is often the best course of action, but once you are in a safe environment where you can express yourself, make sure to get it out.  I usually vent with a friend, but have also come here to get some of it out.  And if you do happen to slip and let go on someone who may or may not deserve, don't worry about it.  If they understand grief, they will understand why you are upset, and if they don't then they really shouldn't have been comparing in the first place.

[Jamiei]

I always tell myself they don’t have a clue of how awful this pain is! But I was probably that person before this happened to me. I had my sister lose her dog last month and she said to me now we know how you feel! My other sister didn’t even come to the funeral because her son had a wrestling tournament!  I have to just worry about myself and try to get through my days. It’s very lonely but I guess it’s our new life and just have to deal with it! 

[ModHerc]

51 minutes ago, Jamiei said:

I always tell myself they don’t have a clue of how awful this pain is! But I was probably that person before this happened to me. I had my sister lose her dog last month and she said to me now we know how you feel!

Some of the things people can say just make me shake my head.  I have a coworker who twice now has told me how much fun I should have over my three day weekends as a "single" guy.  Third time is the charm, if he does it again, I'm going to tell him I am using one of the days to go decorate my wifes grave.  That should shut him up.

[Jamiei]

4 minutes ago, Herc said:

Some of the things people can say just make me shake my head.  I have a coworker who twice now has told me how much fun I should have over my three day weekends as a "single" guy.  Third time is the charm, if he does it again, I'm going to tell him I am using one of the days to go decorate my wifes grave.  That should shut him up.

Oh my gosh I can’t believe that clown would actually say that!! You have way more restraint then me. 

[ModHerc]

He meant well, they just don't get it.  I think a lot of it does have to do with age groups as @foreverhis mentioned in the original post.  There aren't that many resources for 40 something widow and widowers, because there just aren't as many of us.

That also means that others in our peer group don't have much experience with people who have experienced this type of loss.  Many of them have no experience at all with someone truly influential to their lives passing.  Most of the people my age still have both parents, and both their spouses parents, let alone the spouse themselves.

  It took me a long time to grasp and come to terms with my loss, it will take those who clumsily try to support us even longer, because it isn't a focus of their daily lives.  It is an interesting point though.  Perhaps I should confront people more often, gently if possible, and let them know what they say is hurtful and how.  Not so much for myself, but to start helping them learn for the next person who needs support.

[ForgetMeNot150]

@Herc

Your posts have so much wisdom and are so helpful to me - thank you. I just read the one above and burst into tears as this is so true. 

Being at work gives me something to do, but also makes me feel even more lonely as everyone else has partners despite being older than me. This has been highlighted lately as they have been asking for numbers for the Christmas party next week so has been at the back of my mind. They are so lovely and have organised something different this year so I can take the girls and don't have to go alone, but I am not really looking forward to it as it will be the first thing that I've been to which Craig would have attended with me.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with anyone telling me to "get over it" yet, but your post has helped me to understand why I feel like such an "outsider" and don't seem to fit in anymore.

This forum has saved me, has given me somewhere where I feel I belong and helped to reduce the incredible sense of loneliness that threatens to overwhelm me sometimes. 

Thank you (and everyone else on here) as you help me so much just by sharing what you have been through. 

Ps. If anyone did try to tell me to get over it or move on they would get a short, sharp shock. Maybe that is why no one has, as anyone who knows me knows I speak my mind and stand up for myself! They definitely wouldn't do it a second time!  

[foreverhis]

Moment2moment: 

I want to thank you so much for sharing obviously painful and personal stories with me.  What a horrid person her sister is.  I'm glad you let her have it!  She was not just insensitive, she was rude and mean.  One thing I figured out long before my sweetie got sick was that no one has the same loss or grief, not even when we might think it's comparable.  Your advice about keeping our own counsel is a good one.  I think that's partly what I'm doing when I talk to my husband (only at home, which is most of the time).  It's so hard to go anywhere.  I'm not sure if it's that I know I'll come home and he won't be there or because it takes so much energy to focus.  Maybe a bit of both.  Like you, I am a rather private person.  My husband I were not into social media or sharing intimate details of our lives with the world (or thinking anyone would care about the minutia of our days).  It is so hard that my main support system, my only love, is what was taken from me.  I'd rather talk to him at home than spill my guts in some support group.

