Loss of a Mother

[swede1]

Dear Shannimarie/scubidi,

I had responded to one of your other postings, under a different forum ( can't remember which one at the moment and no time to look )but AM sorry I didn't get to this one, too. I have many times shared your frustration with no responses in a timely fashion and all I can say is I'm 'glad' I'm not the only one who's noticed this....but still sorry I personally missed this one. I've been less active on these forums of late because of my own frustrations with this problem. However, now that I'm here.......

When I read your story of your mom, I have to admit I was jealous in a way, as you got the opportunity ( the difficulty of caregiving issues aside ) to spend all that time not only with your mom, but actively helping her through her illness, which I fully realize is difficult in its own way. My Mother, too, slowly lost her mind's function, but never fully, so I was lucky in that regard, but I know how awful it is and how many emotions are stirred up by just that one event alone, never mind the rest of it. For myself, I don't think my Mother really suspected she was dying, either, as she kept talking as if she'd be going back home. This was only days before she had a final stroke, the reasons for which are clouded because of my father's concurrent dementia ( a long story ). In the big picture, though, after the horrible shock and heaviest part of grieving is lessened somewhat, I would encourage you to hang on to that most loving, generous and important way you looked after her. If she didn't know then how big your love was, I'm positive she does now, with her mind restored to sanity in spirit form. It was a precious act of love you did, and that will never be lost. My circumstances were such that this was absolutely impossible to do for my own Mother, and in fact, I wasn't even there when she passed, all alone, with none of my other family (who all lived there) with her, either. At least you were able to provide this loving atmosphere for her to be in, and dementia or not, that energy was passed along to her. I admire you for your efforts and dedication and integrity.

Although my own Mother and me weren't at all what you'd call best friends, she and I were the only ones at all close in our family, so while I can't relate to having a great relationship, I placed more weight on my relationship with my Mother than with anyone else from my family, so the loss of her has been deeply cutting regardless. In fact, I lost my whole family when she, then my brother died, leaving me with only one terribly egomaniacal brother and our even worse father ( his illness only made him MORE of the horrible person he always had been ). So perhaps it feels much the same for each of us, though our circumstances differ greatly. I suspect you feel as much an orphan now as I do.

If you want to converse further, I'd be more than happy to share and will look for further postings from you, in case. It may be that our stories aren't alike enough for what you're after, but I AM sorry you, too, felt invisible here, and I hope this helps change that.

[charsmom2]

To Sama8199:

I just saw your post. I am so sorry for your loss. It seems we have a little in common. I, too, am expecting and just lost my mom fairly quickly. This would have been her second grandchild, my second child. She loved being a grandma and I am glad that she at least was able to be grandma for 22 months before passing. She was very young as well and we were very close. She was in the hospital for 5 weeks and during that time we never expected this out come so we never really got a chance for good byes. Never in our wildest dreams did we think she wouldn't make it. She had a very rare Lung disease called Diffuse Adveolar Damage. I didn't get a chance to share the news of my pregnancy with her as I found out about a week before she passed. I was waiting for the right moment to share my news with her then things went severely down hill. I did share the news with her while she was asleep on the ventilator, but is wasn't the same. This pregnancy has been very difficult for me with the emotions running extra high. I long for her to be here for me to ask questions and share my news with her. I am not looking forward to when this baby is born, because I know it is going to bring out alot more emotions than I am not ready to deal with or face. I miss her every day as I am sure you miss your too. If you ever want to talk email me at jlcwilliams@centurytel.net.

[englishruss]

MORNING FRIENDS.....JUST A QUICK NOT TO SAY HI AND TO WISH YOU ALL SOME STRENGTH AND PIECE OF MIND FOR YOUR NEW DAY.

TO ALL THE "NEW" GUYS...HELLO....TO ALL THE "OLD" GUYS...HOPE YOUR DOING OK...:-)

BEST WISHES AND STAY BRAVE...

FROM A SUNNY AND WARM LONDON.....RUSS ((hugs))

[kris808]

hello everyone.

im sorry for those who had loss someone.

my mom died no to long ago, it was very hard for me to let her go and its very hard to heal from this loss. I think of her everyday and just cry. i wish she was still here with us.I am 16 and she was only 36. we wernt muchclose back then, it\'s because i lived with my grandparents. She found a new man and made 3 beautiful children who are my half brothers and baby sister. sometimes i would hate her and i\'d cry again. but not anymore. it started last year when she had breast cancer. i was scared because i thought something wrong was going to happen to her but my friends said that breast cancer was common around. so i didnt worry much but i would visit her at the hospital with my grandma every day after school and also in the weekends. most of the time it was my step fathers side of the family there and i feel left out cause not much of them really knew that i was her oldest son. i would stand outside most of the times with my brothers and play around with our baby sister. so when she was released out of the hospital i was very happy. she\'d visit more often to our house and play around with her wigs amd sometimes try to scare me with her bald head, but i\'d just laugh and she luagh also. we were so happy. til feb. of 2005 when she came over our house and talked to my grandparents and me and mr brothers would play in my room i heard my mom talking that her cancer had \"advanced\" and somehow traveled to her brain and something wrong with her liver. she also said like the doctors had \"gived up\". i mean they couldnt do anything else. i was like what? whats going on, i was scard once again. i was looking at my grandparents faces and the didnt seem so happy. i was just staring at them, then would just play with my brothers. I was still confused, but i wasnt really worried then cause i didnt really knew what was really going on, i didnt understand. so a week later my grandma wanted me to visit mom with her. so took a ride with my uncles car to their house, my grandma told me to go up stairs and talk with my mom. i walked up the stairs and went to her room. she was just their lying down, she looked helpless. i went up to her and gave her a hugged and she holded on to me and told me that she loved me and that i would forgive her for not being there for me and forgive her of being mean to me sometimes, i was crying and she was crying too, i didnt know why i was...she told me that she would leave soon and i was knodding my head no, no. i couldnt take it anymore so i left the room and ran to the bathroom and cryd.my little brother told me that our cousins had told him that she was gonna die and i didnt believe him, i told him she wanst. but i was still confused. day by day my mom would get weaker so she decided to go to the hospice. she was there for a month and i would visit her and we would have our bible studys and sing along to gospel music that she\'d play in her radio. i was there to hold her hand. she ask the nurse to be releasd so that she could spend time with the kids and everyone. inside i said to myslef she wanted to go out and say goodbye to everyone before she leaves. i was still a junior in high school and summer had started. i would visit her at her house every weeknds to sleepover and spend some times with her. i would take her around the neighborhood in her wheelchair just to get some air and look at all the beautiful surroundings. a month had pass and it was July, my mom and grandma decided that we were to visit her cousins and friends in the philippines. so it was me my mom andgrandparents and my younger sister who went to the philippines. we stayed there for 3 weeks. we were going all around looking at sights, went to enchanted kingdom [similar to Disney World],visiting everyone that we knew. my mom couldnt go to some to them cause she would get tired, i would go to her and she\'d ask for massages. so it was the last week of our vacation and somehow her stomach became bigger, that day i got mad at her for yelling at me and i went outside of the house and i was talking to my grandpa i told her that i hated her for yelling at me, i told him that i didnt want to visit her anymore my grandpa said who will take care of you then i said you guys. so then that night she was rushed to the Asia hospital and they said that there was water going to her liver and thats why her stomach would get bigg. so for the last few days we stay with her till she was released and that we go back home to hawaii. oh yeah we live in the islands. so we once we were back home in the airport my mom , her mind would be thinking something else and that she\'d forget things and she was becoming more sick. so my step dad took dropped us home and they went to their home. a few hours later she decided to go to the hospital. we would visit her again and the whole family would be there too, i wasnt so left out anymore cause we were all enjoying ourselves and we were there together.we would talk about our trip to the philippines and share pictures. 6 days haved passed and suddenly my moms just taking very long naps and that she wouldnt talk anymore, we had to talk through her ears. i cried beside her knowing that she was leaving soon. the nurse had told my grandma that my moms body was shutting down. i was scared i was real scared to lose her. . .i cried and cried i didnt want to leave but she couldnt do anything. my grandma and i and my little sister left till we got a call saying that \"she might not make it through the day\". sigh* im sorry but im just crying again telling this. so then we went back to the hospital and everyone was there. it was lke a party but i saw her and the way seh was breathing. it wsnt normal, it was like she was hicupping and like trying to suck in air, it was 5 seconds that she would breathe in air. i was scared. . .i was beside her holding her hand and everyone had to go home and sleep so evryone talked through her ear to say goodnight and see you tomorrow. i told my grandparents that i wanted to sleep over with my braothers and my step dad. i couldnt sleep that night i was just watching her. that morning my brothers woke up and so did my step dad, he gave us money to buy breakfest and coffee for him. so me and my brothers left to the downstairs cafeteria and ate breakfest then orderd my step dads coffee. so we went back to the room and just watch till an hour later her breathing started to slow down it wasnt 5 seconds it was more like a minute. . . my dad would speak her name so that she would respond but nothing till... till it all stopped. imy heart was beating fast and my step dad called in the nurse and they checked her up. and they tols us she was gone, she\'s gone. no, i cried and i cried and so did my brothers and step dad. i couldnt believe she\'s gone. i understand why we had that vacation to the philippines it was tosay goodbye to everyone. im sorry you guys but its really really hard. we were having so much and we were getting very close, i took evrything back of what i said about her. i wish i could tell her that, also that she could forgive me. everyone came in and i was there right beside her holding her hand and closing my eyes. till we had to go and they had to take her to prepare for her funeral. so it was the day of the viewing and everyone came.i was very mad that they didnt talk with me about being a speaker instead my little brothers were speakers and i just sat down. we also had a slide show again and again there wasnt much photos of me being with here as a child, we had alot of phots at home and no one bothered to come and talk about it. i felt so left out that i just wanted to walk out. but now im okay about it. so it was the final viewing and i went up to the coffin to look at her, she was wearing her bridesmade dress when we went to the philipines for a wedding 8 years ago. she looked so beautiful. i held unto her hand and said goodbye and once again cried. she wrote a letter to everyone before she left, she said thanks you to everyone and i love you all she wrote to me that shes sorry that she wont be here for my graduation and she told me to study hard and look up to God.. . the next day was her funeral. i was a palbearer, we had one last viewing i gave everyone a hugged. then we carried my mom to her burial spot and said our goodbyes and placed our roses on her coffin. we left early i didnt know why, they told me not to look back. . . so now she\'s resting in peace, now shes doesnt have to suffer anymore and is in a better place but i lover her so much and i miss her so bad, i think of her everyday, i cant even concentrate with my studies in school its just so hard. please help me you guys. thanks you all for taking the time to read about my loss. i love you all, God Bless.

