Thoughts?

[BBB]

I wanted to get thoughts from the group and how you would handle. This is coming from my niece and I don't want to rock the boat so my options are to respond and risk bad feelings or let sleeping dogs lie. Input from the group on something she posted on Facebook to me....her comment is below:

Uncle, I love you. I hear you. I understand your pain. I know it's damn near impossible, let alone easier said than done, but your wife would not want you to be so sad! SHE loves you still! SHE hears your cries! SHE KNOWS your pain! Lets take those memories, HER memories, and be glad you have them. Remember her with a smile, let her warm your heart!! It is okay for you to allow yourself a glimmer of light out of these bleak times. Feeling happiness, even for a moment, is not a discredit to your loss, or to her greatness in any way. It is healing, and what she wants for you, and what ALL of us want for you! Your heart is broken. Your other half is gone. Your feelings are justified. But I am concerned that you may be stuck in "the mud" and thought you may need to hear some words of encouragement. With this, please know I am hugging you tight, and telling you it's okay!!!

[Gail 8588]

That was very sweet and clearly well intended.  I would thank her for her kind words and leave it at that.

She has no idea what you are going through, and hopefully won't for many decades. 

Just my thoughts.

Gail 

 

[BBB]

No, I appreciate the feedback Gail. I want to get others opinions on if I should say something or let it be. I was leaning towards letting sleeping dogs lie because I know she does not understand. However, I was thinking of not responding to her directly and posting a general statement because I think others will post similar things as time goes on. You know that people, over time, will expect you to get over it. 

[DMB]

OK, you asked so here goes:

BBB are you taking offense to that beautifully written post?  She clearly cares for your well being.  She even writes that your feelings are justified.  She is reaching out to encourage you, it is not that she is trying to understand.  How would she?  Is it fair that we feel our family and friends should understand?  I think not.

I realize I am a stranger on the internet, and you can certainly take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.  You previously posted about seeing a therapist who told you that you weren't accepting of your dear wife's death.  After reading this, I think he/she is correct.  I don't know how to help you with that.  Only you can do that.  I suggest you print that post out and maybe hang it around the house and keep reading it.  I also agree with Gail, a simple thank you reply is all that's needed here until you're ready.  I don't think it is wise to try and make others understand your grief.  It is just my opinion that's what you are asking for and that is an expectation that is just not ever going to come.

[ccoflove]

Yeah it's super irritating when people who dont know this grief tell us how to grieve or a time frame for it. I wouldnt wish grief and the full understanding that comes by experience on my worst enemy but yet it is a universal human experience we all one day face if we have love ones. The message is well intended encouragement and comes from caring about you, so I wouldnt take offense to it just thank her and let it go. This is the place for the people who truely understand.

[Maria_PI]

I would let sleeping dogs lie, just wouldn’t respond. Let them sweat it and try to figure out why I didn’t respond. That’s what I did with a friend who tried to tell me how I should feel or do, “because she cares about me”, not. I think people who do that are simply irritated that they have to deal with you being miserable and it this disrupts their “happy blissful life”. It also depends on your relationship with your niece but I find it offensive for others to tell me what to do and how to grieve. Just being there and listening would help much better than giving advice on something one has never gone through or knows anything about. I figure that’s why most psychologists just listen and let you vent. But that’s just me...


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[KayC]

3 hours ago, BBB said:

your wife would not want you to be so sad!

Of course she wouldn't!  BUT, like all easily given cliches, regardless of intent or meaning, they DO not and CANNOT "understand" what we go through as they have not gone through it!  I probably would not respond as she means well.  But our spouses, although they would not wish us sad, would be the FIRST to understand what we're going through and how hard this is!   The only thing redeeming I could find in this is that at least my George was spared this, because it's ME going through it and not him!

If you had years under your belt and had made no progress, I would definitely suggest a good grief counselor (I do anyway for all of us who will) but beyond that, I don't think people that have not been there can really understand what we're going through.

DMB, of COURSE BBB is taking offense!  It's not in order.  Sorry, you spoke your mind, I'm speaking mine...and not mine only, I've read things like this for 15 1/2 years and others find it offensive also.

http://www.griefspeaks.com/id9.html
https://onlineministries.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/Grief/avoid-cliches.html
It's important to VALIDATE one's grief, not try to talk them down from how they're feeling.  NONE of us "want to feel sad!"  We let our feelings run their course, experience them, little by little learning & progressing but this is something that takes a LONG TIME and will be a different timetable for everyone, we're all unique in not only who we are but so are our relationships and also how we adjust/cope.

