Loss of an Adult Child

[ericasmom]

Betty, you are always supportive Dear, never feel that you are not. I did not write it big nor loud and only just started telling about it the other day. Thanks for your good wishes and your words about your friend in similar surgery...good to hear. Really good. thanks, oh I saw that NYC started garbage removal today after the big snow shut things down, how nice for you all. Did you walk in Central Park?

The song you posted Sus is one that I woke to in a hotel room in NYC a month after Erica died. I lay there napping after being lost in Central Park for two hours, and when I woke John had that playing on the cd player. I wept myself awake. Hauntingly gorgeous song.

Lor, thanks Dear, I will try to be a very tough cookie...Kath, thanks too, I will miss the kids like crazy.

Carol, what spirit-filled memories you share here tonight. I fully understand the knowing, some silent agreement that was made without your input except for taht knowing. wow how strong your story is, touching my heart deeply, thanks for telling us. I can see you in the car with the window rolled down on Guam, taking in the brint of what was passing through you. Oh my.

[ericasmom]

thanks Karen, we have two c-sections in common, first one emergency as well. Before that, appendectomy adn laperoscopy, and a few other fun things. Yes, I get jittery. thanks for helping me out with tthe thoughts of being fine. Love the comment about the custodian. Teaching hospital?

dee

[kmb22]

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[mikesmum]

Michelle, being that you too are from the land downunder there are a number of different foods that will from time to time be discussed here. Don't worry, all will be explained. I remember asking about gizzards (no I kid you not).

Snickerdoodles here are made by the Beechworth Bakery and are shortcrust pastry filled with rasberries or blueberries on a custard bed. Yuummmyyyy.

[

Reading through the post my mind took me back to Micheals birth. It was winter and we lived in a country town away from any family.

I had been sick for 7 of the 9 months and was just feeling stronger when I went into labour. Even with a nursing background I had no idea what was happening. This incredible urge to go potty was apparently the stage where you 'push'. Who knew. My husband at the time had gone home after about 6 hours of labour to get some rest. On the way he rolled our car.

He was in emergency when it came time for Mike to be born. I remember him asking if 'now would be a good time to tell me he had wrecked the car'.....Duhhhh nope.

Micheal Shane was born at 10am on June 4th 1975. He had a shock of dark hair and the calmest most peaceful look on his face. I remember later that day laying him on my bed in what was a sun room in the local hospital and just staring at him. I was totally taken in by this child, so small who would now rely on me for his very survival on a day to day basis......SHITE!!! Scary stuff.

Am home after seeing the ex in hospital. The surgeon who originally performed his surgery back in 1996 came to see him. Quote of the year "did you know that if you have a shunt you're not supposed to drink?" No **** sherlock....something we were told way back in 96.

Tired as tonight, Mal is taking me out to dinner and then back to the ocean tomorrow.....I need it, he does too.

Peace out....Trudi

[mikesmomrs]

Trudi: Loved your re-memories of the day Micheal was born...well, except for the rollover part! Watching the beauty of your child before you...thank you for sharing. Have a good trip back to the ocean...take a few steps through the warm sand for me. As for others here, I know that this month is a difficult one for you...know that you are being held close and with much love and prayers as you make your way through the days. Micheal is with you, but you know that.

love to you, dear friend,

Carol mikesmomrs

[mikesmomrs]

By the way, to all of you football fans out there...I love that you are enjoying the season, but all I can say for myself is "53 days til spring training starts, and 94 days til opening day at Fenway Park!!!!" YAY!!!

carol mikesmomrs

[ericasmom]

should of got up two or so hours ago, maybe 3, when my brain just would not let me be...too many thoughts rolling around in that old cavernous place for sleep to be very long or deep. Oh well. So no coffee or food adn I am not having surgery until 12:00. Of course I am already headachy as I want coffee and have been awake for several hours. Ok, so I am fine, just had to complain.

Trudi, I sure do get laying there looking into the eyes of that young new person, the amazing shift inside a new parent, as though all that we thought was important prior tothat moment moves over under a new heading. All things shift. And the shift is forever like the love and worry and devotion.

Go back to the pretty beaches that have given you so much. Say hi for me.

love ya

[Guest msnher]

Dee - almost 8am here....I'm thinking you are either on your way to the hospital right now or getting ready to go. Prayers, energy and light.

Carol - I read your post about putting Michael in kindergarten, your pregnancy, and his nine lives (wow) last night. I was so touched by your words I was unable to comment then. I re-read it again this morning. I am blessed to know you dear lady...even if I only know you through cyber space.

Karen - You are a woman after my own heart! So, did the custodian check you? LOL

Trudi - I laughed out loud when you said you asked about gizzards "(no, I kid you not)" . I would love to see the expressions on yours and Michelle's face over that one. Australian snickerdoodles look yummy...We call those shortcakes....mostly with strawberries. You tell the stories of your ex with equal humor. Do I sense a bit of compassion for his idiocy, though?

I'm going to tell you all something I've never told another human being in my whole life...right here in the privacy of the internet. I think, I'm pretty sure, actually, that the obgyn I had with Stephanie did some "hanky panky" to me during one of my check ups. In Salt Lake City Utah. I was a staunch Mormon then and wore their temple garments. Even with the abusive history of my childhood, I was still quite naive'. I was just 22 yrs old. I was 8 mnths pregnant. The doctor wanted to do a full exam so they asked me to completely disrobe. Usually, I was allowed to leave my temple underwear on, but not this time. The doc came in alone and shut the door and checked my breasts. His hands were cold, so they (my breats) responded the way they do when warm meets cold...he made an inappropriate comment, but, I didn't know what to say. He then, dimmed the lights. Seriously. And, did the vaginal check. It took longer. It hurt. I couldn't see his head. I had a horrible feeling and finally asked him what he was doing. He said, "There all done." His hair was a little messed up when his head rose above my swollen belly.

That has haunted me for all these years. I'm not saying he did do anything. I just think he did. The doctor who delivered Amanda..in Vegas..always had a nurse present when he did his vaginal checks. Same with my last two babies. Same with my yearly exams. But, not that one time.

I've often wondered if that is what happened to my Stephanie. If that was the energy that attached itself to her before she was ever born. Why her biological father (the biological father of all four of my children) singled her out and molested her. If that was the reason almost all the toys she ever received for her birthday and/or Christmas were broken. There was always something wrong with her toys when she would take them out of the package.

