Grief and the Court System

[foreverchanged]

WillsMom--

The justice system is a joke. They care more about the rights and feelings of the "Accused" then they do the victim (deceased child) or the family of the deceased. I learned that first hand.

I think the court thinks we parents are just out for the alimighty dollar. They don't see that it is justice we are after. We parents aren't saying these individuals set out to kill our children. We are saying that their negligence did.

*This post was edited because it contained too much of my personal information.

[willsmom]

Boy--foreverchanged--are you my kinda girl---I do not want to cause you pain, or make you feel badly---but she should be behind bars or on some kind if watch. Speaking personally, I have driven NOT on the wrong side of the road, and I am so, so sorry...I am guilty of the cell phone thing, but I never hurt anyone...my heart just screams at me to try and help you....and your story has even made me madder....I would be on knees in front of you begging for forgivness(sp)....This "lady" who did this to you is crap....I am so sorry....I am so emotional lately...I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn....but I feel your pain...maybe not you think...but I feel it..everyday, all day. Justice----No, I doubt I will feel that Will's dying was ever justified...the more I learn the meaner I get....I wish you peace, as I know you do me....but holy ****...why???? WillsMom~~Allyson

[mom2angels]

{{{Allyson}}} ~

I'm so sorry that the OB's depo is leading you to a trial.

To your lawyer, it IS about money. To the doctor, it is also about money, as well as reputation. She is thinking about her career. If she cried, at least she demonstrated some feeling of sadness about her "mistake." Whether that is because Will died as a result, or because she feels that "mistake" is jeopardizing her future medical practice may be discernable in court. But then again, maybe not.

To you, it is only about Will, and it is entirely about Will. Among the professionals involved in your situation, you may be the only one, who is truly focused on the real reason you are all IN this situation -- Will. Always remain focused on him, and make sure that your lawyer is as focused on him as possible.

So, we will pray for a judge who will also think about Will, and we will pray for justice for Will. And strength for you as you walk through this difficult process. And I will pray that this doctor will be overcome with sorrow for the loss of your precious son, and that she will say the words you need to hear and admit to her failure.

Stay strong.

Prayers for your peace and comfort today and every day~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Foreverchanged}}} ~

I am incredulous at everything you have shared here. How does this woman look at herself in the mirror or sleep at night? No remorse, no contrition, no conscience. How utterly callous and immoral. I am so very sorry for the loss of your son, and that you must contend with her refusal to take responsibility.

You are so right that she must answer to a higher authority than our court system. I am glad for you that you are able to embrace that thought.

May you feel your son very near you, and may God grant you peace and comfort~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[joshsmom]

Hi Everyone!

I feel so horrible about the way things have been going for you, Will's Mom! But as everyone here that has gone through the courts, including me, it is all about the "other guy", not the victim and not the victim's family!

As you know, we waited over 19 months, with lots of rescheduled dates and cancellations, only to have the kid that handed my son a lethal dose of Methedone, cut a plea bargain! If this was going to be all that happened, why in the world were we put through 19 months of waiting. Waiting for his attorney to talk with the DA, behind our backs, and come up with a plea bargain that went from charges of 1st Degree Reckless Homocide and 2 counts of delivering a perscription narcotic to minors, down to, 1 count of delivering and the other charges dismissed!!! In the end, they came up with a plea bargain that didn't even accknowledge the fact that my son, my 16 yr old son, who had never been in any trouble with the law or drugs, had died here! he had a massive seizure which caused him to go into a coma while he slept and never woke up from! I know alot of details about what the seizure did and I am haunted by the reality that he may have felt pain and fear, and on top of everything, he was at his best friend's home. He was alone, his friends were also sleeping and didn't realize anything was wrong! Did he???? I have been feeling very dow too latley and I just can't get passed the reality of never seeing Josh again, on this earth! I can't imagine living the rest of my life here, feeling like this! It's so hard to feel so empty everyday!

This kid ended up getting 1 year in jail, which he is serving right now. He also got 5 years of probation. He will serve that when he gets out. His Mother, who had the perscription, and was a major druggy, died of a methedone everdose herself, and we got this news on what would have been, my son's 18th birthday. Which was a relief!!!! I am glad that she is gone! I also feel that she met her judgment that day and had to finally admit her wrongdoing! (Which neither one of them had done.)

I'm sorry to go on and on, but I just can't get passed this! Wait and wait, get a bit of so-called justice, only to feel empty and alone at the end of it all!

Nothing brings back our kids or the life we had before all of this tradgedy!

But like someone said, I would do it all again, for Joshua!!!! I know he didn't understand the dangers of these 2 little pills that were handed to him! He was put into a situation because of this kid's actions to give out these things!!!

Now he has a few years to get through and he will be able to continue on with his life! He has been inconvenienced alittle bit, that's all!

Our family is forever changed and broken!!

No one seems to realize the major pain this causes!!

I never wanted anything more, than to be a Mom!

I do still have my 21 yr old, living son, but my feelings about being a Mom have been changed forever! I feel like I let everyone down because I didn't do a good enough job of protecting Josh! He had learning disibilities, which I feel prevented him from realizing the consiquences of his actions by accepting these pills in the first place! He didn't understand and didn't deserve to die from his one and only mistake!

I just feel so worthless!!

I would do anything to change that day!

It will be 2 years, on May 31st, and I feel like a failure!

I just can't imagine living without our "whole" family!

I keep alot inside of me because I don't want the rest of my family to hurt. Everyone tells me how strong I am, I don't them to know just how unstrong I really am inside!

Tahnks for listening!

Good wishes and the best to you, Will's Mom, especially! I pray that you get the justice you and Will deserve!!!! There are some good judges out there, there has to be!

Hugs to everyone here!

