Loss of an Adult Child

[Guest msnher]

Thank you all for your encouraging words about the daughter of Stephanie's "boyfriend".

Karen - The realization that nothing I said or did would change anything - "ever" - has been a hard pill to swallow. You are just short of five months on this journey and you are so wise. It occurs to me this morning that nothing I say or do will bring Stephanie back, but everything I do or say has an effect somewhere on someone. The ripple effect/affect (I don't even want to try to learn the difference anymore). There is so much power in our words.

This might be surprising, but I don't like confrontation. I'm good with speaking my mind when someone else "starts it". When someone crosses me or threatens someone I love (or the underdog) I am right there, standing in between the innocent and the attacker ready to do battle. I have a difficult time when it's me stirring up the still waters. "I think I'll bring a tsunami in that person's life" or "I think I'll kick that dog while it's lying down and not suspecting it". That's what it feels like when I finally make a decision to change the status quo when that change affects/effects someone else. I especially don't like taking responsibility for said actions when I'm the one looking like the bad guy. It's so much nicer when the proof that I'm making this decision because you're an idiot is blatant.

As you might have guessed, I'm sorting things out. Again. Yesterday I notified the kid's dad that I was terminating all contact between he and the children. Obviously, the news didn't go over too well. I have not made this decision lightly and I have counseled with others...most recently, the school social worker. She was kind but blunt when she told me that these kids (especially Mariah) are screaming out for someone to protect them from their father. A lot more was said, but that's all I needed to take the action. She also said that these kids needed us to set the example of setting boundaries with him so that when they're older they will know how to do it.

[Guest msnher]

ddefrain - Dreams about our angels can throw us off a bit. I'm glad you came here to talk about it.

Carol - My goodness you all are getting lots of snow! How is Ralph feeling these days? Perhaps you've said and I've already forgotten...

Dee - I don't know if I would have thought to explain the nudes to the kids either. I have a beautiful nude print hanging in our bedroom. All the "parts" of the woman are tastefully hidden, but it's obvious she's naked. The first time my grandkids saw it they chuckled and made some comments and I told them it was art. I don't think they even see it anymore.

Kathy - Five years. My love and prayers go with you as you hit this milestone of sorrow.

Sherry - I feel even better stealing your saying "Bless your buttons" knowing your grandma said it to you.

I know I've forgotten someone but I send love to all of you!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Crystal16]

Good morning my friends,

Colleen- The court process is very draining. I love the visual of our Angels standing by my side, thanks my friend for asking Brian to surround me with his love.

Kathy- I wish I could comfort you or at least give you a BIG hug. I am so new on this journey and I feel that’s all I do is cry but it is cleansing for my soul.

Susannah- You are a warrior, God needs warriors to speak up for the unheard or the meek. Hold tight to the truth you know what is best for the grandkids.

Stopping by to read and let everyone know I’m thinking of you. Stay warm North Easterners, Carol, Kathy, Lisa .

Love to all, Elaine, Bonnie, Greg, Sonya, Dan, Shelly Betty, Betsy, Michelle, Beth, Marcia, Trudi, Carol, Sherry, Lorri, Lynn, Leah, Amy, Claudia,

[Guest msnher]

Crystal - The judicial process is very draining by itself, without dealing with the grief over the death of your child. For me, though, I had some sort of supernatural strength during that time. I honestly believe it was Stephanie helping me. Your Ashlee will be with you and if Brian shows up you are definitely in good hands. Talk about a warrior! They will all be there, ministering and loving all of you.

[kmb22]

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[westleysmom]

Carol-What a great thing to have found the tape that has Mike's school pictures on it. I always bought so many pictures when I took the kids when they were little, too many really. I could never turn them down and probably spent a small fortune on pictures that I still have. I had made an album for each of the kids of their own pictures, and a few in the back of the other child's pictures and the few pictures taken over the years of me and my husband (I run from the camera, always thought that pictures of me were horrible. Do I really look like that?!!!) Now I don't know what to do with Westley's album, it just occured to me lately that it was in the cabinet where I always stored pictures. No, I haven't gone there yet. And I also have a storage box for each of them, with things like cards I got when they were born and their coming home from the hospital outfit. Birth announcements and special things I kept over the years. I can't even bear to think about opening that box yet. Maybe someday. I did clean out the kitchen cabinets some, at least things aren't falling on my head when I open the doors.

Colleen-Thanks for the kind words. Westley's friend CJ called yesterday to tell me that he passed his GED, and I told him I was proud of him and Westley would be too. He lives with the family of another of Westley's friends, actually the place he was the night he died (before he took the girl home where he stayed that night) While we were talking, he said Mom said to tell you hi, and I asked him where he was. He said, well, I'm at Pat's but she took me in when no one else would, so I call her Mom, too. I told him to tell her Hi back. It makes me feel bad sometimes that I didn't take him in when, well to tell the truth, we have more room than they do. The thing is, I don't think I can do that again yet. I can't cook supper and hope somebody shows up and I can't lay in bed at night listening to hear the music coming down the driveway and worrying that he's in a ditch somewhere breathing his last. Or that I'm going to get a call from the jail saying can you come and get me. I just can't yet, I don't know if I will ever be able to open myself up to that kind of fear again. I suppose I'm a coward, but I do try to help and encourage him from where I am. That's all I can do right now.

Dee-As you see above CJ did pass his GED. He said now he wants to start trying to get into the local university (where I graduated and Westley went for 3 weeks!) I encouraged him to keep working at it. I told him in 5 years he would be 25 years old whether he went to school or not, and that was still young and he could do anything he sets his mind to do. I hope he keeps working at it, right now he has a lot of court fees and fines that he still owes and most of his money goes to those, which is why he's still staying with the friend's family. His mother has been in touch with him and it has kind of upended him, she abandoned him when he was 3 years old, and only recently has tried to contact him again. I am not sure what her intentions are and I hope he will be cautious when it comes to her. He told me he has spoken to his Dad who lives on the west coast, but he has never offered to come see him or invited him to come there. There are so many people who don't realize the precious gift of a child into your life, I wonder why we were chosen to love our children so much and then have them snatched away? When there are so many people who don't even seem to notice their children. It is a mystery that I will never crack.

Kathy-I'm so sorry that the five year angelversary is hitting you so hard dear. I wish I knew what to tell you to help you through it, but I don't. We are just here for you to talk to and I hope that it helps. Peace to you.

Lisa-Glad to see Quell's happy picture here and sorry that the winter is getting to you too. I will be glad when it gets to be springtime again, but I'm afraid that will be a while.

Debra-Sorry for the bad feeling when you woke from your dream. I don't dream of Westley often, and usually they make me feel okay, because in them I get to see him. It's always confusing though, because like you said, I know even in the dream that he's not alive in reality. I think I subconsciously try to go as long as possible after waking each morning before I allow my thoughts to turn to the fact of his death. Does that make any sense? Its like when I wake up, I think about what to wear, what to eat, where I'm going, anything but that for as long as possible. But the thought always comes and the fact remains. Its always a letdown, and I'm sorry your's was so abrupt and heartbreaking after your dream.

Sherry, Leah, Bonnie, Claudia, Susannah, Lynn, Trudi, Michelle, Betsy, Betty, Dan, Greg, Crystal, Karen,all of you are on my mind each day and I hope that the days are being kind to you

[hoosiermom]

There are so many people who don't realize the precious gift of a child into your life, I wonder why we were chosen to love our children so much and then have them snatched away? When there are so many people who don't even seem to notice their children. It is a mystery that I will never crack.

Wow I couldn't agree more with this and this is something I struggle with almost daily. When Bri was alive and I was caring for her, I had people who told me all the time what a good job I was doing, just praised me to the heavens and I could never understand that either. I thought, she's my DAUGHTER! Why wouldn't I take care of her?? I never felt that I deserved praise or recognition for doing something that any mother should/would do. And yes I know that not everyone is capable of caring for a special needs child.

I guess this is where my anger comes into play, because I want to go around shaking people and yelling at them, these are your children and first of all the fact that you were blessed with healthy children should have you on your knees every single day thanking God for that alone! I'm not angry that God gave her to me for such a short time, I just want to know what is in this for me to learn, when I knew her whole life how precious she was and never took one single day for granted......

Sorry for the random outburst......lol

[Guest msnher]

Hugs to you, Jen. Just last night I dreamed that Gary and I got up one morning and spontaneously decided to take a trip to another town. We forgot we had kids and left them. Hours later, when I remembered, I panic'd and tried to reach them but it was too late, the authorities already had them. The rest of my dream was about trying to get back to them and always taking a wrong turn or getting stranded and trying to explain to everyone "we just forgot we had kids". I woke in a sweat and panic and was so grateful it was just a dream.

My oldest daughter, Amanda, was not supposed to live to be one and then two...she is now 31 yrs old. We had a cancer scare with her a few years ago and I told her the way I look at it she's been here on borrowed time and if she died I would grieve but thank God for the time I had with her. That was BEFORE Stephanie died. She called me just the other day...Amanda, not Stephanie (but it would be really cool if Stephanie called) ... and told me they were running more tests on her heart. I freaked out. I think I was possessed or something. I told her being here on borrowed time and being grateful for the time I had her no longer applies. God took Stephanie instead and he can't have her and he can just kiss my ask and I was sobbing. It was really quite pathetic. I went on to tell her if something does happen to her I don't want any bird landing on my shoulder or owls on a pole I want her..."Do you hear me? I want you. You have to show yourself to me and talk to me and really let me know you're with me. Oh God. He can't take you."

