Anger and Depression

July 21, 2005

Hi Swede1,

not much time to write, i was looking at some other of the forums and just had to reply to a woman on grief. i will try to get online later, i have work i have to pack up and packing lists and stuff to do for delivery of work i have completed here this week. but...i did get a chance to read your post. I had no idea you had so much to deal with....i am so sorry. it makes one really think....the grass isnt always greener on the other side, aka, pitying myself because i lost ed. ( thinking no one else could possibly know my pain) but alas, a lot of people know my pain, and then some. i am reminded as i type this that about ten years ago, in wisconsin, a large catholic family was traveling from either north ill, or south wisc to the milwaukee area or farther noth. something flew off a semi trailor truck and struck the bottom of their van. the van started on fire and something like 6 of thier 7 children burned to death while the parents were desparetly trying to get their children out of the car seats and seat belts. some how they went on with their lives and have since had more children. even typing this makes me feel bad for being selfish about losing ed. but again, others feel pain and more than i have so i should be thanking god for everyone and thing he has given me!! will talk later or tomorrow, sorry just busy with work, took two weeks off and now orders are backed up :-( Carol

July 22, 2005

even typing this makes me feel bad for being selfish about losing ed. but again, others feel pain and more than i have so i should be thanking god for everyone and thing he has given me

Carol,

Yah, I feel this way, too, actually!! LOL! After I've poured my heart out, and feel a bit better because of it, I think of others whose stories are equally heartbreaking or worse, and then I feel somewhat like a whiner! So it's natural to feel BOTH ways and I don't apologize for feeling bad about my OWN story, either, as I wouldn't be hard on anyone else for THEIRS. It goes both ways, and that's what we're all here for. Hope your busyness lets up soon, so you aren't so frazzled! Chat soon! (((((hugs)))))

July 22, 2005

hi everyone, i had posted earlier on a different site on here that i was having a pretty good day, not many tears. well i guess i should not have spoken so soon. of all the places to get angry and start crying....going to the bathroom?????? am i nuts???? i got pretty angry with god for taking ed from me. i actually said out loud....give me a reason, just one good reason for taking him. geeeze now the tears are coming again. just had to post this, it helps. carol

July 22, 2005

I haven't been to this site in a very long time..But, I know that this is the only place that I can vent the way I feel I need to and it's OK!...

I AM SO MAD!!!!!!!!!! "At what?"..you ask...I'm so tired of being insulted by people who think they know what I've lost or what MY future holds!....

"You're young..Someone will come along, eventually".....I swear if I hear that again I'm going to scream! How dare these people make what Rick and I shared so insignificant...I mean, when they say that, What I hear is, "That's over..You need to just be done and move on" They have NO idea what Ricks death has done to me. How it has changed the very core of my soul...I KNOW he's gone!! I feel that pain EVERY day! I know that I'm young. But I don't know if anyone else will come along and neither do they! And if someone does, I don't know that I can give myself completely the way I did with Rick...

What he and I shared....OH GOD!...It was so special!...The kind of thing you read in fairy tales....not that we didn't have our problems, but they weren't as important as what we meant to each other....We ALWAYS worked things through and we ALWAYS knew that just because we were upset didn't mean we had to worry about our future together....(did that make sense?)

I don't know if I'll ever have that again...COMPLETE SECURITY....I can't tell you how lost I am now that that has been ripped away from me!...How raw and vulnerable I feel!...Totally exposed to all the ugly things and people in this cruel world!..And YES, I believe it IS a cruel world!

People are cruel and hurtful..They take advantage of losses and weaknesses...It's horrible...My tolerence is so low, now, that I find it hard to have a conversation with someone without thinking of how they just dont

"get it"!!

Not that I feel like I'm "better" than anyone, please don't misunderstand, but I feel almost like I'm beyond them...Does that make sense?

GOD..I'm SO exhausted!!

Thank you for letting me vent..or ramble or whatever you want to call it!

Tash

July 26, 2005

I understand the feelings about anger and depression in connection

with a tragic loss. My friend Cliff Sampson died from cancer on

May 27, 2005 and I'm still angry about what happened to him because the

last time Cliff and I spoke on May 8th, He seemed to be doing better

and he was even talking about continuing with his volunteer work

in September. However since Cliff and I were both Christians,

We knew that when the time came, We'd be together in heaven.

August 2, 2005

Just1Tash...I completely understand how you are feeling about what you and Rick had being special and people just NOT GETTING IT! It also INFURIATES ME!!!! I lost my significant other of the past 11 years suddenly early January and am still running into people who didn't realize he was gone...when I do they just look at me with a blank stare like it doesn't matter...HE WAS A HUMAN BEING AND WE HAD A VERY SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP!!!! We were so connected I can't imagine feeling like that again witn ANYONE...people just ask if I'm dating???!!!!!

I'm 48 and to make matters worse right now I'm angry with my daughter and her husband because they moved in with me about 6 mos. before Gary's passing. I have had to spend a lot of time helping them with the baby and I'm ANGRY that I didn't get to spend MORE TIME WITH HIM!!!!!

Just needed to vent!

Cindi

August 2, 2005

Hi Withani...

Rick left me on April 8th 2004....It has been the longest and shortest year and 4 mos. ever..Not a day goes by that I don't think of him or talk about him in some way....I recently took a chance on someone new...BIG MISTAKE!!! I got screwed!!..The funny thing is, I have NO idea why!....

I'm only 33 and I'm trying to move forward, but, I find my tolerance for people, now, has diminished to almost nothing....When I listen to their BS drama, all I can think is, "Are you kidding me?"...I'm a bartender so you can imagine all the drama I hear!..

I miss Rick so bad!!...I miss my life...I don't even know who I am anymore...I'm so lost without him...It's so hard because I have an 8 year old son and I am still having a hard time getting back into the routine of "just him and me"...I guess that's because I didn't want it this way..heck, I don't know!...

One thing I do know is that I don't think I'll be able to put myself out there again just to get stompted on!.....

I know what TRUE LOVE is and I just can't see myself setteling for less!....But, I also don't think I'll find anything even remotely close to what Rick and I shared!

I feel like I'm just going to be alone for the rest of my life...I mean, I always seem to end up that way...

Sorry for the pity party but I just feel so damned bad!

Tash

August 2, 2005

Hi Just1tash!!! I REALLY DON'T GET PEOPLE...I don't understand how someone could screw you over knowing that you recently loss Rick!!! We're so vulnerable after our loss and for someone to take advantage of that REALLY MAKES ME MAD!!! It's been eight months for me and I can tell you when I have gone out it seems like I have a zero tolerance now...I guess it's just the way a loss changes you. I'm sure it seems awkward being you and your son but I'm also sure he is comforting and will turn into a sensitive kinda guy that all the girls will be after later in life

How do you like bartending??? I'm considering a career change..I've been in sales a long time and was terminated a couple months after Gary's passing because my #'s were down...I guess another example of why people make me ANGRY!!! I've thought of bartending because generally I like people and like to be around live music but I'm sure it has it's down side too.

Take care (hugs)...Cindi

August 15, 2005

I had to give vent to these recent feelings, as they're not going away on their own. It's been 1.5 yrs (already!) since I lost both my Mom and oldest brother, close together, yet as most here would know, the pain isn't gone yet. We were at a BBQ party this wknd. where I learned that someone else there had lost her father this year. A few of us started asking questions and talking about it with her. She mentioned that she'd had people at work with whom she could thankfully talk after his death ( she never said if she had other family or not ). I took the opportunity to tell her that when she had asked what was wrong with me one week long ago (just after my Mom passed away) and I couldn't answer her, that it was because I couldn't yet bring myself to say it, as we were in a class together, in public, and it was my husband who took on the job of telling people for me. She never had asked again, though I was back in class a few wks. later, crying again from the loss of my brother. She now said she\'d heard about my Mom, but not my brother, so I now knew she'd not offered any condolences even after she'd heard. That alone made me angry right then and there. She then asked if I'd had anyone myself to talk to at the time and I told her that no, my whole family had abandoned me ( the only one I'd had out of the whole bunch to talk to some previously had been my deceased brother ). When we got into more details and I was trying to share some of my own story, well! What did I experience once again? The same old crap! No one would let me finish what I was saying about my OWN losses and I got cut off in mid-sentence and the subject was abruptly changed! So here I had it again - someone ELSE'S losses were important to others, but not MINE....just like my stupid family! It was bad enough the first time and here it reared its ugly head again, but ONLY in MY case!! I'm so thoroughly angry at people for continuously showing me I only deserve crumbs, while everyone else feels so bloody sorry for everyone but me! I turned away, whispering to my husband."See? No one wants to hear MY story, AGAIN." I feel like SUCH an outcast, it's unbelievable. Why do people do this and I HAVE to say, "Why Me?" because it IS just me in this case....AGAIN! It's one thing for everyone to back away from stories of death, but when it's this blatantly selective.......what is one to think?! For the whole year and a half, I've had almost no one other than my husband and counselor to speak to about my Mom and now I see that although I've been more than patient, that's still the case today. Writing on these forums is a help, to be sure, but the in-person support is still virtually non-existant and I've run out of patience with people! Thanks for 'listening'.

August 15, 2005

Swede1...I understand exactly how you feel and I'm so sorry that people change the subject when you need to talk about your mother and brother so close to your heart. Like you..I really don't have anyone who wants to talk about it family or otherwise...they always change the subject. If I'm out and about and run into someone who doesn't know about the passing of my signficant other and I tell them..and as you know..it's very hard to tell them..I just get a blank stare. No what happened??? Or I'm so sorry that happened to him..it almost makes me feel like he didn't exist to them and it makes me angry!!!!