Sue

[chels1003]

Sue, what you have gone through with the courts is ridiculous. It seems so unfair to have the charges dropped to nearly nothing.

I completely understand how you feel about not doing enough, not feeling good enough as a mom, a parent. Some, if not most of us here have been beating ourselves up a great deal over those sorts of feelings. I have a hard time feeling like I can be there as a good mom for my other 2 young children I failed Kris so horribly. It’s a struggle and I am working through it as best I can.

Please do not be so hard on yourself. I know it’s not easy…You are not a failure. Your family will be whole as you carry the memories and love you feel for Josh. The more you hurt and hold it inside, the more the rest of your family will hurt for you. It will manifest and present in ways that will make it harder to move on. Trust me. I am going through it too. It’s been nearly 3 years and I am just now realizing the more I talk about how I feel, everyone else does as well and it helps…it’s not always easy. But it’s a part of the process.

I also truly believe that there is a higher justice in life. I also strongly know as a rule, not belief, that you are given back in life that which you put forth.

My deposition was a month ago. I have not called since. It’s not because I don’t care. I care a great deal. The night before, when we sat down to meet, questions were asked about what will happen. All I want is an apology. It is all I want. All I can hope to get out of going through the court system is money if we “win”. Money isn’t going to bring Kristian back. And I was promised I will never get the apology I am looking for.

I am going to see this through. Following through will only ensure that the doctors who failed my daughter will not want another mom like me biting at their throats for answers again. If having the docs worry about lawsuits and the whole nine makes sure that another person following in my footsteps through the doors of their practice gets them the help they need and deserve, then WE WIN. Going through this hell will be worth it. Our case will be another notch in the baby steps it is taking to get some desperately needed healthcare reforms in the HMO system.

I will always for eternity carry the words of the doctors with me. Words that make me burn and seethe with loathing, contempt and unadulterated hate inside at their arrogance, dismissal and ignorance of Kristian’s precious beautiful life and spirit.

Words I hope for so long as they live, remember as well. Words I hope they have a hard time tossing and turning over trying to forget but can’t. If I ever find it within me to forgive as generously as my little girl did, their ignorance, it would be worth far more than any bank could ever supply. THAT would be justice. KNOWING they are losing as much sleep as I am.

Allyson, this is especially for you, my fight also includes making clear that there should be no generalized “standards” of care. That gets me in a way I can’t tell you and sends me into a fury. How dare anyone put a “standard of care” for medical treatment on a childs life. HOW DARE ANYONE! The so called “standard of care” is what took my little girl’s life from me.

Forever, I am so sorry and upset about the ignorance and cop out excuse you were given by the defense. Incomprehensible. Everyone drives on the wrong side of the road sometimes?

I was told no one thinks a child could ever have a serious life threatening illness, including doctors, although that is their job, to make that distinction, and would never intend for them to die. And we as parents are persecuted for being angry over a simple “lack of judgment”. A “mistake”. And so called “accidents”

But children do become ill. Their lives can be taken if no one takes precautions.

Please, spare me. As I’ve posted before, words of wisdom shared with me by another mom, for different reasons, in a previous time in my life, to be aware is to be alive. That is why I will never forget them.

I’ve learned so much on this site. And I am changing for the better for all that is shared here.

Stay strong and keep fighting for what you believe in. Some day it WILL make a difference in saving lives.

[joshsmom]

chels1003,

Thankyou for posting back to me, I understand what your saying and it means aot to me!

I pray for you to also get through this with the best possible outcome! I truly understand the importance of an apology! After what your family and Kris went through, I can't fathom that the doctors would hold out and not give you the words you deserve to hear! That's all your asking for and of course, that's what they wont give you!!

Part of the reason also for the charges being reduced down so much in our case was just another blow to us in all of this.....the coroner, who to this day has been nothing but unprofessional beyond beleif, didn't store the samples taken from Josh to prove the Methedone concentration was an amount high enough to cause his death, properly! After waiting almost 4 months for the results of these tests, we were told that the samples were ruined. Josh was cremated and she knew this, and so we also wonder who she was protecting! In the end, after 19 months of the court crap, we were told that the kid's attorney would likely have the test results thrown out, and this was basiclly out whole case. Without the proof of Methedone causing this, we had nothing.

Another mistake in the so-called medical field!

And this women, the coroner for our entire county, still has a job! If I had my way, I would have gone further and seen her fired, but I know in this county, that would never happen!

I look so forward to seeing Joshua again, and I will do everything I have to to live out my life the right way so that we will be reunited again!

i am so thankful also for this site and I know that I would never have gotten even to this point, without the words and stories I've read here! I know I am not alone in this grief, and that helps me!

Take care and thankyou again!

Sue Josh's Mom 4-Ever!

[foreverchanged]

I advise anyone who is dealing with the court system in the United States to do a search for their state or local Victim's Advocate Group. I didn't know about these people until our court day was upon us.

Also, if things are misreported, call your local television news channel or newspaper. Pick up the phone and make some noise. The squeaky wheel gets the attention.

We didn't know what we were suppose to do. We had no one guiding us. The Victim's Groups can do much to enlighten you. Hook up with them as early as possible.

I'm just sorry for everyone. I don't know if I could have handled knowing the awful truth of injustice early on in our grief. But, if I had, things may have turned out different in court.

It's just a shame that not only do parents have to face the loss of a child, but deal with the legal system, as well. You have to wear a cloak of armour to protect the wounds.

Sorry if I sound so bitter or matter of fact. It's just the way it is.

*This post was edited because it had too much of my personal information in it.

[joshsmom]

I just wanted to post and let you know that I have fianlly completed a Memorial site for my son, Josh!

Please visit it if you have time. It's nice to put a face to the person I write about so much!

Thankyou!

