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9 months and moving forward


4Hdad

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For the past nine months since my wife passed away unexpectedly, I have been going through the motions of life. I get up and go to work, come home and take care of the kids and horses, and crash. That's it.  O sleep far too much - a classic sign of depression. I had a group that I used to spend Sunday afternoons with, it was one thing I really looked forward to to pull me out of my own head, but due to work schedules, that kind of fell through the cracks. It seemed like everything I do is for the benefit of someone else because, if it were up to me, I'd just want to go home, block out all of the light, and curl up in bed.

A friend of mine asked to go see some music with me, and so we did, and lo and behold, it was a great night out with one of my favorite bands, one that I'd never had a chance to see live. We went out again last week to see another fantastic act, and the next morning I awoke, for the first time in a very long time, happy. I still had the guitars from the night before playing in my ears. Since then we've gone out to brunch and ended up spending the entire afternoon just talking about everything under the sun. We text a lot, it seems like most days and evenings. We're planning another night out to a new venue this week. I'll invite her out to meet the horses sometime very soon. I am very nervous introducing her to my kids. I know they will like her, but I'm not sure if they are ready to see me moving forward, seemingly away from the memory of their mother, this soon. 

There is no pressure, nothing is moving romantically at all - but I feel like the potential is there. We have a lot in common, and we've been friends for a very long time (over 15 years). She, too, lost her partner around 5 or 6 years ago, so she has gone through what we're all going through. We've discussed our lost partners, of course with great respect toward each other's feelings. Neither of us is pushing for it to become more, but as I said, it feels like there is a lot of potential for the relationship to grow. It's both exciting and comforting, and it's also a little terrifying. I've spent the last 9 months trying to figure out how to make my life work alone. I don't even know if I have that down just yet. It seems somewhat irresponsible of me to throw in a new, romantic factor, because I honestly don't know if I am ready for that, and I would never, never want to toy with her emotions by moving our relationship in that direction, then pulling away if I somehow become unsure/scared. I have a lot of soul searching to do. For now, though, I am really enjoying her company, and it seems the feeling is mutual. 

Thank you all for letting me vent a little here. I feel like I've got no other place to discuss these kinds of things outside of this site, and I do appreciate it. 

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I think your approach to this potentially new "path" is appropriate, no expectations, no pressure, just enjoying the moment. Happiness is elusive, especially for "us", so bravo, I think it's great you've managed to connect with someone that you not only share common interests with, but someone who knows exactly what you're going through. I would imagine as long as both of you are completely honest about how things are moving, any concerns or fears either of you may have, or what any long term scenarios may entail, then embrace this. 

I can understand the hesitation with the children and how this might look or feel to them, and that might be the trickiest part. Gradually introducing them to the idea might be one way to circumvent major problems. I know there's a lot of thinking to be done, and it can't be easy, but congrats on finding some comfort and happiness. It's basically what we're all striving for nowadays. 

Andy 

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4Hdad,

Personally, I'm glad you went out and had a good time - something I imagined you hadn't done in quite sometime and well deserved.  Your wife would have wanted you to continue on with your life and live it to its fullest.   I can only imagine that after losing a spouse, putting your heart on the line may feel like the last thing in the world you would want to do.   It seems like you both are enjoying each other's company and there is absolutely nothing wrong in that.  If something romantically evolves, than so be it and if it is meant to be, finding someone new to share your life with would be good too.    Your friend has not come into your life by accident, no coincidence, no fate - God has put her in your life for a purpose - don't take that purpose for granted.  For some, the thought of dating can be paralyzing, but seldom do people understand that it is often more the fear of dating than the idea of a relationship that scares them.   Some even strongly believe it is morally wrong to commit to another relationship and will wrestle with thinking they should remain alone because of their prior commitment.

Lastly, what you ultimately decide you want and don’t want to include in your life moving forward—is most likely the right thing for YOU. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you if you are interested in committing to a new friendship that potentially can turn into a relationship. Period.

Whatever you decide - good luck to you.

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Autocharge
6 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

It's both exciting and comforting, and it's also a little terrifying.

4Hdad, It's nice to to see a positive post. 

I have been posting about my dating experiences (good and bad). Also I have a post or two about introducing a girlfriend to the kids( mine are in collage).

You can find these post in a thread titled " Autocharge my experience " . it's a long thread now but should be worth you time.

Autocharge

ps: second thought you might be best if you word search it.

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4Hdad, thank you for the post on your positive progress. It is encouraging. Perhaps many of those making positive progress self-select out of posting, and messages such as yours and Autocharge's are very good for the group.

Everything you mentioned seems well thought out and appropriate. I wish you the very best.

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4Hdad,

I'm glad you have a good friend that you can enjoy yourself with and relate to as well.  Try not to worry about romance at this time, take your time and if it's meant to be, it'll come.  If I'm not mistaken, I think you are the one that had a discussion with your kids already and they were supportive, so I see no reason to think they wouldn't be if anything develops on down the road.

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4Hdad, Thank you for sharing your progress on your journey. By sharing, you are giving others here hope, inspiration, insight, in that there is the positive possibility in being able to move forward in a forever evolving world.Your friend has been in your life for a long time. There is a reason for this and now you are finding that reason. I wish you the best.

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I just saw my response was addressed to Autocharge, I mean to put 4Hdad, sorry, I have it changed now!

