Loss of an Adult Child

[ericasmom]

Hi AGain before I go to bed, just checking to make sure you are all still here. Oh that dream Crystal was a hard one, but I had you all with me even if I could not see the faces of your dear ones, or see your words, I felt the comraderie, and that is undeniably one of the best things to feel, even if I can't spell it.

Rhonda, I see how the comment made you feel, and not knowing the tone in her voice makes me wonder how she said it, but on the other hand, I was taking it the way Sus did, that something about Westley's services allowed her to free something in her spirit up, to live anew. Westley helping out and inspiring others. I know that seeing the lives of his friends go on is bittersweet. I loved and still love knowing how Eri's friends are doing, and now that they are having babies and moving about, I wonder where she would be, who she would be at this point in her life. She would be almost 27.

I am glad Kath, that Tav had his session with his therapist. Good for everyone on that one. Prayers to your family in thought of Billy. May he smile on you all to let you know that he is still around.

Peace to All as I go shut my eyes. We have overnight guests for two nights now, so I have not had much time. But I sure love you all,

dee

KOURTNEY DEAREST,

Your spirit soaring among your family and friends, letting them feel your presence and your constant love. Bless them with your sweet ways, wrap them up in your smiles, in your hugs and laughter. Let them feel it all and know that you will always be a part of their lives.

Lor, in the photo at the cemetery, what kind of birds were flying overhead? Magical.

[lolynbo]

I DONT KNOW DEE THEY CAME OUT OF KNOW WHERE...IT WAS PRETTY NEAT...THANK YOU FOR THE SWEET BIRTHDAY WISHES...

[ericasmom]

That was Kourtney Lor, I felt such peace looking at the birds, their shapes and their majesty, maybe it was she with our angels too.

[mikesmum]

Glad to see the boards back up. Its kinda like having to breath without your oxygen supply....we hold our breath in the alternate world in which we once lived till we can exhale and breath in back where we are 'home'.

Dee - The subconscious takes us places each night. Sometimes we remember sometimes we don't..I can imagine the heaviness in your heart this morning waking with such disturbing thoughts and feelings. I have daymares like that. My mind wonders and I find myself thinking, 'did he really die or are they keeping him from me'. Did he just walk by me, I'm sure it was him...Or my all time tie myself up in knots.....what if he was just there, in reach and I blinked, I missed him.....Hoping tonight you sleep the sleep of the innocents.

Kathy - Hugs and hearts to you in this shiteful month of Feb. Glad to hear Tavian and pop pop got to do the boy thing today. Glad he's seeing Rebecca.

February sees my baby boy Steven turn 33. We did a brunch last Sunday with both kids and exended families. These 'gatherings' scream 'there is no Micheal'. But this time his name wasn't mentioned. Steven gets it. The hugs are a little tighter, we hold on that little bit longer and always as before I tell him I love him....and he me.

Tonight was Emily's 'Time Capsule' planting at her high school. They were asked to make a Passport, a timeline of major events in their lives to date, included in this Envelope were letters from family and friends. Em also made a tick list of what she likes now in movies, music, clothes etc. She put in a magazine she reads & a pair of crazy sunnies. As I read her time line I felt my emotions well up. Major events in her timeline, March 99 came to live in Melbourne with Granma. May 2005 Nanna (my mum) dies. January 2007 Uncle Micheal dies.

After blowing the nose, we headed to the auditorium for the introduction to music and the school band. Each student is given the opportunity to learn a musical instrument and become part of the schools music program. Em tried the flute, clarinet and alto sax. She made beautiful music with the flute...couldn't remember ever having picked one up before Lauren used to sit with Em and Mike playing the flute...a haunting sound. She would let a very young Emily try to play it with much giggling....

Ahh Granma feels ooolllllddddd.

Well the studies begun in ernest. This week two assignments on Psychology and Statistics...might even need to read some of the text books.

Night all from a very emotionally drained...ain't we all... Trudi.

[dwsmithrn]

morning indigo friends...i can't say 'good' on the front of morning, yet, because i don't feel 'good' ...is it a 'good' day and will it ever be a 'good' day without my nathan? when will it ever be a 'good' day? i ponder that question day after day after day and into the nights...when i wake, if i sleep at all, the first thing out of my mouth (outloud) is "i miss you, nathan"....i want him to hear me...i want him to come back...i want him back....i feel selfish, because i know he must have been in some kind of terrible pain to leave us like he did....and i wonder, did he know how much terrible pain he left me in when he left us?

so many unanswered questions, so much pain, so much anguish, so much sadness...i know i will never be the same again....i miss him.

i have 2 sisters...one i thought i was very close to...we spent alot of time together, as we only live about 2+ hours apart and visited quite often...she somehow can't understand that grief takes alot out of me and i don't feel like getting out of bed, or going anywhere, or facing people, or doing anything of importance these days....the other sister, lives 12 hours away, she had been a good friend, supports me, lets me cry and makes my grief feel important. they both have children, so i don't understand how one can feel so differently about the grief of losing a child....why the one would expect that in 5 1/2 short weeks, i would be expected to "move on", so the speak....so when i speak to her, i feel like i have to "pretend" i am doing ok....the other sister lets me talk, vent, cry and express my grief, as does my mother, my friends, my husband....do you think that the one sister just can't handle that type of grief, or what? i don't say anything to her, as i don't want to burn any bridges, as my husband says, or don't want to strain that relationship, as my family has always been so close....even my brother has been supportive in my grief...i fear this sister is just not handling my grief....she is fearful for me and trying to

i don't know, "make me better" somehow....but people, IT AIN'T HAPPENING... i want my child back, i cry, i stay in bed, i can't get out of my house....i hurt, i am sad, and i grieve in the worst possible way.....someone please help me find a way to explain this to my sister without offending her....

thanks.....diane, mother of nathan, always and forever

[nicksdad]

Late...SORRY

[ModKonnie]

morning indigo friends...i can't say 'good' on the front of morning, yet, because i don't feel 'good' ...is it a 'good' day and will it ever be a 'good' day without my nathan? when will it ever be a 'good' day? i ponder that question day after day after day and into the nights...when i wake, if i sleep at all, the first thing out of my mouth (outloud) is "i miss you, nathan"....i want him to hear me...i want him to come back...i want him back....i feel selfish, because i know he must have been in some kind of terrible pain to leave us like he did....and i wonder, did he know how much terrible pain he left me in when he left us?

