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Kelly

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This space is to talk about other beliefs other than Chrisitanity on what happens when you die.

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This isn't about any particular belief about continuing life after physical death, but it IS about other beliefs in general when considering the grieving. I find it really distressing when people on boards (not even so much this one, as BI has a specific place for those who are Christian and want to talk about things in that context )just assume that everyone and his dog is of the Christian faith and load you up on scriptural passages, etc. Of course, they're just trying to be helpful, but most boards tell you upfront to try not to push your beliefs on others, just to keep it to what YOU believe, yet some people either don't read the rules, or ignore them....and it really ticks me off. Personally, I like belief systems that allow for many different faiths in general to participate in services and discussions. So far, I don't have a label for my belief system, which is still evolving. I find that most people can't STAND IT if you won't agree with everything in Christianity ( their particular version ) and are so offended at that, yet don't think that their PUSHING is offensive whatsoever! I'd do the same thing back at them, but that just wouldn't be......Christian!

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Does anyone out there know of any faith that DOESN'T put animals way down the totem pole, with humans at the very top as supposedly completely 'superior', and usually in a different 'class' that blows its own, high-fallutin' horn? Or in the realm of faiths thought up BY humans, is this an impossible hope? Is there no formal faith that follows, say, the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi? HELP!! I can't stand this human arrogance anymore!

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Alright, I have a question. I am doing my senior paper on children's near-death experiences. I have to make it controversial so i was wondering what different people beleive the things children see could be caused by. If anyone has any suggestions please email me or reply back!

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Hi Swede1,

So I will continue now, and I want to say thanks for listening. The first few times I had an OBE, I just examined my hand in front of me, trying to figure out what was going on. But later on I got smart, I actually started heading toward my ceiling and up and out I went towards the dark sky above. It happened very fast though, and in a very different state of consciousness. I remember looking down at the city and seeing all the lights all the while I was cruising along somehow. It was so amazing. All I kept saying to myself was WOOOWWW. I knew it was real. That wasn't all that happened, but I don't have much room. I would love to hear any experiences you've had too, if any?

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Care4u,

I don't know that I've had a real OBE, but I did go for hypnosis once and it ended up being about the same kind of experience, except it started out GUIDED. HOWEVER, I was WAY ahead of the guidance from the hypnotist, so in a way it was an involuntary 'trip'. Same kind of thing, where I started out in body, hovering above body, then into the sky, then into space, where I met up with my furchild ( who had passed ). What was interesting was that I just seemed to shoot up so quickly, far ahead of the hypnotist's 'instructions' ( left her in the dirt, so to speak ) and had my communication before she'd even got to that part. When you 've had these OBE's, have you seen anything that you could later verify was taking place, or was locatable ( like a landmark or something ) later? And do they just come involuntarily, or do you do something to 'bring them on'? BTW, you have ALL the room you want here to write -- you should SEE some of my earlier posts!!

What I've had more of, on my own, is ADC's, which you can find some recountings of under that forum...though they'd be buried quite a ways back, in the earlier parts of this year I think. ( too bad BI doesn't have that search feature for members' posts - I've requested it, but nothing's happened on their end yet )

Have you had or seen/heard any really accurate readings in your church?

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Care4u,

I don't know that I've had a real OBE, but I did go for hypnosis once and it ended up being about the same kind of experience, except it started out GUIDED. HOWEVER, I was WAY ahead of the guidance from the hypnotist, so in a way it was an involuntary 'trip'. Same kind of thing, where I started out in body, hovering above body, then into the sky, then into space, where I met up with my furchild ( who had passed ). What was interesting was that I just seemed to shoot up so quickly, far ahead of the hypnotist's 'instructions' ( left her in the dirt, so to speak ) and had my communication before she'd even got to that part. When you 've had these OBE's, have you seen anything that you could later verify was taking place, or was locatable ( like a landmark or something ) later? And do they just come involuntarily, or do you do something to 'bring them on'? BTW, you have ALL the room you want here to write -- you should SEE some of my earlier posts!!

What I've had more of, on my own, is ADC's, which you can find some recountings of under that forum...though they'd be buried quite a ways back, in the earlier parts of this year I think. ( too bad BI doesn't have that search feature for members' posts - I've requested it, but nothing's happened on their end yet )

Have you had or seen/heard any really accurate readings in your church?