At least my family has tried to be understanding and no one has asked when I'm going to start getting over it or anything like that  Well, my brother was thoughtless, but not mean, and he's always been thoughtless.  Our best friends, who are sister and brother to us, have been amazing.  I feel very comfortable with them.  We've been through everything together and they are both grieving deeply.  So when she kind of pleaded with me to take the train and come to Thanksgiving if I could, I did.  She made sure it was only immediate family, not the usual big crowd, and I did okay because my family just let me be however I needed to be.  I trained home the day that would have been our 35th anniversary.  It was horrible, but I planned it figuring it would be better than sobbing at home all day.

 It's kind of funny, but when I first started looking around the internet, I wasn't looking for validation, just help.  But the truth is that finding some validation has helped.  I really appreciate the time and effort of everyone here.

 

[crackerjack4u]

@foreverhis I'm so sorry for your loss, my heart breaks for you.  

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, foreverhis said:

Both my husband and I had physical disabilities that had changed our very active and busy personal and professional lives many years ago.  Those changes diminished our circle of friends to only those who truly love us, but only a couple live nearby.

My husband and I also both were disabled, and that in itself seems to put us in a different category too. Like you and your husband, we had already lost so many of our healthy, active, and work friends many years ago, and had only each other to communicate with, and depend upon. Most of my family lives many miles away too, and that makes a big difference in the amount of continuous face to face support you have during this difficult time.

You've come to a wonderful forum here though.  The people here are all so kind, and caring, and they have a good understanding of the types of things that the people who come here are experiencing (although everyone's grief is different), but they are going through something similar in their own journey, so that does help a lot.      

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:03 AM, foreverhis said:

One thing she said was (paraphrased), "I get now that I'm used to not seeing him every day, so he's not in my mind every minute.  And I've got my own family and job here to focus on and help me.  You're missing half of every part of your life and you're reminded of it all the time.  I'm sorry, mom."

The part about missing half of every part of your life, and being reminded of it all the time, is so true, and was such an excellent analysis made by your daughter. I think it helps sum up why so many of us who have lost a spouse tend to grieve the way that we do. It's as if the pain, grief, etc. tends to be so wide spread into every aspect of our life.     

My sister said the other day that losing our mom, 15 yrs ago this Dec 23rd, was unbearable to her, and that she still has issues dealing with it at times, so she can't even imagine how difficult it is going to be when she loses her spouse-(her husband is also very ill, so she knows that day is coming). I told her that when the time arrives for her to go through that horrible journey, that even though she's nearly 1000 miles away, I would be there for her just like I was when our mom passed away. I'll also be recommending this forum to her as well. 

If it's alright with you, foreverhis, I think I'll read to her the wise words of your daughter, and perhaps it may help her better understand.   Wishing you peace and strength during your journey, and again I'm truly sorry for your loss.          

[ModHerc]

I know how deeply we are all grieving, and I don’t in any way mean to diminish that, but I would really advise caution on comparisons of grief.  There are so many grief journeys and so many facets to each that to lay out blanket statements of which is “worse” can do unintended harm.

This is not directed at anyone in this thread, or on this forum.  I don’t think anyone here would intentionally cause another who was going through grief more pain.  One of the problems with comparisons though is that they often rely on assumptions.  I have considered the subject myself in the past often.  Human nature requires us to quantify and qualify things so we can better understand them.  If you have to envision me talking to someone specific on this subject, think of it as a conversation with myself. 

On the surface it would seem that losing a spouse/partner is the most life affecting loss.  At the same time the specifics of each situation change the equation.  What about a special needs child who lost a care giver parent.  For that matter what about parents who lose a child.  That is losing the living embodiment of yourself.  Does this mean that intrinsically parents grief is more pertinent and important than a spouses?

The loss of a friend obviously isn’t as life affecting.  But what if that friend had been a roommate for over a decade?  Someone who had been to your families on holidays, and whose family knew and treated you the same.  Someone you saw everyday and whose loss would affect your daily life.