I will listen anytime you need to vent. I don't know what I would have done without finding Beyond Indigo..it's been a godsend for me.

Hugs...Cindi

August 16, 2005

Swede1, vent all you need to. You're with friends here who care what you're going through. I'm sorry your own family is like this. Please. When we hurt, we should be able to know our family will support us through anything. I understand and agree with Cindi, how aggravating this is. When I told my parents about Stacey's death, my mother coldly said, but you still have your two other girls, and and the boys too. What's that supposed to mean? She's her granddaughter! May you find the peace you seek. Mark

August 16, 2005

No what happened??? Or I\'m so sorry that happened to him..it almost makes me feel like he didn\'t exist to them and it makes me angry!!!!
Cindi

Withani/Cindi,

Thanks for sharing that, Cindi. You\'ve hit the nail right on the head, about how it makes one feel like they never even lived, never had a life that had meaning for someone. I\'ve too often felt like all 84 yrs of my Mother\'s life was not acknowledged whatsoever and if her own immediate family AND her family-of-origin can sweep her whole history under the carpet like that, never mind those who didn\'t know her, WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A LIFE ON THIS PLANET? (My brother\'s case is a little different because he was mainly a hermit in later years, so hardly anyone knew him anymore.)Like you said, not even asking \"What happened?\" really stings. In this recent case, WE asked this other woman that question, but she never asked me the same thing back. I know that all of us want to tell our own stories ( we NEED to! ), but when in a grief group, for example, (that netted me no good friends, BTW )I was also interested in hearing other people\'s stories, too. Not only is it good manners, but how can one form a meaningful bond with others if you don\'t share? Since I don\'t think I\'m any angel myself, I find it hard to believe I\'m so much \'better\' than other people that I would think of their needs equally to my own, but they don\'t think of mine, yet this is what I\'m seeing \'out there\'. I don\'t get it! This also wasn\'t one of those cases where no one was interested at all, and their eyes glazed over cuz they wanted to talk about something less traumatic, it was that everyone, including me, was interested in this woman\'s story....but mine wasn\'t deemed as un-noteworthy. It\'s pretty hard to find out who, out there, might end up a good friend if they heard your story and responded with kindness and empathy, when you\'re never even given the CHANCE to say anything!.... I\'m so sick and tired of trying to be VISIBLE, which is what people want you to do to \'get back in the game\', then being rejected when I try to take that plunge. They\'re so stupid!.....\"Don\'t sink into your depression! But don\'t talk about your own life, either - we\'re not interested in that...but don\'t be depressed!\"

I\'m also grateful, and surprised, at getting 2 such prompt responses here to my posting, as I\'d just posted a very down-beat posting in that new forum, \"An Opinion\", not expecting to get any quick responses in this thread. So, I\'m tentatively a bit more optimistic now because of this. However, I\'m still wracking my brain about how to change things \'out there\', with well-placed comments or something clever! I\'ve spent literally YEARS trying to come out of the shell I used to protect myself, just to find maybe people liked me better as a wallflower? It\'s maddening! (and so are these stupid backslashes that appear whereever you've had an apostrophe, when you try to edit these postings!!!! I wish BI would FIX that! It makes it really hard to READ!)

August 16, 2005

Tinasdad,

Thanks to you, too, Mark, for your empathy about this. While I certainly didn't expect my dyfunctional family to respond quite like more normal people, neither did I expect them to drop right off the face of the planet as if nothing had happened at all! I still remember one of the few cards I even got for my Mom's death, from one her sisters, which said only, "Sorry, (my name)" That was IT!! No words of comfort...NOTHING! You would have thought this was someone who didn't really know EITHER of us! Then one of her other sisters didn't even TELL me when the other sister's husband died that year in the summer!!! Luckily, one cousin told me, and thank God, or I would have been framed to look like an uncaring person! As it was, my condolence card was very late because of this. I offered this aunt the option of calling me, but she never replied. I repeated the offer this summer ( after the year anniversary ) but still have heard nothing back. They're all NUTS and while I HAVE to accept that, I still rail against the Universe for sticking me in such a horrible family, where every single one of them is only out for themselves. For my brother's death, I only got one, lousy card, from this same cousin....but she'd never 'gotten around' to sending one for my Mother's death, so she doubled a card up to cover BOTH losses!! Is that TACKY or what?!?! Didn't even have the decency to go buy a separate one, and then send them both, even if one was belated. I never got ANY flowers from any of my own family (they're all in the same Province, with me in another one) and only got some from my in-laws and one local friend, for my Mother's death, and only one bouquet from someone who'd worked with my HUSBAND (I'd never even met this woman!) for my brother's death. No casseroles, no offers of help for ANYTHING, a few cards from friends, no calls, no NOTHING else. It truly was as if neither of them had ever existed....and neither did my grief to these people. No one offered to help me write the obit. for my Mom and I had to make it way too short because we had no income at the time - no offers to chip in from anybody. No service for my Mom. I could go on and on about the TOTAL LACK of anything normal, never mind kind or generous. I will NEVER forgive these people for all that they couldn't find in their shrivelled, black hearts to acknowledge the end of a life and the one left behind, the only one who even cared and loved her Mother and brother in this whole, stinking family. Heaven forbid they should recognize that the daughter has feelings, or tries to do the right things by others....or has the patience of a saint when dealing with the lot of them!! Well, NO MORE! I don't even CARE what's right anymore, they've beaten me down so badly over all this. If any of them ever contacts me again (not very likely anyway!), they're going to see a different woman; one who isn't afraid of telling them like it is! My rage is going to be directed at the appropriate sources!

On the other hand, this other woman told us of her office looking like a virtual flower shop when she came back to work, so I was standing there feeling all this hatred, envy, resentment, to begin with.....then to be so abruptly dismissed out of hand as soon as I began to speak of my own loss....I just wanted to die, for the millionth time since my Mother left. It's making me even more enraged to find the only ones who understand ANYTHING about how to treat people who are in pain, are on these boards, and it doesn't even necessarily apply to all those who have lost someone they loved - some of them are just as bad! And BTW, I'm sorry your own mother had such a chilly remark to make about your own daughter/her granddaughter. It all just sucks! I can't even imagine, myself, saying such cold, hurtful things to someone....it didn't sound like it was even an attempt to 'count your blessings', the way it was put. Tactless, that's all. Maybe what we need is to bring back etiquette classes for everyone, even those not in school anymore. What a society!

August 16, 2005

Seeing as I'm already on a rant, maybe it's time to get a whole WHACK of things off my chest. So here are a ton of things that have enraged me through the whole ordeal with my Mother's illness, then death, then my brother's sudden death 2 months later:

- I can't stand reading in newspapers about all the Thank You's to entire communities for all the wonderful support families got after their own losses. (no, I don't read them anymore, but I used to) I never got anything like that. Everyone rallying around these people, bringing them food, cards, flowers, sometimes even money, doing chores and errands for them, taking care of arrangements they couldn't handle, making donations in their loved one's memory, calling on them to sit and talk or hold their hands, people showing up in droves for the wonderful funerals/services, etc, etc, etc. My story is so entirely the opposite, I've never found a way to cope with the lack of support that now taints my Mother's death, forever. It's bad enough trying to deal with death, much less the added burden of knowing no one cared enough to do ANY of these things in memory of her life, for all she did for others, or for the only one (me) left behind to grieve (since neither my father nor remaining brother really cared that she and my other brother had died). To my tortured mind, these Thank You's look more like bragging..."Look at how much WE mean to others! Look at how important we are in the eyes of the community!" I realize they really aren't saying that, but that's how if feels in light of my own story.

- The institutions involved in my Mother's 'care', and I use this term very loosely. Between the doctors who wouldn't take my concerns about her health, meds., daily care seriously, to the nursing staff and temp. staff who didn't live up to their professional 'standards', I'm eternally sickened. Had I been able to physically be there every day or two throughout her illness, things would have been quite different...but they count on that in order to absolve themselves of doing what's right. My Mother, like countless others, was put on drugs to keep her docile (she'd been upset about many things, and rightfully and sanely so, and her illnesses didn't help matters), drugs that were contraindicated for both some other drugs AND her medical conditions AND her age. They refused to use safer drugs or to try weaning her off some of them so they could ACCURATELY assess her true mental condition. They then used this as an excuse to assess her as "incompetent" and so was committeed to the Public Trustee's office. The Public Trustee's office later gave my father, who had dementia but had not been officially diagnosed, the right to handle her estate after she died. (As a result, her only daughter (me) lost almost all of her belongings because my father was selling them off w/o anyone knowing, along with their home.)The hospital, where she ended up several times while in the 'care' of the rehab. centre, actually started her whole decline after overdosing her on blood-thinner, causing internal hemorrhaging which couldn't be corrected by surgery because she was too frail at the time. Before this boner, she'd been recovering amazingly well. As is usual policy, there was not even an apology, despite admitting it was their mistake. Rehab. wasn't even changing her diapers more than once/day. They gave her insulin shots when she wasn't testing as insulin-dependant diabetic. They tested her blood daily in the already-sore stroke-affected arm which was swelled with edema, rendering their reading inaccurate. I could go on and on. Mistakes everywhere, cover-ups everywhere. Even after she died and I asked for a call from the nursing staff to talk a little about her final days (since I wasn't there and had no dependable family source to ask), they never called. The Chief Med. Officer omitted telling me half of the information on her death certificate, thinking I didn't know what was written on it. And on and on. They all made this such an extra-stressful 6 months because they refuse to act like human beings. I know this happens everywhere, but do they think it shouldn't anger us?!?! It's not right, it never will be! If this is what they call "professional" behaviour, then I'd rather have lay-people looking after my, and my loved one's, care.