[DMB]

That's OK @ KayC.  I get it.  If I was having a bad day I probably would have had a different response.  I wouldn't want to see BBB alienate himself from family or friends in making some other response other than thank you.  Or just leaving it be.

[LMR]

BBB. Please do not ignore her. Just thank her for caring. She wants to help, she doesn't know what else to do. She doesn't mean to offend you. Is your niece very young?

I have a young friend who liked to spend time with us. He is very supportive in a practical way but he has been alive less than half the time we spent together. I have told him this and I believe he understands that he is a long way from "getting it" but he wants to help me feel better and sometimes I have to let him try even if it is exhausting for me.

[Diane R. E.]

For ME, it would depend on how she posted it. If she posted it on your Facebook page where everyone you are friends with on FB, I don't find it appropriate because it will probably get many "Likes" and others may post similar responses, which I couldn't tolerate. However, if she sent it as a private message via FB, I would thank her for her well-meaning intent. If she posted it for all to see, I personally would call her or message her to let her know that you understand her intent meant well, but ask her to keep your grief journey between the two of you. That's just my 2 cents.

[Yoli]

Maybe thank her for TRYING to understand your pain.

I hope, like Diane, that it was a private message otherwise it could embolden others to share THEIR views on YOUR grief.

I don't know why it is always the people who have not gone through this that are always the first to dish out advice.

[Meloncholy]

I wanted to get thoughts from the group and how you would handle. This is coming from my niece and I don't want to rock the boat so my options are to respond and risk bad feelings or let sleeping dogs lie. Input from the group on something she posted on Facebook to me....her comment is below:
Uncle, I love you. I hear you. I understand your pain. I know it's damn near impossible, let alone easier said than done, but your wife would not want you to be so sad! SHE loves you still! SHE hears your cries! SHE KNOWS your pain! Lets take those memories, HER memories, and be glad you have them. Remember her with a smile, let her warm your heart!! It is okay for you to allow yourself a glimmer of light out of these bleak times. Feeling happiness, even for a moment, is not a discredit to your loss, or to her greatness in any way. It is healing, and what she wants for you, and what ALL of us want for you! Your heart is broken. Your other half is gone. Your feelings are justified. But I am concerned that you may be stuck in "the mud" and thought you may need to hear some words of encouragement. With this, please know I am hugging you tight, and telling you it's okay!!!

I think she meant well and obviously loves you very much. As the others said, if it was a private message just say thanks. If it was posted on FB where others could respond, I would tell her your grief journey is a very private thing that you care to share with people who genuinely care.


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[Sparky1]

I wouldn't reply, just say thanks and let it go. When my stepdaughter came over for Christmas, we talked about her mom's passing and how lonely and alone I was since no one stayed with me. She said ' I get it '   It did irritate me a bit because after all it was her mother and my wife. I don't know what she meant, I didn't want to stir things up.  She has probably accepted it better than I have, who knows. It seems like that to me. I know for sure my grieving and sorrow is way more intense than hers. She has a future, my future is bleak being all alone.

[foreverhis]

BBB, Obviously she loves you and cares about you.  However, I would talk to her privately for a number of reasons.  The first actually is all about her because some day she will probably write or say something similar to someone else and they will go off on her.  In her naivety and (IMO) not thinking it through. she uses several of the most hurtful cliches.  The second is for your benefit because it's something she posted on FB and will be seen by others, who might chime in with even more of the painful cliches.  Our grief is so uncomfortable for others that they often want to push us to "get over it" (as if that will ever happen), "be happy" (yeah, sure with our one essential love missing), and "be normal" again (hate that word now; it really doesn't apply anymore).  As we know, people often mean well in trying to comfort us, but they don't have a clue.  How can they?

I would start by saying the positive, that you can tell how much she loves you and cares about you, and so forth.  From there, I would pivot to "I know you mean well and are trying to help, but when you say these things [you choose the specifics], it is actually very painful for me."  Then I'd explain why and talk about how this loss and grief can only be understood when experienced, and that you don't want her to have to understand that way.

I would not simply let it go because for me, the hurt and frustration would fester.  Then (knowing myself as I do), some time I'd lash out and that wouldn't really be good for anyone.

Anyway, just my opinion of course.

[Meloncholy]

I wouldn't reply, just say thanks and let it go. When my stepdaughter came over for Christmas, we talked about her mom's passing and how lonely and alone I was since no one stayed with me. She said ' I get it '   It did irritate me a bit because after all it was her mother and my wife. I don't know what she meant, I didn't want to stir things up.  She has probably accepted it better than I have, who knows. It seems like that to me. I know for sure my grieving and sorrow is way more intense than hers. She has a future, my future is bleak being all alone.

