Moving from Loneliness to Aloneness

[KayC]

Iris said she is learning to move from Loneliness to Aloneness last night, it struck me as a very important part of our journey.
It takes longer to achieve than just saying it though, it's not a static term, we kind of move back and forth with it for a while before achieving it.

[Roxeanne]

Interesting Kay ! What is the different meaning of the two words ? It seems to me that loneliness is inflicted and aloneness is choice...

Is it true ?

[KayC]

Kind of...one is from outside, one is inside, aloneness you can be at peace with it, like if your home is your sanctuary.  Loneliness is such a tugging at your heart, not at peace.  We can still miss them even if at peace with it.  Hard to describe but totally a change in state of mind.  

https://choosemuse.com/blogs/news/alone-vs-lonely

[KayC]

And aloneness does NOT mean you wouldn't choose your spouse again if given a choice.  But for now you are content.

[Boggled]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:40 AM, KayC said:

one is from outside, one is inside, aloneness you can be at peace with it, like if your home is your sanctuary.  Loneliness is such a tugging at your heart, not at peace.  We can still miss them even if at peace with it.  Hard to describe but totally a change in state of mind.  

I'm not sure when this change occurred for me, but I'm at the "home is your sanctuary" place.   

And you're right, KayC, I also think "it's a very important part of our journey."

[goldberry]

I feel like the loneliness I felt Before I met and married my husband was a different animal altogether than lonely feels now.  That Before me was alone and satisfied with that much more than I was lonely- but that was after many years of working really hard at liking myself/resolving my trauma stuff enough to enjoy my own company so much.  So my lonely then was a bunch of "what if's"- what if I never fall in love, what if I'm doing it "wrong" etc.   Young fears with young judgments.  

The loneliness now is of the "what now" variety.  What now that my world has collapsed, what way forward when I don't want to talk to anyone but the one person I can't, what is my relationship to myself, the world, divinity etc. when my interpreter and co- creator and playmate has gone? I'm not to the point in my healing of liking being alone yet.  I miss that though, so much.   It feels like it's behind a misty curtain just out of sight, that enjoyment of solitude.  So, for now, Lonely.  Often lonelier with people around than when it's just me and the cats.   But a different lonely than the young version because it sits right beside a felt sense of true love and kindred connection  So both harder to lose and something that offers great solace and gratitude.  Like life when you really pay attention:  the yin and the yang, the light and the dark, the pain and the joy.  Lonely because I was gifted with love.  You gotta take the package as a whole.  My friend was telling me that her sister is trying to shield her child from all the world's pain.  Understandable in theory but oh, what you miss of life when your drive is to avoid pain.  I don't like this pain but I'd take it again and again knowing the richness of the love that drives it

[shawnt]

When put in terms of if I never was loved so fully I would not feel this terrible grief than I would choose the love no matter the risk. That thought somehow makes this a little more bearable.

[foreverhis]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:57 AM, Boggled said:

I'm not sure when this change occurred for me, but I'm at the "home is your sanctuary" place.   

And you're right, KayC, I also think "it's a very important part of our journey."

I also agree with Kay. At first and for a long time, I was lonely. I had never fully understood “being alone in a crowded room” until then. Even when the other people in the room were close family and friends, I felt separate, in a bubble almost. I could hear and even respond, but most of me didn’t engage because I was so lonely for John.

Our home was the worst and the best place for me. The worst because he wasn’t here. Yet the best because it’s filled with him, with everything “ours,” with memories. It was and is the one place I didn’t have to think about “putting on the brave face.”

It took years for me to be able to say I, me, my, and mine instead of we, us, our, and ours. Longer still to have it feel “normal .” John is still present for me every day, just in a softer way. His love and acceptance of me, flaws and foibles and all, is a precious gift that I carry inside. I am also lucky enough to have people who love me/us who not only support me as “me,” but who help bring John along on this journey.

Being alone, either at home or out somewhere, is different now. Maybe it’s just getting used to and accepting that his physical presence has gone. But whatever the reason, being alone is something I can live with for however long I am still here.

At first, there were days I thought my loneliness and grief would kill me. I wondered if my shattered heart would simply give up. And sometimes I hoped it would. I still miss him every minute and always will, but now my heart beats for us and for the life we had together. It also beats just for myself and for the life I am cobbling together bit by bit.

[Boggled]

22 hours ago, foreverhis said:

John is still present for me every day, just in a softer way. His love and acceptance of me, flaws and foibles and all, is a precious gift that I carry inside.

Me too.  As far as carrying Steve's love and acceptance of me, it's still a very solid "fact" that it seems I have totally internalized.  "Aloneness" is okay.  

22 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Being alone, either at home or out somewhere, is different now. Maybe it’s just getting used to and accepting that his physical presence has gone. But whatever the reason, being alone is something I can live with for however long I am still here.

At first, there were days I thought my loneliness and grief would kill me. I wondered if my shattered heart would simply give up. And sometimes I hoped it would. I still miss him every minute and always will, but now my heart beats for us and for the life we had together. It also beats just for myself and for the life I am cobbling together bit by bit.

Me too!  Well said, foreverhis.  Sigh.  It's "okay."  Not at all the same, but way way better than it was at the beginning of "after."