Rest In Peace Mom. I Love you and I Miss you very much.

Sept.10 1968 - Aug.09 2005.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Kris808, I'm so sorry for your loss. You have been through so much with your Mom's illness, and all of the shocking things leading up to her death. For such a young child, you've suffered so much pain. The many things you feel, even the day you said the word "hate", are all a part of grieving. Be gentle with your heart. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope you find the peace and comfort you need.

[shannimarie]

Kris808,

Hi there kid. I am so sorry for your pain. Your Mom was a year younger than me, and I have 3 kids. My Mom died August 1, 2005 from cancer. I lost my Dad on July 10, 2005. He died from cancer too. My Mom's cancer was ovarian (Female stuff) and now because I have already had cancer once they are checking me to see if I have what my Mom had. Life can be hard Kris. If you ever want to email me at Redshanni67@aol.com, I would be more than glad to help you out and talk about anything you want. I hope to hear from you. God Bless you.

Shanni

[stellaanne]

My Mom was my life ...I was the youngest and only girl of 5 children...she felt that she finally got the daughter she was waiting for when I was born. I followed her around when I was a child...so much so that she would always sing "me and my shadow, walking down the avenue" when I was around...i wanted to see her put her makeup on, fix her hair, hang clothes on the line, cook,...today I am not sure why but i just know I admired her through her entire life and I still know I could never be 1/4 of the woman she was...

She lived with my father who was demanding and miserable and his father who was a crazy heavy drinker. She remained refined and elegant throughout it all. She wasn't allowed to get a drivers license because my dad feared she would leave him so she was stuck in an abusive home with 5 little kids 24/7.

I was my Mom's support at home...and have pictures of me folding towels as a 4 year old...

As a teenager, I, like most teens thought my Mom had no idea what I was going through...yet my friends would come over and say "wow i wish i had a mom like that...she just hangs out and drinks tea with you like she's your best friend"....and yes until the end that's exactly how it was.

While my dad worked long hours we would sneak away to the seashore or the Mall...go to lunch or breakfast (or both in one day)....and she was funny and so happy to be out enjoying her life. My dad would come home at night and be as miserable as anyone was capable of being...and she would just be quiet and put up with it...

In the year 2000 my father started with different problems..a stroke, loss of kidney, lung problems...and then my Mom had triple bypass and finally Cancer which took her life almost 4 months ago after me kicking a screaming trying to have her live longer.

Now after 5 years of me being care-giver and my Mom's right hand girl I am caring for only my father...a man who never had a conversation with me in my enitre life...my four brothers have families and don't want to be bothered with him....because he is so difficult. I feel like i don't know remotely who I am or could be anymore.

[lemonhead]

stellaanne,

What a wonderful relationship you had with your mom! Your description of your times together were so vivid, I can picture your days as a child in my mind. I am so sorry she is gone now, and you are left to carry on the job as caregiver by yourself. It sounds like your care for your father is something your mom taught you, and is so proud that you continue to do it. From other posts I have read on this site, I think that every family has a \"designated caregiver\". Even though it is never official, someone in the family gets that role. I lost my mom 1 month ago after she suffered a second stoke, 19 years after the first. It was a very trying time in the years I cared for her, and now that she is gone I would do anything to have to care for her right now. During those years, I married, had children and worked part time off and on. My identity had become caregiver to not just my mom but my own little family as well. The jobs I held never lasted long because my obligation to my mom, husband and kids felt too strong. It definitely takes its toll, and I struggle even today on who I am and what I am supposed to do. My mom did always tell me how proud she was of me and how appreciative she was of the time and care I gave her. I know that she taught me everything I know about love, loyalty, and giving to those who need it. You sound like a gem of a daughter, a person with a huge heart.

[swede1]

I was the youngest and only girl of 5 children...she felt that she finally got the daughter she was waiting for when I was born. I followed her around when I was a child.i wanted to see her put her makeup on, fix her hair, hang clothes on the line, cook,...today I am not sure why but i just know I admired her through her entire life and I still know I could never be 1/4 of the woman she was...

She lived with my father who was demanding and miserable and his father who was a crazy heavy drinker.

Stellaanne,

Yes, that was beautiful, despite the difficult parts, and I can scarcely imagine how horrible you must feel now, as I can relate to some of your own life, but unlike yours, mine had much direr consequences because of my own miserable ( and drunken ) father, and in the end, my Mom was terribly ill with many conditions and diseases, including the alcoholism that began her decline. She drank because of her family history and my father's evil ways. I did the same kinds of things you did as a child. She and I were more like a team, being the only females in our family, and she needed the company, frankly. I was also considered special by my Mom, cuz she, too, had been waiting and hoping to have at least one daughter, and while I was a later-life 'mistake', I ended up being the only daughter; my Mom fought to keep me....my father wanted me aborted. Mom won that battle, but few others.

I feel like your mom was what my own Mother could have stayed like, had my father not been as violent as he was. You're extremely fortunate to have had a mother who could withstand such abuses, without changing her internal make-up in order to survive....and that her fortitude allowed you to become such a wonderful daughter, the kind I wasn't able to be to as high a degree because there were too many problems and obstacles for me to overcome, for my Mom to overcome. And yet, I feel the same way you do about my own Mother - I could never be 1/4 the woman she was, despite having different successes of my own. Under the same pressures my poor Mother endured, for the sake of her kids, I would have crashed completely within a few years. So I see my Mom in yours, despite the different choices they made. Your post just made me feel closer to my Mom's spirit again ( it's been a long 1.5 years of grief for me so far )...so thank-you for sharing.

[stellaanne]

swede1 and lemonhead

thank you so much for the responses...i was overwhelmed. I have been feeling so alone. Nights are always hard. I would always talk to my Mom before bed either in person or on the phone...and it always ended with "I Love you, talk to you tommorow." There was a period shortly after she passed that my Dad in a crazed kept saying he wanted to kill my aunt...(because he believed she was responsible for my mom's death for not invited her to a wedding)....and in dealing with the insanity of that plus the loss I really wanted to take my own life.

The reason i didn't end up doing it was mainly because i am the closest thing to the image of my Mom on the planet right now...(i look like her and my voice is exactly like hers)...and so I need to carry on...

I believe it would be a great insult to her if i took my own life. That's a parents worst nightmare. One night i was planning it in my head and crying and I heard this LOUD banging sound going down the hallway outside my bedroom door...it was like she was saying "if you do this I will be extremely disappointed in you"...it scared me to death...and i thought "Mom, i'm upset you should be comforting me" (which she has done other times since her death) but i know that night she was just letting me know that's not the answer.

As you could tell I have had some pretty depressing bouts...

Something a greif counselor told me was...Talking to her picture can help...with anything.

If it's guilt that's eating away at you, put a picture of your mom on a chair and sit and say "I am so sorry that I Did or said or didn't do...." (I would fill it in with "my at times bitchy attitude"....ASK HER FOR FORGIVENESS...and know that in your heart you truly are sorry and express that to her...and then try to move on.

I have talked to her picture (and the grave) and asked for help and strength...and believe me, she's taking care of me now.

[flyingangel]

The last time I wrote to this forum was in July. My mother was murdered by an insane man who claimed to love her. Her loved her so much that he didn't want anyone else to have her. He took her life from her and her family and then took his own. Losing a mother is one of the hardest things to deal with in life no matter how they go but I only wish my mother (if she had to go at such a young age) had gone by an illness. Although it's not easy anyway, to be killed violently is almost too much to bear. I keep busy to avoid the terrible pain. I hurt unbearably in the beginning but I can deal with it better now that I don't have time to think. Everyone deals with loss in different ways. It's all a process and unique for everyone. I am still trying to deal with the loss. I had said that the pain was the same and I want to correct that statement. I feel for anyone who has lost a mother and I am so very sorry from the bottom of my heart and I pray for anyone having to deal with this but it's not the same. Two kinds of loss are different: Suicide and Murder. Trying to understand when violence is involved is hard and it's even harder to explain to your little children.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Funny, we seem to have a number of things in common, and for that I'm thankful ( if you know what I mean ). You said,

There was a period shortly after she passed that my Dad in a crazed kept saying he wanted to kill my aunt...(because he believed she was responsible for my mom's death for not invited her to a wedding)....and in dealing with the insanity of that plus the loss I really wanted to take my own life.

I went through something similar, in that my father wanted to sue everyone because he thought my Mom's G.P. had hatched a plan with the rehab. center staff and some other patients, to kill my Mom..."Two swift blows to her head!", as he told me, first off, when she had died. It plunged me into immediate depression, too, and I felt like I was 'catching' his dementia....so I know what that's like. You also said,

The reason i didn't end up doing it was mainly because i am the closest thing to the image of my Mom on the planet right now...(i look like her and my voice is exactly like hers)...and so I need to carry on...

I heard this LOUD banging sound going down the hallway outside my bedroom door...it was like she was saying "if you do this I will be extremely disappointed in you

I also look very much like my Mom, and strangely, also very much like my deceased brother....so I lost the only 2 in the family who I resemble physically. I was also closer personality-wise to each of them, despite some major differences in my own personhood. Last night, I cried out with a sudden physical pain, and had to catch my breath, because to my own ears, it was identical to the sound my Mom was making during one of her crises in hospital, when they thought we'd lose her. It really threw me for a loop. However, I'm glad your mom has been visiting you (were you on the ADC's forum already?)as that's been the only thing with HER death to keep me going. One wonderful dream visitation from her and my grief finally settled down a good chunk!

As for your suggestion....

If it's guilt that's eating away at you, put a picture of your mom on a chair and sit and say "I am so sorry that I Did or said or didn't do...." (I would fill it in with "my at times bitchy attitude"....ASK HER FOR FORGIVENESS...and know that in your heart you truly are sorry and express that to her...and then try to move on.