Another doctor was on call when it was time to deliver Stephanie and that doctor showed up drunk. Seriously. Salt Lake...and the doc is drunk. He yells at me while I'm in labor to "calm down". I kept getting charlie horses in my legs while I was in labor. I tore horribly with Stephanie and the doctor winked at my then husband and said he was going to do him a favor as his stitched me back up. Yep, a little too tight.

The nurses in the hospital were great, though. Knowing how sick Amanda was when she was born and that I didn't get to hold her for the first time until she was four days old, and that was for a total of two minutes, the nurses with Stephanie allowed me to keep her in bed with me all night, that first night. I just stared at her.

Well, there's my great confession. With everything I've ever been through (and you all know it's been a lot) that experience is the one that hangs in the shadows of my mind. Wondering. Always wondering..."Did he....?" I think he did.

Susannah//Stephanie's mom

[Crystal16]

Carol- I love Fenway Park, I enjoy watching the Red Sox play. One good thing about SW Florida is I get to watch them during spring training down here in Fort Myers, Florida.

[Crystal16]

Dee- Prayers of quick healing for you.

[lostwoher]

Yes, unfortunately the Bears lost to the Packers . Its ok though because they are still in the playoffs with home field advantage. Go BEARS!

Happy New Year Indigos

[shorty16]

Hello to my fellow indigos,

Back at it for the second day and I must say, I am much more relaxed. Holidays are finally over.

YEAH, the Packers won. SO SAD, Wisconsin lost the Rose Bowl, but TCU is a great team.

Snickerdoodles are my husbands favorite cookie.

Michelle - Another Aussie - Great - If you are anything like Trudi, you will fit in here just fine. Trudi is a crazy as the rest of us.

To all my friends - I am so glad I have you to talk to. Thanks

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[mikesmomrs]

Lynn and Colleen: So good to see your beautiful angels' faces this morning...happy new year to you also. Colleen, I am glad we have you to talk to, also.

Dee should be going into surgery right about now...she was schedule for noon, but we all know how that goes... Thinking of you, Dee, holding you close.

Sus: Thank you for your words about my post. I am so glad that I wrote these things down, as I know I would forget many parts of them. Actually, the story I originally wrote back when was much longer, but too long for posting here. Many more details about the school, etc., as well as the feelings. But, sharing what I shared was comforting, as always.

Yes, Sus, it sure sounds like your "doctor" was messing around, to say the least. Nowadays, though I am sure it still goes on, but just the comment about the stitching up is enough to hang someone. The guy, I hope, has since been caught and stripped of his license. I am 65 years old, and in all my years, have never had a male doctor examine me without a nurse in the room. It is just not done. I don't know if it comforts you to believe it happened or to believe it didn't happen, though. Considering the terrible abuse you suffered through your growing up years, I am so very sorry that this happened, it certainly seems that your memory of it is abusive to your heart. I am glad you felt you could share, and I hope it helped. Sending love and hugs to you, dear lady, and prayers for your peace of mind.

Trud: I remember the rather lengthy discussion on the "gizzards." That was quite the subject, fun, actually.

Have Damon here again. On the way home, we were talking about how he was going to watch the Ewok movie when we got here, and of course, the subject of Star Wars came up. In the talking, his daddy was mentioned and how much he loved them, too. Damon said "I told Jeremy at school that my daddy died and he asked me if he would grow back again." I asked Damon what his answer was, and he said "Mrs. Ames told him that it doesn't work that way." so we had a little discussion about how Jeremy must not understand about someone dying, and Damon said no, he doesn't. It gave us the opportunity to talk with Damon about the memories we have in our hearts and minds, and I mentioned that because Damon does not have a lot of memories of his daddy because he was so little when his daddy died, that it's important for everyone to share their memories with him so he could know his daddy. He said "Yes, it is." He seemed happy to discuss it, and always seems happy to hear about memories of his daddy. Sarah has done a good job of keeping that memory alive. I am so thankful for that.

Have a nice day, everybody.

love and peace, carol

[mikesmum]

I told Jeremy at school that my daddy died and he asked me if he would grow back again

If only. Carol just hug that little man for me won't you?

Well back to the beach with Mal, his boy, his partner and the little one. They wanted to bring their pup (Kelpie) and I drew the line. So much for the peaceful days with just the two of us.

Melissa is going down on Friday with her tribe, I will be back then. Swapping keys enroute.

Its so hard to know want interactions, events or people impacted on our kids altering forever their lives in many ways, not always in a positive. Just when we think we know, something else will present and throw that theory out of kilter...

Colleen - Glad you are rested and relaxed. As for me being crazy, can't really say it was due to losing Mike. Think I always had a little bit of crazy going on.

Mal's eldest called yesterday to tell us one of his friends was airlifted with a fractured neck. He was motorbike riding and hit a low branch. He will be okay, a halo has been fitted to stablise his neck.....The young, made of titanium with no idea of mortality. Big life lesson for James.

Will walk the dunes at sunset and take you all with Sir MD and myself as we watch the sunset.......

[Guest msnher]

Thinking of Dee. She should be out of surgery by now. Prayers for a speedy recovery.

Colleen - As odd as this may sound, I am completely detached from what that doctor did or didn't do. I can't even remember his name or the name of the doctor that delivered Stephanie.

[westleysmom]

I must have a little crazy going on, I thought I posted this morning, but I guess I didn't.

Dee-Hope things are going well and you will be back with us soon.

Susannah-I'm so sorry about the memory of that so called Dr's exam. I know that you have suffered a lot of abusive situations and that one is particularly bad where someone who is supposed to be a professional doesn't act that way. I hope he lost his license since then too, although it wasn't soon enough to save you from him.

Carol and Trudi-Those memories of when they were born are precious, but hard to revisit sometimes. Westley had a lot of dark hair when he was born, and a knot on the side of his head that the staff told me was my fault for pushing him out too fast. I'm not sure what planet they were on, but I couldn't push him out fast enough when those pains were coming hard and fast. He weighed 8 pounds and 6 ounces and seemed to be twice that as I was pushing him out. 22 years ago this month, how can I remember with such crystal clarity things that happened that day? Oh, but he was beautiful and I was so happy. I never felt as completely satisfied, I don't think, as I did right then. When I knew I had my girl and my boy and I would never have to be pregnant again (hated being pregnant, but strangely, had a completely easy time both times) My sister said the first thing I said to her when she came to the hospital was "Isn't he the most beautiful baby you've ever seen?" Of course, I'm sure I meant to say "just like Amy"! My Grammy used to always say that every old crow thinks her's is the blackest, and I guess that's right.