so many unanswered questions, so much pain, so much anguish, so much sadness...i know i will never be the same again....i miss him.

i have 2 sisters...one i thought i was very close to...we spent alot of time together, as we only live about 2+ hours apart and visited quite often...she somehow can't understand that grief takes alot out of me and i don't feel like getting out of bed, or going anywhere, or facing people, or doing anything of importance these days....the other sister, lives 12 hours away, she had been a good friend, supports me, lets me cry and makes my grief feel important. they both have children, so i don't understand how one can feel so differently about the grief of losing a child....why the one would expect that in 5 1/2 short weeks, i would be expected to "move on", so the speak....so when i speak to her, i feel like i have to "pretend" i am doing ok....the other sister lets me talk, vent, cry and express my grief, as does my mother, my friends, my husband....do you think that the one sister just can't handle that type of grief, or what? i don't say anything to her, as i don't want to burn any bridges, as my husband says, or don't want to strain that relationship, as my family has always been so close....even my brother has been supportive in my grief...i fear this sister is just not handling my grief....she is fearful for me and trying to

i don't know, "make me better" somehow....but people, IT AIN'T HAPPENING... i want my child back, i cry, i stay in bed, i can't get out of my house....i hurt, i am sad, and i grieve in the worst possible way.....someone please help me find a way to explain this to my sister without offending her....

thanks.....diane, mother of nathan, always and forever

Diane,

Maybe you should just tell your sister how you feel right now, and how you NEED to grieve and how much you NEED her support. I'm sure she is trying to "fix" things to make them right for you, and she doesn't realize how this is affecting you.

ModKonnie

[dwsmithrn]

Diane,

Maybe you should just tell your sister how you feel right now, and how you NEED to grieve and how much you NEED her support. I'm sure she is trying to "fix" things to make them right for you, and she doesn't realize how this is affecting you.

ModKonnie

thanks. maybe i will try next time she calls and see how that goes....i just feel so vulnerable and sometimes 'under attack' myself...but i should be the one to defend my grief, right? thanks....diane

[charsng1234]

hello everyone. does anyone know how long it takes before those ugly feelings in your stomach don't hurt so much....It is every morning I feel like I cant go on anymore.. the pain is worst thing i ever felt!!

[Guest msnher]

Good morning Indigo's...

Lorri - I did not forget Kourtney's birthday. I posted a birthday wish on BI because I was able to log on, but it's gone now. Please know you and your family were in the forefront of my thoughts all day.

Diane -There are no words to describe this kind of grief to someone who has never lost a child. It is my opinion that it can't be explained to someone who doesn't get it. I think we have to state our truth simply and directly, not for their benefit, but for ours. It is hard for "them" to accept the fact that we will never be the same again. I don't think it is possible for us to try to pretend we are the same...not in those early months anyway. The person you were, the one that was so close to your sister, no longer exists...your relationship will have to change to accommodate this new you...it might grow stronger and it might just dwindle to trivial niceties...but, it can't stay the same. It's unfortunate that while we are in so much pain we have the added loss of relationships to deal with...or rather, the changing of relationships. My prayers are with you.

As a side note, I just want to say that before Stephanie died I had no clue. I thought I did. I mean, I knew I didn't know the pain of losing a child, but I thought I had deep understanding and empathy. I thought I was a source of strength and comfort. Now I realize I was mostly full of ca-ca. My intentions were good, but I am sure I brought about more pain in my desire to help people "move on".

What I've learned since Stephanie died is not everyone who asks how you're doing really wants to know. I have learned to put on my mask for my protection, not theirs. I don't really care if they can handle my pain or not, what I care about is exposing myself to their lack of understanding...I've walked away enough times feeling more exposed and vulnerable after trying to explain that it's just not worth it. My grief is too intimate...too sacred...to expose it to just anyone and everyone. If I need to, I do...but, I am much more cautious, for my own sake, than I was in the beginning. In the beginning I didn't know I had to be cautious...but, now I know.

Gotta go...love you all!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[dwsmithrn]

sus...thanks for the reply, and it all makes sense...i will keep it all in mind....i do feel like i need to walk away, and that is why i stay in my house and away from people in general, i don't want to be confronted, period...'they' don't understand...'they' don't get it...it's lonesome in this empty shell...and things that are said or done, or not done, are hurtful.....i feel like i only have my indigo friends right now...so, i'm glad i found you.....diane

[westleysmom]

Diane-My relationships with my sisters have changed too. We all have kids, but my eldest sister's kids were more like Westley, more unpredictable, lets say. Our kids got in more fights and more trouble and she understands better what I'm going through. She says she sometimes can't believe her boys made it through all that growing up alive. And mine didn't. But my other sister's boy never got in much trouble or anything, I don't feel as much like she understands (as much as you can unless it has happened to you) what I'm going through. I hope you are able to talk to your sister without feeling like you have to "defend" your grief, although that sounds like what you'll be doing. My heart is with you as you walk this path of grief. I saw a quote from Lena Horne on the awards show thing the other night. It said

"It's not the burden that breaks you, it's how you carry it."

I don't know if that's strictly true, but there is some truth to it, I believe. I wish you strength today to carry your burden. Speaking of the awards show, I hadn't realized that Rabbit Hole had gotten Nicole Kidman a nomination for best actress. I never watched it, but maybe I will now. I didn't mean to be so short about Westley's funeral helping someone, if she's lost two kids, I really am glad it helped her. I just would have wanted to help her some other way, any other way. Do you think that everyone has an epiphany eventually? That something happens for everyone who has lost a child or other loved one, that just makes you move beyond that barrier of constant regret and disbelief that this really happened and you must live with the reality of it? Is that what we're really looking for, our revelation?

Dee and Amy-I hope your dreams weren't too bad that they put you off sleeping. I love my sleep, I hope I don't get where I can't do it.

Kathy-I didn't realize your brother had died, and so close to Jessica's date, I'm so sorry. I know you are glad we are out of February finally. Who could imagine that the shortest month could seem so long?

Betty-Keep that cell phone charged so you don't get too far out of pocket.

Love to you all as always. I missed you these past few days and getting to busy time at work so may not get to post as much.

[crystalann]

hello everyone. does anyone know how long it takes before those ugly feelings in your stomach don't hurt so much....It is every morning I feel like I cant go on anymore.. the pain is worst thing i ever felt!!