-My entire family, who made such a mockery of my Mother's life by their lack of support, lack of caring actions. Especially my father, for being such an evil, selfish person his whole, miserable life and who ruined my Mother's life and end-of-life with his insane ideas and behaviours. Even without his dementia, this was the case. I hate him and always will. He even sold the pictures of her and their wedding picture which I'd had restored and reframed for their 40th Anniversary. You didn't DESERVE my Mother for all of your 60 years with her. My remaining brother, who stole everything that was left, likely including an inheritance from another relative to our father (who was only in it for the money, anyway), for turning out JUST like our father, and for not once visiting our dying Mother though you live only 2 minutes away from where she was institutionalized. For deliberately not paying the bill for our father's home care and allowing him, as well, to be put under the Public Trustee, who also hasn't found any of the thousands you stole. May you both ROT IN YOU-KNOW-WHERE! To my 'sister-in-law' who thought it "incredibly self-indulgent" for me to be grieving for my Mother and who wondered if I " even cared" that my brother, her partner, had died. For trying to take my place as the only daughter, by hitting my other brother up for money that should go to him and me. Who never offered to try and get some of the remaining family photos to me, from my brother who refused to give me any copies. And most especially for saying it was an answer to your prayers that my brother was taken by God, to solve YOUR dilemmas with him, and for deliberately delaying his trip to Emerg. so that he WOULD die - THAT wasn't God's doing, it was YOURS. All of you are evil, cruel people and I can't wait to see you get yours in this lifetime!

There IS more, but I'm leaving it at that for now because I think I'm going to explode!

August 16, 2005

Swede1....You have been through so much my friend...and I'm happy that you're able to speak of it. There is so much that happens after the passing....so much abuse of the survivors it sometimes seems unbearable. I myself have been angry for a very long time with the "professional" care that my beloved Gary received and without being legally connected to him he's doctor would not speak to me. Like you this was a very hard pill to swallow. We were together 11 years and with his passing his exwife of 12 years took all his belongings which did not have any value but were memories he and I shared. The entire 11 years there was no one around..no family...no friends...and then when it came to his memorial service it was his exwife's husband (who she had been having an affair with two years prior to their separation) giving the eulogy and then ended with her singing "I Hope You Dance". Gary's brother came into town from Colorado two days before his service and his ex..her husband..and Gary's son went to dinner with he and his wife. After the fact she told me she would have invited me but it would have changed the "dynamics" of the dinner. I supppose it was because I was actually SAD can you imagine that!!! I struggle to forgive them everyday...I don't want to hold in my anger and resentment because it will hurt my children as well as myself and Gary would not have wanted that.

I am sure your mother feels very fortunate to have raised a daughter such as yourself and what a WONDERFUL connection you have with her. I can tell by your posting that although you are angry the love you have for your mother and brother pours through. I feel sorry for your father and remaining brother.

It's unfortunate the some of us didn't receive the ceremonious rallying around...would have been nice but I believe in the end what matters most is did you love...and you DEFINITELY DO MY FRIEND!!!

Take care and remember there are many here that care about YOU!!!

HUGS...Cindi

August 16, 2005

I am new to this site.... I am not sure where to begin. My Father passed away june15,2005. He went in for surgery on May25th. He had to have esphogaus surgery. He was only 58 and in very good health. All went well with the main surgery but after a few days he had some trouble breathing. So they thought that there was some fluid by his lungs and so they wanted to drain it. All in All when they went in to drain the fluid they ripped through my fathers lungs. He was placed in to c.v.i.c.u and 10days later he had bleeding from his lungs and mouth that caused to death from there mistake. I am so angry I don't know to do with my self . He was my best friend my family is a mess and have no idea what to do next. We never got to say goodbye. And All I want to do is scream at all the dr.'s and the staff "YOU MADE A MISTAKE FIX IT". I know that nothing could bring him back i just miss my dad so much i would do anything to be able to have him back.

August 17, 2005

Dear Withani/Cindi,

It was nice to hear your kind and empathetic words. It seems like you and I are very alone in some similar ways.

I know how frustrating it is to not have any legal say in things. Frankly, I don't even know just when this changed, but I found out suddenly that even the immediate family doesn't count, only the legal spouse, which meant my father, who has dementia! What a ridiculous system! My C.L. husband and I have financial Power of Attorney for each other, but still need to get the one that covers medical POA issues, to avoid such nonsense. I couldn't believe that a child of the marriage had no say, either. It felt like just another way my relationship with my Mother was swept under the carpet like so much flotsam.

Yes, the medical system sucks, both in the U.S. and in Canada. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Too many of us have suffered at their hands and that's even more obvious the more posts you read about mistakes, ill care, noncommunication.....I don't know how they sleep nights for all the wrong they do people. I know there are some good ones, but they're farther and fewer between than ever before in our history. I wish doctors would read these boards to see what they've irrevocably done to so many of us!

What Mark's family and ex did to you was despicable! "Dynamics" indeed! I suppose the only comfort you might find from that is knowing how horrible it would have been to be around such putzes for dinner....but I realize of course, you were needing some closeness, or the hope of same, and didn't get it, but got an insult instead. I just can't imagine acting like that unless I was maybe still in high school, and even then I remember including people we didn't really get along with at certain events, for the sake of not wanting to be mean! Some folks just never grow up!

For my brother and father, I'm afraid I can't feel sorry for them one little bit. :-) They each CHOSE their paths and one of many consequences of that for them is going to be my honest reaction to their evil and selfish ways. My father was told, in no uncertain terms, by MY ex, long ago, that he would die a lonely, old man. My Mother never forgot that and kept warning him his behaviour would result in that reality. Now that's exactly what is happening. Even one of his sisters is happy to see him get his, he's hurt so many good (and bad) people all his life. My brother never visited him, either, in the home he's in - again, only about 5 minutes away from him...but he's taking all his money and possessions. The only thing I feel remotely good about is knowing that most of that money is probably dirty money anyway. The part that bothers me though, is that he wouldn't have HAD any money if not for my Mother's hard work, scrimping and saving, bailing him out from bad money management, so really most of that money belongs to HER as far as I'm concerned. So I hate to see my brother get the fruits of HER labors. He never appreciated a THING she ever did for him, he's so wrapped up in his own pity-pot and resentment of everyone else on the planet. So no, I can't feel sorry for either one of them. They deserve no peace until they decide to change and I'm afraid it's too late for that. I suppose that's MY only 'reward' - seeing them live miserable lives with not one soul to care about them. Too bad, so sad. They made their beds, now they can sleep in them....alone!

Well, there was yet ANOTHER rant! I got a million of 'em! ;-) Now I've forgotten what else I was going to respond to, and I can't see your post, since it only shows the last one in the thread! Next time.

August 17, 2005

I am so angry I don't know to do with my self . He was my best friend my family is a mess and have no idea what to do next. We never got to say goodbye. And All I want to do is scream at all the dr.'s and the staff "YOU MADE A MISTAKE FIX IT". I know that nothing could bring him back i just miss my dad so much i would do anything to be able to have him back.

Breezy(forgot the #),

I can certainly understand your anger! I feel much the same way myself, even though my Mother APPEARS to have died some time after the medical overdose that started her decline. I say "appears" because my father swore that they deliberately killed her with a blow to the head and although he had/has dementia, he'd caused so much trouble there, AND we know my Mother said some of the staff was "rough" with her, that there is still some doubt in my mind about whether there was ANYTHING fishy about her last stroke. My father never chose to do an autopsy and he was the only one in the family who could have legally ordered one. But if nothing else is true, I still believe she would have been alive yet had they not caused her internal bleed in the first place. In the end, I KNOW the staff wanted nothing more than to see both of my parents get out of their hair, so who knows?......Whether suspected or definite, these things aren't easy to live with, and I have no ready answer for you, except to suggest you may want to see if you can at least get an apology out of one of them. Not likely at all, I know, but short of suing the institution ( and not much successes in those, usually ), I've heard many people would feel at least a LITTLE better getting even that - some accountability....but it doesn't usually happen, the medical field is so insular and paranoid about culpability. They get more training in legal matters than in basic nutrition, from what I've heard.

In any case, many of us have issues with things like this, but I'm not even sure what we're supposed to DO about them, short of taking on some huge project of trying to change the system....and venting, not keeping that rage bottled up inside where it can make you sick. I'm so sorry you lost your dad to such a screw-up and wish I could turn back the clock for you, too, as I wish for myself. If you still need to rant, go right ahead, as you can probably tell, I'M not holding back lately, here!! It's just the start of your own grief journey and if we don't hear from you again here, I wish you the best of luck and support. If you stick around, we'll be here to offer what we can. If it helps, I never got to say good-bye, either and we could chat about that more, too, if you like.

August 24, 2005

FeelingAlone....I'm am very sorry to hear of the loss of your father on the 13th...I lost my significant other of 11 years January 2nd this year and the best thing I can say to you is just take one day at a time. You're overwhelmed with the responsibility of decisions that can only be made over time. Be good to yourself...try to relax the best you can and the important decisions will come in time. I understand the sentimental value of things and nothing of value so these will all have to be decisions of the heart.