....funny you should suggesT that, as my counselor had just had me do an exercise right along those lines! While I can't say it's helped alot YET, I also wasn't supposed to try it again until I go for my next session, and I've been feeling the need to repeat it....so good thought!

Thanks, Stellaanne, for your sharing and mutual aid so far....it really helps my soul to relax some, knowing there are others who understand and experience some of the same types of things with the loss of a mother. It still sometimes seems surreal to even have to be typing those words....ya know?

[stellaanne]

swede1,

I have been posting to adc's, visions...forum. I hope you have been feeling your Mom's presence as well. I often dream of my Mom and always feel as though I just was with her and actually miss her less...but the feeling of grief never leaves. I know that i will never be the same again...and it's very difficult to think that I could ever be happy again...perhaps I would feel different if I had children or a husband but my Mom was my family and that's it.

My brother's don't care and a month can go by and I don't hear from anyone...it's no big deal to them ....they have families, they're busy...period.

I care for my dad (who's not a nice person) and maybe they will stop in every couple weeks to see him...but maybe not...no big deal to them.

sorry for venting....i do hope you are dreaming of your Mom or receiving some sort of messages...

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Gee, thanks for asking!...but no, despite the exercise I'd done at the counselor's, I've not felt my Mom around me at all in any clear way, for many months now. The only thing she MAY have had a hand in is that I received a very belated birthday card from one cousin who'd let me down this past year, saying she'd be calling "for SURE" ( as she'd said before, too, but didn't ) by next week, and that she had some older pictures of my Mom that she'd be sending, too. I just hope they actually arrive sometime this century! I've only had 2 dreams this month with my Mom peripherally in them, and they weren't pleasant or comforting in the least. I don't know WHAT I need anymore, to get things rolling again, ADC-wise.

As for family, although I chose not to have children ( didn't want to pass on the family dysfunctions, be a bad parent,etc., and also just preferred animals, with their much bigger love! ), for the first time EVER, I've wished I had a daughter... but it's a selfish wish, so still think I made the right decision long ago. As for husbands, mine has ended up being pretty supportive through my whole ordeal, but still can't really understand anything this emotional, so it's another heartache by itself, and that's what ultimately makes my life feel so hopeless for the future. No, none of us will ever be the same again, that's the reality. Death can't help but change you, your perspective, but if we're lucky and work hard, much of that change can be for the better....but it IS hard work and maybe not all of us can handle it well. Yes, everyone's too busy...too busy to be good people much of the time, too busy to do what's right/better, too insular to reach out. It's also a good way ( staying busy ) to avoid the painful feelings that death brings out, so many use that as an excuse for failing others, failing themselves. There don't seem to be many folks, at least who I personally know, who really understand what's important. Some of them who HAVE lost a loved one aren't much better than the rest. I have a girlfriend who I supported when she lost her dad a few months ago, and though she talks flowery about it, she never just calls me, even if I email her that I'd enjoy a chat with her soon. She's given me gifts, for all I did for her, but can't seem to just pick up the phone. I'm at a loss right now as to what to DO with people. If there are so many out there who've loved, lost and learned from it, WHERE THE HECK ARE THEY ALL?!?! I ALWAYS now give people an opening to talk about their losses more, but most just don't seem interested, so what ELSE can I do?

[stellaanne]

Swede1

A friend that i was close to in high school til about 21yrs called a couple weeks after my Mom passed. She was crying because she didn't know about it soon enough to attend services...She never forgot how my Mom treated her when she spent many days and nights at my house. She remembered my Mom treating her like family and loved her for it.

I can talk to her and she understands my grief because she witnessed the relationship I had with my Mom and admired it (and can admit now to even some envy) She never tells me to "snap out of it" when I start crying when i talk about my Mom...this is something I have heard from my family....

She also never "rubs" in how happy she is with her husband and family and nothing else could matter because she has those things..(something my sister-in-law has said to me).....

My counselor told me to spend time with people who are compassionate toward you and AVOID people who are not....and that's what i have been working on.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

You're very, very fortunate to have such a friend in your life now, when you really need one! What she did was lovely, and loVING. That's the funny thing...I HAVE a so-called friend who virtually lived at my house, and me at hers, in grade-to-high school, and she LIKED my Mom, even found her amusing when I just thought she was being kind of weird....and yet this is a friend who I've had nothing but problems with, especially since my Mom died. She never asked what happened, she only sent an ecard, she cut me off when she finally called months later ( barely got 1/2 hour to talk to her ) and she'd lost her dad years ago, so you'd think she'd understand. Just a few months after my Mom passed, she let me know of another mutual friend's parent's death. I was the one who found her, living in the same city where we all came from (I'm no longer there, but they are), and we emailed each other a few times. When I told my first friend about her living there, they ended up going out for dinner together, at LEAST once that I know about, but both of them quit emailing ME! So it was TWO slaps in the face! This first friend recently emailed me some pic's of their last lunch out together, even though I'd told her previously like I now felt like odd-man-out. Does this sound to you like she's 'rubbing it in', having a renewed friendship, or at least reaquaintance, with our mutual friend ( who was my bridesmaid, BTW )? I've tried being honest with her before, but she usually just puts me off until so much time has passed that it's uncomfortable to bring it up again. I'm SO disgusted by your average Joe now, but never expected to receive such poor treatment by those espousing such concern for me on the surface. I don't know if I should confront her about this or not....it means losing yet another piece of my history to the void.

[stellaanne]

swede1,

well, honestly, i think you are putting yourself through more stress...

you already seem to feel badly enough about the events surrounding your Mom's death and i wouldn't add two of your friends getting together and supposedly "rubbing" it in to your plate.

Really the whole rubbing it in issue does strike a cord with me and the best you can do is stay away from people who you feel are doing that to you.

Remember that the best you can do for yourself is be near people who will allow you to feel bad and offer a soft place to fall...

My counselor said something like that to me and it's just so true..

Make new friends...

Don't dwell on the injustices of people....believe me I have done that plenty and i guess it's ok to acknowlege what people are doing and know who's looking out for you and who isn't but if you let that bring you further down, it's silly...because what you are going through with your loss is So much more important than that...

That's one thing i learned from my Mom passing:...nothing, and no one else really matters...if i can find comfort somewhere...anywhere it works...if i can't find comfort with someplace or somebody i am with....I BOUNCE...period...no reason given...i don't fight about it...i just leave.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

You're probably right...sigh....it's just that I'm SO exhausted by the last year and a bit, AND the past 14 years, trying so hard to make new friends who I can really click with, that it's been harder to think of giving any more up, much less getting out there to replace them. I just can't seem to find anyone here, and I've prayed so many times for that. I don't want to end up alone, without any support system, like my Mom did, in her city. I feel alone enough without a family as it is....I don't have the strength or energy anymore to keep plugging away at it.

[stellaanne]

swede1

hello again,

I think that if you got into a support group or some other group for an activity that interests you maybe that would help.

i really feel very alone a lot of the time as well and having a person or two (and that's all i have) is a help but they have lives too....meaning that many times when i need someone the most and i am very down, nobody is available.

So really you do have to come to the realization that no one can go through this for you....i remember after the first month or so telling that to my brother and him agreeing wholeheartedly ...meaning Yeah, no one can go through it for you, so don't bother me and just deal with it....

Nice, sensitive family I have.

But really you need to find a way to take care of yourself and reach out to people who will be kind to you.

I called 911 for my father last night and he is in the hospital and you would think that i would feel relaxed to not have to care for him for a few days but all i feel is worried about my future and how much longer he will be ill and how much more ill he will become before he dies, what kind of care he will need...etc...and then, what kind of dishrag will i be after caring for my Mom and watching her die and now still caring for him until he dies...

i have know idea what i will be left with in the end and it scares me.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

You're very kind to write back when you're having to deal with yet more upheaval, and I thank you for your advice, too. My counselor had just been urging me as well to do something with others who share an interest or hobby, so it looks like you're right on track. The only thing I'm balking at with that is that I'm so tired all the time and don't feel like I have the energy to expend in looking for something that intrigues me....plus, not as much intrigues me now anyway...even the things I used to love doing. I know I have to push myself out of this depression, but that's the funny thing about depression - you don't feel like doing the pushing! I know I'll start looking around, but don't know if I can follow through. I really just want to go on vacation and that's just not an option right now...and lots of SLEEP would be good, too!

A dishrag....yah, that's a good description - feel like that myself. I know it's a scary thought - you probably don't want to end up like ME! :-) But you do sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and I really think that will serve you well, although I certainly don't envy your position, although at least you'll be able to tell yourself you did as much as one person can do, and survived being a caretaker to both your parents. Then you'll probably have to be taking the same advise you've given me, after some time to recoup. Caretaking takes more out of one that alot of people realize, and that's the postition I'm in, too, but with our furgal, not my father. (although at least she's sweeter than sweet, despite her failing health) I've been at this for 5 years now, without a break, so I understand how depleting it is...hence my counselor telling me I need to take better care of myself and get out of the house more often than I do. It's way too easy to get totally burnt out...like me! You ARE right again though....the pain is going to be there, no matter who I talk to or don't, until I can release it myself...I just need to get some good ol' endorphins going somehow. I hope you can take this time to maybe get caught up on some R&R for yourself, as it looks like you may be needing all the energy you can muster. Be well, and DON'T be like me!

[stellaanne]

I agree with everything you said about depression. I feel exactly the same way. There's nothing inside..it's empty. I don't feel anything for the things I once did and enjoyed.

It was about 2 weeks after my Mom passed and I was telling this to my sister in law and she said "but you have to just move on"...I said I CAN'T...she said "but you HAVE TO" I thought, "I can't and I won't and honestly, I don't want to just move on"...what I feel is in honor of my Mom and what she meant to me...therefore, it's the right thing and natural.'

I feel lost a lot with no one to reach out for and so thank God for the few people I do talk to...but those people like I said can't live my life for me or give me a direction when this is all over.

What i found helps a little with me is walking...it's something i always liked to do and then my counselor kept telling me to do it because it's proven to be good for grief...It doesn't work unless I really walk and work up a sweat...like a workout...and i then i do feel a little better and clearer...you should try it.