Josh's Mom (Sue)

[chels1003]

Forever, I am so sorry to hear about your cousin. You are absolutely right on commenting about how we raise our children to respect the very authority that has no regard for them when it serves the “authority” better to be in the “right”. I’m not saying it’s always the case…Most of the time, it isn’t.

Aside from what we are dealing with now, I can recount many, many times I’ve had to step down and let authority take over…In fact it’s part of the reason I had to move to NY from my hometown. My ex stalked us constantly and after sending him to jail 9 times for various reasons, he gave me the last straw and I had no choice…I had to leave the state. The police at the time said there was nothing more they could do for me. I had to move as far away as I could, and I finally got what I wanted, I was finally far away, but at a cost…

Looking back it almost seems like a precursor. .My children’s doctor knew them well and truly cared… Had I never had to leave…. I’ll always wonder…. Call me stupid, but I never thought it would be so cold and uncaring here. I was so trusting…considering all I had known at that point.

And I still cannot believe the words you had to hear about the driver that hit your son from that disgusting lawyer. Hand held phones are supposed to be illegal here…yet you see people all the time, time and time again, every day holding the wheel in one hand and a phone in the other….

There is so much crap on the news that makes no sense…and most times people just sit there and take it as is. Oh well, glad it wasn’t me, poor them. They sit and tune in like robots…If they are really listening at all.

I truly wish there were a way the few of us could reach out to the masses and wake them out of the desensitized stupor the media has hypnotized them into and join the real world.

Forever, I hope that by publicizing what happened to your cousin gets the attention of real people. That you get the investigation into what happened that needs to happen, that should have begun without having to raise the issue. I sincerely wish you never had to fight for the justice you absolutely deserved for your son because of another’s negligence…

What you’ve shared is upsetting and disturbing.

My heart goes out to you.

[willsmom]

Have a little question to pose to you guys...After the deposition was done of the OB in my case, I have become quite disillusioned with this whole case...as you all know, so I have contacted another law firm to over-view my case. Just to check out what has been done or is not being done. I also have contacted an echocardiogram school and posed the question of how full proof an echo., would have been in my situation. Question is: Am I being a bitch? I kinda feel like a sneak, but I am in this for Will; not some cap on some insurance policy from some doctor, who obviously screwed me over and took away Will's chance to make it. Am I doing the right thing?? WillsMom~~Allyson

[foreverchanged]

WillsMom

My opinion is that you are being smart. Just keep in mind that whoever looks over your case will probably most definately tell you what they could do better. (They want your business, of course.)

They might possibly do it better. Or, they might not and changing around attornies might slow down the case. Just go with your gut, sister. Geez, I wish I had thought of that in our case. Hindsight. It'll bite you in the rear every time.

FC

[chels1003]

Allyson, you and I are both dealing with civil suits….I am on my second law firm….Here in NY you only have 2 years from the last date of diagnosis to file a claim. If you are seriously considering changing lawyers…do it sooner than later.

If anyone cared from the get go, my Kris would have had a fighting chance…There would be no law suit….I’d sleep peacefully every night knowing the doctors cared as much as I did. Would have done as much for her as I would have had I the education at my hands that they had at the time……….Instead I am going to school to learn what I wish I had known then what I know now.

I know they did not care. The more I learn, the more I know it to be true….what I learned in medical terminology alone would put the doctors to shame……..A mere dictionary…. As a result I will never sleep peacefully...not ever. I will spend the rest of my life trying…

For going to a second law firm…no. you’re not being sneaky….you are fighting for Will, your son. Your flesh and blood. To hell with what anyone thinks….Do anything and everything it takes to make EVERYONE listen.

The more all hear, the more we shout, the less likely another child will go unheard.

[willsmom]

Wow---i am so impresed by both answers....I got the transcripts from the depositions of the "doctor"---I thought I would be sad...or filled with fear....BUT... I am so MAD...I mean, I am pissed---she is not only a liar, but a smooth one...she is just sh*t---My boy should be here, and she knows it. I would make things right, if I was her...she must be weak, or stupid---sorry, just being me....I am just mad---in the worst way. I cannot stand a liar. I am just me, missing my baby boy--who would be coming up on two shortly....6 months---OH--Ryan said 7---depends on how you count....How sad. Love and Peace to all---WillsMom~~Allyson

[willsmom]

Short and brief--anyone know anything about Zoloft?? Got put on it, and I was just wondering...Hope everything is well and peaceful..and to all who are fighting...Let us win for our babys' and our children. God Bless us all!!! WillsMom~~Allyson

OH--Try and enjoy your weekend, or atleast let it be kind to you all!! AB

[foreverchanged]

Zoloft gave me headaches. I hope you have better luck with it. Everyone is different, so it was probably just me.

[chels1003]

Call me a jerk, but I know for a fact that the defense attorneys have chased me down here at Beyond.

I had expressed my worries with the forum keepers. I decided I have the right to speak my mind.

How I feel. As all of us here should have that right.

Yet, I worry when we speak so freely about all we are dealing with.

Keep that in mind.

[willsmom]

I have had the same worry/thoughts after my OB's depo. was taken because they asked her point back if she had discussed it on the internet...but the way I feel about it is that we are under no gag order, we are hurting, we have no clue what is going on and lean on each other for the help and the advice, and support. We need that. I will heed the warning on speaking a little to freely...good advice---See there, my point proven!! LOL~~ Hope your Sunday is nice to you; and the work week short! WillsMom~~Allyson

Oh--and you are not a jerk, your smart.

[foreverchanged]

Yes, please be mindful of the details you put out for the world to see. As nice as this place is, someone on the other side of the world can read it. Don't put it past a scumbag lawyer to use anything they can find.

[chels1003]

Thanks for agreeing with me. I want the best for all of us here. I mean that.