Yes the kids seem to accept the loss in a quicker time frame because they have exciting times ahead. As to us, we see a lonely, dark future right now:(


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[foreverhis]

16 minutes ago, Sparky1 said:

She said ' I get it '  

I had a similar thing with our daughter in the first months after her adored dad died.  I let her talk and cry and whatever she needed with no interjections and no platitudes because her grief is hers alone, as a daughter who was lucky enough to have the kind of dad most of us wish we'd had.  But then when I'd try to express how I was feeling and what was going on with me, she'd grow impatient or say, "I'm grieving too."

Well, one day enough was enough and I simply couldn't handle it.  So I told her that if she couldn't or wouldn't simply listen to me, then I was going to have to hang up the phone and stop talking just then.  I didn't yell or get angry.  I would never have simply hung up on her or slammed down the phone, but I was too upset to continue the conversation.  That shocked her into silence.  She quietly begged me not to hang up and said she would listen.  That was a real turning point in our dialogue about the grief and pain we each were feeling.

Later she said, Mom, I'm missing my dad and it really hurts, but you've lost everything and are missing half your life.  I'm sorry I hadn't understood that.  Things weren't "perfect" after that because we're humans and make mistakes sometimes, but we were able to communicate about losing him in a way we hadn't before.

[Sparky1]

1 hour ago, foreverhis said:

you've lost everything and are missing half your life.

That's what I told my wife's sister. I know you have your grief, your mom has her grief of losing her daughter, but my grief is overwhelming. I lost my other half and right now I'm only half a person. I am not complete anymore. My wife was everything to me. We were one. She didn't argue with me on that.....

[BBB]

I appreciate everyone's responses. Everyone here gets it.

[LoveNeverDies]

BBB,

How old is your niece? I think she meant well , but she really doesn’t understand how devastating it is to lose someone you loved so much. I would just let it go..

[BBB]

She is young, she is 26

[SharedLife]

I'm in agreement with all those who said she loves you and cares about you.
She doesn't "get" it -- nobody does until they lose a loved partner.
If it were me, I'd simply thank her for her thoughts. Just that: Thank you.

[widower2]

13 hours ago, Gail 8588 said:

That was very sweet and clearly well intended.  I would thank her for her kind words and leave it at that.

She has no idea what you are going through, and hopefully won't for many decades. 

Just my thoughts.

Gail 

 

And good ones. Exactly.  As I've said before, IMO one should focus on the intent. Said out of kindness and caring. What I'd have given for such a response from someone at the time, naive though it is.

[widower2]

  

3 hours ago, foreverhis said:

I had a similar thing with our daughter in the first months after her adored dad died.  I let her talk and cry and whatever she needed with no interjections and no platitudes because her grief is hers alone, as a daughter who was lucky enough to have the kind of dad most of us wish we'd had.  But then when I'd try to express how I was feeling and what was going on with me, she'd grow impatient or say, "I'm grieving too."

Well, one day enough was enough and I simply couldn't handle it.  So I told her that if she couldn't or wouldn't simply listen to me, then I was going to have to hang up the phone and stop talking just then.  I didn't yell or get angry.  I would never have simply hung up on her or slammed down the phone, but I was too upset to continue the conversation.  That shocked her into silence.  She quietly begged me not to hang up and said she would listen.  That was a real turning point in our dialogue about the grief and pain we each were feeling.

Later she said, Mom, I'm missing my dad and it really hurts, but you've lost everything and are missing half your life.  I'm sorry I hadn't understood that.  Things weren't "perfect" after that because we're humans and make mistakes sometimes, but we were able to communicate about losing him in a way we hadn't before.

This is a fantastic story; I'm so glad you laid it on the line and she realized the error of her ways. And it's one that a LOT of people could learn a lesson from, although of course it depends on the circumstances.... I'm not suggesting slamming people every time ay something we don't like, such as the ignorant platitudes and cliches that are so common at a time like this. But sometimes the best course of action isn't to let things or let people slide; sometimes it's merited, even necessary, to be candid and basically throw water in their face when it's clearly needed (tactfully as possible of course, as you did so well). Call it "tough love" or whatever but (spoiler alert, mini soapbox rant next) this is largely what is wrong with our society today, esp with parents...they think it's all about "being nice" and coddling/walking on eggshells with everyone. It makes me almost literally physically ill.  As important as it is to be kind, being honest and yanking people back in line when they step out of line is just as important. It's obviously true for parenting kids (at least it's obvious to anyone with a functioning brain), but can be just as true between adults as well.  

That all said, again, sometimes it's best to just say "thanks" and let it go. IMO the example above was not one of them.   But the example that started this thread was.

