Open Discussion

[wowwoman]

Thank you so much for your response. I know that he needs time and I want to give it to him, but how do you love someone at arms length? I almost feel like I am grieving for him and for us as well. We have spent some wonderful times together since her death and I know that he was trying to give me the time, love and attention that he could give without taking away from his grief, and still let me know that he cared. I somehow think it would be easier if I turned completely away. I know that when he goes home he is surrounded by everything that was her but she is not there. I know that I don't have a clue about what he is going through but I just don't know what to do. All I know is that I wouldn't hurt him more than he is already hurting. I pray every day for him, and selfishly for myself. At my age I finally think that I have found happiness and true love but now, well to tell you the truth, I just feel like running away.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

wowwoman, does he act like he wants you to back off, or move in? Always look at his eyes for the answer. Here's a thought. If you turn completely away, he may interpret this as another large scale loss like his wife's death. If you're inside now, stay. Remember, look at his eyes. Let him have space when he needs. Just remember, I'm not an expert. I'm a hubbie who is losing my wife to a terminal illness. My daughters see my sorrow, but also my unwillingness to be alone without their stepmom. I hope you both find the happiness you are looking for. May he find the peace and hope his heart needs and deserves. I'm Mark, Jenni's dad.

[wowwoman]

Hi Mark, First let me say how sorry I am for what you are going through but how grateful I am for your response to my sorrow as well. I do know that he doesn't want me to move in but sometimes I think he is hanging on to me for dear life. My work hours has changed in the past two weeks and we haven't seen each other in that time and talked only a few times. He has told me that he is use to being able to control just about every situation in his life and now he has no control. He does have a strong belief in God, as I do, but as humans we just want to be able to know everything and why. I haven't mentioned that I myself have gone through a lot in the past year. I have seperated from my husband last September, moved into a tiny apartment, started a new job, and diagnosed with Diabetes. And just when I thought I would finally be happy for once in my life, the bottom falls out once again. There are many people telling him that there are woman who want to jump in and take his wife's place and that he should be careful. He has told me this himself, and he has also told me that I have been there from the beginning and never left him as all the others did. I do feel like a yoyo pretty much of the time but I have told him that I will be here for him whenever and however he needs me. He has told me also that I love him the way his wife did and that it was scary. I have told him also that I will be here for him whenver and however he needs me. Guess that's all I can do!

[angelbear]

Hello I am new hear, just needed to vent. I have recently lost my mom on 10/14/06 she was my adopted mom as i am reminded from some people even though

I never looked at it that way, She has been one of the greatest people in my life and it hurts so bad that I feel like I can't breath some times or my heart will exsplode...I had the privalage of being here to help care for her in the last 2 or 3 months, we had some talks that i will always remember but i often find myself trying not to think about because it hurts..I have been blessed with a lot of brothers and sisters from my mom but in a lot of way's it feels like there gone too. I have had so many loses in my life including my son. I know in my heart that they are all in a better place where there is no pain , but for somereason me telling my self that doesnt help..I fear that my husband has been untrue but only denies it..I can deal with this I just need the truth...I have come to a point in my life that I am asking god how much pain or loss does a person have to go through...

As i look back over my life from the time I was very young there has been pain / from the time i was 10 there has been death of the people i love the most...I don't even know if i should be writing this maybe i should just keep it to myself like always and move on...mom has always showed me how to be strong.. angelbear

[mofirefly]

Angelbear If you feel better writting out your feelings, this is the place to do it, so don't feel like you shouldn't. We all handle loss differently. I know that coming here and "venting" as you say can be a big help. Please take care.

[mandndad]

I want to let u all know that you are strong people, Me on the other hand have went thru some very very bitter feelings that I know my dad would never want but I can't help it it is NOT suppossed to be this way. My dad should not have died that day! HE should be here for our babies that loved him as much as we do.

Most of all just cause we lost my dad in that accident we should not have had to loose my mom too.. She lived why won't she LIVE????

I tried soo hard to put up the X-mas tree and NOTHING about it was right!!!My daddy and mom are not here. I'm sorrry I just needed to vent. I'm Sure none of it even makes sense. Thanks anyway for listening!!! Mandee

[angelbear]

Thank you first of all!

Mandee don't feel so alone there are a lot of us feeling the presure of christmas & it's not easy, The only thing i can say at this point is try to remember how much your parents enjoyed christmas maybe this will help!

may god be with you and the rest of us and the way we feel right now...

[suelowe]

I feel i'm going down a little in depression, cos as each year goes by, it's like it's certain confirmation that my mum has gone. I'm just trying to deal with one thing at a time, especially now christmas is almost upon us.

We're in this together, and my thoughts are with you all.

God be with you all,

sue

[sylviac]

suelowe-- I hope you (and all of us here) continue to find strength with each others words and thoughts. I am relatively new here, but I have found that I am uplifted by what I read and the support that is here---Prayers, Hugs and much Love

[Guest Guest]

I watch little kids running around at work and feel angry when their parents yell at them. It hurts so bad. Is this normal? Should I say something? Should I tell them that they should appreciate their kids because they never know how long they'll get to spend with them? I feel like saying it, but hey, I can't really do that at work, can I?

[4everjoeysmom]

Guest, there is no way to define normal and not normal when it comes to grief. Your want so much for people to treat their children like th enext moment they may not have that child. And that is reasonalble to feel that way. But it would not be appropriate to interfere with how a parent speaks to their child, disciplines, etc--unless of course there was endangerment to the child that you could report to authorities. We become hypersensitive to the world around us when we lose someone precious to us, especially a child. But to each parent is the right and the need to discipline. I'm not saying all parents handle disciplining their child appropriately, but it is not our place to interfere, regardless of our pain and emotional feelings. It's a hard thing to try and tune out. If it bothers you to the point of carziness, maybe you could just politely give a look or put your hands over your ears as a gesture that they are being loud.. if they ask, tell them it breaks your heart because you lost your little girl, and children are precious to you... A light gesture would be ok, but a condescending response would not be good...