[Boggled]

Yesterday I had another realization:  insofar as connecting with other people since Steve died, I haven't had good luck with COUPLES.  The couple I went kayaking twice with, is a case in point.  They are both nice people.  But the husband was very solicitous and helpful towards me ... maybe over-solicitous, when it came to dragging the kayaks over parts of the river (that at that time was really low from droughty weather), he dragged his and my kayaks!  while I tried to help but really he did the pulling ... and his wife just dragged her own kayak!  (hahahaha!)  I would've gotten pretty darned grumpy if my husband had done that!  ... anyhoo ... after that particular kayaking trip, his wife who had been friendly and talkative ... stopped looking at me and stopped talking to me ... and when my son had come to visit, we went to their house to give them a little gift (some candied ginger) and she wouldn't even come out of the house to talk to me, only her husband did!  (...  well I'm laughing again but really I can see her side!) .... anyway, I tried calling for her, got her husband, who again was very nice and polite and promised to come visit "soon," ... but they've never visited.   

There's a togetherness about couples that you don't want to ... interfere? ... with.  

so.  anyhoo.  so walking around in the house talking to myself, "you're an INDIVIDUAL now, (but Steve is still here in my mind and heart and I still talk to him!) ... but still, "you're an INDIVIDUAL now."  "You need to find INDIVIDUAL people to be friends with."  And being friends might mean talking or playing or listening to music together, but it's not the same as having a spouse.  And I personally really don't want to find another spouse (I'm old-ish!) because in my particular case it's more like I don't want to "dilute" the "spouse-experience" I had with the person I loved so very much.  

What can I do to make "things" better?  is another thing I asked myself yesterday.  But I'm 17 months into this grief now.  

and this morning, I'm thinking about ... my husband did this, my husband did that (for instance, he was the one who contacted people, talked with people on the phone, found people to do repairs, knew electrical and electronics.)  How do I do those things if I ever need them?  I'm STARTING to talk on the phone.  I have a friend I actually initiate a telephone call to ... and man, is that new and odd! 

[LMR]

I just had a rather extreme example of the couples issue this morning. I had an email from a lifelong friend of my husband who says his wife has forbidden him to write to me anymore!! I am in UK, they are in Australia, we are all over 70.

I just sat and cried, another link lost. There aren't many left now, people who might actually mention his name, tell me a story.

Or is it an excuse??? That he's tired of writing? Others gave up long ago.

[KayC]

No, I would believe him when he said that.  That is just so sad.  He could have included her in it.  She obviously doesn't understand how important it is to maintain those ties/links to our spouse!  To hear their name, to somehow remember them with someone.  I never had that issue as all of them dropped me two weeks later when we had his memorial, some even beforehand.

[LMR]

Thanks Kay. I checked on his previous email and he was actually chasing me up for not replying sooner so it really must be her. Sad woman. I have written back and hope it makes her feel like a heel.

[KayC]

Me too.

[Boggled]

4 hours ago, LMR said:

I just had a rather extreme example of the couples issue this morning. I had an email from a lifelong friend of my husband who says his wife has forbidden him to write to me anymore!! I am in UK, they are in Australia, we are all over 70.

I just sat and cried

It's terrible, LMR.  And the sadness is BAD, I sat and cried quietly in my kayak when I realized her attitude had changed so radically.  But I remember back back back, to a time when a cute sweet young female teenager had come to our house ostensibly to sell us a candle, but then went out on the back deck and spent maybe 45 minutes to an hour, sitting next to him on our swing, talking to my husband ... and how I felt!   Which started out as "why doesn't he come and ask me to come talk with them? ... shifted to "when is she going to leave?" ... to "what are they talking about?"  ... and onwards and upwards to "she better leave my husband alone!"   so I can understand.  Jealousy is part of love.  

Anyway, it's terribly sad.  TERRIBLY sad for you!  

[Roxeanne]

5 hours ago, LMR said:

who says his wife has forbidden him to write to me 

I suspect that for a friend of mine! We went out together one time a week to see nice places i saw with my loved one years ago...until March! Then he was not longer available...

The funny thing is that is wife is not more with him...she lives alone now! Some kind of weird separation ..

But anyway i think she forbidden him to see me again, i don't think she is jealous of me...but of the time he dedicated to me.

I don't know but anyway i miss that time together...it was nice go outside and enjoying some nice places...it was a little help for my lonely life!

Not even this!

[widower2]

23 hours ago, LMR said:

I just had a rather extreme example of the couples issue this morning. I had an email from a lifelong friend of my husband who says his wife has forbidden him to write to me anymore!! I am in UK, they are in Australia, we are all over 70.

I just sat and cried, another link lost. There aren't many left now, people who might actually mention his name, tell me a story.

Or is it an excuse??? That he's tired of writing? Others gave up long ago.

Frankly I'm not sure who disgusts me more: the petty insecure b#### of a wife or the husband who lets her dominate him in such a lame way. I think I would literally laugh out loud if I was married to someone who tried to "forbid" me from being in contact with someone. Sorry to hear this.

[KayC]

I started this thread largely with Iris in mind, thinking of the changes I've made over the years, from having George, to losing him and feeling frantic, trying to rebuild my life again...to being at peace (finally!) learning to live with me, just me, and deal with everything that comes along in life, and there has been much.

