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Grief and the Court System


avc2003

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Lynda - thanks for the information. It sounds as though my lawyers are right on track then. I don't know your back ground, as I have not gone to all the threads but you sound like a wonderful person and hope peace for you as well.

Thank you,Denise

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Denise, my 27 y/o daughter died 10/13/03 in a one car crash. I think because I am a secretary to an attorney I look at the court system thread a lot. It is a very difficult time for everyone. We had to probate Julie's assets without a will in order to close some accounts and be the beneficiaries. She had just started working and really did not have much. May we all find peace, Lynda

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Gee Denise, you have got a mess on your hands, and a very frustrating one at that. I guess, the only thing I can think of to tell you to do is all the other families together and speak as ONE voice, more power in numbers, and all that good stuff. On wanting to quit, I can relate to that one too. We were pretty much told that if we pulled out now, this was about three weeks ago to a month, we would be billed for everything, and the attorney felt as though we were about 40 to 50 thousand into it....so much fun to hear that one...but then there is always that voice that demands justice, vengence...whatever it maybe and we pull ourselves back together and back into fight mode. I jst want the doctor to think and read all charts, no pregnancy is alike...if I could get that out of all this...I would be relieved, because I will never have my Will back...physically. I say stand as strong as you have been and just keep going, even though it is horrible, but I do know that your daughter is and would be proud of you and your husband for trying to right a wrong, and that her parents loved her tremendously....Your are good Mom, Denise. Hang tough...and stay in touch!! WillsMom~~Allyson

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Julsmom: How nice…or maybe not, to see this battle we are in from a very different perspective. There are times that I wish I had a better knowledge of the steps the law needs to take to come to a conclusion of a case. If I can “divorce” myself from our case, I find things that they do very interesting. Almost a ‘morbid curiosity’ about the steps that are taken. I am sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter as I know that it rips us up inside and changes our whole outlook on life and what we expected for our futures.

Allyson: How accurate you are when you say that we all need to right a wrong. The problem I see is that there are so many wrongs and when all is said and done, doctors will still be making mistakes and taking lives, and the RR will still be killing innocent people with the speed and sloppy crossings that they have.

Obviously, after losing one of our own, in the ways that we have lost them, we become more conscious of the malpractice or RR accidents that happen daily. All of a sudden you start hearing it every day on the news and you realize that this is not isolated to just “me”. With so many of these needless deaths you would think that stricter regulations would be a must. My hopes are that when this case is done I will have the energy to pursue the legal channels to make a safer roadway and RR crossing across America.

My thoughts are with all.

Denise

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Hi to all,

I wanted to write since I have been following the posts on here for awhile. In case you don't know about my son, Josh, he died on May 31, 2004 after being given 3, 10ml pills from a kid, and they turned out to be the kid's Mother's perscription Methedone. She took them for back pain, and also sold them for money. Anway, Josh was only 16, and I don't believe that he knew that these pills were dangerous. Not that he did drugs, he didn't even smoke cigaretts, but for some reason that night, he was talked into taking these and during the night while he slept, he had a massive siezure and died.

Anyway, we are also facing the court system. The kid was moved into Adult Court and charged with 1st degree Reckless Homocide and 2 counts of distributing a narcatic perscription. His Mother also was charged with 3 counts of distributing, but she couldn't be charged with anything involving our son's death....her son took full blame and said she wasn't aware that he had stolen the pills. On August 39, 2005, which just happened to be the day our son, Josh, would have turned 18, we got word that the Mother overdosed on pills the Saturday before!

Now we wait and see what happens to the case with this kid. The DA is hoping to be able get him and his appointed lawyer to plead guilty and take a plea bargian and lesser charges. Right now we have a jury trial scheduled for October 25th and 26th, but that's already been reschduled once, so who knows what will happen until the morning of!

It has been a nightmare and a rollercoaster ride for our entire family! My husband, myself and our surviving son, Eric, who turns 21 today, are all subpenoed to testify at the trial. I do not really understand why, and I am desperatly afraid to have to get up in front of a courtroom and have to try and composs myself. Although losing the Mother and all that entails, has made it alittle easier to think about.

I don't feel any compassion for this kid, since what happened to Josh, he has again been caught with Methedone and is still out on signiture bond! Which I don't understand either!

He has never shown any remorse or even tried to tell us he was sorry! It's been almost a year and a half now and we still have no closure with this!

I just wanted to write, even though out situations are different, I still feel a connection with you all!

I wish you luck and strength!!!

Josh's Mom

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josh's mom - I have been following your story on the other sites as well. I just get so angry for you and Josh. I hope everything goes well for you. It sounds as though the date is closing in...which must be a bit of relief and a huge scare also. I would assume that they are going to subpena (sp) you so that you can testify to Josh's charactor. I can't image that part of it as being too difficult as you were very proud of Josh and know him better than any. good luck to you.

denise

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RibitsMom,

I really appreciate your understanding!!! it's means more to me than you know!