[lcarolb1]

HI, this will be my first post, I actually found this site by divine intervention I think, reading here I felt not so alone.... I lost my mom to MS (Multiple Sclerosis) on July 31st. They told us 10 years ago when she was diagnosed that with the best of care she would live about 5 to 7 years, but she is tough and fought on a little longer, they also told us that one day she would have some little something that needed doctors care and then the MS would take over and it would shut her body down, and boom that is what happen, she went to the hospitol for a routine simple visit and 9 days later she was gone. Just like that! My world ended! My mom was my best friend, we spoke three to four times a day (we live in seperate cities in Texas)now I just don't know what to do with myself...thank God I have two small children to keep me busy or I am sure I would not still be here.....I said it my whole life that when my mom died I would lay down next to her and die too, I am the only child and did not want to go it alone without her, but now, as if God knew, I can't go anywhere I have two kids to raise and the thought of leaving them the way she left me is just an unmentionable. We had a lot of long talks this year, I knew she was not getting any better, I visited every six weeks for 4 or 5 days, she never wanted to be in a nursing home and I am glad to say between my step dad and myself we managed to keep her home. I know she is in a better place and is not in pain anymore, but the grief is almost more than I can bare, everyone says, "It takes time and It will get better", I just want to scream, NO, its never gonna be better, maybe easier but never better.....I have friends and family, but there are times that I still feel so alone.....I feel as if my heart is damaged and empty, but yet it is SO HEAVY. I am working, managing my kids, and functioning, but the fact is...... I Don't Want To.

[stellaanne]

lcarolb1,

Hi, i'm sorry for you loss. I understand how you feel. I am not an only child but am the youngest and only girl of 5 children...my youngest sibling is 7 years older...so yes i was attached to Mommy's skirt all of my young childhood and clung to her throughout my life through illnesses with my dad and her. She never drove and my Dad had a stroke 4 years ago and hasn't driven since so it's been me for all or at least most errands (and dad never took her anywhere other then out to dinner on a saturday when he did drive anyway.)

My Mom wasn't sick before her death very long..she had pancreatic cancer which is a quick cancer...moves very fast without much hope for treatment.

I didn't leave her side and solely took care of her and my dad for that time and am now just with my Dad...a person who never had a conversation with me my entire life....I was Mommy's girl through and through...and still am completely proud of it.

I don't have any children and am not married so that makes what i am going through a complete nightmare.

Like i have said on here before, I did want to take my own life for the first 2 months or so...but one night i believe my Mom talked me out of it by instilling some 'Mom like' fear in me while I was planning how I would do it.

I was in charge of purchasing the plots when she passed so I WILL be laid to rest next to her someday and my name is there on the headstone next to her's despite disputes from family members...(you know, those people who think they can tell you what to do yet don't want to do anything themselves)

Anyway, believe me...i do know the pain you feel...nothing is like that bond you have with your Mom...especially if you had a Mom like mine.

[swede1]

lcarolb1 and stellaanne,

I think we have a common theme going here....the "I don't want to" theme! I know when people have said I HAVE to go on, I dig in MY heels, too, and just feel like doing even LESS of this grief work thing! I just want to magically feel better, without the struggle. I want a break from the sadness and apathy..and yet I don't have the fortitude left to MAKE something fun...if it happens spontaneously, so be it, but that's about it.

BTW, Stellaanne, my next brother is also 7 years my senior, and my deceased brother was 12 years older, so I was in the same family position as you - lone girl, far apart from other siblings' ages, so Mom was more of my playpal in younger years than were my brothers.

I've also noticed that there really DOES seem to be more of a bond between mothers and daughters than between others, not in all cases of course, but sharing the same gender does impart something special, unless one's mother was horrid. I even say this despite the fact that there were many times my Mother COULD act horridly...but deep down she just wasn't that way. This isn't a part of the 'putting our loved ones on pedestals' stage of grief, either. When my Mom was treated fairly and with love, she returned to her basic nature, which was being a nice woman.

And lcarolb1, I'm so sorry you also have lost your mother and feel so alone. Many of us do here, even those with family support ( which I don't have ). Welcome, and keep sharing, please.

[stellaanne]

swede1

hi again...I can relate to the thought of "putting one up on pedestool"...and have wondered if i am doing that at times...maybe, but you wouldn't believe some of the things i would say to my Mom in life...i was lucky enough to have the time before she passed to say things even more than what i normally would say to her...

Every person I worked with or was friends with knew what I felt about my Mom...I talked about her like she hung the moon...

Some of those people I don't see much anymore and I am unsure if they know my Mom passed. Some of those people came to services but i haven't heard from them since...it's disturbing since i know they know what my Mom meant to me...

I guess people don't want to be brought down so they stay away.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Yah, it could be that, or it could even be that some are jealous of your relationship with your mom? Maybe some of them think that since you had such close relationship with her that you wouldn't have any unresolved issues to deal with upon her passing, so mistakenly believe you'll be one of fortunate few ( I personally don't think there really ARE such people, unless there was no love lost between them and the passed one )who DOES 'get over it' easier and quicker than most. Or maybe that your strong relationship will somehow sustain you, all by itself. Just some thoughts, all of which may be entirely wrong. It's probably more likely that, like most of western society, they just don't know, or don't want to know, how to handle someone's grief. I'm very familiar with those who are always saying, no matter WHAT the circumstance, "Be POSITIVE! You'll survive! We ALL go through it." ( if it's a parent ),etc., as if you've only got a hangnail and what are you whining about?

Re: putting them on a pedestal, I know I went through that phase, but in MY case, it was actually rather a good thing for me, because I'd been so critical of my Mom and her ways for a large part of my adult years, it ended up providing that balance that we all eventually need which enables us to look at our parents realistically, their good and bad parts. AND, it was actually nice to be able to see her in such a good light for a change, even though that's what ended up causing so many of my regrets...mainly that I couldn't have achieved that balance a bit better, and SOONER, when she was still here. I had some of it, but not enough, in my mind, and HAD I, it would have made it alot easier to weather her failings when they came up. I still managed to do that, but not with as much ease as I would have liked, which would have made things that much better between us during those times, too. We all learn things so often too late to effect as much good as we had the potential to do.

[stellaanne]

swede1 thanks...

i have heard others make the observation that people are jealous of the relationship between my mom and myself....perhaps that's why i also feel no love from the family...i often think down the line with everyone including my father that has been an issue....

They can all kiss my white ass on that.

I understand your issues with things with your Mom...as close as i was to my Mom there were many times that I felt like i was talking to a brick wall with her when it came to things about my father and i always tried to stick around to protect her, give her an escape from him...i always wanted to be a place to fall for her because she was that for me too....but it ate me up, ripped my heart out....it made me so sick sometimes to see how he treated her...

and i couldn't get through to her...it was a hole i lived with for so long and now i'm dealing with a much bigger hole.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Yes, I hear your anger and frustration. It's like they have to take the one thing that was GOOD and twist it until it's as ugly as their OWN inner lives. To "give her an escape from him"....oh yes, that's it exactly! While I didn't always have that soft place to fall ( and I love that phrase )even in my Mom, who could just as easily fall back on her OWN method of coping as advise to me ( like, "Oh, just go back to bed and forGET about it!" ), I still felt that desire to make her see how she could improve her life. Though I know it was always a component of codependency, it was ALSO love...at least what little I could muster in that family. But my parents' way of life together scared the hell out of me and it was so easy to get sucked into the vortex of crazy-making. That's why I had to make a break of it from all of them...except for my Mom, the only one who showed me she still cared, despite all the trauma and drama. I remember telling my former husband that my Mom was pushing to get me to re-establish our relationship, then from afar, and he said triumphantly,"So you know what THIS means....you WON! After all is said and done, SHE'S the one who needs YOU!" And I thought, this is no cause for celebration ( he had my best interests at heart, though, knowing that all I'd ever fought for in my family was from wanting to be loved and to love in return )....my Mom was feeling the same desperation I'D grown up with and that's NOT what I'd wanted. That was a huge turning point for me, realizing that I just wanted a better relationship with my own Mother, and so it DID begin anew... and for that, I'll always be grateful. Even though nothing was ever healed between any of the rest of them, or them with me, my Mom and I stuck together, weathered storms and came out loving each other again...then we BOTH won.

[stellaanne]

swede1,

sometimes when people stop paying attention (their choice) things go on (like the relationship between you and your mom healing.) Then when they look back and see what they missed, they get pissed and you are in the line of fire...made to pay in some way or treated incredibly rude at a time when you need your family the most.

I am right there...when the blood (and money was still flowing) ...meaning my dad was still working and in decent health, and my Mom was still having dinner parties (with me as the fixture right hand girl that never got credit for anything...actually SHE never even got credit, everyone completely took it for granted)...but at the time the family was still together...although, underneath not entirely happy...

When the illinesses started, the family slowly started to make themselves less visible.

I was left with the brunt of it and the already naturally strong relationship between my Mom and I became a force to be reckoned with....today, i find people hanging onto silly things that they did that were positive toward her in her life and totally forgetting the times when things were bad and no one came around for months at a clip... or they did nothing for her and treated her like dirt under their feet on top of it.

I don't believe there's any meading of relationships like these...instead of people coming together to comfort each other...it's a division that is final.

[alwaysmyjennifer]

Stellaanne, sometimes the fence is too broken to be fixed. What do you do then? How do you build a new fence? Forgiveness can be a gentle friend, but it can have harsh consequences. You must do what ultimately gives your heart peace. You are the beautiful person who cared sacrificially for your Mom, while others went on their way thinking they were doing some good deed. Let them go. Let them think whatever. Give your heart the peace and satisfaction of knowing that you did such a noble, loving thing, and your Mom will eternally look upon you with love, gratitude, and admiration. Be at peace, and may your dear heart be comforted.

[swede1]

(with me as the fixture right hand girl that never got credit for anything...actually SHE never even got credit, everyone completely took it for granted.

I don't believe there's any meading of relationships like these...instead of people coming together to comfort each other...it's a division that is final.

