Loss of an Adult Child

[mysonrich]

It's a great opportunity to volunteer and participate and attend the camp. There are several members here with minor children, grandchildren, family members and friends that may be able to take advantage of the free camp.

http://www.moyerfoundation.org/

[summergirl]

Hello Dear Indigos - it has been a while since I have ventured here, not even going to try to catch up on reading as it would take me days. I miss all of you and keep you close to my heart. Things have been very busy with us as the weather has been nice (until this week) so been doing alot outside - the pond is complete and ready for the plants to go in. Sanding all the screens for the house as they are a very ugly green - so sanding and painting them white. Getting camper ready for our first camping trip Memorial Weekend. Little League with Tavian every Monday and Wednesday night and working, cleaning, cooking and laundry in between !!

My mom fell on Saturday and fractured her hip, surgery on Sunday and all went well but 3 - 6 months recovery time. I talked to her before the surgery and again yesterday and she is in good spirits but not looking forward to going back into the the rehab - most likely will be at least a month there if not longer. It is so hard when we live so far away from each other but talking on the phone helps and she knows I will be there if needed.

Jessica's dear friend Elisa is getting married on the 28th and is so looking forward to us coming and we are undecided !! She said she would understand if we choose not to come but I know how much it means to her, we have kept in touch with each other and I love her dearly....I know all of Jessica's friends will be there and it would good to see them so why am I feeling a bit scared ?? I guess I always believed I one day would see Jessica walk down the isle but since I will not I believe she would want me to be there for her friends..... Jessica has been on my mind so much lately - the meltdowns have come quite often and the saddness has seeped in and does not want to leave me.....seems like I am drying tears all the time these days....BIG SIGH....

Anyway just wanted to say hello and please know that I love you all and wish you strength, love and healing....Kathy

[ericasmom]

Hi Kath, hope that your Mom heals well and without complications. Enjoy the busy times with Tavian, how wonderful for each event. Your yard must look very pretty by now, the pond and all.

Betsy, just watched two videos from the link you sent, I am crying and have sent this on to our school social worker. We have several kids who are grieving a close family member. Thanks again.

[mikesmomrs]

Good to hear from you, Kathy, and see your beautiful Jessica's smile. Prayers for your mom. Congrats on having your pond ready for the plants...here it is too cold for much of anything, but once the sun comes out, watch out!!!

Dee: Prayers continue for Jon and for you, that he will continue on the path of finding healing, in whichever way best suits his needs.

Betsy: Thank you for sharing...

Colleen: send some of that sun here...our game that Mike's friend Denis and I went to tonight, was rained out! Bummer! Postponed til who knows when! Supposed to rain here til Saturday night, so don't know how they will play the next four nights...so guess we will have to wait til they decide to play in order to enjoy a game again! The last one, Monday night, was a true heart-pounding foot stomping game...that we finally won, coming back from 6-0, we wound up winning 8-7 with a walk off home run. Speaking of which, I have a little email from Cathi, my daughter, to share...the second part of it is truly somethign we all need to remember.

I wrote to her and asked if she had listened to the game on Monday (Cathi does not have TV, so has to listen to the game) this was her answer:

I turned it off when it was 6-0 because I was so disgusted....then after Jame went to bed I turned it back on again, just to see if it had gotten anymore disgusting... it was still 6-0, but I turned it on right before the inning where they scored 5 runs. The end was so exciting, Joe Castig and Dave O'Brien were practically jumping through the radio with glee, comparing it of course to the Mother's Day Miracle.

I was feeling kind of guilty about enjoying it so much because all I can think of otherwise is Davis, his friend, B, and especially B's brother, who is no longer with us. But then I remembered a moment in the documentary "The Tenth Inning" [a documentary film about baseball, and mostly the Red Sox] where Keith Olberman [ a sportscaster, I think] was shocked when a fireman in New York asked him before the first game played after 9/11 who Keith thought was going to win the game...Keith was like, What? How can that possibly matter, especially to you, a fireman? And the fireman replied, "Well, Keith, it doesn't. But for a couple of hours I can leave all the sadness behind and pretend that it does matter."

I like to believe that these times of "enjoying" something are the gifts from our children, or whomever, and that we can try to allow them to take up our hearts and lighten our grief, even if only for a couple of hours.

I will try to remember that those couple of hours of allowing something else to "matter" gives me the strength to endure the hours when I cannot think of anything else but that my son is no longer in this world. I know that this would make Mike smile, and he would know for sure that I am trying to live, for him, as well as for the rest of our family.

love to all my indigo family,

[shorty16]

OK, Where did the sun go?

Kathy - So good to see Jessica's smiling face. Sadness does seep in, and sometimes we just have to let it. Wishing the best for your Mom. Please post pictures of the pond. We would love to see it.

Dee - Still praying for Jon. What did the Dr say yesterday? Is it raining by you? Good for the flowers, but bad for our mood.

Carol - How is B holding up? I love what you posted. In the beginning, being happy was so far away. Even the small signs of happiness were blocked by guilt. But now, the sun is shining more than the clouds are showing for me. I have really had to work at it. Took over 2 years for me to just forgive myself (for what, I am still not sure). Love to you my friend.

Betsy - I looked at the map associated with the grieving support camp and they have one in Milwaukee. I will definetly look into this. I want to see if Aaron would vollunteer for this? Kids really like him.

It has been quite on this board lately. Hope all is well.

Rhonda - Brian and his friend covered themselves with highlight marker (in 8th grade). Took a picture in the light and then took a picture in the dark. In the dark, the highlight marker glowed all over their face, body, EVERYwhere. Brian spent some time scrubing himself off. I am still laughing about the glue. I can just picture the look on your face when you saw him?!?!?! Too funny.

My son, Brian could make me laugh more than anyone. Gosh I miss him. I miss him with every nerve ending in my body. If I sit and think about the future we have lost, I go crazy. So I try not to go there. When God created Brian (and all our angels, he broke the mold!!!!

Colleen, I miss you soooooo much my son.

[westleysmom]

Colleen-I shudder to think what would have happened if Brian and Westley had gone to school together. But I know what you mean, he was my baby and always such a card and I miss him so much. I can't bear to think about it sometimes either. Oh hell, most of the time I can't bear to think about it, but I can't stop myself either.

Carol-Your words touched me so much too. We're going to see Les Mis tonight in Nashville and sometimes I feel guilty doing stuff like that, like I don't deserve to do something fun because I went and let my son die. But if I can think of those few hours as a gift that I get to help me make it through all the hours of tears and grief, it makes it a little easier to have a good time.

Kathy-Sorry you are being so sad but always glad to get an update on Tav. I hope he will enjoy his summer and the darkness will lift from you soon. And that your Mom heals well and quickly. Hugs

Dee-Hope Jon is continuing to heal and his pain is going away.

Have as good a day as you can, I gotta run to get on a call.

[ericasmom]

Hi Everyone, it has been quiet Colleen. I think we are all in pensive moods. Jon has a herniated disk that for this week will be treated with neck brace and sterioids, starting out with a lot, decreasing in number for 6 days to see how that affects the inflamation and pain. Then he will return to that doc on Tuesday and discuss other options and future treatment. The pain is extreme.