I miss Josh so much and Summer and Fall are hard for me! I can't stand this time of year when the winter is looming! I get so down and feel so alone!

I just wish we could got through all this court stuff and in the end, get our kids back!

That's really what we all want, not any other justice will be good enough!

I just miss my son!

I miss being his Mom!

I miss being needed!

Why are we being put through this??

Sorry, I'm just really sad today, just got back from visiting the cemetary, I thought maybe it would help, I don't know why, it never did before, but I just feel more empty!

Thanks for letting me say what I feel, I have to get it out or it will bother me worse and worse!

Hugs to you!

Josh's Mom Forever!

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Josh's mom, I think we all understand this time of year bringing us down...or should I say: taking us out at the knee's. The days are shorter, the weather is gloomier, and where I live (minnesota) so much colder that it is bound to depress anyone anyway. But for all of us that are sitting on the edge of depression (or maybe fallen over the edge)it seems worse. For me, I lost my daughter in the month of Sept and her birthday is in Nov...so it is really not a fun season.

One of the things I found helpful, and some may laugh and think, how frivolous, but get a membership to a tanning booth...even if you aren't trying to get a tan...the extra feel of sun just seems to be uplifting. Sounds crazy, right? It does help me, though.

My thoughts are with you and a hug right back.

Denise

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RibitsMom,

We live in Wisconsin, so I guess we know all about the winters!!!

That is a great idea, my friend actually has a tanning business at her home and I have gone a few times in the winter and it really does help the "gloomies"!

I haven't really thought about going, but now that you've brought it up, it's a really good idea! Anything to help those feeling stop, even for 10 minutes!

Thanks for everything!

Josh's Mom!!

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Joshsmom, You have alot going on right now. And it is a great idea to get extra "sun" by any means necessary. There was an article in our paper recently explaining how sunlight actually releases endorphines to make us feel better, even while tanning. There must be something to it.

I wish you the best of luck during the upcoming trial. Hang in there, you're doing what's right by Josh.

Tylersmom, I hope you get a small sense of release when you get a chance to say what you feel to the boy responsible and his family allowing him to continue to drink and drive. I'm sure it won't be nearly enough after what you have dealt with.

Do you still work with that boys mother? If so, you are a person of great strength and composure. That in itself would drive me insane. I was working on our business' account that dealt with medical group who was responsible for misdiagnosing Kristian. I had to stop. I would get so angry. I tried to be neutral.

The purchasing agent for the medical group was such a wasteful jerk. She was who I had to deal with. There were so many times I wanted to stop her dead in her tracks and tell her who she was dealing with. All the 100's of dollars a month for over a year they literally threw away, in the garbage, I added up all the catscans, bloodtests and specialist visits Kristian should have been provided with and was not. Money that should have gone to something much more useful than what it went to. Which truly and literally was, the garbage. Makes me wonder how much money could be saved in misdiagnosis and insurance claims and lawsuits if competent people would be placed in the respective jobs from bottom to top. I'm not a snob...But for the love of whatever great and mighty power of being above us all that allows these senseless things to happen...I'm not asking all that much.

I saved the documentation for my lawyers. As yet more proof of the reasons the entire lot of them should be shut down, condemned and exiled from being anywhere close to dealing with patients. The unsuspecting public. This medical group has been sued 3 other times in the past few years. I am not the only one who has gone after them for their ignorance.

I truly hope to win this case for Kristian. To restore some of the dignity she was robbed of being dismissed as having migrianes and behavioral and control issues while she was actually being eaten alive by cancer during those 2 years was starving herself through no fault of her own, becoming more and more ill, and losing her vision completely. She did not deserve that. That was the ignorance we dealt with. The cancer was quite another matter.

Thank you everyone for being so supportive and listening.

Take care and stay strong!

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Chels1003,

I am so sorry that the medical community failed your daughter.It should not be like that.I cannot understand them overlooking her symptoms like that.You are right in bringing this lawsuit as it may not bring Kristian back but if changes can be made and this nightmare world that we live in can be prevented from happening to another child and parent than we need to do all we can to stop it.

We just had another court appearance Monday.The judicial system is not kind to bereaved parents.The boy responsible for my son and his friend's death changed his plea to accept charges however the lawyer wanted it made clear that he really wasn't accepting charges but to save the State money from a jury trial he would accept charges.Mighty noble of him to do so.He still contends that he wasn't speeding and that the top highway patrol investigater was wrong in his estimation of speed by some 30mph.It made me crazy.All we want is for him to aknowledge his error and show remorse but he is only doing what his mother directs him to do.Yes unfortunately I still work with his mother.She does not understand why I am so angry as her son did nothing wrong , she won't accept the fact that her son is responsible for 2 deaths but expects me to accept my son's death? Get real!This has been such a nightmare from the beginning.You see I was working the ER that night.I worked on my son's friend trying to save his life.I did not know right away that their was a fatality at the scene.I thought there was only 3 victims.However once I knew who I was trying to save I began to cry and a terrible sense of terror came over me and it wasn't long before I knew the awful truth.THis mother shows no understanding for the hell we live.Tyler had 2 little sisters who write him notes all the time,cry at the cemetary and have nightmares and the mother of this boy thinks I shouldn't be angry? My other son is actually in the same class with the driver responsible for his brother's death which is also a nightmare for him of juggling class schedules and locker assignments to get away from listening to the punk.We go back to court in October when hopefully he will lose his license( he has been driving since the accident) and maybe when he hears what he has done to these 2 families he will feel true remorse.