I received a copy of my deposition to review late last week. I was asked point blank if I were discussing anything on the internet. AT that point it had been months since I had been here and didn't think anything of it when I answered no. Then I panicked a few days later......Then I said to hell with it... When I talk about how I feel...there is no reason for me to be ashamed or worried. I lost my little girl. I've been angry, upset, confused and hurt for years now.

If the other side would like to argue my god given emotions with me, let them have at it with all they can throw at me. If they didn't see their own child suffer a horrific, agonizing death, they have no right to penalize, condescend or patronize me. No right whatsoever.

Yet of course, being they are paid to do so, they can and will do so freely at any and all costs. They have nothing to lose.

At this point, neither do I. My heart is broken beyond any other pain I will or could ever know. Nothing else could hurt worse than losing her.

I am no longer the person I used to be.

I am expected to understand that everyone is merely human...mistakes can be made. That no one could have or would have wanted or anticipated the worst...So did I. So did Kris. Did we get that? If we had, would I be here right now?

I once trusted in the same and demand from everyone else what they demand of me....

Understanding....

I am demanding that my daughters life be taken seriously. She had so much to give this world. She was terrified of dying. She did not want to die.

She chose life until the very end. Her body gave way before her will to live ever did.

While the lawyers hash over her "quality of life", it's the one thing I can't ever forget.

She made the best of the worst thrown at her without complaint. It's hard to follow in her footsteps.

Thanks for hearing me out.

My best wishes and blessings to everyone here.

[willsmom]

I am in total awe---Chels---you are EXTREMELY intelligent; and I loved every word...You are exactly what I want to be...You have no idea how highly I think of everything you said and feel...You are me. I can only pass my best thoughts to you---My family flips out at my nerve and strength...I flip out at yours. Stay strong and know you have a silent little friend...always pushing you; like you need it...LOL-I admire you...I hope you toss some of that nerve my way. You are a wonderful Mother and fighter!!! In only the best way, WillsMom~~Allyson

[ribitsmom]

I have been gone from this site for a while, so will start by saying I have missed all of you.

Chels1003: When you said "No, you haven't posted on the internet" you were correct; I know that Chels1003 has posted, because I have read it, but I assume that the lawyers don't know you by Chels1003 and let them prove that is you. BI is NOT going to give other info about you to lawyers, so you did not lie.

It is true, we should watch what we say and how we say it, I have had this concern from the beginning. I don't want to give too many details...however, I have never come on line and wrote that my lawyers are going with this tactic or that, I have said, "This is what happened, and this is how I feel about it". That can not be damaging to our cases. It is public knowlege that our children died and how they died, we should be able to type that on the internet, it is also obvious that we should be mad, sad, hurt and so forth...so what if we put that on the internet.

[ribitsmom]

For me: Our depo's are to start in a couple weeks, the RR has been coming up with excuses for more than a year now and they have finally been tied to a date...I am getting nervous. It has been 2 years and almost 7 months since the accident, how much of these depo's are going to be reliable, who can remember details that long and not have it confused with what they have told themselves since then, or confused with things they have heard from others. The emotiion will be gone from many that will be depo'd at this point...it isn't fresh anylonger. I know myself that I have twisted things, things I remember with things I was told. I don't remember time tables, I don't remember who told me what, all I remember is that I now have a huge emptiness in my heart, I should be seeing my daughter fall in love and get married, I should have been able to see my daughter struggle with what school she would go to, what degree she would go for, I shouldn't be seeing my son go through the depression he is going through, I shouldn't have to worry if my son is making choices about his life because he feels he needs to fill both his shoes and his sisters shoes in our lives.

Then your suit $$$ are based on the "earning potential" of the loved one lost, well she was only 17 yrs old. She wanted to be a fashion designer, she was very artistic and LOVED fashion, but she was also brilliant. My husband owns a business that she could have very easily stepped into with her mind...how do we know where she would be if she had survived? She could have been president one day for all I know.

I am with everyone else, I don't want the money...but, I don't want an appology either, I want them to hurt, and as I see it, the only way they will hurt is if I hit the pocket book. Thats what they care about...so that is where I will hurt them.

Sorry, can you see my anger?

How many come to this site after everything is said and done? I assume that we will be told not to discuss this after the case, so does that mean that I won't be able to come back to this site?

[chels1003]

Ribitsmom, you are right. I wasn't discussing what was going on with what my lawyers were saying or doing...just me ranting and raving. Which, again, is my right to do so.

To be honest, whether we like it or agree, I truly believe our lawyers do not tell us as much as we'd like them to, merely to protect us from ourselves for this very reason. As frustrating as it has been so far, I can stand behind and respect that.

When you are going through your deposition, don't answer any question unless you remember exactly what you KNOW happened. If it's fuzzy, even slightly, times, dates, who said what, when and where, don't give an answer, simply say you don't remember. It's not a test. They already know the times and dates. That is what you should NOT forget. Do not answer any questions that are not clear and fresh in your mind at that moment. Trust me. If it comes to you later, fine, make a mental note and CALL your lawyer. you are not a machine. You are a human being.

Be sure to let them finish the questions before you answer. Just walk in and out of there with the full knowledge that they already know all the answers to the questions they'll ask you. You were called in merely to confirm what they already know.

And the emotions will not be gone. I felt them....You will feel them too. Don't show them. Save your emotions for the people who truly care.

Be calm, keep a glass of water in front of you and take a few deep breaths every now and then. Stay calm. It's to their advantage if they get a rise out of you. You will be fine.

You are right about the money... I was told quite bluntly, and it killed me for a bit, the only thing my lawyer can get for me is money. I can't expect apologies , or admissions of fault. So yes, while I don't care about the money, I'm fighting because it is what's right, in the end it will make a difference whether I win this case or not.