Iris was advertising for a roomate two days ago. Yesterday she wanted to lease her house furnished and move to Mexico.  She's talking of selling Jazzy or having whoever leases take her.  WHAT?!  She doesn't love her as I love Kodie...or even Jazzy.  But I can't take Jazzy with these hands.    I worry about what will happen to her with someone so unstable.  She's more all over the place than I ever thought of being.  I wonder what it will be tomorrow.  This is a journey, a journey of finding peace within ourselves.

[Goforth860]

I am still lonely as hell without my John.  The loneliness is breath taking and deafening. I stay to myself in MY house. He helped me do stuff in this apt but I did the majority of the stuff in here. I didn't get to move in her til a few months after he passed. So this apt is just all mine. I only do things with a cpl ppl and I only do what I am absolutely positively SURE I can handle to start and finish. If I have the energy mentally physically emotionally spiritually.  Any of the other ly's. If I'm 7off the slightest I will not do anything. I realize that I'm not prepared to handle myself in one way shape or fashion and don't want to put someone else through my mood swing or my roller coaster emotions. But I especially don't want to have to endure something traumatic for any amount of time but I would definitely suffer in silence until I was able to get home. Get behind my locked doors and windows. I hope Iris is ok and can get some kinda grip on her roller coaster of emotions and thoughts and that she takes time to make any big decisions. Now the aloneness I can handle and I am good with. I've always been alone in some way.

[KayC]

51 minutes ago, Goforth860 said:

I only do things with a cpl ppl

??

[Boggled]

On 10/29/2023 at 1:59 PM, goldberry said:

The loneliness now is of the "what now" variety.  What now that my world has collapsed, what way forward when I don't want to talk to anyone but the one person I can't, what is my relationship to myself, the world, divinity etc. when my interpreter and co- creator and playmate has gone? I'm not to the point in my healing of liking being alone yet.  I miss that though, so much.   It feels like it's behind a misty curtain just out of sight, that enjoyment of solitude.  So, for now, Lonely.  Often lonelier with people around than when it's just me and the cats.   But a different lonely than the young version because it sits right beside a felt sense of true love and kindred connection  So both harder to lose and something that offers great solace and gratitude.  Like life when you really pay attention:  the yin and the yang, the light and the dark, the pain and the joy.  Lonely because I was gifted with love.  You gotta take the package as a whole.

The "what now" question hit me right from the very beginning, and I'm still looking for smaller and smaller answers.  I WAS going to go kayaking, biking, get out, be healthy ... didn't happen.  It was like my mojo was still stronger back then and has slowly changed and seems to have disappeared!  Instead, now I'm more looking at "meditate at least a short time because I know it helps me feel better," and just LITTLE "realizations" as I'm ever so slowly changing into an INDIVIDUAL again rather than a WIFE.  (but I'll always remember Steve!  and miss him!   Sooooo much, sooooo much!)  BUT for me, it doesn't affect the "home is my sanctuary" feeling, or the "moving from loneliness to aloneness" um ... movement.  I don't know why I don't feel the "loneliness" so much most of the time.  I think I'd mentioned in this or another thread recently, that I had ... like ... come into another state of consciousness, where I suddenly was AWARE, "hey, it's QUIET around here!"  ... but sank back out of it.  The really peculiar thing is that I only NOTICED it ... for a brief time!   

Maybe I still have this strong calm person inside that's okay with the solitude?  

And the wanting to avoid being around other people too much ... I THINK it's because this thing in me that's reaching out for Steve, the connection, that causes the pain and the grieving, but that's also such a great mystery, is so consuming that, regardless of anything else, I'm spending time with that.  I need to spend time with that.  Processing?  whatever.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Boggled
another paragraph

[KayC]

1 hour ago, Boggled said:

Maybe I still have this strong calm person inside that's okay with the solitude?  

Yes, and I just suggest people give themselves a chance to discover that, it could take five years to get used to it instead of being wired up helter skelter.  That's often how we are in the beginning.  At least in five years people have usually learned to listen to their inner voice and who they are instead of being reactive.

[Boggled]

there was an old song, "never been to me,"Charlene – I've Never Been To Me Lyrics | Genius Lyrics ... verse 5 (after she talks about all kinds of "kicks" she's gone for in her life):

Hey, you know what paradise is?
It's a lie
A fantasy we created about people and places
As we'd like them to be
But you know what truth is?
It's that little baby you're holding
And it's that man you fought with this morning
The same one you're going to make love with tonight
That's truth, that's love

[Boggled]

16 minutes ago, KayC said:

Yes, and I just suggest people give themselves a chance to discover that, it could take five years to get used to it instead of being wired up helter skelter.  That's often how we are in the beginning.  At least in five years people have usually learned to listen to their inner voice and who they are instead of being reactive.

really, maybe there's a song directly about that?  that "never been to me" song is not quite on point regarding our kind of loss, but it's as close as I can remember as song being, to what I'm "processing" ... 

... and she never says HOW we're supposed to "be with me."   I guess we have to figure that out ourselves?