It is raining here and warmer, so at least the temps are getting to the right level.

Carol, it is what I have felt since Eri sent her peace through me that day in the forest 7.5 years ago, that she is filled with peace and from that I felt I was directed to live my life strongly in her honor, in her memory, in her love of me and the family. I try to live it well knowing that I would want the same for my loved ones. Your Son's words are the most clear cut case of what we need to remember: You cannot die because I do.

[andy88]

Hello Friends,

Boy I'm struggling this week. It's been 12 weeks and 5 days since I lost my Andy. I miss him so much I can't stand it. I used to be such a happy, optimistic person, but now I'm just a sad shell of a person. I hate feeliing this way...thought I was dealing pretty well, but I guess I'm not after all. Nothing holds any joy any more. I look at his picture and it hits me like a hammer that I'm never going to see him again, at least not in this world. The only time I don't think about him is when I'm busy at work or when I'm sleeping. Westley's Mom: Speaking of Le Mis, I would say the song "I Dreamed a Dream" sums up how I feel about life now perfectly. Thanks for letting me vent, everyone! I look forward to this wave of grief passing. Ups and downs, right?

Betsy: I think Camp Erin sounds wonderful, and I'm going to look into being a volunteer.

Dee: Hope Jon is doing better.

Marley's Dad: I'm so happy you are finding a few rays of sunshine!

Colleen: Glad the sun came out for you!

Kathy: Wishing you some peace and glimmers of happiness.

With love,

Pam

[crystalann]

Morning all,

It is very gloomy here.I hope you all can find some sunshine today.

I had a strange dream last night.Them whole dream I was gathering all kinds of tape and glue.I never used any of it was just gathering.It was so wierd.

I have laid back down this morning to watch tv.The same channel I watch every day.A movie came on I never heard of.It is called Around the universe.They started singing Beatles songs so I told Lucy.She loves them.Sje said her and Tyler watched it all the time and loved it.Never knew so I guess I will watch it.

Love and Hugs to all,Crystal

[shorty16]

Rhonda - You know that Brian and Westley are up in heaven comparing stories trying to on-up each other.

Another funny story: After my Mother died, we let Brian use my Mother's car for his auto's class. One day, I was sitting in the living room and heard a very loud car pull in the driveway. It was Brian in my Mother's car. I looked at him and said "What did you do to my Mother's car?" His reply "Isn't it cool Mom!" Brian had cut off the muffler of my Mother's car so it would be loud - and I mean loud!!!

By cutting off the muffler, the car would no longer pass the emissions inspection required by the state of Wisconsin. Brian died 2 months later. The car sat for a long time, because we could not bring ourselves to put a new muffler on the car.

We had no choice but to repair the car. Now my surviving son, Aaron is using the car for his auto's class.

I will never forget that day. Brian was so proud of the "Hack-job" he did on that car.

After Brian's death, even our neighbors commented on how they would miss the sound of his car. That is how loud it was.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[shorty16]

Andy's Mom

That is how this process goes, especially in the beginning. The ups and downs are very noticeable. You should be proud of yourself that you even have ups during the first 6 months after Andy's death. The ups, for me, we so few and far between. I know now that the court process we went through held me back from healing, because we had to relive the accident and see the other two boys.

In my humble opinion, you are doing great. Getting out of the house is a major step forward. For some, that does not happen for a long time.

I am giving you a virtual hug today. Hang on, we are here to tell you the ups become more frequent than the downs as time goes on.

Colleen

[westleysmom]

Oh Colleen, that is so funny! Westley blew through a variety of vehicles during the time he drove, but in all of them, he played the radio as loud as it would play. That's how I knew when he came in at night, I would hear that radio thumping from a mile away. He never got a ticket for having it too loud, but I always worried that he would. My husband had helped him buy a "system" as they call it, that made the radio play unearthly loud, but when he had his last major wreck in Sept/Oct of 2009, we took it out of the totalled X-Terra and he never got around to installing it in the Cadillac. So the system is still in our garage. I'm not sure what we'll ever do with it. As with the car, that mice got under the hood and chewed some wires in two. I suppose we shouldn't have let that happen, but it has just been too sad to do anything with it so far, I look for it as soon as I pull in the driveway and when it is gone, I will miss it. I'm glad you were able to salvage the car and some good memories from Brian's hack job.

Pam-It does get worse for a while, at least it did for me. I hope that you are able to come up for air enough to remind yourself that the air is still there to breathe.

[bus1851]

Hello everyone,

Very busy...everything happening at once: today home inspector, home appraisal, field trip with my son. Lot's to do but happy to be on the run, sitting around doing nothing bites. Going back to work has really helped out, I don't get so down because I am on the go from 5:30am til I get home at 7:40pm. A weird thing happened at work, I don't know if it is coincidence or fate. I have decided to take it slow and easing my way back to my normal job duties so I am taking care of mostly older patients. Well, at lunch time I had finished eating and my co-worker got beeped to start a new patient on therapy but she was still eating so I volunteered to do it even though the patient was a child. I figured I would eventually have to take care of children again and this was my first opportunity since the accident. When I pulled the paper work, guess what the patients name and age was? It was a 5 month old girl named Marley! I put the paperwork back down and went back to the break room and told my co-worker I was not able to help her. I did not give a reason just that I could not do it. I really don't know how to take this occurrence. Is this a sign intended to help me or is someone just messing with me? I really don't know.

If the house sale goes through we will be staying with my in-laws for a few months, that should be interesting but we have to do what we have to do.

I hope everyone is doing fine and have wonderful day.

Marleys dad CJ

[shorty16]

CJ

That is a real coincidence and I probably would have done the same thing. You are doing the right thing by easing back into your workload (If you call 5:30 am to 7:40 pm easing into it)

Going back to work also did wonders for me. It forced me to think of something else. In the beginning, I dreaded weekends, because all I did was think of my loss. But as time goes on, that went away and now I am back to loving weekends.

This entire grieving process is something we have never experienced before. In the beginning, the grief throws us around and does what it wants to. But as we get stronger, we are able to control what it does to us (most of the time.)

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Crystal Rogerson]

Hello dear friends,

CJ: Glad to hear you are doing so good. I think it was a sign that Marley sent you that she is proud of you for going back to work. I realize that was probably a very hard thing to look at that chart and see that information staring you in the face, but I take it as your angel letting you know that she is behind you all the way.

Has anyone heard from Tony, Brendan's dad? He's been heavy on my heart lately and I'm concerned. Don't know why, just have a nagging feeling.

Tony: if you are reading...I hope you are doing ok and that you, Michele and Jackson are finding comfort and peace.