God bless you and hugs...Cindi

August 24, 2005

Feelingalone,

I understand your rage, believe me! I also went through (and am still, unfortunately) having to deal not only with an entire lack of pre-arrangements for my Mother's death, but horrid family-of-origin members to deal with afterwards. NOTHING was done right, my Mother never even got a memorial and as far as I know, my last brother still has her ashes in the cardboard box in his closet. When you're feeling this angry I think it's helpful to know there are others who've gone through ridiculously unacceptable and needlessly frustrating things, too. These thing only compound the grief. I'm not trying to minimize your frustrations, but it may help you to know I had to buy back my Mother's china set from a stranger my father had sold it to, and everything else was lost to strangers as well (untraceable), including most of our family photos, portrait photos of my Mom and all things sentimental. I had only managed to snag a few, small items and some of her clothes when my father allowed me a total of only 5-6 hours over 2 days to be in their house. My brother has whatever else was left and has stolen all their money for himself. He is also Executor of our father's Will, which was redone when our father was in the height of dementia. So you can see, I, too, have much cause for rage. (and this is only a small portion of my angry story!)

What I would suggest to you is to try getting that anger OUT, in whatever form works for you. Writing, pounding inanimate objects, venting on these boards, talking about it to whoever will listen, etc. At least try to let SOME of the steam escape, lest you make yourself physically ill, then have to deal with that, too! There's nothing inherently wrong with anger, and especially when it's a justifiable reaction to unfairness. You just don't want to take it out on the wrong people, if you can help it, because that will only make things worse. This is not to say you shouldn't direct it towards those who act terribly and bring it on, but there are usually better ways of stating your case to people like that than just hauling off at them....again, just not to make things worse for yourself in the long run.

As for the drinking problem, I've had to deal with that all my life, and in fact, that was the underlying reason my Mother died in the end, the start of all her physical problems, and certainly a huge part of the dysfunction in the family.......along with my father's drinking and abuse as well. So I know what it's like to deal with the mountain of fall-out from growing up with an alcoholic. If your dad's girlfriend was his drinking partner, it's not surprising she's acting the way she is. (Have you ever tried any groups such as Al-Anon, for yourself? You can get a good education from them, OR Codependant's Anonymous, which I attended after Al-Anon years ago) This kind of family background definitely impacts your grief NOW and your past issues need to be dealt with at the same time, which makes it a tall, but necessary order if you truly want to heal eventually. It wasn't fair for your dad to leave all arrangements and entanglements to you, but such is the thinking of those who drink and can't stop. It's maddening but true. YOU are not the one who has failed!!!! You need to get to the place where you can believe this and look at things in a more balanced and clearer way. It was your DAD'S problem that started the whole mess and although you're the one left to pick up the pieces, you don't need to carry around a 'shouldy' attitude about yourself. But FEEL, EXPERIENCE the rage whenever you have to, for as long as you have to....just direct it where it belongs and that's NOT towards yourself!

August 26, 2005

swede1, thank you for your advice, I do need to go into alanon. I have never dealt with my dad's drinking which is a huge issue and why I act the way I do. I have not faced the issue. I'm sorry that you are dealing with so much. It just does not make sense, why everything has to be so hard. it is bad enough that you had lost your mother and then have to deal with your brother and father. I am sorry. If you need to talk feel free to write.

August 26, 2005

Feelingalone,

Thank you muchly for your offer to chat! Although I often try to give help to others on these boards, it's not like I don't also need some shoulders to lean on, too...especially with all the mess surrounding my losses....so thanks.

No, it doesn't make sense, but then many things in my family never did. I guess I was just hoping against hope that 2 such important losses might actually wake my remaining brother up to the fact that he and I are the only 2 left, really, since our father's mind is totally gone and neither of us were close to him anyway. But it just made my brother act MORE like he really is ( not uncommon, but sad nonetheless ), which is....a LOT like our father! I've even asked a cousin if she or her mother (my aunt) might have some of their own pictures with my Mom in them, but she's never replied. They all just make me feel like I'm just...not...worth...it, echoing my own family's theme. This was the WORST thing, and time, for extended family to send such a message.

Yesterday I got a package in the mail from one of my father's sisters, who I only started to get to know SINCE my Mother died. It contained a few pic's of my parents' 25th Anniversary from decades ago, with my whole family standing together. They were some of the ones that my Mom had had at home.....I cried yet again, both in gratitude that SOMEONE was kind enough to give me what I've needed, to have a couple more pictures of the 'old days' with my Mom, and of course because she's gone now and I miss her, miss the connection with her here. But this came from the side of the family I was NEVER close to in any way, shape, or form, and there's been NOTHING from my Mom's side, those I grew up with more. I don't know what's so wrong with people that they can't reach out just a little bit, especially when one is specific about what one needs or wants from them. I've mentioned more than once that I'd like to reminisce about my Mom, but no one in her family has obliged me whatsoever....and they're the ones who knew her! It's not something a stranger can do. It's one thing to not even have a memorial, but then to be cut off, from the time someone dies, from ever having a conversation about their life with those who HAVE memories of them.....it's just too crazy, too much to accept, even FROM crazy people! Anyway, these are the last pictures I'm ever likely to see or get, and it made it feel, yet again, like I was losing her all over again. Thanks for listening, and if you have any feedback ( doesn't have to be 'advise', just sharing ), I'd be happy to hear it.

August 26, 2005

Swede1, although bittersweet with memories, what a kind act to send you the photos of your Mom. Many of us grew up in less than desirable families, yet we survived. My history wasn't pleasant, and so much of it I'd rather not tell anyone. Some of us have done well, because what could have turned our hearts cold, seems to have strengthened yours, and given you compassion and care for people. You have given me such wisdom and heartfelt advice, I can never thank you enough. I don't know why your family would be negative toward you talking about your Mom. My mother only gave me animosity and abuse, so I wonder what a loving mother is like. Sometime, if you feel comfortable about it, you are welcome to reminisce about her all you want. May you have enough for your needs. Peace to you. Mark

August 27, 2005

Alwaysmyjennifer,

Thank you, Mark, for that, and for the compliment. I guess I'll just never really understand how my siblings couldn't see a.) what was wrong in the family, and b.) why they couldn't see it would be a GOOD thing to change what was wrong! I'll always be totally jealous of those who have such loving upbringings that they sail through life with confidence, happiness and positivity, not understanding what a daily struggle it is for us unfortunates to just continue surviving, not thriving, except maybe with great, sweating effort.

Perhaps I WILL share some of my memories of my Mom sometime, although I see 2 problems.......there is no forum dedicated to reminiscing (!),so I don't know where I'd put it, and of course, none of you can provide me with other memories I either don't have myself, or have forgotten without a reminder. And that's what I'm really missing. I don't know if I'll ever have enough for my seeming needs....I always feel, since childhood, and like most people from highly dysfunctional backgrounds, like there's such a hole, it could NEVER be filled up completely. Feeling "whole" is a concept I can't even grasp and it feels like the brass ring to me....I just can't catch it.

As for my family/relatives, my Mom's one sister who I'd always talked to, seems to be medically paranoid and of course also suffers from the same emotional fall-out as my Mother did, from THEIR lousy family background, so became even more irrational when my Mom, one of her closest sister, died. I caught the backlash. Because she was so toxic for me, I had to stop contacting her and she hasn't tried to call me, either, since. I only talked to one other sister occasionally, and none of the brothers still alive ( it was a huge family once ), and the last sister has never called despite my repeated invitations to her. None of them were ever normal, and it took my Mother's death for even ME to see that, lo and behold, my Mother was one of the more 'normal' in a whole family of crazies! SHE wouldn't have quit phoning her relatives like they've done - if nothing else, she always kept trying to make connections with people, to get the love she craved as much as the rest of us. She was SUCH a strong woman, despite her problems. I had one cousin who I THOUGHT was going to lend me support, but she seems to have forgotten all about me and I refuse to go begging for crumbs anymore, from anyone. I've done that all my life, and it's just not a worthy thing to do to oneself. So that's why I sit here without a family of any sort, except for my husband and furchild. I'm wondering lately if I should put my neck on the line and ask some of my Mom's OTHER siblings if THEY have any pictures of her, but it would be really weird, and then they'd start gossiping among themselves, so I don't know if that's wise. I had a dream last night, after looking at the pic's again, that was obviously replaying my recent feelings of losing my Mom all over again. She died once more, and I felt lost once more. I'm not doing well again, today. Grief is so hard.

August 28, 2005

Swede1, I am sorry that we are unable to give you memories, the ones you need, about your Mom. I also see the problem of no thread to place them on. There is a Memories thread for spouses, but not parents. My apologies to you for a few of my low points lately. I'm sure they've rubbed off on people and are easily seen. I'm feeling miserable about the rejection I've gotten from my family since my daughters have entered my own family landscape. I have only one member of my family now talking to me. I'll cope and get through it. I thought about your dilemma with the photos, and I wonder if a very carefully worded letter, kinda saying that you'd like to share in your Mom's memories, or celebrate her life, may soften them without the gossip? It's just a thought from a guy who faces many of the same issues. My parents won't let me have photos of me and my Harley, much less any family. My best to you. May you have peace. Mark

August 29, 2005

Swede1,

I am so sorry things are at an emotional head for you right now. Your words brought me so much comfort on the other thread, that when I read how truly angry and grief stricken you were I had to write you. Your wisdom and kindness come across so strong, no one would ever believe your are suffering so much. I too have siblings that have made not only my mom\'s death more difficult, but allowed me to provide much of my mother\'s care for the last 19 years. I ask daily your question \"what is wrong with people?\" It makes me so angry when family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. aren\'t willing to take themselves out of their comfort zone to give to you. People are just very selfish, and if it isn\'t going to benefit them, well who needs it? Just 6 weeks prior to my mom\'s death, my father-in-law passed away. My husband and his family had much support due in large part to my acts of kindness, yet when my mom passed, well they were still grieving. I don\'t want it to sound like I got nothing, but even my own husband couldn\'t muster the emotions I needed. Many of our friends had already given to our family the 6 weeks before so.....no calls, or cards. Without giving you advice, I (on good days) try to remember the people who did and do show expressions of sympathy instead of those who did not. I know that my mother taught me better, and I will, hopefully, always do the thing that would make her proudest.