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Hi KayC,

Until last night, I had not discussed with my daughters the possibility of me dating, but I did have that conversation with them last night. Most important to me was that they understand they will always be the most important people in my life. It went exactly as I had expected - actually, if I had thought there would be a problem I never would have considered it. My older daughter told me she believed it would be absolutely fine and appropriate, while my younger daughter told me that she wanted me to be happy, and if it would make me happy, then she would be happy for me. 

It seems like the only one who isn't aware of my interest is the woman whom I intend to court. But, to be honest, I think she knows I'm interested, and I believe she is as well. All of the signs are there from both of us, so I'm sure it will come as no surprise when I ask her if we can consider our next outing this weekend as a 'date.' I am a big proponent of taking things slow and not jumping in too fast. My wife and I dated exclusively for 6 months before we took things to the 'next level,' so to speak. 

I am encouraged that life will continue and there are yet good things to come. It's a good feeling - and yes, still a little terrifying. I haven't been here in a very long time.

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4hdad, I'm so glad the discussion with your daughters went very well. That alone shows that you and your wife are excellent parents. If you are happy, they will be happy and honest healing will take place. I truly believe your wife is looking on and smiling and proud that her family is going to be ok in living out your lives.

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Our first 'official' date was fantastic. Without going into detail, I am falling for her, and the feelings are mutual. This didn't just 'happen' overnight; it's been growing within us both over the course of months. This was simply the first time that we expressed it. It is both fantastic and bittersweet. She is, quite simply, an incredible woman.

Here's the problem. When I spoke with my girls about dating, my younger daughter's exact words were, "If she makes you happy, then you should be happy." I thought that was very mature, and it really was. Then, I overstepped. I wanted them to meet, and so we did...and that is when I realized that, even though she understands this and is OK with it mentally, emotionally she is just not ready to see me with someone who is not her mom. The afternoon ended abruptly when I realized she really wasn't ready for this, and I felt horrible. There were no public displays of affection or anything like that; this simple meeting was a sobering realization for me on how much my kids have yet to process. I simply did not foresee how it would impact her, and that is 100% on me. 

My new interest felt horribly for my daughter when we realized what was happening. She understands grief very well, having lost her fiance suddenly some 5 years ago. She continues the grieving process to this day. The loss of our lover is one of the many things we have in common. With time and healing, I know my kids are going to love her because she is a truly fantastic person (not just my biased opinion - everyone we know says the same). We'll try again someday, on my daughter's terms and in her own time. She is part of a wonderful group counseling program that helps kids work through a variety of issues together, and it's taken her very far in processing the loss of her mother. I am hoping that this weekend's faux pas on my part will not be yet another hurdle for her. I want her to be able to grow towards acceptance in her own time. In the meantime, though, I've found something, something that I really wasn't looking for, in an amazing woman. She draws me, and I her, towards a place of light and warmth that neither of us thought we'd ever see again.

As I said, bittersweet. 

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4Hdad, I'm sorry the first meeting didn't go so well. Like you say, your younger one is involved in a great counseling group and she will learn to cope and understand better. The process just requires time, acceptance and patience. All is not lost. The next meeting in the future will go easier. With your daughter being the youngest, the baby of the family, so to speak, her attachment to her mother is probably going to take a little longer in fully processing her loss.

On a good note, the growing relationship between you and your new interest sounds very promising. She is showing compassion and patience with you and your daughters. She has a knowing that there is no need to be rushing things. Because this relationship feels right for the both of you, I feel your wife is smiling down, giving you a thumbs up that her family is going to be OK and just maybe, her daughters will have a needed female influence for wisdom and guidance.   (HUGS)

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Autocharge
6 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

emotionally she is just not ready to see me with someone who is not her mom

4Hdad, I don't know what to say.

Your post has just reaffirmed the concerns that I have, about the talk I had with my kids.  My kids say one thing (no problem ) but I suspect something else. However my kids are in college so they are older than yours by the way it sounds. Please keep me posted on your decisions and results. I'm coming up on a 4th date , by my definition that makes her a "girlfriend". I'm in no rush to introduce her to the kids and she has said to take it slow.

Autocharge

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17 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

Our first 'official' date was fantastic. Without going into detail, I am falling for her, and the feelings are mutual. This didn't just 'happen' overnight; it's been growing within us both over the course of months. This was simply the first time that we expressed it. It is both fantastic and bittersweet. She is, quite simply, an incredible woman.

Here's the problem. When I spoke with my girls about dating, my younger daughter's exact words were, "If she makes you happy, then you should be happy." I thought that was very mature, and it really was. Then, I overstepped. I wanted them to meet, and so we did...and that is when I realized that, even though she understands this and is OK with it mentally, emotionally she is just not ready to see me with someone who is not her mom. The afternoon ended abruptly when I realized she really wasn't ready for this, and I felt horrible. There were no public displays of affection or anything like that; this simple meeting was a sobering realization for me on how much my kids have yet to process. I simply did not foresee how it would impact her, and that is 100% on me. 

My new interest felt horribly for my daughter when we realized what was happening. She understands grief very well, having lost her fiance suddenly some 5 years ago. She continues the grieving process to this day. The loss of our lover is one of the many things we have in common. With time and healing, I know my kids are going to love her because she is a truly fantastic person (not just my biased opinion - everyone we know says the same). We'll try again someday, on my daughter's terms and in her own time. She is part of a wonderful group counseling program that helps kids work through a variety of issues together, and it's taken her very far in processing the loss of her mother. I am hoping that this weekend's faux pas on my part will not be yet another hurdle for her. I want her to be able to grow towards acceptance in her own time. In the meantime, though, I've found something, something that I really wasn't looking for, in an amazing woman. She draws me, and I her, towards a place of light and warmth that neither of us thought we'd ever see again.