[annabanana]

Hi here is a story that I just read to my parents at my brothers funeral. christopher was only 34 years old.

I just wanted to add this story for anyone who is trying to help a child understand grief, death. Really grief over death. the profession I am in is a field called child life specialist. I work with pediatric patients and their families in the hospital. I specialize in family-centered care. I just told this story to a young young girl who lost her sister yesterday.She is 5 and he sister was 9. Her mom called me tonight to thank me for reading that to her and printing it out for her. I showed her a picture of my brother and we are going to make a website of her sister together. Shes so darned cute man oh man. so was her sis anyhow even though I read it for my parents at the funeral a child can get it. here goes...

Once upon a time there was a little bear who's name was Ted. He was a very special little bear, for his son was the best little boy in the whole world... well, at least in the Beforetime. Today, you see, he was a sad little bear. He sat at the side of the road and looked as though a tear would drown him. He was the scrufiest, muftiest little bear you ever did see, and just by looking at him you would never know how special he was. It just so happened that Nana Bear was walking down the street on her way to town when she saw little Ted Bear looking ever so sad and stopped to talk with him. "Why are you so sad Little Ted?" said Nana Bear. "You used to be the happiest little bear in the land!" "That was in the Beforetimes" answered little Ted sad as sad could be. "I don't have my little boy anymore. I'm never going to find him again, and I am so unhappy". "Well" said Nana Bear, "Tell me all about it." And she sat down on the tree stump by the side of the road settling herself in quite comfortably, and waited for Ted to tell her his story. But he didn't say a word. "What was your boy's name?" asked Nana Bear. She knew quite well what the boy's name was for everyone had known what a special boy he had been but she wanted to hear Little Ted say his name. "Christopher" said Ted and he hiccuped. A big tear started to roll down his face and straight away he stopped it.. and was very, very brave. "Why Little Ted - whatever are you doing?" asked Nana Bear very puzzled seeing the tear stop rolling on an instant, and the very, very brave face freeze Ted's face like concrete on a very hot day. "I'm being very, very brave. Very Brave." he added on just to make sure she knew what a good little bear he was being. "Well", said Nana Bear, "But why are you being so very, very brave? It doesn't look like it makes you very happy, and I am sure I don't know what good of a thing being very, very brave is if it doesn't make you happy". "The bear by the field said I must", said Little Ted wisely. "He said that losing your boy can be very, very hard and I must be very, very brave." "Oh," said Nana Bear thoughtfully. "Tell me Little Ted, what else did the bear by the field tell you?" "Well", said Little Ted, remembering as best he could. "He said that I would get another boy soon and that would make everything better." "Oh!", said Nana Bear even more thoughtfully. "And would it make everything better if you got another boy right away?" Little Ted sat mournfully still. "No one could ever be the best boy that Christopher was! He was wonderful, and he loved me ever so much. I don't think any other boy would ever be as good." "Ah", said Nana Bear. "I see. And what else did the bear by the field tell you?" "He said that I would feel much better soon. It's just a matter of time. But Nana Bear, I don't want to forget Christopher. I want to remember what a nice boy he was. Does that mean that in time I will forget all about him?" "Oh, I don't think so Little Ted", said Nana Bear. "When you love someone as much as you loved Christopher, I don't think you ever forget him. What else did the bear by the field say?" "He didn't" said Little Bear sadly. "I wanted to talk about Christopher and he didn't. I said I wished I had my boy back, and he said he thought the corn would grow nicely." "I said I wanted to remember my boy forever, and he said what nice weather we were having. I suppose all the bears are tired of hearing me talk about my little boy." "Oh Little Bear" said Nana Bear. "Come up here this very instant and not a second longer." Little Bear climbed up into Nana Bear's lap. He was very glad to be there because it was very hard being very, very brave all the time, and it was so good to have someone hug and cuddle him again. He did not realize what an all alone feeling it had been without his boy to hug and kiss him. He snuggled down in Nana Bear's lap, his heart aching for the missing Christopher. "Should I tell you what I think Little Ted?" she said softly as she stroked his little bear head. "I think that Christopher would want you to cry if you are sad. If Christopher was peeking from behind those bushes and saw your very, very brave face, why he might not even know it was you!" "And I will tell you what else I think... Maybe one day you will find another boy to love and who will love you very much. But that so fuzzy spot in your heart that belongs to Christopher will always be just for him and not for your new boy. Your new boy will have his own place that you will make for him." "And, I will tell you what else I think. Time is a taker of many things, but not a taker of heartache. All the time in the world will not stop you from missing Christopher. But time cannot steal your memories, and cannot take away all the good times you ever had in your whole lives together." "And Little Ted, of course you must talk about him. You must pick your very goods friends who loved him ever so much, and you can talk about him together. And there is a spot right here on my lap whenever a Christopher thought needs to be spoken." "Oh, thank you Nana Bear," breathed Little Ted softly. "Thank you so very much for telling me that. And Nana Bear, tell me this... just one more thing. Can I be happy again one day? Am I supposed to be sad for my boy forever?" "Oh, what a wonderful thing that will be when you have happy thoughts again!", said Nana Bear. "After all, you have only lost your boy a short time ago. Boy's are not like socks in the dryer, never to be seen again. In the Big Could in the Sky, in the Aftertimes, you will see him again. In the meantime you have to love the world for him because he cannot do it by himself anymore. When you see a butterfly around, you must look at it for your boy, and laugh for him and dance with it for him. You must live all the happiness left in the world and store it up in your heart to take for him when you see him again. When you are ready, you can begin to store those those happy thoughts Little Ted. When you are ready." And a big tear rolled down Little Ted's face, and another. Pretty soon there were so many tears he made a puddle, and the puddle made a bath. Pretty soon Ted was all wet and before you knew it he was clean as a whistle, and didn't look anywhere near as scruftie-muftie as he did before. And the tears made the flowers grow, and the butterflies came, and before you knew it the world was clean and sparkling and wonderful again. Did Little Ted ever stop missing his boy? No, no, never in a million years. But he learned that it is a fine thing to cry, and get the fur all nice and clean. And he learned that tears grow flowers, and flowers bring butterflies. And Little Ted learned that one day in a long and far off time a bear and his boy will see each other again. But until that time he would keep his eye out for joy-things to store up and take as a great and wonderful gift to the best boy who ever lived in this whole world....