If missing them could make them grow back, they'd be here now, just like they were never gone. Enjoy the walk Trudi, and your time with Damon, Carol.

Hey Lynn, good to see you. Hope your year is starting off right.

Leah-Hope you're doing okay and we haven't heard from you because you're taking it easy.

Colleen, Crystal, Kathy, Lorri, Betty, Betsy-Take care all, if anybody hears from Dee, be sure and let us all know.

[Guest msnher]

I took the kids to the Boys and Girls club today to work off some of their pent up energy. Much too nasty outside, still. On the way home I let out a big sigh and said "Gosh, I miss your mommy today!" Six yr old Jonathon reminded me how she's right here with us in the car. I told him I know but I miss seeing her and touching her and even arguing with her. Mariah wanted to know why I argued with her mommy. "Because she's just like you and argued with me about everything!" That response brought a huge smile to Mariah's face. She loves to be compared to her mother. Yikes. Maybe I should have picked something else....

[ericasmom]

I amback you all, home andsittingup adn no pain, no nausea...turns out there was no hernia, but a lymph node taken out, sent to be looked at, and my hope is that it is simply an enlarged node for non-cancerous reasons. Doc seems to think it looks normal enough, but just enlarged which he says happens pretty often...biopsy on it will return on Friday, but he said if it was worrisome looking, he would make it faster...so for now i am happy to not be cut too deeply or worked on for more than 45 minutes, rather than 1.5 or 2 hours. The surgery began one hour late as the surgeon had a more involved surgery than orgininally planned. So for now, I am sitting up adn drinking the coffee that I missed so.We are watching the news adn my son came by to see me. All is well.

Love and thanks for so many kind and uplifting thoughts.

[Bensmummy]

Wonderful to hear your home and okay. Take it easy. smiles Michelle

[daveydow1]

Betty----Oh how worrisome kids can be when they enjoy 'living on the edge'...right?? My David was definitely not one

to live on the edge.....a shy, subdued, and careful person.....very introspective...... My duaghter, Becky, was

the opposite, and I worried about her a lot.....always after the thrill.....concerts, mosh pits, loads of friends etc. She

(being 6 yrs. younger than Dave) often said Dave was 'boring'.....She'd say to him....."Live a little...don't be so boring".

They traveled in different social circles, of course. She was the livewire.....No wonder I got gray hair . Glad that the

little squirrel is doing ok, and I bet she just LOVED that you offered her the nuts......especially in the cold weather.

Dee-----I'm glad to hear that your surgery was not as long as originally anticipated., and glad that you are now home, and resting

comfortably. Prayers that the lymph node will prove to be nothing more that just enlarged. Take care......rest.

Susannah-----Thanks for the lines from the song "Arms of the Angel".....I, too, love the song. I tried to put it on my Lisa's

memorial site, but could not do it as the site could only upload music from the MP3 format. (I only had the song ripped from a CD

to my computer)......Guess I'll have to get with it and buy an iPod sometime. The song certainly is achingly beautiful.

Carol----Thanks for your post about Mike's birth and first day of school. It is a very touching story......how you had the vision that

he would go on to eternity before you.....yet you had a sense of calmess & peace. It is plain to see that you loved, loved , loved that

tiny baby boy when he first came into this world. He is surely smiling down with love too.

Karen-----I am sorry for your loss of your brother. I don't think I remember reading your post, telling about this tragedy......there were

times when I would take a break and not be on BI for awhile. Yes, addiction is such a terrible thing in this world. If only we could

make it go away for all who are afflicted......along with terrible diseases. But, I guess that is not in our power to do so. Peace, friend.

Trudi-----Oh,....I had to laugh at your story about when your dear Mike was born, and your fright at the thought of taking care of that precious

little bundle who was totally dependent on you. Although Becky (my youngest, and 5th child) was not my first, but my last child,.....I was

more afraid of taking care of her than the others. She was 9 weeks premature, and spent 5 mo. in NICU due to surgeries to put her

bowels back inside where they belonged. She was sent home with a stoma (opening) on her side (for feeding in case the main bowels

would not function).......I was not a nurse at that time, and the thought of caring for her scared me to death. However.....the nurses at

the hospital helped me.....giving instructions etc. and I did well, and so did she. She's always been fairly healthy....thank God. I guess

those sweet little bundles are stronger than we thought, Huh ??

Lynn----Nice to see sweet Kayla's smile.

PEACE AND TRANQUILITY TO ALL INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[lolynbo]

DEE SO GLAD IT WENT WELL AND IM SURE THE BIOPSY WILL BE FINE...SO IF YOUR NOT HURTN PASS THE DRUGS TO OKLAHOMA..I NEED EM...LOL

FOUND OUT A 15 YR OLD GIRL DIED...SHE WAS HUFFN DUST IN A CAN (AIR IN A CAN TYPE STUFF) AND IT FROZE HER LUNGS...I JUST DONT NO WHAT KIDS ARE THINKIN..IT IS SO SCARRY...PRAYERS FOR THIS NEW JOURNEY THEY AE NOW ON...HER NAME IS SAMANTHA...

[ModKonnie]

I amback you all, home andsittingup adn no pain, no nausea...turns out there was no hernia, but a lymph node taken out, sent to be looked at, and my hope is that it is simply an enlarged node for non-cancerous reasons. Doc seems to think it looks normal enough, but just enlarged which he says happens pretty often...biopsy on it will return on Friday, but he said if it was worrisome looking, he would make it faster...so for now i am happy to not be cut too deeply or worked on for more than 45 minutes, rather than 1.5 or 2 hours. The surgery began one hour late as the surgeon had a more involved surgery than orgininally planned. So for now, I am sitting up adn drinking the coffee that I missed so.We are watching the news adn my son came by to see me. All is well.

Love and thanks for so many kind and uplifting thoughts.

Hi Dee,

I will be thinking about you as you wait for the results. I am glad you're surgery was less involved than anticipated. The one thing I can't do without in the mornings is my coffee. Glad you got to get a cup finally!

ModKonnie

[aim630]

Trying to catch up after working late the last couple of days.