As I said, bittersweet. 

Have you ventured over to the Loss Of A Parent section of this forum? You might be able to find some insight from people that are in your daughter's position. I am sure they will be as open and honest on that forum as we are here and they may be able to shed some light on their experiences with their widowed parent dating. I hope you can gain some knowledge into your daughter's grief so that this new chapter will go as smoothly as possible for your whole family. 

 

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Maybe keep those areas of your life separate for a while.  My kids' dad and I were married for 23 years before divorcing.  When my daughter saw a picture of George and I together the first time, it was hard hitting to her.  I think no matter when it happens it's weird for them to see it and process it, they think of their parents as one unit.  I remember her exclaiming, "You look like a...couple!"  It was hard for her.  But she did get through it and both of my kids came to know and love George immensely, he was a big role in their lives.  Try to take your cues from them and go slow...

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Thank you for the wonderful suggestion, Eagle-96 - I've read some of the threads in the Loss Of A Parent section and learned a great deal. And KayC, you are absolutely right in that I need to keep this new part of my life completely separate from my current life. Autocharge, it sounds like you are on the right path - slow and un-rushed is probably for the best (more on that later).

Keeping things separate in my home will be simple. My youngest doesn't want to hear about it, so she won't have to until she's ready to discuss this new thing. I will still make time for this new woman, but it won't be burdensome or take anything away from my family.

Now, here is the big-deal, taboo reveal of the day. I feel like I need to preface this, so please bear with me while I open up with some brutal honesty.

I am not perfect. Far from it.

Neither was she.

My wife and I did not have what you would call an 'ideal' marriage all the time that we were together. We actually divorced and re-married at one point. We were young when we first married, and we had a lot of growing to do. And we did grow, and in that growth, we grew somewhat apart. Somewhere in the middle, our paths diverged. We still had tremendous love, but we also had a comfortable emotional distance between us. It's just the way it was. There was no infidelity, no abuse, nothing like that - but we'd grown apart, and while I didn't close the door completely, I'd pretty much resigned myself to a sexless, passionless future. It was depressing.

When I first posted here, I was still in a state of shock, and I had idealized the state of my marriage. I wasn't being untruthful, but I also wasn't telling the whole story. We loved each other, but had developed that mutually-accepted emotional distance. I say mutually accepted because I struggled against it, futilely, for years, but eventually I had to accept that it wasn't going to come back. So, that distance had become the normal. It wasn't what I wanted, but I had little choice. I saw a therapist for years who helped open the door for me to make a choice - stay or leave - and I chose to stay. I wasn't forced or guilt-tripped, I made a choice. I chose to forsake the pursuit of a happier future for the cool but devoted embers I had at home.

In a sense, when my wife passed, I had already been grieving the death of my marriage for years. So had she. There was a point, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, when I asked her if she even loved me anymore. She had to take a minute to think about it, and could only come back with, "I don't know." Of course, that meant "no." I knew it then. I don't believe you can set ashes alight once the flame has died. So, in grieving my wife's death, which was truly devastating no matter the state of our marriage (I still loved my wife very much), I had already mourned for the loss of love in my life. As I said, It's just the way it was.

And now comes this new woman. Everything I've said before is true. It began as a completely platonic relationship - just great friends who enjoy each other's company. The more time we've spent with each other, though, the closer we've become. First and foremost, we genuinely adore each other. We appreciate the little things in each other that it seems the rest of the world takes for granted. Our shared experience is eerily identical. The things we want in life and companionship are eerily identical. The way that we express these things is eerily identical. If I believed in a force in the universe putting people together, I cannot imagine a more perfect time for that force to exert itself and bring this woman back into my life. 

If I believed in soul mates, as in a perfect woman to be paired with was made just for me, I cannot imagine one more perfect than she. And the timing - when both of us are ready and able to accept this thing - is unbelievably uncanny.

SO. To make a long story less boring, I'm falling for her. I HAVE fallen for her.  And, likewise, she has fallen for me. We both know it, though we haven't spoken those three little words. She, too, had resigned herself to a future without the hope of passion. It doesn't feel wrong at all. It's unexpected, but welcome. I have joy in my life where I haven't for years. I have hope. I am...dare I say it...happy.

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Wow.  I say that for many reasons. You spoke of your imperfect marriage, though the love was still there. I had the same for reasons I am not ready to talk about. And , wow. You give me such hope. I need to read your letter over a couple more times. I can't thank you enough for "the confession ". 

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On 6/5/2017 at 3:40 PM, 4Hdad said:

"if she makes you happy, then you should be happy"  even though she understands this and is OK with it mentally, emotionally she is just not ready to see me with someone who is not her mom. The afternoon ended abruptly when I realized she really wasn't ready for this, and I felt horrible. There were no public displays of affection or anything like that; this simple meeting was a sobering realization for me on how much my kids have yet to process. I simply did not foresee how it would impact her, and that is 100% on me. 

While children say one thing, they generally mean another.  She may have said what she perceived you wanted to hear but when the time actually happened and she met your love interest, it was simply too much for her to take in.  I'm only speculating, but perhaps seeing you happy somehow defiles the memory of her mom or she may just not be ready to accept her mom's passing or she is frighten of losing you as well.  A mother can always take the place of others, but whose place, no one can ever take.   Her entire life has changed and just maybe, she has enough change right now and is not ready for more.