Do we break out the scales at that point and measure whose loss is worse?  What is the standard unit of measurement for grief?  Further even if we could measure whose grief was “worse”, should we?  What if my grief were found to be lacking?  Now not only do I have to feel as awful about life as I already do, in addition I have to deal with knowing that others are out there grieving more “properly” than I am.

Grief is grief.  It is absolutely devastating and heartbreaking regardless of the type of relationship or source that it stems from.  I hope my heart is large enough to give solace and comfort to anyone who is going through this pain regardless of the root cause.  As KayC said much earlier in this thread, comparisons invalidate grief and aren’t recommended.

[KayC]

That's true, Herc.  I know someone in her 50s who looked after her dad his last ten years, was in his everyday life, he was her go-to person, and now, two years after his death, she's still having a very hard time with his absence.  What affects our grief is many things, the daily interaction we had, dependency on them for things they did, the quality of relationship, how in-depth we were with each other, our own personalities and coping abilities, I would venture to say even our placement in the family affects our grief!  But it doesn't matter how much we grieve or the other person grieves, I've said this before and repeat it again, to each person, their loss is the greatest!  While a spouse can be one of the hardest losses to adjust to as it affects our life on every aspect, it isn't necessarily true for everyone as it is for us here.  I know someone else whose husband was an alcoholic and he made her life a living hell,he beat her, yelled at her, demeaned her...when he died, she did not mourn, she felt relief.  It's been ab out forty years now, she never remarried, she enjoys her freedom and independence.  Now she is old and blind and she has a caregiver's cottage on her place and hires someone to drive her around and do the things she cannot in exchange for free rent.  We're all unique, so are our relationships, and thus our grief.

[foreverhis]

On 12/8/2018 at 7:01 PM, crackerjack4u said:

@foreverhis I'm so sorry for your loss, my heart breaks for you.  

My husband and I also both were disabled, and that in itself seems to put us in a different category too. Like you and your husband, we had already lost so many of our healthy, active, and work friends many years ago, and had only each other to communicate with, and depend upon. Most of my family lives many miles away too, and that makes a big difference in the amount of continuous face to face support you have during this difficult time.

You've come to a wonderful forum here though.  The people here are all so kind, and caring, and they have a good understanding of the types of things that the people who come here are experiencing (although everyone's grief is different), but they are going through something similar in their own journey, so that does help a lot.      

Thank you so much for your kindness.

I'm sorry that you also know how hard this is when you've already had difficult health and life challenges.  We lost many friends who could not handle how we had changed.  The small circle of true friends we have now are precious, especially our best friends of 30 years.  They have been amazing.  One day we were talking and I mentioned I'd had a really bad several days. Two hours later, I got an email from her saying, "If you're up to it, we're coming to you day after to tomorrow for whatever you need and however we can help."  They are grieving pretty hard too, so having each other has been some comfort.  They'd already planned to move close by when they retire in a few years, but it's pretty difficult now being alone most of the time.  On one hand, I'm lonely, but on the other, the only person I really want is my husband.  He is the one I could always count on and who could count on me.  No wonder I feel shaky; my support has been taken away.

My love and I always felt we were fortunate to have each other.  We've known people who weren't so lucky.  I think one reason is that we were best friends.  We started as friends of friends, then friends, and then one day, something just clicked.  After our first date, neither of us went out with anyone else.  Even when we were young and healthy with active lives and many friends, we still preferred each other's company to anyone else's.  One day after his home health checkup, we were sitting on the sofa kind of snugged together, teasing each other, and just being ourselves.  His nurse said she couldn't remember ever working with a couple who was so connected and so content during such a horrible time.  My hubby blurted out, "That's because we don't just love each other, we actually still like each other."

Quote

The part about missing half of every part of your life, and being reminded of it all the time, is so true, and was such an excellent analysis made by your daughter. I think it helps sum up why so many of us who have lost a spouse tend to grieve the way that we do. It's as if the pain, grief, etc. tends to be so wide spread into every aspect of our life.     

