Loss of an Adult Child

[hotrod]

Geoff, Geoff, Geoff

Saying your name and praying

that you surround mom with your love

[westleysmom]

I really enjoyed the chat yesterday, but this cold is kicking my butt. We had started tearing out ceramic tile bathroom floor and the dust really was bad in here. We've got it all out now and will probably take a break for a few days. Its a powder room off the kitchen that we don't have to use much anyway. But it really was nice to talk to everyone who was in the chat.

Kathy-Way to go for your husband. That's a lot of weight to lose. I defer to Dee and others on whether Tav will benefit from more counseling, but it can't hurt, I wouldn't think. I love shopping for the house at Target, they have cool stuff.

Dee-Your story, I could never skip it. I always read the stories, even if I've read them before. The stories of our angels' lives and deaths are precious and some people we can't share them with, only true friends who understand. Other people seem to want us to gloss over the details, to say "He died" and leave it at that because that makes it easier for them. I don't care if its easier for them! But I know how hard it is to write those words again, so thanks for telling Eri's story.

Betsy-Hope you're doing okay. I know everybody is trying out New Year's Resolutions and all I can think about is January 13 and how to live through it and the 19th. I'm sure you're probably the same way, and you too Trudi. Holding you both close in my heart.

Thank you all for remembering Andrew and saying his name on his angel date. I don't know Geoff, but I hope his family can feel his love today and every day.

Getting ready to get out of here. I hope to make it to the cemetery today, although its very cold. Have as good a day as you can, all my friends.

[ericasmom]

Hey, some chat going on, take a look.

[Guest msnher]

Michelle - What is the name of your art site? I wanted to check it out and completely drew a blank.

Dee - Thank you for sharing the last good memories of Eri. I catch my breath each time I read about your dreams and the hand on your shoulder as you drove to the hospital. So sad. So sweet. So powerful.

Carol - Amanda and her boyfriend have an apartment in Rochester NH. She loves it there. Her days are still full of doctors and drugs. She seems to get a giggle out of doing exactly what they've told her not to do....like lifting and/or shoveling snow. I almost hung up on her when she told me she was shoveling snow. I hate that she is so far away. She had some blockage in her ostomy but they got it moving on a clear liquid diet. Until they find the exact cause, she is supposed to be very careful and watch what she eats. Even when they find the exact cause, it's not like they can do anything about it. She is not a candidate for surgery. She NEEDS to do what they say! She needs to do what I say!! She's been living with this since birth, so she just kind of blows us all off. We are grateful she doesn't have crones. Crones is a whole other headache, as you and Kim know all too well. All in all, it's the "same ol', same ol'" with Amanda. She doesn't think it's as cold there as it gets here. She said "they think it's windy here and I just laugh." However, I would still choose here over there in the winter. We don't have the humidity and/or ice. No way would I want to live in North Dakota. Now, they know cold...dontcha' Leah? Thanks for asking, Carol.

Kathy - Congrats to Barry! There is nothing wrong with therapy and I am all for it. Mariah described the death of her mother as "someone reached in a tore part of my heart out." She is a very animated child and was demonstrating the act of tearing. She got quiet for a moment and then said, "And, it will never grow back. That part belongs to my mommy." I respect that. I did take her to her counselor a couple of months ago because she seemed to be drifting into a darker place. Sometimes it's me who needs their counselor to tell me they are okay or that I'm doing the right thing. When I'm not sure, their counselor can calm my fears or tell me a better plan of action.

Damn! I just drew a blank again! I'm beginning to worry about alzheimers.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[shorty16]

Michelle, Ben’s Mom – Boy, can I relate to your son’s need-for-speed. My son, Brian was 16 when he decided to climb on the hood of a car. His friend drove 68 mph and lost control. Brian hit the ground and died within minutes. My son was a risk-taker. I tried to corral him – but could not.

You will find this group awesome.

Rhonda, Westley’s Mom – tearing out ceramic tile – yuck – I let the professionals do that in our kitchen. You and hubby must be good fixer-uppers. Scott and I are limited in that capability. Also, I am sending warm thoughts as January is a month filled with many memories. We are here for you.

Trudi – January is also a tough month for you, my friend. I am sure that the Healsville post office is holding your package from the USA. My-side stated it was delivered to the area PO. Hopefully, that will bring you a bit of joy during this month.

Dan, Nicks, Dad – Also a tough month for you with Nick’s birthday. To me, the birthday is much harder than the angel day. I am sending warm thoughts and a special thanks for all the beautiful electronic artwork you post for each of our angel’s special days.

Betty, Stephen’s Mom – New York must be settling down now into this New Year. When I read each of your posts, you are so in-tuned to each of our happenings and seem to say the right thing each time – a true gift – Keep up the good work.

Dee-Erica’s Mom - Your memory was told with such beauty, it was like I was there. You are a true mentor on this site. Green Bay plays the Bears today. Since Wisconsin lost the Rose Bowl yesterday, I am braced for the worst. Happy New Year my friend

Betsy, Rich’s Mom – A tough month for you also. I am sending warm hugs and prayers your way to soften the sad memories and brighten the good ones. Lord knows we all need that.

Carol, Mikes Mom – You are right, Skipping over this grief is not an option. Those that choose to do that have grabbed a toad-stool and are sitting on the road of grief. Grief is like a furnace that hardens, changes, and purifies us for the masters use.

Kathy, Jessica’s Mom – Thanks for telling us all about our virtual grandson, Tavian. I am a wanna-be grandma. Thanks for sharing Tavian with us. I read what Tavian said and none of us feel complete any more. It is what we choose to fill that void with that defines how we move forward. Good luck.

Bonnie, Marcia, Greg, Leah, Terrie, Lorri, Sherry, Cindy, Deneace, and the many others that share my grief journey; May 2011 bring all of us peace, laughter, joy and friendship.

Colleen, Brian’s Mother Forever

[Guest msnher]

Geoff, Geoff, Geoff....saying your name...

[Guest msnher]

Michelle - You are certainly talented! I don't know if I saw it all or not, but I already have my favorite. I don't know the name of the piece, though. Beautiful mermaid/siren in blues and greens with long, curly auburn hair. About halfway down your first page. I hope you were able to get some rest.