My poor girl. She was very sweet and kept saying, calm down Mom, they're just tests.

I know you're grateful for the time you had with your sweet Bri. You wouldn't trade a moment of it. But, she's still gone from you in this lifetime and that sucks. I hear so much about having time to prepare verses the shock of a sudden accident. I don't think there is any comparison, except that the one who has time to prepare might cherish the moments together more than those of us who are hit with it suddenly. But, after they die? It's the same path.

Not only were you lucky to have Bri. She was lucky to have you.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[daveydow1]

Kathy----I see on the weather channel that you are getting more snow. YIKES ! No wonder you are tired of it. I agree.....

keeping busy is good...sewing-- reading-- cleaning--baking etc., but I guess that dreadful knowledge is

always there somewhere in our minds....isn't it? I wish you peace & comfort.

Dee-----The t-shirts you had made for the ERIFEST at the 5 yr. mark sound so very cute. Who designed them?

Glad that you & the class had a great time at the Art Museum. I think that some of the kids will always remember

that outing.....years from now. Some may forget, but some will always remember. I can remember going on a

field trip when I was in 5th grade---just to the local library. But, I still remember how enchanting I found all those

stacks of books to be. That was more years than I care to count ----but I still remember,...and the love of books\

reading carried right on through for me.....even ended my working career as a librarian

Susannah------It is good that you have set the boundaries for the children in regards to the amount of connection

they have with their Dad. As you say.....he was not too happy with your decision, but you had to do it, and you had

talked to the counselor and school officials about it, and they have backed you up. The dad may just be a bad

distraction/influence on them....(just by going by what you have said about him ), and the kids need all the help

they can get in their corner. You & Gary are their best advocates, and give them so much love. Sending prayers

for all of you, and also for dear Amanda. Peace to you, friend.

Jenn----Good to see you here at BI.

Feeling a bit "down" today......so not too much to say. Just wishing peace to everyone her at BI.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[mikesmum]

Reading through today. Had an odd day yesterday. Back in the hills which really does my brain in. Mal's eldest is moving into his first home. Was supposed to be today, but it now Tuesday. We will stay up till Wednesday and be part of the clean up brigade.

Funny how we get lost in time. After Mikes angelversary passed I took a deep breath, believing my next hump days will be birthdays etc for the family.

Sitting in the sun outside our local cafe the mind went wandering. Was it this nice last January around this time? When was it that it rained solidly for a whole week, it was about now. When was it.....then BAM!! Like a sledge hammer my memory opened wider.

It was the week between Mike's dying and his service. The skies opened that morning and didn't stop till after his service one week later. This was the day of Mikes funeral 4 yrs ago.

Steven believes, as do I, that Mike, realising he wasn't with us 'cried a river' to let us know he didn't mean to leave so soon...

My heart thumped yesterday as the tears stung my eyes. The gulps that come with trying to breath audible.

Its so hard sometimes. You think you have it tucked up snuggly in a place of soft memories then out it comes like a frieght train.

Kathy - Hearts to you my friend. Five years but a blink of an eye, a heart beat on this journey. Jess your mum needs you.....hugs from above while she bunkers down in her snow white castle.

Carol - You always know what will stir the heart. Remembering is a big part of us all now. Remembering all those days and not letting our children ever be forgotten.

Dee - Field Trip! Love it. Gently forging the minds of the future and opening them to new and exciting things. Glad to hear you have taken so 'me' time too.

Well, Muttley has had his coat clipped for summer. He's now more a 'Spike' than a Muttley.

Off to mow grass and wander through the town.....Not back a the beach till next week, I need my oxygen...

[shorty16]

Good Evening to my fellow Indigos. Love to each and every one of you!!!

Trudi – . I am so sorry Mike’s funeral upset you. Personally, I do not give much space in my brain for Brian’s funeral. The funeral was for everyone else, not us. We said our goodbyes the night of the accident. We were able to see Brian, huge tube down his throat. When I touched his face, it was cool. He had been dead for several hours. We decided to cremate Brian – so the funeral was nothing but his shell to me. Trudi, my friend - I can really tell the difference in your posts when you are at the ocean or in the hills. You made the right decision – it shows.

Kathy – 5 years. In one way, 5 years has allowed us to try to get used to our new normal, in another way, how can our child ever be dead for 5 years – How can our child even be dead??? I do so love the Tavian stories. I am a wanna-be Grandma. If my kids behave themselves, we will not be grandparents for another 3-4 years.

Rhonda – With the beginning of your second year, I sure want you to know, you will not feel like this forever. I can remember my mantra during that time: “I cannot believe that my body and mind can be in this much pain for this long and still survive?” I have not said that in a while. Like my Aunt said “We get used to doing things without them, but we never stop missing them.” I am sending warm hugs your way..

Dee – How is my friend across the border? We had about 2-3 inches of snow today. Roads are very slippery. It seems to me, that Milwaukee and Waukesha area drivers are driving slow and caution this year. There are cars in the ditches and several fender-benders, but no bad accidents. I seem to be sensitive to hearing about that. I bet walking in your neighborhood is gorgeous with the fresh snow fall.

Sherry – How is Ohio weather? I have to tell you something about your state. I am in the Quality department at work and use “tools” to solve problems. One tool we use is OHIO (Only Handle It Once). Isn’t that Great!!!! I use it at home also. The men in my family are notorious procrastinators. I will say OHIO – and it makes them think.!!!!!

Sus – Is the West getting snow also? Our family lived in Utah for a while – we got a lot of snow, but it was light and fluffy – not a lot of water content. Thanks for the wonderful phone message. I have come to a place in my grief process where hearing about newbies does not bring me to my knees. It almost calls me to contact the family and say “This physical pain will not last forever if you work through this grief instead of against it, because this grief is not going anywhere.” You are a living example of the work it takes to live well in our new normal. You are a great Mom (again).

Jenn – We all do random outburst!! I think that is part of who I am now. This whole thing is unfair. No matter how our children died, it is unfair to us who loved so strong. And for those that spent so much time during the end of their child’s life caring for that child. That is a burden I do not know, but can sure empathize with. Our loss was sudden – one minute here, the next-gone. I am sending hugs your way.

Love to:

Betty, Betsy, Michelle, Carol, Crystal, Lorri, Lynn, Beth, Lisa, Marcia, Leah, Amy, Claudia, Elaine, Bonnie, Greg, Sonya, Dan, Shelly

Colleen, Brian’s Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

Sherry - I'm sorry you're feeling down. I imagine that is to be expected. Hugs to you...Bless your buttons!

Trudi - You describe this journey so well. Thinking we have put it away in a nice, safe softe place and then wham! Over something as simple as trying to remember the last big rain. Hugs to you too!

Michelle - thinking of you and hoping you're okay. Okay by our standards now, not by the world's standards.

Colleen - I just love you, my friend! Sorry I missed your call when you returned mine today. I was actually on the other line talking to a minister of all things! That's right, I now have my own personal minister. She's been my friend for years and she knows I don't like church and respect all religious beliefs. I ended up talking to her for almost an hour about why I'm not further along on this grief journey. By the time I hung up with her she had me convinced I was doing quite well. I informed her she was now my pastor and she was pleased to accept without making me join her congregation. She's well read on all religions so if I feel like being a budhist that day it's cool. Our snow is more like Utah's...dry. You can't build a snow man or make a snow ball. However, we haven't had a really bad winter in years. We've even had mild temps this week. We have had winters like what you all are experiencing but it's been a while. The easts snow stories make me think of what it must have been like during the civil war and the stories we've heard in history class of what the soldiers were going through mid winter. As for you, my friend, you have helped me through some very difficult times. I am so glad you're here. Not for the reason you have for being here...I will never be grateful for that...but, that you share your strength with us.

my brain just shut down. hmmm...

Well, must be time to stop. Love to you all, Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[summergirl]

Thank you everyone for all of your kind and helpful words....as always they bring me comfort and I try hard to keep that inside my heart. I keep wondering why 5 years should be any different then 1, 2, 3 or 4, or days or months, why do I have to look at it as 5 YEARS !! Jessica is gone and there is no changing it so why do I mark the time??? I was talking to my friend at work the other day, we worked together when Jess left....she told me she thinks of Jessica often and she asked me if I remembered her coming over to my house that morning, I said I did remember hugging her but not what was said, she said "you were washing dishes when I came in" - I just looked at her and said "are you kidding me, I don't remember doing dishes" and she replied "your sister-in-law said you washed alot of dishes" - anyway afterwards I thought "what the hell was wrong with me, why would I be washing dishes when my baby had just left me a few hours before"???? I guess maybe I needed something "normal", if I washed the dishes then the nightmare would go away??? stick to the normal routine and it would continue and Jess would walk through the door??? I have had so many people tell me things about that day right on through the wake and funeral that I have no recollection of.....I guess the mind needs to "not remember" some things.

Have to go put Tavian to bed....he is starting back to therapy next week and I am happy about that, he really needs it and me too. YES another snow day today BUT I had to go to work and my hubby did not so it was a guy day....I was really happy about that. I do believe that our winter is not going to get much better. they are talking another possible storm for next week....