Edited November 16, 2023 by Boggled
added sentence

[foreverhis]

12 hours ago, widower2 said:

Frankly I'm not sure who disgusts me more: the petty insecure b#### of a wife or the husband who lets her dominate him in such a lame way. I think I would literally laugh out loud if I was married to someone who tried to "forbid" me from being in contact with someone. Sorry to hear this.

Exactly. John and I didn’t “forbid” each other regarding anything. We both had dealbreakers, but they aligned. The typical no cheating, financial decisions made together and finances joint (with each getting just a bit of “fun money” for whatever), no lying (except the little white ones to spare feelings or keep good surprises), and on the same page with child rearing, spirituality, ethics/morals, and being kind to each other as well as others.

We both had opposite sex friends throughout our lives and that continued in our marriage. We were each other’s best friends, but outside our relationship my best female friend was also his best female friend and same with our best male friend. We introduced them and they conveniently married each other. Still married after more than 30 years. And the first to arrive here to be there for me, even before my sister or our daughter.

 I am certain that the wives mentioned above would fall into a dead faint if they knew that John once went on a camping weekend with our other close female friend. She was single at the time and her parents wanted her to go on a “camping club” weekend with them. She was the only single person and by far the youngest. We had already been camping together with her in our friends group and we knew her parents well.

She called me first to ask me if I would be okay with her asking John to go with them so she’d have a friend there and because she trusted him. Of course I said it was fine with me because really either I trusted John or I didn’t. There was no in between. And I knew they’d have fun together. So she asked him, he asked me if I had talked to her, and I said, “Of course. Go have a good time.” So he did. If I had said I wasn’t comfortable with it, he would have stayed home, but I would never have tried to order him not to go.

I am lucky enough to have our friends of both genders in my life. There’s never been a whiff of jealousy or “Stay away from my man.” Sheesh.

 

[KayC]

6 minutes ago, foreverhis said:

Of course I said it was fine with me because really either I trusted John or I didn’t.

Absolutely!  I didn't dictate to George who his friends were or what he could do either!  Love comes with trust.

[DotPark]

4 hours ago, foreverhis said:

I am certain that the wives mentioned above would fall into a dead faint if they knew that John once went on a camping weekend with our other close female friend.

One of my husband's old girlfriends lives several states away and they had remained friends. Fine by me. When they split up, he paid the expenses for her to adopt a baby. (He was the best, he gave parting gifts like a game show.) After we married, he'd go and visit her for a weekend once a year. I called it "Dottie appreciation weekend" because he was always so happy to get home and back to me!  After he died, she sent me photos she'd taken of him on his visits and I don't know, they really creep me out. Sure it's a great photo of him but he's smiling at HER.  I don't ever have to look at the photos but I do feel really petty about it. 

[Goforth860]

@KayC. I only do things with a cpl ppl... stores laundry mat etc.... I don't let ppl in my bubble.  I don't do drama. And the kinda drama y'all are speaking of with the lady telling her husband not to socialize with you. Whew ok.... I've never been jealous.  A man and a woman can be friends without sex being anywhere in the equation. I am still in contact with my ex husband.  We remain friends to this day. 

Tonight the loneliness is overwhelming. I have been struggling the past few weeks.  Many many emotional days at the end of the year. I didn't sleep at all last night. I'm glad I've got all of my girls. Idk what I'd do without my babies. Last night my cats Precious and Cali were my support.  Precious was on my left side curled up ½ on my side and ½ beside me and Cali was on my right side laying against me but I had fur in both of my hands all night. I petted them both all night. I didn't actually sleep but I did get to rest. Them being there with and for me was amazing.  If it weren't for them and my dog Justice I would be so much more lost and depressed.  The roller coaster of emotions would be SO much worse. But they give me a reason to keep going. To get up. To do anything.  They are my motivation. They make the loneliness bearable. Because with them I'm not alone.  I have THEM!!!

[widower2]

7 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Exactly. John and I didn’t “forbid” each other regarding anything. We both had dealbreakers, but they aligned. The typical no cheating, financial decisions made together and finances joint (with each getting just a bit of “fun money” for whatever), no lying (except the little white ones to spare feelings or keep good surprises), and on the same page with child rearing, spirituality, ethics/morals, and being kind to each other as well as others.

We both had opposite sex friends throughout our lives and that continued in our marriage. We were each other’s best friends, but outside our relationship my best female friend was also his best female friend and same with our best male friend. We introduced them and they conveniently married each other. Still married after more than 30 years. And the first to arrive here to be there for me, even before my sister or our daughter.

 I am certain that the wives mentioned above would fall into a dead faint if they knew that John once went on a camping weekend with our other close female friend. She was single at the time and her parents wanted her to go on a “camping club” weekend with them. She was the only single person and by far the youngest. We had already been camping together with her in our friends group and we knew her parents well.

She called me first to ask me if I would be okay with her asking John to go with them so she’d have a friend there and because she trusted him. Of course I said it was fine with me because really either I trusted John or I didn’t. There was no in between. And I knew they’d have fun together. So she asked him, he asked me if I had talked to her, and I said, “Of course. Go have a good time.” So he did. If I had said I wasn’t comfortable with it, he would have stayed home, but I would never have tried to order him not to go.