Colleen - I've missed you! It was good to log on and see Brian's face.

Nap time. We had homemade chicken and noodles and biscuits for lunch. Way too much salt!! I wasn't paying attention and just kept pouring the salt while I was cooking. I added a few potatoes so hopefully they will soak up the excess salt.

Blessings to all of you!

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[lolynbo]

HEY GUYS IM HERE JUST BEING WITH MY BOYS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEM BEING HOME...PLAYING GOLF, TENNIS, AND WE STARTED TO DO THE P90X LAST NIGHT CANT HARDLY MOVE TODAY LOL...

WANTED TO POST A PIC OF KIMMY AND HER HUBBY CODY FOR NYE...

JUST MISSIN MY GIRL LIKE I DID LAST YEAR

[mikesmum]

Carol - No the flooding is in the North. Here its just wet.

Michelle - Whereabouts in WA are you? I was there March 09. Loved it.

Colleen - Back to the hills today so will check in with the girls at the local PO.

Spoke with my ex (not my kids bio dad. He and I married when the kids were 4,5, & 6 so he really is the only dad they knew). He is out of ICU and recovering. Too much New Years celebrating lead him to fall. IDIOT!

More news of the New Year, my older brother suffered a stroke on Christmas Day. He is the one brother I am not close to at all. His boys are 18 and 21. Matt is 18 and lives with his dad, its been very frightening for him. Will be calling in on the way home to check in on them.

Dee - Thinking of you as you face the hernia head on.

Home to the hills ~ my first trip back in 2011.

[ericasmom]

I told a coworker about the hernia just now, was at school just getting prepared for tomorrow, she was too. She said, let's call your hernia Helen. I said, well that works, since that is my middle name. We laughed adn laughed. thanks Trudi, I will keep your love with me as I trudge forward.

[lolynbo]

Spoke with my ex (not my kids bio dad. He and I married when the kids were 4,5, & 6 so he really is the only dad they knew). He is out of ICU and recovering. Too much New Years celebrating lead him to fall. IDIOT!

lol

[ericasmom]

Lorri, I laughed as well, that Trudi, a way with words always!

[lolynbo]

Lorri, I laughed as well, that Trudi, a way with words always!

DAH TRUDI THATS WHY HES AN EX....LOL

[daveydow1]

Rhonda----Thinking about you with West's angel day, and birthday coming up. All days are difficult, but these days

are especially so. I'm glad that you came on BI........(but certainly NOT glad for your reason for coming on, of course.)

Sending thoughts & prayers your way that you can somehow find peace, friend.

Dee----I re-read your story of the nighmares you had which were omens of impending tragedy. Those dreams must

have scared you so much, and caused distress. Then, to have them come true with the terrible loss of dear Eri....

just too sad & catastrophic. I must say that David's death struck us like a bolt out of the blue. We did not have any

dreams or nightmares which would point to his death.. Only the one time when we were going into a restaurant from

the parking lot, and I passed the tractor part of a big rig parked there (blue in color). I walked by it, looked up at it's immensity

(compared to a regular passenger car), and said to my husband......."Imagine being hit by that thing". That was about

several days before Dave was hit and killed by a rig....(tractor color was blue ). that is the only time I had anything hinting

at disaster,.....and of course I only thought much of it AFTER Davey's death. Some things are so strange and unexplainable

in life. Sorry to hear of your health problem.

Carol and Susannah-------Thoughts & prayers for Kim and Amanda. Bless them.

Colleen-----I so know what you mean about handyman-type home remodeling.......My husband and I are not handy home-remodeler

types either. When we were to have upgrades done here at this house before moving in,.......we hired it done. We did paint the rooms,

but that was the extent of our work. While I admire anyone who can do home upgrades/remodeling, we realized our own limits in

that field, and left the work to the experts.

Lorri-----Great pic of Kim & her husband......thanks for posting.

Take care all INDIGOS.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[kmb22]

Edit

[summergirl]

Hello my friends - thank you all for your great comments....back to the therapist with Tavian and I will have some sessions with them also. Thanks Dee for reminding me that I cannot and should not try to solve everything for Tavian, yes, he does write in a journal and he also loves to draw which is great....but I believe that he needs to go back to therapy. He has been through so much and now with the move and everything being upside down for a few months it is bound to set him back a bit....

Trudi you crack me up - yes the ex is definitely an "IDIOT" !!! I am sorry about your brother and hope all turns out ok.

Yes I am proud of Barry to, every time I look at him I still say "wow". He has so much more energy and at times I have to tell him to slow down as he seems to go like the energizer bunny but it is so worth it. The look on his face when the 38 pants fit was just so great.... You go Ralph - 98 pounds is amazing !!

Alot done today and am tired....Tavian made "snickerdoodle cookies" - he was so cute measuring everything out and mixing it all up... really good cookies. He loves to cook so it was a fun thing to do together...

I will say good night and go do some internet searching. Back to work tomorrow after 11 days off and I am going to be crazy with all that has piled up plus all the end of year and the new year stuff - YUK I am going to be crazy Love, hope and strength, Kathy

[ericasmom]

Kath, sounds like you have some work ahead, me too after so many days off. I sure love having the time off, but I am anxious to see my students again, only won't see them much this week anyhow. Hopefully, I will be back with them in a week. Fingers crossed.

I love snickerdoodle cookies. I always tell adults that a great activity for kids is to cook. It covers reading, following sequential steps, math, and joining in on family preparations. All good stuff, and the fun? Well that is the best part.

Sherry, i forgot about the blue truck that you passed while going into a restaurant a few days ahead of Davey's accident. I too got chills when I read that tonight. I do believe it is an inkling, a tiny piece of future energy that floats in and around our spirits, perhaps trying to prepare us or give us a clue...don't know. Thanks for reminding me of that amazingly haunting detail.

Karen, same to you, as though a tiny bit of what was to be floated into your realm, a hint but not really because what would we do with such a hint...second guess ourselves or just feel freakish about it. It is something though, not to be explained away. I mean there have been times when I know I am feeling a bit wacky or scared for something, and then there are those times when events prove out the strange occurances in our lives and we are left to know that somehow, we had a 'beyond this plane' kind of moment.