Love to all of you and thank you again.....my friends, my saviors, my life line......Strength to all, Kathy

[Guest msnher]

Kathy -I hadn't thought about snow days for you guys. Your kids will be in school all summer making up for this mess. I hate that any of you have to drive in that mess at all. I pray safety for you all! I wonder if it's possible to NOT count the days, months or years? Would we be better off if we could ignore the time? The only way I know how to do that is to sleep through it. That's not very functional. I hear a lot of people imerse themselves in normal activity upon the news of their child's death. I don't remember much, myself. I know I scrubbed the bathrooms and made sure there was plenty of toilet paper in the bathrooms. Gary tried to run kitchen detail...which, he had never had to do before. We had so much food, so we didn't have to cook. Mainly he just moved food from the counter to the table and back. I don't know why but I got mad at him one morning and with the speed of a bumblebee I cleaned the kitchen and moved all the food to the dining room, except for parishables. Bless his heart. I apologized, of course, and we both cried and he understood. Before Stephanie died I wondered how people look so nice for funerals. Then my sister died and I not only looked nice, but I spoke. And, at my mothers....but at my daughter's I must have dropped to my knees a million times in the bathroom begging God to help me "do this". THAT pain can't just go away because time has passed. We learn to live with it and perhaps the sharp edges are duller, but the hole is still there. Five years worth of space. I think you're doing wonderful!

The kid's dad contacted our attorney this morning and he's called my youngest daughter's husband (his brother) several times to try to find out why we have pulled the visits. He really can't see past himself. He can't see that his kids need the time to heal, that we need the time to become a family. He only sees what's happening to him. When the detective interviewed him the day they took the kids all he could think about was they were taking his kids from him, he never once remarked on the kid's bruises or rape or anything. He kept saying he can't survive without his kids...the detective looked him square in the eyes and told him his kids almost didn't survive with him the night before. He still didn't get it.

I don't think this would be as hard as it is if it wasn't for the fact that my daughter gets pulled into it. I explained what was happening to her and she is 100 percent behind us...but, it is still hard on her marriage. I have to stand strong. For these kids...for us.

Thank you all for listening.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[ericasmom]

I guess I am running around so much trying to be ready for tomorrow that I have had half formed ideas to write to someone here adn have forgotten, so forgive my tardiness in replying to some of the topics of the last few days. Yikes, what a busy week it has been. EXTRA snow for you Kath, Karen, and Carol, on the east and boy, we sure could use some of that. I mean yes, Col, we got about an inch but look at them, 20 inches here, 15 more there, and then again last night. I am a bit jealous. Not for the driving in it part, but for the fun level of things for the kids, and the beauty level too. I know, after a few days fresh snow is blackened and sooty, but boy, I would like a few 10 inch falls for the sledding aspect alone.

Anyhow, be safe. Karen, yep, no car and forced into your home by the huge downfall is exactly where you belong in the universe right now. I am so glad that it feels that way to you. Usually, when we find that we feel that perhaps this is where I need to be, it is indeed the place. The quiet time to sort through the myriad of thoughts might feel like too much, but sometimes it is in those uninterrrupted times that some of the many jigsaw pieces, shards, shake out and find an edge to fit against. Slowly the pieces begin to find their place, and over years we rebuild large parts of our lives, our hearts. There will always be that space there reserved for the life-changing event, nothing could build over that section, but the sun will shine around it, casting light where perhaps none was shone for many months or years. As far as lenient, I was far too lenient for my kids. I simply tried to make up for my own childhood and my beliefs were such that I felt my kids if given a great base of information and love, they could make great decisons. I did not put enough pressure on them for good work, Eri could not produce acceptable work at school due to her learning disabilities, so I compensated by making sure she had time to do the stuff she was good at...skating, swimming, playing ball, and tons of time with friends. Jonathan too, while he did do well inschool through 8th grade, he totally let it all go in high-school and by then he had lived with me and went to Dad's on weekends. The divorce took place when he was in 7th grade. So I over compensated there too. Jon just did what he wanted for a while. I did not fund his antics, I did not let him take Drivers education until his grades came up, I had a curfew earlier than his friends, but still, I did not build in those academic expectations for him and later in life, he wished that someone had held him accountable. He wished he had learned what others did in high school so that college was soemthing he wanted to do and felt he could do. I will always wish that I had done differently with schooling my own kids, but I can't get time back. One thing sure, both my children knew about friendship and had/have great hearts where that is concerned and that is something I am so very happy for.

Sus, that is some powerful info from the social worker adn you jumped on it. Good. I think that boundaries are the best thing that the kids can learn right now. Good luck.

Trudi, wow, figuring the day felt odd and sad and lonely for a reason...I am sorry for the great sadness you are feeling. I know that empty as a drum feeling.

Sherry, sad too? Maybe the time of year, the lack of sunlight making that heightened.

Rhonda, thanks for letting us know about CJ. Good for him but I do hope he is careful around the parents that set him loose at so young an age. ]

whoever said today about how do folks just let go when we are sitting here wondering how to breathe because we had to let go? Right on.

I will report to you guys tomorrow sometime after my presentation. Wish me luck All, and thanks for your support.

[westleysmom]

I guess what is really bothering me now is that I feel like I'm just waiting. I don't feel like I'm really living, you know? Sometimes when I look in the mirror, I see my eyes and they look so empty. And I wonder how people can really think I'm listening to them or hearing what they say or that I give a rat's behind about anything they're saying (family not included here, or you guys) I look at my dead eyes and I think "Will I ever be happy again? Will I ever care about much of anything ever? Or will I be forever stuck in that moment when my heart stopped beating?" I try to care, I really do, and listen and stuff. But its just so hard and I'm so tired. I'm so tired of pretending to live when all I want to do is sleep, just like you Susannah. When anybody looks at me, I just want to scream at them that my son is dead and I don't want to hear anything you have to say. I can't help you, I can't do anything for you, I have nothing to give. I'm empty and dead for all practical purposes. I'm going to bed now and try to sleep very quickly. I don't even want to dream, I just want to sleep. Sleep well friends.

[Guest msnher]

Rhonda - I'm so sorry.

[ericasmom]

Dead eyes Rhonda, I do remember trying to see what was in my heart through my eyes, to see if I was still me after losing ERi. I remember thinking that on some days, I looked like a shark, dead eyes. Flat, no sparkle, no connections.

Holding you with hope in my heart and with eyes that do shine again.

[kmb22]

Edit

[westleysmom]

Dee-I forgot to wish you good luck on the presentation, and I'm sure you're on the way or already there, but good luck. Thanks for the hope, sometimes I guess that's all we get. Maybe it will be enough.

Karen-I love your tree, I've always wanted a willow tree like that. I copied the poem, which I could have written if I had any poetic bones in my tired body. I don't want to be that girl with the dead eyes and I'm trying not to be. I think you may be right that we're not given proof because then it would be too easy to join them. My faith is ragged and worn and my hope is all but nonexistent. And yet I live. I think what got me going was a death in the family and the Oprah episode yesterday afternoon. The first part of the show was about a soldier who was blinded and brain damaged in 2005. He had a wife and two small children, and the story was about his coming back and trying to rebuild his strength and some kind of life. The second part was about a soldier's mother, who they said visited her son 5 or 6 times a year. They showed her gathering pictures and his Corduroy book from when he was little and making the 5+ hour drive to Arlington National Cemetery. She sat at his grave and read Corduroy to him. She said she didn't know why she went, but she just had to. I know the feeling. It was so hard to see all of those graves, all of those sons and fathers buried in rows, which they have to add to all the time. So much sadness, so much pain, so much loss. I get overwhelmed and should have known better than to watch, but it was like a train wreck, I couldn't look away.

Note to self-DO NOT WATCH OPRAH SHOWS THAT INCLUDE BEREAVED MOTHERS

The death in our family was my husband's uncle, the husband of his daddy's sister. She passed away several years ago, and the uncle was 80 years old. They had two children early in their marriage, both of whom died from some type of congenital condition. (I think that's the word) I think one of them lived to be 4 years old and the other one not quite as long, both girls. Later they had two girls who did live and are around my husband's age. The uncle could be quite a curmudgen, even before his wife died. She had some type of dementia and talked about her pregnancies as if they had just happened. After Westley's death, though, to me and to my husband, he was different. He knew we had joined the club, and he knew what it had cost us, double if that even is possible. He always had a smile for me and didn't fight my hugs like he did before. He had been sick for a long time, but when Westley was little, he always had candy for him in his pocket at church, and I think he identified with Westley's all-boyness. I know his daughters will miss him, and his grandchildren and all of us, but then I think of him with his wife, and the two little girls he lost, and I know he's at rest. We've decided it will be best not to take my granddaughter to the funeral home, its at the same one, and less than a week since she was there and had a lot of questions about death that we can't answer. I'll get her and take her to my house and they'll go tonight to visitation and we'll go to the service tomorrow, which is at our church. Burial is in the same cemetery as Westley. That doesn't bother me, I'm there all the time anyway. The snow we got Tuesday night is all melted and its supposed to be warmer.

So I get to pick up my angel today and have something to look forward to. I hope the day gives you all something to look forward to that is good.

[Crystal16]

Dee- You have the luck in the world as Erica will be by your side. I look forward to you reporting back to us.

Rhonda- I feel the same way, my eyes look lost. I can’t emotionally be in a relationship because I can’t give anything of me. Some days I wake numb, others angry and most of the time empty. Hugs to you…

I read every ones heartfelt post and it ignites my spirit. We are all on this journey a painful process that I can relate to each and every one of you. Kathy you said it best, if we had proof it would be easier for us to join them and leave behind the emptiness.