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Tylersmom,

I do not believe for a second that the lawyer accepted the charges to merely save the state money. The lawyer did not accept anything. The boy and his family did. Don't ever forget that. It's just too bad you could not make the choice whether the case for your son goes to trial. It should be yours. If this boy truly felt he were wrongly accused, neither he or his family would allow a plea to a lesser charge.

Yet whether you want to acknolwedge or not, that family is going through their own private hell. You'll never see it first hand.

One week after Kristian left us, my neighbors fiance was at a bar, had far more many drinks than he will admit to. On his way home he struck a 16 year old boy ridiing his bike. He stopped, saw what he had done, and left that boy there. That child died the next morning in the hospital after being found 2 hours later by the next passer by. He could have saved that childs life. He was more afraid of a dui charge instead. Selfish. At first he told police he thought he had hit a deer. In NYS, even if you hit a deer, you HAVE to report it. My neighbor was so in love with this jackass, she kept trying to cry on my shoulder over it. Every day for months. We did see him before his trial, he admitted he stopped and knew what he had done. He admitted as much in court and only got 8 years. My neighbor went down the tubes drowning her sorrows in obvious stages.

Soon after, she began dating a crack addicted parolee who stole all of Kristians pain medications from my basement where I had stored them after her death.

I had her evicted. It felt good. I could not stand the sight of her.

And that daughter of the driver, she had to change schools. She was harrassed and bullied, and it was not her fault. She was only 12 at the time. She could not drink or drive, she did not even live with her father. And her life will never be the same either. It wouldn't mean nearly as much to me had she not been in my house and played with my own children. Even Kristian.

Kristian was wise beyond her age. She knew how angry I was. She'd always tell me her cancer was no one's fault. No one knew this was going to happen. She went through months of hell and blamed no one. And never once felt sorry for herself. Not one little bit. I try not to ever forget that. It was her life, she was entitled more than anyone, especially me to feel that way. She chose not to. It is hard to respect her wisdom, her strength, her courage when I get so wrapped up in trying to find the accountability she is due. At the lack of simple respect for her own well being these doctors all treated her with for so long.

I wish your son did not have to feel like he had to avoid that other child at school. It must be so hard for him. He is going through so much. If he feels harrassed and threatened in anyway, I pray the school jumps in full force behind you to do something about it.

I think it's good that your 2 little girls can express their some of their feelings to Tyler in letters. I hope Tylers brother is able to do something like that in his own way as well. My son is only 10 and he holds it all in. It comes out at night when he wakes up with horrible dreams, night terrors. We went a while without any, yet they are starting back up...last night, he woke up walked into the living room holding himself crying that he was going to die. We are coming up on Kristian's birthday and Angel date.

I know I have been long and drawn out but please hear this as well. I just went to my daughters third grade open house at school. Her teacher spent well over an hour explaining that our children may only be in third grade, but they should never, ever be able to use the excuse, well I didn't know, if they miss an assignment. Or they if don't do well on a quiz or test. That they are old and wise enough to ask for help if they don't understand what is expected of them. This is expected from a group of 8 year old children.

And we lower our standards for the legal system. This is our America. Love it or leave it.

It will never be easy for any of us here.

Stay strong.

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Hello to all, have not visited here for a while. Have been reading all who struggle with the legal system.My beautiful boy Rien was taken 3 yrs today and I am still trying to get answers. I often think I should move on,people say you can't change what happened, but they don't realise it's not about changing the outcome for my boy, my god I'm not that naive. People don't understand it's about accountability. They also say the person responsible for my boys death has to live with it every day, wow! I think that he is privledged, he gets to live. My ex-husband was the driver and he just drove off the freeway, eye witnesses say the truck was wobbling violently prior to him leaving the road, the cops don't want to know me. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist. I can see in peoples eyes that when I bring it up it's like Oh my god is she still on that! I find it so confusing, as some days I think " yep just let it go" then other days i think no keep pushing the issue. I struggle to work out exactly what I should do, it is a very lonely journey, a one woman crusade.

Love and Light to all who visit here. Judi

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Judi: Could you give us more detail about the accident...was your Ex drinking? Driving carelessly? Doing illegal things? Have you hired lawyer? Were no charges filed against your EX? Is this something you can look into by consulting a lawyer?