Your lady friend seems to know how to deal with loss, so I think she'll be able to help you with your daughters through this difficult time in their lives.  Like the others have responded and you know yourself, take it slow; there's no rush.  I think that for children moving *forward* after losing someone so close to them is a challenge because after extreme loss, they want to go back.  Your daughters still need time to heal and you are the best person to help them through it.  God bless and keep you and the girls safe.

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19 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

Thank you for the wonderful suggestion, Eagle-96 - I've read some of the threads in the Loss Of A Parent section and learned a great deal. And KayC, you are absolutely right in that I need to keep this new part of my life completely separate from my current life. Autocharge, it sounds like you are on the right path - slow and un-rushed is probably for the best (more on that later).

Keeping things separate in my home will be simple. My youngest doesn't want to hear about it, so she won't have to until she's ready to discuss this new thing. I will still make time for this new woman, but it won't be burdensome or take anything away from my family.

Now, here is the big-deal, taboo reveal of the day. I feel like I need to preface this, so please bear with me while I open up with some brutal honesty.

I am not perfect. Far from it.

Neither was she.

My wife and I did not have what you would call an 'ideal' marriage all the time that we were together. We actually divorced and re-married at one point. We were young when we first married, and we had a lot of growing to do. And we did grow, and in that growth, we grew somewhat apart. Somewhere in the middle, our paths diverged. We still had tremendous love, but we also had a comfortable emotional distance between us. It's just the way it was. There was no infidelity, no abuse, nothing like that - but we'd grown apart, and while I didn't close the door completely, I'd pretty much resigned myself to a sexless, passionless future. It was depressing.

When I first posted here, I was still in a state of shock, and I had idealized the state of my marriage. I wasn't being untruthful, but I also wasn't telling the whole story. We loved each other, but had developed that mutually-accepted emotional distance. I say mutually accepted because I struggled against it, futilely, for years, but eventually I had to accept that it wasn't going to come back. So, that distance had become the normal. It wasn't what I wanted, but I had little choice. I saw a therapist for years who helped open the door for me to make a choice - stay or leave - and I chose to stay. I wasn't forced or guilt-tripped, I made a choice. I chose to forsake the pursuit of a happier future for the cool but devoted embers I had at home.

In a sense, when my wife passed, I had already been grieving the death of my marriage for years. So had she. There was a point, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, when I asked her if she even loved me anymore. She had to take a minute to think about it, and could only come back with, "I don't know." Of course, that meant "no." I knew it then. I don't believe you can set ashes alight once the flame has died. So, in grieving my wife's death, which was truly devastating no matter the state of our marriage (I still loved my wife very much), I had already mourned for the loss of love in my life. As I said, It's just the way it was.

And now comes this new woman. Everything I've said before is true. It began as a completely platonic relationship - just great friends who enjoy each other's company. The more time we've spent with each other, though, the closer we've become. First and foremost, we genuinely adore each other. We appreciate the little things in each other that it seems the rest of the world takes for granted. Our shared experience is eerily identical. The things we want in life and companionship are eerily identical. The way that we express these things is eerily identical. If I believed in a force in the universe putting people together, I cannot imagine a more perfect time for that force to exert itself and bring this woman back into my life. 

If I believed in soul mates, as in a perfect woman to be paired with was made just for me, I cannot imagine one more perfect than she. And the timing - when both of us are ready and able to accept this thing - is unbelievably uncanny.

SO. To make a long story less boring, I'm falling for her. I HAVE fallen for her.  And, likewise, she has fallen for me. We both know it, though we haven't spoken those three little words. She, too, had resigned herself to a future without the hope of passion. It doesn't feel wrong at all. It's unexpected, but welcome. I have joy in my life where I haven't for years. I have hope. I am...dare I say it...happy.

Thank you for sharing that. I imagine it was hard to type those words but it gives us an insight into who you are and I appreciate you taking that step. We all want the perfect marriage. The storybook tale of love. The one they write books and make movies about. We don't all get that but that doesn't make your grief any less than anyone else here. I hope you don't discount your pain because of that. My marriage to Lori WAS the storybook marriage. We loved each other with the full force of a hurricane. I say this because I hope that you find that love with your new relationship. I hope you find your soulmate and can experience the love and happiness that every human strives for but few truly find. I'm rooting for y'all.

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4Hdad,

I am very happy for your new relationship, it's good that you have that, I wish everyone could have that sometime in their life, but many never get that.  Just take it slow so your kids have time to adjust and also so you can see each other realistically and not just affiliated with that new love ecstasy that doesn't always last, and make sure it is the enduring kind of love that you feel it is.  I wish all the best for you!

You stuck through thick and thin with your wife, what more can anyone do?!  You will continue to love her even though she's passed, and even though she answered you the way she did, perhaps she loved you too and didn't fully realize it for what it was...she did, after all, stay with you also through thick and thin.  I know it wasn't perfect, she had her secrets (you shared with us about that before), but people sometimes do, even so, you loved her.  Your kids don't know everything about your relationship...they don't need to know, but they will come around in due time to accepting someone new in your life and even be happy for you.  Just give it time, it hasn't been very long yet.  I think it's been easier for you to fall into this relationship so soon because you have grieved your relationship for so long now.  Knowing this, it actually makes me feel better about this situation...usually when someone falls in love so soon after the death of their spouse I worry that their head is in a fog and they aren't seeing with clarity but this explains your situation much better.