I have faith in that.

I'm still here now. I'll be here when our case is over.

Allyson, thank you so much.. how many times have you heard how "strong you are" from everyone and wondered what the hell they are talking about? On the outside it might seem as though that's how it is. On the inside? Different story. How often do you find yourself crying in your own lap because no one else can truly comprehend what is REALLY going on inside? And it's not as if they wouldn't truly empathize. You simply feel it's your job to protect them from what you really feel?

Perhaps we all do the same?

[ribitsmom]

Chels1003: I think I gave the wrong impression and I am sorry. I won't be depo'd as far as I know...at this point. The RR and a couple of people that may or may not have seen the kids prior to the accident...one may be my son, he was supposedly the last to see Bridge and talk to the driver of the vehicle on the phone (gave directions). At this point, we don't believe my son will be depo'd either, nothing has been mentioned.

The owner of the vehicle's insur. company is trying to prove that the owner was not driving and throwing a bit of a kink in the time table, they now want to do DNA to be able to say the owner was not driving. It really makes no sense, they just want less responsiblity, less % of the blame. None of the 4 kids had been drinking or on drugs (proven), 3 of 4 were thrown from vehicle, so they are trying to say that the other boy that was thrown was the driver, instead of the owner. They know my daughter wasn't driving, for one thing she couldn't drive a stick, for another, the damage to bodies shows she was on the other side of the car.

Anyway, too much going on now. I am sure everything I just typed makes no sense to anyone but me. Sorry.

[willsmom]

Hello All---Just checking in with everyone...Noone has posted, so I can only picture the B.S. we all are going through...Please touch base, as I wonder and check on you all every couple of days....Only the best to all of you...and check in---for goodness sake.....Bossy, I know. I just care. WillsMom~~Allyson

[ribitsmom]

Well, my son talked to our lawyer yesterday, on the phone. My son was the last to talk to the kids prior to the accident, so he is obviously one that will be questioned.

What this did for me was prove that waiting 2.5 yrs after the accident to get to the bottom of things is too long. You forget things, I was listening to my son talk and was coaching (I know, bad mom). But I remembered things that he forgot, things that he told me, that he wasn't telling the lawyer.

I don't know if it was difficult, I don't think I would use that word...we have been through things that have been more difficult than this, but what it did was bring it in our face, things are starting to "heat up" and we are getting closer to the end, of course, "the end" isn't going to be for another year, at least.

[willsmom]

Hey---I find nothing wrong with a little coaching...My, goodness Denise---ALL of you are going to have to rely on one another....You hang tough---because to to be quite blunt, you are headed for a rough and difficult time....and remembering is going to be a bastard anyway. I am here...and still have no date to be deposed...what is up with that? Mind games....they can play them forever....it changes nothing, and try and remember that...if you don't remember, I would directly say---If this was done much ealier, I could answer ALL your questions....They are pigs, and how anyone lives with themselves...KNOWING they are wrong is past me. You stay in there...and remember what you all can...I send you peace...and memories, even if they hurt, they may help---stay strong.....WillsMom

[ribitsmom]

Thanks Allyson

[joshsmom]

WillsMom and RibitsMom,

I give you both so much credit for waiting and waiting for all this time!

I didn't have to go through depos, but our family did endure the court system and all that entails!

We had to go through so much as far as being failed by the Coroner and the fact that samples that were taken from Josh to prove the methedone alone, caused his death, were not stored properly and ultimately, after 19 months of waiting for court, we were told they would most likely not be allowed in as evidence. That was our whole case! Granted the kid still got a year in jail but was only charged with distributing! That's a far cry from first degree reckless homocide.

I still feel, in my heart, that even though Josh did take these 2 pills, he was forced into that decision that night because this kid was out trying to sell them! My son didn't go looking for him or his pills....he was having fun at the fair in town! I just am sick at the fact that his death in all of this was lost somewhere!

All I can say is, the courts and the waiting gave us something to focus on, and now that it's done, I feel very empty and very much alone again! I feel like Josh's life was not important enough! I feel like a failure also! I just don't understand why any of this has had to happen to any one of us! As our 2 year mark appoaches, I can't help but realize that this life I'm living right now is what I have to look forward to! The only thing giving me hope now is my older son, but he has also been through so much! All of us are such different people now! It's really very sad!

I just wanted to let you both know that I do know what your going through and I understand you pain and frustration!

Just be as strong as you can be and hopefully it will all be over soon!

Hugs to you both,

Josh's Mom

[ribitsmom]

Thanks Josh's Mom (Sue),

I understand the "empty" feeling after the case was over, we haven't finished yet, but we have gone through VERY long moments of nothing happening. When we first started it was something to keep our minds off the loss, something to sink our teeth into, then it went into a time that nothing at all was happening, then pick up a bit, then nothing again...now, I feel that we are in the final stretch; this may be wrong, but things are picking up full strength now, so I assume that this case is the full focus of all the law firms involved (which are many).

We don't know at this point if someone didn't do the job right, other than the fact that it "looked" like the kids went around the arm, but without the RR complying to demands, it was "undetirmined/inconclusive". This was in the very beginning, within the first couple of months of the accident, and this was the police department doing the reconstruction...since then it has been done over and over, by experts and looks as though the first conclusion was incorrect. In our case, I can't say that anyone was incompatant, I honestly think that this was such a huge thing that no one knew how to handle it. This is just my thoughts, the feeling I got from people involved, even the news crews.

[foreverchanged]

Ribitsmom

I understand how you feel about the coaching thing. Many, many our surviving child recounted to us shortly after the accident simply disappeared from her mind. Part of it, I beleive, was just the mind's way of protecting and allowing healing to take place. It is such a difficult place to be in when you need the help of your surviving child who is living in their own hell. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone in your family.