Dee-Glad to hear you're home & resting & the surgery did not take as long as anticipated. Praying the lymph node is just enlarged, and nothing more serious.

Susannah-You've been through so much , and yet you manage to stay strong & keep a sense of humor. How cute that Mariah was so proud to be compared to her mother. Although I know it's a lot of hard work for you, I'm glad you have her kids to enjoy, and to remind you of Stephanie.

Carol-Thanks for sharing your stories of Mike. I was always scared something would happen to Ashley, although I never dreamed it would be the flu. Your faith and strength amazes me. I can't wait for the Indians opening day. Katie & I have tickets. Although they are horrible, just being at the game is exciting.

Michelle-I'm glad you found us here. My 23 yr old daughter Ashley died last February after complications of pneumonia, mono & H1N1. Although this is not a club any one of us wanted to join, at least we can talk to each other, and feel like someone understands.

Trudi-Your version of snickerdoodles is completely different than ours! It sounds delicious though. Hope you enjoy your time at the beach with Muttley. I love the ocean, and would gladly spend all my time there. Unfortunately, we live about 8 hrs away from the Atlantic, so I very rarely get there.

Worrying about my mom, as she cashed in my dad's life insurance to help her boyfriend buy a house. Her name is nowhere on the deed, so if something happens, she is completely out of luck. She was under the assumption he would have her name added, but today he told her it can't be done. She asked what if something happened to him & he said she better get a lawyer. We tried to tell her ahead of time this was not a good idea, but she did not want to listen. They've only lived together about 3 wks, and they're already having problems. My dad left her that money so she could survive after he died, not so she could spend it on some other guy. I just don't get it. He expects her to pay half the living expenses. She had a heart attack 10 yrs ago, and had severe nerve damage in her leg, so it is hard for her to get around. She had a carload of stuff from her old house & asked him to help her bring it in. He told her it was her stuff, bring it in herself. I tried to accept him & never had anything against him, but it's hard to see her treated this way, especially after my dad completely worshipped her.

Goodnight to all,

Amy/Ashley's mom

[summergirl]

Carol - thank you so much for posting the link to the song by Rascal Flatts - it just takes my breath away and I hope everyone here takes a moment to listen to it...your so sweet.

Dee - so glad things went better than expected....now rest, drink your coffee and good thoughts...

Trudi - love your cherished memories you share.....thinking of you as your summer is almost there (??) and you and Mr. Muttley enjoy your beach walks.....am going with you

What a day today - first I fell at work, yes I am clumsy, skinned up my knee, wrist and a bit sore but at least did not hit my face and knock out teeth !! Then I was working on laying the tile in the bathroom and Barry came in and stepped on my glasses and BROKE them - yikes - I am blind as a bat....glued them together until I can get to eye doctor tomorrow. Then I got a big splinter in my finger and had to dig it out with a needle.....so ENOUGH is ENOUGH already...I mean really - all this in one day....

I am a very tired woman tonight and I apologize again for not keeping up with everyone....hopefully one day things will get a bit quieter and I can have a whole day in the chair to just be....

Peace, strength and much love to all my BI family....Kathy

Gonna try to post a pic of my hubby at his new size 38 from a 52....hope it posts....

[westleysmom]

Dee-Get well soon! Hopefully the lymph node is just enlarged as the dr mentioned and you will be back in school soon and getting ready for your writing workshop thing. Rest well and have pink dreams of Eri.

Kathy-Good grief! Just go to bed! that's what I do when it seems to be falling apart on me and I'm afraid I'm going to really get hurt (or hurt somebody)

Amy-I'm sorry that your mother has apparently made a bad judgement of this guy's character and hope that something can be salvaged.

This cold is really bad and I'm heading to bed. Sleep well all and have sweet dreams of when we see them again.

[ericasmom]

Using my school laptop and lost the post I was just beginning. I just am thanking you guys again and still for your continued thoughts and care. Modkonnie, thanks so much.

Amy, I am so sad for what you must be feeling about your Momma's situation. It sounds like this man has a motive and that he is very calculated and took advantage of your Mum. I wonder if ther is anything that can be done at this point, a paper trail showing the withdrawl of the money and some written declaration that your Mom thought that she was going to be on the deed adn that he told her it could not be done. Try to put dates on all of these, get a lawyer. Have his background checked too if you can, could be he preys on women like your Mom.

I would document everything at this point.

Yes Trud, your snickerdoodles look adn sound like fruit tarts to me. YUMMY indeed.

Kathy,go rest, nothing one can do to repair a day like this, only let it go. Hope you get glasses tomorrow adn that your body is not injured from your fall. Peace.

[kmb22]

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[Guest msnher]

Dee - I'm not sure whether to be relieved that you didn't have a hernia or worried that they removed a lymph node. Did it hurt just as bad? Is the recovery time just as long? Perhaps you should have told the doctor that he should hurry the test results just the same because there is this crazy woman on your grief support site who can't handle the stress of waiting until Friday. Never mind. Just give me his name and number and I'll tell him myself.

Rhonda - Dear Sweet Friend! You are safe in the center of my heart as you approach the first birthday without your beautiful, albeit big, son. 8 lbs 6 oz. My Curtis weighed the same. 23 inches long. Easiest delivery I had. I hope you'll post a picture of your Westley as a baby. The time frame you're in right now was the most difficult for me, thus far. That first birthday without our angels brings back so many beautiful memories of that first birthday with them. Please, tell us more about your Westley as a baby...as a child...if you're up to posting.

About the humor - I love to laugh.....so did my mother.....so did Stephanie...there's always something humorous in most situations. Stephanie's death wasn't funny. But, my sister and her husband getting lost everytime they turned around at the funeral was. Gosh, we even put them behind us after the funeral and several other cars behind them so they wouldn't get lost leaving the church and my brother in law decided to go a different direction. My sister was so distraught when they finally found their way to our house (again) an hour later she was in tears. I kept laughing. "It's not funny!" She said. "Well, it really is." I told her. "Did you think you knew a short cut?" I said between giggles..."Did you think maybe the rest of us didn't know where we were going?"