Tomorrow night I am hanging with a few of my friends and doing the Cape Coral, Martini run competition. At least it will be a distraction for me. You go around to the local clubs and taste the different Martini’s they have and rate them also they have appetizers too. Afterwards, a sports club is having a firefighter/police officer event us girls will stop and take in the scenery.

Hugs and peace to all….

[mikesmomrs]

Rhonda: I am glad that your husband's uncle was so in tune with you, though of course, so very sorry that he had the reason that he did, and sorry to hear of his passing. It is sad when someone seems to "waste" the gift of life by being curmudgeonly...Ralph gets that way sometimes and I have to "nudge" him into action...my tongue sometimes wants to go on about it, but I know that it would not do any good, you can't change the past, etc. I remember times when he was short with Mike and didn't go the extra mile to be part of what Mike was doing, and the thought of those wasted opportunities just wrenches my heart...I know that he lives with his own demons over it sometimes, but still, I want to rant at him when something that happens points it out for some reason or other, or more so when another opportunity presents itself now and he doesn't take advantage of it with the grandkids. A good example is this weekend...Cathi wants to bring the boys over for the wrestling show on Sunday...a pay per view that she and I discussed before Christmas. She was going to take them to it, as it's in Boston, but it would have meant getting home VERY late, and she didn't want to be out on the road, in the dead of winter, so very late (likely 2 am) with them, on a school night. So, I said they could come here and watch it and we would bring them to school on Monday. Well, I forgot to mention it to Ralph. He was pretty upset, mostly about their watching wrestling, more than anything else. I've told him before, they are 12 and 13, this is something that will pass, and it is something they both enjoy. It's not pretty, I can't stand it personally, but it doesn't hurt to let them get it out of their system. Mike's older boy, Chandler was REALLY into it for a couple of years, and now he could care less...it's a phase. But Ralph doesn't see it that way. So, instead of sitting with them, sharing their excitement, he is complaining about it "even being watched on his TV." GGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I think that we were all secretly hoping that his kidney cancer scare would have made him a little more mellow, but unfortunately, no such luck! He can be so loving, so giving, but yet oftentimes does not recognize an opportunity to take part and help create memories with these boys for them to carry with them all their lives. Oh, please don't get me wrong, he can be loving, generous (he will put a ten dollar bill in their hand as they go out the door and not even think about it), and soft-hearted...he will sit and draw with them for hours, he will sit and watch cartoons with them (if they are the ones that HE likes...lol), but for other things (that the boys are interested in) he has to be reminded, and as I said, I know that he realizes he missed out on so much with Mike...so why doesn't that spur him on for now? I don't know...I gave up long ago trying to figure it out. I know that his own father was an authority figure only, and unfortunately died when Ralph was only 15, but you would think that would encourage him to be more involved. Wow, I did get off on a rant there, didn't I...sorry about that. Anyway, Rhonda, I think you made the right decision about not bringing your granddaughter to another funeral so soon.

Karen, we do have plenty of room here to put the snow, but as you said, it does pile up on the edges and the walkways have snow piled up pretty high along them. I liked your poem also. And your tree...beautiful. We had tried to plant two of them at our other house when we first built it. They were coming along fine, when they got some disease and just rotted away, no matter what we did. One of them in particular, we had planted on a hill and had to nurse it along to get it to stay straight long enough to get some strength to it, so it was even harder to watch it wither away. I tended to let Mike get away with things when he was younger, too...being the "baby" of the family does seem to unwittingly encourage that. He was expected though to do chores, etc., and he did when he was younger, but as he got older and more involved with sports at school, etc., I would let things slide because I knew he was "busy," forgetting of course, that we all are and that is part of growing up....learning to balance the busy with the necessary and the wants. He was always a good kid though, so it didn't bother me so much when he wasn't there to shovel or take out the trash. He was involved in scouts, church, and school, pretty much full time. He had certain chores to do on Saturday and unless he had sports event for school, he usually got them done....but the stuff taht he should have been doing in order to learn how to do them (laundry, dishes, etc.), usually got done by me. Oh, well...as I said, you can't change the past. I am sorry you are so snowed in...we aren't actually snowed in here, and do get to go out. But, as you said, and I think Dee also said, perhaps taht is where you should be right now. thinking of you and sending hugs to you.

Well, I've used all my time to write the above...have to leave for an inspection and oil change on the van...will come back later. Dee, hope your presentation is going well...meant to post something last night, but fell asleep.

sending love to all,

Carol mikesmomrs

[daveydow1]

Colleen----Here in OH it is cold, but with only moderate amts. of snow, and not Zero or anything that cold. I like the OHIO

rule that it is used at your work. My husband also worked in a shipping/receiving area at one time, and they were also told

"Only handle it Once" , but he never mentioned if the word 'OHIO' was used as a reminder.

Susannah---Thanks for your kind words. I didn't know that the snow in WYO. is very dry, and can't be made into a snowman

or snowballs......not very good for kids who would like those activities. I once went through Wyo. on a road trip, and was

impressed with so many beautiful sghts. Also, that it seemed EVERYONE had a horse or two !!

Kathy----Your story about washing dishes after sweet Jessica's death was touching. Yes, I agree, maybe we did those

day-in-day-out type of things to try to bring back our 'normal' life, our life before our tragedy of losing our beloved children.

I, too, had people tell me things that I simply did not remember at all. I guess we may have been in a state of shock at

those early times following their deaths. As you say....'why do we mark the time....1 yr. 2yr., 5 yrs. etc. ? Just the mind's way

of trying to make any sense out of this lousy road we're on. Peace to you.

Dee-----Lots of luck at the presentation.....hope it all goes well !!

Rhonda----Thanks for telling the story of your husband's uncle. He had a lot of heartache in his life, which made him compassionate.

I, agree,......sometimes it does feel like our hearts stopped beating when our child/children died.....yet we still go on breathing.

I do think it was a good decision not to take your granddaughter to the funeral home. I wish you peace & strength as you visit the

funeral home.....it can't be easy for you, I know. Thoughts & prayers, friend.

Karen----Thanks for that poem. It sure is true. I loved your pic of the willow tree in the yard. So very nice that you go there with your

coffee and just feel the comfort that it brings to you. It's a nice little sanctuary of peace for you.....I'm glad that you have it. We should

all look for some sort of place that can bring us peace.......my place is in nature.....some nice quiet place. Once, when my husband

and I were taking a walk on a 'less-traveled' path at a metropark, we sat on rocks beside the stream where ducks were paddling

around. It became cloudy and overcast, and it began to sprinkle softly. As the large drops fell in the slow-moving water, the rings

from the drops continued to go out further & further. So peaceful. It was the same park we went to the day after Davey was killed.

That time we searched out a remote spot up on a hill, and just sat and looked up at the sky.

Carol---I so know what you mean. My husband was often very gruff and indifferent with Davey when he was growing up. ( my husband's

father was a drinker, who was mostly either remote, or raging ). As you say....Ralph must also be living with his own demons about this.

My husband was always much more of a disciplinarian with David than with Becky. Even when they were adults. To give him credit, he

always talked to Dave and gave him advice, played golf with him, and talked sports etc. I know that sometimes it is on the tip of the

tongue to say something, but I try to just let it go....I know that my husband suffers tremendously about Dave's death......his only son.

You mention Ralph will watch cartoons with the grandies........I, too, get caught up in that,...and I am better at it if I like the particular

cartoon.....(can't stand that noisy Spongebob ), but just put myself in another 'zone' when they want to watch it.

PEACE & TRANQUILITY TO ALL INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[ericasmom]

HI ALL< I am back from my presentation, I am tired adn taking a nap, but just want to let you know that I had you all there with me and with you there, I was strong. Eri sat on my shoulder, helping me stay fluid.

thanks again,

sleep time

[ericasmom]

I just took an almost 3 hour nap...does that length even constitute as a nap? My goodness I am fuzzy and feeling out of sync, what day is it anyway. I guess I spent a good deal of energy this week being nervous, it laid me out. I also had a week of poor sleep. So there, it felt mighty nice to snuggle into a cove of blankets and deeply rest.

My place is also in nature Sherry, I am right there in the park. To you and Carol, I know that the sharp words spoken or the lack of time spent in the lives of our children are sore spots for any parent that was not able to bring themselves to listen or to find the effort. Michael too was not involved much in the day to day events of our Childrens' lives. He was always on the peripheral. He would come home right before they went to bed, and on the weeken he was home but was drinking a bit much and so I took the kids out. It wasn't until the divorce, then he was forced into a time where he interacted adn spent a ton of energy with the kids. Thank heavens he had that, it built their relationships into a bond that filled them all.

Rhonda, a sweet uncle indeed. I am glad that you had him in your life, and that he had you. He was met by sweet angels.

Karen, thanks for that poem, lovely and true. WE see yourselves in those words.

Crystal, it should be a wonderful night for you and your friends. You have fun, it is okay to have fun you know.

I hope everyone is doing well, as well as time and circumstances allow. Peace out.

[Bensmummy]

Hello Indigo's I just dropped in for a quick read and to say hello. I understand what you mean about dead eyes Rhonda..... I got them too.. I often get taken aback when I catch my reflection in the mirror ..it doesnt look like me..I dont feel familiar with my face anymore. I also find it hard when people ask something of me or expect more than I have to give. I USE to be the sort who would run around doing stuff for people all the time... not anymore ..Im very much a get stuffed and do it yourself girl now ..LOL. sounds horrible I know but I have only the energy for my two little kids let alone take on the world. I dont care as much about the world anymore...it just sucks.