Swede1,

I just figured out how to make the page longer. Boy, don't I feel silly. I think I knew what part of the city I was looking at during my first OBE, and during another one I ended up in by neighbours backyard with there two dogs. The dogs could see me and they weren't very friendly. I was quite frightened and very happy to get out of there. Everything seems to happen by thought. I just think myself somewhere else and whamo I'm there. I tend to cut my OBE's short by doing that. I think of when I am suppose to go back and then all of a sudden I find myself floating back into my body. I hate it when I do that.

I met up with my spirit guides quite a few times. When we talk it is all done by thought transference. I have six and they have quite the sense of humours.

But everything is so different and happens so fast that I don't think to ask knowledgeable questions. But I have found out how to do that without the OBE. I find that they happen right when I begin to fall asleep, but just before I get into a deep sleep. I just attended a mediumship development class yesterday through my church. It was so wonderful. I now know how to bring myself to the spirit level without having them have to lower their energy down to me. I asked my spirit guide to hold my hand and it was the neatest thing. I can now be closer to them without having to be half asleep. I can't believe how easy it was. Anybody can be close to spirit, they just have to do the work. If only people knew how easy it was, the world could be such a better place. We also did readings for each other in the group. The lady I gave a reading to found me to be quite accurate, and it made me feel so much more confident in trusting my gifts. But I need to keep working at it. There were quite a few people who were alot more developed than I am. It wasn't a reading of telling there future. We had actually asked loved ones from spirit to come through and I identified a man she knows and gave her a message from him. The room was full of so much love. The real trick is learning to trust your intuition and just speak out whatever comes to you in thought or feeling, but you have to bring your energy to there level first. It takes alot of practice. I want to join the weekly development group so I can develop my gifts more and be able to give proof to those who are suffering that indeed it is not the end. It makes me feel so peaceful being able to be close to spirit at any time. I can see from your previous posts that you are an animal lover. Me too. I have three cats that are in spirit and I have felt them curl up to my legs when lying in bed and am in the sleep OBE state. I have also had a dog in spirit that has visited me. I can't see them. I can only feel them. I am just so amazed. Sometimes when I get caught up in everyday life I think back in amazement that this really is happening. It puts such a smile to my face.

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Care4u,

Well that is just SO wonderful! This helps to verify what they say about everything in the spirit world happening as fast as thought, because that's all there really is to 'creation' of our reality. As in our loved ones being able to be with us as soon as we think of them - sort of like instantaneous Long Distance calls!

What kinds of things do your Spirit Guides tell you? And can you see them, or just sense them by touch? Do you know their names? Did you learn of them all at once or did they come to you individually, one at a time? Can you explain the process of how you contact spirit, or is it too long to get into, albeit easy? We had someone in the ADC forum awhile back who was telling us to get calm and just start talking, or using other aids such as pictures, etc., but she never got into much detail and seems to have disappeared from that forum. She was working on putting together a written guide for all people to that end, as she believed as you do, that it wasn't all that hard and that, of course, there was a great and growing NEED for this evolution in ourselves. So I've been waiting for months now and she hasn't returned to help us out there. How DO you raise your vibrational level to something closer to theirs? I've only heard of using meditations and the like to do this, but 'they' claim that it might take years of hard work to really get anywhere with this. In your case, that doesn't seem to be true, so I'm VERY interested now!! Also, have you actively contacted your animal companions as well, or have they just come to visit on their own?

Sorry for the third degree, but you've really got my interest up and I NEED to hear as much as I can from people like you....been waiting years already to find those with similar interests in these areas. I thank you SO MUCH for being willing to spread the good news with us here!! The more I can learn, the more confident I'll feel to try to attempt these things again myself. I'd started to try animal communication years ago, but, like many in that line of work, couldn't seem to do a very good job of it with my OWN furkids, as the emotional attachment was too great and clouded everything. So I'd given up, except for everyday living telepathy with my now-departed furboy, who was a real Master at facilitating it in me and with me.

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Care4u,

Well that is just SO wonderful! This helps to verify what they say about everything in the spirit world happening as fast as thought, because that's all there really is to 'creation' of our reality. As in our loved ones being able to be with us as soon as we think of them - sort of like instantaneous Long Distance calls!