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Thank you all for the thoughtful comments, it really means a lot to me that we have a safe place to talk about such personal things with folks who know or are experiencing what it feels like. I think the both of us are really trying very hard to go into this with both eyes open, and that is so important. It's sometimes hard, though, to stop myself from falling ever harder for her, because she really is so amazing. The truth is, I know I have to take things slowly, but I don't really want to. 

In the meantime, we don't see each other every day, so we text throughout the day and talk every night. It's really sweet. 

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I'm praying everything will work out for the both of you. You don't need to know exactly how, just trust in God that it will.

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I'm smiling as I read your latest posts, 4Hdad.  I went back and read your previous posts and I am happy for you :) You've had a very tough time and you deserve a special love.  I'm sure your late wife would not disaprove of your new found enjoyment of life.   

Both your daughters will be suffering immensely from losing their Mom, but your youngest at aged 14, could take a long, long time to adjust to and accept your new found love.  Most horsey Mom & daughter teams share a very deep love and bond.  I speak from experience.  Your lass has suffered tremendous loss, of not just her Mom, but probably the greatest friend she's ever likely to have.  As the horses were her and her Mom's interest, she will also be experiencing what they call secondary loss.  I can only imagine she will feel tortured with pain.  Her love of horses should pull her through in the long run.  Though it sounds like she could do with some guidance so she doesn't take her pain and anger out on them.  Forgive me preaching if she has already stopped that behaviour.  Is she close to her Grandmother who lives with you?  Would she be helpful in guiding your daughter in finding another outlet for her pain and anger?  Or perhaps you and your daughter could find another physical activity in which you could share quality time together.  Teenage girls need their Dads attention, love and approval at the best of times.  And for her this is the very worst if times. 

You've received some very thoughtful replies.  Spread your leisure time around with all your girls.  You'll probably be busier than ever and feeling like a teenager yourself, lol, but enjoy the wonderful first flush of love. 

All the best 4Hdad X

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On 6/10/2017 at 4:40 AM, M88 said:

I'm smiling as I read your latest posts, 4Hdad.  I went back and read your previous posts and I am happy for you :) You've had a very tough time and you deserve a special love.  I'm sure your late wife would not disaprove of your new found enjoyment of life.   

Both your daughters will be suffering immensely from losing their Mom, but your youngest at aged 14, could take a long, long time to adjust to and accept your new found love.  Most horsey Mom & daughter teams share a very deep love and bond.  I speak from experience.  Your lass has suffered tremendous loss, of not just her Mom, but probably the greatest friend she's ever likely to have.  As the horses were her and her Mom's interest, she will also be experiencing what they call secondary loss.  I can only imagine she will feel tortured with pain.  Her love of horses should pull her through in the long run.  Though it sounds like she could do with some guidance so she doesn't take her pain and anger out on them.  Forgive me preaching if she has already stopped that behaviour.  Is she close to her Grandmother who lives with you?  Would she be helpful in guiding your daughter in finding another outlet for her pain and anger?  Or perhaps you and your daughter could find another physical activity in which you could share quality time together.  Teenage girls need their Dads attention, love and approval at the best of times.  And for her this is the very worst if times. 

You've received some very thoughtful replies.  Spread your leisure time around with all your girls.  You'll probably be busier than ever and feeling like a teenager yourself, lol, but enjoy the wonderful first flush of love. 

All the best 4Hdad X

Unfortunately, my mother in law is bitter and angry at the world, and she tends to take this out on those closest to her, her grandchildren. They avoid her, as she is incorrigible. Everyone understands her pain, and I've done my best to explain her behavior to the kids. They understand it on some level, but it still hurts. I've spoken with her about her attitude towards everyone and it seemed to help on the surface for a while, but the passive-aggressive never left. I'm actually not sure which one is worse to put up with.

My youngest did take some of her anger out with the horses, just as you mentioned - not being abusive but having very little patience. It's an area we are working on. The animals present many, many opportunities for she and I to come to some very positive places of compromise. She's giving me riding lessons, which puts her in charge (where she wants and needs to be in this area) and cements our bond a little more. On the other hand, she's come a long way in listening to my direction when there's a safety-related issue and I have to step in and put my foot down - something she resisted in the beginning. She needs to know she can trust me to listen to her, and this is one place where that can be done easily - she's a much more knowledgeable horse person than I. She also needs to know that she there are times where she needs to listen to me, and that I won't steer her wrong or make arbitrary decisions just to punish her, which is how she probably saw my interventions at first. We've come a long ways since those first days.

Navigating this new relationship in uncharted waters, I've already made mistakes. My goal is to learn from those mistakes so they are not repeated, and to find a way to help us all build new relationships together, with everyone's feelings and needs taken into account. It is challenging. But, I know it can be done. 

Once again, thank you all for your thoughtfulness, for your very sound advice, and for just being here to help during this time of change.  

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I feel like I'm only now learning to finally take care of me in a healthy way. I am meeting my own needs and wants without indulging in unhealthy abandon, and I'm doing so with respect towards my kids' feelings. My mother-in-law is surprisingly happy for me, which was such a great relief. I've got other family who have different opinions, and frankly they are welcome to keep those opinions to their damn selves. Not surprisingly, they are people who wouldn't recognize true commitment, devotion, or even healthy human connection if it snuck up and bit them on the ass. I'm far too nice a guy to point this out to them...but it's true, and I won't let their shitty and cynical opinion color my view of the world. What I am learning is that this is my world to color, it's my happiness to deny or take hold of, and it's nobody else's responsibility. 