That night we found out about one of Stephanie's boyfriends. We didn't know there were two. That wasn't funny either. But, right after one of Stephanie's friends took the time to tell me about one of the boyfriends "Satan's sperm" as he referred to him.....my youngest daughter, Jennifer escorted the other boyfriend out from the church to meet me. Now neither Jennifer nor I knew there were two boyfriends. Jennifer didn't know I was thinking this boyfriend was "Satan's sperm"...she just felt sorry for him because he kept crying.........okay...maybe that's not funny either..........but, the look on Jennifer's face when I ripped into that boyfriend as soon as she said, "Mom I have someone I want you to meet" is. Yep. That's funny. I was chest to chest with this man, ready to throw the first punch. Now, I'm barely 5'2" and weighed about 108 lbs then....I'm 130 now....but, my size never fooled anyone. Be afraid. Be very afraid. please.

Anway....you would have to have my sense of humor to get it...but the look on her face was pretty damn funny.

Now, I don't think this is funny...but, Stephanie would have found it hilarious. I'm in the ER, sitting in a chair, laying my head on her arm, while I dial my husband to tell her she died. "She's gone" Is all I can get out. "Where'd she go?" He asks. Okay.........that's not funny at all. I can't even finish telling it. Damn! Now I'm crying!

Damn! Damn! Damn!

Some things just aren't funny.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[mikesmomrs]

Dee: After two full days with Damon, I have just enough left in my tank to come on and say that I am so glad all went well, and things weren't as involved as originally thought. Holding you close in prayer and thought til you find out about the node. I am banking on what the doctor said, though, that most are not to worry about. Is our Garden Gnome taking care of you tenderly? Give him a hug from me.

Rhonda: I hope you are feeling better soon...thinking of and sending strong thoughts of good energy to you. thank you for sharing the memories of Westley's first days on this earth...all of those memories are true treasures, aren't they.

Kathy: Wow, Barry looks too good...you'll have to keep him on a short chain now. So sorry about your terrible day...may the sunrise bring comfort to you and a smoother road for tomorrow

Trud: Enjoy your walks in the sand...is Sir MD all better?

Betty: I hope you are enjoying your visit with your sister. Glad to hear your squirrel is doing okay. He has a good caretaker.

.

Lorri: Sorry to hear about the 15 year old girl...such a sad, sad thing, I jsut wish we could get it through to these kids that they are NOT invincible. I will keep her parents in my prayers. I hope you didn't wear yourself out at Kourtney's Kloset...glad you got so many boy things.

Sus: I was glad to hear that Amanda is doing well...Rochester is just about 15 miles from here...we go through it on the way to Cathi's house. I do agree with her, it is warmer here than where you are. Any chance you might be coming out to see her?

Betsy: Thinking of you..hope all is well.

Amy: this guy needs to meet up with a leg-breaker. Dang! Like Karen said, there is the chance he's done this before...you hear about it all the time. Maybe it warrants checking out. I am so glad you have tickets for the opening game...I am still trying for ours. I know it is difficult to be there, but likely Ashley is right there by your side. Even after four summers, it still takes holding my breath to walk into that park the first day of the year. Mike and I sat just about everywhere in that park, so at first it was that "I see him everywhere," and many tears. Now it is "I see him everywhere," and smiles that reach in and warm my heart for the memories. Sometimes it still catches me off guard, but I know he has my back. Having Cathi with me is also a huge thing for me, as well. Her enthusiasm matches his, so it is a continuation of a wonderful ritual that HE started. Last year, we sat down beside a guy who looked exactly like Mike...I almost fainted! I kept looking at him, and finally we had to speak and tell him why we were looking at him. When we showed him Mike's picture, his wife turned pale...she couldn't believe it either. I finally settled down and considered it a gift...it was the only way I could get through it. Had that happened the first year, I likely would have just out and out fainted.

Karen: So sorry to hear about your brother...addiction is so very cruel, and the consequences so devastating.

Sherry: "loved, loved, loved that tiny baby boy when he first came into this world." yes, oh yes, truly loved him, but "tiny?" no...actually he was 1/2 ounce short of 12 lbs and it took three days of being induced to finally push him out into the world. We had waited for him for a long time...there is 8 years between him and his sister, Cathi. But yes, he was loved, and wound every one of us around his finger from the get-go. I don't know how I would have handled what you went through with Becky...I guess like everything else, one day at a time, but it must have been a trying time for you and your hubby. I am so glad everything turned out well...perhaps all that early tender care wound her up for the rest of her life

Well, I guess I had more in the tank than I thought...I guess Damon must have refreshed me instead of wearing me out. We didn't go outside...it was too cold, so that is likely why I was able to handle it. When we go outside, he is a live wire and plays every second he's out there. Now, if I could just pull some energy together to take down this tree....

thinking of you all...Crystal, Leah, Colleen, Marcia, Bonnie, and everyone I haven't mentioned...you are all in my heart, always.

take care everyone, and though it's late, I am still wishing you all a good night.

love and peace, carol mikesmomrs

[Guest msnher]

I got trapped in grief for a moment. I forgot to even mention to Kathy that I hope you are okay. I agree with Rhonda. Go to bed...

Carol - We are planning a trip to Rochester this spring or summer. I am really missing her, though, and might have to come sooner.

Oh, Indigo's. Maybe I've finally, truly gone insane. I feel like it tonight. I am numb but the squirrel cage of my mind is spinning 100 fold.

The night Stephanie died Gary and I embraced in the kitchen, after everyone had gone home. "Why now?" I voiced. "Because it's the only way she could get any closer to Him." Gary said.

Why not me? Because I still have work to do. I suppose.

At the rate I'm going I may live to be 120. Not good news.....

[Guest msnher]

A 12 pound baby!? Oh my!

[mikesmomrs]

yes, "oh my!" He was beautiful, though, and so very easy to take care of. He didn't fit into the outfit I had brought to the hospital with me...when we were leaving the hospital, the doctor said that I should treat him like a baby who is three months old..."he is going to be hungry," he said, and he suggested I put a tiny bit of baby cereal in his nighttime feeding. Mike loved it, and slept through the night the second night we were home. (the first night was a nightmare, as i was breast feeding and had developed an infection, couldn't feed...arrrrggghhh!)

Christening Day:

Sus, regarding the racing thoughts...I am pretty sure that you have said you've seen a therapist in the past...have they ever told you about the "open back door" trick? There are actually two different types, but the open back door worked best for me. The first one my therapist told me about was the STOP sign. When I first start thinking of something that makes me crazy, I picture myself holding up a huge red stop sign, and tell all the thoughts to STOP. (I know, it sounds crazy, but sometimes it works.) The one that worked better for me, I usually used when I couldn't get to sleep because I couldn't stop all the thoughts racing through my head...I pictured that I had an open door in the back of my skull, and just let the thoughts race on through my head. That sounds crazy too, and it didn't always work, but it worked enough taht I got some sleep. Of course, this was "before." We all know what it is like now, and those "tricks" just don't seem strong enough. You might try it, though, if you haven't before.