I still feel it it was 8 weeks yesterday! I cried for 15 hours i didnt know that was posible. I wake every day hurting wake up my younger kids and wait for them to leave before i break down. when i looked at new members this morning Tylers girlfriend Lucy is here. She is under Lucypott32 if anyone can help her please do she needs it. Thanks Crystal

[ericasmom]

Diane Wrote: i fear this sister is just not handling my grief....she is fearful for me

I agree with what others have said Diane, it probably isn't that she expects you to be normal again, but is afraid for you, for her too. She is mourning the loss of her sister, of you. And yes, I think either writing to her and telling her how you are feeling about her expectations or calling her might be a good idea. If you make the call or send the letter, you are in more control of the situation as you are the one putting into action your thoughts. You express yourself well in writing, so maybe she can hear you best this way. My sisters too had to find ways to relate to the new me. I am close to them both, still am but we had to cover some ground about who I was now. I was and sometimes still am with-holding of some of my ache with my sis Eileen as she tends to go so deeply into depression, which I don't seem to be as prone to. You can tell your sis that you know that she would like to think o fyou being active in your life again, but as far as you can see right now, it is not happening, maybe one day, but that day is not in the immediate future adn that you will have to take each hour at a time. In many ways those that love us most are sometimes the most impatient as they really are also mourning, but want assurances that the world will be right again. To us, the world is not right again, we make our new lives out of the dust and ash and memory and hope that we find along the way. ( I promise that one day, not for a while, there will be hope inside you again). As Sus and Kathy said, no matter our experiences with grief before we lost our BABY/BABIES, nothing prepares one for so great a loss, for the loss of the daily world, the loss of the spin of the earth, and one thing I have said to others whose expectations are far beyond what I could manage or want to manage, " have you forgotten the birth of your child? NO? Have you gotten over the joy of the birth of that child? NO? Well then, why in heaven's name would you ever expect me to get over the death of my Child?"

shuts them up pretty good and it makes folks think. We don't want anyone to know this kind of ache and despair, but we do expect from them the space to grieve, the space and respect to have been changed.

Sharon,in addition to the ache our bodies take on in response to grief, the physical ache in your stomach is probably in part the acid your body is producing in absence of food, we produce acid no matter if we feed ourselves or not, and I do believe you said you are not eating nor sleeping much, so that acid could be causing damage to your stomach. Try to eat some crackers every half hour or so and try to drink some ginger tea.(oyster crackers are easy to digest and do not require a lot of thought.) It is not delicious, but it soothes the stomach almost magically fast. It is worth a try. So then try to eat a little piece of cheese or some kind of protein on those crackers later on today, you need some fuel, remember, the body is a machine and it needs to be at least minimally maintained. I know it feels futile to fix some things on our own bodies when we have lost our Child, but try to think of what he would want most for you right now...

Trudi, I am touched by Em's time capsule piece, she will never forget her Uncle Mike. Never,( MEERKATS after all.) Happy Birthday to that Boy Stephen.

[hotrod]

Hi Indigos

Dear Dee I am so very sorry about the painful dream you experienced . Eri is right there with all our Indigo angels watching over you and smiling. Thanks for coming in last night and "Tucking us in" I really missed that when the Board was down

Trudie Guess I missed the fact that you had returned to school Good Luck What will Sir Mutley do while you are away

Dan Lovely tribute to Kourtney Thank you

Diane, I understand how painful the loss of Nathan, is.Cryatal the loss of Shane is the same The missing, the sadness, the wanting . The devastation is relentless. I found talking about Stephen here, posting pictures of him as a child helped to lift some of the missing Setting up his Memorial site also helped focus my sadness in a constructive way You, Shane's mom and all the new moms are in my thoughts

Rhonda and Karen I understand not being able to feel gladness for Westley's and Shawn's friends new growth and new life I still feel that way Even when I am with family the sadness seems overwhelming

Carol I saw the Care page on Ralph and am glad all went well with the check up

Betsy Hope your BP is holding at an acceptable level

Leah Sus Kathy, Colleen, Beth, Sonya, Sherry and all Indigos in my thoughts

[Guest msnher]

Rhonda - I didn't think you were short about the friend's "epiphany". I knew you would have preferred she found comfort in another way. I just think it speaks volumes of you and the services for Westley if it brought that much comfort who knows this nightmare so well. But, in that same breath, isn't that what we all do, here at BI? None of us are glad the other is here because we know the price that was paid, but I am so grateful I don't have to walk this path alone....and, yet I feel so horrible that anyone else has to walk this path at all.

Epiphanies? Hell! I've had so many I'm all ephiphanied out! LOL That's why I asked if the friend's change has lasted. No matter what insight I receive or who visits me, the one fact remains...my child is still gone. So far, nothing has been stronger than that fact. Perhaps each new revelation helps me grow a little bit until the next revelation and then the next and then the next. But, I don't think I will be completely whole again until I am reunited with my child.

As for the pain in your gut....that searing, stabbing, piercing pain. I remember that pain. There are times it hits, still, but mostly it is gone. It has settled into a hollow absense where the wind can blow through and sometimes feels the warmth of the sun. There are times my breath is still sucked out of my chest but not like in those early days when there was no reprieve from the sheer force of loss. Hang in there...talk about it...let the pain express itself (without hurting yourself - as long as it harms no one) trying to contain that pain or ignore it would be like trying to capture a hurricane. Remember, your grief DEMANDS your attention, and it will get it...sooner or later it will be heard. Grief is not pretty to look at. And, yet it takes the most beautiful part of us and throws it out there for the world to see. It will come back to you...cracked, broken, shattered...and somehow stronger. Grief will change your priorities, rearrange your soul, question everything you thought you knew. Grief forces you to look the divine in the eye. Some walk away with stronger faith...some with none...some just changed. The process is the most painful thing any of us will ever go through, but you will survive. I don't know when the constant pain in my gut left...but it did.

Love to you all!

[Guest msnher]

One tidbit of information I learned from my grief counselor yesterday. He and his wife visited Jerusalem. The were shown a place where there are several graves with bones of infants in the graves...they were told those were the bones of the baby boys killed when Jesus was born. Intermingled with those bones are several adult female bones. They are thought to be the mothers of the children. The mothers who tried to protect their children. I'm not big on the bible, but there is a scripture that says, after the children were killed, "The mothers would not be comforted."