I am lucky enough to have our friends of both genders in my life. There’s never been a whiff of jealousy or “Stay away from my man.” Sheesh.

 

Exactly, on all counts. We are simpatico.  

[KayC]

11 hours ago, Goforth860 said:

cpl ppl.

My ?? was what does this stand for?  I think ppl stands for people, but still don't know what cpl is.

[Boggled]

cpl ... is "couple."  I think. 

[KayC]

Oh, everything I read said corporal, that makes sense.

[DWS]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:45 AM, Boggled said:

And I personally really don't want to find another spouse (I'm old-ish!) because in my particular case it's more like I don't want to "dilute" the "spouse-experience" I had with the person I loved so very much.  

@BoggledThat's such a great way of describing how I feel. There could be someone way farther down the road that may change my view but for now, I simply cannot cloud and interfere with the specialness of the pairing I experienced with my partner. It does leave me in a very lonely place and, as you asked in an earlier thread, what do we do now?

Before Tom, I had ten years of aloneness and I was okay with it. I'm a very independent guy who does almost anything from cooking and cleaning to carpentry and brickwork but independency can strangely lead to, perhaps, too much aloneness. When Tom came along, I was re-introduced to being a couple and eventually relying on someone else in certain situations. It was so wonderful and now, I struggle with going back to aloneness. There would be occasional short bouts of feeling lonely in those ten years before Tom but loneliness now is so much a part of my present with his absence and the memories of our time together......and yet, I wouldn't want to have another step in to take away this loneliness and complicate the bond that is still there with him. I generally like that we have baggage that we carry (it means we've lived) but this....this is one doozy of a suitcase that's meant for a solo journey for now!

[Goforth860]

@KayC. Yes cpl stands for couple and ppl stands for people.

[foreverhis]

23 hours ago, DotPark said:

After he died, she sent me photos she'd taken of him on his visits and I don't know, they really creep me out. Sure it's a great photo of him but he's smiling at HER.  I don't ever have to look at the photos but I do feel really petty about it.

I can understand that.  In our case, we were both close friends with everyone.  As well, we were all local to each other, even when "local" became a 3-4 hour drive as we and other friends moved a bit.  In your case, she was his friend and you weren't involved with their interactions.  I don't think it's petty now that he's gone for you to be uncomfortable looking at pictures she sent you from their time together.  I really don't.

20 hours ago, widower2 said:

Exactly, on all counts. We are simpatico.  

I feel lucky that John and I had the deep understanding and connection stemming from both love and trust.  The man I had been dating for several months a couple of years before John ended up being so controlling that I honestly became afraid of his reactions.  That relationship put me off dating for more than a year.  It was John, his friendship and kindness and humor, who broke through the wall I had unintentionally erected.

The following is a traumatic story, so anyone feel free to skip it. 

Here's how controlling the man before John was:  I had been trying to figure out a way to break up with him, afraid of how he'd respond.  I mean, I wasn't in love with him and never even slept with him, but he had our future all mapped out.  He had a wedding ring set designed, assumed I'd go along with everything he wanted, decided how many children we'd have, and on and on.  I was creeped out, especially as I realized he was starting to try to isolate me from my friends.  One day he called to say we were going out with some of his friends that night.  I reminded him that I had  "girls night" scheduled with two friends, one of whom had a toddler at home so planning the time wasn't easy.  We were going to early dinner and a movie.  He told me to cancel it.  I said that I didn't want to do that, but offered to meet him after for coffee and dessert or a drink.  He was very angry and said that if I wouldn't put him first to forget it and we'd "talk" later.  I tried to put that out of my mind and went to have a good time with my friends.

The next day, the school principal came to my classroom (private school kindergarten with crappy pay while I finished my second concentration in college) and said she'd take over because my mother had called about an emergency.  Yikes!  I drove to my parents' house where they and my roommate were waiting.  It turned out that my boyfriend had been so angry that he went to a bar, picked up a woman, took her to a hotel, and...well, you know.  They were drunk, had left cigarettes burning, and died in a fire caused by it.  Of course I was sad that they had died; I'm not heartless and I did care about him.  But the other part of me felt a guilty relief that I didn't have to worry about my safety when I broke up with him.  Everyone assumed I was in love with him, so I never breathed a word of anything to anyone, except to John years later.

It was then that I knew I could never be with a man I didn't trust completely or who didn't treat me as an equal partner.  Of course there are many good men in the world. I knew that.  But the whole situation put me off dating for a time and made me question both myself and the men I knew.  I had liked John from the moment I met him, but we were both seeing other people at the time and neither of us believed in dating/sleeping around. 

When John asked me out more than a year after everything, I was thrilled because we were already friends and I felt a real connection with him.  A few years after we married, I asked him why he waited so long  when neither of us were in another relationship.  He said that there was no way he could imagine "swooping in" while I was going through something obviously traumatic.  He felt it would have been immoral or unethical and just plain wrong, even though his intent wouldn't have been to take advantage.  I cannot express how deeply that touched my heart that day.  I already trusted, loved, liked, and respected him, but that was a level even beyond what I already knew.  That's when I told him everything, not knowing how he'd respond when I confessed my relief.  He wrapped me in a hug and said he was sorry I'd had to go through that.  I cried a little knowing that he understood and accepted all of me.