Stellaanne,

I can relate to that one, too. Neither me nor my Mom ever got credit within the family for anything good we did. I'd give my Mom credit, and sometimes she'd do the same for me ( tho not as often as I did for her, but that's understandable ), but from the men....never. In fact, my father would always try to find something to bitch about whatever she'd done. So she went through life feeling less-than, and I never felt I was 'good enough' either. It's a bitter pill to swallow, then try to gag up! I made sure I thanked my Mom, even though her brain was affected by then from the drug overdose her Dr. had given her after her first stroke, for all the things she'd done for all of us over her life. While she had trouble processing it, I think, it stopped her dead in her tracks ( she'd been hallucinating alot that day ), and poor dear soul, she thanked me back, for helping her on that day ( seeing to her needs in the hospital, going along with her visions ). I could see a tear starting to form in her eye, but she was so dehydrated that it was impossible.

For the others and what you said about not mending these.....I rather hope you're right, as from this moment in time, I can't even imagine having my father or last brother around me at ALL on another plane! I just HOPE I'm done with them by then! In fact, I don't even want my father to be reunited with my Mother, either...not unless he's been transformed into someone who can love her enough to totally atone for all the harm he's done here. All my head can imagine right now is for me, my cherished cat ( and other animal companions ), my Mom and other brother ( and a few, select relatives )to have a party, with NO troublesome, troubled souls to disrupt our celebration!

[stellaanne]

swede1, alwaysmyjennifer

thanks to both for the kind comments.

I can relate to your comments swede1 about feeling less than...actually when my Mom knew she was dying and facing that truth she said "Good, Let him realize something"....can you believe it??? like she was glad he'd finally know and appreciate what she was...

That's one of the saddest things a person can look upon their life and say ..and I agree again with you on the point that I too hope my Dad goes to a different station when he passes and somehow doesn't get to relish in the joy of seeing my Mom....unless it's somehow completely different and he somehow grows a brain and a heart that's consistant...that's one of his key dysfunctions..one day you're great the next he's flying off the handle and everyday you just never know who you'll be dealing with.

I hope my Mom is at peace and stays that way and I hope that she greets me someday...and I hope it's just her and I and maybe my grandmom and my aunt...we'd have a couple vodka and orange juices and talk about old days.

I asked her tonight when I went to the grave for inner peace because i feel so emotionally, mentally and physically tired....but i still have my dad to care for so it would take a stroke of miracle to remedy my feelings

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Oh, that IS really a sad thing to have to say at the end! It brings up the fears I have myself, about my life paralleling my Mom's and being left with no one at my last moment. It also reminds me of what I had always hoped my FATHER would have to be facing at HIS end...the opposite, of perhaps finally realizing how he'd wronged everyone, and no one was there for him...but I imagine his dementia will likely save him that agony, and mores the pity. Although, were I there, and a miracle did make him realize it all, then I'D be faced with even more of a quandry! After a lifetime of hating this man, I'd also feel compelled to forgive him. Maybe I think too much for my own good!

Yes, we all suffered the walking on eggshells nonsense, too. With my dad, one day just as miserable as usual, the next day, or later the same day, drunk as a skunk and we'd be having to leave home to find refuge at a relatives or friend's house. How humiliating it all was! And usually my Mom sporting some bruises. And that wasn't the worst of it, but I wasn't even born yet, thankfully. And to hear my last brother's version, you'd think we didn't even live in the same house, as HE blamed our Mom, not our dad! I know this is common in troubled families, for siblings to have different views of things, but then this brother never really talked to anyone, to find things out, so what would HE know? It was still a shock to me to hear his take on things, not that he explained anything.

I absolutely loved your picture of your reunion, though! Sitting around with a couple of tall, cool ones. I had to smile, never even having considered such a relaxing kind of moment, with normal, earth-type things. That's a gem, and I think I'll keep it in mind.

I know how it is, too, to not have the luxury of restful moments when dealing with all the tumultuous feelings of grief. I've gone through sort of the same thing, for 5 long years, with having to care for our furbaby and her illnesses, one loss after another taking away my innocence and simple joys, and trying desperately to hang onto them for HER sake. I've felt my heart close up some, not able to love her with as much clarity and sheer passion as I always did, and that pains my heart even MORE, because she DESERVES for her mom to love her as hugely as she loves me! It's a terrible thing. I can actually feel my heart being covered at the last second when I try to forget everything that's happened when I'm in the midst of touching her and loving her...like that last piece of fullness is just STUCK, and the only way I can get around it is to pretend these are her last moments, so it will open up....uuuugghhh! It's horrible and I feel like such a beast, but don't know how to open it otherwise. Thoughts of death just consume me, and I HATE it. That was the most unexpected side effect of losing my Mom and I need to FIX it, quick! My furgirl's life with me depends on it. If I ruin the rest of our time together, I'll NEVER forgive myself for anything ever again.

[stellaanne]

swede1,

your description of the result of your father's drunk behavior brings me right back to my childhood with my grandfather...he lived with us and died when i was 15... He was a drunk through and through ..started with the VO at 6 am and stayed buzed all day even when he was working. Sometimes he'd go nuts and we would all pile into a pickup with a loaf of slice bread, a gallon of milk, a jar of peanut butter and we'd take a ride, eat dinner then return home 3 hours later hoping he'd passed out by then. Neither my dad nor grandfather left bruises on my Mom but there was violence...throwing things, walking around with his cane raised high and hitting walls and funiture...(grandfather)...when i was in school i never knew which door to come in when I got home...sometimes my mom would have half the house blocked off and he would be locked in the other half because he was out of control.

Don't ask me how my Mom remained the fun-loving doll she was...

Care giving is something not everyone can do....

My neice was asking me 50 questions the other night about how i took care of my Mom, watched her pass, then planned the funeral and made picture collages the same day as her death....when you are caring for someone it keeps going. You don't stop because they aren't breathing anymore...you go on and still do whatever you can to honor the life of you one you cherish...and sometimes it's OK if you are putting yourself aside for that person...it's just tough for me to put myself aside right now for my dad...know what I mean?

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Yes, I certainly do. It's much harder, for one because you're already suffering about your mom, and two, because your relationship with your father isn't at all the same as the one you had/have with your mom. Personally, I say great kudos to you to be able to go that extra mile for someone who made yours and your mother's life so difficult. I can't even see myself doing such work for my own father, and am very glad he's in a home instead. ( not that I leave my own family to do such a thing anyway ) I draw the line at expecting that he at least get his basic needs met, but that's about it. Let's hope your father acknowledges what you're doing for him, at least at some point! It's also a way to honour your mom, for she did the same thing for her family, despite the turmoil.

Your grandfather sounds very similar to not only my father, but to my Mom's dad as well....the drinking and violence ran rampant among a few members of her own family. In fact, her father was much worse than my dad, so when she married him, it's not unreasonable to think that she thought it wasn't AS bad as her own father's behaviour....just as I did in MY first marriage. So many of us codependants do this, it's not funny. If we're lucky, we learn from those mistakes and don't repeat them, but many don't. This is part of the understanding I gained about my Mother, and why she was the way she was, and why she tried to cope in the way she did. THAT kind of knowledge about family history goes a long way if one is ready to set aside blame and replace it with understanding. I keep thinking even my father must have had some kind of bad trauma in his youth to make him the way he is, but no one in his family who I've talked to ( not too many of them, as I didn't know most of them ) knows of anything that would account for him being this way....so I'm at a loss with his case. But I do know one thing - he was never, ever sorry for anything he did that hurt people and in fact, he was quite proud of his bad behaviour and bragged about doing wrong to others, so I have NO respect whatsoever for the man. My last brother is the same. I really think they're both sociopaths, and I can't even imagine being the mother in such a family. To think you married someone like that, and then gave birth to another one who turned out the same...my heart would be totally broken. That's why I have so MUCH respect for my Mother, by comparison. She was certainly not anywhere near perfect, but for all the good works she did in the face of that reality, she did better than I would have, better than could be expected.

[stellaanne]

swede1,

I've said something very similiar about my own Mom...I couldn't have done what she did in the face of what she had in to deal with...as with my grandfather...when he was drunk, and we were little and crying about something, she would have to take us in a closet to hide from him. She'd try to cover our mouths with her hand or try to feed us. I would have to said that my Dad isn't AS bad but still always has been a handful.

I was talking to my brother the other day and saying that how no one in the family gets it when it comes to me and how I feel about this (the loss of my Mom). He was saying that everyone feels sad...and granted I'm sure they do but they would see her once a month for an hour or maybe even less often...I lived with her for many years...took care of everything etc...

She was everything to me...and it just happened that at the time she got sick this last time, I wasn't happy with my job, had a bad pregnancy last year then lost the baby, my ex b'friend said he was going to slit my throat...and was generally in a very low spot...then all this happened...

In thinking about not having my own family and trying to express that to my brother, really, I never thought much of anyone...meaning if I would meet someone and like him, I would maybe want to get married but I always measured it against the idea of leaving my Mom...and no man could hold a candle to being with her..And although that doesn't sound healthy it's true...lots of people can say that i never found the right guy and i'd have to believe it because I don't regret a minute of being with my Mom and never in a million years would wish I made a go of it with any guy i ever knew...i would have just been divorced now anyway.

What my brother said to me when I was saying that I lost everything and no one calls, was..."well, you had the relationship"....meaning I had a relationship that NO ONE has/had in their life....i have many times said that I have never seen a relationship like the relationship her and I had....not between any two people whether it be with in a marriage or family unit...

So it's true that when I think of all the things I never had in my life, there's this big thing that I DID have that I can't even explain...but I got the feeling he looks at it like it's a good thing...like, so, you are upset BUT you had that... NOT you are upset and I can't conceive of what this loss must be like for you...you're upset but you had what nobody else has so you're lucky...or something like that...meantime i have a family of over 20 people with just my siblings and neices/nephews who live within 3 minutes from me and only really talk to one or two people once in a while...how is that anyone understanding anything about what I'm going through?

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

No, that ISN'T understanding, it's avoiding and trying to compensate for being uncomfortable with your pain. Did you try to explain it to your brother, or just drop it because you wanted that automatic understanding and it wasn't there for you? At the risk of sounding simplistic, oftentimes people need to be enlightened about what's going on under our surfaces before they can respond better. Maybe your brother isn't capable, or willing, to go there, but it's just a thought. Maybe he's avoiding the guilty feelings of not having done more, been there more, dumped it on you to do. Whatever the case, it's totally frustrating when other people won't feel what they OUGHT to feel, that they avoid those pains, when we think OUR pains are ALREADY at least double what THEY'D suffer from facing their own stuff. It doesn't seem fair!