I went into this store the other day and a mother who's son I had started teaching some art too...says to me..I was wondering where you got too as I wanted Mich [her son] to do some more art with you. Now she knows I lost my boy 6 months ago and yet she wonders where I have been??? Nowhere actually I said, funny thing about losing a child you just dont want to go anywhere or do anything and Im not wanting to do private art lessons right now sorry I will let you know if I ever recover enough from losing Ben to start lessons again. Jeepers woman Im thinking. It was alot to do with the tone of her voice...very loud and demanding. Im trying to keep on top of what I have to do as far as my employment goes let alone other stuff.

Tomorrow will be interesting.....we have a cyclone heading our way..not a usual event for us down here the last one was in 1978 and that killed 5 people and caused lots of damage. My son Jake is 20 years old today and he lives in the city which will get hit first. He seems quite excited ..the reason been he has just struck out on hi own in his own business as a landscaper...and the prospect of gardens getting tree's knocked down seems a good business point for him...I said be careful of what you wish for ! Young ones see positives in the weirdest of things and he is a compassionate boy but I think he lost his head for a moment there ..LoL Im going to ring him in a minute and tell him his birth story. He will moan all the way through it but each of my kids have allowed me no matter what to repeat their own little birth story to them on their birth dates. Even if they are not talking to me or grumpy or me with them. I get to do this. Jake is an interesting one as he was a breech baby.

Well thats my bit of news and trivia for the day. Take care all of you and hugs Michelle

[mysonrich]

Hello everyone, we had 17-20 inches of snow and there are flurries now with another storm predicted for Tuesday! Heavy, wet snow great for making snowmen/ladies and snowballs. Also hard to walk through. It is very beautiful though, weighing down the tree branches on the evergreens and snow icing on otherwise barren tree limbs. Winter continues.

Rhonda, during the first year after Rich's death I slept a lot. I saw Rich in my dreams and I wanted to stay asleep to be near him . Some dreams were quite funny and I am glad for his visits ,but after time, a rested body and mind and perhaps knowing he lives somewhere else in time/space, I was able to continue on, another step. I'm so sorry you are feeling this way and I understand.

Karen, the stranger in the mirror. The depth of pain reflected in my own eyes, thinking, who is this person and what could I possible care about now that my world, my son's life, here, is over? I still struggle. The past snowfall takes me back to 1996. Boy, was that a snowstorm. I picture Rich outback building a snow fort and now kick myself for not staying out longer with him. The little things that hurt so much and as others have said, the memory seemingly comes from out of the blue to jolt us yet again. I guess that is the way it will always be. Maybe, as Dee says, just a little softer with time.

I have some catching up to do and my after work coffee is ready. A break at the end of the day and I'll be back.

[daveydow1]

Dee----Glad that the presentation went well. It sounds as though you had a rather rough week leading up to

the presentation with nervous exhaustion......hence the 3 hr. nap. Glad that you were able to rest & refresh.

Oh,....I so know what you mean about taking a nap that is a bit 'overlong'. I, too, will wake up feeling fuzzy,

and a bit 'headache-y' whenever I do that. My husband pretty much ignored Davey, or was not around for

him......also drinking too much...when Davey was little (and Becky )....it was through a trial separation that

seemed to hit him in the face about missing out on their lives. He learned a lesson and reformed. I have

to say that he spent a lot of good quality time with them after that, and when they were gown up. For that,

I am so grateful, and I think that Jon & ERz was glad to have closeness with their dad .

Betsy-----17-20 inches of snow !!! Oh, this is getting OLD, isn't it ?

Michelle-----I agree.....we definitely don't have the energy for life that we used to have, before our dear children

left this world. I'm glad that you told that lady you were just not ready to take on the art lesson again for her son.

People who have never walked this rough road have no clue as to how tiring the work of grief can be. Grief is

hard work. Some think that you should just 'move on' after 6 mo., 1 yr. etc. Of course, that is THIER timetable...

not that of a grieving parent. That lady showed herself to be rather rude in the way she asked you where you

have been , in a loud voice. It can be maddening when other people 'give you permission' to grieve only so

much time, and then you should be over it. When anyone says that to a grieving parent , they should be told..

"don't tell me how to grieve". You are so new to this bumpy road,......and you miss your dear BEN so very much.

There is no timetable.......just however you deal with your grief, in your own way. Peace to you, friend.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[ericasmom]

Sherry, I am so glad that your husband found his way back to the family. Mike quit drinking after I gave a mandatory, "go to the doctor or leave the house" and he went to the doc who told him that if he continued to drink he would die young from liver disease. That his liver showed signs of an enzyme that is the beginning. So he was scared and cold turkey quit, but that was something that lasted for about a month and he began to drink again. He felt if he worked out and drank less, that he would be able to handle it. What people don't see when they are the ones drinking, is the family moving on without them. I took the kids to every museum in Chicagoland each time inviting him to go with, "maybe next time". We spent hours in parks and librairies and plays and just strolling about or roller skating. The kids and I went swimming every day of summer, and eventually I found that as a married woman, I had no parnter. I ended the marriage which was very hard for all of us and terribly sad for Michael. He just couldn't believe it. He begged to stay, said that he would now go to therapy (as I had begged for a long while) but I was done. You know, that sense of this door is closed. I wished him well and he left, but not until the day of the actual court date of divorce. So there i lived with him, I slept in a sleeping bag on the enclosed porch each night while student teaching, waitressing and studying, because he would not leave until he was made to. It was pretty hard on everyone.

Finally when he settled into a place, the kids began their every thursday and every other weekned with him which started Mike's deepest times with his kids. THEre they were finding what to do each thursday night. What dinner to prepare, how to sit and do homework with two kids, how to plan a weekend that put the kids at the center...I am so glad that they all shared that connection, some of their best times were had in those years, the ski trips and day to day as well, as the three of them discovered who each was in this group. Hard times but out of them, goodness.

Betsy, holy COW! that much more snow? Goodness knows this must be pretty today but I do understand it not being a welcome sight for many. Be careful out in it, and I hope that it is a peaceful setting for you. I know what you mean about those memories that come flying into the brain: the snowfort, the laughter and jovial times, the kicking oneself in the butt for not being able to spend more time. I bet the time you spent was well spent time Betsy. I bet that you threw a snowball or two in your days with the Kids.

Michelle, give that Birthday boy a hug from all of us, he can groan even louder. I love that the kids endure that story each year. I know that if questioned late in life about what are some of your favorite memories, all of them will say, "My Mum called us each year at our birth time and re-told our story."

As I might like to say to the lady that says stupid things such as where have you been, my son needs more classes: you know I have been pretty selfish with my grief. I am sifting through my life and the death of my beloved child and just want to wallow in it for a bit more. I will drop you a line when I am finished with this whole sadness-business. Michelle, we want to write a book called, " Oh No You Did Not Just Say That...a book of stupid remarks said to parents in grief."

One teacher said two years after ERi died, " I want to get together to discuss our curriculum this summer."

I said, " fine, any time in June or August is fine with me."

" Why not in July?" she asks.

"Well, I just don't know if my head can be in it, and I prepare for our ERI-Fest each year in July, so I leave July out of any plans other than my own."

With a look of surprise on her face she says, " are you kidding, you still need to set aside time after this long?"

"No Mona, I am not kidding, do you think the death and anivessary of the death of one's child is something to kid about? Have you by the way, forgotten the birth of any of your Chidlren? No? Well why would you expect me to forget about the death of mine?"

Boy, I get angry all over again. But these are the common statements by the people in our lives that we find we really do not need or want to be around. We learn to be much more selective with our time and energy. Blessings to you.

[lolynbo]

HEY GANG STILL WAITING ON THAT DERN LAPTOP...

CHECKED ON THE PRICE ON DIGITAL BILLBOARD TODAY FOR KOURTNEYS BDAY...JUST GOTTA FIGURE OUT WHAT PIC I WANT TO USE $100 FOR 3 DAYS....SDS AFFORDABLE FOR ME..WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO HUH

IM CHCKN IN ON MY PHONE BUT HARD TO CHAT WITH YAL...AND DONT LIKE TO USE MY WORK COMPUTER EITHER FOR CHATTN...

HOPE ALL LARE WELL..MISS AND LOVE ALL YAL

[mikesmum]

I feel like I'm just waiting. I don't feel like I'm really living, you know

I felt like this for so long, and still do at times. I seem to 'fill in' my waiting with grandies and things, but I guess I'm still waiting. The 'empty eyes' something I found early in this journey. Not so much mine, but when I saw other people, without knowing their story, I could tell the loss was of a child.

Funny how those who have no 'experience' of loss at this level find it amazing that we still 'prepare' ourselves for the days weeks leading up to that life altering day.

Carol - Ah yes the 'grumpy old man syndrome'. Forgetting to 'run it by' Ralph not a major problem, but the silent protest rages. Mal has just gone through the same thing. I forgot to run having Zak and Jeya this Monday - Tuesday. Its the last days before the school year. I was thinking movie and sleepover. Mal was thinking "True Grit" and dinner out, I'm mor inclined to 'Tangled and Macca's'. But he will as a show of good faith begrudingly settle for whatever we decide.