As for what you see in other peoples eyes...you can tell them all to go to ****. What do they know? You have every right to discuss your son and the tragic way he was taken from you and the unfairness of it all.

Denise

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Hi Denise,

My ex was under the influence of cannabis, but not a high enough level to impair his driving! He also has a tumor at the base of his brain, meant to be taking heavy duty medication for it! Also has grossly elevated blood pressure, medication for that too! The side effects of the tumor are blackouts, temper outbursts, severe headaches. my boys girlfriend told me the ex told her not to tell anyone about his condition as he was not meant to be driving. Told the cops this and they told me they could not ask her for a statement as they may be accused of harrassment! An eyewitness to the accident said he veered out of his lane, corrected, then the truck started wobbling violently from side to side, then left the lane,into the next lane and mounted a concrete barrier before colliding with 3 concrete bridge pylons, my boy taking the full impact. My ex didn't even have to stay overnight in the hospital. This is only a small part of it all, there are so many alarm bells going off in my head. I am so angry, starting to believe that you can just drive off the road, kill someone and get away with it.So many people percieve me as not being able to let go, I'm starting to question myself. Every one says to me "you know it won't change the outcome" Hell, I am not that stupid, I know without any doubt nothing can give my boy back. The desire to scream at these people is overwhelming. Sometimes I think just walk away from it all, as I am becoming so very tired. Thanks for listening. Love & light to you Judi

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Judy, our grief at times just won't let us move forward as people would like us to, it just isn't possible. We can only do and feel so much and the emotion we feel, the anger, is so overwhelming. In your case someone else was involved and the conditions of the accident would make any normal person feel the same way, no one here can blame you for that. The problem always lies with others that don't know what we are going through and the aftermath of something like this happening.

It is hard to understand, even harder to find it in our hearts to feel anything but anger.

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Judi...is there anyway to have your son's girlfriend voluntarily go to the police to offer this information...that wouldn't be harassment. Just a thought.

Denise

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hi Denise & Kirksdad, Firstly thankyou from the bottom of my heart for your thoughts. The girlfriend is too scared. Woried about repercussions from the ex. Must say I understand, as I too am terrified of him. His potential for payback is scary, he was not all that stable before the accident, can't imagine how he is now. Our other son feels the same way, the ex and his family have not spoken to either of us since 2 months after the accident, I attribute this to the fact that I dared to ask uncomfortable questions. Rien was working & earning good money, the ex cleaned out his bank account, even took money out the day of Riens funeral, by the time I realised what he had done it was too late.Someone said to me just let it go as he has to live with what he did, again the hard part - he gets to live, I see that as a privledge. Somedays I wish with all my being that I could forgive him, just don't know how. I think how do you let go of something like this and I try so hard to move past it and live life to make Rien proud. I sometimes imagine what Rien would say to me if he could even that doesn't help. My ex told me a few years ago that one day he would take my boy from me and when he did it would break my heart. Thanks again for listening. I feel like a real whinger. Love and Healing Light to all who come here.

Judi

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Thankyou to all of you. It gives comfort to know that others survive this pain. I wish each of you peace from within your hearts and souls. Know that your children that have passed over,watch over and look at you with pride, they know that you are helping others.

Love and light to you all

Judi

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To All: Deposition of my OB is on Nov. 22, and I was wondering, if anyone knew how long this process takes and how close I am to getting this over with...something I regret starting, it is getting very scary, and very real...Help? Advice? WillsMom

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Willsmom: I am assuming that the depo of the OB will not be the only depo needed. We just started depo in Aug-Sept time frame (don't remember exact date) but they are shooting for mediation to be in May...if that doesn't work then court in October of 2006. So, my point is that it could take some time. If you ask your lawyer, he/she should be able to give you tenetive (spelling is awful, sorry) dates. Prior to depo on our end, we had a court date set for Feb. of 2006, they know that they will not make that date, but they assume that all the discoveries will be completed by then, which is what allowed them to set the May date for mediation/Oct for trial.

As the parent of the child that the suit is in process for, I don't want to settle for mediation...I want a full-blown trial, I want the R/R to lose and I want it public knowledge. The lawyers say that I really don't want that to happen because if it goes to court you can add years on to this because then they will file appeals and drag it on so long that it will never be over.