I like your sense of humor Karen, Trudi is one funny Woman with a huge HUGE heart. Don't know how she contains it because she is quite petite.

Sus, glad to hear your Amanda is doing okay, she sure has been through a great deal. More prayers. Hope your ankles don't swell from your salty noodles. I LOVE salt. One would think me a porcupine or a deer. I will however need to stay clear of salty and yummy foods and even doing so I will be blobby soon with no exercise for a bit of recovery-weeks! YIKES! Speaking of weighty issues- my goodness Carol, how cool that Ralph has followed his diet so well, and I know that you have really implemented it. 98 pounds is a small adult. Great news.

Good night all, Love you

[ericasmom]

WHERE IS EVERYONE? I am at school, kids already in Fles, foreign language education study, and I will get them back in 20 minutes. I sure do love seeing them after two weeks away. I missed them.

Love you all, hope the day is good.

[hotrod]

Good Morning Dee and all Indigos

This morning I have been taking down my Christmas decorations and permitting myself to take a long trip down Memory Lane. The melancholy and re memories have engulfed me. I so want to stay in the warmth of the past and not attempt to start another New Year without Stephen. I know this will pass but right now it feels very real and I am letting myself drift away to what might have been.

Trudi I am so sorry to hear about your brother and hope he will regain his strength. My sister's children have just called and she is back in hospital and I will be traveling back there later today.

I guess I cannot hold back the New Year It starts even if I do not give it permission.

Rhonda, Karen, Crystal, Betsy and all Indigos Thinking of you with gentle thoughts today and every day.

[mikesmomrs]

Well, as for me and mine, we slept in! Long day yesterday...driving to south of Boston to see my sis. A wonderful, sad, happy, lengthy visit...we had i ntended to leave by 4 or so, didn't get home til 10. We had her birthday celebration, along with a belated Christmas celebration, held at my SIL's, and then back to Dorothy's apt and sat and talked for hours. I think I had told you all that I discovered some pics of her kids that I had that I gave to her (for those new here, my sister lost her children in a tragic accident, in 1973, and it has always been something that was "never discussed" in the family---by anyone---mostly by reasons associated with the times---reasons that we have seen dissipate somewhat, but back then, they were rigid). Anyway, I had given her these pics and she was thrilled, as she only had one set of school pics that someone had given her. Well, I was reviewing our own family movies from way back when, and came across a few moments (seconds, actually) of her children, taken at a Christmas gathering in 1970. This gathering just happened to be the last one we had with my dad, and all of us, (8 sisters and brothers and their families) just happened to stop by my mom and dad's that day, at one point or another, even those from out of state. Hubby and I had a new movie camera (silent, unfortunately), and were filming. As amateurs, the film isn't spectacular, but you can clearly see three of her children. I hesitated to ask her if she wanted to see it, as looking at a picture, and watching a movie are totally different, as we all know. However, I asked myself what I would do in her place, and my heart told me. As I said to Dorothy, even with the multitude of pictures we have of Mike, if someone gave me one I hadn't seen, I would be very thankful. So, I brought the cd with us, and told her what was on it, and of course, she wanted to see it. I held her hand, and when the children's happy, young faces flashed on the screen (we watched it on the tv), it was a moment of the joy mixed with sadness, mixed with thankfulness. I know that all here understand. I thank God I brought that cd...I thank God for my sis. The saddest part of the visit was noticing that my sis's health is definitely going downhill, and I honestly wonder if there will be another Christmas celebration with her. She is 83 years old, and though has had a terrible tragedy live in her heart for so many years, she has lived a good life, totally and faithfully believing that she will one day see her children again. I think she is expecting that to happen soon, and while not "giving up" seems to know this is coming. I will discuss more about this later, but have to run and pick up Mr. Cute for now. Have a good day everyone. The sun is bright and beautiful here, but the temps are chilling, just barely 30.

love and peac,e carol mikesmomrs

[Bensmummy]

Hello Stephens mum...I found it interesting that you dont want to start another year with out your handsome boy. I wondered if this would be so for me next year. As I lost my son Ben July 30th 2010 for me I couldnt wait to see the back of 2010. I stayed up and counted the year 2010 OUT! not really counted the year 2011 IN!. Everyone else was asleep and I just wanted it over with. Now Im hurtling toward the next milestone of his birth date January 13th and Im going to be glad to see the back of that date too. I decided Im not celebrating his birthday every year..this year I have a little Ben appreciation day planned but after that Im going to let them slip by as he is forever 26 and I in my heart will let him turn 27 but thats it. Forever young. Of course on the day he was born every year after this I know I will be thinking of him..well I am always but I will think on his birth and the darling baby he was...when he didnt have colic! I see my Ben in the future not behind me..I believe I will see him again.

I see every day every hour and minute as time that brings me to Ben not as it taking me away from him. I made a choice ...I chose to live and I believe that I need to live so I can live the best I can with the children I have here with me and I need to live in order to see Ben again. No shortcuts just stick to the road and the travel plans and I will get to my destination...facing forward and yes mostly smiling Michelle

[hotrod]

Hi Michelle

Nice to see Ben's handsome face and to hear how you are doing.

I agree ,the only way to live is going forward with eyes on the prize and knowing that we will see our angels again. Each day does bring that reality closer.This grief journey is a strange trip Many days are lived just as I would like and then other days the "Black Hole" beckens.me to wander down the beautiful days of the past. and linger for a time on what might have been. I let myself dwell there for a time and then it is back to the present and living life each day as Stephen would want me to. Just as Carol's sister has done for all these years

Carol so glad you had that video

Stay well all

[Bensmummy]

So true that Black hole is always there trying to get me to fall into it...I fight like mad to not go there and I think the fatigue I feel at times is not a physical tiredness its the constantly fighting to stay on top and mentally and emotionally its hard. I get sick of carrying this with me and then I get a little angry at Ben that I have too. I said to someone soon after I had lost Ben.."I dont do grief!" well ummm I soon learnt you dont get a choice. Its so overwhelming and its reminds me of a very old movie called The Blob..where this horrible jelly like creature just invades everywhere...this blob is in my life now invading every corner of my mind and sometimes I just have to stop and face it head on and try to push it back a bit. Im not wanting to give in to it. Does this continuous battle ever end? Will I win ?? not for awhile, the eyes on the prize is something I know well and that is exactly what gets me battling on and here I can learn from others who have been battling the insidious blob of grief in their lives now for quite awhile and learn what weapons they use to push it back. Im rambling a bit sorry darlings its 1am in the morning. I seem to like the quiet hours at night alone ..its when my thoughts turn to Benjamin the boy , the son, my crazy boy. sigh ..what can you do ..battle on I guess. ..Michelle

Hi Michelle

Nice to see Ben's handsome face and to hear how you are doing.