There was a lady on here, and forgive me because I can't remember her name but I think her son's name was Craig (not even sure about that, as my memory is dreadful) Her son was a suicide victim, and God forgive me if I have two people mixed up...I wanted to tell her, all the parents of suicide that there is the neatest thing going on here. Actually it already happened, but you can google it and find out all about it. It's called "Crouchstock". It's a HUGE festival held every year here in memory of Jacob Crouch. They have been having it since 2005 (when he passed). You can read the whole story behind what brought this festival into action. All the money that is raised goes into suicide prevention and education. Jacob's mom and his friends go to schools and talk about suicide and how to seek help if you are thinking about suicide. It started out as his friends carrying on his tradition of throwing a party. When he passed the friends thru a party and the next year they asked people to donate money to offset the cost of food and beverages. When that party ended they had $30,000. So his friends took that money to his mom and said what do you want to do with it, so they started the Jacob Crouch Foundation and Crouchstock. And it has grown ever since. This year, Ronnie Milsap was the headliner. But the whole reason I'm telling you about this is because maybe you could get involved with this foundation or start your own in the name of your child. I may be overstepping my boundries, by even mentioning it, as I have never been closely effected by suicide, but this event made such an impact on me. It was amazing to see so many people come together and actually LEARN and take something away from it rather than just look at suicide with such a stigma. I'm sorry if I opened any wounds by mentioning this, but I hope you will at least check out the website.

To each and everyone of you I wish you peace and joy today and everyday.

Love & Light

Crystal- Meg's mom

[daveydow1]

Hello all Indigos....... haven't been able to do much on the internet lately.....too many thunderstorms....

Weak (or non-existent) sattelite signal.

Colleen-----I laughed when you wrote that Brian cut off the exhaust system of his Gram's car, so

it would be loud ! Just like an all-American 16 yr.-old boy might do. I know you had to get it fixed

to pass inspection, but Brian made his teen 'statement' with the car.

CJ-----I, too, think that you did the right thing in not doing the therapy for the little 5 mo-old baby

named Marley. It could possibly have been too emotional of a thing for you to endure. On this

wild and rough road we're on, sometimes the situation calls for an instant decision for us to

make, and we can only go with our 'gut' feelings. Wishing you peace, friend.

Pam----Oh, friend.....the 3 mo. mark is so very fresh and raw for losing a beloved child. I know

that you are in a lot of pain & sorrow now, and I'm so sorry. Sending thoughts & prayers.

Dee----Also, praying for Jon, that he is getting some noticeable relief from his herniated disc which

is causing severe back pain. Raining here all the time....very brief periods of sun, but not much.

(I'm being sure to take my Vit. D...... )....Ground is overly saturated, and can't be worked for

much planting. Our fields are still laying empty.....no corn planted yet. I picked a bouquet of lilacs

and put them in a crystal vase for the dining table. They were lovely while they lasted.

Rhonda----I know just what you mean about knowing that it would be better not to think of our child/children

all the time, but also agree, that sometimes, we do it anyways. So hard, I know. Peace & comfort.

Carol-----Yep.....we do find ourselves enjoying things again......along with the ever-present sadness we carry

all the time. I guess that we could look at this scenario.......If it were the other way around.....that we as the parents were

the ones who had left this world before our child/children......that we would want them to live their lives to the fullest,

and to enjoy life without us. Of course, for us, it did not happen that way. Nice that the RED SOX won the game.

Kathy---Good to see your post. Just follow your heart about whether to go to Jessica's friend's wedding or not. I

so understand your concerns.

PEACE & TRANQUILITY TO ALL INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[mysonrich]

Good to hear that some here may be able to take advantage of the camp. Colleen, sounds like a great idea for Aaron. I doubt there are age limits. I see they offer training. I sent off an email to see what I may be able to offer. There are times, many times though that I feel I am not strong enough to help. Breaking down and sobbing would be of no help but,they do need help in other areas.

Pam,let us know how it goes. Erin sounds like a wonderful person too. For a long time and still, I felt that if I had to smile, laugh, be cheerful at work and other places, I felt as if the veneer would crack and I would would crumble to the floor in a million pieces. I still feel as if my cheerfulness is an act at times. Social niceties. I'm sorry.

Rhonda, you could hear Rich driving up from a mile away . His last evening on earth was spent at a Metallica concert. His last email told me of his excitement and how this concert would be the awesome,biggest show he has been to yet. That sentence kicks me in the gut. So, in his obituary we included his passion for music, the louder-the better. The radio DJ I was listening to when I heard about the camp was someone we used to listen to on another station years ago. I wrote to the DJ and told him of our family history during his career. Makes me wonder . Anyway, crank it up!

Carol, I don't know what to say. Davis may need a super duper support system.

Dee, Sherry, Karen, Kathy,Carol, Trudi, Lorri,Lori, ..Indigo's...a rainy evening here, may we all sleep soundly.

[sadmomm]

Hi INdigos have not been on here in a while sometimes this site was down. Full of sadness... But hoping to get some energy to go play with the horses. Looked at Morgans photos when sometimes I cannot. Know I need to go on and find some peace here with my other children. But seperated them and made my life complicated by moving here.

It is nice to talk to all of you and read how you are all still sad but moving on somehow. Peace be with us somehow. It is still what wakes me up every morning... Have a hard time sleeping these days. know how i could have lived each day a lot fuller instead of the greed this man taught me and i lived and didn't seize the moment... had a chance blew it.. still alive for the other kids... Lee is worried i can tell. Cass is 16 and trying to live through the discontent of her parents bad relationship... Went to the councelor.. Didn't go on the drug perscribed in fear of the side affects and know i have to learn to cope with my choices in life..

the tenants screwed up the house with cat piss... sure you all want to hear about that... luckily i have new people who are excited and actually people instead of scum... when you don't lve that way you can't imagine anyone living that way.. guess what they doo.... sick...

hope to come back again soon.. it is comforting. Carrie

[ericasmom]

Carrie, it is good to know that you are still out there trying to find some light in your life. I am sorry that your 16 year old is struggling, maybe that camp that Betsy sent us would be beneficial for her. I know that you feel that you complicated your life by moving, is there a benefit to staying put or moving back? I know that money must be hard, it is here I know, lack of jobs for many...

CJ I was so startled by the name and age on the patient list! I gasped. I think too that this is a way to let you know that you are in the right place, you are where your gifts can be given and shared, she watches over her Dad adn is so very proud of you. You have a lot on your plate with moving too, but work is the place that you can shine again, and going on field trips with your kids. HOw nice. May the steps you are taking show you how strong you really are. You are.

Pam, the ache of time, and eventually it will be time that allows an ease in that ache. Hang tight Kiddo, we are here to walk along with.

Crystal, Meg's Mom, we have a walk around here called the Walk Out of Darkness. It is held at night and folks gather along the lakefront and walk all night into the light of day. It has grown over the years and is powerful for those who walk.I doubt you have offended anyone here with bringing this up, the more resources available, the better.

[mikesmomrs]

CJ: I agree, I believe it was your beautiful angel showing you that you are where you will bloom...at your work, dedicated to helping people. Your sweet little angel is watching over you.

Betty: Haven't seen your post lately; are you doing okay?

Crystal (Tylers mom): I do believe that Tyler gave you a gift when you turned on that movie...how sweet of him...sharing something with you that he and Lucy had shared.

Tony: I hope things are continuing to go okay for you...if those sad moments come, please remember that Brendan is with you, always, and is so very proud of you.