Denise

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OH Denise...How disheartening....You are very strong to keep plowing ahead...I admire your ability to stay so head-strong...I agree, with the trial aspect of it, on both of our ends.....Give us 12 Americans and we will walk away with some feeling of righting the wrong, we both have suffered. Please, if you can stand it, help me with this process...Have you been deposed?? A friend of mine is having Wills' medical records reviewed for free by a cardiologist...I just received a confirmation from my attorney in Fla. that they would be copied and sent and I will send them to her.....I am scared of that, because, if happened what I think happened, I am in for hell....I hate to be so vengeful, but I feel everyone should answer...not just one person/office. Thank-you for your help and kindness. I am scared to death, I have no idea what to expect...and actually dread the 22nd of Nov.---Can you believe there is a part of me that feels sorry for this woman??? She was like my friend, I trusted her so...Anyway, thank-you and let's keep in touch! Allyson

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Denise, I am on your side for a trial with no mediation. That's what I want for my daughter also. I'm not sure exactly how you feel about how long this court case may take, but correct me if I'm wrong in saying time is the least of your worries at this point. It's how I feel for our situation anyhow. I spoke to my lawyer recently and our deposition is March 1rst, 2006. He reminded me this is not going to be easy. I am painfully aware. Also that he has no problems with the doctor and medical group sweating out dates, times, however long this make take. Considering what our family has gone through due to their negligence, there's no reason they should not have to worry for years over this,if that is what it takes to see this through.

Allyson, Hang in there. It's going to be very hard emotionally. I go back and forth getting sick from rage, frustration and fear. Not to mention everything that goes with having to re-live what happened over and over. For me I know I will not be able to move on or find closure until I follow this through. Even if I don't get what I feel is owed for what Kristian endured, which is accountability. Admitting they were wrong, I will move on from that point forward, knowing I fought for what my little girl was robbed of. Her life. Or at the very least a fighting chance to beat the cancer that took her from us. This doctor also tried to be personable with me. He said his son had migriane headaches and believed Kristian did as well. She had headaches to be sure. She had a brain tumor. It took her life.

Taking this doctor to court is much more civil and polite than what he truly deserves. Which is 2 years of isolation, losing he friends, being starved every day, and enduring endless physical pain and having me tell him, each and anytime he finds cause to complain, that he's not in pain or hungry. That perhaps he should talk about things that are "going on in his home life", maybe get some counciling and figure out where his "emotional, behavioral, acting out and control issues" stem from. Or in fact, that if he were so suddenly not to be able to see, the satisfaction in telling him, that he gets around well enough to suggest he sees just fine. That is what he and his medical group did to my precious baby girl. For no less than 2 years. They watched her waste away for 2 years and become completely blind before sending her for the help she deserved.

My lawsuit on her behalf is trivial in comparrison. I also get completely bent out of shape knowing the political stance on "trial lawyers". For the handful that abuse the system, they make it very difficult for the rest of us that have legitimate cause to fight the system for our children's rights. Or any other individual, family, that has suffered loss due to anothers negligence, arrogance or ignorance. That pot is endless. Money, status and self importance seems to outweigh the balance of pure justice in these times. For those of us fighting for simply the right to be heard, to make a stand, make a change in systems that do not work and fail us every day, it is our obligation and our right. The very foundation on which this country was founded. To rise above rather than be surpressed. When an ounce of prevention may have saved a pound of cure. That's why I am fighting. Why I am here now.

My best wishes, blessings and peace to all of us here. It may not be easy, but nothing worth fighting for is. Stay Strong.

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Chels: Boy, are you exactly right...everything you said is exactly me... I love your outlook, it is strong and meaningful. You are a remarkable person, just like, Denise. I swear, it really takes a wonderful, strong-willed person to stay this course we all have chosen...to fight back and demand someone be held accountable for the wrong-doings, alot of people run from it---I have to say, we three are a crew to be contended with---and I am proud to know you both. We will prevail in our battles and our children will have the justice they deserve; God rest their souls, and keep them. Stay close and in touch! WillsMom~~Allyson

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Allyson and Chels~I love the thought of being remarkable and strong-willed...however, there are times that it seems never ending and I would love to just give up...and we almost did within the first year. It seems to be so long and drawn out and I really want to be able to find justice for my baby...my 17 (almost 18) baby. She would hate (or make a joke about) me calling her my "baby". That is what keeps me going, I want the end to justify this process that we are going through. I am scared spitless sometimes that we won't make it...that somehow the RailRoad will win. I want it loud and clear for everyone to hear, that these kids were not on drugs, were not drinking, did not go around the arms. It is their reputation that is destroyed, their lives that were taken. Our lives that will forever be shaken, ruined, broken. what bothers me, with the R/R and medical field is that the only thing it is about for them is $$$$$. It makes me so mad, I could care less about the money, I just want Bridgette back. The R/R took the life of a goffy, lively, fun loving, soft hearted talented girl that was the love of our lives. The lawyers try to put a value on our loss...So, Bridgette was the Capt. of the cheerleading team, she was very artistic, she held down a job, she left 100's of friends and family members behind...How do you put a $ amount on that?

As for being deposed (Chels, you asked this, I believe); I haven't been depo-ed, I don't even know if I will need to be. My son will need to be, from what I understand, as he was the last to talk to any of the kids. My son was 16 at the time of the accident, he is only 18 now, how do I prepare him for that? I really don't know much about any of this other than it is a very long wait and really doesn't seem to move along at all. My suggestion, not that I follow my own advise, is to ask your lawyers for time-lines. Keep in mind that it won't be accurate, but it will be as close as they can get it at this point. There are so many variables that can change dates. With us, it is the R/R, they are constantly throwing things off by with holding information and such. They obviously don't want to finish this and are known for being difficult. However, the specialty lawyers that our law firms (5 law firms plus specailists)hired say that they have never seen the R/R fight so hard and hide so much, so it looks good for us at least, meaning it looks as though they are trying to hide some facts.