[chels1003]

Hi, I had posted a couple days ago, I guess it didn’t take.

Ribitsmom, I had just wanted to tell you the same thing. That I don’t think you did anything wrong by “coaching”. I agree completely with you Forever, that our kids do protect themselves.

I’m also here today because I feel horrible. I finished going over my deposition. It brings up so much. And for me, it also brings up my father who shot himself nearly 2 weeks after he learned of my daughter having cancer. I guess this may not be the place for it, but it is a part of all we had gone through, including Kris. She knew what he had done.

I’m grateful for her strength and dignity and still wish, even this very second that I had even a fraction of that same strength and dignity for myself. To top it off, I’ve lashed out against a family member over my father’s death and regret it deeply. I don’t regret feeling, I just regret sharing it in the way that I have. I can’t take it back and have to make it right again.

Being that so much has been lost already, my first instinct is to just let go and hang on to the anger as justifiably as I can. My rational self knows that is childish. The rest of us still here should not have to hurt any more than we already do.

I don’t know. Each time I make a step forward, lately, it’s almost as if I deliberately kick myself and everyone around me to fall a few hundred miles behind. It’s not my intention. My mouth opens and feelings come vomiting out. Raw, unadulterated. I am too tired to side skirt and do what it takes to cushion the blow for everyone around me when I feel as though I am living in hell. There is no more control.

In some ways it’s selfish, yet in many ways it is not.

I’m open to suggestions.

Take care

[ribitsmom]

ForeverChanged, I feel for your family too...how awful for you and your daughter, obviously she will live with being the witness to the accident, buy you, as the mom, will also suffer for knowing that she is going to have that with her forever. Thank you for understanding.

chels1003: I think that we all need to be selfish once in a while, when dealing with the things we are dealing with, who can blame us? I am sorry about your father, during such a difficult time in your lives, I would assume that your anger and grief needed to be put on a back burner while your child was ill, you should be able to rant and rave now if you want...if you don't feel it is fair to do this with other family members (due to them hurting also) then rant here...we will listen and comfort. Saying you are sorry (to the one you lashed out to) is painless and can help heal many wounds and allows you to clear the air...I believe most would understand if you lash out every once in a while...you have had a lot on your plate. I wish you peace.

[willsmom]

JoshsMom: I have been computer-less for several days, due to little boys messing with this poor thing...but that is pointless.

When I read your post I was struck, because I too, am so focused on what is going on and when it is going on and how I am going to make everyone suffer for the death of Will; I fear, it to be in vain. I mean, I know it serves a purpose and it is a path I must take, but I am like you in that I already fear, when it is all said and done...How will I really feel? It will change nothing, fix nothing, and I will neve get Will back. I am afraid of that emptiness. I wonder if I will feel any better...I doubt it now, so I can only assume I feel even worse when all of this is finally over. I would like to pick your brain on this, I don't want to make you focus on anything bad, but just how do you handle the feelings? Do you think everyone feels like when they fight for the loss of any person, they feel as though it is really pointless, because you will never really "have" that person~~I am just sad and worried. I often think I have bitten off more than I can chew, but then I think of Will, and I become enraged. Geez--what a mess.

I just wanted to let you know you are not alone in your thoughts/feelings because I am not even done and I am wondering all the same things. It is a vicious circle. The Head Cardiologist gets deposed on the 23rd of May, and I was glad to see that happening...another hurdle. We have yet to be called. I don't know why, seems strange to me that the "OB" was deposed and now the Cardio. guy, but not us....Who knows.

I hope all is well with you and you are doing okay...I send you peace. Best Regards, WillsMom~~Allyson

[joshsmom]

Ribit's Mom and Will's Mom,

I appreciate you posting, and I hope I wans't out of line by making it sound like after all we go through, it's not worth it, beleive me, anything that kid would have gotten, besides nothing, made it worth it. He is now sitting in jail, which I am sure, for him, is a peice of cake, because he is just like everyone else in there and he really doesn't have a homelife to miss out on, so jail for him, I'm sure, is nothing major. He will do his year and then skid by on pure luck, I'm sure, when the ptobation starts. To think that he wont ever, in 5 years, do any drugs or drink any alcohol, we all know that is just stupid!

The court system is so overloaded that they wont even take the time to worry if he is or not. If by chance he does get caught, he is supposed to go to prison for the initial charges that he plea bargained to. I know that also would not happen. He would go in front of the judge again, and they would find a reason to dismiss what he did! That's what happened before. They dismissed every charge against him except the one that carried the least time! Everything else was dismissed!

We have to live with that, and right now I'm glad he's gone from here so that maybe after the year is over, my other son and all of Josh's friends will have let some of their anger go so that I don't have to worry about them taking revenge against this kid. I know they all want to! It's not what i want! I just want him to go away!

Our lives were forever changed when he made the decision that night to walk up to Josh and offer him those 2 Methedone pills. I live with that everyday! But I also know that Josh is still, very much, a part of our lives and inside of me! I have gotten so many signs to reassure me of this and I will not let him down by giving up and letting this grief take me! I would love to be able to just lay down and not get back up, but I also can't do that to my husband and older son. We all miss Josh and I would be very selfish to engulf myself in pity and not continue to try and make a life for us as a family still!

Josh wants that too! I don't want him to feel sadness and hurt over what happened. It was an accident on his part! I have kind of come to a conclusion as to why he needed to try those pills and it makes alot of sense to me, and it concerns him living through the snomobile accident when he was 12 years old.

Anyway,

I've rambled on again, but in all of this, my point is, it is all worth it because we are doing everything in our power to get justice for our kids! That is the most we can do for them now! If in the end, it doesn't work out the way we dreamed it would, we still know that we did our best! We held together and we stood up, proud for them!