 

[foreverhis]

2 hours ago, BBB said:

She is young, she is 26

This is actually one reason I would talk to her about it kindly and gently.  Here's why:  All of us here know that our society sucks at acknowledging death and grieving.  We are not taught about the enormity of it or that we can't fully understand how it affects someone else or that someday we will be the one in every sort of crushing pain.

A friend of mine and I were discussing this a while back.  We have both experienced deep loss in our middle years.  We are certain that at some point along the way we probably said something intending to be kind, but that hurt the person we were trying to comfort.  Not just because we hadn't experienced such losses ourselves, though that is of course a big part of it, but because we were never taught anything about grief at all. 

Sure, there were the "your grandma/grandpa died" experiences, but what we saw were adults grieving at the funeral and then putting on the damn "brave face" in front of the kids.  So what did we learn from that?  We learned that grief is supposed to be a finite emotion that is best left behind after the funeral.  We learned that being stoic and strong is the proper way to behave.  We learned that death = older people. 

What we did NOT learn is true compassion or how to respond to someone in such extreme pain or that sometimes the best thing to say is a simple, "I'm so very sorry."

[foreverhis]

1 hour ago, widower2 said:

This is a fantastic story; I'm so glad you laid it on the line and she realized the error of her ways.

One thing I clicked into in listening to her was that she was so mired in her own grief and in trying to help our then 10 year old granddaughter understand losing her adored and adoring grandpa that she couldn't fully see or hear me.  And I bear some of the responsibility for that.  While he was fighting his cancer, I was his strength and caregiver.  I've always been a family caretaker and peacemaker, so naturally I wanted to "be strong" for our girls right after he died.  I've always had a hard time crying in front of other people, even John, so that's also on me.

It was when I realized I had begun to resent being the strong one, the listener, etc. with losing him that I knew I had to confront the situation.  I suppose it went as well as it did because we usually communicate with each other well and because I did not blame or make it an angry conversation.  But really I had to get across my feeling that while I would never diminish or ignore her grief and pain, she needed to understand that losing a wonderful father was not on the same scale as losing my soulmate.  In truth, the thought I had before I stopped her and said what I did was "Why isn't this all about me???"  Bing!  A light bulb lit up with, " Sometimes it should be all about your grief, but don't you think you need to say so?"

[KayC]

14 hours ago, BBB said:

She is young, she is 26

That explains a lot.  I know you'll take it in the light it was given, but still I think it was inappropriate for her to say.  I probably wouldn't respond but who knows until they're there.  Something additional you didn't need, I know.

[ccoflove]

After thinking more about this, maybe the polite thank you response is what perpetuates societies lack of understanding of grief. You may not know it til experienced but it will occur again in some form and it may be helpful to know that cliches and rushing grievers feelings along is more hurtful than helpful. If you can explain this in a loving way it may be best to communicate it. It's all personal choice, if it will fester and bother you than maybe it's best to get it off your chest. The thing is, even after my own experience I still find it hard to find the right words to comfort others because at the end of the day words cant fix anything, it is a solitary journey that takes a long time to move through. 

[LoveNeverDies]

On 12/30/2020 at 8:13 AM, BBB said:

Feeling happiness, even for a moment, is not a discredit to your loss, or to her greatness in any way. It is healing, and what she wants for you, and what ALL of us want for you! Your heart is broken.

It’s almost like people think there’s some kind of switch we can turn on and off to make us happy. Sadness, emptiness and grief isn’t something we choose. Maybe you should send her a book on what to say and what not to say to someone who is grieving, so she doesn’t make the same mistake in the future.

[foreverhis]

I guess it doesn't help my personal reaction to what she wrote that she used some of the phrases and thoughts that peeve me off the most.  "I understand your feelings/pain" (no, you don't), "It's what he would want for you" (you have no idea what he would want, other than to be here with me) and "Your feelings are justified" (sarcastic voice, "Oh thank you sooo much for allowing me to feel the way I do") make me want to let my angry self punch someone in the nose.

Still, I would address is kindly and gently for the reasons I mentioned before.  I wouldn't "blame" her for not knowing how hurtful and rude she was because most of us aren't taught any better.

[DSA]

Several years ago my best friend nursed her husband as he died from lung cancer. I knew she was having a really rough time but because she lived so far away I was limited in what I could do. As my husband was clearly dying last summer I thought back and realized I really didn’t “know” what she was going through. I called her up and told her so. 
After her husband died, again I thought I knew what she was feeling. I didn’t. I couldn’t. When my husband died last July, again I called my friend and told her that I now knew what she was really going through. Unless you wear the shoe, you can’t know what it feels like.