Dee - Living like a single mum while your other half lives in the house till the last minute not an easy ask of anyone. But knowing you, the tenacity and strengths you show here and in your life, your path was clear. I'm sure Eri and Jon got to know Michael more over those later years. Glad your presentation went well, never a doubt in my mind.

Colleen - Yes my mindset whether it be intentional or subconsciously is clearly defined by my 'environment'. There seems to be a softening of the 'ache' at the ocean. Maybe due to the anonymity of my exsistence there. The hills seems to amplify the 'grief'.

Betsy - OMG 17-20 inches with more on the way. We are looking at 40C tomorrow (Sunday). Will send you thoughts of sand surf and sun. You might want to package some of that snow and send it over, I'm already prone to hot sweaty flushes....ahhh menopause....love it.

Michelle - Hold tight, hopefully it will all blow through with minimal damage. It would seem that the land downunder is certainly coping its fair share of 'crazy weather'. The wall of water is moving through Victoria taking so much with it. Here in the Yarra Valley we seem to be (knock on wood) safe. Hope your son enjoys the 'birthday birth story'. Haven't ever given mine their details...maybe one day..

Sherry - When Zak was in hospital having his appendix out last year he had Square Pants, on a loop......Doing the sleepover in the ward it went from 5am till 11pm. Tuning out or stuffing a pillow over your head was such a relief.

Lorri - The billboard sounds amazing. The picture to use is the one that give the best clarity when up there. The image on canvas is so beautiful. If there is a pic that you can blowup without distortion go with that. Either way your beautiful baby girl will be out there for all to see.

Well, time is marching. Jeya has Kinder orientation this Wednesday. Em has her first day of High School on Friday (yep one day on then two off). Granma is back at the ocean on Friday. My baby brother is coming to the Bay with friends so we will do a catch up then.

Off to the shops to look for something to wear. Forgot all my clothes are at the bay, didn't think to pack to come here......DUMBASS.

Love to you all.........Trudi and a short haired Muttley Dog

[aim630]

I know what you all mean about "dead eyes". I feel like I am existing, but not really living. I do agree with Kathy that if we had proof, it would be so much easier to leave here & join them.

Jeff is Ashley's step-dad, although we met when she was 2, and married when she was almost 4, so she really didn't know life without him. As she got to be a teenager, she would do things that would just drive him crazy & he would get so mad at her. (he was a military man, Ashley was about as messy & sloppy as they come). That was the main thing they fought about (her not cleaning her room or doing her chores). He also did not go to her soccer games when she was little, and missed the first couple of years of her softball games. The last couple of years he started to come watch, and realized he enjoyed it. She was the pitcher for her softball team. He is so much easier on Katie, not really caring if her room is clean, and she doesn't really have chores (very spoiled). Also, he made Ashley get a job when she turned 16 so she could pay her own car insurance. (we did give her a car). Katie has had a car since she turned 16, and almost 2 yrs later, still does not have a job. Katie gets all A's and is 2nd in her class & spends alot of time on homework. Ashley was more a B student, but now I feel like it was my fault for making her get a job. If she could have spent more time on her homework, maybe she would have stayed in college. I started working 2 days after I turned 16, and have worked ever since. I managed to keep my grades up, so I thought Ashley could do the same. When she went to college, we would not let her take her car, and told her just to get a part-time job on campus for spending money. She was 3 hrs away and lasted about a month without her car. She got a job at McDonald's so she could have her car at college, then spent all her time working & not going to class. I feel so guilty about all this, and would like to throw it in Jeff's face (like, I told you so...). I know he feels guilty himself for the missed opportunities and the stupid fights. He has mellowed out a lot in the past year, but I hate that it took this for him to learn to let things go..

It has been so stressful at work recently. We bought out another company, and they just moved into our office. We are in the process of switching their payroll system onto our own, so along with my normal payroll, I am helping someone from the new company with theirs, and things keep going wrong. The other person thinks nothing of working till 8 PM-her husband works in California (?), and her grown children live in the South, so no one is at her house. I don't want to work from 7:30 AM to 8:00 PM, but it is my responsibility to make sure this payroll gets done. Plus the fact that we are approaching the one year anniversary for Ashley, and I know no one will remember or say anything, and that makes me upset. When I first went back to work they told me they were going to take Ashley's picture off my desk so I wouldn't have to look at it. I told them of course I wanted it on my desk, I wasn't going to deny that she ever existed!

I am sorry I am rambling. Tomorrow we are getting 2 more of the grandkids, Audrey who is 7 & her brother Lucas who is 4. They are quite a handful, no where near as calm as Autumn. I love them all the same, but these 2 are quite exhausting. Really Katie pretty much keeps them entertained, so I shouldn't complain.

I read over the posts from the past couple of days, sorry I did not respond personally to any of them. I am thinking of all of you & you don't realize how you help me get through the days.

I should try to get some sleep tonight (although I am usually awake most of the night anyway, tomorrow night will be impossible with the kids here).

Goodnight all,

Amy/Ashley's mom

[briansdad]

I couldn't sleep last night and I think Brian was contacting me. He gave me a great idea and when I have it ready I'll share.

[summergirl]

"Dead Eyes" - saw then for a very long time but one day actually looked and saw Hope and Love...oh the sorrow is still there but no longer the dead eyes. For me it is the aging - seems as though I aged 10 + years in a moment, I look at pics of me when it was "Life with Jessica" and I have a hard time remembering who that person was as she looked so young and so happy....now I look at pics of me "Life after Jessica" and I no longer see that young and so happy woman. I will never be that person again but I have found a new me....one who is there for Tavian and seeing him happy and healthy puts a bit of shine in my eyes and a smile on my face.

Oh the snow - yes we have plenty and more to come I am afraid.....I don't mind the snow (hate the cold) and I don't mind driving in it, I am more afraid of how others drive - that scares me. I lived in Iowa for 8 years so this ain't nothing compared to some of the snow storms we went through there...lol

So last night Tavian was talking to me and all of the sudden he said "mi-mi, when you and pop-pop get old I will take care of you", I said "that is so sweet of you, thank you so much" and he said "it's ok, I will put you guys in a nursing home and I will come visit you every day" - I was laughing so much inside but didn't dare let him see it as he was SO serious - I said "oh, I thought you would let us live with you and you would take care of us??" and his reply "no, but I will build a house next to the nursing home if you want me too" - I just gave him a big hug and told him how much I loved him. Where would I be without him !!!

Lori - I love the idea of the bill board - we better see pics.....your beautiful Kourtney will be smiling and Jessica will be sending me signs that she wants to be put on a bill board too........

I am going to download some pics of the snow and post them for you. Love, peace and strength to all and thank you all for always being here........Kathy

[ericasmom]

Kathy, you sound so much more peaceful today. I am glad to 'hear' the shine in your eyes.

Amy, I am glad that you write down what is in your heart. It is, I think, one of the best ways to let loose of those constricting thoughts and damaging energies. Yes, my husband John is Eri's and Jonathan's step dad. Eri was 13 when I married, could I have picked a more awkward age for her to deal with change? Anyhow, her sloppy habits drove him crazy and for a time, I was unsure if I could weather the storms of their arguments and discomfort. I was middleman. ICK, hate that position. But eventually, they learned how to live under the same roof, never without some tension, but hey, teenagers and tension go hand in hand. But I do wonder too Amy, if I had never moved Erica and me to John's home and married, would she have gone to Michigan to live? If she adn I stayed in the house I owned, the house my kids grew up in, would she have felt less inclined to leave? I know that she always talked about moving out when she was old enough, so perhaps she would have anyway. I will never know?

I think I made it sound earlier that I took my kids all over the place because of Mike's drinking. That was not why my kids knew every beach adn park within a 20 mile radius. that part was simply who I was as a MOm of kids. My own mom did not leave the house very often at all, she never pushed me in a swing or took me for a walk unless it was to the doctors office. She never took us to libraries or amusement parks or museums. I heard about it from other kids adn their families. I longed to do those things. I swore that if I got to be a mom, i would go out with my kids all the time. I did, I loved being outside with them or in new and enticing places. I loved learning alongside them about all the many things in the world adn I was able to see them through the young eyes of my children.

My fantasy when I married was that one day my husband and I would push the stroller together on long walks. I pushed the buggies alone however, each time hearing, maybe next time. It broke my heart that we were not joined in these simple acts of parenthood. Michael had good intentions, but his own father did not take part in the kid's lives either, and so it became a pattern of my doing and his staying back. He had good intentions, a good heart, but he had a drinking problem that kept getting in the way of his heart.

I do miss him.

Lorri, get the damn thing fixed, we miss you. I love the idea for the billboard. One hundred dollars, i would think it more...

Greg, how nice of Brian to come to you with a great idea. Can't wait to see what it is.

Trudi, how can it already be time for school to begin for the kids? How long was their break? Give Em a hug for her start to high school. Blessings to them all for a great school year. Have fun with your Little Brother. How goes the calligraphy? Are you still practicing your work?

[mikesmum]

Dee - The kids are off from the week before Christmas till usually the last week of Jan. This year they stretched it to the first week of Feb. Its sooooo loooong. Its our summer so I guess they make the most of the 'good weather'.

Em and I have a sleepover Sunday then a girls day planned for Monday. Its the last week before she becomes a high schooler. I remember our girls days from way back. Not much has changed, well maybe more than I think.

Looks like shopping, lunch and maybe a manicure......not Chipmunks movies, Macca's and snooze....