August 29, 2005

Lemonhead,

Thanks so much for coming to my aid on this thread as well. It's always so nice to get feedback on the venting! It feels better, if you know what I mean, to hear about others who also have problems with their families, as it decreases that feeling of alienness. Although I was one of those who never knew what exactly to do or say when someone had lost someone, at least I always offered something, and listened politely if they wanted to talk about their feelings, and I guess, coming from the lousy background I had, I find it even more amazing that 'healthier' people can't seem to bring to the table even as little as that. You're bang-on, labeling it their "comfort zone", and it makes me wonder if those zones have diminished a lot in the last few decades. I think we've been duped into believing that life can be alot more perfect than it is and so most won't let in ANYTHING to disrupt that fallacy. Plus, the sheer busyness (that's crazy and not good for us!) of people's lives makes them think they absolutely can't spare even a minute for anyone else's woes. It's really sad and frightening how we've regressed as nations in that area.

I feel as bad for you as for myself, hearing that you got no cards, etc. supposedly because of the closeness of the losses between the 2 families. Personally, except for the ones who are the most stricken, I don't think that's a good enough excuse to not run to the store for at least a card! The heavily-grieving ones maybe don't have the strength, but everyone else should be able to muster some! So now WE'RE left with needing sessions of "Ain't it awful?!", and that's not fair. I, too, have made a point of repeatedly thanking those few who did let me talk, sent me things, etc. but there just aren't enough of them. Will write more later, but have to get to a therapy appt. now - yeah! more help!

August 29, 2005

Alwaysmyjennifer,

Thanks for your feedback on this, too. Oh, it's terrible that some of us have such mean families. I didn't realize you were in the same boat with pic's. and to have it come from BOTH parents, is even worse! At least I know my Mom would have WANTED me, of all the kids, to get those photos and do something loving with them. She'd always wanted to put them in more order, in several photo albums, but got too sick to do that. And that should have been my clue, when I was there to sort thru her clothes.....there must have been 6 new, blank albums in one of her drawers....and all the pic's in the closet across from them, plus more in another drawer....and I could have grabbed them then, but didn't want to because my father was watching almost every minute, and kept asking repeatedly, "Where are all our pictures?!". I must have told him 3-4 x's where they were, to get him off my back, then felt he just MIGHT remember and (rightfully) accuse me of stealing them. Plus, my oldest brother who was there with me (before he died only about a month later) had also wanted some, so I was hoping he'd be able to get back in there and take them himself, so we could share them. We never even imagined that our 'problem' brother would want any, as he never cared a hoot about family stuff. Later, my dad either sold most of them, or burned them, along with goodness knows what else, in the BBQ. Although I have a feeling my last brother retrieved more of them from the household stuff left than he let on.

Anyway, my counselor had me do a little exercise revolving around these pic's and how I'm feeling so guilty for not being as good a daughter as I'd wanted to be to my Mom. We'll see if it helps in a few days, but I'm not supposed to dwell on the guilty feelings for now. I heard my Mom's voice say, in my head, "But you WERE there for me," and can only hope it really WAS her, and not my tortured imagination. I don't think letters would help much, because most of the remaining siblings are male farmers, and I don't imagine they'd even have many photos themselves, much less the time to go thru them, make copies, mail them, etc. Part of the problem is that they're all quite old now, too, with many in their 80's, which is part of the reason I made my request thru my younger cousin, who would have more energy for such a task. I guess I'm just going to have to be satisfied with what I do have, and that will probably take more time and effort on my part. I also have to think more about whether those pictures would have brought me comfort in some way, or just a hanging-on to the past. If I can find a steadier way to access my Mom's spirit, and carry on more of a continuing relationship with her, I won't feel as much of a need for mere photos. I just never, ever thought things would turn out to be as much of a shmozzle as they are.

Thanks, too, for your suggestion on "An Opinion", for somewhere to write about memories. That was extremely thoughtful of you and I really appreciate it! :-)(Kelly wants more of an explanation about that now, BTW)

September 1, 2005

All my life I have put up with my family\'s negative behavior towards me which behavior is fostered by my mother. My mother is sweet, kind, charismatic, feeds the hungry and mentally abuses her daughters but not her sons. I\'ve always loved her out of obedience to God. I\'ve noticed if she calls and I\'m crying she gets mad and says, \"Honey, don\'t beat yourself up. You were a good mother.\" She has started vicious gossip based on lies about me which has come between me and my sisters. Of course, they don\'t question what she says and conveniently abandon me. I\'ve been consumed with trying to figure out what I said and to whom that got everyone to turn against me in my hour of need.

Yes, I have anger towards my family now and they deserve it. One of my pathetic sisters called and apologized and thought after two seconds that she could change the subject and talk about her needs. Sorry sister. I\'m not home for you now nor ever again will be. God didn\'t put us here to slander each other and make life difficult for any one of his children. I don\'t hate them; I loath them. I just have to protect myself from their evil ways. I plunge into deep despair each and every time I have contact with my sisters and mother because of their lack of compassion and understanding.

I have no doubt in my mind that I was a good mother because I\'m a good person. My relationship with my beautiful son was authentic and based on pure love and respect and truth. My son and I have been dealing with his terminal illness and his recuperation from having a heart transplant and now death for eight long years. I\'ve seen my son\'s chest cutup in all corners and depths down to his rib cage. Never have I broken down and been unable to be there for my son. But this BS has broken me down and now God and I have to have some serious talks because I don\'t want to go to Hell and not be reunited with my son. I always had my son to turn to for comfort and advice when I had a problem with my family which was practically weekly. My Mother thrives on creating havoc within the family.

I am sure God is just as angry as I am because they messed with me while I was in mourning and added to my grief.

I see light at the end of the tunnel for me only if I am diligent about not letting my family in whilest I grieve for my lost child so that I can again enjoy life as God intended. I am so saddened with life's ambiguities. The mystery of life is really getting me down and I can't let it as I want to be reunited with my sunshine boy CHRISTOPHER WALDEN BURKES, a free spirited soul.

I\'m crying now out of relief that I could sit in one place for more than a minute. Thanks.

September 2, 2005

Chumba, I am sorry that you too have such a family problem. I feel I'd like to correct something she said to you. She said you were a good mother. Permit me to correct that, and say that you ARE a GREAT MOM. I've wrestled with the adoption search issues for a few years, and the children in those situations think of a mother as someone who brings a child into the world, and a Mom is the one who nurtures and rears that child into being a loving and mature adult. I think you are doing well in standing up for right before your family. I'm proud of you. You have enough stress for now, so I just wanted to give a little encouragement. May you receive the comfort and peace you need.

September 2, 2005

Swede1, okay, we won't let you dwell on guilty feelings. You have reason to be satisfied, and proud, because you were the one who was "there" for your Mom when she needed her children. You cared for her, nurtured her, fed her, and even most likely were the one who bathed her. She must love you so much, and very proud of her daughter, for caring for her so well.