I feel guilty sometimes for being so happy with this new woman. She is amazing on every level. We connect in ways that I have not felt in decades. She is gorgeous and funny and caring and sensitive and kind. She brings out the best in me. What is more, she wants to bring out the best in me. She tells me that she sees it, and then she shows me, and it's just incredible. In this way, with her help, I'm learning to move past the guilt for being so happy.

And it seems that all of those things she is to me, I am to her. She and I really seem to be exactly what the other needed, and we found each other at a time when we'd all but given up on having those very basic needs met in this lifetime. We've become a partner to each other to bring out the best in us, to be a mirror for what is beautiful inside each other.

I wasn't looking for this, but I've found it.

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4Hdad, Abandon the guilt, we are all happy for you!  It feels good to hear you are taking care of yourself and your attitude is so healthy, it's like a breath of fresh air!  I'm glad your MIL is supportive!

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4Hdad, Yes, we are happy for you!  Your new relationship sounds a lot of how my husband and I felt when we met each other and it lasted and grew even more over time. My intuition tells me you met your soulmate. The both of you are blessed and your children will naturally come around and complete that blessing.

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Last night, our families met for the first time (at least those we hadn't been introduced to yet; I've met her older son on a couple of occasions and he's a great guy). We all went to an Italian place for dinner. She and I, my two girls and her two boys, and my mother in law.

It was a fantastic evening. I thought there were some awkward moments, but she's pretty sure that that was just me. We all enjoyed the evening. My youngest was actually joking with me earlier while we were getting barn chores done, saying "So, am I meeting my new brothers tonight?"

"No, you're meeting your dad's girlfriend's sons."

"Yeah, it's just easier to say 'brothers', ya know?"

This is an incredible transformation from where I was, where we were, only two short months ago. It feels like new life. I mean, I know there's been a quickening inside of me, but just my being more alive and happy seems to have really brought out some of that in my family as well. I guess that makes sense and I shouldn't be too surprised, yet I am. 

Now we get to begin merging our different interests. She's coming out to a ride meet/gaming show on Sunday. We'll be heading out to the track with her and her older son this Summer as they have track days (they both ride street bikes - the slow group, so only up to 140mph!) It's already starting to feel like a modern day reboot of the Brady Bunch!

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6 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

incredible transformation

4Hdad, Wish you only the best.

Autocharge

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Our two families are getting along well. Although I was anxious, my girls are taking to my new interest quite easily. We've all gone out a few times now, to a movie, to a friends BBQ, to her property for dinner and an evening together with her and her oldest son. There are still some places that are 'sacred ground' for my younger daughter, like the barn, because that was a place for her and her mom. She had a tough time accepting ME there, so its no wonder that my new relationship is not welcome in that environment. It's not a malicious thing, or even unreasonable in the least, and we all understand and respect that.

As far as my new interest and I, however, we are, in a word, fantastic. Though we've been friends for 17 years, we've been 'seeing' each other and going out for only two months, and we've been 'dating' each other for only one. It's long enough for me to know that I've fallen for this woman like I never have in my entire life; she, too, has fallen for me. It's really quite incredible. We have more in common than I could have imagined. We come from two very different worlds, but we fit together like the last two pieces of a puzzle. We complement each other in ways that neither of us have experienced before. It is eerily perfect. She is the woman of my dreams. Oddly, we've known each other for almost two decades and never had these feelings for each other. We were just great friends. The truth is that back then, we would not have been good for each other, even if we were unattached (which we weren't). It goes to show that good things happen in their own time.

When we finally got together in early May (in a platonic sense), neither of us realized that we had both reached a moment in our lives where we were ready for this. But, the more time we've spent with each other, the more and more it just feels right. The longer we are together, and the more explore each other and our lives leading up to this moment, the more it makes sense for both of us how perfect we are together. I truly feel she does not realize how amazing she actually is. I truly believe her when she tells me the exact same thing.

I love her. There is no denying it. This is new; a warm and welcome light in an otherwise dark and cold existence.

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I am very happy for you.  It sounds like you are beginning the relationship the rest of us are missing now.  Enjoy and appreciate each and every moment together!

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On 7/3/2017 at 5:42 PM, 4Hdad said:

I love her. There is no denying it.

4Hdad, You talk of your feelings for this new lady in your life and I can hear the excitement in your words. That's great. When I read and think about my new “lady friend” I dont have the same excitement that you are expressing. I don't know if I want to love again, capable of love again. I know I started dating to fight the loneliness. Carla is a good woman and I don't want to hurt her in any way. It is early in our relationship, I know this. And both of us are having fun and enjoying each other right now. Trying to find Happiness, that is what I want at this time. LOVE is a big word. I don’t know if i’ll ever be ready for it again. Time will tell.

 

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Autocharge,

3 hours ago, Autocharge said:

both of us are having fun and enjoying each other right now.

Those are the main points at this time. Getting to know each other. Don't worry about the LOVE word. If it is meant to happen between you and Carla, it will. Even if it doesn't, you have made a new friend and we can never have too many friends. Just enjoy having someone to do things with. Best of luck to you!

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I've made an appointment to see my old psychologist again. I haven't seen him in a couple of years. I feel like there are things I am not working through, things that I'm stuck on. This is exactly how he helped me before, and speaking with him this afternoon, I got the feeling that he had been waiting for me to call him again (he's my older daughter's psychologist now, so he knows what's going on). 