[shorty16]

Dee - My kids also know the parks and ponds within our area - Dog parks also. Since both Scott and I work full time, we made a point to take road trips; both near and far.

I can remember when Brian would have 3-5 friends sleep over on any given Saturday night. I would take the gang to the dog park. Run both the dog and kids at the same time. Many of his friends had dogs, but had never been there. The same for many of the other areas I would take those boys to allow my husband to sleep on Sunday morning.

I feel good about that and we have many great memories from those experiences.

Lannon Quarry is a real quarry that flooded and is now a park and swimming beach. Fresh water filled via underground water sheds. Many, Many trips to this quarry. We still buy yearly passes for each of our vehicles for this park system.

Thanks for allowing me to remember those good times today, Dee

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[shorty16]

Greg - How cool is that!!!

I cannot wait to see it.

Your Brian is with the other angels. Like we get ideas from each other, they too get ideas from the each other.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[shorty16]

Michelle

I read you are getting introduced to our vitual book

"Oh No You Didn't Just Say That"

I started a bible study class shortly after Brian's death. This bible class was at the church where Brian's funeral was held. As we all do, I cried several times before the class. The leader turned to me and said

"It has been a little over a year and it still bothers you this much?"

I stayed for about 3-4 more meetings, but I could not get over the lack of empathy in this religious leader?

We will all encounter someone who deserves to be in this book.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

So, this is how I read and respond (usually) to BI. I find the last post I read the last time I was on and read from there...then I post and try to remember each person and sometimes have to scroll down to remember what was said. I used to have two screens up so I could read and post at the same time. Come to think of it, that's probably a more efficient way. Problem is I get confused easily these days and can't remember which screen I'm writing on and which screen I'm reading on and then mix them up and have to start over. I tell you all that because I began reading this morning where I left off and then see that Colleen commented on Michelle's post and I hadn't read it. It was posted before the last one I read but I swear I didn't see it. I tell you THAT to tell you if I slight anyone it isn't on purpose it's because I've become an embocile.

Kathy - I laughed out loud and then had to read it to Gary about Tavian taking care of you and Barry. That is too funny!!

I know the dead eye look. I think I'm getting some shine back in my eyes except that I've aged so much that who cares? Sheese, I used to be the queen of vanity. Seriously. I was cute. You'll have to take my word for it because if you ever meet me you'll notice I'm not so cute anymore. I'm old. The last three years has taken its toll on my appearance. Wrinkle city and I've gained 20 pounds and I don't exercise - ever - at all - have no intention of starting - so the extra 20 pounds just sort of hangs there. I don't even care that I'm not cute anymore. I kind of like getting older. I seriously don't want to be here (earth) one day longer than I have to be.

But, in the mean time, I do have to get out of bed today. All this talk about parks and walks has me thinking maybe the kids and I should actually do something today. I'll begin with cleaning up the dog poop from the back yard. With all the snow and then freezing, it's not so easy to pick up.

Love to you all!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[ericasmom]

Have fun with the kids Sus.

Col, love your color combo in your post. Super pretty. Yes, I remember when the pastor said that to you and I thought then, that certainly there should be an edit button on some people's remarks. Ah, but then we wouldn't have the makings for a book.

Going to go to the gym, I have been a sleepaholic the last few days without much movement, time to push myself a bit.

Love to all,

dee

[mikesmomrs]

Sus: " I tell you THAT to tell you if I slight anyone it isn't on purpose it's because I've become an embocile" ...join the club...and please don't worry about slighting anyone...we all have the same course...sometimes we can address a lot of posters, and sometimes we can't...I think we all understand that and we don't worry about it..neither should you.

Kathy: I too loved the post about Tavian's "plan" to "take care of you and Gary." At least he's offering...lol!

Dee: We tried to do a lot, too...moving around with the Air Force for 26 years gave us a lot of opportunity, and we did take advantage of some of them, but some we unfortunately bypassed. We lived here in NH for three different tours, and I wish we had taken up winter sports...I know the kids would have benefitted from that. When they were younger, we did a lot, but as they got older and I went back to work full time, it was mostly trying to keep up with them and their school activities. Kim was in a lot of school stuff (FHA, teaching aid, debate, etc.), as was Cathi, (Cathi was actually an altar server!) and then Mike was in as many as he could juggle, in school and out, with Scouts thrown in for good measure...so we were always going somewhere for someone. But the best times were when we were in the car, going someplace together. Usually lots of talking...of course, these were the blessed days before DS and Iphone, cell phones or MP3! lol! Some of the times that really stand out were a few times we went camping...we took Mike to a campsite in Italy, on the southern tip, Gallipoli, and we actually stayed in a tent...all of us went to a lake in Texas and spent a week. We went to Padre Island and camped in our pickup camper, which were the days when you could do that. Cathi got stung by a jellyfish, but other than that, it was a lot of fun. We went to Lake Tahoe, the week before Christmas and stayed til Christmas eve; we had just gotten back from Guam, and wanted to see SNOW! That particular year, it hadn't snowed all season up there, but we went anyway...already had the reservation. The night before we were supposed to go, they got 20 inches! We had to put snow chains on and barely got there, but we had SUCH a good time! Even Ralph had a good time on those trips. Usually it was that he would say "Do we have to go?" And, I would say "Yes." and then he would wind up having a good time. But that "getting him to go" could be a downer sometimes. He used to drink, too, but thank God, quit while we were on Guam (1979). Cold turkey. Hasn't had a beer since that day. Again, thank God. Actually, he never really drank much before Guam, not in a problematic way, anyway, but for some weird reason, he increased the beer intake shortly after we got there, til it was unacceptable. Anyway, it is strange how once we open the doors of memory, things come back to us that we hadn't thought of in a long time.

Col, I remember that Bible study group, too...and how upset you were about what was said. Yes, definitely a shoo-in for the "Oh, no, you didn't just say that" book!

Trudi: Your school vacation is shorter than ours...ours goes from mid June to usually the first of September. Too long, I've always thought. I think it should be shorter and more often...some school have entertained doing 45 on and 15 off...don't know if that would work, though, for a variety of reasons. How do you feel about that, Dee? Yes, the visits with em have certainly changed over the years...I am glad she is going to be spending time with you before she jumps off into high school...a huge leap, for sure! Yes, do give her hugs from us. And do have a good visit with your baby brother.

Greg: Can't wait to see what wonderful thing Brian sent to you! "Your Brian is with the other angels. Like we get ideas from each other, they too get ideas from the each other." I like this, Col, and truly agree with your words.

Amy: "Ashley was more a B student, but now I feel like it was my fault for making her get a job. If she could have spent more time on her homework, maybe she would have stayed in college." Oh, does this statement ever point out to us how useless regret and guilt can be...I encouraged Mike to NOT get a job...I wanted him to dedicate his time to his studies and school activities...didn't want him having to think about anything else. I have often wondered if I had let him get a job, would he have been more responsible and "...stayed in college." I guess we will never know the answers to those questions, but then, even if they were still here, we would never have known what the "other choice" would have resulted in. Good luck with your two rambunctious grandies...Kam and Chandler were like that, and took all of my energy when they were little. Lots of good memories, though. I hope you got some sleep last night in preparation for your visit.

The SNOW...oh, the SNOW! Even I've had enough, and I love it! We are supposed to be looking at another storm this Wednesday with "lots of potential" but nothing certain yet. This morning I sat here at the computer for a few hours buying baseball tickets...so that encourages me to "wish away the rest of the winter months" even more! I still haven't gotten tickets for opening day, but I did manage to get the six tickets we need for Mike's birthday game, in August...YAY! It is pretty difficult to get SIX tickets together at once. Can Spring be far behind?!

Yesterday was a beautiful, sunny day, and we did go out...had to renew the registration on the van. Then we went by to see if Mike's wreath was still in one piece...it was, and the snow was too deep to go out and retrieve it. A lot of the standing stones out there are nearly buried, and Mike's bench was almost covered over, while the bench right next to his was completely covered over and gone from sight! Ralph even treated me to lunch...so I got a broiled seafood platter...sea scallops, fantail shrimp, lobster and haddock, covered with Ritz cracker crumbs and melted butter! MMMMM....was it good! (He had a salad with broiled shrimp) Just driving around was nice; it was so bright and sunny and with so much snow the sun is of course intensified. Just beautiful.

We are still working with the VHS onto the DVD stuff...yesterday we redid Mike's last birthday onto DVD from the VHS...tears, many. Hearing his voice...wishing and wishing and wishing... I am so glad we have the recording though, as we didn't have much from when he was an adult. In it was also a clip of my lifelong friend, Rita, who died of cancer not long after Mike left us. We didn't know at the time of Mike's birthday party that she had developed a brain tumor...her breast cancer had metastasized and she wound up having to have brain surgery three weeks later. She recovered from that, but it had also spread to her liver and just about everywhere else. I miss her so much. I am so grateful for the 49 years of friendship we had, but it is so hard to not have her in my life now. Glad I have her on tape, too. I had taken a tape of her for her son, also, and Ralph put that onto DVD...that brought back so many memories, too.

Well, I am rambling now, and need to get some things done. I hope you all have had a pleasant Saturday. Betsy: I know that you posted, but that is now on page 2 and I can't see that, so I will just say that it was good to see your post and your sweet Rich's smile. (I wish we were able to review more than the page we are on, without losing our reply post that we are working on.)