September 2, 2005

Always,

Thanks, Mark, for the help in trying to keep that guilt down. Yes, I was the one more fully there, although it was only for 2 lousy days at a time, and all I could do the first trip was play along with her hallucinations, clip her nails, swab her bloody tongue (she was SO dehydrated!) and give her some water from a sponge, as her swallowing reflex was almost gone at that point. But we did thank each other in a couple of ways. The second time, I did feed her (and my stupid father had to go and make a CONTEST out of it!;ended up telling him to leave the room, then had to deal with all the indigestion he caused her, which meant more procedures for her, etc., wasting our precious time together)...but no, I couldn't bathe her as she was in a Broda chair or in bed, fully immobile, by then. That was when I discovered they hardly ever changed her diapers, so she'd developed a raging infection which I knew from talking to a friend who worked in admin. in a senior's home, wasn't being treated in the proper manner to get rid of it. Because of my concern, they 'aired her out' while I was there, which just made me realize how very much WASN'T being done with no one there to keep on top of things FOR her. I felt so deficient and powerless when I had to leave again, knowing neither my father nor brother would take care of these things. Hell, my brother wouldn't even KISS her on the cheek that visit, until I TOLD him to! While my father was there pretty much every day for about an hour (that's all he would spare her in his 'busy' day ), all he would do was rant and rave and get her upset....never, in all of 6 months, did he once take her for a ride around the complex, or wheel her down to watch some T.V. ( and he wouldn't pay, from HER own govt. cheques!) to get a T.V. hooked up in her private room for her ( they'd had to give her her own room because he upset ALL the patients so badly ). In fact, he had a royal fit when he learned I'd taken her outside for 1/2hr. and didn't shut up about it for over another 1/2hr.! Accused me of trying to KILL her by letting her get some fresh air, lest she get pnuemonia! (never mind all the GERMS that reside inherently in those places) But this was my undying frustration, only made much worse after that final visit, when I truly knew the extent of her suffering by him and the staff. And of course, when I wasn't there anymore, they didn't want to listen to my concerns, because there was no one there to keep an eye on their lack of care. It makes my heart just collapse with regret. And see?....I still carry a LOT of anger about all of it! She wanted me to just take her home, and I couldn't. I realized that, even IF they would have allowed her to go home to die, she wouldn't have been fed or bathed or anything and my father claimed they had no money to pay for 24-hr. home care....another lie, since they found several thousand dollars of just HER money later on. That #!!**@! let her rot in there. Never brought flowers or anything, even once. You can't imagine how much I hate him. It's not even equal justice that he's now the one in a home, wheelchair-bound now too, sitting alone all day...because his mind is totally gone, so he's likely not suffering mentally and emotionally, as he made my Mom do. I can't help these feelings of revenge, as he put us all through such hell all our lives. I don't know what we all deserved to have such a father directing our lives. If it's true that you actually pick and choose WHO will be your parents and siblings before you incarnate here....then I must have been totally off MY rocker, too! I didn't do enough, Mark, and could NOT have done enough EVER, to change her horrible life with this 'man', so all I can do now is tell myself that it was HER choice(s) that got her and kept her in this living hell....but it doesn't help MUCH to ease this daughter's grief. I DO think she knows now how much I WANTED to help, at least, although she didn't know of all the months prior to and after my visit that I was trying to effect some change over the phone every week, and ironically, we could hardly even afford for me to be making all those calls....had I known things would turn around financially later, I would have rung up more debt THEN and called EVERY day, but that's just hindsight again. Near the end, I couldn't talk to her anywhere NEAR the amount I wanted to anyway, because the staff wouldn't oblige me in getting her to the nurses' station to take the calls, and wouldn't watch to make sure she didn't drop the phone. I usually got to talk to her only about 5 minutes in a 15 minute call because she couldn't find the phone in her lap. It was awful....and I think I have to go beat a pillow or something now! ( well, no one told me I couldn't revisit the RAGE this week! )

September 2, 2005

Chumba,

I'm so sorry for you, too, and what you've had to go through with your family. Please read my posting below to get a feel for our shared family pains (although this is only the tip of the iceberg with my family). I think you've picked the quintessential word there.......LOATHING. That pretty much sums up MY feeling, too....although I don't really think the English language HAS the perfect word to describe it totally!

September 2, 2005

Swede1, how is it, that you can give me such sweet support and strong encouragement, when you are hurting so deeply in your heart? From the depths of sorrow and pain come the most caring of thoughts for a soul. I cried reading the painful things you have suffered. They make my situation seem rather sedate and minor. I'm not sure if my parents are even close to yours, but I told them about my daughter in May of this year, and since have received animosity, pompous animated holiness, complacency, even the most bitter of threats. Unless they need me for some social duties within the family, they don't call or write at all. I will offer you this. If you'd rather talk about this offline, you may use my email address. Look up my Tinasdad posts, and the profile will give you the address. My heartfelt best to you. Give yourself a break and do something just for you, even if you tell your husband he is going to take you out to dinner. You need to be pampered too. Mark

September 2, 2005

IM NOT SURE IF I SHOULD BE WRITING NOW,,,BUT IF I DONT PUT WHAT IM DOING DOWN IN BLACK AND WHITE,,,IM NOT SURE IF WHAT IM DOING IS EVER GOING TO END. THIS WEEKEND WILL BE 4 WEEKS THAT DAD PASSED ON....THE FIRST WEEK I DID WHAT THEY CALL \\\\\\\"MAKING ARRANGMENTS\\\\\\\" THE SECOND WEEK I STAYED ON WITH MOM AND MY FAMILY AND TRIED TO SORT OUT MOM\\\\\\\'S PAPERWORK, WHICH SHE WAS BOMBARDED WITH,,,IT MADE ME VERY ANGRY THAT DAD WAS NOT EVEN BURIED AND THE MASTER DEATH FILE ALERTS EVERY AGENCY IMAGINABLE THAT HE IS DECEASED,,,,TOTALLY DISREPECTFUL,,,,SO TO SPARE HER I KEPT ON GOING,,JUST DID NOT SLEEP AND COMFORTED MY TWO DAUGHTERS, 28 AND 12 YEARS OLD THAT LIVE IN THAT STATE WITH MY PARENTS,,,,,,THE THIRD WEEK I HAD TO COME BACK HOME,,,,SO HERE I AM, SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES AWAY AND WAS OK THE FIRST FEW DAYS,,,JUST STAYED REAL BUSY CLEANING AND RUNNING AROUND IN MY CAR AIMLESSLY,,,,....WELL, ONE WEEK AGO WE WERE HIT WITH HURRICAINE AND LOST ELEC FOR 5 DAYS AND THAT IS WHEN I WENT DOWNHILL,,,,,SINCE LAST THURSDAY I HAVE STOPPED TALKING TO ANYONE, CANNOT GET DRESSED, CANNOT CONCENTRATE,,,,,I FINALLY SLEEP DURING THE DAY AND STAY AWAKE ALL NIGHT ALONE WHEN NO ONE CAN BOTHER ME,,,,,IT IS CRAZY,,,I CALL MY MOM EVERY DAY AND PRETEND I AM OKAY,,,,,BUT IM LOSING MY MIND AND AFRAID TO GO OUT OF THE HOUSE,,,,,,NOT TO THE STORE, NOT THE LIBRARY AND NOW I DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE,,,,,I JUST WATCH IT RING UNLESS IT IS MOM,,,,,FORGET ALL THE CLEANING AND THE PROJECTS I STARTED,,,,,,I AM NOT EVEN CRYING THAT MUCH ANYMORE,,,,IM JUST PAINFULLY AWARE THAT DAD IS GONE AND I CANNOT CHANGE IT,,,,,,,,,,I WANT TO LET HIM KNOW THAT IM REALLY TRYING TO DO BETTER AND THAT I NEED HIM AS MY FRIEND,,,,,,,I LIVE ALONE DOWN HERE, AND HAVE NO FRIENDS, NO SIGNIFICANT OTHER.......I LIVE IN THIS WORLD IN MY OWN HEAD,,,,,,AND I MISS HIM SO BAD,,,AND I MISS MY MOM-THE WAY SHE WAS WITH DAD,,,SHE HAS CHANGED,,,,HER SPIRIT IS GONE AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ALL MY LIFE SHE SEEMS FRAGILE AND IM SO AFRAID SHE WILL NOT COME BACK ...I KNOW THAT SHE HAS NOT EVEN BEGUN TO RECOVER , THEY WERE IN LOVE FOR 61 YRS ,,,HOW CAN I POSSIBLY COMPLAIN ABOUT MY LOSS.......IVE TRIED ONE GRIEF GROUP AND THERE WERE ONLY 2 HOPSICE AIDES THERE,,,,,,I SMOKE LOTS OF CIGS AND DRINK CUP AFTER CUP OF COFFEE,,,,,,,,,,,,IM NOT SURE WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT,,,JUST WANTED TO MAKE CONTACT WITH OTHER SOULS............L

September 2, 2005

Madamystic, please, know that the feelings of grief you feel are normal, and you are not in your situation alone. In many ways, you have both changed since your Dad died. I am sorry for your loss, and my heart sympathizes with you. This despair will ease up, and you will begin to feel better. I am so deeply sorry you are facing such difficulties with your Dad's final arrangemnents. I know that you don't want to face people, so for a while, you won't want to go to a market, even for necessary food. Just rest, and in a couple more days, you should feel stronger, and more like attempting a trip to the market. When you go, just, take care of business, and don't engage in chit chat with people you don't want to to talk to. You are doing the best thing now by writing, and I hope you will write often. You may post several times a day if you need to. It's ok. We'll be here to listen and help you. Take gentle care of yourself. My thoughts and prayers are with you. May peace be yours.

September 3, 2005

AlwaysmyJennifer:

Thankyou for your kind words of comfort....I know you are right and this despair may ease up at with time ,,,,,but it is ironic how hard we are on ourselves when we crumble......I still have not dressed or left the house,,,but at least I know that I am not crazy,,,,,,,This loneliness is all consuming,,,,,,I don\'t want to speak to anyone,,,but soon I will follow ur advice and try to make a trip to the store,,,,,Im not a dramatic person,,,but I shake physically when it is time to leave the house and I find excuses not to go........Losing Dad was more than him being physically gone,,,it changed my whole life,,,,it altered my universe in more ways than I have time to write,,,,,my husband was murdered in 95 and there were two years of denial right afterwards,,,,,,,it was to have an effect on my life and those of my children......I don\'t like to think about it right now because I am not the same person,,,I did not handle my grief at all and therefore my grief handled me,,,,,,It took years to come out of it...........I thank you for listening and it is comforting to know that there are others out there who care and in the same situation as I, just different circumstances........You are all in my thoughts.....and I pray we all find the strength to get through our sorrows............and one more day,,,,,,,,L

September 3, 2005

Madamystic. WOW! On top of the loss of your Dad, you also lost your dear husband too. And in such a devastating way. I am so deeply sorry. You have my most caring support through this time of suffering. Please know that you may write anything you like, no matter how long. It is healing to write these things, and release them from your heart. In the Loss of Adult Child thread, you can read about my daughter, Jennifer, and about my search for her, her adoption, and her death by a rapist. The pain we suffer by such evil should never enter a human heart. We shouldn't feel this pain at all, because killing shouldn't be. Neither you or I will ever be the same. We are forever changed by such cruelties. I pray for two things: 1] that your heart can have comfort and peace, and that 2] you can feel the strength to rise above the crippling fear these evil people want us to feel. If you can't go out, be strong in your home. When you must go out, dress up, and walk with the grace of a lady from the Queen's palace. It may just help you manage the strength to get through the outing. Please tell me how you manage when you do go out in public. Take gentle care of yourself. Do little things you like that can nurture YOU. Please feel free to wtite, as much as you want or need. This is your time for healing, and we are here to help you, because we all care about each other here. You are in my thoughts and prayers for peace and comfort.