You do have a good sense of humor, Susannah...that carries us halfway through many battles.

love to you,

carol mikesmomrs

[Guest msnher]

Bless you, Carol! I will try the stop sign. I am a visual person, so that will help a lot.

Michael was a baby to be cuddled and kissed and loved, no doubt. He is gorgeous. He had that same baby face throughout his life, did he not?

Much love to you, too.

I am going to wipe the tears and give myself a break from my whipping stick now and try to get some rest. It is much later for you right now. Are you having a hard time sleeping, too?

Oh....I can see Mike's boys in his face through his baby picture. How is his Sarah doing? Sometimes I get so focused on just the moms that I forget others have lost, too.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[mikesmomrs]

I hope the suggestions work.

Yes, he didn't change a lot, even as an adult. He always complained his chin wasn't strong enough and that's why he grew the beard.

Sarah is doing really well...she is so glad that she went to college and got some education, as it has allowed her to get so much better a job...she works in a doctor's office for the York Hospital system. She is so good with Damon...and so devoted to him. And as you know, he believes "she is nicer than real life, and I love her."

I never sleep, Sus. always up at night. family traits.

Go to bed...you've kiddies to get up to...try the system...don't let it fail you.

love to you, carol

[Guest msnher]

Sherry - I bought the song from itunes (I think $1.99) It downloaded into my itunes library. From there I copied it to my desktop. From there to Steph's memorial site. It's not on there now...Now I have "I will remember you" by Sarah Mclachlan and "I can only imagine" by Mercy.

I change her songs every once in a while according to my mood. It's the only thing I can really update on her site, now. There are no new pictures, no new memories.

[ericasmom]

Morning all. I slept on the couch last evening and let the tv rock me to sleep. I never do this as we don ot have tv in the bedroom. I did not sleep past 4:30 however but pretty good sleep till then. So I am drinking coffee, icepack on the old groin, some ache but not bad and I have not even had a motrin, and have not gone to pain meds prescribed. Lorri, sorry, can't send you the meds, ha ha. How is Kourtney's Kloset doing? I saw someone post somethng about it, sounds like you are busy with it. Sorry about the huffing death. When I was growing up I hung out with some folks that huffed, it was not my cup of tea. It is so sad, my thoughts with them.

Sus, being the anxious woman I am and not feeling horribly scared right now has everything to do with the words the doctor said and being married to Mr. John. He is very good at taking care of my worries, he is also able to remind me of things when my worry level goes too high. So, yes Carol, He is taking tender care of me, in fact coming to see if I want more coffee as I type.

Love to all,

dee

[westleysmom]

Dee-Glad you got some rest and are able to drink coffee, delivered by your sweetie. That makes it even better, if that's possible.

Carol-Such a sweet picture of Mike. I don't know how to scan pictures except in theory, so I haven't any I can post here of Westley as a baby, but I'll try someday. I just can't bring myself to actually look through them to even start trying right now.

I went to the funeral home yesterday afternoon, one of Westley's friend's mother passed away. She was only 50 years old and had breast cancer. I think she was sick even before Westley died, but can't remember exactly. They lived close to the house and I had spoken with her once or twice on the phone, when the boys were giving us trouble once, but we never met. She was a police officer, and so was her husband, Westley's friend's stepfather. Most of Westley's friends were there, it was good to see them. On the other hand, it is still kind of hard to see them going on with their lives when he is not. Matt, the boy whose mother died, works at the cemetery where she is being buried and had helped prepare the grave. He didn't have to, but he wanted to. They are not bad boys, but before Westley died, they stayed in trouble a lot, and I don't know if any of them were working then. He was the only one that had a full-time job and he had a hard time seeing that he needed to get in bed earlier because he had to get up and get to work in the mornings, while they did not. Most of them were slightly younger than him and just getting out of high school, if they graduated at all. Some are going back to get their GED, and the friend that was in jail at the time of his death is going to take his test on January 13, Westley's angel date. He said when he gets done, he's going to the cemetery. I hope he does pass it, I hope they all do well and get their lives on track. But it is so hard sometimes too. I'm sure you all understand.

We are getting a little better with the cold, I can even breathe out of my nose sometimes. And being sick has kept me from crying as much as I normally do because it makes my head stop up so bad that I have concentrated on not doing it. But still sneezing and coughing. I probably shouldn't have gone to the funeral home and I tried to stay away from people's faces. But I hated not to go and let his friend's know that I still remember them. They said that several of them were at the cemetery on New Year's eve, as I suspected from the coke bottles and cigarette butts when I went Sunday that I cleaned up. I told them I don't mind, as long as they're still remembering him. I'm sure as time goes by, they may not, but that's normal, isn't it? But Mama's never forget what was lost.

[Guest msnher]

We're supposed to get all the way up to 30 today, but the wind is already howling something fierce. I bought the kids new snow suits, gloves and boots yesterday so they could attack the huge snow drift in the alley today. The wind might put a wrench in the works.

I'm glad you were able to get some rest last night Dee. Your hubby sure does take good care of you.

Rhonda, it was very nice of you to attend the funeral of Westley's friend's mother. It is so comforting to know their friends still think of our angels.

Kathy I hope your day is a bit safer and less eventful than yesterday!

[shorty16]

Indigos

When Brian died, the Waukesha County Victims Unit sent us a book entitled "When There Are No Words." This book was about 3 huffing deaths. 3 boys died from this: 2 brothers and an only child. The book rocked me to my core. This loss is as senseless as Brian's.

Kathy, when you said "I do not know what these kids are thinking" or something like that. I have asked myself that question about 10 times a day for 2.5 years now. These is no answer.

I still have the book if someone wants to read it. I was drawn to it because of the senseless nature the boys died. I could relate.