[Guest Guest]

I am 56 and just lost my twin sister about 4 weeks ohhh my she was my best friend I miss her so bad I think I cant face another day without her . she was so sick for a long time about 7 years and on dializes bad lungs , liver 7 back surgeries... she lost her husband 3 years to a massive heart attack.

she had told me 2 years ago when she made her living will that if she had to ever be on a ventilator just to prolong life for a few days to take her off so she made me her health surrograte I had to sign the paper in the end ..... ohhhhhhhhhhhhh that was one of the hardest things I have ever done 7 mins. later she was gone ......

[jackiewitter]

Dear Guest. I am so very sorry for your loss, I know that words right now do nothing to ease your pain, but you have reached out and found this site, I can tell you that it has been my salvation in regards to my sanity. You life has forever now changed. I am in the 6 month of the loss of my brother. Saddly there are several of us "newbies" at the Loss of a Sibling post. Please feel free to join us. While my brother was not a twin, he was like my right arm, we were rarely separated, so I can understand the loss that you are feeling. My brother's death was sudden, but I too am familiar with those life/death decisions and I know how painful that was. Hey there's miracles still out there...any chance that if I do this I am not allowing God to perform a miracle? That feeling has plagued me for months. Please do not hesitate to reach out when you feel overwhelmed. I am usually here once a day and I will help with what I can. I will keep you in my prayers. Peace and blessings, Jackie

[Kelly]

We just got back in our popular Remember Pins. Show that you are remembering a loved one by wearing these pins. The proceeds cover the cost of the pins and help support Beyond Indigo. Too see the pins and wristbands as well as place an order copy and paste this link into a new broswer window.

http://www.beyondindigo.com/sunshop/index.php?action=category&id=2

Kelly

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

I've been on here for a while now, and I've never had to post on this board. The deaths that I've gone through are my 24 year old sister on July 26th, 2006, my mother, on April 18th, 2004, and now. My friend. On Febuary 6th, 2007.

Kevin was a guy that I went to school with. He was 17 year, going to be 18 on the 19th of Febuary. I want to deal with his death alone, and I know thats not right, so once agian. I find myself reaching out to my BI family.

thanks for all your support.

[4everjoeysmom]

Xxordinaryxxgirlxx, I am so, so sorry... I'll be praying for you through this tragic chain of loss... Love & Hugs, Claudia

[mofirefly]

Xxordinaryxxgirlxx - There are no words I can post that would express what reading your post made me feel. May you know that others are here to offer you as much support as possible. Take Care!

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

Thank you both so much.

I feel like I must of done something wrong to have all this happen to me. I know that I didn't but, I still have that feeling. I have so many resentments, and I think it's really hurting me. It's sunday right now, and I've been trying to keep myself busy. I had a friend come over today, and he's from Germany, which is really exciting, so we talked, and he asked me what was hanging on my closet door, and it just happend to be the outfit that I am wearing to Kevin's funeral. And that just set it off, and Adrian, the guy from Germany, was really upset that he upset me, and now, I feel bad that I got mad at him for asking, I know that he was jsut asking a question, but I got really upset. I'm afraid that with these moods I'm in, I'm going to freak out on the wrong person, and then even my friend won't be there for me. *sigh*

What did I doo wrong????

[mofirefly]

xxordinaryxxgirlxx - As you yourself typed, you know you didn't do anything wrong. May I suggest contacting Adrian and letting him know how you are feeling about your last get together...let him know your moods will be jumping all over the place and that if he should get caught in the crossfire to please just be patient with you. Friends really do care and will be there for us, thru thick and thin as the saying goes...and I know that those on this site will be here as well. TAKE CARE!

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

I talked to him today, he understands but the feeling of resentment is still there. I really care about my friends, they are important to me. And sometimes, I get scared, like they won't understad.

[mofirefly]

xxordinaryxxgirlxx - Those around us can't really understand us unless they too have lost someone and even then it's difficult to connect at times. Maybe that why a lot of us come to this site to vent our feelings. And it may be why we put on a mask when going out among others as we feel it will make them uncomfortable if they see our pain...and isn't that sad. Here we don't have to wear the mask of being "back to normal" (a saying I can't stand anymore). Each of us on this site are going thru our own pain at our own pace. Being scared is very much apart of the pain we feel. I think it comes from being afraid we may lose someone else and that we just don't think we could handle anymore. I hope you continue to reach out to your friends, as they will most likely be there for you thru this difficult time...even if they don't understand. Take Care!