[widower2]

Wow, that is terrible...I'm sorry for all that happened but glad it ended with your getting together with John.  Before I met my beloved I had had mostly horrible experiences with women, in fact the first girl I fell for did a total 180 on me and I didn't date for a very long time after that and when I did, it mostly was a bad experience, and there were times I met someone who seemed really great and we hit it off, but I didn't ask them out and I think that's why. In hindsight on the one hand I kick myself at opportunities lost, on the other hand if I had we would have never met so I won't complain! 

[foreverhis]

@widower2  Thank you.  It was a terrible time.  It was also a learning experience for me.

5 minutes ago, widower2 said:

and there were times I met someone who seemed really great and we hit it off, but I didn't ask them out and I think that's why. In hindsight on the one hand I kick myself at opportunities lost, on the other hand if I had we would have never met so I won't complain! 

I understand!  I was on the opposite side of that equation.  "Thank you for asking, but I'd rather not go on a date right now."  And goodness knows for those 15 or so months it really was a case of, "It's not you.  It's me."

Sometimes I think my heart knew long before my brain acknowledged that John was the one for me.  My heart had melted the first time I heard his laugh and saw his smiling face, a few months before we actually met and started to get to know each other through the same theater and music circles.  By then, we were both dating others.  I just needed to be patient and things would unfold as they should.

[KayC]

Wow, I have horrid stories to share too, but will spare you, let's just say I was with a monster, a controller, and a con.  George was the one that loved me and I him, and we treated each other with respect.  I only got him a few years before he died, but I know I'd be with him still had he not.  It's nice that I have memories that will last me the rest of my life.
I am sorry you both went through your experiences, and yet I can't help but feel that what we went through prepared us to fully appreciate the one we got.  

[widower2]

4 hours ago, foreverhis said:

@widower2  Thank you.  It was a terrible time.  It was also a learning experience for me.

I understand!  I was on the opposite side of that equation.  "Thank you for asking, but I'd rather not go on a date right now."  And goodness knows for those 15 or so months it really was a case of, "It's not you.  It's me."

Exactly...although to be fair part of it was I had no self-confidence about women and was excessively afraid of rejection. There were even times when I was hitting if off with someone and at the end of the night a friend would go "?? You didn't ask her out? ??" Also part of it was my family was/is a train wreck and I didn't want someone I was in a relationship to be part of that, which doesn't bode well for long-term relationships. 

 

4 hours ago, KayC said:

Wow, I have horrid stories to share too, but will spare you, let's just say I was with a monster, a controller, and a con.  George was the one that loved me and I him, and we treated each other with respect.  I only got him a few years before he died, but I know I'd be with him still had he not.  It's nice that I have memories that will last me the rest of my life.
I am sorry you both went through your experiences, and yet I can't help but feel that what we went through prepared us to fully appreciate the one we got.  

I am sorry for what you went through too Kay - ugh. What is wrong with people -

[KayC]

8 hours ago, widower2 said:

I am sorry for what you went through too Kay - ugh. What is wrong with people -

And people wonder why I don't date!

[Boggled]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:08 AM, KayC said:

This is a journey, a journey of finding peace within ourselves.

yup.   YUP.  unlike when we were born, "after" is really hard.  

 

16 hours ago, KayC said:

I am sorry you both went through your experiences, and yet I can't help but feel that what we went through prepared us to fully appreciate the one we got.  

Yup.  

[MarissaSolis]

Absolutely, transitioning from loneliness to comfortable aloneness is a journey worth acknowledging. It's a dynamic shift, not a quick flip of the switch. It's about finding peace and contentment within your own company. And hey, speaking of transitions, if anyone's transitioning to a new place and looking for a comfortable space in Florida, websites like https://threemovers.com/florida/ can help ease that move and make the journey to a new home a bit smoother.

[SSC]

And really it’s coming to terms with accepting this is how life is now.  I don’t think I find much contentment being alone all the time and that’s why I got a dog.  I’m a fairly independent person so I’ve adjusted with doing things on my own even though as a couple we did almost everything together.  My next big step will be traveling abroad alone.  This is something I’VE always wanted to do and even though it won’t be as enjoyable because I won’t have anyone to share it with, it’s still something I want to do before I get to the point of not caring anymore.  
 

 

[KayC]

8 hours ago, MarissaSolis said:

Absolutely, transitioning from loneliness to comfortable aloneness is a journey worth acknowledging. It's a dynamic shift, not a quick flip of the switch. It's about finding peace and contentment within your own company.

Absolutely!  And not a journey made quickly or easily.

Welcome here! I haven't seen you here before but when you are ready, perhaps you can tell us a little about yourself and what brought you here.

Grief Process

This is not a one-size-fits-all, what strikes us one day will be different a few months/years from now, so please save/print this for reference!

I want to share an article I wrote of the things I've found helpful over the years, in the hopes something will be of help to you either now or on down the road.

TIPS TO MAKE YOUR WAY THROUGH GRIEF

There's no way to sum up how to go on in a simple easy answer, but I encourage you to read the other threads here, little by little you will learn how to make your way through this.  I do want to give you some pointers though, of some things I've learned on my journey.