Betsy: Mike loved loud music too, and Metallica was the very first concert that he went to alone...we were worried sick, as sometimes things can happen and when you are alone, you are very much alone if something gets started. He did very well, though, and had a wonderful time. He wound up in the "pit" and getting a bandmember's guitar pick. We still have it...Cathi has it in a frame.

Carrie: It is good to know that you feel this is a place to come to for comfort...I am so sorry that you are having to deal with all that you are dealing with. Decisions we've made in the past sometimes can be changed...is this possible for you regarding moving?

Sherry: sorry to hear that it is still very wet and raining there, interrupting your planting plans. Rain is prevelant here, also...soaking, constant, cold. Sun is supposed to find its way back to these parts late Saturday/early Sunday. I hope the weatherman is right.

Andy's mom: Yes, the ups and downs are very much a part of this journey. I am sorry that you are on the "down" side right now, and pray you will find yourself in a better place soon.

We went to the services tonight for Davis's friend. It wasn't actually a service, though. It was originally to be held at the same funeral parlor that handled Mike's services, and I honestly did not know how I was going to wak in that door and offer comfort. Well, that worry was taken out of my hands when I found out today that there weren't actually any services. It was a "reception" at his mom's house, where people were asked to come by from 5 - 7. I've never seen it done this way, but it was better than having to go through the funeral parlor. We did go by the house, but only stayed a short while after offering our condolences, as many people were smoking, and they had a few cats, and with the dampness from the rain, Ralph had to leave very early, and I had to leave because of the cats. I told his mom that if she needed to talk, I was available at any time. They had a good turnout of his friends, and the friends were asked to write in a journal some of the stories they share about C, which they did. Of course, this always offers more memories to the family, and this was good. It was difficult seeing his mom's grief so raw and new, but she seemed to be handling things pretty well. It was the recognition in her eyes that threw me...as usual, the mask was on for the public, but I could see the pain that lived in her eyes.

Davis is doing better, though his friend B is taking it very, very hard. He can harldy hold himself up to walk. His dad's family is taking him back to their home, in Kansas, I think, for a week or so, and this may be enough to help him some. He is very fond of his step-sisters and brother, and perhaps this is a good thing for him.

Well, Ralph has been told by his primary care that he needs to be at Dartmouth Hitchcock on Monday morning, to be seen by the surgeon for possible removal of his gallbladder. His pcp seems to think it is something that needs to be done asap, and so made arrangements for the appointment right away. He said that because of Ralph's compromised breathing and now the much-reduced kidney function, he needs to be seen by a specialist there instead of locally. We are hoping that they can do it by laser, as I've heard this is the norm now, but we will have to see what the doctor says. His appointment is at 9:30 Monday morning, and it is a 2 1/2 hours or so drive, so we may go up on Sunday night. He is in a lot of pain at times, and even when he is isn't actually hurting, he is very uncomfortable. Of course, there is the added complication that his kidney function is so low, (supposed to be 35, and is hovering at 18, with 15 being kidney failure), but there is the plus that his weight is down significantly (last count was, I think, 108 lbs) and that will be a big help in his recovery. We can only go forward with the recommendations and weigh the risks and benefits, and then pray. And yes, I am scared, though I try not to be.

On a brighter note, Damon was here this afternoon and was his usual delightful self. I brought out a pair of skates I had gotten for him. When he saw what they were, he said "Oh, I don't do so well with those, nana." (Sarah had told us she had taken him to a roller skating arena, and they did manage to go around the rink three times, but it took them an hour and a half!) Well, these are basically "beginner" skates (they have two single wheels behind each other in the front, and a set of double wheels side by side in the back), and we let him practice on the carpet. At first he was all wobblies, but he did get the hang of it and eventually was brave enough to venture to the wooden floor in the dining room, where he did quite well. By the time Sarah came to pick him up (we usually take him home, but because of the services for B, we had to leave earlier, so she came here), he was going right around the house, through the living room on the carpet and then the dining room and kitchen which are wooden, back through the computer room, (carpet again), and grinning from ear to ear when he made it all the way around without help. We let him wear the skating gear we had gotten for when he's outside, and oh my gosh, he looked so cute, but it tore at my heart to see how fast he is growing. Thought I would share his pic...

Well, I guess I will try to sleep...perhaps it will come easier than it has the last few nights.

take care all, thinking of you and holding you all in my heart every day.

[Guest msnher]

CJ - I don't think I would have reacted as well as you did when you were given the little patient named Marley. You handled it with grace and class.

Carol - Please give Ralph a hug and kiss on the cheek from me. And, wrap your arms around yourself as a hug from me, too. I love you both dearly. My heart aches for Davis' friend's family. Lately I've taken to reminding myself that "I believe" because there just aren't answers for so many things and I believe seems to be the most I can get from myself.

Crystal (Meg's mom) - How sweet of you to take the time to let the group know about "Crouchstock". It's information that will be helpful to more than just the intended recipient. Thank you.

Dee -How's Jon's back? His spirits? You?

Not much to report. It is still cold and rainy here, like most of the country. I hope each of you find a moment of peace today.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[shorty16]

My Friends,

Carol - Thanks for keeping us informed concerning B. Every funeral is different. We had Brian's in the church we attended. I could not stand the thought of going to a funeral home, just could not do it. I am praying for Ralph. Hoping all goes well on Monday. Keep us informed, we care.

Carrie - Getting out of the house and doing something is very difficult in the beginning. But that is where the work comes in. Finding happiness is hard work for us, especially the first 2 years. Really try to get out and see the horses. Animals have a way of making us smile. Yes, it is hard, but that is how we move through the grief instead of having the grief envelop us and keep us from moving forward. Whisper to the horses, they will understand you...

Dee - Well, the weather yesterday was not too bad in the afternoon. The weekend is suppose to be overcast, but warm. Getting ready for Erifest? If it is ok with you, we would like to drive down again to see you.

Guess What??!!! My bleeding hearts are blooming. Remember, I live in the Great White North, where everything happens later. They are so pretty. I also fixed my bird-feeder from the wind that destroyed it. I placed the cemented bottom and the post in a large flower pot and filled it with rocks.. That bird feeder is not going anywhere!!!

Sus - How is Wyoming? Doing anything fun this weekend? How are the grandbabies and your wonderful husband?

Take care, my friends.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

Colleen - This weekend we are having Mariah's 10th birthday party at the house. There is also a bike (motorcycle) and tatoo convention or rally going on that I want to attend. I don't ride anymore but I still love the people. The kids are great. Jasmine is acting out more at school lately. She's been inappropriate sexually with other children. She has a counseling appt today. We have talked and talked to her until we're blue in the face. I spoke with her counselor on the phone after the last phone call from the principal and the counselor said it is now time to stop explaining and to enforce consequences...timeout, etc...like we would with any other infraction.

Jasmine has always acted out instead of vocalizing what's going on inside of her. When we got her she acted out by terrorizing our dog and throwing horrendous tantrums. Then her sleep was interrupted with screaming nightmares. She would be asleep and screaming and I would wake her up to calm her. As soon as her eyes would open she would recoil in terror, saying..."NO!" When she would realize it was me she would wrap her arms around my neck in a tight embrace. Then I would carry her to the oversized recliner and she would sleep on my lap. We did that for two months. I actually documented the first time she slept through the whole night.