What kinds of things do your Spirit Guides tell you? And can you see them, or just sense them by touch? Do you know their names? Did you learn of them all at once or did they come to you individually, one at a time? Can you explain the process of how you contact spirit, or is it too long to get into, albeit easy? We had someone in the ADC forum awhile back who was telling us to get calm and just start talking, or using other aids such as pictures, etc., but she never got into much detail and seems to have disappeared from that forum. She was working on putting together a written guide for all people to that end, as she believed as you do, that it wasn't all that hard and that, of course, there was a great and growing NEED for this evolution in ourselves. So I've been waiting for months now and she hasn't returned to help us out there. How DO you raise your vibrational level to something closer to theirs? I've only heard of using meditations and the like to do this, but 'they' claim that it might take years of hard work to really get anywhere with this. In your case, that doesn't seem to be true, so I'm VERY interested now!! Also, have you actively contacted your animal companions as well, or have they just come to visit on their own?

Sorry for the third degree, but you've really got my interest up and I NEED to hear as much as I can from people like you....been waiting years already to find those with similar interests in these areas. I thank you SO MUCH for being willing to spread the good news with us here!! The more I can learn, the more confident I'll feel to try to attempt these things again myself. I'd started to try animal communication years ago, but, like many in that line of work, couldn't seem to do a very good job of it with my OWN furkids, as the emotional attachment was too great and clouded everything. So I'd given up, except for everyday living telepathy with my now-departed furboy, who was a real Master at facilitating it in me and with me.

Swede1,

I just spent probably half an hour writing back to you, but I guess I went over the time limit and I lost it when I went to post it. So sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I will make it shorter and watch the time this time. I really put my heart into too. Oh, well, here goes again. Right now I will tell about my spirit guides and on another post I will go over the tecniques as best I can. So I told you it started by my feet being squeezed at night and for some reason my mom clipped a posting out of the paper for the Inner peace Movement(this is something she would never do) so I thought whoever was squeezing my feet might have had something to do with it...maybe put the thought form in her head? Pretty neat eh? Of course my mom wasn't really interested in going so I took the clipping and went by myself. I was SO nervous. I attended a few workshops on how to communicate with spirit through your thoughts and then I signed up for a private session with the spiritual teacher who went over with me how many guides I had and if they were male or female. The guide that is the main communicator was my husband in a past life, as well as a son and sisters. One of my sisters is an angel. I look at my sisters in the physical with me now and think how exciting it would be to be there guides in there next life of vise versa. The teacher said I had so many guides because I was going to be working with people. She was right I am registered to start school in march for nursing. I would really like to work in a hospice and hopefully one day be able to use my gifts to help people. Anyways, I only see my guides during OBE's and meditation. But during OBE's I am so caught up in the moment that I don't take the time to calm down and ask knowledgeable questions. I usually find myself flinging around aimlessly. My guides laugh at me for that. They have quite the sense of humors. At the INP Movement the teacher got in touch with my guides through hers and I was then able to ask them yes and no questions and they would answer by moving my body. I found this nice because I really didn't trust my intuition yet with just listening to my thoughts. I'm not sure how she did this though. But there are other ways that I learned so don't worry. The INP Movement was very helpful, but they are moving around alot so they may only be in your area briefly, or not at all. I live in Canada. Not sure where you are. You are so correct when you say our creation is thought form. It sure is. Oh and for my beloved darling fury friends, they actually came to me at night during OBE sleep state. This is when I was just starting to experience my guides coming to me. I felt my cat curl up against my legs in bed like he always use to. I love them so much and was so happy they would show me they were ok. I would love to here more about your fury freinds and telepathy, but I will ask you questions later when I have more time on the post. I would be interested in that. If my guides hadn't have come to me, I don't know where I would be spiritually right now. I would hate to go back to the belief of not knowing for sure. I am so verrrry thankful to them. I better post this now. Bye for now.