I agree ,the only way to live is going forward with eyes on the prize and knowing that we will see our angels again. Each day does bring that reality closer.This grief journey is a strange trip Many days are lived just as I would like and then other days the "Black Hole" beckens.me to wander down the beautiful days of the past. and linger for a time on what might have been. I let myself dwell there for a time and then it is back to the present and living life each day as Stephen would want me to. Just as Carol's sister has done for all these years

Carol so glad you had that video

Stay well all

[mikesmomrs]

Michelle: Of course we all understand your "blob" theory...pushing it back, feeling it encroaching again, etc. It is our life, and over time, we do indeed learn to live with it, to take it with us as we go along. Our pain is intense, but we here for a while can tell you that over time it does get softer...it does not ever go away...it is a part of us, forever. I have said this before, many here have heard me say it again... Mike battled brain cancer for 17 months. We lived in hell, but it was important for all of us to enjoy each other, to have a happy time...to let him know that he brought joy into our lives. As much as I wanted to sit around and cry, I had to not do that. But, it was inevitable that the tears would force their way through at times, and they did. One time when that happened, Mike came to me, stood in front of me, with his hands on my shoulders, looked right into my eyes and said "Mom, you can't die because I do. You have to live." Yes, our children want us to live...they want us to live a full life...to honor their lives by doing so...and so we have chosen to do that, to honor his life by trying to be the best we can be, trying to get as much out of life as we can. Of course, this was impossible those first months, heck even that first year...but slowly, we found ourselves seeking out joy...and slowly, it found us. I can still remember the first time that I laughed out loud...it was like a strange sound, coming from somewhere forgotten, and I instantly felt guilty. "Laugh?" How could that be...my son is dead! I cannot be laughing. But I did. and I laughed again. And when I laugh, I feel Mike in my soul, laughing with me. Mike had a dark sense of humor, he was very satirical, and he loved to show that sardonic grin when something darkly humorous would happen. Joy will find you again, Michelle...Ben will make sure of it. All of the other feelings will be there, too, but the joy will come again. As Dee said to me when I first signed on here, and has said to so many since, "I promise." Sending love and peaceful memories to you, Michelle, and holding you close in thought and prayers.

carol mikesmomrs

[lolynbo]

IM HERE GUYS JUST READING...I DONT GO INTO THE CHAT ROOM, ID PROB NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE HERE AT HOME....

HOPE ALL IS WELL...KODY WENT BACK TO SCHOOL, I SURE ENJOYED HIM BEING HERE WITH MOMMY....THE P90X IS KILLN US...IM HURTN BUT WE DID IT 2 XS SO FAR AND TONIGHT IS ANOTHER NIGHT...

BACK TO KOURTNEYS KLOSET TOM, WE HAVE SO MANY DONATIONS....ALOT OF BOYS STUFF WHICH WE NEED...

As much as I wanted to sit around and cry, I had to not do that. But, it was inevitable that the tears would force their way through at times, and they did. One time when that happened, Mike came to me, stood in front of me, with his hands on my shoulders, looked right into my eyes and said "Mom, you can't die because I do. You have to live."

WAS THIS A DREAM/VISIT OR BEFORE MIKE PASSED?...EITHER WAY...WOW...WISH MY KOURTNEY COULD TELL ME THAT..IM SURE SHE HAS BUT

[Guest msnher]

Hello Indigo's;

Just a quick post. Mariah has been wanting to stay up and watch the Harry Potter series all night for quite a while. Last night I let her. We began with Nanny McPhee because I knew Jasmine and Jonathon would have bad dreams if they watched Harry Potter and I knew they would fall asleep during Nanny McPhee...a feel good story...and, I was right. Those movies don't affect Mariah the same way they do others. She made it until 6am! I figured she would sleep the day away but she was up before me and I only slept until 8:30. She's very crabby! But, she will remember this forever.

So, the phones are off and we are all going to bed now. At least, I am. I made bread pudding for breakfast. I've never made it before and not even my husband has eaten it before. It was yummy!

Oh...I finally got the guts to tell Kevin (the kid's dad) it was time to scale back the twice a week visits and we needed time to focus on our little family and work into our own routine. I worried that he would be angry and I had my defense all prepared, but he wasn't. He understood and just asked if he could still attend their school functions and talk to them on the phone. Of course he can. I didn't have to tell him I dreaded his visit days and that having him here was like having an extra kid and trying to enforce our rules with an adult as well as the children whom seem to forget them as soon as he walks in the door was becoming too difficult. I didn't have to tell him that he is a bad influence on his children. That he has not had a job in two years and is still unable to take care of himself and that he has now gotten a second woman pregnant within the last year and I don't want the kids subjected to that. I didn't have to tell him that the resentment I have towards him over the things he did to my daughter and the lack of protection he provided for her children has crept back into my soul and that seeing him just exacerbates my anger. I was ready to, though. I was ready to tear him to shreds. I'm not proud of that. Justified or not, I don't like my gift of being able to bury someone with my words of wrath.

Our words have the power to destroy or build. I've tried to forgive him. Actually, I think I have forgiven him. I was just building a defense I didn't need. Justification. Even writing out my feelings, here, causes me some angst because I don't like putting that kind of energy "out there".

He reminds me of a wounded puppy. He has made many bad choices. But, I know what my daughter put him through. There is no denying that. I even said so in court. I'm sure my blunt honesty about my own daughter surprised the defense attorney and even the judge. I told them that I told Kevin point blank not to take her back. At that time he was my grandkids best hope. And, for a time, he almost succeeded. But, he just chose another sick woman...one much sicker than my daughter. Much, much worse on a grand scale of "worse".