I have to say, it would be challenging for most people to truly get how you feel, most likely because you're right...most of us haven't been fortunate enough to have had such a loving relationship with ANYONE as the one it sounds like you had/have with your mom. Although, to my mind, it doesn't take a whole lot of intellectual prowess to realize, at least in your head if not your heart, the huge impact losing that would have on someone's life. It's hard enough to be suddenly alone, it's hard enough to be without the person ( whoever it was ) you LIVED with day in and day out, it's hard enough to lose your role as caretaker ( especially if it's to someone you LOVE so much and were working so hard to save ), it's hard enough to lose a PARENT you love...then add up the lack of an outside network to fall back on, and anyone would have HUGE losses to contend with!! So unfortunately, if you haven't suffered at least SOME of these things yourself, you understand nothing, and more unfortunately, even if you have, AND have enough of an imagination to cover the rest, there are still plenty of people who just don't seem to want to care, to support others in such loss. It's as if, I think, life is hard enough, they just don't want to 'go there' with another because that only adds to the stuff THEY have to deal with, and so many are already feeling overloaded. BUT IT STINKS, doesn't it?! Here we are, some of us reaching out for support &/or giving some support, and the rest of the world doesn't care enough to do the same. No, I DON'T get that. Once you HAVE suffered through major loss, I can't really see being anything BUT supportive of others....unless you yourself received NONE and have become bitter, so withdraw support for the next person, in retaliation. Then it would become a viscious circle, one of uncaring and selfishness. And maybe that's what it is, for all I know.

I've also heard a man on a different board saying the same thing you did, about no other woman being able to hold a candle to his mom, so he's still single, too. I don't pretend to know if it's healthy or unhealthy, but it does happen to a few. Although I CAN tell you that when it comes to certain things, especially caregiving issues, it's the bar my Mom set that's stuck in my mind, and unfortunately many people can't live up to that ( so it becomes an unreasonable expectation in a relationship ), and most especially not most MEN! So there are plusses and minuses to having exceptional people in our lives. I have to accept many limitations in my husband that I'd rather not have to accept, but it doesn't mean he's not a good man overall. And parents leave possibly the biggest imprint on us that we carry forward to compare to all others. It can be a double-edged sword.

As for your history, yes, it sounds pretty troubled, like mine. The fact that we both had mothers who tried to protect us from the offenders means we're quite lucky. With some, it's the mother who's the bad one, and that would be worse for a daughter. For me, just as I can say that my first husband wasn't 'as bad' as my father, I can also say my Mother was 'better than' the rest of my family, though not an angel herself, either. And I can say that, despite her flaws, had I been left with only my father, I would likely have been dead early on. Or HE would have been and I'd have been in jail. So protect me in some measure, she still did, and for that I'm grateful...except for those days when I'd RATHER be dead.

In any case, I understand the extent of your losses, though the ones that were similar to yours were, for me, from separate individuals, the cumulative picture is much the same. And I say again, as I've said many times this year and a bit, we the grieving need to start some kind of club!

[stellaanne]

swede1

yes...a club would be nice but it would have to have others similiar to you and I. I joined a grief support group but it started only 3 weeks after my Mom passed and everyone in the group seemed so....um, normal. Great relationship with a great family...everyone chipped in to help and planned the services and everyone was "there" for them. And certainly no one had a story of never having a conversation with their father in a 40 year life yet being left to be his sole care-giver.

Which brings me to todays events...I have a woman who comes in and helps my Dad get washed (I can cook like my Mom but I draw the line when it comes to personal care for HIM...it's bad enough I have to be home most of the day to keep and eye on him)....anyway, less than 2 months after my Mom passed, the women we had coming said she couldn't really come as much anymore. I tried to phone her and left 3 messages but she never returned my calls..

I got another girl and a week and a half after she started the care service supervisor called and said that my Dad was "indecent" with her and they wouldn't send anyone else ever again.

Next, I got a woman through a friend and she would tell me that she felt so uncomfortable unless she wore a high neck t-shirt because he would smile and stare down her shirt otherwise.

Now I have ANOTHER woman and this morning she told me that my Dad got frisky with her on Saturday...but she put him in his place and she is still with us...SO FAR.

And this is all and always on MY shoulders to deal with. He makes me sick...even though this woman says "it's from the stroke" i really know he was always a pig and my Mother wasn't even gone 2 months and he started that ****.

He's 82 and over 250lbs...and not capable anymore in that department (if you know what i mean)....yet still a pig.

Sorry to vent about this...i'm disgusted.

I agree with your statements about people being uncomfortable with our pain...I was talking to my brother tonight and telling him that there are days that go by that I don't talk to anyone at all...

He acted like everyone is busy (of course, we've heard that one before) and he doesn't know what I expect from people. I guess just a check-in call once in a while...but yes, again I know ...everyone is too busy for that. And i get treated like I shouldn't expect that...I know no one is going to help me to not grieve but I am so lonely sometimes I just figure someone should think about that.

I know my Mom gave an unrealistic standard for me to find in someone but I have also put up with a lot crap and let things get too far with guys and again I think that's because of seeing my Mom do it...being walked on by both her husband and her sons at times as well.

I don't know if I will ever even want to date again considering what I am going through with my father and thinking about my past with men...right now I wonder if I'll ever even want anything...right now, it's one day at a time and sometimes I'm pissed that I woke up at all this morning.

[swede1]

Hi Stellaanne,

Oh, TELL me about it! I think we might be step sisters in grief! I went to a support group, too, after about 3 months, and SAME THING! I heard nothing but normal, normal, normal, and felt so out of place, even in a group that's supposed to make one feel better! There was one woman whose entire experience sounded like something out of the Brady Bunch. So when it came time for MY sharing, I even said how out of place I felt, and even that didn't net me any sympathy...in fact, everyone but one woman rather shied away from me after that ( thank God it was the 2nd last meeting! )There was one who came in partway through who had a bad background, but she was so selfish no one, including me, could stand to listen to her. So I was a stranger in a strange land AGAIN.

And my father, too, was a pig ( glad you just went ahead and used that word, as I have a million times before! ), both with my Mom and after her death. My Mom knew it and sometimes half the neighbourhood did, too. It made some neighbours shun ME, though I was very young and obviously had nothing to do with it. After my Mom passed and I was back getting her clothes, my now-deceased brother and I were sorting through stuff in her room and my dad made what HE thought was a joke ( or not..one could never tell with him ), saying," You're taking so many clothes, what are you going to leave me to give to my girlfriends?" !!!!!! I almost pushed my brother out of the way so I could punch the **** out of him. My brother and I looked at each other, sharing a glance that said we both KNEW what an a****** he was, and my brother just said," OkaaAAAAyyyy...." I wanted to die. If I hadn't had to stay calm in order to retrieve the few things of my Mom's he allowed me, I WOULD have plowed him one! My Mother, HIS wife, had just died and here he was, sullying her memory with jokes about new relationships! I HATE that man. He always made lewd comments about other women, right in front of my Mom and in mixed company, taking great pleasure it seemed out of humiliating her. People would chastise him for it, and he'd just laugh that much harder, or ARGUE with them, as if he was RIGHT! I've hated him ever since I was 5 and found out what kind of a beast he was, and I still hate him today. So DO I EVER UNDERSTAND! I'm JUST as disgusted, with BOTH of our fathers! Somehow it seems even MORE disgusting when they're that old, too, like they can't even grow out of it as they age - my dad was 85 when my Mom died. How awful that you have this extra garbage to contend with. And you can't very well tell these helpers what he's really like, either, right? There's just no end to the crap they put us through, is there? I wish so much that I could be there for you to call, or me to call, and just yak it through, wear the edges off some of it for each other, like REAL friends are supposed to do!

As for other people's busyness...yes, they all make excuses ( one 'friend' even wrote today that she liked to use her life's stuff as an excuse for not writing! NO shame in these people! ) I'm STILL waiting for 2 or more calls that will probably never come, one from a cousin and one from a local friend who lost her own father this year. Even when I ask her direct questions via email, or outright say I'd like to chat on the phone instead, she doesn't call...but if I leave her alone for a week, she's emailing me to stay in touch! Is everyone MENTAL?! God....I don't understand how I could even be having problems MYSELF, when everyone else seems so loony next to me! I should, by rights, be totally mentally and emotionally healthy!

I also think you're a smart woman, recognizing how your Mom's pattern has rubbed off on you...so common, yet few ever see it in their own lives. So I think you're halfway to getting on track in that department already. I believe the real trick ( and you can't fool YOURSELF in this ) is to do whatever you have to do to get to the point where you're wholly ready to change enough about yourself so as not to find ANY attraction in unhealthy partners, and then you will attract the ones who are at that better level, and not the poorer choices. It's a long haul, but one worth striving for. Because as you likely know as well as I do, it's no fun picking those father-types, just to repeat your mother's life choices once again. Our poor, dear moms....hard lives, that they'd never WANT us to have to relive, and so we strive to improve upon their first model, to become at least the newer, better version of them combined with our own, unique selves, in honour of who they were and who we are to become. I feel so sorry for all of us.

[avalanchefan]

Hello! I do not know how to go on or what to do next. I lost my mom this morning. It was NOT expected at all. There are so many things I never got a chance to tell her. I honestly NEED her back. I have begged God, to send her back making it seem like the doctors were wrong. God, just did not listen to me. I just want her back to tell her I love her and SO many other things, I thought I could tell her later. All day I have been thinking this has not happened. It's a bad dream. I will walk in her room and find her sitting there. She was fine yesterday. She was doing things of crafts and today she is gone. Why did she have to die? I just started going to college and she was so proud of that. I now want to quit, because I cannot live my life without her. How do people go on? My mom gave me everything. There are so many things I need to tell her. I never thought she would die. I just need to tell her thank you for everything and that I love her. I never told her that. I wanted to spend more time with her, but got busy with school. How can I go on? I just need her back SO badly. She was not supposed to die. She was fine all week. What can I do?