On a lighter note: we may need the money if this doesn't hurry, when we are stressed we remodel things...it is starting to get expensive...lol.

Hugs to you both--Denise

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RibitsMom,

I had to post and tell you, your comment about remodeling when you and your husband are stressed, made me smile!!

We've been doing the same thing around here!! Our jury trial is coming up next week, Tuesday and Wednesday, hopfully, this time! I pray there are no cancellations or reason to postpone, AGAIN!!

It's been almost 17 months since Josh passsed and we are also still without closure for ourselves or him!

I can also relate to your comments about the kid's reputations, which may make you wonder, since Josh did die with Methedone in his system, but I am also always trying to defend his actions and the fact that he was lied to as far as what these pills were and how lethal! Also there have always been newspaper articles and of course, the false rumors, stating that Josh was partying and drinking, which was not the case! He has nothing in his system except for the Methedone. I am not condoning the fact that he did take these pills, of which we will never know the answer, "why", to, but I know in my heart that he did not understand what they were and was also dealing with alot of peer pressure!

My son also had learning disibilities, since he was 4 years old. I truly beleive that he was just too much of a follower and didn't have the confiidence in himself to do what he knew was right in this situation. He was never in trouble with the law, never arrested, he too, was just an easy-going, goofy, fun-loving kid that had many many friends and a family that lohe loved and that loved him back! I too want this kid to pay for his mistakes! He chose to hand my son 3 pills. This was lethal dose, and he knew it!!! His own mother had the perscription for these pills and he saw what they did to her when she took them!

In August, actually, the 30th, which would have been Josh's 18th birthday, we got word that his Mother died of an overdose! I have to admit that I was very relieved to get that call!!!

Anyway,

I just wanted to connect with you and I want to send you all the best and hope that you will recieve justice for Brigitte and the other kids that were killed!

Hang in there, we've made it this far, I know you can get through it and I win in the end!! I pray that next week we too can say the same thing!

Hugs to you,

Josh's Mom (Sue)

To all of you posting here, also I want to say that I pray for a good outcome on each of your cases also!!! Our kids deserve it!!!

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Joshsmom/Sue: I have been wondering how you have been doing, I haven't seen you posting lately. I will be thinking of you next week; will you keep us posted as to the outcome?

The mom of the kid...the one that died; I am hoping that this means the kid has no access to the Methedone...but my guess is that he will find the drugs that he wants, even when his main source is gone. It is just so frustrating.

I know what you mean when you talk about Josh and the fact that he may have taken the pills this one time, but it wasn't a norm for him. As parents we know that our kids are going to try things (or a large portion of kids) but when we are thinking this, we are thinking of the things that we tried as kids...not this deadly SH** that is out there now.

I hate the gossip, everyone needs to find an answer to the loss and they start making things up and then it becomes fact because so and so said so. It is like the accident our daughter was in, the media assumed that all had been drinking, after all, it was homecoming night. So they put it in the news that it is fact...when they retract it is on page 18 in small print. It certainly makes me stop and think now about what I hear and what I believe. If it is heard 3rd hand, I won't believe it...if it is on the news, I won't believe it. I need facts now. I guess what I am saying is that I used to be just as bad as everyone else...except I didn't believe EVERYTHING I was told. But I did believe the news.

Thank you for your best wishes and I hope the best for you next week also.

Denise

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RibitsMom,

It is sad how people have to create something worse out of something that's already a tradgedy! But I guess that's human nature, but as you said, we are out of the norm for anything anymore, everything has been changed for us and the way we look at evertything!

I actually heard one of those so-called rumors myself about the Mom, I was told that her own son, the one that gave Josh the pills, her only child, went out and got the pills for her that killed her that night! I don't want to beleive it, but you just don't know anymore! This family was completly messed up! I just pray that he gets put away for awhile so he gets some kind of reality check, he really doesn't get it!!! That's very scary to me!

I found out yesterday that Josh's school Principal if allowing some of his friends to make a Memorial Page for him in the year book this year. He would ahve been a Senior. I was so happy that they finally relaized that it's not the way a person dies that matters to his freinds and family, it's that he did and he needs to be remembered! One of my worst fears is that he will be forgotten and he was to good of a friend to so many kids, I don't want that to happen!

My husband wanted one thing also, Josh's Diploma, so this friend also talked to the Prinipal about that, it wouldn't mean anything to anyone else anyway, but it would mean alot to us. He said he would look into it, I hope he can do this one little thing! After the way they treated us after this happened, it would be nice to have this one last thing from school.