I think the emptiness was always there, how can it not be, just after everything is over, you just have more time to focus on it! I guess that's my choice sometimes, and i will have to remind myself not to do it!

Josh is all around me, I just have to stop and feel him!

Hugs to all of you!

Kris's Mom,

hang in there, your fight too is worth it! She deserves that!!!!! What she endured was awful, but our kids are strong! Stronger than us sometimes! Remember that! They also love us as much as we love them!!!

Take Care!

[willsmom]

JoshsMom---I read your post and it got me to thinking, that when this SOB gets out and is on probation, you could demand he be surprised drug tested, for everything. My ex-sister in law will randomly test my brother in law. She requests it, and it is done. I wonder if you would have that right. I would find out who is probation officer will be and find out if you can't make this demand, or simply plead your case...and he/she may listen. You can make life rough for this kid the rest of his life, or atleast five years of it. I hate to sound vengeful, but his punishment does not fit his crime...so~~I would keep him under a watchful eye...and I bet you a hundred bucks, he will use within 6 weeks of getting out---I maybe wrong, he may completely turn his life around, but his background, his indifference...he'll go back to some substance and that is when you can slide in there, and off to prison he goes. A harsh and mean outlook, I know, and may God forgive me, but losing a child will make you that way. Apolgies, if I have come on to strong...Chalk it up to the anger in me...WillsMom~~Allyson

[joshsmom]

Will's Mom,

Thanks for the advice! I expect that my older son and Josh's friends will be ever watchful once this kid is back out on the streets. Chances are, if he's thinking, which knowing him, I doubt, he will leave this part of town where he wont be "watched over" so carefully!

The District Attorney told us that if we ever saw him in a bar, drinking, we could call too, but this unfortunately is a small town and he was born here, his family goes way back in this area. We are not from here, and i think that plays a big part when it comes down to it.

I will take your advice though and if I hear that he hasn't changed his ways, I will see if this can be done!!!

I hope your doing OK!

Glad you got the computer back working! I had to laugh when I read that it was down due to little hands!!!

Take Care,

Sue

[willsmom]

Hey Sue---He may hit the road for awhile...but he will be back...these type of people always come back...As you said, let the boys keep an eye out..and the DA's number would be in my wallet...and theirs...I re-read my posts and surprise myself how cut-throat I have become. I just cannot stand the injustice that goes on....I am thinking of you...WillsMom~~Allyson

[joshsmom]

Will's Mom,

I think we all have a hard edge now! Unfortunately it comes out because when it all comes down to it, we are Mom's protecting our kids, still! I will always be there to defend Josh and what happened! I have to! I am his Mom! Just like you with Will! When it comes to them, we will do anything now! I know I have become alot harder! I think it's a shield so we can keep away more pain!

thankyou so much for the posts! I really appreciate the support and knowing that I am not alone! Although, lately I had been feeling that way!

May 31st, will be the second Angel Date for Josh. I used to love the Spring and this time of year, I still do, but it brings with it so much saddness and reget too!

Putting the numbers in our wallets is a great idea and I will do that!!!!!

Hugs to you!!

Sue

[willsmom]

JoshsMom--I will be thinking of you on the 31st, with the most sincern and heart felt emotion...I will pray for you to have some kind of peace on Josh's second year away. Will's second year date is not until Oct., and I wish him here everyday, as I know you do for Josh also. It is just so unfair, but I have to say we have fought the good fight for our boys and I know they know that...I hope Easter is kind to you. I have been dreading it, just because it is such a young child holiday....but what holiday is any fun anymore anyway?None of them. I send you good thoughts and know I am here...I will be in touch and you do the same. Try and enjoy the Easter weekend--Yuck---Take care and type...WillsMom~~Allyson

[sameersmom]

My son died on the 17th of March on the first evening of spring break and this has been heartrending. his older brother who is a senior in high school had his cumlaude initiation on Tuesday and we all felt guilty that we were there and Sameer was not.

I am humbled by the posts on this board.

i am mad because the driver had been drinking and there was marijuana use at the birthday party they were at- one which was supervised by parents ( physician incidentally).

The police report was that speed and not alcohol was a factor. The kid was not taken to the ER for a tox screen and the parents had the school issues a note saying there was no alcohol even though he failed the roadside sobriety and was positive on a delayed breath test.

The juvenile courts will give this kid who had alcohol in the car probation for 11 months in all likelihood and the kids at this prep school who all know that there was alcohol and pot will likely think that they did nothing wrong.

Sameers mom

[sameersmom]

My son died on the 17th of March on the first evening of spring break and this has been heartrending. his older brother who is a senior in high school had his cumlaude initiation on Tuesday and we all felt guilty that we were there and Sameer was not.

I am humbled by the posts on this board.

i am mad because the driver had been drinking and there was marijuana use at the birthday party they were at- one which was supervised by parents ( physician incidentally).

The police report was that speed and not alcohol was a factor. The kid was not taken to the ER for a tox screen and the parents had the school issues a note saying there was no alcohol even though he failed the roadside sobriety and was positive on a delayed breath test.

The juvenile courts will give this kid who had alcohol in the car probation for 11 months in all likelihood and the kids at this prep school who all know that there was alcohol and pot will likely think that they did nothing wrong.