[jackiewitter]

mofirefly, hey there, you got it. The mask...that's why I love it here. I can take that mask off. My husband and I have almost ceased all conversation because I don't want to say anything to hurt him, but I don't know what to say. He is out of town this week and as much as I miss him, it is actully nice to not have to look at him in silence. In the earliest stages I did say things that hurt him and I hate that, but I cannot change what happened. I cannot pretend that things just go on like before; so instead we mostly have silence. Sometimes I feel that I am living with the dead because the living simply don't understand. I can talk with my dead brother and my deceased parents, but cannot talk with my family and friends, go figure. I pray that with time things will return to some normalicy, but I fear the opposite. One thing I have learned in the past six months, just get up every day hoping that it will be better than the last one and if it isn't, you can't loose faith that somewhere there will be brighter days. I feel like I have been in this mire for so long that I am not sure that I want to feel better, what happens when I feel better, does that mean that my sorrow is gone? I cannot even imagine being happy while my brother is dead, I simply cannot imagine it. Each and everything that I do now somehow comes back to him, my thoughts are consumed with him, more so than when he was living. I think that might be an illness! This is the most unique process I have ever been through, it's almost like a prism, there are so many facets to it that you can never get a handle on all of them. What I would really like to see is someone that post about good days, I don't see much about that. What happens when you are "well", do you just go away and post to another site, like a "I'm no longer grieving site". I think that I have accepted that I will be grieving for the rest of my life. I just cannot see it any other way. I just pray that God will give sprinkles of peace in there. Well tomorrow's another day and we can get up and start all over again. I wish everyone here peace and hopes for a full night's sleep, or that you get as much as you need to get by. Prayers & blessings, Jackie

[mofirefly]

Jeffreyssister - Your remark about being able to talk with the ones you've lost but not to those around you really impacted on me. I don't have very many people to talk to as I live in the country and don't get into town much, so that leaves me to talk with my husband - and believe me, he just doesn't get what I'm going thru at all! I want soooo very much to share with him how I'm feeling, but he can't handle it when I'm upset (he ends up having panic attacks) so he says why don't I call up my friend (who lives in another state). I really believe that's why I've been coming to this forum - even tho I don't actually know anyone here - I can express what I'm feeling and that seems to help. I too have wondered what happens to some who have posted and then don't, but I now realize many come here to read but simply can't post their thoughts at the moment. Anyway, I'm rambling so I'll close with something hopefully positive that I've read in the past - We miss our loved ones soo very much because we loved them soo very much and we should be thankful for that as there are many who have never experienced that type of love in their lives. Take Care!

[jackiewitter]

mofirefly, I think I have posted it once before, but I told my husband ask me what I wanted to do and I told him I didn't know, but I just needed him to fix it. I told him that if my brother was living he would hold me and comfort me, Chris just looked at me and said "Jackie, if Jeff were alive, you wouldn't need him to hold and comfort you". It cracked me up, first laugh in a long time. My husband has some indirect involvment in my brother's death and that has made it so difficult. I don't know what kind of burden he is carrying and that worries me. I know that he loves me and he is wants to fix things, but there are things that we cannot say to each other. I don't know how I found this site, but I am so very grateful that I did. I don't know what I would have done without it. I have been able to put things in writing that I could never say out loud. I have three very dear friends, but they don't understand, plus there are things that you can say here that if you said in the "non-grieving world" they would lock you away! I know that my brother is now with my parents and I am sure my mom has picked up where she left off, spoiling his butt rotten. I hope so, this world was not a place for him, he was so lonely without my mom. Thanks for the quote, I have something similar on my myspace page, it's like grief is not a sign of weakness but of the amount of love that you had. I was reading my daily devotional today and it was speaking of grief cups. Amazing, back in the day, the Hebrews had small cups that they put their tears in and then capped it off until the next time they cried. Tears and sorrow where likened to virtues, it showed that you had passion and love. I thought that was pretty cool. By todays standards tears are weakness, but they actually saved them. I think I would need a pitcher rather than a cup though! I wish you peace, and places in your heart that make you smile. I will keep you in my prayers. Blessings, Jackie

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

All your words are very true. My friends are younger, and havne't had any kind of pain. It seems. And I've come to realize that as much as they "try" to understand, they never truly will. Even if they go through the same thing. Everyone hanldes everything in a different way. It took a while to see that, but I'm glad that I do now.

Sometimes I find myself wearing that "mask" for many other things, other than just hiding pain. Basically, I hide what I don't want anyone to see. *sigh* I shouldn't care. But I do. And for today...it's okay.

[jackiewitter]

xxordinaryxxgirlxx, I am glad you had had a good day. I look around me at people who argue and fight over the smallest of things and I just think to myself, man, you don't have a clue how meaningless that is. While you have had to deal with losses at such a young age you have already displayed so much strength and character. Try not to isolate your friends, while they don't know what to do to help you, they are still your friends. Use this site to to expose those parts of yourself that you choose not to share with everyone. Talking to you has made me realize how much my youngest daughter has isolated herself. My father died on her 16th birthday and then 6 months ago my brother died 15 minutes after her 18th birthday. We prayed all that evening that God would not take him on her birthday and he didn't he waited 15 minutes afer it passed. Now my daugher feels somewhat cursed (not really, but you can imagine how she feels about birthdays). Her boyfriend is in Iraq now and I think she has just locked herself into those places where it's just easier not to have to talk with your friends. Do you have any suggestions as to what's the best way to approach her about that? I would love your input. Please take care of yourself and know that you are in my thougths. Prayers and blessing, Jackie

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

Jackie,

I can totally argee, with everything you said. And unfortunatally people DON'T realize what they are doing, it most of the time is meaningless. I really do feel like hiding, and isolating myself from everything. There are those days taht I would like to not get out of bed, and lay there...and pray all day that things will get better. Sometimes I do. I lay there all day. Don't shower, don't eat, don't take any phone calls. And times when I feel okay I think about it, and I think how disgusting and how bad for me that really is, but it's not. It's just my way of thinking. And I hate it more than anything. Because I don't allow enough time for me to heal. As to your daughter, she will isolate herself, that's totally normal. She's been through alot to. And thats her way of dealing with it. I know, that I'm not in the right frame of mind to give advice, but, from a young persons point of veiw, let her heal. If she needs or help, she may or may not ask, but you being her mother will know. I am very much like her, when things happen that i can't take in, i isolate, and refuse to talk to my friend also. I don't want anyone in my face asking all the time if I'm okay. I hate it. Most people HATE being asked if they are okay, because it just reminds them that their not. It's hard to believe but true. I'll be praying for her. Let her know that you are there for her, and that her friends are there also...and she will come to you in time. I have a feeling.