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Hi swede1, it's me again,

I said I would fill you in as much as I can on contacting spirit guides and spirits and I will keep my word. I think it is best to start off getting to know your guides first. I don't know if our loved ones that were so close to us can come directly to us or not, but it would be certainly worth a try. I havn't tried yet. I'm still in the learning process. I have a site for you to go to. Do you know if I can post e-mail addresses on here? If not I could send it to your e-mail. But anyways once you go to this site it will go over questions to ask your guides. I find I'm very receptive if I take alot of really deep breaths and really clear my mind. That's all you have to do for now. Ask the question, take a deep breath, let it out and write down the first thought that comes to you. Now you can see how I found it hard to just trust my thoughts. But it REALLY works. I didn't do all of the questions they say, I found it takes alot of pacience. Oh, and you can only ask a question once. I tend to have a problem sticking to this rule. I don't write everything down and forget what I've already asked them. I've been told not to ask "should I" questions, though. Your guides are here to do just that 'guide' you. So you should ask "is this in my best interest?" You may already know this and I am rambling on for nothing, but I thought I would start with that anyways. So now for the wonderful gift of feeling your guides. I was told that when you do this you must say a protection meditation. And I have just asked my guides and they have nodded my head "Yes". I don't have one yet so I will look one up or ask at my church to get the one we used at the workshop. Once I can give this to you then you are free to feel there energy. Or you may know of one? If working with spirits other than your guides you must do the protection meditation or maybe even a short protection prayer, I'm not sure, but we could look this up on the net. You might find the workshops at the spiritual center to be more helpful because I am still very new to this. You don't have to attend the sunday services, you can just attend the workshops. I like to communicate with my guides as much as possible to help me stay in touch with God and spirit otherwise I get to caught up in the material world and the love of God that I feel starts to fade a bit. I hope this info helps you a bit. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I would love to hear back from you if you try communing through thought and anything comes through that helps you or just to know if you trust the thought. Remember to keep your mind clear. The clearer the better and keep taking the deep breaths. This is just the way I was

shown, I'm sure there are many others. I will keep in touch and will be back with the protection meditation.

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Ok swede1 I found a protective meditation and for all of those who would like there own first hand proof that spirit guides are with them here you go. You will probably want to read my 2 prior posts first because I am just coming back in to the post. You don't have to do the thought questions first, that can come after. Oh, and I was just on another site that explained our loved ones can come to us if we try. So you can light a candle, but you don't have to turn out the lights or anything. You can keep your eyes open too if you want.

FIRST:You need to find a place where you will not be disturbed. no phones.sit down put your feet flat on the floor and let your hands rest on your lap, palms facing up.

SECOND:place your thumb and index finger together.

THIRD:Take 3 slow deep breaths,making each breath out longer than the one before it...then...imagine white light coming down from above and entering your body through the top of your head..see and feel this white light filling every part of your body and mind. make it real with the power of your mind..see any dark places and spaces that might be within you fill with that white light..see it..feel it..sense it..when you see or sense your body and your mind TOTALLY and completely filled with the white light, then see a little bit of it coming out of your body through your solar plexus, just above your belly button..and then see it surrounding your body like you are surrounded in a protective eggshell of positive white light...this white light is god energy and it will cleanse and protect you..know that you are totally protected..Know that you are totally protected.

continue to take very deep breaths the whole time. Now you may ask one spirit guide to join your energy and if they will raise your right hand to show they are there. Now you can tell the spirit guide to move away from your energy and say thank you for being with me and I love you and god bless you. There is no need to be afraid, they are full of love. We are all a part of each other, we are all a part of God.

And that is all it takes. Pretty easy huh? I hope that you are receptive. If nothing happens you can keep practicing the breathing to get you totally relaxed and practice keeping your mind clear.

I should add for anyone who would like to contact a loved one in spirit that they can't be with us for to long. It is draining to the energy. You can't be with them all the time, but they can come to verify that they are ok and still exist. You should do the meditation 3x a day. First thing in the morning as soon as you open your eyes once in the day anytime and when you close your eyes at night. Do this for 30 days 3x day and your protection will be very strong. Then you may be able to miss a day or two after that. I really hope you get to feel your guides energy. I would love to hear any input from anyone who got through. It really is very simple. That is all I know to show you right now, but I think it is a major step.

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Care4u,

Wow, that's a great help! Thanks so much! I've done a lot of similar meditations before, so this should be easy and I rather like the last part of forming the 'energy shell' from the white light. I do something similar for both me and my furgirl as part of an energy-clearing for each of us. Although, I know I won't do this 3x/day, as I'm pretty lousy when it comes to setting aside that much time! LOL! And yes, you can post emails or website addresses. It's just not a very safe practise to post your own email address publicly on boards, though I've seen many people do just that. Infortunately, BI hasn't kept up with the times and doesn't offer a Private Message system for posters which hides your email address.