• Take one day at a time.  The Bible says each day has enough trouble of its own, I've found that to be true, so don't bite off more than you can chew.  It can be challenging enough just to tackle today.  I tell myself, I only have to get through today.  Then I get up tomorrow and do it all over again.  To think about the "rest of my life" invites anxiety.
• Don't be afraid, grief may not end but it evolves.  The intensity lessens eventually.
• Visit your doctor.  Tell them about your loss, any troubles sleeping, suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks.  They need to know these things in order to help you through it...this is all part of grief.
• Suicidal thoughts are common in early grief.  If they're reoccurring, call a suicide hotline.  I felt that way early on, but then realized it wasn't that I wanted to die so much as I didn't want to go through what I'd have to face if I lived.  Back to taking a day at a time.  Suicide Hotline - Call 1-800-273-8255 or www.crisis textline.org or US and Canada: text 741741 UK: text 85258 | Ireland: text 50808
• Give yourself permission to smile.  It is not our grief that binds us to them, but our love, and that continues still.
• Try not to isolate too much.  
• There's a balance to reach between taking time to process our grief, and avoiding it...it's good to find that balance for yourself.  We can't keep so busy as to avoid our grief, it has a way of haunting us, finding us, and demanding we pay attention to it!  Some people set aside time every day to grieve.  I didn't have to, it searched and found me!
• Self-care is extremely important, more so than ever.  That person that would have cared for you is gone, now you're it...learn to be your own best friend, your own advocate, practice self-care.  You'll need it more than ever.
• Recognize that your doctor isn't trained in grief, find a professional grief counselor that is.  We need help finding ourselves through this maze of grief, knowing where to start, etc.  They have not only the knowledge, but the resources.
• In time, consider a grief support group.  If your friends have not been through it themselves, they may not understand what you're going through, it helps to find someone somewhere who DOES "get it". 
• Be patient, give yourself time.  There's no hurry or timetable about cleaning out belongings, etc.  They can wait, you can take a year, ten years, or never deal with it.  It's okay, it's what YOU are comfortable with that matters.  
• Know that what we are comfortable with may change from time to time.  That first couple of years I put his pictures up, took them down, up, down, depending on whether it made me feel better or worse.  Finally, they were up to stay.
• Consider a pet.  Not everyone is a pet fan, but I've found that my dog helps immensely.  It's someone to love, someone to come home to, someone happy to see me, someone that gives me a purpose...I have to come home and feed him.  Besides, they're known to relieve stress.  Well maybe not in the puppy stage when they're chewing up everything, but there's older ones to adopt if you don't relish that stage.
• Make yourself get out now and then.  You may not feel interest in anything, things that interested you before seem to feel flat now.  That's normal.  Push yourself out of your comfort zone just a wee bit now and then.  Eating out alone, going to a movie alone or church alone, all of these things are hard to do at first.  You may feel you flunked at it, cried throughout, that's okay, you did it, you tried, and eventually you get a little better at it.  If I waited until I had someone to do things with I'd be stuck at home a lot.
• Keep coming here.  We've been through it and we're all going through this together.
• Look for joy in every day.  It will be hard to find at first, but in practicing this, it will change your focus so you can embrace what IS rather than merely focusing on what ISN'T.  It teaches you to live in the present and appreciate fully.  You have lost your big joy in life, and all other small joys may seem insignificant in comparison, but rather than compare what used to be to what is, learn the ability to appreciate each and every small thing that comes your way...a rainbow, a phone call from a friend, unexpected money, a stranger smiling at you, whatever the small joy, embrace it.  It's an art that takes practice and is life changing if you continue it.
• Eventually consider volunteering.  It helps us when we're outward focused, it's a win/win.

(((hugs)))  Praying for you today.

 

[Placo]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:16 AM, KayC said:

Absolutely!  And not a journey made quickly or easily.

Welcome here! I haven't seen you here before but when you are ready, perhaps you can tell us a little about yourself and what brought you here.

Grief Process

This is not a one-size-fits-all, what strikes us one day will be different a few months/years from now, so please save/print this for reference!

I want to share an article I wrote of the things I've found helpful over the years, in the hopes something will be of help to you either now or on down the road.

TIPS TO MAKE YOUR WAY THROUGH GRIEF

There's no way to sum up how to go on in a simple easy answer, but I encourage you to read the other threads here, little by little you will learn how to make your way through this.  I do want to give you some pointers though, of some things I've learned on my journey.