I will definately let you all know the outcome next week, I'm just praying right now that it goes through as scheduled!!!!

Thankyou for your post, it's nice to hear from you again too. I've been reading all of the posts everyday, but just haven't felt good and haven't written, but I'm really glad I did now!

Take care and Hugs to you!

Josh's Mom

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Joshsmom, I am glad to hear that the school is coming to their senses. Kids have a way sometimes of making adults see the light. I am guessing Josh's friends had a lot to do with the way the principal has changed his outlook. Our educational system is a mess as it is, and when they can't deal with life shattering circumstances any better than they can deal with education then things will go badly for everyone involved. I guess better late than never, but the feelings one goes through while people are making up their minds can be very devastating for us. Jim

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Sue, I am glad that the school is dedicating part of the yearbook for Josh. Kristian's school did that for her, as well. It was sad. Some of what was said hit home, because of the friends writing who truly knew Kris, and some other things written were obviously because the teachers made the entire class write something. I didn't ask them to do this. They did it because the school wanted to. It's a great gesture. But for me, I wish that they only printed the things written from Kristian's closer friends. I don't mean to sound selfish, but Kristian's classmates were all 4th and 5th graders. It's harder for them to express, relate or understand. I feel bad because of the kids who had no idea what to say,yet felt as though they had to say something. It was mandatory.

As far as rumors go, I feel my "elders" know best. I have always been told "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see".

I hope all of you have made it this far for me to say, but we not only went through hell with the doctors, but also with this very same school. The one so supportive now, when at one point they seemed almost excited at the prospect of calling in the state to have Kristian taken from us. The same one I still allow my children to go to. We were judged and deemed "neglectful" parents before Kris' diagnosis.

My husband is still furious with them. He still refuses to participate in any way. I keep my other 2 children there because I moved to this very spot because it is the top third school district in this nation. And I am not afraid of who I am as a mother, nor will any pre misjudgement on their part scare me off. It was their misjudgement, not mine. I've been "vindicated" in a manner in which I never would have wanted. Not now or ever. Never.

Kris had just turned 10 herself. She left us the morning after her brothers 9th birthday. She held on that one more day just for him.

My son is going to be 11 in just 2 weeks. Kris' angel date is 2 weeks and 1 day. I can't express how proud of him I am in words. He knows. The morning she left. the entire day before. His birthday, Kristian's gift to him. The one gift he will never forget. His sister, his best friend in this entire world, held on one more day, just for him.

During Kris' last month with us, my son woke up every night, crying, swearing he'd find some way to save her, this very night, I found him sobbing in a corner.

Denise, I know your own son has gone through so much with his own grief.

There is no amount of money to take that hurt away from him, from me,from us as a family. I am a wreck because I have no idea how to make this better for him, or any of us. It's been nearly 2 years and it's still so fresh. It hurts horribly.

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It sure does feel good to know that the school has finally come to their senses and allowed Josh's friends to show some outward grieving and not get put down for it. I am so grateful to the girls that haven't given up their fight for Josh and how important "Remembering him", is to them and to us!

Yesterday I got a call from the District Attorney and he told us that the kid's court appointed lawyer called him and wants to settle without a trial. I don't know what to think about it all! I haven't heard back from him yet, so i don't know what they are trying to propose, but it's scary! I know that this way he will for sure get some time behind bars, where as if we opt for the jury trial, there is always the chance that he would be found not guilty or have a very light sentence given. He is looking at a maximum of 70 years, but everyone knows the court system and he would never get anything close to that!

Our older son is very upset with us and doens't agree with settling out of court. He feels that if they want to do this it is because they are afraid and he thinks that the jury trial would be the better route.

I am so confused, on the one side, I am not looking forward to sitting through a trial, but on the other side, I don't want him to get off lighter either!

We only have till October 25th, that's the jury trial.

Anyone have any thoughts????? I really would appreciate hearing from anyone on this!!

Thanks for your support on the school issue!! It means alot to me!

Josh's Mom (Sue)

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Joshsmom/Sue: As you have probably read on my past posts...I really would love to have a day in court...it may not be an option for me, but I want a court trial. When they settle out of court, it is not public. The news casts won't do a story on it (probably), no one will know that this kid is concidered guilty....these are my thoughts and my opinions ONLY. Please do what you feel you need to do, I just wanted you to know that I understand your older son, you want someone to pay and you want them to pay PUBLICLY.