I've got two big issues to work through right now. One is my younger daughter, who is now seeming to have some bigger resentments towards me than I had thought. She doesn't understand where I've been for many years in my marriage, because I never shared that stuff with my kids, and I know that my wife never had either. My youngest must have thought everything was fine and normal when it was really anything but, so now that I'm 'moving on' so quickly, she's upset. I need to learn how to deal with that better. My new lady really understands her better than I do; she sees things that I just don't see and points them out to me - but I can't rely on only her to tell me where I'm making these big mistakes. I need help.

Secondly, I've been having more feelings of anger towards my wife for the position she left us in. Creditors I did not know about continue to appear. Missed payments I did not know about on accounts where I was her co-signer have beat up my credit rating to the point that I'm having trouble refinancing all of the debt that was in her name, including the house. I'm finding that I'll probably need to hire a lawyer to wade through some of this for me, which is simply money down the drain, but it's like I have no choice. Her horses are draining me financially, as they were draining her, but if I sell them (as she should have) my daughter will hate me more than she already does. She's left me with my back against the wall, and when all of this first happened, I told myself to forgive her - no sense in being angry at the dead. Now, though, that anger is manifesting in unhealthy ways, and while I'm not about to let that anger ruin my life, I also don't know how to process it. There is literally nobody to take it out on and no one left to blame but myself, which is not helping at all.

Just had to vent. While there is this bright ray of sunshine coming over the horizon of my life, there's still plenty of shadow to deal with as well.

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4Hdad, these are two thorny issues, but it sounds as if you are correctly approaching them. The psychologist will be able to recommend what is best for you and your family. It may be that you and your daughter need some sessions together with him, and perhaps her independently . Unfortunately, if your daughter's issues are not treated correctly, she may have long lasting problems.

The financial issues, while painful, and may involve a hard choice or two, are somewhat mechanical. It may very well save you substantially to consult with lawyers skilled in estate administration as well as debt reorganization. It may be necessary to pay some priority debts and others may be able to be compromised substantially. It is very state and sometimes creditor specific.These can be far too common problems after the death of a spouse, and the right lawyers are very experienced in dealing with them. 

Your new relationship sounds very encouraging, and you are making the right decisions to trust professionals to deal with the shadows while you stay focused on the sunshine.

 

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4Hdad,

I can relate because when my 23 year marriage ended with my kids' dad, he took the nice blazer and told me I could have the old pickup.  Unbeknownst to me, he pocket the money we'd set aside to buy my son a pickup (my son didn't know about that), and he told my son he could have the pickup I was getting in the divorce.  After the divorce, my son came to me and wanted to know when he was getting the pickup.  ???!  I had to tell him I didn't know what he was talking about, that was the only thing I had to drive to/from work.  I don't believe in sharing with kids adult issues, so they didn't know everything about our marriage, only what they saw.  It left me the "bad guy" sometimes but I still didn't set them straight, I felt that in time the kids would see what they needed to know.  It was hard, but I think I did the right thing. 

In Oregon, if you sign on the dotted line, you're liable, but if you weren't on the charge account and didn't sign your name to it, you're not responsible for it.  Other states are different.  It really does take a lawyer to sort this out, what you're liable for, what you're not.  It might help your daughter to have a joint session with the psychologist with you, maybe he can figure a way to broach the issues she does need to be aware of, like your financial need to sell the horses.  God I don't envy you any, but I do relate!  My prayers are with you, it will all be sorted out eventually.  You know, when I went through my divorce with the kids' dad, it was horrible, truly horrible, it's a small town, I was gossiped about by people who had no clue what the circumstances really were, out on my ears as far as friends and church went, truly alone.  I had the kids but wanted to protect them as much as possible.  Their dad was the only dad they'd ever have.  He wasn't making things easy.  I remember getting up every morning, looking in the mirror and telling myself, "It won't be like this forever."  That got me through it.  And you know what?  It WASN'T like that forever!  I married George, we were very very happy with each other, he was a tremendous stepfather to the kids, by then my daughter was grown and on her own, but the launching stage with kids we're still needed, and he was always there helping her with something, coming to her rescue.  He was the parts of a dad that they'd never had, someone they could talk to, count on, he never tried to take the place of their dad, but more as a supplement role and a friend.  

Now if only I could tell myself "It won't be like this forever" again.  But that's the hard part about death, it's so damned final.

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I've had a horrible revelation today, and I think I may know first-hand what mild PTSD feels like.

I'm almost to the 1 year mark since finding my wife gone, and I'm seeing a woman now whom I have fallen for. She lives in the mountains, so it's remote - no neighbors close by - and she's working on her roof this week. So, since I or her family cannot be there, she agreed to stay in touch with me by checking in at intervals throughout the day. However, it turns out her new phone is not working properly and she's not receiving all of her alarms, so she missed two of our check-ins today. 

After 10 minutes of her not responding, I was having visions of finding her broken and battered body somewhere around the perimeter of her 2-story country home. After 15 minutes and no response, I was in the car and pulling out from work, when the phone rang. She apologized profusely, over and over. It wasn't neglect at all, but an error of technology. It happened again in the afternoon.

She let me know how much she appreciated me worrying about her welfare, how good it feels to have someone care for her like that. She began to joke about where exactly did I think I'd find her body when it struck her, and she broke down. She had found her fiance's body 5 years ago when he passed away from medical issues. She hadn't even thought about what I was feeling until that moment. She apologize again and again. Again, not neglect, but she simply wasn't thinking of the situation in those terms.