Take care,

Kaley

[jamesv]

I lost my sister a year and a half ago. As part of my grieving process I realized that it was comforting to write messages to her even though she would not receive them. I then asked others who had lost loved ones what they thought of writing messages to the departed, and the vast majority thought it was a great idea and themselves wanted to write messages. I recently started a web site \"Grief is Good\" (grief-is-good.blogspot.com) which is an open collection of messages that underline the fact that grief is good and necessary. Each post is a response to the following question:

\"If you could send a message to a deceased loved one, what would you say?\"

Writing messages to lost loved ones can be a comforting exercise that brings order to unresolved and confusing thoughts that have lingered since the time of a person\'s death. This \"letting it out\" can be liberating. Reading messages written to lost loved ones can be equally comforting in the recognition of similar post-death feelings experienced by others. Dealing with death is an isolating process, and reading other people\'s messages may help ease feelings of loneliness. Both writing and reading messages can be a starting point to the return of some kind of normality in life.

Of course, this is just one way to deal with the challenge of grief. For some like me, it helps. Visit the site at grief-is-good.blogspot.com.

Thanks,

James

[xxordinaryxxgirlxx]

jamesv-

I think that the website is a good idea. I don't have a home computer, so I can only get on here while I'm at school after I finish my work. But yesterday when I went to see your site, I noticed that it was blocked. I plan on going to the libraury after school sometime this week to look at the site. I think it's a wonderful idea. Sometimes, with he loss of my mother and sister, I sometimes get mad at them, and so I write them telling them that I am. And then I throw them away. Other times, when I just really miss them, I write them kind letters telling them I miss them and that I love them, and kind of "catach up" I guess you could call it. Letting them know whats going on with my dad and other sister, and my niece and nephews. I keep them in a little box, and sometimes I even adress them to Heaven and it makes me feel better. I really like the idea, and I can't wait to see it.

Take Care,

Kaley

[mofirefly]

Just wanted to share a thought - I've seen on the news a couple of times how people who have lost a loved one were spoken of as being "so brave, and strong" and stuff like that. I wonder why as a society we deem people brave and strong when all they are really doing is either putting on an act of they didn't really have a close relationship. I guess we are conditoned by those before us and around us to put on a brave exterior while our insides are in shambles. People in the mid east are shown sobbing and wailing. Are we suppose to consider them weak simply because they openly express their feelings of grief? Why do we think tears are a sign of weakness???

[rodless]

I have read somewhere that our society has lost the ability to mourn in a helpful way. In the "olden" days time was set aside for families to grieve. Now we're expected to get over it and go on because "life is short." I think the wailing would be healing but can you imagine trying that? Most of us are forced to show a strong exterior no matter how bad we're hurting inside. That's why I like this board so much. I can tell it like it is.

[4everjoeysmom]

Let's also remember that in front of TV cameras and the public in general many times we hold in what we feel just to get through it. We have no idea how they feel individually after the media circus has departed. For all we know they are falling apart inside just like we are.

I had so many people tell me that I was strong, and I still do, because I do lots of things in my ministry work and interface with people all the time. I talk of my son's life, my loss, my faith, and my desire to still be here, in another country, working to serve people here in need, despite my terrible loss and how I miss my family and the conveneinces and comfort of being 'home'. They see me as strong. But I am quick to say that my strength comes from the Lord. It is not my own. I have many days (behind the scenes) when I completely fall apart........

[4everjoeysmom]

Another thought on "olden days"... Back in the days before and after Christ throughout the Bible, there are "periods of wailing and mourning" as well. This society of today that we live in has imposed a lot of "ideals" on us, including how and when to mounr, how and when to 'get over it', as well as how to be politically correct. I'm waiting for the day when they tell me how and when to pee....

[mofirefly]

Claudia - Thanks for making me laugh today. Take Care!

[jackiewitter]

Rodless, You are so very right. I read an article the other day that talked about a weeping cup. In Biblical times they actually had a cup that they shed and saved their tears in. Those times the tears were precious and would save them because it showed their love and passion for someone. Today's society simply does not allow the time or compassion for extent of grief. I know that I will be better, but I also know now that I will never be the same. There have been huge parts of my life ripped from me and the thought that I would get past this and go back to who I was is asinine. If I lost a let or an arm then I would not do things in the same manner as I did before. By that same thought process, I have lost a mother, father and a brother, I am no longer who I was before. Even my closest friends do not get that. They want me to "snap out of this" and be who I was, but I am not and never will be again. I pray each day for the peace that allows me to continue on without them, but I have come to the understanding that my life has been permenantly altered and it will never be the same again. The goal now is to make this life the best that I can and so that when I am with them again, they will be proud. I also agree this is board is one of the greatest things I have found since my brothers death. Just to be able to say what you feel is such a great release. Take care rodless, peace and blessings. Jackie

[rodless]

On a really bad day I found myself making noises I had never heard before, and the word keening came to mind... probably from some book I've read. It's defined as "a wailing lamentation for the dead." Lamentation is another word that society has erased. Somehow keening and lamenting describe how I feel better than grieving or mourning. They seem louder and more in tune to the despair. Mary Jo