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[ericasmom]

Yes Sus, I am a lucky woman with this nice husband. I just woke from a nap and boy, that felt good. Now up and talking to you guys with a fresh cup of coffee adn a tall glass of water. The sun is shining here which is nice, though the clouds are moving in with a trace amount of snow supposed to whiten the lawns some. For the kids sake with a substitute who I know loves playing in snow, I wish it would dump 6 or so inches, but it isn't going to. However the sub I requested is having a great time with my students and happily, the sub is Colin who went to school at Lincoln along with Erica, and he sang at her funeral and played the guitar. So to have Colin there withthe kids is so nice. I love this Boy/Man. So cute.

Rhonda the funeral you attended sounds like a very sad event but so glad you made. I am sure that it made and will make a difference to Westley's good buddy whose Mom it was. I bet that all of Westley's friends were touched by your being there, knowing full well that you get what everyone there is going through. I think your comment about the boys moving on is something that we all have wroried about, will our child be remembered. I sit her at 7.5 years out, which astounds me, and I can tell you that Eri's friends do remember her both in word and heart. I hear from them less, they are spread out all over the earth, and they are all working now and some have children, but they will not forget the girl that is permanently in their hearts. I remember thinking, even while ERi still lay in the hospital knowing she was going to die, that at her 10th reunion from high school, there will be that moemnt when they read who is no longer here, her name will be read and I ached knowing that. I thought some folks will say "WHO?" not knowing who she was or remembering that she died. But the folks that mattered the most to Eri, and vice versa, will always remember. That young man who is going to go take that test on Westley's date wants to go visit your Son's grave after the test, the Boy who inspired and still is inspiring him. I pray he passes his test, what a great way to remember the day in a positive way for him. I don't think that West will be forgotten, I just don't. I think back to my first young person loss, his name was Kenny Credit, he and I kissed some in freshman year at a party. we were buddies from then on though never hung out in the same circles. He died on his motorcycle when he was 18. I remember Kenny, I remember going to the box that held his body adn seeing his handsome rugged face and thinking how this was probably the first time he was ever still. He was probably a classic ADHD kid. I am 54 years old, I remember. Our Children will be remembered differently by different people, but they will be remembered.

Caroll, that is one gorgeous Kid and HUGE. How dear.

[ericasmom]

Col, we wrote at the same time, so just want to acknowledge that the huffing booklet is a scary testament as to knowing that kids at that age do not know that life can end. They simply don't think that loss is soemthing in their lives. Peace sweetie, no answers is hard, but true.

[westleysmom]

Thanks Dee, I really do hope that they never forget him and try to live their lives so that their Mamas never know what we know. I think about one of the first of my age to die almost every time I go to the cemetery. At the end of the road, it tees into a state highway, and this boy was also on a motorcycle, I believe, and had been drinking. He just blew through the stop sign and hit the embankment on the other side of the highway. It broke his neck and he may have lived a few days, but not long. His name was Jeff and he was a wild child. I guess we don't ever forget that first loss of young life. But it never makes sense.

Colleen-Two different people bought me that book right after Westley died and I sent one copy to my friend Susan. It really was a heartbreaking story, but had a lot of useful information that helped me especially through the dark days before I found you all here at BI. Senseless death, is there any other kind? I'm not sure that there is.

[lolynbo]

OMGOSH WE WERE SOOOO BIZZY YESTERDAY AT KOURTNEYS KLOSET...WHEN I ARRIVED AT 930 THERE WAS AT LEAST 25 BLACK TRASH BAGS FULL OF CLOTHES AND TOYS....WOW WHAT A WELCOME...MOM AND I DID WHAT WE COULD BEFORE WE LEFT AT 2...IDK HOW MY MOM DOES IT SHE HELPS THERE AND THEN WORKS WEEKENDS AT IHOP AT THE AGE OF 68...GOD LOVE HER....

FOUND THIS POEM ON FB..WANTED TO SHARE...LOVE TO ALL

THAT'S WHAT GIVES ME HOPE

Today is the anniversary...

Of my child who has soared

I'm left sad and lonely...

With a broken heart for sure

People can't imagine..

This countdown that I do

Each and every single day...

Since the day I lost you

No birthdays left to celebrate

No stocking at Christmas time

Always one less plate at dinner

Yet someone told me I'm doing fine

I gave a little smile...

Nodded my head like I said yes...

If they only knew the pain inside...

There is no way they could guess

I have learned to hate the calendar...

It just represents the past

Back when I still had you near...

Now emptiness just lasts

I know your in a better place...

(Please let this be true)

Cause I couldn't take another day...

If I thought I'd never again see you

So until that day for me arrives...

I am learning how to cope

Thinking of when I'll see you again...

That's what gives me hope

[ericasmom]

Nice poem Lor.

Wonderful news that the Kloset is doing so well with donations. Give your Mom a hug from me, what a good heart she has.

Love ya,

dee

[ericasmom]

just checking that I can add photos from my school laptop.

[Crystal16]

I just found out I have surgery scheduled for February 1st! I have three very large fibroids that need to be removed. I'm not looking forward to being cut open. I would have to be honest that part of me is okay If I dont wake from my surgery then I would be with Ashlee...

[daveydow1]

Karen----Thanks for the tip. I guess I am so dumb about all the electronic stuff...downloading music...etc. I don't have an

MP3 yet,.....so I am assuming that the methods you suggested won't do me any good until I get one. Am I correct ??

Carol-----Goodness !!! A 12 lb. baby......ouch!! In his pic, he looks so very nice and well proportioned, and as the Dr.

said.....something like a 3 mo.-old baby in size. My Becky weighed only 8 lb. at 5 mo. old. She "swam" in all the newborn

clothes too, because she did not have much baby fat on her. I had to cut clothe diapers in sections & fold to make them

fit. She wore a size "0" shoe at 12 mo. All the while, though, she continued to thrive and gain weight. Since she is

missing several feet of her sm. bowel, the Drs. said she would probably never be a big person. She weighs about 105 now,

and is hale and hearty.....Thank God. Oh,.....I , too, must get busy & take down the Xmas tree. I have taken off all the ornaments etc.

so I at least have made a start. Funny how it's more fun putting the decorations UP, than taking them down.

Dee----So glad to hear that you are recuperating nicely ( and are fairly comfortable too ), The deer pic is so nice. I'm guessing

that you took the pic while on one of your nice walks. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

Sus---It's nice that you change the songs from time to time on Steph's memorial. I'm not too adept with all the technical stuff, so

when I'm able to accomplish something.......it usually stays that way. Dave's memorial has had "Amazing Grace" for over 7 yrs.,

but I do like it.