Sameers mom

[willsmom]

Hi--sameersmom---you are new here...and we ALL are willing to give advice and help...I am so sorry; your grief is new---VERY new....I really do not know what you are asking...do you feel there is fault? Do you feel you should demand answers? I am unclear; but I can assure you, that you are numb...Numb to the pain...it might take you awhile to sort things out. When my son died, it took me awhile to start searching. I am not being bossy, or rude...but you may need to just deal with what has happened. My son died on Oct. 8th 2004---and it took me atleast 3 months before I started searching and demanding answers. If you are ready to figure it all out---we are here...No doubt. Give yourself time---or not---either way...I or anyone here will lend advice and help. I will send you prayers, and I am so sorry for your loss. Please know that. WillsMom~~Allyson

[sameersmom]

Thank you Willsmom. I am new to this and we have been desperately asking for answers. The boy who was driving the car never came to us and said sorry, but ,this is what happened that night and that has been hard. The parents have had lawyers insulate him so much so that the boy has never apologised to us face to face and sent us a card 3 weeks after the accident.

It is hard to not see your son who was tall and cheerful and full of life . It is hard to look at the piano and not hear the notes of cold play which resonated through the house. he was an ace drummer and guitarist as well and the silence is the most telling.

You were not rude or bossy. I know that I need answers and we are pushing everyone we can to get these answers and hoping that the legal system helps us. The police never had toxicology done on the driver and did not have him taken for the breath test for 2 hours despite having a failed sobriety test. I am reaching out to anyone who can offer me any advice or help. Thank you for your respnse.

[willsmom]

Sameersmom--you story is a rough one, and the silence you speak of us was heart-breaking. I am so sorry. I love Coldplay...and I am 37..Your son sounds like a(n) talented, awesome boy. I would do some research, gather medical records, police reports, photos, accindent reports...the toxicology report...all of it--any of it. I would simply read it over myself, I found most of the mistakes in my son's care on my own. Once you review all of it and it is a horrible thing to do...I read 711 pages in 24 hours---You make your decision on what to do and how to do it. As I said, you are still so new to this horrible situation and loss; that I would take it as you feel like it. I was so angry, and wanted answers...I just threw myself into it, but it was about three months after Will had passed...Take your time, be good to yourself and most of all just breathe....

From what you have told me, the kid sounds like he was drunk, and his parents know it..and are covering for him---get all the info., you can when you can or feel you can. If you feel you cannot review it, go on and hire an attorney to do it, especially if you feel something is wrong. They all work on contingency, especially if they feel there was wrong-doing....I will let you think, and do whatever works for you....either way, I am here and listening. WillsMom~~Allyson

[ribitsmom]

I agree with Willsmom (Allyson), hire an attorney. If the drinking and pot smoking happened under the parents roof (the party house) then they can be found guilty also. An attorney can help you weed through all of this, they are in it for the money so will help you find the people responsible. I also wonder if the police dpt can be found guilty of "looking the other way" or not being timely.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I would type more but have stitches in tip of finger and it is difficult.

[willsmom]

What'd ya do to the finger?? Kinda a dumb question to ask, since it hurts to type...but just curious---Hope all is well with you and Easter is easy...I am dreading it--- Allyson

[joshsmom]

Sameer's Mom,

Iwould like to just start out by saying, I know what your going through and I understand and send hugs to you!

My son Josh was given 2 Methedone pills by another kid, at the time, both were just 16! The pills were the kid's Mother's perscription drugs and she sent him out to sell them for money.

I want to say that Josh passed away on May31, 2004, and we didn't get closure with the courts until January 3, 2006. Just because it seems like they aren't following through on things right now, don't get too discouraged because chances are, they are working on it and things will continue to happen as time goes on. The kid in our situation was evenentually waived into Adult Court. He ended up plea bargaining in the end, but did get 1 year in jail and will have 5 years probation afte that where he can't do any drugs or have any alcohol at all. If he gets caught with anything in the 5 years, he loses his plea bargain and goes to prison for the initial charge of 1st Degree Reckless Homocide.

Hang in there and try to be patient, as hard as that is, you will most likely be in for a wait on this!

Keep your eyes and ears open and have others do the same, because you may hear things that wont be told to you! I know we heard that this kid was caught again selling the Methedone after Josh died! No one told us, we heard it from Josh's friends. It came up in court and I feel it is the only reason he did get any time in jail! If we wouldn't have known this and brought it to the DA's attention they may have not even brought it up in court!

I hope that you find some comfort here, knowing that we all are going through losing a child and we are here for you!

Take Care!!

Will's Mom,

Try not to let the Easter Holiday get you down to much.....I know that Josh will be eating his traditional Chocolate Easter Bunny (Ears bitten off first, of course!), just like he always did and enjoying every single bite!

Love to you this weekend!

Stay strong!

Sue

[ribitsmom]

Allyson,

finger is feeling better, tender but not too bad, now that I have been working all day (on computer). I am loading up the 5th wheel and bought new steak knives and while trying to open package I slipped...not very bright. Actually, the tetnus shot I got hurts worse, almost.

Sameers Mom,

I don't know all the details, but it sounds as though there is quite a bit of alternatives for you. I am not sure I agree with waiting until you feel up to it, as things tend to be forgotten after time passes, not by you, but by others that can be of help to you.

Not only that, but for me, the persuit of "justice" allowed me to focus on something other than my grief.

Each "case" is going to be different, for Sue (Josh's Mom)it took 1 year, for Will's Mom (Allyson) it looks as though it will be a different amount of time (she is still in the process) for us it has already been 2.5 yrs and it will be at least another year before we see the end to this. My thought is that you need to start as soon as possible, while you and everyone else remembers everything and it will also allow an end to happen sooner.

This is just my opinion and what has worked for us, each of us needs to do what is comfortable for them. After reading your posts I am not sure that you were planning to persue this in a legal sense.

And to all, happy holidays...again. Seems like that is all that ever happens anymore, birthdays, special days...they get old. I'm all for paid days off though. Both my husband and I have to travel for work next week (all week) so it will be a crazy weekend trying to get ready for the trip and have the holiday at our house for everyone.