This "new" acting out just began within the last few months. Her counselor and I think we know the incident she is "sorting through". Jasmine is remembering unconsciously, not consciously. And, even though it is sad and I get angry over it all, we still have to teach Jasmine right from wrong and that it's not okay for her to do what she's doing. Sheese, my little grandchild is the child the other parents want to keep their children away from.

We are taking a much firmer stance with Jasmine.

Hubby is great.

Thanks for asking. How's things with you?

Love you, Susannah

[bus1851]

Good morning everyone,

Home alone again and all the same feelings have returned. It is like a tape that just keeps replaying over and over no matter what I do to try and stop it I can't. Tuesday was 2 months since my Marley left and it seems like so much has happened since then. It's strange because in one way it feels like it happened so long ago and in another way like it was just yesterday. The emotions come and go, the intensity strong and weak, and the memories pull you in and out. I still can't believe she is gone, when my wife pulls into the driveway after school I look in the car for the car seat and start to walk out the door like I used to to get Marley out of the car , then I remember she is gone. Seeing that empty seat in the car hurts the most, I waited all day everyday for her to get home so I could get to see that beautiful smile and bring her in the house to play and act like a goofy dad. I miss her so much. I miss everything about being her dad. I hurt so much. Daddy loves you Marley.

Marleys dad CJ

[Guest msnher]

it's snowing

[crystalann]

Morning all,

Thanks for reminding me it could be a gift from Tyler.

Watching it was not my best decision.It had funerals in it.Made me start bawling and had to take a nap.

I miss you Tyler! Ilove you,mom

Love to all ,Crystal

[westleysmom]

Good grief, Susannah, I don't think I could make it in Wyoming. It's been cool here, but supposed to warm up today. I'm so sorry that Jasmine is having so much trouble dealing with all that has happened to her right now and know that it must be so hard to be firm with her, knowing as you do what she has been through and is still going through. Hugs to all of you and Happy Birthday to Mariah.

Carol-It sounds like you are being sent to the best place to be sure that Ralph gets the care he needs, I hope all goes well. Gallbladder trouble struck my daughter in the last trimester of her first pregnancy, after the point where they could do anything about it before the baby came. She was in a great deal of pain often in those last two months especially and really had to watch what she ate. After the baby came and her 6 weeks checkup, they did the laproscopic version of that surgery and she did very well. Of course, Ralph's situation is so much different, but I hope that if they decide to do the surgery, everything goes as good for him as it did my daughter. That Damon is growing up so fast, he looks so growny in the picture.

Carrie-You never know what you're gonna get with renters, sorry you had some bad ones. I've blown my share of chances, but I hope we get more chances to do the right thing, say the right words, make the right choices. Last night in the parking garage, we were getting ready to get in the car and a man came up and asked for money. I'd seen him in the stairwell when we left the restaurant and went to the garage level, and I thought he would approach us then, but he came up before we could get in the car. Both my friends headed for the car, and one of them told me to just say no before she got in. I hesitated, and reached in my pocket and got out a few singles that I'd gotten for change. I knew I probably shouldn't, but I gave them to him. He said God bless you before I got in the car. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know, a lot of people say no, but then I think about something where Jesus said that Whatever you've done for the least of these, you've done for me. I didn't want to miss a chance to do something for somebody, and I think we're given chances everyday. I don't always see them anymore, if I ever did, but I'm trying. Keep trying, Carrie. That's what we can do now. Looking at pictures is still very hard for me, young or old, seeing Westley alive and young and beautiful always makes me think "how long did he have to live when this picture was taken and why didn't I do something to stop it? Why couldn't I see it and change it?" Crazy I know, but its what I think and it kills me.

Pam-Les Mis was really good and I cried through a lot of the songs, including "Bring Him Home". It was long and we were late getting back, but it was worth it.

Betsy-I usually listen to a station now that Westley and the guys listened to while they worked. And sometimes I do crank it up. Can't do the rap music so much, but he had kind of gotten out of that stage, and the music on that station is pretty good, even some classic rock occasionally. When the kids were little and still went with us everywhere and the grownups were still in charge of the station, we listened to classic rock and would quiz the kids on who was singing. This passes for a culture lesson in the south. They got pretty good at the Beatles, Jimi, Lynrd Skynrd, you know, the basics. We would laugh when they got it wrong, and tell them who it really was. Sometimes even now when he's at work, my husband will call and just say "who sings Smoking in the Boys Room?" or something like that, and I know they're playing the game at work. Old habits die hard.Hell, as far as I can tell, everything dies hard.

Back at work, lots to do and putting it off won't get it done. Love to you all today, even where its snowing in May.

[crystalann]

We play that game too.In the car going places.They got really good with the bands you named.Two dollars to the winner.Good memories.

Some of you also mentioned the load cars.Tyler had the bumping stereo.He also cut the muffeler of every car he had.Always knew when he was almost home.When I hear the bump coming down the road I still catch myself looking for him.

[shorty16]

Sus - WOW - I do not know what to say. Other than Jasmine going to counseling and you and hubby being a strong united front. After what has happened to that little girl, I too would have a hard time being strict. But not being strict can have its own concequences - We are learning that with Aaron.

SNOW??? WOW X 2.

Scott and my Family are doing fine. Scott and Michelle are finally going to get their passports. As the kids are getting older, we want to travel and you cannot get back into the US without a passport.

Scott is really working hard on the yard. With the weather still cool, my seedlings are not growing as fast as I would like.

I have planted red sunflowers. Has anyone ever seen a red sunflower? I brought one to Erifest last year. The sunflower is a deep burgandy color - really pretty. Some are this deep burgandy with yellow streaks mixed in. They are a hybrid. The sunflower is my favorite flower.

I learned my sister is afraid of sunflowers. How can someone be afraid of a flower???? They freak her out, because they grow very large. These hybrids are smaller and have many flowers to one stalk.

Naughty me, I tease my sister saying "If you do not shape up, I will send my sunflowers after you!!

Too funny.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[crystalann]

Red sunflowers yes I had them last year. All the people around my house loved them.They are beautiful!

[ericasmom]

Colleen, does she feel stalked? Sorry, bad joke, had to do it...

I loved your burgandy sunflowers, LOVED THEM! YEs, come to Eri-fest if you can, still fixing the date...

SNOW? Crap. We did have frost the other evening. Yikes.

Sus, the sexuallizing is so hard to work with, I know having had students with similar issues and from my own past as well. Jasmine is lucky to have you working to help her find a way to honor herself and others. Once over stimulated, it cannot go back to what it was, so the rest has to do with self control, impulse control, and self monitoring. On one so young, it takes time to ingrain these lessons.

Crystal, did I say something about the suicide walk to the wrong Crystal?