And, yet he stood beside her through the whole trial. He even believed her when his own children sat on the witness stand and testified against her. He even believed her when he saw all the pictures of their bruised and battered bodies. Over 200 pictures were taken of them. He believed her over the school personnell.

He didn't "leave" her until it became clear she was going to be conficted and he was going to lose all his parental rights. He didn't show any remorse until Stephanie died. And, then, he jsut found another girlfriend. I liked her. But, he hadn't told her the truth about the situation with his kids and as soon as she found out, she got an abortion and broke up with him....now, just a few months later, he has a new girlfriend and she's pregnant. They live in a dive of an apartment with her other three kids. Neither one of them work. Kevin said she used to be friends with Stephanie. That's not a good recommendation. (little smirk) Prospective tenants used to come to me and tell me they were friends with Stephanie thinking it would increase their chances of getting an apartment. "Um...you might want to find another reference" I would say to them. "I love my daughter and I'll fight to the death for her, but I know the life she leads and the kind of friends she keeps." Most of them never came back.

Deep sigh. My heart hurts. I DO love my daughter. I always have. I believe she knows that. I know she knows that. When she was clean and sober she was the best kind of human being one could meet. Put that poison in her and she was your worst nightmare.

Well. I guess I had more to say than I thought. Now I've worked myself into a grief episode. Not the gut wrenching pain and sobbing. Just the wet eyes and painful knowing that it was what it was. It was as bad as it sounds........and, it was as good as it was. It is so ironic to know these people, these drug addicts, have good hearts, and they are tortured souls, but they will run you over and not look back in the cups of their addiction.

I'm so grateful she and I had a different relationship the last six weeks of her life. I'm so glad I didn't know about the men she was bringing into her life and potentially into her children's lives. I'm so glad we were spared another round. I'm so glad I don't have to worry about where she is or what she's doing or if she's lying dead somewhere or being beaten and raped again. I'm so glad I don't have to worry about her children anymore. That's the main thing. Her children. If it weren't for her children, I'd trade it all jsut to have her back here with me again. How selfish is that? Her tortured life is over. She is free. And, I would trade it to have her here, with me. I would still enable her. Still yell at her. Still threaten her. Still bribe her. I would still stalk her and breakup ehr parties. I would still try to find out who her pimp was and turn him over to the police...and her drug dealer.

Her drug dealer.

He turned out to be a close family friend. I had no idea until he was arrested. No idea. How many times had he and his wife sat on my sofa as I cried about Stephanie's latest crisis. I told them I could care less about the person who sold the drugs to Stephanie. I wanted to find the person who was bringing into Casper. I wanted to kick his ass. And, he was so understanding. And, it was him the whole time.

It was his cousing who raped Stephanie so violently. It was him who was threatening my family. He didn't use the drugs he brought into Casper. He was too smart for that.

Okay. I have to stop now. I want to run and protect my baby girl and I can't. Did I try hard enough? What if I make the same mistakes with ehr kids? What if I'm making a mistake by taking the regular visits away from their dad? Am I a bad person or a lazy person because I don't want to deal with it? I know the answers to those questions. I just wish it could have been different.

Ouch.

Nite.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom I'm not doing spell check.

[Guest msnher]

Sorry Indigo's. I know I don't have to say sorry, here, but I say it anyway. Most of the time I don't know what's going on inside of me until I have written out, and see it on my screen.

I wanted things to be different with Stephanie. I wanted things to be different with Kevin. I wanted Kevin to become the kind of man/father I wanted him to be. The kind he never had. I did the right thing. It all just makes me sad. I'll never be happy about the situation, but I will be happy again, as soon as I get some sleep.

Thanks!!

[Guest msnher]

One more thing,

I am capable of forgiveness when someone is truly sorry and turns their life around. I want to be capable of forgiveness when they're still in the depths of what ever it is I feel needs to be forgiven. I can forgive almost anything done to me. It is harder to forgive what has happened to my grandchildren. I hate that blackness in me. The blackness of hate that I have for them is the same shade of black of what they did to my grandchildren. If we were to be separated by aura's I would be put in the same group as them. It's the same black.

I also know it's possible to forgive and to still protect. But, I wasn't able to protect my daughter from herslef. In many ways, I think I was the reason she made many of the choices she did. She couldn't live up to my expectations. I believe she tried, but she was just incapable. She had a lot of resentment towards me because I was so controlling. And, she rebelled. Boy, did she rebell. And, she wanted my approval so desperately.

That's the stuff I have to turn over to the powers that be and allow the energy of love, light and joy to penitrate. I can do nothing about it now, but I can try to do better with her children. I will try to protect them better than I protected Stephanie. Enough of regret and guilt. I can't fix it, so I might as well put down my whipping stick.

[Guest msnher]

I feel guilty for being so relieved. Now, I'm done. Now that I've identified it, I can deal with it.

[Crystal16]

Hello Indigo’s,

It has been awhile since I have posted. I’m pleased the holiday’s are behind me, I hated every minute not having Ashlee around us!

It is four months today since God has received her into his heavenly kingdom. It feels like yesterday I was told the horrific news of my daughter’s negligent death. I don’t feel any further on my grieving journey… I’m still angry, emotionally exhausted and the tears keep flowing.

Susannah- I can relate to your blackness! I so want to forgive Dylan and Ashlee but my rage has darkened my heart....

[lolynbo]

LOVE THIS SONG:

I was sure by now,God, that You would have reached down

and wiped our tears away,

stepped in and saved the day.

But once again, I say amen

and it's still raining

as the thunder rolls

I barely hear You whisper through the rain,

"I'm with you"

and as Your mercy falls

I raise my hands and praise

the God who gives and takes away.

Chorus:

And I'll praise you in this storm

and I will lift my hands

for You are who You are

no matter where I am

and every tear I've cried

You hold in your hand

You never left my side

and though my heart is torn

I will praise You in this storm

I remember when I stumbled in the wind

You heard my cry to You

and raised me up again

my strength is almost gone how can I carry on

if I can't find You

and as the thunder rolls

I barely hear You whisper through the rain

"I'm with you"

and as Your mercy falls

I raise my hands and praise

the God who gives and takes away

Chorus

I lift my eyes onto the hills

where does my help come from?