[Crystal16]

Good morning my friends,

I find myself shouting Ashlee’s name ever day hoping and anticipating she send me a nugget or two.

Trial starts in a couple weeks, I’m so anxious to start the process and hear evidence and details about my daughter’s death.

Diane- I can relate to your family frustration when it comes to your sister. I too have one that for whatever reason can’t handle my rollercoaster of emotions. She is for the most part a selfish, self centered person so when the focus is off her and her problems she can’t be bothered. I learned fairly quick that if my sister can’t seem to understand that I don’t want to pretend and I want to scream today and I’m angry just because… then she can go away!!!

I am thinking of Betty, Betsy, Leah, Rhonda, Susannah, Dan, Greg, Trudi, Michelle, Crystal, Amy, Lorri, Karen, Sherry, Kathy, Sharon, Dee and your Angels today.

[ericasmom]

Crystal, I would think that you are anxious to say the least about the trial coming up. We are holding your hands and your heart as you go forward into another unknown. I know that when we faced going to Michigan to trial, I too was very anxious, not sleeping much or able to focus well, except on our tragedy.

Thanks for your kind thoughts Rhonda and Betty, my bad dream did undo me on Sunday but then I was okay. I did not sleep well last night just cause I sometimes do, sometimes don't. Trudi, I haven't done a lot of that kind of dreaming in my awake world, though many years ago I guess I did fantasize more about what if...I can't beliee i can say, " many years ago" in reference to ERi's leaving here. Going on 8 years and that number is blowing me away. How could that be?

Forgive my memory, but didn't we also have a newbie named Carrie? Has anyone heard from her? I am a bit worried about how she is getting on, if she is okay.

Love to all,

dee

[Guest msnher]

Dee - Carrie posted a response to you while we were offline. Her post, my posts and Lorri's post seem to be lost in cyber space.

[crystalann]

WHAT its March. What happened to Jan and Feb.?Will I miss March too? This is all to much going back to bed! If it wasnt for this site I dont know what I would do sitting here alone all day

[dwsmithrn]

crystal, yes it is march, and that could be why i was so anxious yesterday....i was physically sick...my stomach was churning with all the things (i will spare you the details) that go along with that....this is the month that we sail out to sea and scatter nathan's ashes in the atlantic ocean....march 19th...exactly 2 months after his 32nd birthday....i want to do it, yet i dread it...i have to tell him goodbye, but i can't. i want him to still be here, but i know he's not...i want him to know how much i miss him, yet i don't know if he knows....again, how do we get through this...how does anyone? i went back to bed yesterday, and this morning...i am so tired, so weary...no sleep, can't eat....i am sick, and tired, and weary, and sad, and it just has over taken my entire body, my heart, my brain, my strength, and now there is just nothing left....nothing. what do you do?

my son, who also lives in the same beach town where nathan lived, is coming to get me in 2 days to take me back to his house for a few days....he wants me to 'get away' for a few days....my entire family is all for this idea....my daughter, my other son, my husband, my whole family....i am anxious and scared and worried about leaaving my home, my safe haven....especially, my husband...he has been my rock....but i told them i would try it....i dread going to the beach...nathan's favorite place in all the world...also, where he decided to leave this world... i am hoping that being around the grandkids and my absolutely loving, beautiful daughter-in-law will lift my spirits some what....but i told them i cannot promise them anything....and they are loving and supportive and understand what they can...afterall, nathan is their brother and lee and nathan were the best of friends and buddies and did everything together...so maybe lee just needs me, too...he is the executor of the will and has to tend to all the business and hasn't really had time to grieve himself, so maybe i can be aa part of his grieving process, too...i don't know what will happen.....i will have my computer with me, so i will keep in touch and let you all know how things are going....i don't think i can ever live my life without you now....i 'need' you now....

i am signing off for now....i think i need to rest for awhile...i feel drained.....diane

[kmb22]

Dee - Carrie did send me a couple of emails and sent me a picture of Morgan to use for the video. I just sent her a quick note to let her know the site was back up. I'm sorry sleep hasn't been kind to you these past few days. I've had insomnia most of my life and know how lack of sleep can really mess with us.

[ericasmom]

Karen, thanks so much for letting me know how Carrie is, I feel better knowing that she is still connected to us.

You and I have a lot in common, I have had insomnia throughout my life as well, but boy, at this age/menopause and teaching, I really don't do well without. I used to just operate as usual with broken sleep, not now.

The sun is out however, which is delightful, and while it is chilly, need hat and gloves to combat the wind, a walk at lunch was quite a nice reprieve.

Love to you,

dee

[kmb22]

Susannah - I know what you mean about being protective over your grief. I picture it as if I was a balloon avoiding anything sharp.

I'm sorry for those of you whose families are not supportive, I can relate. I won't get too into it here, frankly I'm tired of hearing it myself, but, there should be a family portrait under "dysfunctional" in all the text books. They're self centered, cold, and live among the pink clouds of if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist. I've tried asking, begging, and praying things would change but sometimes you have to know when to walk away.

My heart hurts to see all of your pain. I want so badly to say it will get easier, I reach for words that give hope for tomorrow...but I can't seem to think a positive thought aside from any that would take me away from the pain. I pray for some kind of proof he's still with me but I get nothing. I pray but feel more and more no one is listening. I wonder if I'm not given proof because he knows where that would lead me. It all seems a vicious cycle, a hurricane of emotions. So far as goodbye, for me, that will never happen...my heart believes it's I'll see you again...

I posted a video a while back. It's a song by Danny Gokey, he wrote it after losing his wife and it touches what I think we all feel. I thought I'd share the lyrics for those who missed it.

Sometimes your world just ends

It changes everything you’ve been

And all that’s left to be

Is empty, broken, lonely, hoping

I’m supposed to be strong

I’m supposed to find a way to carry on

And I don’t wanna feel better

And I don’t wanna not remember,

I will always see your face

In the shadows of this haunted place

I will laugh, I will cry, shake my fist at the sky

But I will not say goodbye

They keep saying time will heal

But the pain just gets more real

The sun comes up each day

Finds me waiting, fading, hating, praying,

If I can keep on holding on

Maybe I can keep my heart from knowing that you’re gone

And I don’t wanna feel better

I don’t wanna not remember

I will always see your face

In the shadows of this haunted place

I will laugh, I will cry, shake my fist at the sky

But I will not say goodbye

I will curse, I will pray, I will re-live everyday

I will show through the blame

I’ll shout out your name

I will laugh, I will cry, shake my fist at the sky

But I will not say

Will not say goodbye

I will not say goodbye

[Crystal16]

Wow Karen that's a powerful song and I can so so relate to the lyrics. Ashlee's 6 month mark is on Thursday 3/3/11 and it feels like it happened yesterday!! I would like to post this song on my FB, I hope you dont mind...