My sister said the other day that losing our mom, 15 yrs ago this Dec 23rd, was unbearable to her, and that she still has issues dealing with it at times, so she can't even imagine how difficult it is going to be when she loses her spouse-(her husband is also very ill, so she knows that day is coming). I told her that when the time arrives for her to go through that horrible journey, that even though she's nearly 1000 miles away, I would be there for her just like I was when our mom passed away. I'll also be recommending this forum to her as well. 

If it's alright with you, foreverhis, I think I'll read to her the wise words of your daughter, and perhaps it may help her better understand.   Wishing you peace and strength during your journey, and again I'm truly sorry for your loss.          

If you think my daughter's words would be helpful, please do share them.  It made me feel good that she had been able to put her own grief aside and really try to understand.  I'm sorry your sister will be starting her own journey.  It's good that you will be there for her, regardless of distance.  That's another thing I've talked to my daughter about.  People need to know that a quick phone call, email, even a text to say, "I'm here. I love you." can make all the difference in letting me know I'm not forgotten or swept aside.  I think this forum could be a tremendous help for her.  It's already helping me.

I wish you that same peace and strength that you have generously sent to me.  I am so sorry for the loss of your husband too.  At least we know we are not completely alone and that there are people, total strangers, who are willing to offer their support, caring, strength, and advice.

[foreverhis]

On 12/8/2018 at 8:13 PM, Herc said:

I know how deeply we are all grieving, and I don’t in any way mean to diminish that, but I would really advise caution on comparisons of grief.  There are so many grief journeys and so many facets to each that to lay out blanket statements of which is “worse” can do unintended harm.

Exactly.  That's why I would never compare my pain to anyone else's and why it was really starting to tick me off when other's would try to make comparisons.  All I can say is that my grief is the worst for me.  But it still does irk me when someone says, "Oh I lost my whatever, so I know how you feel," especially if it's a pet.  We've loved our pets as family and losing them was painful, but it's nothing like losing the love of my life.  No, they don't know how I feel, but I don't claim to know how they feel either.  I have resolved to simply let those irritations go because those feelings certainly are not helpful to me.  And what's best for me is all that really counts these days.  (Yep, that's a bit selfish, I know, but I've decided that's okay for now too.)

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

[Spengler]

Most people do not understand. But, they will when it happens to them, when they lose a spouse, a partner, or a close family member.

[ModHerc]

5 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Exactly.  That's why I would never compare my pain to anyone else's and why it was really starting to tick me off when other's would try to make comparisons.  All I can say is that my grief is the worst for me.  But it still does irk me when someone says, "Oh I lost my whatever, so I know how you feel," especially if it's a pet.  We've loved our pets as family and losing them was painful, but it's nothing like losing the love of my life.  No, they don't know how I feel, but I don't claim to know how they feel either.  I have resolved to simply let those irritations go because those feelings certainly are not helpful to me.  And what's best for me is all that really counts these days.  (Yep, that's a bit selfish, I know, but I've decided that's okay for now too.)

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

It’s not selfish at all.  Before we can care for others we have to find a way to care for ourselves.  We all have plenty to work through, and it will take time.

I found that letting the problems in my day to day life tie in to my grief gave them far too much power and control over me.  Now I try to make sure I separate them as best I can.  Whatever challenges face me, whatever other people say or do, it doesn’t affect or influence the relationship I had and still have with my wife.

I shouldn’t let those thing trigger a grief episode, by sparking fear, anger, or depression.  Of course as with almost everything, it is much easier to say it than to do it and I still fail at it all too often.  Wishing you fewer irksome challenges, just because we can deal with them doesn’t mean we should have to,

Herc

[foreverhis]

6 hours ago, Herc said:

I shouldn’t let those thing trigger a grief episode, by sparking fear, anger, or depression.  Of course as with almost everything, it is much easier to say it than to do it and I still fail at it all too often.  Wishing you fewer irksome challenges, just because we can deal with them doesn’t mean we should have to, 