[rlolheiser]

sorry for the lack of posts friends. I just don't feel I have anything to post anymore. I read quite often and my thoughts are always with you and your angels. On all the special dates that come by my heart says post but it just isn't in my ability anymore. I can't bring myself to continue pouring my heart out here as it is only sadness and complaints that are in my life. I don't feel I belong here to keep revealing my feelings. I have taken off the hero costume and am sending my 2 grands back home this saturday. It is the life I have to live.. the life I have chosen, and feel helpless to change. I miss my JaBoa and you would think after 5 years life would be good.. but I watch the other lives that are a mess since she left us and wonder why...a question that will never be answered. I am touched by all the new voices here, the new angels and I hope your journey becomes a little easier with time.

Thank you Dee, Carol, Betsy, Coleen, Susannah, Crystal, Rhonda, Trudi, Sherry, Karen, Greg, Kathy, Lorri, Betty all of you.. all the names.. all the angels. I wish you all peace and love

[briansdad]

This is from a friend I met at a conference.

PANACHÉ SPECIAL

May 20, 2011

The setting of a son is a dark time. Clouds obscure the moon, and I stumble through the time begging for stars. The wind is cold, stealing breath and motion, locking limbs, and cracking dreams.

I move, grappling with my soul, challenging God and the universe, demanding first answers then satisfaction.

You’d think this anger would warm me, but it only sours life, making life a bread without salt – flat, unsatisfying, but filling all the same.

It is January and life seems to be night, frozen darkness, despair; but I know that spring is coming and with it rebirth. Not able to avoid this frozen eternity, I move forward, crawling, limping, leaping, until soaring I find the son. Sometimes the son only peeks out between the clouds too far away to warm my face, but stepping forward I move towards the light, the possible, called hope and faith and life.

[daveydow1]

Carol----Yep---it's wet and cold here. All of April was rain except for 2 days.,,and not half of May....same thing .

Sending thoughts & prayers for Ralph for inprovement in his health. Also, prayers for Davis in the loss of

his friend. I, too, would not have been able to go to the same funeral home as Mike funeral. Just too difficult

to revisit the place where there is so many devastating & heartbreaking emotions attached. I just nearly cry

whenever we pass by in the car, the funeral home where Davey's funeral was held. I will never go into that

place again. Peace and comfort to you & your family, friend.

Colleen---I have a bleeding heart blooming too. I was surprised to see it blooming so nicely. I guess they

like this rainy/cool (cold) weather. They are lovely flowers, aren't they?

Susannah----My heart aches for little Jasmine and her problems at school. I so understand your anger

towards those who hurt her so badly. It's good that she has counceling now, and that her home is such

a loving place with you & your husband and her siblings. Bless her heart.

Greg----Nice writing....thanks for posting.

Dee-----I'm glad that you were able to give such good and educated views regarding Jasmine's problem. This

will help Susannah, I think.

[daveydow1]

Carol----Yep---it's wet and cold here. All of April was rain except for 2 days.,,and not half of May....same thing .

Sending thoughts & prayers for Ralph for inprovement in his health. Also, prayers for Davis in the loss of

his friend. I, too, would not have been able to go to the same funeral home as Mike funeral. Just too difficult

to revisit the place where there is so many devastating & heartbreaking emotions attached. I just nearly cry

whenever we pass by in the car, the funeral home where Davey's funeral was held. I will never go into that

place again. Peace and comfort to you & your family, friend.

Colleen---I have a bleeding heart blooming too. I was surprised to see it blooming so nicely. I guess they

like this rainy/cool (cold) weather. They are lovely flowers, aren't they?

Susannah----My heart aches for little Jasmine and her problems at school. I so understand your anger

towards those who hurt her so badly. It's good that she has counceling now, and that her home is such

a loving place with you & your husband and her siblings. Bless her heart.

Greg----Nice writing....thanks for posting.

Dee-----I'm glad that you were able to give such good and educated views regarding Jasmine's problem. This

will help Susannah, I think.

[daveydow1]

Carol----Yep---it's wet and cold here. All of April was rain except for 2 days.,,and not half of May....same thing .

Sending thoughts & prayers for Ralph for inprovement in his health. Also, prayers for Davis in the loss of

his friend. I, too, would not have been able to go to the same funeral home as Mike funeral. Just too difficult

to revisit the place where there is so many devastating & heartbreaking emotions attached. I just nearly cry

whenever we pass by in the car, the funeral home where Davey's funeral was held. I will never go into that

place again. Peace and comfort to you & your family, friend.

Colleen---I have a bleeding heart blooming too. I was surprised to see it blooming so nicely. I guess they

like this rainy/cool (cold) weather. They are lovely flowers, aren't they?

Susannah----My heart aches for little Jasmine and her problems at school. I so understand your anger

towards those who hurt her so badly. It's good that she has counceling now, and that her home is such

a loving place with you & your husband and her siblings. Bless her heart.

Greg----Nice writing....thanks for posting.

Dee-----I'm glad that you were able to give such good and educated views regarding Jasmine's problem. This

will help Susannah, I think.

[daveydow1]

OOPS..................Sorry for the triple post........Don't know how that happened, and

don't know how to fix it.....unfortunately. Wish I did.

[westleysmom]

Greg-It's beautiful and with the reference to January, the month Westley died, seems so fitting for me. Thanks

Leah-I just wanted to tell you how glad that I am to see a little word from you and know you're okay. That being said, I think that coming here to share should never be another chore that someone has to do. I know I am earlier in the process than you are, and still feel the need to talk sometimes, maybe more than anybody wants to hear me say. But the last thing any of us needs is something else to feel guilty about, not coming to post. Don't feel bad if you don't feel like posting. Hugs

Dee-Love your twisted sense of humor.

[Brendan's Daddy]

Hi everybody. I just wanted to check in and let everybody know that I was doing fine. I am in Florida with Michele and Jackson. I have been following posts on my phone, but unable to post myself. I finally was able to get a computer today. I hope you all are doing well. I wish I could respond to everybody, but I do not have time. Things are going ok in Florida. I miss Brendan constantly and I am always wondering what he would be doing if he was here with us. I am missing him so much, but living little by little. Jackson is having a great time. We fly back to WI tomorrow. Thinking about you all.

Brendan's daddy-Tony

[charsng1234]

just was checking in with everyone hope all is well.. I have been so busy and just so tired. Its been 4 months for shane! I can not still believe this..

bye for now sharon

[daveydow1]

Sharon----- The 4 month mark is so raw and painful.Hang on friend, and come to BI.

We're here for you. Peace & prayers.

Leah----I was off BI for awhile also, due to poor or non-existent sattelite signal...(cloudy,

and many thunderstorms).. It is entirely understandable when we just can't post, and

must take some time away from BI. I think most of us have done that. I pray that you

are doing ok with the family and all. While we miss those who have to step back a bit

and not post, we understand because we've done that also.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[aim630]

Well, it's happened again. Another freshman girl at my daughter's school killed herself last night. This is the 2nd one in 2 wks. The 2 girls were friends, but not close. This time we know the girl and her parents. My husband is on a soccer board with her father, and the girl played soccer on my daughter's team. In fact, she was taking over as goalkeeper next year (Katie's position the last 2 years). I just don't understand it. Such a pretty, popular girl (they both were). I just saw her two days ago and thought to myself how pretty she had become. It has hit Katie pretty hard. Her soccer coach came over & spent some time with her. Katie & Aubrey weren't that close, but with going through Ashley's death last year, it's really shook her up. I went to a parent's meeting tonight. One of the other soccer moms gave me a hug, and then I broke down in sobs. It's not that I knew Aubrey or her parents that well either, it's just the thought of what they are going through now. After the last girl killed herself, some of the other kids wanted to attend her funeral and were told on Facebook that they weren't close enough to Shannon, they should not attend, and would in fact beat them up if they did. What is wrong with kids??? How could they bully other kids from attending her funeral? I just don't get it. I told Katie no matter what happened, she could get through it, and nothing is as bad as it seems, and she could make it through anything. I hope she realizes that.