Some other things of note: I'm in Canada, too (AB)( what Province are you in? ) and although I've seen 2 Spiritualist Churches close to my area, they only mentioned the Services, not any workshops. As for the Inner Peace Movement, I now have to phone their Canadian office to find out if there are any of those in my area, as they don't list them on their website ( which I checked as soon as you first mentioned it ). I know there are different beliefs about protection out there, and some don't harken to believing one has to 'protect' oneself, when EVERYTHING ultimately, is from our Creator, so I'm not sure what to make of that. And as for contacting our loved ones directly, I know it can and is done. I even have some books that take you through guided excercises to do this, but I just haven't tried one for a long time, as I was grieving too hard the last time I tried.....and wouldn't trust what I got! LOL! As well, I don't think I believe that they get 'tired' that quickly, as I've had animal communicator readings that lasted over an hour! Although, in one of them, my furboy did get "bored"! LOL! ( I was kind of insulted! lol! )

As for losing your post because of BI's time-out, you can compose a post in "Word" and then copy and paste it into a posting - I think many of us get caught on that at least once before we get smart. I've also seemingly lost a post due to time, but then hit the 'back' button which returned me to the log-in window,then hit the "Back" button again, which then somehow allowed me to return to my unposted post and since I'd logged-in again, as if from scratch, I could then post at that point. I don't know if this was just a glitch or if it can be reliably repeated, but I know it's worked at least twice before.

I'll be trying your stuff today ( at least that's my PLAN ) and will let you know if anything happened! Will keep an eye out, too, for that site with the questions for Guides. Gee...it's so nice to get some help with this stuff!!

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Care4u,

Wow, that's a great help! Thanks so much! I've done a lot of similar meditations before, so this should be easy and I rather like the last part of forming the 'energy shell' from the white light. I do something similar for both me and my furgirl as part of an energy-clearing for each of us. Although, I know I won't do this 3x/day, as I'm pretty lousy when it comes to setting aside that much time! LOL! And yes, you can post emails or website addresses. It's just not a very safe practise to post your own email address publicly on boards, though I've seen many people do just that. Infortunately, BI hasn't kept up with the times and doesn't offer a Private Message system for posters which hides your email address.

Some other things of note: I'm in Canada, too (AB)( what Province are you in? ) and although I've seen 2 Spiritualist Churches close to my area, they only mentioned the Services, not any workshops. As for the Inner Peace Movement, I now have to phone their Canadian office to find out if there are any of those in my area, as they don't list them on their website ( which I checked as soon as you first mentioned it ). I know there are different beliefs about protection out there, and some don't harken to believing one has to 'protect' oneself, when EVERYTHING ultimately, is from our Creator, so I'm not sure what to make of that. And as for contacting our loved ones directly, I know it can and is done. I even have some books that take you through guided excercises to do this, but I just haven't tried one for a long time, as I was grieving too hard the last time I tried.....and wouldn't trust what I got! LOL! As well, I don't think I believe that they get 'tired' that quickly, as I've had animal communicator readings that lasted over an hour! Although, in one of them, my furboy did get "bored"! LOL! ( I was kind of insulted! lol! )

As for losing your post because of BI's time-out, you can compose a post in "Word" and then copy and paste it into a posting - I think many of us get caught on that at least once before we get smart. I've also seemingly lost a post due to time, but then hit the 'back' button which returned me to the log-in window,then hit the "Back" button again, which then somehow allowed me to return to my unposted post and since I'd logged-in again, as if from scratch, I could then post at that point. I don't know if this was just a glitch or if it can be reliably repeated, but I know it's worked at least twice before.

I'll be trying your stuff today ( at least that's my PLAN ) and will let you know if anything happened! Will keep an eye out, too, for that site with the questions for Guides. Gee...it's so nice to get some help with this stuff!!

Hi Swede1,

I am so glad I could be of some help. I am in B.C. I don't know if all spiritual churches are as ahead as mine is. I think it all depends on if the volunteers are available and willing to hold the workshops. But I don't mind taking the workshops and passing the information on for others. I know I would like to develop alot more. I am going to go the distance to find out exactly what we are capable of. I think there is so much more that we can not see yet. When I quoted that energies get "tired", I kind of meant it in a gentle way for anyone who might be thinking they could continue to contact there loved one 24/7. I think that anyone who has suffered such a change in there life might let the thought cross their mind and the person might not move forward in there life. As far as how long their energy can be with us, I am not sure. I think I will ask my guides. I'm glad to hear that your communications lasted an hour. I always feel like I am talking my guides ears off. Because I gave them permission to hear my thoughts at all times. They know everything that goes on with me, but I want that. If they are willing to help guide me in life for my best good then I don't want to hide anything from them. I find myself apolagising alot and saying "oh don't listen to that thought, I really didn't mean it" They see all the humor. It's so nice to be able to talk openly to someone about this. One day I will be ready to fill my family in, I will just listen to my heart. I really would love to hear back from you after you do the meditation. Oh, and about the "protection". It's just an aura protection so that you don't damage your aura. I don't think you have to do it 3x/day. Everybody tells you something different. Just protect your aura before you contact all of those darling spirits. Also, here is the site I mentioned.