Thanks for that.  No doubt there will be many irksome and downright infuriating challenges as we all go along.  We're all simply imperfect humans trying to make sense of the senseless.  I have to admit I've always had a bit of a temper.  Not too much, but enough that I can be a bit snappish (maybe even bitchy) at times.  It's something I've worked on for a long time and I have learned to let things go for the most part.  I'm trying to do that now with insensitive or rude people, but as you say, it's easier to say than to do.  I've got no emotional resources left to care what others think right now, but I agree that anger is destructive.  I'm grateful for the advice and validation I've already found here.  I think it will help me breathe, count to 10 (so to speak), and let anger slip away--at least, I'll keep trying

[crackerjack4u]

@foreverhis what a beautiful tribute of you and your husband's love, friendship, and life together, I can hear the love you had for him, and him for you in the words that were written. It's wonderful that you have true friends who sound like that are now, and will continue to be an excellent support system for you during this difficult time which is so very important.    

15 hours ago, foreverhis said:

On one hand, I'm lonely, but on the other, the only person I really want is my husband.  He is the one I could always count on and who could count on me.  No wonder I feel shaky; my support has been taken away.

I can so relate to this.  I had a horrible night one night after my husband passed away, not that any of them haven't had their share of horribleness, but this was an extremely horrible night.  When I told my sister the next day about it she said, "Why didn't you call me?"  I said, "Because you weren't the person I wanted to talk to, I wanted to talk to My David, so I did."  Losing your main support system is so very hard, and although it's wonderful that we have the support of family and friends, sometimes we just want/need to talk to the person that we lost.  

15 hours ago, foreverhis said:

People need to know that a quick phone call, email, even a text to say, "I'm here. I love you." can make all the difference in letting me know I'm not forgotten or swept aside.  I think this forum could be a tremendous help for her.  It's already helping me.

Absolutely true on all accounts.  I'm so glad to hear that that this forum is helping you, I know it has helped me and so many others, as well.  

Wishing you peace and strength on your journey.   

[KayC]

I love this article, it explains the grief process...so many people don't get it, but I think this should be required reading of everyone in our society!
https://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/08/grief-understanding-process.html

[foreverhis]

KayC, Thank you for the link.  I'm going to bookmark it. 

Here's an article/blog I found painful, but helpful.  I hate the "Five Stages of Grief."  (Apologies to anyone who has found them helpful.)  But this article, written by "one of us," doesn't break things down into neat little packages.  Instead, she explores seven states of loss she found to be common.  There are several poems integrated.  The one in the part called "Pre Grief" brought me to my knees because it so closely mirrored our experience.  It's hard to explain, but it was comforting and devastating at the same time.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/loss-grief_b_5556644

 

[Moment2moment]

I bookmarked a good one too called "You're not going crazy-you're grieving!" but I don't know how to copy a link on my phone.

[KayC]

I was chided for posting an article written by a grief counselor that debunks the five stages of grief because "some people might find help in it", but the article wasn't saying it was amiss, it was pointing out it was actually written for those going through terminal illness and not loss due to death of a loved one.  The point being that grief isn't so nice & neat a package that we can predict that it'll proceed a certain way, we're unique, and we have some similarities in our journeys but we may also have some things unique to us as well.  Some may feel anger, some may not.  So many things affect our journey and what our grief looks like...how our relationship and love was, how interactive we were with their life, our own personalities and coping skills, how resilient we are...and even then we're STILL in for quite a process!  How much effort we put into our grief, books and articles we read, if we get grief counseling, attend a grief support group, I even did art therapy!  Allowing ourselves the process, not holding back the tears when they come.  All of these things allow us to process our grief, little by little.  Yes, I can understand how you can find it both comforting and devastating at the same time.  This is such a weird journey, we can't begin to explain it to someone who hasn't been there, yet to those who have been there, they get it.

Here's the article you were talking about...Alan Wolfelt is a leading author and (imo) expert on grieving.  https://www.centerforloss.com/2016/12/youre-not-going-crazy-youre-grieving/

[ModKatB]

1 hour ago, KayC said:

 The point being that grief isn't so nice & neat a package that we can predict that it'll proceed a certain way, we're unique, and we have some similarities in our journeys but we may also have some things unique to us as well.  Some may feel anger, some may not.  So many things affect our journey and what our grief looks like...how our relationship and love was, how interactive we were with their life, our own personalities and coping skills, how resilient we are...and even then we're STILL in for quite a process! 