September 5, 2005

AlwaysmyJennifer:

I am so sorry for your suffering,,,,,,my God,,,,,,I don\\\\\\\'t know how u learned How to deal with it and absorb the pain,,,,,,,my heart goes out to you,,,,,,you know, when my husband was murdered, it was an open case,,,,and still is,,,and probably always will be......that was HOW IT WAS SET UP TO LOOK AND one of the worst things about it.....but eventually times marches on and people forget even though WE never do. My mother in law was at Dad\\\\\\\'s wake and funeral,,,and she told me she was grieving not only for my Dad but for her son, Ronni (my husband ) too,,,,she was trying to find some closure. My ONLY son is now 22 BUT WISE BEYOND HIS YEARS,,HE ENDURED THE LOSS OF HIS REAL FATHER AND THEN OF RONNI, HIS STEPFATHER, he had a 17 YR OLD girlfriend when he was 18 thaT was a lovely young girl,,,,,,her Mom was deceased WHEN SHE WAS 12, AND she took to me and called me MA ..we were very close,,,AND as a daughter she treated me, AND I HER, SINCE MY 2 DAUGHTERS WERE IN ANOTHER STATE. I LOVED HER AND IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY SON,,,,,In 2002, she was shot at gun point, CLOSE RANGE, LEFT TO DIE IN THE FETAL POSITION and dumped in the everglades in a plastic bag,,,,,BY THE GRACE OF GOD, HER BODY WAS FOUND BEFORE SHE DISAPPEARED, BUT NOT IDENTIFIED FOR A MONTH,,,,,,it was in the papers for several WEEKS AFTERWARDS,,,,she was a good girl,,,,,and it CHANGED something IN my son and again IN me,,,,,,,,,Her case was reopened RECENTLY,,,,but to no avail,,,,,,,,they will never catch whoever it was that TOOK HER LIFE .....Evil EXISTS AND IT\\\'S TOUCH IS REAL......I am sorry for rambling, but here was a lovely young 17 yr old girl WHO ONLY GAVE LOVE... and her life was cut short,,,,,and OF COURSE,,,now my dear DAD,the humblest of men, A WW II WAR HERO AND VETERAN, A MAN WHO LIVED ONLY FOR HIS FAMILY was forced to die a hard PAINFUL AND DEBILITATING death....There are so many why\\\\\\\'s.......Anyway,,,,i have not left this house in days,,,,,,,it is 2 am and I am wideawake,,,,,,I am still hiding and the only contact with the outside world is through this site right now. I thank you for listening to me,,,,,,,,,I know that I cannot afford to lose myself,,,but I feel I need to heal somehow.......and my mind is confused and hurt and asking questions there are no answers to,,,,,,,as I/ve said,,my family is in another state and I had to come back home to take care of the things that might enable me to move back home,,,,,,,,again, thank you for your kind words of advice and I wish you the peace and strength that you have given to me to make it through one more night.......I will continue to lean on this site as I see it is made up of kindred souls........L.

I apologize for not being able to give back to anyone right now,,,,but I will continue to fight for my sanity and hopefully ONE DAY.........

IT IS NOW MUCH LATER THAN WHEN I STARTED THIS: IWENT ONTO THE ADULT CHILDREN SITE AND FOUND YOUR POSTS: EVEN WITH UR CHANGE OF USER NAME......I RESPECTFULLY THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME WHEN FILLED WITH YOUR OWN UNENDING EMOTIONS TO TEND TO..........YOUR INSIGHT IS CONSOLING.

September 5, 2005

Well Boy do I have anger...

Jan.7,2004 My Brother was Killed by a hit and run driver on I-94 High-way. The guy never even stopped he just left my brother in the raod to be hit many more times... We have gone to court over this guy since April. Jury Trial was supose to start on Nov.1 but he pleaded No Contest, That Judge ONLY Sentenced him to a $12,000.00 fine and Maybe 12 months in Jail. He was up for 17 years in Prison...Where is the Justice in the Justice System. Can some one please help me to understand this. Do you think my brothers childern are going to see any of the fine money....NO it goes to the City of Ann Arbor, Mi.

Well we went to court on Dec.13,2005 the Judge gave him 12 months in jail -No Prison... He will probly not spend 9 months. I hate this man and the Justice system, it is all wrong and designed for the criminals not the victims......

I feel for all of you that your cases have not been brought to justice but the way our case went i think i would have prefered the not have caught him because of the fact the he got such a light sentence and at least we wouldn't have gone to court every month for a year. it has been so hard to greive for my brother that i am still messed up and can not get thruogh this alone. I know it may sound crazy not to want to know who killed my brother but the way the court system works there is nothing anyone can do. Once he finishes his year in JAIL he can go on with his happy little life and try to forget the pain and agony that he caused he can go on with his life while ours a left in rueins..... first comes anger then comes depression.......................

September 5, 2005

Madamystic, so much pain for one dear person to endure. Talk about the pain, the loss, anything your heart needs to talk about. I'm here to listen and help you. By trying to settle your home and affairs so you can be closer to your family, I think you are making a step in the right direction. This is not an easy process, and the only way to the other side of grief is to go through it. We need to experience its effects and aspects on us, then we can heal.

Thanks for reading my posts. My screen name was originally for the girl I believed to be my daughter, but she isn't. I love her, and am adopting her (at 31 years old). I changed the name to honor Jennifer. I never knew her, but the little I know is of a sweet, gentle and caring young lady. She's in Heaven and enjoying her wings. If you would like to write to me privately, and in depth about your grief, my email address is in the profile for Tinasdad. Feel free anytime. Mark

September 5, 2005

BarbaraGoodwin, I am so deeply sorry for your loss. The legal system is so far beyond my understanding. The police bust someone for a crime, then the judge will sentence for that 17 years, but our prisons are so overcrowded, they parole these ________ before they are anywhere near their time for release. Yes, we need more prisons, but we also need stricter punishment of the repeat offenders. My Jenni's killer was incarcerated on nine counts of rape and murder. My thoughts and prayers are with you. May you have the peace you need.

September 13, 2005

Cindylouwho2,

In answer to your question about my Mom's lack of a Memorial, here's how it went after her passing. Because of my dad's dementia, we barely got her cremated, as he wouldn't sign all the required papers - the funeral director finally convinced him, as he wasn't listening to my brother whatsoever...keep in mind, I wasn't there, as I live far away from them. There was supposedly no 'extra' money to provide anything more than the very basics for my Mother, as she'd been put under the Public Trustee's office ( Committeed to the Province's care ) because my father wouldn't cooperate in the paperwork required to get her placed in a home, nor provide her with 24-hour home care, saying there wasn't enough money for that. After the Province took over, they still hadn't found any of her more substantial accounts that would have covered proper and normal arrangements, and my dad had been in effect stealing her gov't pension cheques for his own use for all of 6 months. Again, because of my dad's dementia ( and also just his stubborn, selfish ways, only made worse by the dementia, but nothing new! ), my brother couldn't convince him, either, that he should hold an informal gathering at his house, in lieu of a paid service...so I ended up just going back to gather what he would allow me to take of her clothes. Later on, after my brother also died ( 2 months later ), my father sold their house and was liquidating the contents, all w/o any family member's knowledge. The police called my remaining brother because of things my father had been doing that involved them, and my remaining brother came in claiming he had a POA for our father and took over the rest of the liquidation, moved our father to a senior's apartment, where he never arrived, so was picked up by police (driving lost in the city) and taken to hospital where he was finally formally assessed with dementia. My brother took our Mother's ashes, along with the ashes of an aunt's that had also been being 'stored' at home, put them in a closet at his house and later refused ( by non-response to a letter to him from me ) to allow me to choose an urn for her and be reimbursed by the funds from her larger account that the Province had found and handed over to my brother, so that at least if she wasn't interred somewhere, her ashes wouldn't still be in the original cardboard box. Because my brother wouldn't talk to anyone, I can only assume my Mother's ashes remain in his closet. No relatives attempted to help me with this brother's actions, so I was stuck. Since then, he's seemingly stolen all our parents' funds ( plus any inheritance coming ), without paying for the home our father's in, so now our father has ALSO become Committeed to the Province.........but has done almost nothing to track the money my brother has hidden or used up. Without any authority to step in and seize things, my hands are quite effectively tied and short of my brother dying soon and police allowing me, as the last child, to enter his premises, I will never gain access to my Mom's ashes. And even if he finally did the right thing and interred her ( and our aunt ) somewhere, I wouldn't know about it, as he won't talk to anyone.