It's just a guide line. You can ask anything as long as it's just "would this be in my best interest". You are still the boss of your life and they are not here to tell you what to do. Anyways here it is: http://www.crystalinks.com/spirit guides.html

I have a sheet from INP movement with other ways to ask questions. I will find it and I will post them. I look forward to hearing back from you.

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Care4u,

I am also reading your post and will be trying to follow what you suggest. It has interested me since I lost my husband...I have found a Spiritual church and I have seen a medium with great success. I did my research before I did because I was in such a fragile state I knew it was way to important to screw with. I so enjoy reading your experiences and I think what you are experienceing is authentic...Thank you for your insight and honesty......I will keep you posted. I am in the US and not Canada.

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Someone just posted this under the Reincarnation forum here, but I've taken a look and it also deals with death, dying and helping someone else who is dying. It might be worth a look for anyone afraid of death and dying, and what happens to us all upon physical death. Me, I've put it on my Christmas wish list. You can read the posting in its entirety in that forum - here I've just listed the last piece of info.

"Information can be found at www.easydeathbook.com

More information can be found at www.adidam.org and www.beezone.com"

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Care4u,

Sorry, but I still haven't made or found the time to try the exercises for Spirit Guides, but I did read the website section on it. I have, however, tried the aura exercise and so far, I like it quite a bit. I did a couple for my furgirl as well. I'll be getting back to you yet, so don't give up on me!

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Care4u,

Gad! I STILL haven't made the time to do the Spirit Guide thing! I got all caught up in reading ( when I could ) that entire website that was mentioned under Reincarnation, etc. here and now I seem to be obsessed with all the stuff in there. It gave me pause because from what this Adi Da Samraj is saying, even things like Spirit Guides are merely contrivances of our mind! Now I REALLY don't know what to believe!!! I still want to try the other exercises though, to see what happens. Sorry, Care4u, I just got busy with Christmas stuff ( that I feel I have to start now because closer to Christmas I likely will start grieving more heavily again and not be up to it ), then this other site, and there went my entire plan out the window! Just thought I'd better let you know what happened to me in the interum.

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Care4u,

Gad! I STILL haven't made the time to do the Spirit Guide thing! I got all caught up in reading ( when I could ) that entire website that was mentioned under Reincarnation, etc. here and now I seem to be obsessed with all the stuff in there. It gave me pause because from what this Adi Da Samraj is saying, even things like Spirit Guides are merely contrivances of our mind! Now I REALLY don't know what to believe!!! I still want to try the other exercises though, to see what happens. Sorry, Care4u, I just got busy with Christmas stuff ( that I feel I have to start now because closer to Christmas I likely will start grieving more heavily again and not be up to it ), then this other site, and there went my entire plan out the window! Just thought I'd better let you know what happened to me in the interum.

Swede1,

No worries, I have been busy myself. I just wanted to share something with you quickly though. I was sitting around thinking the other day of if it would be possible to force myself to have an OBE while being awake. So of course I looked it up on the internet and found some techniques. I tried it right away (of course). I could feel myself getting close to leaving my body because my whole body was going numb, but what actually happened was I brought my guides so much closer to me. I can't believe how close they are to me now. They haven't left my side scince last week. All day when I'm at work I feel them using my hands to do my work. It is very funny. I don't feel that we should believe anything we are told really until we experience things first hand ourselves. Then only WE can decide WHAT IS REAL, AND WHAT ISN'T. That is why I so strongly suggest the spiritual church to people and/or looking into spiritual or mediumship workshops, because I have found it is the only place that can help you to experience spirituality on your own terms with the truth being only what YOU experience and you are not forced to believe anything that hasn't been experienced first hand. I do know that spirit is not suppose to be a mystery, and that spirits want us to know they are there. If only the world would look into it more and quit being so simple minded the truth could be unleashed. I geuss I sounded kind of harsh there. I didn't mean that towards ANY one here in any way so please don't think that. I geuss I just really want people to know the truth so that passing into spirit does not have to be as heart wrenching as it can be. When I get caught up in my day and haven't felt my guides, I think of them and all of a sudden my hand will go up to my face and gently stroke my cheek so I know they are there. They are just the sweetest and so full of love. I don't know anyone hear on earth who has shown me as much love as they have. Anyways, it was really good to hear from you again and please when you get the chance, try the technique because I would love to hear what happens for you. Take care Swede1.