Rhonda----It was nice of you to go to the funeral of West's friend's mom. I know that can be a real challenge when your grief is so

very new, as you are early on this road. Yes....I hope, too, that West's friends go on to get their GED's and will progress into jobs,

and getting on with their lives in a good way. Sometimes young people get off-track a bit, but their age is in their favor, and they

can still succeed.

Amy-----So sorry to hear about the guy who is taking advantage of your dear mom. He sounds like a real skunk....(sorry), but it doesn't

sound like he has any redeeming qualities to speak of. As someone else said......he has probably done these kinds of dirty tricks

in the past, and feels no one can stop him. I so wish that your mom had listened to you, and got a lawyer before entering into the

deal about the house. I guess the only thing you can do is just be there for her when he is gone......which he probably will be before long.....

the rat. !!!

Lorri----Such a lovely poem....thanks for posting it.

Wishing everyone at BI a nice evening, and a good night's sleep.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[ericasmom]

Crystal, 3 fibroids? Ouch, will they do this as open surgery or laproscopically? I will wish you well ahead of time, but do let us know when as you find out. Ihave found the prayers a welcome energy to be near.

Sherry you and I are similar in the whole tech area. I don't have an mp3 either nor an Ipod, don't want one. I like the radio and my CDs but I suppose I need to learn what is new so that when what I have is outmoded, I will be able to have music. I do hope that radio however, never goes out of fashion. I love listening to music and the personalities of my fav. d-jays. Like friends in the room or the car that you never meet.

John and I took a 4 block slow walk. Slow because that is my only speed right now. It felt good though, fresh air, bird songs, and just some movement.

dee

[lolynbo]

redid my room as yal no, ON TOP OF OUR TV CABINET...I BOUGHT BLAK AND WHITE BOXES (2 SO FAR)...GOING TO GO THRU THE KIDS PICS AND PUT KODYS IN ONE AND KOURTNEYS IN ONE AND SAME FOR KIMMY....GOING TO BE SO HARD TO GO THRU THEM....BUT THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SO FAR...

LOVE THIS PIC

[mikesmomrs]

Dee: So glad you are up and walking--four blocks? So glad you had your sweet Sir John with you.

Sherry: Actually..."he looks so very nice and well proportioned," wasn't so accurate the first 2-3 days. From being in labor for THREE days, he was all squished up, kind of like a bulldog. Thank God he was my third baby...I could take it that his cuteness would be a few days in the making. When people in the hospital heard about him, they would come by to see him, walk in saying things like "where's that future football player" and when they would look into the isolette, they would say "Oh, isn't he..........big!" He was NOT cute...beautiful, of course, but cute, not so much. However, it wasn't but 2-3 days before his little face unfurled into "his eminence." While in the hospital, they did the "first picture" thing...we waited for weeks for the prints, then finally got a card that said "due to circumstances beyond our control, we were unable to produce your picture." When he got older (much older---long after his childhood psyche was set in place) we used to tease him about that. We loved him from day one, the turning cute was just an extra bonus! The funny thing about his being so big was that I had only gained 29 lbs with this pregnancy, and lost 9 of those the month before I had him... I am so glad your sweet Becky wound up being healthy and in fine shape. I'll bet she's a little firecracker!

Rhonda: Yes, it was so very nice of you to go to Westley's friend's mom's funeral...I know that he felt your support and it meant a lot to him. Seeing everyone there was surely a double-edged sword for you, and as others have said, I am sure the friends had some idea of how difficult that was for you. During Mike's last summer, one of my coworkers, whom I was particularly close to, learned that his 5 year old granddaughter had a rare from of childhood cancer, and was not going to live very long. She died less than a month after Mike did, and her funeral was the day that was Mike's first month anniversary. I know they would have understood if I didn't show up...they likely would not have even noticed. But in my heart I knew I had to go; we had worked together for almost ten years. He and I worked a lot of hours together, as we both came in later in the morning and were the last two to leave for the day. I was his "indirect" secretary, so did a lot of work for him. He and his wife and Ralph and I had gone out to dinner many times. I still don't know how I did it. One thing that helped, was that when we were going through the receiving line, everyone in his family, when they saw me, stopped what they were doing, leaned over and hugged me, tears of course, and soft-spoken words of comfort exchanged. I had printed out a beautiful prayer on a small card, sealed it in plastic and handed one to each of them. They all held onto it, almost like it was for support. I knew they were all practicing Catholics, so I felt the prayer was appropriate. They all came over later and thanked me for having come, under the circumstances, and thanked me again for the prayer. It was a time of mutual comfort...a day of sending support to each other in a way never imagined to be necessary by either of us in our "before" world. I know that Westley's friends felt that with you, too, especially the son of the woman who had died. You were gracious to be there for him--he will remember that, likely forever. I wish him well with his GED...may West guide him.

Crystal: Oh my goodness...prayers and hugs to you, dear...please keep us posted. Sending strength and postive energy to you. I do know what you mean about "not waking up" from surgery...when they (mistakenly) told me a couple of summers ago that I had kidney cancer, my first thought was that I would see Mike sooner. Then, of course, reality hit, and the faces of all of my loved ones still here marched before my eyes. Still....

Sus: thanks for keeping me company last night (this morning). Did you ever get to sleep? It will be so nice when you come to see your daughter if we can meet. I anxiously look forward to meeting this spirited, loving, introspective, woman I've been "speaking" with all these months.

Lorri: I love the boxes--very elegant looking. I do have a question for you, though...if you are going to keep pics of each child in 'their own" box, what will you do with those that have two of them or all three in one pic? I've always had that bug me when I am sorting. Having moved around so much as the kids were growing, we finally decided to sort them according to where we were at the time. I loved the poem, also, thanks for sharing. Good for you and your mom, all that work at Kourtney's Kloset. If I lived closer, I would be happy to be there with you, as well. By the way, I keep forgetting to comment on the pic of Kimmy and Cody at New Year's...I too think that they look like they were posing for the red carpet...both very spiffy and gorgeous.

Leah---how is it going with you? Have you had time to rest up that ankle? I hope so.

Well, need to get some things done...spent most of the afternoon out and about with hubby. He took me to "lupper" though, so all was not just work.

Have a good evening everyone...sending love and hugs. Those I've not mentioned...you are so deeply instilled in my heart, even when I am not talking to you, you are in my thoughts.

carol mikesmomrs