All I could do at the time was have a tiny service at home, by myself, as even my husband wasn't terribly interested in participating in any meaningful way. So I played some sad music, got a few pic's out of my Mom and brother ( both dead by this time ), lit candles for each of them, and cried. There was no one to share memories with, and never has been to date ( all relatives refused to call me anymore...because I DARED to shed a few tears and sound upset after my brother died, when talking to an aunt who never once said "sorry" to me, she was so busy feeling sorry for everyone else who 'lost' MY brother! I never critisized her, just said I couldn't keep talking about his death right then and had to go. ) I had a friend at the time who knew someone personally from a local hospice, who would do personalized services, even if no one else was attending, but she never offered this woman's name to me, and this friendship ended right after my brother died, so I had no one to turn to here, either.

I still feel like the paultry little thing I did was not enough, but lacked ( and still do ) the energy and creativity to come up with anything more substantial, and to do this alone, when my husband wouldn't even be a part of it or help me with it, is and was just too depressing. So I feel like my Mother's life just wasn't worthy enough in anyone else's eyes but mine, to warrant some kind of memorial. Half the people who knew my Mother, outside of family, probably never even saw her obit ( which I had to write alone, and pay for most of ) and so likely don't even know of her passing...and I don't know where they all live now. No one took care of ANYTHING though they all lived in the same city. I just couldn't BE angrier about all of it! They made a MOCKERY of her whole, long and most difficult life...the end result being that her only daughter can't find any meaning to living anymore because in the end, maybe only one, lousy person even gives a damn that you even lived.

September 18, 2005

Swede1, if there's any truth of God and the afterlife, then I believe that your mother is so terribly proud of you. From reading your post, it sounds like she had a difficult and hard life, but she has at least one thing that turned out alright--you. Your passion and commitment to family, despite everything else, are a testament that maybe her entire purpose, her reason for being, was to have you. Have you heard the saying "what goes around, comes around"? I truly believe God, our higher power, whatever you want to call it, knows and sees all, and you have nothing to worry about. Your relatives will one day have to answer for their actions--don't waste your time or energy being angry--they're not worth it. Instead, I'm hoping you can pull out your pictures of your mother and aunt and remember happier times and feel blessed that you had them in your life. Gayle

September 18, 2005

Swede1,

I am so sorry I have not dropped in here sooner to show you some of the caring and comfort you deserve as the wonderful person you are, and more, I'm sorry and feel ashamed for not doing this after all the caring and comfort you have to gently given me recently. I have been wallowing in my own pity, feeling sorry for myself, and bemoaning the impending loss of my wife. I have added to this the embitterment for the way in which my Jennifer died, so brutally by the will of a cold hearted hell bound murderer. I know vengeance isn't mine, but I hope my prayer is answered, and the fires of hell are cranked up for that S/B. I never have hated anyone in my life, except that jerk.

When this all comes down to our last, and we all must account for ourselves, it will be you standing without shame for your life. You have lived so gently, lovingly with everyone. I am so deeply sorry you have been so foully treated by your family. Family is supposed to love and take care of its own, not connive to take by defraud and default from each other, that which belongs to none anyway. I weep at the thought of such a wonderful, dear person unable to see or spend time with her Mom's remains. This is unspeakable, and you are so above this with all mankind. May the blessings of all eternity be upon you, and fall wistful about you, like flower petals in the late summer's breeze. You are a friend, one I admire and take inspiration from. I wish to send a little of the comfort to you through my spirit, and perhaps it will reach you.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Mark

September 19, 2005

Gayle and Mark,

Thank you both SO much for your ever so kind words and compassion. They made me cry, but better tears, tears of feeling accepted, and of being acceptABLE. It's always hard for me to feel in my heart that I'm worthy of someone's love and concern, and you both broke through that barrier for this moment. Growing up with a family such as mine has been emotionally tough and I'm one of those who suffer from feelings of inadequacy underneath it all, so it's always special to me to hear soft-hearted words that speak of my goodness....a goodness that wasn't often acknowledged or encouraged. And since I experienced mainly the opposite attitude after my Mom and brother died, from family, I can barely explain how your words help me feel so much less insane, as I normally don't know how to even judge my own reactions to things my family does - is it too harsh? is it too passive? I truly thank you both for the more normal perspective. My father-in-law recently said to me, "Well, welcome to the REAL world," and I had to wonder if I was being totally naive and tons of families acted like this.....again, I can't judge what's 'normal' most of the time. While I have not always acted like an angel, by any means, I do think I came through on many occasions, even though I had little guidance in what to do for others and sometimes STILL miss things out of sheer ignorance, but it really does wonders for me to hear someone say I did something, anything, from the heart. I don't get that from family.

And today was particularly hard for me again, because I had, for the third time, trusted a cousin to call me when she SWORE she would ( over this wknd. ), writing her intention in a card to me no less...and of course, she didn't call. It was not a huge thing by 'normal' standards, I suppose, but since she knows of the family troubles, I don't THINK it's unreasonable of me to feel extremely let down...again. I even made notes of things I wanted to ask her, or discuss, and then waited 3 days and evenings for her call ( after about 8 months of waiting since the last promise ), and nothing! I thought I'd finally get my chance to talk about my Mom with someone from the family, but THIS is what they do to me, each and every time. So the compassion from each of you after this grueling wait and bitter disappointment is even more precious by comparison. THANK YOU. Oh, and Gayle, you're right about at least one other thing...I WAS blessed to have my Mother and this Aunt in my life, and a couple more people from my younger years, because without them, I would have turned out to be some sort of criminal, I'm almost certain!

September 19, 2005

Swede1, I'm so moved by all you said. Our in laws, how sweet, eh? Mine had no idea what they were getting into with me. They had their hands full of the devil for about five years, until I had to take my family and run, just to save us from being killed. Seriously. After that time, everything starting settling down, and they became so dear to me. They had no idea what reactive attachment disorder was before me. They found out, and I put those sweet people through hell. My mother in law is the sweetest woman on earth, and I tell her so often. My father in law worked so hard for something of a relationship with me, but we were fighting on the same side of a war without knowing it. silly. You had to see our fights to see how stupid we looked. We've talked of losing Mary, and I fear the future, because they are so afraid to say what's on their hearts, and I don't want to lose them when I lose her. I need them more than I can ever say. My mother in law showed me what a mother is supposed to be like, and I love her. I guess I'm saying just add this to my heartache. But, I cherish them while I have them. I don't want to look too far into the future, and I have this feeling, that they'll tell me something special at the funeral, but not before. Strange what a heart does.

Take this day with grace. Look to find that little bit of good in people's eyes. This is something I learned a while back, which has helped me stop the trend. Someday, if you'd like, because I just can't post it here, I'll email you with the unbelievable thing I went through. And, yes, my friend, it happened. This will make you wonder why I can be at all optimistic in this wretched world. Hugs, Mark

September 19, 2005

Alwaysmyjennifer,

I'm glad you have a better relationship with your in-laws now. Blood is certainly NOT always thicker than water, is it? No matter how old we are, having positive parental figures in our lives is so welcome. If I may make a suggestion, since you're afraid of losing their support with the impending grief from your wife's/their daughter's loss, is there something stopping you from telling them NOW how strongly you feel about them, and why you would want them to continue being a big part of your life? If either one of them has some unresolved issues about you, or you about them, wouldn't it be better to deal with that ahead of time, rather than leaving it for when everyone is more 'focused' on grief about Mary? If someone does have a willing ear and heart, it's pretty hard to NOT respond warmly to someone else's loving and sincere expressions directed their way. Such a discourse would, of course, have to include expressing your fears as well as the more positive feelings you have about them, and as always, it would be best to stick strictly to those "I feel...." -type statements that reveal who YOU are, without any commentary about them and how they are. Seeing as you've all gone through a lot ( it sounds like ) TOGETHER, it would be MORE than a shame to have such relationships severed when you will all likely be needing as much support around you as possible.

I know you've alluded to what happened in your past before, and aren't willing to post it publicly, but I just make it a personal policy not to chat privately from sites like this, unless the site has provided a Private Message system which doesn't use email addresses, which BI hasn't as yet done. While I'm sure it would add much to my understanding of your history, and may even help me, too, I feel it's better for all concerned to do as the guidelines of most sites advise, which is to not share what one is not comfortable sharing publicly. I'm sorry we can't handle this in the way you were hoping, but my privacy has to be my first concern on the 'net. I do hope this doesn't offend you or alter our exchanges of help on this site. Hugs to you, too, Mark.

September 19, 2005

Swede1, I'm going to do something I find difficult, but for such a friend I admire so, I will post my situation for a few minutes tomorrow, at the same time you posted yours, 741, and when you reply, I'll delete it. I just don't want to see it here for too long. When you read it, you will understand why. It's gruesome. But for such a friend, you may find it beneficial to know the hell I grew up in. What a misery. No wonder I left at 13.

I want to talk to my in laws of these things, but I can't get them to open up. They love me, but their fear of her impending death stops them from such talks. They're not too open with emotions about this stuff. But we are so dearly close. I love them so much. I'm going to keep trying with them. I want them to stay close afterward. Take care of yourself. You're a true blessing to me, to so many here.

September 20, 2005

Alwaysmyjennifer,

Okay, but don't do it if it's too uncomfortable, AND, I don't know if that posted time is the same as my local time, as I think I was writing that last one quite a bit earlier than that, so if that makes a difference to you, then you may want to reconsider. ( also, what if something happens and I can't get to the boards soon enough? I don't want to be like my cousin and promise things that might not be possible! ) As for your in-laws, you could always make a quick statement about YOUR hopes, and leave it at that for now...again, you'd know best. Take good care, too...you're a mainstay for many folks on these boards!

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