[jackiewitter]

MaryJo, I don't mean to make light of it, but I too have noticed different noises. I use the word "oh Jeff" alot. It's not just OH, but more of a moan. Almost to the point I am annoying myself. The feelings that I have are indescribable. There are no words for them, but I feel Lamentation. I feel the words ache, emense, and broken. Another good word is wail...I would like to wail, scream, moan. I would like for someone else to take notice that Jeffrey is not here. I think that is the saddest part, I get up every morning with the acute awareness that he is no longer here, but for most of the rest of the world, he's been replaced like the latest American Idol. If my Mom were still living, she would moan with me. I think that is one of the saddest parts for me, the two people who loved my brother more than me are actually with him now. I feel like they left me behind! Take care girl and when you feel like keening, go right ahead, I will keen with you. Peace and blessings, Jackie

[sidvis]

I too make the strange sounds. It is like it comes from "way down" and I've never heard myself like that before. After a 'bout of that I usually feel alot better. I always just really go with it, just let it all out. I am glad when it strikes when I am alone, because it is hell to have to suppress it if my kids are around. I will go in my closet and wail into a towel to muffle the sound. That works I think, they never act like the hear me. It does upset them to see me upset. I mean really upset, not just crying. You know, the "keening." What a strange but natural state we are in. Peace.

[mysterious]

Where do I begin is the question? well I am from the UK and I have 5 Living sons and I do love them all to bits they are my world.

I split with my ex back in 2005 and he has my 4 sons, my baby the 5th son is to the person I am now with in a new relationship.

Last year I fell pregnant quiet quick really was so looking forward to my second child to my new partner, unfortunately in dec 20th 2006 I lost my baby through a misscarriage I would of been 1 day out of 18 weeks, my world fell apart fast.

My partner was not supportive far from what I expected, I was alone, thought his family and my family was going to be there for me no one was, no one cme to the hospital, no one came to the house, no one rang me up on the phone and sadly no one came to my babies funeral. To this day it is the same, I made efforts but for some reason no one wants to know. Feb 06th 2007 my mum passed away, I never got told she was in hospital dieing from family, took one my sons who found out to tell me, when I did see her well I tried to say my sorries to her and forgave her, few days after seeing her she died.

The man I am with who supposed to love me well he has been very understanding to the point he has tried to have me sectioned 3 times and has turned people against me, just lost the baby and armed police came to my house without me knowing they was coming, I was yes upset losing my baby but wow armed police that would of shot me for some story he told people I supposed to of done which I know I did not do, was locked up in a cell charged 3 times with different versions of a offence i knew I never did, the charges was dropped I was cautioned yet my face is now on a computer screen with my finger prints etc.

My life has been anightmare even last week I got out the car was upset just visited babies grave and just because I got out the car and walked on grass not the road Police seen me there wanted to know I was ok, I told them I needed sopace wanted to be alone thats why i got out the car, where did I end up because my partner keeps bringing up the same thing I am crazy, I ended up at a police station for another assessment by police docters, I have not been diagnosed with anything yet I am so hurt how family and even my partner are so cold towrds me,

My partner was warned about going austrailia this sunday due to things I told them I did not feel it was the right time to go, the police said to him if he goes he would have my son put in care and me put away. He cancelled it at that time to keep us both, what has he decided to do now, he going austrailia not on the date planned but in a few weeks any way leaving us behind, we was invited later on but the journey would not be right for my son he 11 months and I am scared of heights.

I wanted to go somewhere else, he not willing to compromise, he so caught up with a man he met only once dosn't really know him he going he said.

I feel a big reject button being pressed all the time, I started councilling had my assessment was told to go back in 2 weeks I went back, told the

coucillor everything in my life the loss of baby and mum etc and she said I cannot help you I feel you need someone like a refuge womens aid.

I was appalled. Every direction I went in it was like a door slammin in my face. I feel this huge weight on me, more I try be positive try find happiness it gets ripped from me.

I wish I new what I did so wrong to deserve all this mess. Just because I grieve I get punished in some way, Can't go out without feeling someone will stop me and take me away. Partner rebooked his flight today and said he going no one will stop him had no thought about me or his son what may happen.

I have tried till I am blue in the face trying to explain to him financial problems need sorting, other things too, it ok having a break but why take off now when things are in a real mess.

I was told I am doing the right thing not going. I wish I could go somewhere, never ever had a holiday in my life.only france with a school trip years ago thats it. partner been abroad lots.

So i know where I stand we are on verge now breaking up, he never lets me go anywhere unless he there, my money what bit i can get he will try take so my independance i need to get back.He loves playingon my past, I was the fool telling him what happened to me as a kid growing up my mistake thought I was being honest.

I have been close the edge few times lately and even though he knows or has witnessed something he carries on upsetting, I got told our son we lost has gone get over it and move on, I know men grieve different but the baby did no wrong to anyone and it upsets me how he has been labelled anobody. He had everything arms legs face the lot.

My mum well she gone.

It hurts everyday, I get this feeling and when it starts I just want it to go away and it won't.

I feel so bad somedays, other days I can be a bit better.

When I get to a point I feel i getting somewhere, someone comes along and starts causing me some problem.

I will be moving out soon, cannot stay here where I am any more too many bad memories and what happines I had here has gone. ???