 

@KayC I agree with you completely. When I wrote "Grief: One size does not fit all", one of the first things I put in there was about how I felt that grief does not have a timeline that must be followed.

 

Losing someone you love is one of the hardest things you will ever have to deal with in your life.

It is something that you are never prepared to have to face. There are so many books on the

stages of grief and what the order of those stages are supposed to be, but I don't think there

is any order to how you should feel. While there may be many different things that are a part

of grief and the feelings that will come from the grief, I don't think there is any need to say it

has to follow a certain path.

We all have different ways of coping with the hard things that life will throw at us. I might not

want to talk about it and someone else might find that talking to someone helps them. Others

might find that writing things down makes more sense to them. Some may even find that art

such as painting or sculpting will give them the outlet they need. I guess what I am trying to

say is this, you have to find what works for you and not try to force your grief to fit into the

order that someone else says it should be.

 

[ForgetMeNot150]

@KayC & @foreverhis

Thank you for those links, they were both really useful and totally sum up how I'm feeling.

foreverhis - like you I collapsed when I read the pre-grief section and then just cried through all the rest of the sections too as the poems were so lovely - probably good for me though to let some of that emotion out and I'm feeling strangely calmer now.

Thank you both.

[foreverhis]

5 hours ago, KayC said:

The point being that grief isn't so nice & neat a package that we can predict that it'll proceed a certain way, we're unique, and we have some similarities in our journeys but we may also have some things unique to us as well.  Some may feel anger, some may not.  So many things affect our journey and what our grief looks like

Yes, absolutely.  The only person close to me who has also lost her husband is still pissed at him 3 years later.  She is angry because his death was related to smoking and he would not quit.  Now, maybe after the first successful treatment he would have had a lot longer, but he did not quit then either.  So, she's still mad that he would not make that one change that might have made a difference.  It's kind of hard for me to tell her to "let it go" or whatever because (1) I have no right to tell her how to feel, (2) there's truth behind her anger, and (3) that anger is actually helping her cope. 

I am not and cannot be angry with my love because anything that might have changed my "now" was decided by both of us, based on the best information we had at the time, and starting more than 15 years back with his first cancer.  His genetics kind of screwed him, but I do harbor some anger at a couple of his doctors.  They could have, maybe should have, taken some things more seriously sooner.  But then again, he and I could have pushed harder too.  So as much as I'd like to lay blame in one place, there's plenty to go around here and there and over there.  Shortly after his diagnosis, I had to give him a mantra: "This is not my fault."  He kept apologizing to me for getting so sick. I could not allow him to think he was to blame because it wasn't. 

[foreverhis]

1 hour ago, ForgetMeNot150 said:

foreverhis - like you I collapsed when I read the pre-grief section and then just cried through all the rest of the sections too as the poems were so lovely - probably good for me though to let some of that emotion out and I'm feeling strangely calmer now. 

It's strange to say I'm glad that something so painful might have helped you a little bit.  But there is a catharsis is reading another person's personal story and have it relate closely to your own.

I should probably mention that words are a big deal for me.  I suspect you've probably all figured that out already.  My degrees are in literature (because I love it and am addicted to reading) and technical writing (because I wanted to make a decent living in a field I also love).  I come from a family divided between teachers and scientists/accountants.  We're all also musicians and artists of one kind or another, mostly for fun, but one relative is a sculptor. 

I am also a poet, though mostly for myself and not for others.  So far, two poems about my hubby's death (dang, I have trouble even writing that) have announced themselves and demanded an audience.  I have shared one with my sisters because I knew it would speak to them too.  Writing always helps me, so I've had a couple of stream of consciousness sessions in the past few months.  My disabilities have made it difficult for me to process my thoughts and ideas quickly and coherently (really sucks when that has been your whole career), but writing allows me to take my time, look at what I've thought out, and make sure it's what I meant to say.

Posting here is allowing me to express myself to people who understand how unbearably hard and painful this is.  For that, I am thankful.