My help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth

I lift my eyes onto the hills

where does my help come from?

My help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth

[Guest msnher]

Love the song, Lorri. Who sings it?

Crystal - Grief hurts so badly I think it's normal to want to push through it quickly. However, that's impossible. Four months is nothing. It's like yesterday. Be patient with yourself (as so many here still remind me to do). Is the trial still going on or did they break for the holidays?

Dee - what time do you go in for surgery tomorrow? You said it was outpatient, so will it be a less intrusive procedure? Go through your belly button? How was school? Our kids still have another week to go. I forbid the TV and/or Wii and/or computer games because they needed to read and write. None of them slept during nap/quiet time and they all ahd their writing completed by the time I woke up. I was quite surprised. Their happy voices now echo through the house. I can't believe Mariah still has not slept. She is sure to sleep well tonight. I agree with you about allowing the kids to help cook. Mariah got a Better Homes and Garden cookbook for kids for Christmas. Mine is my favorite cookbook, although I use the internet, too.

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[Guest msnher]

Karen - I just remembered you saying something about Amanda, my oldest daughter, living in New Hampshire. Yes, she moved there (from Wyoming) last May. She's 31 so she is certainly of legal age to make her own choices. But still....

She was born with "multiple congenital anomolies"...which simply means she has a lot of different things wrong with her. You would never know it to look at her.

[westleysmom]

Susannah-I think that song is by Casting Crowns. The album is called Lifesong. I used to listen to a Christian rock station that played it a lot. I don't listen to them much anymore, haven't for a while. I'm so sorry you're feeling the blackness of regret. I do all the time and have to fight it. And the nerve of the drug dealer, I'd feel black about that one, too. I'm sorry too that the kids dad is not who he should be, but at least it seems he knows it.

Crystal-I'm so sorry that it seems that you haven't made any "progress", but what does that even mean? Bereaved parents are the bravest people there are, to keep getting up every day is such a struggle. You are in my thoughts. I'm glad the "holidays" are over too. Maybe someday they will be merry or happy or whatever, but this year, I'm just glad they're over. Be kind to yourself and don't try to push yourself too much.

Dee-Very busy at work today and couldn't get on earlier. Will be thinking about you as you have your procedure tomorrow. Will you quit using your middle name if they "remove" her? I love an excuse not to exercise, but not feeling bad. Which I kind of am, this cold is nasty. I'm going to try to hit the sack early. The Titans lost when they should have won, and I think maybe Chicago did too? I didn't watch much football yesterday. I went to the cemetery in the afternoon and sat on the new bench that my brother in law and his family put at the foot of the grave. It was still cold, but nice not to be on the wet ground. Well, keep us posted on how you're doing. I hope it all goes well.

Sherry-That also gave me chills, the encounter with the truck. I never really had a feeling that I woulld outlive Westley, but he was such a bad driver and seemed to always live on the edge, that I worried about him constantly, which I don't think is exactly the same as having a premonition. He didn't even die in a wreck, and that was what I mostly worried about.

Betty-I think we have to linger sometimes in what might have been. Sometimes it can even make me smile, just for a minute anyway. Stay warm, dear lady and enjoy those memories and might have beens.

Michelle-Trying to stay out of the black hole or being absorbed by the Blob of grief is a full-time wear you out job. I have mixed feelings about the passage of time, but I guess everyone does. But pushing on every day is easier on some than others. I hope you have some easy ones so you can get your strength back for the hard ones.

Lorri-The picture of NYE party was so good. They looked like movie stars on the red carpet. Good job with getting guy clothes for Kourtney's Kloset, that is such a good job you're doing.

Well, gotta get something going for supper so we can get medicated and go to bed. Sleep well, all my friends and sweet dreams

[lolynbo]

ITS CASTING CROWNS...WHEN THEY PLAY IT...KLOVE SAYS IT FOR ALL THE ONES THAT HAVE LOST LOVED ONES..

[Crystal16]

Ashlee's trial reconvenes on March 16th...the public defendant need four hours of deposition and a gun specialist to testify.

[daveydow1]

Karen-----Sorry to hear about the guy who cme in from the deck.....rang a bell....and said "Police"...only to have you

receive the devastating news that no parent ever thinks they will receive. I guess we never thought it (before our

sad news....that is ), because our minds just would never let us.....too horrific to even let it pass fleetingly through

our thoughts. As I said,....I didn't consider the huge blue truck in the parking lot as any 'premonition'.....only thought

about it several weeks after Davey died..---then it hit me, full force. These things can be very unsettling, can't they?

Dee----Prayers for you outpatient surgery to go well. Still keep thinking about your nightmares preceeding ERi's death.

I wonder what some 'expert' would say about it.? Also, don't know what kind of expert that would be. I pray that these

dreams don't serve to haunt you. Of course, I know they will always be in your memory, though. I think I have put the

'blue truck' thing out of my mind for the most part.

Kathy-----YUM.... snickerdoodles.!! They are good cookies, and so cute for Tav to make them. I'm sure he was pleased

with the results. I have not made them for years, but I do remember making them when I was in 4-H.....many moons ago.

Betty-----I will tackle the taking down of Christmas decorations pretty soon. YIKES....what a job. I so know what you mean

about wanting to stay in the warmth of the past with Stephen...........if only. I ,too, find myself reminiscing a lot......especially

during the holidays. I mean....the task of putting all the Xmas stuff away is not really a huge job,.......it just seems like

'closing another door' in a way. Does that make any sense?

Michelle---Ben's Mom----You are so right....time passing does bring us closer to seeing our beloved children again. Each

day it is a little closer. And, I agree.---we don't have any choice about grief......it's there.

Susannah-----I believe you are handling Kevin.....the kids' dad, in the right way, and wish only to make the kids' life more stable

after all they've been through. I guess Kevin just did not want to see the real person (the girlfriend) that abused the kids so much.

Oh-----bread pudding. I dearly LOVE the stuff. My husband does not care for it, so when I make it, I have to eat it myself.