I haven't broken down, but everything in me is screaming to, has been all day. I've felt it like a poison in my chest since this morning and it won't let up. Just the thought of it has brought me right back to the depression and hopelessness I felt that day nearly a year ago. Losing her would fucking crush me. I honestly don't know if I could take it.

I thought I'd worked through this. I didn't realize there would be triggers that would bring these feelings of despair on so strongly.

We're going to a symphony tonight, a first for me. Honestly though, right now I feel completely drained, and I want nothing more than to just go home and go to sleep, as I did every day when I was in the grip of the deepest clinical depression I've ever experienced.

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I know that feeling. It is a version of how we know we will never love another cat or dog again when a favorite is put to sleep. I keep thinking this. 

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4Hdad, I am so sorry for what you are emotionally enduring right now. The PTSD situation you found yourself in today would have freaked me out. Along with your one year mark coming up, that is a lot of anxiety, despair, and stress. My heart breaks for you and I hope that prayers, comfort and a balance find their way to you. This is why, at my older age, I cannot comprehend even finding someone just for companionship and social events. That fear of caring for someone and losing them. I'm never going to get over losing my husband and I wouldn't want to lose someone else I care about on top of that. You will be in my prayers.

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4Hdad,

This is the double side of the loving coin...on the one hand it feels really good to have someone who cares about you so much, on the other hand is the pain involved in caring so much that you worry about what could happen to them, what could change everything for you.  Having been through this before, it is all the more on our minds.  All you can do is what you are both doing, trying to work in safeguards to assure each other, trying to believe in the best and having faith to sustain you until you can talk again.  A whole lot of emotion, I can imagine how drained you must be feeling.  You're definitely in my thoughts and prayers.  

A lady that can roof, wow!  

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Thank you all for your thoughts, it was a rough afternoon. I left work feeling drained. We had plans last night to attend our local symphony in the park, and before we left for that we talked about the day. After the evening, my batteries had been completely recharged and we'd grown even closer.

We understand each other on a level I've never experienced before. We're still learning the ins-and-outs of this new relationship, because neither of us has been with someone who's situation and experience so closely resemble our own. Although we come from vastly different backgrounds, we've found ourselves at this point in time with the same feelings, experiences and emotions in play, and the same wants, needs and desires. We seem to make each other whole, if that makes sense. It's all too perfect. 

And so is she! She roofs and landscapes, she rides a 1,000 cc Suzuki crotch rocket, she plays at least 3 instruments, has a masters degree, is a kindergarten teacher, and she's teaching me to swing dance. She's dainty, feisty, funny, incredibly smart and ridiculously cute, and it seem that we adore one another. 

I'm learning that this is what makes all of it, everything else, worthwhile. This feels like a connection I've truly never had before. We're both well aware of the pain of loss, and though we never want to feel that again, I'm willing to risk it for her.

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4Hdad, I'm so happy for you! I guess that this is what life is all about. Taking risks for that spiritually deep connection to another. Someone who will become a life partner. Your new lady sounds like a fantastic, ambitious person who is living and enjoying life on her terms. You and her will be growing and learning together. Everything will follow along naturally.

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Wow, 4Hdad!  Hang onto her, she's rare!  I am so happy for you, you have what George and I had, that deep connection, that completion.  I spent 23 years with my kids' dad and although I cared about him, we were never "in love", didn't complement one another like George and I.  We were a family but lacked the intimacy of coupledom that I came to have with George.  Even though I lost George way too soon, I am forever grateful I got to have him in my life and know love for once in my life.  I carry that with me still.

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15 hours ago, 4Hdad said:

I'm willing to risk it for her.

4Hdad, good to hear from you. You do sound happy and that is important. Your words “I'm willing to risk it for her.”   Provoked some thought on my part. I see Carla every day now. She's had a lot of time off here lately but that is going to change with her new job ( Mon - Thur 8-6) which starts in Aug.  I like her and she is a good woman. To be clear she is putting now pressure on me at all. By now you and everyone on this forum know I analyze everything that includes me. LoL  Reality check I've only been seeing her for a month and a half now. I've meet her son , not her daughter. Plan on meeting some of her relatives next weekend. She continues to surprise me , she is so different then my wife I can't count the number of ways she is. I'm a very caring man I love to help where and when I can. It's odd I find myself wanting to protect all the material things that my wife and I worked so hard for. example I would have a problem if Carla says (let's go home) meaning my home. What does that say about how I feel? I'm like a child protecting my Toy Box. Point is I'm not "willing to risk it for her" at this point. Maybe I think I've got to much to risk. Maybe it's not the material things but it's my emotions I'm not willing to risk. It's funny I faced my emotions and fears when it came to fighting the loneliness. It doesn't make any sense to me right now. I've never thought past the idea of “finding someone”. I can see that I still have a lot of issues to work on.

 

Rant over.

Thanks again 4Hdad for spurring my thought train.

 

Autocharge (moving forward”new normal”)

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Autocharge, When it comes to a new relationship, so much reflection and soul searching comes into play about what do we really need and want. You and Carla are still in the early stages of getting to know one another. If the relationship is truly meant to be, you will reach that moment of clarity of "willing to risk" your heart and emotions. Take your time, enjoy living in the present moment and the rest will fall into place in perfect timing. I wish you well.

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True, my thoughts exactly.  Enjoy what is, it's okay to take your time.

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