Dee: Didn't you have a second day for your presentation? I hope it was a good one...I know that it would have been for your attendees!

love and peace to ALL of my wonderful Indigo family...whatever would I do without you all? carol mikesmomrs

[Guest msnher]

2:15pm....It says it's only 41 outside but it feels much warmer. I raked the backyard and helped my daughter in law rake hers. The kids have been playing outside all day so far. We took a trip to Home Depot and picked up happy meals on the way home so the kids could have a picnic outside. Now, Grandma needs to rest, so I sent Mariah's friend home and told the kids it was time for "quiet time" in their rooms. Mariah fought with me about her friend having to leave. I let her walk her friend home and stood on the corner until Mariah got back...they just live down the hill from us...same block...so...Mariah walks up the drive way as far away from me as she could get and instead of picking up her stuff from the front yard, where I was, she ignored my request and went right in her room and shut the door. I told her if that's how she acts when it's time for her friend to go home she won't get to have her back. I mean, her friend was with us all day...home depot...burger king and picnic. I am SO not looking forward to puberty!!!! Been there done that. I have patience in areas where I didn't and less where I did. I should don't put up with disrespect.

Now, I have to take a nap. My body is screaming at me for everything I've done today but other than vacuuming, I've not done one thing in the house. Oh well.

Carol - Kathy's husband is Barry (isn't he?) mine is Gary... so cute though. My daughter in law got a good laugh out of it, too. She wants to know how an 8yr old knows he has that option...LOL

[daveydow1]

Trudi-----YIKES....18 solid hours of Spongebob.!!! Can't think of anything worse....but I bet Zak loved watching

the "little yellow sponge from the deep", and all his goofy looking sea creature friends. My grandies like that

too. We gave them Spongebob PJ's for Xmas.....one pr. for each, so they didn't fight.

Dee-----I do know what you mean about too much drinking, and how it separates a family. Jon & ERz must

have enjoyed those many times you had at the museums, going swimming, to parks etc. It was good quality

time spent with them. Sad to say,....drinking breaks up a lot of families. It's good that Michael ended up having

a lot of good times with Jon & ERi.....especially since his life was cut short, and he must have been so glad

for that time, since sweet ERz left this world before he did. I'm sorry.

PEACE TO ALL.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[lolynbo]

DEE ME TOO DRIVING ME CRAZIER...OH LAPTOPPPPP WHERE IS YOU....THIS IS THE PIC I DECIDED ON WITH ALOT OF HELP FROM FRIENDS...

WE NO ALL OUR ANGELS WANT THEIR NAME IN LIGHTS...LOL

GONNA SAY "HAPPY HEAVENLY BIRTHDAY KOURTNEY LYNN BRACKETT CARGAL WE LOVE YOU "

[mikesmomrs]

Susannah: Sorry about changing your husband "just like that" with just a different letter or two! But, "it's because I've become an imbecile", as you said earlier...lol! Of course, my mind knows that Gary is your husband and Barry is Kathy's...it's just that it doesn't translate to my fingers

I am glad the kids had a good time today...as for Mariah's finding a way to "pay back" for your sending her friend home...yes, as you said...you dread puberty. I don't know if I could go through that again, but we do do what we have to do, don't we...

Trudi: Mike LOVED spongebob, fortunately for the boys...unfortunately for anyone in the house...he even got their "complete season" so they could watch it "whenever!" The ludicrous antics of the show used to drive my analytical mind insane...ice cream under the ocean; drinking water under the ocean...crazy. But, of course, I would give anything to hear that crazy voice in the background again, and know that it would be accompanied by Mike's presence. I get to come under the influence of "Despicable Me" tonight. Kameron is here, due to some drama at his grandparents' house, and he and Ralph are going to watch it tonight.

Speaking of Ralph, he finally passed the 100 lb mark day before yesterday, officially. We go up to Dartmouth next month to do the follow up PET scan of his lungs...they had found some lesions there that they couldn't identify, and we are all hoping they are just scars leftover from previous bouts with pneumonia and bronchitis. All we can do is wait and see. Meantime, he is doing really well, and his numbers, though not gotten better, have not gotten worse. His primary care told him on Wed that he thinks he is "far from dialysis at this time." Thank God.

got to fix dinner...love to all. Those of you having a particularly rough few days, know that I hold you close in my heart and send prayers for peaceful moments to find your heart, even if only briefly.

carol mikesmomrs

[ericasmom]

Oh heavens, sponge bob in anything more than 10 minutes is hellious. I always thought he looked like a tooth with decay, you know like the cartooned affects of too much sugar back in the 60's kind of thing. I just plain think that the cartoon is ugly but I admit, I have never listened to it to know the personalities of the characters. I really dislike modern cartoons, which makes me sound like an old bitty. Maybe I am, but I love the old cartoons, Foghorn/Leghorn, Road Runner, Daffy Duck...Mighty mouse, Snaglepus...

Sus, sounds like a busy day with kids, glad that the weather was good for outdoor play.

Amy, hope the little ones let you sleep last evening and that you get some more tonight.

Crystal, how was the night out?

Carol, love your memories of camping and enjoying time with the Kids and Ralph. Yep, I presented again today at 4:00-5:30 with about 18 people in my group. It was a fun group, willing to write and read what they wrote and ask questions and make comments. It was delightful and I received their feedback from the critique sheets left to them. Very positive and so now my weary bones are also relieved.

Carol, many school districts are trying out full year school with in and out times throughout the year. I think it has merit but the trouble is for families of children in two or three schools, scheduling them for the off times is almost impossible and day care issues are also difficult. But I agree, as much as I love, LOVE my summer break, the time away is very hard on kids as far as retaining information. I still love it though, long days o freading in the yard, napping in the yard under the river birch. Oh how I love it, long bike rides adn walks.

Well, I am going to go join my husband downstairs for a bit before I hit the sack. Perhaps a glass of wine...

[mikesmum]

Ahh cartoons from the 'good ole days'. Mike loved Marvin the Martian and Tazzie the Tasmanian Devil.

He would draw Marvin for my nephew Luke who had CF. He painted a few and when Luke was in hospital for treatment his room would be a sea of various pics, mainly of Marvin.

When Luke passed away (15yrs) his mum asked if Mike would mind if Luke took one of their pics with him. On his coffin at the service were huge Marvin slipper. I know Mike was humbled by the requested and shattered at losing his cousin.

I still have one of Mikes earlier paintings of Marvin at the beach house.

KABOOM Earthlings........Its 42C here....hot damn hot.

Kathy - Love the way Tavian's thinking works. You will be cared for, it will be nice home and he won't be far...love it.

Colleen - Yep even those who might know better open their mouths wide to place their foot squarely in their mouths....

Tired and scritchy today. Can't seem to settle. Might be the heat, might be the distance to my ocean home....

[ericasmom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwo8amOULkw&NR=1

Trudi, I know that Jon and his friends drew many of their favorite cartoons too. Marvin was BIG! I know that Mike's cousin must love him dearly for spending time with him while he was ill. Those two angels hanging out together, helping other young ones adjust. Thank you Boys.

I know the ocean is calling you Trudi, each wave in and out is a miracle that you long to be near. You'll be back soon Dear.

Good night all, sweet visits from your Dearests

[aim630]

Finally the kids are asleep, after a little scare. Lucas (4 yrs old) had never spent the night here before, he is really a mommy's boy. He is also quite the loud child, I don't think he knows what an "indoor" voice is. He had to have a bath, and we had some good discussions while he was in there. He loves the water. He also told me, quite randomly, that he really likes Spongebob. That made me laugh, thinking about the discussions here. (I cannot stand to watch a full episode of that show!). Anyway, about 11 PM, Jeff leaves to go take pictures of a fire (he takes pictures for the local newspaper). Katie is trying to get the kids calmed down enough to go to sleep in her room, and I am dozing on the couch, when she tells me Lucas is coughing & asks if we have anything for him to take. Of course we have no medication in the house for children under 12. I know Lucas has asthma, and sometimes has problems with it, although he doesn't use an inhaler regularly, and did not have it with him. (I have the same problem-one or 2 asthma attacks a year, only when my allergies get really bad. I ran to the store looking for allergy medication or cough syrup, and had trouble finding some for children under 6. I get back & Lucas is sound asleep. So I call his mother who tells me not to worry, he coughs every night before he goes to sleep. Of course, I should have called her before I went to the store. I think she should send along his inhaler just in case though. I know the panic I feel when I can't quit coughing, and can't catch my breath.

Carol-glad you had such wonderful experiences with your children when they were younger. I'm also glad Ralph is doing so well losing weight. Hopefully the lesions are nothing more than some old scars. I have restarted my diet for the 4th time in the last 4 yrs (I need to lose about 50 lbs). This past year I haven't really cared at all. I need to exercise, but have no energy to do so. Of course I know if I would just go, I would feel better, and be glad that I did, but just to get off the couch requires so much energy.

Dee-glad your presentations went well. I'm sure Eri's was there with you the whole time, cheering you on.

Susannah-I'm glad you had some nicer weather & was able to enjoy some time outside with the kids. I understand about wanting to send Mariah's friend home after she spent most of the day with you. I always felt a little relieved after the kids' friends went home after a long day. It takes a lot of energy, and I felt like that BEFORE Ashley died, so of course it would be hard now.

Well, after midnight, and I'm sure the kids will be up early.

Goodnight

Amy/Ashley's mom