[crystalann]

Diane getting away helped me. At first i didnt want to go any where.This is where all our memories are we have lived in this house 15 years.In the first of feb we went to Yosemite got a room next to a river just spent time in the woods loved it I didnt take family pics cause it hurt us all to much.Comeing home felt differt it hurts to be here now.We are thinking of leaveing our family home just the same and renting one some where any where else. After typing that it does sound strnge but Idk

[kmb22]

Crystal - They are very powerful words, and so true of how I feel as well. I didn't know his story before hearing this song but he's a special guy. He just opened the doors to his new facility, Sophia's Heart, in Nashville which helps homeless families. (http://www.sophiasheart.org/) Of course I wouldn't mind you posting it FB...I had it on there before too.

Crystal (Tylers Mom) - I don't think it sounds strange at all. I had mentioned to a friend I wanted to jump in my van and travel the country for a while. If all went well she just closed on her house yesterday and will be hitting the road in her new RV; I guess it was a good idea. I feel the same way about my house.but the thought of leaving it all behind is a little too overwhelming right now. I know that feeling of needing to run away but know, for now, I'm not ready to live with the possible regrets...there are far too many of those already. Someone here, forgive me for not recalling who, said to give myself time before making any big decisions. I was a raving lunatic, cleaning the house, throwing out everything that had no meaning any more, preparing to sell everything and run. It was the best advice I could have gotten at the time; it helped me slow down and look at all the possible outcomes.

[sadmomm]

Hi Dee thanks for thinking about me. I do enjoy your postive outlook here. My mind is a swirl. ... I like to read the postings here. I don't know why our kids are gone.. I feel with mine i was a factor.... My daughter is mad also. But I would rather be mad than the other....

Shawns mom. the poem is nice. very nice.

It'll be a year but i would rather you guys celebrate his birthday. the 7th.

got some work done today and shipped to MD.. My new renters are supposed to pay on the first. so that will help.

the pastor came by and my daughter cursed me when i was gettingthe cat. vulgur. i told her she was weird. I am going to call him and talk to him. we started going to church 3 weeks ago but missed last week.

life is very sad forever. .. love to all carrie

[mikesmomrs]

Hello everybody: Wow, that was one long weekend...and then when you all came back on, I was out of town, with no computer. Hubby and I had to go to Lebanon (a little over 2 hours away) to have his six-month post surgery check done. We knew the weather was going to be awful (actually I posted all of this on Friday, before the site went down, but it went the way of a few other posts that I heard went away, but that's okay...I am here, we are here, and that is what counts). It snowed Saturday night and into Sunday morning, stopped for a few hours, so we picked that time to try to get up there and planned on spending the night. The roads were good for the trip up there, but on Monday morning, there was 1/2 inch of ice all over everyone's cars...we didn't have to be at the dr's til 2:30, so we had plenty of time. Just turned on the van with the remote, let it sit and defrost itself. I just can't scrape that ice anymore.

So, anyway, his dr's appt went very well...they did a chest x-ray, and the doctor said that it looked okay, but asked him if he'd had pneumonia recently...we said, yes, he had it in August. He said well that's likely what he's seeing, but it looked okay. I then reminded him (does ANY doctor do his whole job!!! This is a really good doctor, yet, had we not been on top of the whole deal, this would have been overlooked)...that back in August, he said the chest CT had some questionable lesions and they would "do another in six months to be sure." So, I said, isn't he going to have a chest CT? Hmmmm, says the doctor, as he "ponders" my question....let me look that up...so, he click-clicks on the computer and lo' and behold, guess what, there's the note that says a redo on the CT should happen. Perhaps he should have READ THE DANGED NOTES BEFORE HE WALKED IN!!!! And there really was no excuse for it, because he had many cancellations that day due to the weather. So, we go all the way back downstairs, to the other end ofthe hospital again, for the CT, (I had actually asked them about it when they did the X-ray, but they said "all we have is the order for the x-ray") which is VERY far, but, gotta do whatcha gotta do, right? GGGRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. So, we come back up, and finally he gets the call about it, and tells us that it didn't look that different from last time (which is good) but that the latest pneumonia did leave some scarring, and that would need to be checked again...in six months. So, all in all, hubby is doing really well, doc was glad he'd lost so much weight and the bottom line was that he didn't see any signs of cancer, but they would do an abdominal MRI in six months, also, to be sure. You know, the mistakes made with Mike's care will never leave my memory, and they are surely what makes me stay on top of things now; but my heart feels pierced yet again, each time that I have to question something medical or have to "remind" a professional of something, or correct something they are planning (or NOT planning, as the case may be) because of something they've told us before. I say a quick prayer of thanks, but the hurt stays a little bit, that Mike had to go through all that for us to learn to NEVER completely trust what someone says or does...question, question, and question again! Make sure! So, anyway, we feel blessed that things look okay, my rant aside... and send prayers of thanks and of gratitude for everyone's support.

I know that a lot of things are going on right now, and I too was very concerned about our new members over this weekend, and their not being able to communicate. I am glad to see that everything is set up again, and of course, thanks to those who make all of this possible, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am so sorry, Lorri, that I missed Kourt's birthday. That was when I learned that the site was down...I came on to post the "Happy Birthday" to Kourtney, and couldn't get on site.

so, a belated, but just as sincere,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KOURTNEY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY BEAUTIFUL GIRL, I hope you had a wonderful day of celebrating your birthday with all of our angels, and thank you for the birds that were hovering nearby at the cemetery, sending love to your sweet mama..

There have been so many posts since the site came back up, but I will just start from here...there is just too much to try to remember and I don't want to leave anyone out. I had all of you in my prayers this weekend, especially our new members, who are feeling this terrible pain so acutely right now...I am glad that you are still here, (though not glad that you ever had a reason to be here in the first place), as I know that you will find comfort, support and much understanding here.