Sorry, I haven't had time to read the other posts. Know that I'm thinking about all of you. They are holding calling hours the same day as graduation. Of course, that's not the first thing on their minds. Hopefully later in the day, so we can attend. I am afraid to go, but know I need to support Katie.

I saw Ashley's best friend for the first time since her funeral (she lives in NYC), and the times she's been home since then, we just couldn't face each other, it was too painful without Ashley. I hugged her today, and she is supposed to be home for Katie's graduation

party.

Sorry, I haven't had time to read the other posts. Know that I'm thinking about all of you.

Amy/Ashley's mom

[lolynbo]

HEY GUYS IM HERE FEELING NEXT MONTH CREEPING IN, HOHUM......HUGGGS TO ALL

[ericasmom]

Lorri, hold onto us, we will get you through the times best we can. When is the cruise?

amy, I am so sad that you and your daughter and all the kids have to deal with yet another suicide, the poor family. We have had similar things here in the past, one then another then two together, and all we can wonder is what could have been different to make them stay...and those are questions that have no answers for the most part. I am sad for the Girl to have been that despondent over her life, and for her family to be flattened by such absolute horror.

I am glad that Kate's coach came to see her, to realize how this must affect her and you. My heart to the family, to you, to all involved.

Jonathan is beginning to feel some relief, thank heavens. He was able to walk outside a bit today, to sit as passenger in the car for some errands...his voice has some animation in it...of this I am most thankful, to all of you for your positive energy...may he continue to heal.

Tony, so good to know that you are in Florida, that you are seeing Jackson enjoy himself and that you are able to take part in that. Good for you guys.

Leah, I was sad to read your post knowing that you are not planning to be here for a while, but I totally get it. I left for a long stint, maybe a year, cause I could not read about more sadness back then, I was going through PTSD and just could not handle it. I hope that when things in your world even out, that you too will come back. We love you. You need to do what is best for your life now and so as you do, know that I am holding your hands.Good luck Sweetie.

[lolynbo]

Thanks dee. Not til august. It's the weather too rainy and gloomy. Anything triggers it as yal know

I hate to hear of these kids committing suicide. So sorry for them with whatever they thgt couldn't be fixed and then now their families pain. The unanswered questions and of course the possible finger pointing. Also hating the bullying for the funeral. Prayers for all them

What about this tx woman killing her child I read Thr story seems like some things don't add up. Ggggggzz

[shorty16]

Amy - I just cannot believe it!! 2 suicides in 2 weeks?? My heart is crying for those families. We know the journey they have just started. We all know how difficult it is to go to funerals after our own kids have died. Glad you are there to support your daughter. I am saying a prayer for the families.

Tony - So glad you can find some joy in Florida. And glad you are OK. I was a bit worried when we did not see any posts from you. Please remember, if you need help moving - my family would be happy to help.

Lorri - I am right there with you. We have our child's angel dates within 2 days of each other. But our times leading up to that date are so different. You and your fam went through hell for 7 months before Kourtney died. My family was happy until 9:38pm 6-19-2008. Then our world fell apart. I am thinking of you my friend.

Sherry - Yes, the bleeding heart bush is so beautiful. A sad note, our cardinal nest lost their babies. I do not know how. I could not see any damage to the nest. The babies were just gone. It is early enough in the season for them to lay another clutch. But the nest by my front door is now abandoned. We still see the parent cardinals.

Sharon - Thanks for checking in with us. Even if it is for a short time. I hope you read and get something from our posts.

Dee - So glad that Jon is doing better. Back problems can be a real bummer. I will continue to pray for him. How are your flowers doing? Mine would be alot happier if the weather was warmer. My seedlings are just still so small. But once the sun warms the soil, the sunflowers will start to grow.

Rhonda - I too loved Greg's post. A story of total grief and slow recovery. We will never recover from the loss of our children, but we can learn to live again. Sorry the mice ate through parts of Westley's car. Seeing Brian's car in the driveway was painful for me. But now Aaron is using it.

Greg - Thanks for the poem. How is that beautiful grandchild of your's doing?

Well, Scott and I have made a therapy appointment for Aaron. We have not told him yet. Yesterday, a teacher at the school called. She informed us the Aaron was running down the hall yelling and she stopped him and asked him to sit down and calm himself. To make conversation, she said "I had Brian in my Art class and his was a good artist." Aaron preceeded to stand up and yell at her. "You do not need to talk about Brian." She said "Why, Brian was a fun kid" Aaron punched the door and said "Don't talk about him" and he took himself to the office.

For some reason, Aaron does not want anyone at school talking about Brian - at all. When I asked Aaron why, his reply was "They are not our family, they do not need to talk about him." I told Aaron that this was a compliment that they still think about him. He replied "They are not our family, they do not need to mention him."

WOW

I was floored. Brian's name is music to my ears. If the teacher would have said that to me, I would have jumped at the chance to hear why she thought Brian was a good artist and share some funny stories I am sure she had with him.

We made the appointment and told Aaron that he may need help controlling his anger before he is allowed to get his lisence. Aaron will be 18 on Nov 17, 2011.

I am just stunned at his response.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

Dear Indigo's;

My heart is heavy reading that another young person has chosen to end their life. Despair. Despondent. Depression. Hopeless. Fear. Loveless. None of which we want our children to feel. "Don't kill yourself, it will get better." We shout to them, hoping they hear us. And, yet, when they are in that dark, very dark, place, they can't hear.

We become hypervigilant, searching, watching, trying to catch any clue that our child might be that depressed. More often, however, we don't see any signs. We don't because there aren't any. We don't notice the signs until after they're gone. Then we spend the rest of our lives torturing ourselves because we missed it.

An emotionally healthy person will say that suicide is the most selfish act a person can take. A permanent solution to a temporary problem. The suicidal will say differently. They will say it is the most loving thing they can do. Or they will think that as much as their death will hurt the world will be a better place. Or the pain in them is so bad they see no other way out. They believe their pain is greater than any pain they could inflict on others with their passing. I believe that most of the time successfully suicides are actually the consequence of compulsive behavior. Sometimes an act of vengence...not really thinking it all through.

The fact is suicide was a viable solution for them. It is not an act of cowardess. It takes a lot of guts to complete a suicide.

How do we instill hope in someone who sees no hope? How do we help them through the dark night of their soul? We tell them things will get better. We try to instill the fear of God in them. Whatever it takes.