Crystal-----I agree with you that it's good to have the holidays behind us for another year. Although they are wonderful in many ways,

they can also be a big strain---especially to we who are greiving.

Rhonda-----I don't believe that I had any other ''strange' premonition-type visions about Davey's death. I guess we all worry about

our kids when they are out on the highways, but I never in a million years thought Dave would die in such a horrific crash. He was

already dead by the time we got the devastating news. Never got to say goodbye. Peace & comfort to you, friend.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[ericasmom]

Rhonda and Sus, my surgery time is 12:00 noon, but I must arrive by 10:30 thanks for your kind thoughts, prayers. I will take those as medicine. I sure hope it all goes smoothly and that I am back home tomorrow evening or late afternnoon even. It is not through the navel Sus, this is open surgery, not laproscopic, and I will be hurting some for a few days and recovery is pretty long, though the Surgeon felt that I may be back at work by Monday the 10th. Hope so, but many things I read say 3 weeks at home. Good Glory that would be difficult. We will see, no sense in jumping on the worry wagon, (the nutty worried woman says to herself). Anyhow, I will get online as soon as I am able to let you all know how I am. thanks.

Rhonda, Crystal, Karen, Michelle, all those so early on, remember that when you take those steps forward, and fall back two, you are still making progress. This is a life long process, so nobody should be expecting more from you than you are able to give on any given day. You are the only ones that are allowed to make statements about your progress or your feelings of lack. The first year is one wave crashing on shore after another. You get your lungs filled with air right before another wave crashes you down and finds you gasping. It is very hard but I ask any one of you to look back over your shoulder, look back and see the day you learned this awful truth. Look now where you stand. You have indeed taken steps and while it feels like yesterday at 4 months, it may feel to others like 4 years. Time became a very abstract element to me when Eri died, and it has remained fairly so. The other day my husband made the year's calendar with all of the birthdays of our loved ones and anniversaries too. So I looked it over from Jan-Dec. There on April 4th it says, Erica Eileen Reith-27th birthday. I know it will be her 27th, but reading it? Holy cow, how in the world could my 19 year old girl be turning 27? There are still days when that phone call was yesterday, and days where it happened to some ancient ancestor of mine. Not removed of course, but it was a million years ago. See, that is what I mean about abstract, it no longer holds a linear zone, it is all over the place. Each of you and us have made many steps, as evidence to that is the exhaustion Michelle speaks of, it takes a huge energy to get from one hour to the next some days, even minutes seem to tick for a very long time, but no matter, the amount of energy it takes to live in grief and find a life within the new parameters is the most exhausting work in a life. WE are brave, we are journey-women and men finding light on an otherwise, dark and lonely path. As Carol so beautifully said, it will be there one day, light, joy. It will happen, you will live in the love and light of your Baby, and you will see how many steps it took to find that place inside of you. And I do believe that each time Carol reminds a new group of her Son's magic words, he has spoken for all of our Babies, thank you Mike for your insight and thanks Carol, for sharing him with us.

One day you will be proud of this work you all do each new sunrise. We are, in the meantime, proud of you.

Love for each day,

dee

[ericasmom]

Sherry, you and I posted at the same time, thanks Sweetie, I do appreciate the prayers and energy coming from you...

[hotrod]

Hi Again Indigos

Dear DeeI must have missed your posting about your surgery. I am so sorry I have not been supportive as you are so there for us all.

Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers today and every day. A friend of mine had the same surgery just before Thanksgiving. She is doing well, and was back at work within 7 days. She could not exercise, golf nor play tennis for over a month but I know she left for vacation yesteday and was doing fine.

Rhonda I am so happy that your family had a bench placed at Westley's resting place I know how important it is to have others acknowledge our precious children. I do hope you rest and recover your strength.

Sus Please be gentle with yourself You have handled so much negative stuff with dignity. In my small world and my opinion, Letting go of the blackness is a process. You just need to let go of the anger so it stops being te negative energy in your soul. You certainly do not have to t embrace these people as your friends. Trust your inner voice You are a spiritual woman

Trudi and Crystal praying for your peace Dear ladies

Sherry I agree you said exactly what I was feeling The closing of another door as I put away the decoration. I found my hurt little squirrel today She had been missing since the snow storm and i thought she was gone. She is a trooper Needless to say she was rewarded with tons of shelled nuts.

Lorrie lovely words

e

Karen and Sherry and Dee Thanks for sharing yoru precognition of your loss. Each incident was so touching and powerful. I like Rhonda did not have any pre signal of my loss but I,as she had underlying fear because of Stephen like Westley's love of living on the edge

Kathy I do love the picture of tavian making is cookies. Steephen loved to cook as well. The picture in my mind of him Mixing and stirring is so sweet.

Carol I hope Mr Cute is well and warming your heart with his spirit

Leah, Betsy, Michelle, Chris and all Indigos please stay connected

Leaving for my sisters in a few minutes Please stay safe

[Guest msnher]

Dee - You are definitely in my prayers. I pray the angels of healing guide your doctor's hands and that your recovery be speedy and your pain be minimal. Peace and rest to you, our Yoda.

Much love,

Susannah/Stephanie's mom

[lolynbo]

SPEEDY RECOVERY DEE...YOUR A TUFF COOKIE IM SURE YOU WILL DO FINE...HUGGSS

[Guest msnher]

"In the arms of the Angel far away from here

From this dark, cold hotel room, and the endlessness that you fear

You are pulled from the wreckage of your silent reverie

You're in the arms of the Angel; may you find some comfort here." (Sarah McLachlan)

For us and for our angels.

[summergirl]

Dee - I am sorry, I did not realize you were going in for surgery - prayers and strength and a speedy recovery to you...Those kids are going to miss you so you need to get better fast...

Once again I cannot seem to catch up with everyone..driving me crazy...

Oh yes, the snickerdoodles are great - actually eating one now as I sit here Tavian had a great time making them...he does very well reading the directions and loves the measuring part !!! When I told him he needed to add a bit more to the "cup" he said "oh mi-mi, it doesn't have to be exactly right" - I believe that was once said by a very wise woman !!!