Have a good evening everyone, as good as it can be.

[ericasmom]

Carrie,

thanks for letting me know that you are out there, just don't like to see newbies left out there hanging in the wind when the site goes down. I worry as you can see. Why is your daughter mad? Is she mad at you or at life in general? Losing a brother is terribly hard adn her age is also a difficult one. What kind of church are you going to? Is husband going too?

Thinking of you and wishing for the very best,

Karen one of us oldies may have told you to take some time to grieve before making a fast decision. It is said to try to put off big changes if possible, for a year to three after losing a child. We need time to take in what the life aruond us means as the time passes. For some, moving is the answer however. I guess if I were to need a change, I might rent out this place and go look around to see hwat felt best, knowing that this place was still mine. With housing what it is, any move might be hard right now, gas so high, selling houses so difficult. I am a homebody though so I am happy to be here near what I know.

[daveydow1]

Diane----I'm so sorry for your loss of your dear son, Nathan. I agree with the others about being physically ill after

losing a child. The passing of a beloved child is an assault on the mind and the body. I remember not being able

to eat much after my son, Davey, was killed. Food just seemed to have no taste, and would actually stick in my

throat. Dee's suggestion of taking small bites, and drinking enough water is a good one. You do need to have

your strength. Your body may not need a lot of calories right now, but small portions would help a lot. I do know

what you mean about the sister who just doesn't understand, and does not offer much support to you in your

grief. Someone said to just tell her how you feel about your grief, and that it is a process that you must go through

on your own timetable. Maybe if she actually hears you say the words that are in your heart, she will then understand

how you need to grieve. I have a sister who is not in the least bit understanding. I never

talk about Dave to her.........I just know she would make a remark about "you should be moving on" after all this time.

I know I'm right about this, so there is no dialog between us about Davey. My brother is my best support in my family.

I'm glad that you have others who are understanding.

Sending thoughts & prayers to you, friend.

Tylersmom..Chrystal-----I'm sorry that you have been having so much pain and suffering. Peace & prayers.

Sharon------I agree......you could try to eat small amounts to keep your strength up. My heart goes out to you, friend.

We've all been there where you are now, and we understand.

Dee-----Wild weather here the past few days. 3 inches of hard rain on top of 11 inches of recent snow......flooding all

over the place yesterday, but it has receded today. Some area towns had many basements flooded with a couple feet

of water, ruining so much expensive stuff. The 3 inches of rain was all inside of about a few hours....not gradually.

On the news, one man was going about in his yard in a CANOE. !!! (not in my immediate area though....we live on a hill )

I felt better today when I changed all the calendars to March.

Sus------I, too, feel as you do......that you will never again feel whole until you are reunited with your beloved child. You said

it so well. Thanks.

Karen----Thanks for the words to the song by Danny Gokey. I think we will never say goodbye to our beloved children. That

would somehow make it more final that it already is, and we do have all the little treasures that our kids send us in those

sweet signs that they give us. We always keep looking for them,.......and they do appear.....in their own way to brighten

our day and warm our spirit.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[summergirl]

Hello Dear Friends....I want to tell you how happy it makes me feel to come hear and read all of the supportive words for the "new" that have joined us on this long journey. It sends me back to the days when I first found this site and how I was accepted and made to feel like family the moment I arrived......being here was what kept me from losing my mind - I talked so much here I was sure I was going to drive everyone crazy but they never left my side no matter what time of day or night it was someone was always here. Dee is so right about not making any big decisions for 1 - 3 years, you need the time to grieve and to learn how to live again and that only comes with time......When ever any one asks me if "is it better, easier ??" I reply with "no, never better, never easier, but softer".

Diane - I am sure your sister does want you to "move on, get busy" - I believe it is because she wants to fix you and thinks that if you get out and do things then you will feel better....we who have lost a child know that it does not work that way but it is so hard to explain to others.....My husband was that way with me, he kept trying to get me to be with friends and do things and I fought him, I was not leaving the house and I certainly was not going to sit around with friends while they talked about their lives, their children and all the crap that meant nothing to me....I just wanted my Jessica back....but one night I agreed to make him happy - we went with friends to a restaurant that we loved and the next thing I know I am screaming at my friends to just "shut-up, I do not want to hear about how sad or upset you are because your child is going to college and you are going to miss them.....don't you understand that I would give anything to be in your shoes and be sending my Jessica off to college....well I can't because she is dead and I am never going to see her do anything again" -- my hubby took me home. My friends called and apologized and I apologized for my crying, screaming outburst. I guess what I am trying to say (to add to what Dee said) - is that we cannot be pushed into anything we are not ready for - be honest with your sister about your feelings and if you are as close as I think you are then she will stand by you....Sorry for the long post, sometimes I can go on and on......hugs and prayers

Thank you - yes my brother Billy was just 40 and died in his sleep from a heart attack....he also left behind a 4 year old son Michael. We were close and I miss him - time does not change the pain - I will say though and I pray I do not hurt anyones feelings - losing my brother was so very painful and I hurt terribly but losing my daughter just about killed me......There is no pain as bad as losing your child.

Tavian had a great session with Rebecca and is looking forward to going back next week. Tomorrow we go back to the dentist, just 2 more to go and he is finished except for they are deciding whether he needs braces or not !!! WHAT - I think his teeth are beautiful and I do not see that he would need them but the dentist knows best so I can be very glad that I have really good insurance. Right now he is sitting in his chair making paper airplanes - his favorite thing to do lately....I think we have been through a whole ream of paper in about 2 weeks...lol

I will say good night and I am sending hugs to each and every one of you here....know that you are in my prayers and even if I do not respond to your post I read them and you are in my heart......Kathy

[ericasmom]

Sherry, glad that you are on a hill, they say that spring flooding could be pretty nasty this year, as if it wasn't last year? I went for a really pretty walk this late afternoon, while it was still about 40 degrees. The birds were loud adn wonderful, cardinals galore and sparrows, finch, and I do believe I heard the song of a robin. Now that makes me grin inside adn out. Yes, I agree Sherry, lifting that page and revealing MARCH was a treat today. My students made new calendar squares to be used for this month. I love their take on things through their art. One girl made a lion/lamb head on a lion/lamb body. Funny.