[rodless]

Mysterious, so sorry to read your story. It sounds like you have more than enough to deal with. Sometimes it just helps to spill it out so keep poting with how you are doing. Mary Jo

[rodless]

I'm glad to know I'm not alone with the strange sounds. I don't have children at home but my dog doesn't like it when I go off the deep end so I have to watch out for her.... a pillow in a closet works great, and I, too, also feel better after I've keened or lamented for awhile. Mary Jo

[4everjoeysmom]

I know I've mentioned this before on BI somewhere, but all the talk of strange sounds reminds me of:

Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;

I know I have cried out to God before, many times, not knowing how to take my next breath, and I'm quite sure He has "groaned" on my behalf...

Mysterious, I am so sorry for all that you are going through. Mary Jo is right. Sometimes it just helps to spill it all out and know there are people here that are willing to listen and offer prayers and moral support. I will pray for you...

Hugs all! Claudia

[sidvis]

Thank you Claudia! It never ceases to amaze me that I always find such words of comfort here. Thank you so much for the verse. It really got to me.

[rodless]

Claudia, ditto to what sidvis said. Thanks. Mary Jo

[angels4me]

Hello Everyone,

I've been reading all of your messages in regards to making strange sounds, and what "Jeffreyssister" said about "In Biblical times they actually had a cup that they shed and saved their tears in. " I really don't think they would have had anything large enough to hold my tears in. I still remember the first Grief & Loss message board I ever joined; I had the screen name "OceansOfTears" because that is exactly what I felt I had cried after losing all of my loved ones.

I was interested to know if in addition to these strange sounds, do any of you experience strange things going on in your houses, or where you work at?

Lately I believe my loved ones have been finding ways for them to let us know they are close by. Back in Dec my sister said her co-workers were always complaining about their work being out of order, knowing that they had just put all of the paper work in alphabetical order, or some of my niece's things that my sister has sitting on her shelf would be on the floor when she'd go into her office in the mornings. Most of the time it makes everyone feel creepy inside, but my sister just tells them it's just Tina's little ways of letting you know she's around.

At first most of these things would only happen over at my parents house where my sister now lives with my brother, but it wasn't long after things started occurring there, that we started noticing things at my house too. Most of the time things such as our TV will turn off by itself. When it first started happening, my DD would yell at me to see if I had the remote, but when I pointed out that the remote was on the other side of the room, and I prove that I didn't touch the buttons, she'll get frustrated and make some comment like "They're at it again mom" or if she is really mad then she'll say something like "Knock it off you guys" Over the years we've become accustomed to these incidents, and carry on each day letting them know that we are aware that they are near by.

The anniversary of losing my dad just passed on 2-28, and just like the anniversary of everyone else there's always that pain that I feel deep down inside where my heart is forever scared. It gets easier each year, but the scars will never be gone until the day God calls me home, and I’ll finally be with them all once again.

It still doesn't seem to matter how long they've been gone, there still isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of them all, and find yet another tear to add to the “Oceans of Tears” that I’ve collected over the years.

Well thanks for letting me share. It’s always nice to have a place where I can go to with others who understand what life is like after losing a loved one, and I told have to be afraid to talk about my loved ones no matter how long ago they passed away. Keeping their memories alive is what gets me through each and every day.

Love & Prayers to all,

Peggy.

In Loving Memory

My Son 10-24-84

My Mom 11-12-99

My Niece Tina 12-04-00

My Dad 02-28-01

[4everjoeysmom]

Signs and Wonders is a tough topic. My faith truly abides in the God of the Bible, Jesus--God incarnate who died and was resurrected for the salvation of mankind, and the Holy Spirit--third in the Godhead that abides in the saved. There is no half-belief. Either I believe in the God of the Bible and all that is written, the infallible inspired Word of God as it was written in its original form (Hebrew Old Testament, Greek New Testament), or I seek outside of the Bible--which if it doesn't come from God means it must come from somewhere else. This is a difficult and freaky topic to study, because so often as we are flesh and live in a fallen world, so much appears before us that seems true just because it's there. I ALWAYS go to the Scriptures, my Life Book, to see what God says about something. Because if I claim to believe in the God of the Bible, I can't be picky about what I choose to believe in. I either believe it all, or I become a heretic if I add or subtract and then its no longer the Truth of God. (I am merely sharing a Biblical view here, so those that don't agree can do their own study and obtain their own answers from wherever they choose. I choose the Bible.)

Scripture says of signs in the context of what we as mankind desire...

Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;

Mat 12:40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

In this, it refers to the sign of three days from the time of Christ's crucifixion to the time of resurrection. In the resurrection lies the Hope for Salvation and eternal life. The fact that Christ died to save me is all the "sign" I need to believe.

I have wanted so much to have a dream of Joey, some kind of sign. And I read of so many people receiving signs. But I know God tells me not to seek signs. Have you heard the old adage, be careful what you ask for? Well, I take that to heart. Because in summoning signs, we very well could summon signs from spirits of a world we don't truly want to know.

In the Bible, Jesus speaks a parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Lazarus is in Abraham's Bosom (the place is now heavan after the resurrection of Christ) and the Rich man is in Sheol (the place is now Hell after the resurrection of Christ). The Rich Man could see Lazarus there but he could not speak to him or communicate with him. The rich Man was hot and wanted a drink of water, and he wanted so much to ask Lazarus, but God said Lazarus would not hear him calling out. Then the Rich Man wanted to warn his relatives to straighten up and not end up where he was, but God said he could not communicate across the realm of where he was. Nothing is sadi about Lazarus being able to communicate outside of his realm. In fact, there is no place in the Bible that agrees with the concept of the dead sending signs to their grieving loved ones to comfort them. The Scripture clearly says in many places that seeking omens, practicing divination--mediums, fortune telling, sorcery, etc--is evil in God's sight. So from that information it's enough to tell me clearly that these things are not of God. It's quite scary really...