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Care4u, do you do readings?

Matthews Mama Mary

11-3-79 7-13-03

donosmom,

I am starting to do more now. Before I only did them with my mediumship class, and after being successful there I thought maybe I could try to help all of you through your pain. My gifts are starting to come on stronger and I am feeling more confident in myself now. If you would like me to do a communication for you just leave me a reply and I should be able to get back to you tommorrow.

Thanks for writing to me

Take care

Care4u

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ladyhitchhiker
Does anyone out there know of any faith that DOESN'T put animals way down the totem pole, with humans at the very top as supposedly completely 'superior', and usually in a different 'class' that blows its own, high-fallutin' horn? Or in the realm of faiths thought up BY humans, is this an impossible hope? Is there no formal faith that follows, say, the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi? HELP!! I can't stand this human arrogance anymore!

Bahaia. They believe that animals are the only innocents. That's the only one I know of but I'm willing to find another one! :)

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4everjoeysmom

I'm not going to toot any horns or anything like that. I just want to share my 2 cents. I am a Christian, and I believe God created both human and animal, giving dominion over land and animals to humankind. The problem in this world is not the order of status and power between man and animals. The problem is man's depravity; it's so great that many people diregard animals as life that should not be honored. I am not a vegetarian, and I do believe in eating meat. Many folks wear leather and harp on animal cruelty... where does leather come from? Where do we draw the line? On the other hand, I am pissed off at my husband most of the time because I don't feel he takes responsible care of the two dogs he wanted so badly to be here on our property... I've had wonderful dogs that have been my greatest companions. Over a year ago I laid my beautiful Boxer Gretchen to rest after many faithful years of loyalty. I now have a shihtzu puppy that I named after my recently deceased son, and I just can't bear to think how I would be muddling through my grief and loss without my "little buddy". He's my little hero and I love him so much.

I don't think religion is the problem. I think people are... and lots of people make excuses in the name of religion. Humans are in a different class than animals, but that doesn't mean we should dishonor animal life. The Bible is my life book, and it does not say anywhere to dishonor life or creation.

Just my 2 cents...

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4everjoeysmom

And sorry--so as not to misunderstand me. I am not promoting religion, as this is not the forum for it. My point was to say religion is only an excuse, not the real problem of animal diregard...

Peace! -Claudia

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Whether Buddhist or not, the Buddhists have always tried to understand the dying process and death itself. Their ancient descriptions of death are very similar to the white light experiences described by some today. Americans, so materialistic and crass as we are, seem to feel we shouldn't discuss death, that we can somehow avoid it by not talking about it. I sometimes think that if we put discussion of dying on the front burner, we might be kinder toward each other, and certainly less focused on who has the most stuff and lack of concern for the future generations and the environment. Along with some traditional Judeo-Christian texts, I am currently reading some Tibetan texts on death and dying. If you've ever met a Tibetan monk, they are like nothing else (Zen monks are too severe for me). Laughing, honest, kind, aware that, no matter what we believe, we pass each other in this life in this way but once.

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Hi everyone,

There are many denominations within the Buddhist religion as well. The books related to death and dying written by Stephen Levine are particularly helpful. They are: "Who Dies?: Conscious Living, Conscious Dying." "Meetings at the Edge" and "Healing Into Life and Death" all by Anchor Books.

Lama Surya Das has also written some good and helpful books. His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama has written good books on "Healing Anger" and "The Art of Happiness."

Leave yourself open to as many teachings as possible. If it does not sound "real or good" to you, or feed your soul in some way, leave it. If you are unsure of what you read, put it down, and come back to it even a few days, weeks, or months later.

Namaste,

Thomas

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As a psychic medium my opinions on death may differ from some others.