I am missing my Jessica so much....cannot stop thinking about her even though I am so busy at work I hardly had a break but she is there every second.....I heard the new song "I won't let go" by Rascal Flatts today and I cried....I wanted to share it with you but I don't know how to copy from you tube to here.....It is a song I would sing to all of you.....

It is late and I need some sleep so I will say good night and talk tomorrow. Much love and strength to all, Kathy

Lori - loved the song !!

[Bensmummy]

Please can someone tell me what a snickerdoodle is... Im from Aussie and Ive never hear do f them...link me to recipe but put me out of my misery back here...LoL I am salivating over something I dont have a clue what it is..but it sure sounds incredibly yummy! smiles Michelle

[lolynbo]

KOURTNEY SUE..CHRISTMAS DAY

[mikesmomrs]

Dee: Holding you close in my thoughts and prayers...your sweet "Tink" will be hovering close by. Have our sweet Garden Gnome, John, let us know how you are doing, if you are not up to it. Sit back and recover...prayers, sweet thoughts and strong love are headed your way from us all.

The day I left Mike off for kindergarten, it was at a beautiful, private school, on the island of Guam. It was at a convent, where they provided day care, and kindergarten only. I had originally enrolled him in the local school, but it was just horribly rundown and had very little to offer (The teachers actually went on strike over Christmas because of the conditions)---my boss's wife told me about the local convent school and so we took Mike there. He was so very excited, as it was a beautiful classroom and he had been told over the previous summer by us and his sisters that he would "love school," that it would be fun, etc. And on this beautiful sun-filled morning, he was bursting with excitement and joy when he saw this beautiful classroom. After I left him off, I drove down the road just a bit, and pulled over. The tears of "leaving my last baby at school for the first time" came, and I let them wash down my face as I remembered the sweet years since his birth, and daydreamed of the future. After another few moments, I started to leave, but instead of starting the car, I settled back against my seat for another moment. I had stopped crying, and felt completely calm.

Despite my feelings of calm, there was something else, something I couldn’t quite grasp in my head. And then I felt it in my heart. I remembered the day he was born. How worried I was before that day, strangely, nine months of worry, not like my other pregnancies, and how, the night before his birth (I was being induced the next morning), lying in the hospital bed looking out the window into the dark night, pierced with the distant bright lights from the city of San Antonio, I somehow finally found the peace and serenity that allowed me to bring my baby into the world in a happy state of mind, with all the promises of the future placed in my arms in the form of my precious son. My thoughts traveled back to the present, sitting there in my car, under the bright sunshine of that beautiful little island. And I knew. I don’t know how I knew. I just knew. No words were spoken. No scenarios were formed in my mind. And yet, all of the words were spoken, the scenarios formed and slid through my mind, leaving only one thought—my son was only on loan. Of course, all of our children are “on loan” when you think about it. They aren’t “ours,” they are merely in our charge, to love and nurture and teach, and introduce to the world—and the world to them. And then to leave them behind as we travel on to our final world—the world of eternity. But somehow I knew at that very moment that I would not leave my son and travel on…I knew that HE would leave ME and travel on, to that “world of eternity.” Strangely, I did not feel a tremendous sadness over these thoughts, just a sort of acceptance, a strange peaceful realization that that was how it was going to be. I didn’t cry. No tears fell. I just sat there and felt that trail of thoughts travel through my being, and settle in my heart. I would outlive my son. And it would be okay. Such a contradiction of words! But at that moment, no sense of urgency, or sorrow, or loss, came over me. Just that same, warm, peaceful feeling that I had felt five years before, the night before his birth. So tense and worried for nine long months, and then unexpectedly feeling so peaceful in anticipation. When I had looked out that window, I honestly felt what I believed to be God's presence in my heart. A sense of the lifting away of all of the anxiety and worry of the past nine months. And now, five years later, with that same sense of having my worry lifted away, I was learning that this was how it was going to play out—I would outlive my son. I rolled down my window and let the warm, tropical air drift in. I hadn’t realized it, but I was shaking. I looked out the window then, up into the startingly blue sky and despite my feelings of calm, suddenly screamed “YOU KNEW! YOU KNEW, DIDN'T YOU!?!?” “Of course You did." I said, "You know everything." Calm again. Settled. Anxiety gone. I was still looking up at the sky, aware of its brightness and endlessness. And then I said, “But you’re going to have to help me with this, You know that, too, I hope.”

I never consciously thought about that again, and Mike had many near-misses throughout his life..times when we stood anxiously by, worried that he had gone through the nine lives he seemed to have been born with. Some of the most memorable are that he once fell down, while alone, in a grand mal seizure in the middle of a busy traffic circle...another time his car was hit by a tractor trailer that was going 55 miles an hour (Mike was sitting still, waiting to turn, without a seatbelt on) and came away with only a small cut on his forehead...he fell off a cliff in the mountains at night while camping out and wound up with only a broken wrist. But no matter the danger he had flirted with, those thoughts I'd had on Guam never came to me again...until we heard the diagnosis on May 18, 2005. It all came back to me, and I knew that the prayers we would say, would ask for, would be only to help us through this...that there would be no "miracle." That this was where he/we had been headed all along. With this, I knew the clock was running out. Ten days later, the doctor confirmed our worst thoughts---that Mike had only a short time to live, that this tumor was not curable. "This type of tumor is fatal" he said. And I knew.

I pray you all peace for this week...

love and prayers, carol mikesmomrs

[Guest msnher]

Snickerdoodles are cookies....kind of a sugar cookie rolled in cinnamon and sugar. love em.

[mikesmomrs]

Kathy, Michelle, Lorri, we posted at about the same time. Lorri: What a cutie...Kourt is loving on her for sure! Sus: those words from that beautiful song haunt me sometimes...they are so sad yet comforting.

Michelle...a snickerdoodle is kind of like a sugar cookie, but it is rolled in cinnamon and sugar before it is baked. here's a link to a recipe: http://allrecipes.co...les/Detail.aspx

Kathy: So sorry that you are missing your Jess so much right now...I expect it may have something to do with the transition from your old house to this one...all the changes, the work, the wearing down of your energies...etc. She is with you, Kath, always. Sending love and hugs to you. Here's the Youtube link to your song:

love and peace, carol mikesmomrs

[kmb22]

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