So in the case of signs, I believe they can happen, because they do. But I think the source of the signs are most often misunderstood and misinterpreted. I'll stick with God... and the signs He gave are enough to tell me that my faith in Him and His dying for me is the only sign I need to know with certainty that my loved one is well and eternally living with him, and that I will indeed see Joey. I don't need any other sign to tell em this--from Joey or otherwise. And if I seek omens or signs, I would do so at my own risk without God's blessing...

Honestly i think things like this are why the Bible turns off so many people. because It doesn't fall in line many times with the way we think or what we want. But I have to believe God knows above what i think or want what is truly best for me. Otherwise He would not have given the Gift of the Word, my Life Book, to follow and live by, to remain safe and in His purpose for my life.

Tough Topic, huh? Anyway, Angels4me, I am terribly sorry for your losses and the Oceans of Tears. In reading the year you lost your son... was he an infant or a small child? I lost my son Joey on july 31st this past year, and I have to say it is the worst thing I can ever imagine I will go through. I'm sure life will continue to bring trials my way, but I just can't imagine anything worse... In that way I truly began to identify the pain suffered when the Ultimate son was crucified... Sure he rose alive and well, but there must have been a horrendous pain to The Father in those moments of torturous death and taking the sins of the world upon Him. I can't even imagine. I just know my own pain. I'm so sorry for your pain... Blessings & Hugs, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

An intersting link on this topic...

http://www.probe.org/cults-and-world-religions/cults-and-world-religions/communicating-with-the-dead.html

[angels4me]

Dearest Claudia,

Please allow me to say Thank You for responding to my message, and to let you know how sorry I am for the loss of your precious son Joey.

I do hope and pray that my message didn't give you the impression that I am some sort of psychic, and can talk to my lost loved ones. If it did, then please allow me to reassure you that in no way is any of this true. I do believe in writing letters to my loved ones, and writing poems in honor of them is beneficial to me and to others too. I believe that my messages are my ways of showing my love for them, especially now that they are no longer here with me.

In the beginning when my losses occurred, everyone told me to trust in my Heavenly Father to help me through the difficult days, and in the beginning, it was God that I look toward to help me in every way possible. I just never expected things to get worse as they did.

When my niece passed away, I started to ask God why I had to suffer so much. My niece was like a baby sister to me, and I had the hardest time accepting her death. I couldn’t understand why God took her from me, It didn’t seem to matter how many time I asked the question “Why” God never seemed to answer me, and once my dad passed away just two month later, I couldn’t deal with the pain anymore.

I found myself mad with the Lord and I lost all hope in Him, and the ability to heal from the pain in my life. I wanting God to hurt as much as I was hurting, so I turned my back on him, walked away, and looked for things to do that would break his heart. I knew in God’s eyes that losing one of his sheep would cause him pain, so that’s what I did. I went on this way for a long time, and then one day a wonderful friend explained to me that God never wanted to hurt me, but He did want me to surrender my life, and the pain over to Him. It was a Sunday morning at church when I went to the Lord and asked if he could understand my pain, and that was when he said to me “Now you know how I felt when they nailed my Son to the cross” With that answer, I was then able to surrender my life, and start a new life with him once again.

Well that is my response to the first part of your message. I will respond to the part of your message regarding the loss of my son in another post.

Once again, let me say Thank You for your response, and offer you my deepest sympathies on your loss.

Love & Prayers,

Peggy.

[angels4me]

Dear Claudia,

To answer your question regarding the loss of my son Alex, I was in my second trimester, when I went to the Dr’s because of complications. He performed a quick exam, and told me to get to the Hospital ASAP as I was about to hemorrhage. I rushed myself to the Hospital, and was taken into the OR where he performed a complete D&E. The next morning my DH came to the Hospital and took me home where I was alone to grieve the loss of our first child.

A week later the Dr. called me with the results of the autopsy. I’ll never forget what he said to me that morning. His words were, “Mrs. ______, during the autopsy, we could only find placental tissue, but we we’re unable to find a baby present.” I asked him what he was talking about, and he told me that I must have aborted the fetus without knowing it, possibly while going to the bathroom before rushing to the Hospital. I told him he was totally wrong, but he wouldn’t give me any other explanation.

After I recovered from the surgery, I returned to work, but no one wanted to help me. Most of the people at work just told me that I should forget about it, and just get over it. I did my best trying to forget, but the horrible nightmares I suffered with didn’t make forgetting about my loss any easier.

Two years later when I gave birth to my son, he was diagnosed with a congenital skin disease called Ichthyosis, but they didn’t know what type it was. When he was two, and I was pregnant again, we took him to have a skin biopsy done. The results of the biopsy were positive for X-linked Ichthyosis, and it’s only dominant in males. The Geneticist told us that it was highly possible that our first pregnancy ended the way it did due to the baby having the same condition, and it causes the fetal tissue to be reabsorbed into the lining of the placenta. She said in most cases the Dr’s don’t know what they’re looking for, and tell their patients that it was a spontaneous abortion.

You can only imagine what this news did for me. It was a huge relief knowing that I didn’t flush my son all those years before, but even this news didn’t bring back my son, nor did it get rid of the guilt I felt knowing that I had passed this disease on to each one of them.

After the loss of mom, dad, and Tina, I went looking for some more answers to put the past behind me. I ordered my medical records from the Hospital and took them to my Dr. to have them explained to me. She looked through them, and told me that the Dr had lied to me about the autopsy, there was in fact fetal tissue found, and many other things that were not true. I’ll never understand why this happened to me, and maybe it was the Dr’s way of protecting me, and it was devastating to hear the truth, but I do know one thing for sure. My son Alex is now living with Jesus, and he has his Nana, Pop, and cousin Tina to watch over him until I get there myself.

Well I hope that helps, if you want to know anything else, please feel free to ask.

Love & Prayers,

Peggy.