I believe that everyone goes to the good part, or as what many view as heaven. And I believe that there isn't such a thing as hell, because we are living in it already. Instead, if you haven't learned all your lessons, you get reincarnated and come back to try again. Many of us have multiple past lives.

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[user=11140]swede1[/user] wrote:

Does anyone out there know of any faith that DOESN'T put animals way down the totem pole, with humans at the very top as supposedly completely 'superior', and usually in a different 'class' that blows its own, high-fallutin' horn? Or in the realm of faiths thought up BY humans, is this an impossible hope? Is there no formal faith that follows, say, the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi? HELP!! I can't stand this human arrogance anymore!

swede1, You ask if there is any formal faith that follows the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi.  Not to blow any high-fallutin' horn or "push" Christianity, I would only point out that St. Francis of Assisi was Catholic and was  therefore Christian.  If you're interested in his teachings, then you need to explore where he derived his belief system...  Just a suggestion.

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alwaysmyjennifer

I'm a professional Christian musician, but before I'm tossed into a car trunk, I'll say that I do think very highly of animals. After all, they're truly free, but we can't really say this of the stockbroker, can we? In India, there is a religion based on the worship of the cow, which is so highly revered that people bathe in its urine. I'm not really in favor of such a practice for obvious reasons. I heard of some people in Tibet who worship the local rats, especially the white ones. It's said that nobody has ever contracted an illness from their sacred rats. I'm Native American, which religion is based in nature and reveres all of nature. For instance, when an animal is taken from nature out of necessity to feed a family (the only reason, unlike Buffalo Bill), a sacrifice is offered in thanksgiving to the animal for what it will give to the family, and then the family may not waste anything. As you can see, it's all about respect and stewardship of the natural resources. I hope this gives you some of the answer you seek.

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Interesting forum. Thought I would clarify something alwaysmy jennifer mentioned. I practice vaisnavism, an Eastern based Philosophy. This culture does not "worship" the cow. We do "protect" the cow. The cow can be referred to as the "mother" of the Earth. She feeds the world with her milk. Just as we wouldn't harm our mothers, we also would not harm our mother cow. As for bathing in urine, it has long been known that urine of the cow has antiseptic qualities. This isn't performed (in my faith) as a "religious thing", however, it may be a medical practice is some parts of the world.

We also do not consume any animal products, or even wear them. Its not a question of animals being "elevated" on the chain, so to speak, but instead the concept is that all living beings are eternal, all have souls. No harm is to be inflcited upon another living being, including animals. We are also anti-abortion. All life is sacred.

As for dietary needs and not "wasting". Humans do not REQUIRE animal products for sustainence. This is a personal choice, and many medical establishments tout the benefits of a vegetarian diet. Also, vegetarian diet can also assists in the "waste not, want not" category. Huge quantities of land and crops are used to maintain beef cattle, corn that can be used to feed humans and dairy cows. Vegetarian diets offer many perks, many more than I could explain in just a few paragraphs.

Have a good one.

Lisa

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Dear Members,

We are excited to mention that we are moving to a more new and improved message boards on MONDAY MORNING AUGUST 9th! The boards will be done for a few hours while we are making the conversation. Remember we posted information about this move a month ago. For some of you this might seem a bit sudden,  but when we were reviewing the site we determined the current message board you are using is out of date and the company that designed it is no longer in existence. The good news is this new message board will have new features that have been requested in the past like more fields we can add to your profiles and a chat room up to 20 people at one time. If we find the chat room is bursting at the seams we will add additional room for extra people. All your old posts, private messages and such will be migrated to the new message board. You might have to put up your profile picture again but not sure. The new company will be doing the migration for us. Here is a short list of some of the new features on the board:

- Custom Profile Fields

- Users can customize their profile pages by selecting a background color or background image, with tiling options.

- Facebook and Twitter Integration

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The next exciting piece of news about the new message board is it will have a new domain name of www.grieving.com for search engine optimization purposes. It will still be apart of Beyond Indigo and can be found through www.beyondindigo.com. We will be redirecting your current URL's to this new domain name but we might miss a few. If that is the case simply go back to www.grieving.com or www.beyondindigo.com to find your message board thread. We will try to make the transition as seamless as possible.

The bottom line is the new board will give us room to grow our community and more options to interact better with each other.

If you have any questions please direct them to feedback@beyondindigo.com.

Kelly Baltzell, MA

CEO/President

Beyond Indigo Family

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