Thank You,

Brenda

[stellaanne]

Brenda and swede1

Brenda...i feel your pain. I was lucky enough to have the time to tell my Mom all the things (or so I thought at the time)...i'd want. Even while she was actively dying I sent her off with nice words and lots of love. I am grateful for that ...however, i still feel that I forgot this or that OR things always come up that I want to tell her....

You really need to talk to your Mom...and this is what I do now when I want to talk to her....I have a beautiful picture that I enlarged and put in a pretty frame...I sit and relax and just tell her what ever comes to my mind...You really should try this...if you need to write things out first do so.

I believe your Mom will be listening...and maybe she'll pay you a nice visit in a dream sometime soon...that's always the best. I talk to her picture when i feel overwhelmed and many times before bedtime..it helps.

I have found it comforting to read about the afterlife...and hang on to the hope of being with her after this life and into eternity.

Swede1...I guess there are all levels of dysfunction and I have talked to people who are far worse than me...but most are better yet I don't feel like poor me about it...I am glad I had the Mom I did...and if that meant having who I have as a father so be it... My Mom did a bad Mom thing once when I was 16 and wanted to move away to go to college for broadcasting...she cried and told me to not leave her...she said that I was all she had in this world and she couldn't lose me.... I couldn't believe she could say something like that to her daughter...I felt she didn't care about MY LIFE but today i look at the life she had how I was an outlet for her and a comfort...and at that age I never could understand how I could have been those things...when i think back i can remember all the times of bringing her breakfast in bed...(it was actually selfish because it would be a saturday and i would be up early and she would be sleeping in and I just wanted her to get up and be with me...so i'd bring her breakfast to wake her up)...apparently those type of things really meant something to her...and just me being around I guess...anyway, It's weird the things you start thinking about when you think of your life with someone you were that close too.

I wouldn't trade a minute of being with my Mom for anything in this world.

My Dad seemingly has your dad beat in the "pig" department from what you said..My dad told me that he wants to have a woman come live and wash and cook for him AND sleep in the bed with him....2-3 weeks afer my Mom passed he said that he has to move on with his life...My brother said "Well, he needs affection"...alrighty then.

Anyway, I feel that i don't care if I talk to anyone anymore in my family...i just don't care about anything anymore.

[swede1]

I am glad I had the Mom I did...and if that meant having who I have as a father so be it......I felt she didn't care about MY LIFE but today i look at the life she had how I was an outlet for her and a comfort...My Dad seemingly has your dad beat in the "pig" department from what you said..My brother said "Well, he needs affection"...alrighty then.

Stellaanne,

You're a big help to me, and thank-you for being here! I found your perspective on having your mom in your life DESPITE your dad, really refreshing and helpful. I'd never thought of it that way before, and am deeply grateful for you sharing this way of looking at it. It's a real KEEPER in my books! I know I, too, was a comfort to my Mom, even though a geographically distant one in later years. I imagine just having me on the planet, to be able to talk to, even if about nothing really important, was WHAT was so important to my Mom....in the same way I felt about her being here. Although I still wish I'd done more, like you had, for her. That remains a real regret, all reasonings for why I didn't/couldn't, aside. All I've got to combat that feeling is knowing that, HAD I known what was to come, I would have done more in a HEARTBEAT. I'm sure I'm not alone in the world with those regrets, either, but it still pains me deeply.

As for your dad, okay then.....he WINS! And thanks for sharing THAT gem, too! Now I don't feel as bad, knowing someone else knows the horrors of disrespect and dishonour. And your brother?......I hope you'll excuse me, but I absolutely hooted at your written response to his nonsensical remark - "alrighty then." Yah, that's about it, isn't it?! Sometimes wry humour is just the ticket to dealing with such atrocities, though we may not be able to manage it very often. And if that's not even the way it was meant in your head, well, that's how it sounded in MINE, and so was still a help to me.

And if nothing matters to you anymore, I still have to say, YOU'VE mattered to ME, since you've been such a help with your sharing. You've made a positive difference in someone else's life ( mine! ) already....so maybe that's part of the reason you're still here. Bless you, Stellaaanne.

[stellaanne]

swede1

No need to thank me...writing on here helps ME...and having a response from someone with such similiar experiences makes it even more of a comfort.

I am glad that you feel a connection and it helps...connections are hard to come by in life.

Case in point, I have a sister-in-law who has been in the family for 35 years and she sometimes will come on like a friend but then will say something like..."i'm so happy, I have my grandchildren and they just turn my world upside down...i look at them and I just don't care about anything else."...she has said that a couple times in the mist of me talking about my Mom...

I'd rather not talk to her for that and other reasons...

Last November (my Mom wasn't sick yet) I was making a comment to her about how my Mom's sons are so rude to her sometimes and said that my parents have a few more years, why can't people treat them with some regard?...she pipes back and says "oh, i doubt they have even a few years...i don't think they have much time at all"....can you imagine saying that to someone's daughter?...neither of my parents were in a hospital at the time or terminal from what the family knew...even if someone IS in a hospital i can't imagine saying...'wow, doubt they have much time at all,' to a family member...know what i mean?

It's crazy this world we live in...that's why i'm sure there's something after this life...what a cruel joke it would be if this was it!

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

No, and yes, I can't and can imagine certain people saying such hideous things! No, as in "are they complete morons?" and yes, as in my own examples:

1.)My dead brother's spouse said to me, just after my brother/her partner died,"Well, don't you think that's incredibly self-indulgent of you? "( to grieve about my own Mother's death! )When I pressed her for an explanation of her outrageous question she said it was just because my Mother was OLD, for heaven's sake, and had HAD a long life, even if it wasn't such a good one!! GAK!!!! She's just lucky we were talking long distance, or she might have ended up with a black eye!

2.)A friend, who I'd talked to about my troubled family life and relationship with my Mom, and who was supposedly 'helping' me to get through things afterwards, said at one point, "So can you SEE that your Mother DIDN'T really love you?" AAAAaaaaahhhhhh!!! WHAT?!?! Oh, THAT'S a big help!! NOW I'll heal for SURE!

So we also share rotten sister-in-laws! You know, I can ALMOST laugh at these horrible people, they're such PIPS!!...but not quite yet, because their stupidity hurts me so deeply. And yes, I AM judging them, and HARSHLY, because these aren't just ignorant, societal remarks, but downright MEAN remarks, just like the one you got! WHAT exactly possesses them, I wonder? What could they possibly be getting from being so cruel and heartless? There was a guy on another site who I contacted ( after he left the site ) because he kept coming up with the absolutely snazziest, snarkiest come-backs to those less-outright-mean ( but still equally stupid and hurtful )comments we so often hear, with the intention of collaborating on writing a little book about them, including his sarcastic replies. Unfortunately, so far, my grief hasn't abated enough to pursue such a project, but I still hope to later....because I would now have the guts to actually SAY them back. I figure, if people can be so mean, they deserve the same in kind! If nothing else, they'll learn pretty darn quickly not to step on others' toes when they're already down. OOOOOoooooo, this kind of thing just gets my blood boiling! I've just been reading some articles online about what to do and what not to do when someone's grieving, but the problem is, not many people KNOW about these articles, so they just keep saying the same trite things society's taught them to say...and the ones who are just stupid or cruel just don't care in the first place and would never read them anyway.

And yes, I agree....if THIS is IT, something's definitely wrong with this picture! In fact, that's one of the things I've raged at my entire life, so you've really hit the nail on the head...again! You're a priceless treasure, Stellaaanne!

[stellaanne]

swede1,

This goes back to the fact that no one knows (or cares) how to comfort us as we have said before...It felt as though I was trying on my grief for a while...before recently, I really didn't know where to be with it...and I was easily swayed by things that people said...and would think about something that someone said in reference to me grieving...over and over...I still think about those things just like all the other stupid things people have said regarding me and my Mom...my parents sicknesses etc...BUT now i found the right fit for me when it comes to the grieving part...

I hold on to my Mom everyday....think about her responses to every life situation and everything i do in a day...I remember how we talked about everything that anyone said to us that pissed us off...so I still do that...I'll go to the cemetary, sit and talk to her or talk to her pictures...i do what i have to for myself...(meaning my grief)...and i still feel that i'm taking care of my Mom by doing this...I am letting her be a comfort and help in my life ....and as a good Mom, I know it made her feel good to be that for me during her life and I believe she wouldn't want to lose that role.

In regards to your sister in law...I had a friend say...Well, your mom led a long life...and You just have to accept you can't do anything about it...this like 2 weeks after she passed...bottom line: it's no one's business how, how hard, or how long we grieve....like the saying goes "it's all you"...it's on your time in your own way and that's the only way.

It took me some time to get to this...I tried on many ways and ideas about it...now i think less and less about what other people are doing and aren't doing for me and more about the relationship that could never be replaced even if my entire family beat down my door everyday...really, they would just be a bother to me if they did...so why worry about how often they call????

And anyone telling you that your Mom didn't love you, might need help themselves..

I am convinced that most people walking around acting like everything is OK are really disturbed...i'm sure the person who said this to you is like my sister in law...always in control...even toned...seemingly having everything together....yet her husband has cheated on her I don't know how many times, he's verbally abusive in front of people...(calls her flabby and fatty)...and she's about 70 lbs overweight....so sometimes you have to look at the source and know that although they are putting you way below themselves with their comments, generally it stems from their own misery...

Few things could be worse than telling someone their own Mom didn't love them...that's insane.

I had a party last night for my father's 82 bd....my family came to give my father gifts...most people as they came in at different times waited about 15 minutes before really looking in my direction, said something rude to me OR didn't want to eat and were a little cold about it...it wasn't terrible but at the same time there was absolutely no evidence that anyone felt anything toward me or what I might be going through...and if i didn't kiss their ass and keep offering food to people they most likely wouldn't have talked to me at all ...so like I said sometimes in life you need to let things go...family or not. I don't want to try anymore or wonder why I get nothing of what I need from blood relatives....it doesn't matter...

NEXT!!!