I don't have the answers. I know what my 18 yr old nephews suicide did to our family, to my sister - his mother. I also know how I felt 8 yrs ago when I unsuccessfully, but quite seriously, tried to take my own life. I counted the days after my failed attempt. "I would have been dead for a week now". "They would have had my funeral by now". "They would be getting over it by now". Being depressed was a step up from where I was that day.

Selfishly, I must admit that it is not the fallout of pain that would hit the people that love me which made me decide to live, no matter how pitifully, instead of try to take my life again at the next available chance. No, it was something much more powerful. Much more unbelievable. Much, much more frightening.

There were probably a few seconds before I hit that "it's too late to save her" stage in my suicide attempt. I went to a very dark place. Literally. It wasn't scary or evil. There were no demons waiting to torture me for eternity, an idea I believed to be true before I began my suicide (hell seemed a better option than what I was living at the moment). I was alone in this dark space and I was allowed to see the reaction of each of my children as they received the news of my death.

Stephanie went completely apecrazy. She could not be consoled. Amanda was quiet and angry and called me a coward and hated me for what I had done. Curtis blamed himself. Took it all on.

In those few seconds I changed my mind. I had that choice. So many don't have that choice. Even seeing what I saw I still hated myself for not going through with it. I called myself a coward. "They would have gotten over it eventually" I said over and over. But, I HAD to live...it was my punishment for being born. Living.

I believe there is a day of accounting and/or judgment we each go through when we live this earth plain. And, I believe if we have ended our journey here, we will be given another opportunity to "do it again". Same lessons. I also believe that before that day comes, we have to stick around and watch and try to help the people we've hurt by taking our life. There is a debt to pay. And, that would be the natural consequences, in my opinion. Kind of like failing a grade...you get to repeat the grade until you pass the course. I realize I am in the minority with my views. But, my belief is enough to push me through to another day breathing. No way in hell do I want to do THIS again.

Maybe the way to get through to kids is to begin talking about what happens if their suicide succeeds??? What do they think will happen in their life if they kill themselves? What do they think happens to their soul? Do they think they just stay dead? A lot of people believe that. Do they think they get to go live happily ever after in heaven? Do they think they get stuck in some kind of pergatory?

How do we teach the lesson that this life is really very short in the scheme of eternity? The pain seems like it will last forever. It does seem like a hard/difficult life. And, indeed, for many of us it has been just that. Extremely difficult with moments of reprieve.

This life has been too hard for me to choose to do it again...and I believe that's what happens when we leave too early.

Sometimes things are as bad as they seem. Sometimes it doesn't get better. What do we teach our children to do in those circumstances? We have to teach them to find their inner strength in the face of great adversity.

We tell them how to feel. Maybe it's time we listened to how they feel. I don't know. I have no answers. I just know my heart breaks.

Thanks for listening. Susannah

[Guest msnher]

My life's story is unbelievable even for me (and my sisters). Severe abuse of every kind as a child. Being ripped from my family and raised in foster homes. My brother in law and nephew drowned. My other nephew from the same sister killed himself. My grandmother was beaten, raped and buried alive. Two of my children's drug addiction. My grandchildren taken, hidden and severely abused for over a year. Fighting the court system to save them. My daughter's death. Not to mention all the mistakes I made.

And, I still have hope. I still believe.

THIS life is worth living. Now. I would never want to do it again, but I'm glad I did it this time around.

Love is always the answer.

[shorty16]

Susannah - What a great insight you have.

Instead of just telling our children not to commit suicide, we should tell them what would happen if they did?

That thought is the only thing that kept me alive after Brian's death. I could not imagine inflicting this depth of emotional and physical pain on my family. I never knew this depth of pain existed!!! The physical pain I had because of Brian's death was overwhelming. I never realized grief came with physical pain.

My Mother died 4 months before Brian. That was painful. I lost one of my best friends. But here is how that went. Before my mother knew she had cancer, she was not the most pleasant person to be around. I could do not right. We butted-heads alot.

After my mother discovered she had breast cancer (non-responsive, agressive). She changed. She decided to live a happy life. The last 3 years we had together were the best we ever had. I would not have changed this path. She tought me that you can live and be happy in the face of death. I really think God was preparing me for what was about to happen.

Thanks Sus, what a great person you are - I love you man!!!

Colleen

[Guest msnher]

Colleen - I don't know if telling them what happens after a suicide works either. I just know what finally worked for me. But everyone's beliefs are different. Jehova's witnesses believe you just stay dead. I would think that's a good plug for suicide. LOL

Christians beleive they're recieved into the loving hands of Jesus. Which I also believe, but believe you still have to come back to take the class you quit. But, if being received into the loving hands of Jesus was the final act, that also is a good plug for suicide.

I really don't know the answer. I think the answer lies in listening to them. Getting them to talk to us, to somebody. Letting them know their opinions are valid. Maybe getting them to reason for themselves. How many of us learned from others mistakes? How many of our children did? I was a drunk, you would think that, alone, would scare my children into being straight. Didn't. I think we have to somehow value their intelligence.

And, if that doesn't work, perhaps we can scare the hell out of them. That never worked either. Not for me, not for my kids.

What I hope to instill in my grandchildren is a sense of self value. I am already beginning to teach them to meditate, to find the power within...the light within. The strength within. I say that and know that this morning I was snapping at them and trying to get them to hurry and get dressed, brush your teeth, put on your shoes, wash your face. "How many times do I have to tell you to put on your shoes?" I yelled at them. All the while Mariah is trying to talk about her birthday....Jasmine is busy trying to find pants...Jonathon wants to wear shorts instead of pajamas (it's pajama day for him) but it's still cold and he can't wear shorts.

Not wanting any of them to slip through the cracks and knowing they slip through my cracks sometimes....and then hoping they figure it all out for themselves as they mature. Hoping the powers that be will put just the right people in their path to guide the way, especially when I fail.

As for Aaron, I love that boy and I've never met him. I'm glad you're taking him to a couselor. Is it wrong for him to tell others they can't talk about Brian? Is that his way of exercising some control over the situation? I don't know that either. I do know there are some people I don't want to hear about Stephanie from. I'm old enough to let them talk, but I get very defensive. Sometimes I have to walk away. Perhaps you can share some of the insights the counselor shares with Aaron?? I would like to know a better way to respond.

Back to suicide: We say that suicide is not an option. But, if it weren't an option no one would do it. The fact is it is an option. A very sad option with drastic consequences.

After James died (my nephew who killed himself) I went nuts. I was just his aunt but his death almost destroyed me. I went straight to a bottle of pills and a bottle of booze and stayed there for 11 years. During that first year I could literally hear James behind me saying, "Annie, you don't have to live like this!" He pleaded with me as I would overdose on pills again saying, "Annie, it doesn't have to be this way!"

It was when I sobered up that I began reading near death experiences and read that suicides have to stick around to help those who have been hurt by their death. Because my own experience with James I believed it. They don't have to stay indefinitely, just long enough to try to help.

But, the thought of having to come back and live this again? Nope. That's enough to keep me taking that next breath.

Love you! Susannah