I took a little nap after my walk, just needed to sink beneath the covers for 20 minutes and felt fairly refreshed afterwards. Made an asparagus and cheese omelette for dinner. I am simply rambling because it feels so good to come and chat.

Chrystal, Carrie, Sharon, Diane, New Dee, all those new to us, Michelle, I listen to your stories, the stories of y our lives and hold your hands tight as you find each day waiting for you to get through. I remember thinking, oh my God, how do I make it through a whole day now? And nobody could answer except to say, one minute at a time, then one hour at a time, and so on until the minutes pass in ways that provide you more peace, one day.

Carol Dear, so glad that you and Ralph are home safe adn sound and that the tests went well, thanks to your reminding the damn doctor to do his/her job. i know that it is disheartening to need to remind the professionals as to what was said a year before, six months, a week...read the notes guys! Nobody needs to shove them to remember to send a bill now do they? The bills from my one day in and out same day surgery in January came to over 15,000 dollars. Taht is because they can bill the insurance for these outrageous amounts, and while sorting through the bills, paying the much reduced portion of my bills, I thought, how do folks without any insurance deal with this craziness?

[kmb22]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeLD8R9lvaU

[charsng1234]

You know I watch the video it is so sad. I started crying before I seen shanes face. I hurt so bad for me and every person on this site.. My sister came over today I was just thinking about how could this happen to me.. She is singing and making jokes like I should be laughing or smiling.. I have a hard time getting out of bed. I did talk about shane this evening with my mom, I told her stories about how funny he was. I miss him so much, this is just to hard. I don't know how to get through this one. I hate my life...

[ericasmom]

Amen to the beauty that we have known so dearly...and sleep tight. May there be visits this night.

[crystalann]

Just finished up the new video, hopefully I got everyone this time.

Crystal (Tylers Mom) - I know you were having trouble with your pictures but I was able to find a picture on FB. I hope you don't mind I wanted to include him.

I really do like putting these together but...well I'm sure you know. Holding you all close in my heart and prayers, always.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeLD8R9lvaU

Thank you how do i view it? I am sorry if any of his pictures on fb offended you! He kept no secrets from me and i loved him the way he was again thank you. cant wait to see what pic you came up with

[kmb22]

Crystal - You just have to click on the play arrow in the middle of the video and it should start right up. I have to correct myself on where I found the picture; I thought it was FB but when I tried to find it again I realized it wasn't on there but on in his memorial site. So far as offensive pics. I raised 2 boys and know all about those pictures. I don't know how many were ruined by a well placed middle finger or worse. There's something about the male sense of humor of I never will understand....

[dwsmithrn]

tyler's mom and shane's mom....i am right here with you both...same feelings, same experiences...i am sorry we have to be here, i am sorry we have angels....i go to sleep crying (when sleep ever comes) and wake up crying. i finally got brave enough to look in the mirror...oh my gosh...grief is a scary place...no wonder my family is worried about me..i look horrid, but i really don't care. looks are the last thing on my mind at this time. i just want nathan back. i miss him more than life itself.

dee, kathy, karen, and everyone else who responded to me (sorry i'm so new to the site and i can't remember everyone's names just yet, but i'm trying)

thank you for words of wisdom and encouragement. i do listen and take it to heart. it's just hard to fathom that the day will come i won't feel like i do today or any other day....sorry if this offends anyone, but as i tell my brother, SSDD...i am a changed person...i realize i will never be the same person, the same wife, the same sister, the same mother, and this saddens me.

Grief changes you. not just grief, but the loss of a child, the whole you is now broken and shattered. it will never be whole again, there will always be a part missing, like a puzzle with a missing piece.

guess i have praddled on long enough...just got up put my computer in my lap and started writing...but thanks for listening. diane

[Guest msnher]

Tyler's mom - I read through some of Tyler's memorial page and read the article about the shooting. I am so sorry. In my early childhood we moved from mining town to mining town in Southern Nevada...Battle Mountain, Caliente, Pioche, Tonopah etc. I only remember Caliente and Tonopah, though. My sister married David Gardner from Ely. Although I met David's family, I don't remember much about them. David and 2yr old Davey drowned 37 yrs ago in Ely. 18 yrs later David and Arlene's surviving son, James, killed himself. I tell you this wondering if there is any relation?

Crystal - I had to allow popups to get the video to play on my computer. Even then I don't think it played right away. Now that it is in my favorites it plays easily. Go figure.

Karen - You're the best!

Well, my mind just went blank. Guess that's all for now.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Guest msnher]

Tyler's mom - PS if you do know Arlene, I am her youngest sister. They call me Annie.

[charsng1234]

I am up once again I tell my husband I hate mornings it means have to deal with another day away from shane. I dont know how to get through this. I read everyones messages I think when will I be there. I am so sad without shane. His shooting was stupid and the guy cared nothing for life. He is going on with his life and mine stopped on 1/15th/2011 when he shot my son. Tyler's mom am so sorry for you, Diane my prayers are with you.. Dee,chrystal.karen,Susannah,diane andd who ever I missed I am sorry thanks for being there for me. This is my life line in the mornings and my sleeping pill at night. Thanks.. shanes mom......sharon.

[crystalann]

Morning everyone. I still dont know where or how to see this video. My husbands name is David and is now working in the mines wierd. And the well placed middle finger gave me a good laugh this morning

[shorty16]

My Indigo friends,

Good Morning to you all!! Michelle, my daughter, and I made some granola on Monday - I handed some out to my work pals. It turned out pretty good for the first time. The hardest part is finding all the ingredients - after that, its a breeze.

My friends who are new to this site - My heart is with every one of you. I feel your pain. Please picture our angels around you with their hands on your shoulders. Each one of them is here for you - All the time - any time.

Dee - the sun is out today - I am so happy.

Take care my friends

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[ericasmom]

Tyler's Mom, a good laugh for your soul. Laughter comes rarely in the beginning of grief, so when it does, let it come, welcome it. It helps clear out the hallways of sadness just for that moment, but we live moment to moment in those first months especially, so if there is something fun for a second, relish it.