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Geez, it's almost like we're living mirror lives! Yes, you're exactly right, again....the woman who said my Mom didn't really love me IS a control nut and we believe she's only suppressing her real feelings in her own life, trying to appear absolutely perfect to others on the surface. And similar your own relative, she's been separated from her husband once, for a year...and they never even TALKED about it when they got back together after! I can't even imagine being that repressed and carrying on as if nothing had happened. It's so obvious she harbours much resentment towards him as most of her comments about ANYTHING are referenced by the phrase " WHEN *** LEFT me...." and she argues with him and denigrates him in public all the time, too. However, even knowing how screwed up she really is ( and won't recognize for herself ), it still just bugs me that she thought she was being so damn wise in her 'analysis' of my situation, disregarding my pain, which was the POINT of why we were talking about these things. I HAVE cut off most communication with her now, to protect myself. I've also noticed that, like her, those who claim to have had some kind of 'training' in helping the bereaved, seem to be pretty lousy at it. This one says she used to be a Social Worker. Another one who did poorly with me said she had once been an actual Bereavment Worker on some phone line. God! It makes me afraid to ever use one of those crisis lines, if that's the quality of their workers!

Unfortunately, for the most part, I can't do what you do with your mom's memory, since my Mom's parenting skills weren't all that great. While she did THINGS that showed her love, her emotional skills were lacking, so I didn't get much advise that I would have chosen to use in my own life - we were very different in many ways, yet similar in other stuff, like certain values or practical ways of thinking. The most I can 'hear' her say about things like this would be, " FORGET about them then!" ( said rather sharply, BTW )While it's probably good advise, it only scratches the surface, so leaves out the tender caring that should accompany it. Although, it does kind of make me chuckle...her pragmatic nature, although often a coping mechanism, COULD be somewhat amusing in that it really cut to the chase.

I've been reading about all the things people OUGHT to do for we, the grieving, but don't, and what they SHOULDN'T do or say, but someone needs to hand these out like flyers on the streets!! It just makes me more cognizant of what very tiny crumbs were thrown my way and how I never expected after TWO close losses so close together, that people would be so uncaring.

For the people at your BD party, one also wonders, if they don't care how YOU'RE feeling, why would they show up for a party for your DAD, either? A waste of good food, I say! Most people just aren't very honest about themselves and their feelings, are they?

So while I don't have to feel sorry for you anymore ( as you had explained before ) about you and your mom's life together, I CAN still feel sorry for you, too, about how others are treating you now! :-)

[stellaanne]

swede1,

well, yes we are walking similiar paths...and yes I believe a book should be written NOT so much for the bereaved (since there are already many) but for people who might care to help a person suffering a loss.

There should be a huge section on what NOT to say or do....between the two of us alone we could most likely fill a couple chapters.

I found at the party that I had for my dad a feeling came over me that i didn't expect....fear.....many people I believe are afraid of me.

I can call it rudeness and coldness because that's certainly what it looked like but for the first time, I think I saw something that didn't put them in the light that I had been seeing them in during the many months of a non ringing phone.

I don't know if it's fear of me going off and acting crazy like any burned out care-giver that had to care for, watch die then bury the most important person in their life should go off....or just fear of the pain I must be in.

I don't think it's any kind of accident or being busy....people don't want to go there...don't want to see your pain...don't want to see you cry again...

It's a great big DON'T....

I feel slightly less offended looking at it this way but no better for the treatment I received the other night.

As far as them coming for my dad...that's a given...my Dad was always the big wig of the family but since he's sick and even more crazy now...they kept their visits down to once a month maybe...that's too unpleasant for them as well.

As far as the person you describe who said those things to you...I still don't see how they could have told you your Mom didn't love you...and really you shouldn't be upset in the least about that one....mark her off your list...much as your Mom would say....forget about them then!!!!...sounds like the best advice to me...don't lose sight of your Mom's wisdom.

My Mom like yours sometimes had a way of giving advice that made me think she wasn't getting the full emotional impact of what i was saying...I accused her of being cold on many occassions in my youth especially...seemed like she couldn't feel what I was feeling...BUT BOY was Mom right about so many things...the main thing being the short, concise way she had of drawing lines...and as I get older I value that...and as I'm grieving I have to go to that advice because grieving is so much heartache to begin with ....why constantly add to it by always thinking about insensitive people...having less space for that type of hurt has made my Mom's short easy dismissals something to hold on to and tell myself to do.

[swede1]

Stellaanne,

Actually, there IS at least one book already, about helping grieving people and I assume it has things NOT to say as well ( haven't read it, but saw it on Amazon.com ) - problem is, how much of a market is there when most don't seem to care anyway? One can only hope word gets out eventually.

I'll bet you're right about the fear, as when you boil it all down, there are really only 2 feelings anyway - love, or fear of some sort. The 2 fears you suggested are pretty much the same thing and have the same consequences for people like us....they keep others away &/or from doing better things for us. I agree again; they don't want to 'go there', whether it's a reminder of their own pain or one they're unfamiliar and therefore uncomfortable with.

By sharp contrast, I actually had a really warm and fuzzy thing happen just yesterday. The friend here who lost her dad early this year emailed me, wondering why I'd been absent from the computer of late, and asked if we should talk! I said "yes, I'd like that", so she really called! Then we got interrupted by someone coming to visit her, and she was to call later, but didn't ( I was too busy by then anyway, so it didn't bother me ). So the next day, just as I arrived back home from an unexpected trip I'd had to make, there she was, sitting in her vehicle ( we live quite a ways from each other ), and she pulled out a bouquet of flowers for me!! We had a coffee and I gave her some brownies to take home, then sent her an ecard for her kindness. She'd had to come out this way anyway, but the important thing was that she thought of me, and said she couldn't leave our town w/o doing SOMETHING for me. WOW! I was blown away by her caring about how I was doing! Just this simple act made such a difference in my hope for healing someday. THIS is the kind of thing I was missing from locals and distant people alike. Apparently, me and my husband have done enough for her (all MY ideas, mind you) compared to HER relatives and other friends, for her own grief, that we're way up there in the 'worth it' category. I invited her for a dinner around Christmas, knowing she'd be having a hard time, too, and although they may be going away so she doesn't have to think about the holidays, I wanted to be sure to reach out in kind. So we'll see...but this is the kind of thing that OUGHT to be going on left,right and center.

It also helps me to know your mom, too, was rather abrupt in her advise. Yes, I also felt like my Mom didn't really FEEL the same things as I did, but like yours, was often quite correct in her judgements - it was just the delivery style that bothered me, so I often disregarded what she said...until later, when it became apparent she was right afterall! I remember many supposed friends and boyfriends she correctly pegged, when I couldn't see it at the time. However, I, like most, had to learn the hard way. But no one can tell me she didn't care about me that way, because she DID try to keep me from getting hurt by these people. God, I wish I'd known then when I could trust her judgements and when I couldn't. The problem was, she was super-critical of almost everybody, so how could I tell? And on the other hand, I didn't learn much of that balance one needs to overlook certain qualities or quirks in others when the basic package is good. So I can't blame myself, but I still regret not giving her more credit, at least for the times she was right, although I did tell her sometimes that she'd been right. It seems I've always been given someone in my life to draw those "concise lines" you talked about. Now, if I'm wary of someone, I turn to my husband, who is VERY good at pegging people w/i a very short timeframe, if I've missed the signals in my enthusiasm to look for the good in others. My fear of ending up alone, like my Mom, is what makes me more desperate to like and be liked, I suppose. So what really strikes me in the end, is that she didn't FIND anyone to be a really close friend with. Those who she used to like we all dead or moved away when her time came and in her sorry state at home ( before her stroke ), she was rejecting almost everyone, even those who HAD been friends before. I just don't want to end up in the same boat, as I've already suffered enough of that in the last 14 years to last the rest of my lifetime.

[stellaanne]

swede1,

Well,...I am very glad for your experience with your online friend. I wish you had someone in your life that was more of a constant but finding something to fill in the gaps with the upcoming holidays would be a God sent.

I have made a clear cut decision to not attend the main family function that I know my father will going to (my oldest brother's home)....I could bore you or maybe more like shock you with a few stories of past holidays and injustices toward my Mother from that camp, but I think you already have a pretty clear view of my family in general.

My grief counselor suggested working at a soup kitchen which is still a possibility...I have one friend who has been very good to me but she has a husband and two children...she did have plans to go somewhere for thanksgiving but now has said that being with me is more important to her so she is going to talk to her husband about it...but right now it's still up in the air.

It's a nightmare to think about.....I originally planned to just stay home with a stack of videos but now think that seems too depressing.

I have one grief book with a chapter called "people will say dumb things"

however, I could put that chapter to shame...truly...the person described in it is a creampuff....I got some hardcore stuff.

I wish you wouldn't look at things in terms of ending up alone....My Mom was a sweet woman...I don't know anyone who ever didn't think so...however, once she wasn't able to make the big dinners anymore and have the regular BBQ's and crab dinners, we barely saw the rest of the family or any of the remaining friends my parents had that were still alive...

I am convinced "ending up alone" is not a punishment for being a bad or disagreeable person...I am alone...so that would mean that I have been a "bad" person in my life...

I'm not saint...but NOT a bad person by anyone's standard...

I was thinking this morning how my Mom's life would have been if I wasn't here in the past 5 years....Let's just say if I do nothing else good for the rest of my life I should get a free pass to a nice place after this life...even if not heaven...at least just decent accomodations.

I am happy with myself although I beat myself up for so many years for not finding the "right" guy and getting married for not having children....I had an opportunity to move 8 hours away 6 years ago for a good job but turned it down because I didn't want to be far from my Mom....

these are all things I have second guessed for myself a hundred times...

But now I know what made me make the descisions I did...and I am satisfied that I know I did the right thing for myself and especially my Mom.

And yet I am alone....believe me there are plenty of people who are not alone that are not half as decent and noble...Just watch the shows "Cops" or "Jerry Springer" once and a while and you'll see....(ackward attempt at humor)

am I making any sense??? I'm having a bad day....

[dreamspinner3]

It has been almost four months since my mother passed away from lung cancer and I miss her so much. The last few days the grief and the pain have been very close and very hard to bear. I miss her so much and feel so alone and unprotected now. I am a 38 year old woman and you wouldn't think someone my age would feel that they need their mommy, but I do.

I am fighting depression, health problems, marriage problems, money problems, and when Mom was alive, I felt that I had a refuge in the world, a person who loved me no matter what. Now that is gone and I feel very alone and unsafe; I hate this feeling.