• Take one day at a time.  The Bible says each day has enough trouble of its own, I've found that to be true, so don't bite off more than you can chew.  It can be challenging enough just to tackle today.  I tell myself, I only have to get through today.  Then I get up tomorrow and do it all over again.  To think about the "rest of my life" invites anxiety.
• Don't be afraid, grief may not end but it evolves.  The intensity lessens eventually.
• Visit your doctor.  Tell them about your loss, any troubles sleeping, suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks.  They need to know these things in order to help you through it...this is all part of grief.
• Suicidal thoughts are common in early grief.  If they're reoccurring, call a suicide hotline.  I felt that way early on, but then realized it wasn't that I wanted to die so much as I didn't want to go through what I'd have to face if I lived.  Back to taking a day at a time.  Suicide Hotline - Call 1-800-273-8255 or www.crisis textline.org or US and Canada: text 741741 UK: text 85258 | Ireland: text 50808
• Give yourself permission to smile.  It is not our grief that binds us to them, but our love, and that continues still.
• Try not to isolate too much.  
• There's a balance to reach between taking time to process our grief, and avoiding it...it's good to find that balance for yourself.  We can't keep so busy as to avoid our grief, it has a way of haunting us, finding us, and demanding we pay attention to it!  Some people set aside time every day to grieve.  I didn't have to, it searched and found me!
• Self-care is extremely important, more so than ever.  That person that would have cared for you is gone, now you're it...learn to be your own best friend, your own advocate, practice self-care.  You'll need it more than ever.
• Recognize that your doctor isn't trained in grief, find a professional grief counselor that is.  We need help finding ourselves through this maze of grief, knowing where to start, etc.  They have not only the knowledge, but the resources.
• In time, consider a grief support group.  If your friends have not been through it themselves, they may not understand what you're going through, it helps to find someone somewhere who DOES "get it". 
• Be patient, give yourself time.  There's no hurry or timetable about cleaning out belongings, etc.  They can wait, you can take a year, ten years, or never deal with it.  It's okay, it's what YOU are comfortable with that matters.  
• Know that what we are comfortable with may change from time to time.  That first couple of years I put his pictures up, took them down, up, down, depending on whether it made me feel better or worse.  Finally, they were up to stay.
• Consider a pet.  Not everyone is a pet fan, but I've found that my dog helps immensely.  It's someone to love, someone to come home to, someone happy to see me, someone that gives me a purpose...I have to come home and feed him.  Besides, they're known to relieve stress.  Well maybe not in the puppy stage when they're chewing up everything, but there's older ones to adopt if you don't relish that stage.
• Make yourself get out now and then.  You may not feel interest in anything, things that interested you before seem to feel flat now.  That's normal.  Push yourself out of your comfort zone just a wee bit now and then.  Eating out alone, going to a movie alone or church alone, all of these things are hard to do at first.  You may feel you flunked at it, cried throughout, that's okay, you did it, you tried, and eventually you get a little better at it.  If I waited until I had someone to do things with I'd be stuck at home a lot.
• Keep coming here.  We've been through it and we're all going through this together.
• Look for joy in every day.  It will be hard to find at first, but in practicing this, it will change your focus so you can embrace what IS rather than merely focusing on what ISN'T.  It teaches you to live in the present and appreciate fully.  You have lost your big joy in life, and all other small joys may seem insignificant in comparison, but rather than compare what used to be to what is, learn the ability to appreciate each and every small thing that comes your way...a rainbow, a phone call from a friend, unexpected money, a stranger smiling at you, whatever the small joy, embrace it.  It's an art that takes practice and is life changing if you continue it.
• Eventually consider volunteering.  It helps us when we're outward focused, it's a win/win.

(((hugs)))  Praying for you today.

 

Thank you for sharing. All of what you have listed I have experienced and agree with your statements. The love of my life crossed over three years ago and it still feels like yesterday.   Two months shy of her retirement and our next chapter together was not forthcoming. I find having daily,  positive affirmations and gratitude are very helpful. Additionally, finding joy soothes, fills my heart, mind and soul with peace. Appreciate you.

[KayC]

Welcome here and consider this article for you as well!  Welcome to our site.

[RichS]

Placo:  Welcome to our board. Lots of nice, sympathetic folks here who understand what you're going through. Please continue to post here.

[Boggled]

an odd thing this morning, as I was lying in my warm bed, my MIND was thinking about the conversation I had with my MIL last night, me saying "I don't think consciousness is physical," and she saying "God is going to take me up," and me asking "physically?" ... anyhoo, as my MIND was pondering away, the HEART of me was missing Steve, and I started to cry, but my MIND was separately examining this "poor heartbroken woman" as my MIND framed it, sobbing for her lost love  ...  !!!!!   

and I wonder, "am I keeping MYSELF company?" as many on here mention loneliness and silence which is certainly the case here, too, but I've been OKAY with it ... so just searched ... am I keeping myself company ... am i keeping myself company - Search (bing.com)

search says, yeah, other people do this too.  (!)  The main thing this morning, though, was that normally I don't feel separate parts of me, but this morning I clearly "felt," my mind is unemotionally pondering one thing, and this other part of "me," I'm thinking of as my "heart," is emoting ... emoting strong and hard.  So my body is crying while my mind is marveling!    

and one of the search results was this quote from Hannah Arendt:  

“Thinking, existentially speaking, is a solitary but not a lonely business; solitude is that human situation in which I keep myself company. Loneliness comes about when I am alone without being able to split up into the two-in-one, without being able to keep myself company.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Life of the Mind

Quote by Hannah Arendt: “Thinking, existentially speaking, is a solitary...” (goodreads.com)

hunh.  So.  I guess I'll get on Amazon and maybe they'll let me read a bit of the book, and read the reviews ... 

I do "think" that I've been doing the "continuing bonds" thing ... (the "clinging" I've mentioned elsewhere has been entirely innate to "me," but it's part of that theory).