New Parents, please never worry about remembering our names, it will come, and never worry about going on adn on, it is what we all have done/still do. It is how we breathe again, by connecting here and letting out the beast that lives in our mind and spirit...the anger, hate, fear, sorrow, deep deep sorrow, and we all can take it, don't worry that your rant or anyones will make us go away. I know that you cannot see yourselves feeling as many of us do now, we could not either at the point of mourning that you are at, it takes time, and time becomes quite a muddle. It remained a muddle for me too, though I work and function in the world and adhere to schedules and pay bills, the year stlll catches in my throat, how could it be 2011 when my Baby Girl died in 2003? How did this many years pass? How did I get here? I got here the same way others have and will in the future, one minute at a time, graduating to half hours, into hours, into days, weeks, and so on. But it will take time, be as patient with yourself as you can.Be as kind to yourselves as your Child would want you to be. They still love you too, the relationship never ends.

I will tell you this, I went back to my morning and evening walks right after Eri died, I resumed the one thing that I felt I had control of and enjoyed. I found that indeed, I still enjoyed my walks, just had to take extra tissue with me and not mind the looks of others if I was crying or talking softly to my Daughter. (I talk to Eri still, each day, makes me feel connected adn I do believe she hears me), Taking my walks also allowed me the alone time I crave and being out in nature and part of the natural world which to my soul, is cleansing and healing. And like it or not, our body does still release endorphins even when we are in deep grief, so walking or riding your bike or swimming or whatever acitivity that you may do and do for at least 20 minutes will allow your body to deliver the all important endorphins which are natural mood lifters. Being outside also provides you the necessary vitamin d that we need for maximum good health. Again some of you are wondering, " what the hell do I care about good health, is she nuts?" Well, we are still here, we still have others who love us, and grief takes its toll on our systems as it is, so if we do some things that will combat some of the deterioration that comes, we are still here and we are standing strong.

A piece is always going to be missing, and once the shattered pieces find their way to the fragile outline that you learn to live in, the glue of your love gets stronger and the heart and soul and spirit start to work in unison again, one day, not real soon, but one day.

[ericasmom]

COL, the sun is shining here as well, though colder by 10 degrees than yesterday. But I will take it as the branches on the trees start to take on the color of future warmth. I love when the faint color begins and the bird song is constant.

Love to you,

dee

[Guest msnher]

Crystal (Tyler's mom) - Well, Gardner is a common name, but who knows, we just might be family (sort of). My parents were the town drunks and rarely worked. As I said, we moved from town to town until we were put in foster homes. I used to play in the abandoned mines as a little girl. All that aside, I have more of a visual of where you live and the atmosphere in which your son was killed. I am so, so sorry. As small as your town is I assume you know the person/family who killed your son. I hope you have support around you.

Sharon - This site is also my life line. All of you mean more to me than words can say. I don't have any wise words of comfort, because I don't know that there are any. I just know that it does get softer or duller. Eventually.

Grief. When Stephanie first died as painful as it was, I also found it quite interesting. "A grief observed"...I felt as if I were two people. The one going through the sorrow and another observing. I had a lot of "So, this is what it's like" moments. Almost 19 months later, I find myself in a similar situation. Experiencing and observing. I am in calmer waters, but the water is still very deep and dark. I no longer feel like I'm trying to swim in quick sand. I feel like Tom Hanks in The Castaway, Wilson has floated away, the storm has passed, and he lays face down on his make shift raft watching as a whale swims by. No emotion left on his face. Soon he is rescued.

I have had many "dark night of the soul" experiences in my life. Being raped and tortured by my father (and others in those small mining towns of Nevada) being ripped from my sisters and raised in foster homes; the murder of my grandma (we mostly lived with her until we were put in foster homes. She was raped, beaten and buried alive) My brother in law and two nephews tragic deaths; My sister's death, my mother's death, my grandchildren's virtual kidnap and then being reunited with them a year later finding out they were raped and tortured for over a year...the civil trial and criminal trial against their perpetrator...

Yes, I've had many dark nights that I was able to turn into spiritual stepping stones and grow....not this time. Nothing compares to the death of my child. I find that interesting. It is certainly humbling. I realize I was quite arrogant and ignorant concerning grief. Although I had experienced many losses in my life, I was quite callous towards others inability to rise above their difficulties. What a lesson this has been...continues to be.

I am now the woman who cannot function. That has never happened to me before. I was the person who offered a shoulder to cry on and then said, "Get over it!" Paybacks are a bitch. I am more than grateful that I am married to a man who does not share the attitude I once had. My attitude, before, was Trust God. It is just recently (since my visit from Micheal) that I am beginning to trust in God again. I still cringe when I hear people say God was watching out for them because they were spared in an accident or their sickness was healed or they just missed the storm. And, I get mad as hell when I hear people blame someone's lack of faith as the cause of their illness or accident. And, I mean no offense, but I even get more upset when they blame the devil.

Bad things are going to continue to happen. Things that make no sense at all will continue. The real test for me is to continue to trust in Love instead of fear. I laugh and joke about "we're all screwed".....but, basically I believe that...now. I want to rise above that thinking. I don't only want to find shelter from the storm, I want to be shelter from the storm. I want others to feel better, more hope, more lifted because I was born. I don't want to be the woman I've become. And, I certainly don't want to be the arrogant woman that I was.

This gives me something to ponder. I think the real act of courage for me, at this stage of grief, will be the decision to live again. To find beauty again. The real test of strength at this stage is to be able to get out of bed, look my best, vacuum my floors and go out in public with the intent to BE THERE....to give more than I take...even if it's just a smile.

Not sure I can pull it off today, but it is whom I hope to be when I grow up.

Love to you all. Thanks for listening. Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[crystalann]

Sorry no relation. I was born in Oklahoma and my husband in Vermont. So sorry life has been so cruel. I found a site from the funeral home for Tyler didnt even know where the got their info. My daughter 14 and son16 just told me they gave them the pic and info.The pic on there was taken the night before he was sooooo happy! My mom passed away 2 1/2 years ago and they even gave them her name makes me wonder if they blocked that out and are doing the same with this. We do live in a small town under 5000 people. We did know of this kid and did know the family he stayed with. They have all been arrested. I cant stand going any where here every one knows us and I feel like they all stare in pitty and I cannt stand it. Well off to Reno to pick up Tylers Lucy she is gonna stay with us again.She had threats in the beginning cause she witnessed it all. We should not have to worry we are the victims. I hope everyone has the best day they can.

[dwsmithrn]

wow, sus, that was a great speech....i want to grow up to be just like you....if you pull it off, let me know how you do it...i can't imagine being that strong right now...i'm still at the 'stay in bed' phase...you could be my new hero....diane