Denise

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Sue, it looks like you are going to have to make a very hard decision, but you are being realistic about the court system. Taking the time to at least listen to what they have to say is not going to hurt anything and might be interesting. One never knows what is going to happen when the justice system enters into anything having to do with the death of a child. It is so hard to even have to consider the possibilities. I an sure your son is very upset, kids have a tendency to rule totally from thier hearts and I am sure his is broken, but the outcome as with anything that isn't certain, could be just as heartbreaking. One will never know unless they have to proceed with a jury trial. The situation of the evidence can play harshly both ways, rather justified or not. I know you have tried to explain this to him, but kids will just be kids, they hurt and feel all the emotions of the loss very hard. They want justice, but unfortunately our justice system, although probably the best in the world, leaves a lot to be desired. The saying justice is blind should be true, but it isn't, way too many variables to make it blind. Of course that doesn't mean that the outcome couldn't be one that you want, but standing back and trying to find what you want, with all the emotions of the loss of Josh, is very hard. I hope that family time and discussion will end up helping and keep including your son in everything, he needs to look in the eyes of this kid and see if there is any remorse or any understanding of what he did.

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Joshsmom,

We have our day in court finally October 31,It has been almost 1 year since Tyler and his friend Chad were killed.We wanted a jury trial as well but the driver responsible for my son entered a plea so all we get is a dispositional hearing where the kid will see no jail time.Everybody has forgot about the legal aspect of the accident so we invited the editor of our town paper to the dispositional hearing so everybody will know what happens in court.It is frustrating though as whatever sentence is issued it will pale in comparison to what our sons were sentenced.

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Thankyou all for your thoughts, it really is comforting to not feel so alone with this!

We did hear from the DA yesterday and he sent us a fax of the proposal he was going to make to the kid's lawyer and I am appaulled by what he sent! This kid is charged as an adult and charged with 1st degree reckless homocide, which carries a max 40yr sentence, plus two counts of dirtibuting a perscription narcotic which each carries an additional 15 yrs. Total maximum, 70 years. Well he is proposing to have the homcide and 1 of the ditributing charges, read in at sentencing but then dismissed, and he recommends 1 year in jail, no prison, for the last charge and some probation time. If he messes up at any time on probation, he goes to prison on the charge. At first we were just humiliated and sickened by what he sent. After a day and a night of thinking on it, we all agreed that going to trial would be what we wanted. I wouldn't feel this way as much if this kid had changed his ways, showed some remorse and responsibility in his actions for what happened, but he hasn't! The DA seemed to act like he felt sorry for this kid now. He lost his Mother to a drug overdose in August and he has had a very skrewed up family life! Well maybe so, but my son made a mistake that day also and he paid for it with his life. Now this kid will only get a few months in jail and be right back out there continuing his ways! The probation system as far as I'm concerned, is too leaniant and people know ways around that system! He will be laughing in our faces!

Why did they even charge him in the first place to make us wait 17 months for nothing!

I realize that he isn't getting off completly, but I do feel that it isn't enough time for him to change!

So now on Monday it will go before the judge and he will have the last say as far as what will happen next. He may say no and want the trial to go through, but we will have to wait and see. We also will be able to have a say somewha, before sentencing, which would be in 5 to 6 weeks. They are asking for a pre-sentencing exam, which means that alot of different people and information will be brought in and looked at before they decide. I guess to be spared a trial where it looks like they would be trying everything to make Josh look worse that this kid, and have to be subjected to listening to all the things that will be brought up, and like Kirk's Dad said, in the end possibly get nothing, makes me look at this as our best shot. I really don't know though and I guess we don't have as much input as we thought. It's once again, out of our hands!

Tuesday is the first day of the jury trial, so it's not like we have any time to do much now!

If he is the type of kid we know he is, I guess we just wait until he skrews up on probation and hope that prison takes over from there!

Thanks again for all your thoughts. It is just so hard and confusing! This isn't something any of us have experience in!!! I have no clue and thought we could trust the DA, but in the end the justice system fails again!

I will post again and let you know what happens next.

Tyler's Mom,

How awful that this boy kills two people and doesn't get punished at all! It is just sickening to hear this!!! It's hard to have any type of closure on this when nothing happens to anyone but you and your family! I will pray that you get some kind of justice.....I beleive that they will pay for what they did when they see God! It may be awhile, but it will happen and then they can face eternity knowing they did wrong!

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Well, we had a Pre-Trial Conference this morning with the DA, the kid got his plea bargian.

He pleaded guilty to the contributing a perscription narcotic, and we had the DA add in the clause that the act of contributing did substantially contribute to the death of Joshua. This is a Felony and will be on his permenant record. It carries a 10 year maximum prison term and 5 years probation. But the DA recommended one year in jail and probation. If he violates the probation in any way, the plea is dismissed and he goes to prison. Sentencing is January 3rd, 2006, and the judge is not bound by the plea bargain. He can sentence the kid to whatever he feels he wants.

I'm comfortable with the outcome. I just wanted him to acknowledge his wrongdoing in what happened to Josh and be held accountable. This way, I think he will be and we wont have to be put through a jury trial!!

He may have gotten less if we went that route, because unfortunately there were problems in the beginning with the tests and samples taken from Josh. The Coroner's office mishandled all of that and there was a good chance that at trial the evidence may have been thrown out for that reason! Good Job, I think the Coroner should have lost her job for the unprofessional way she handled our case....she knew it may be criminal, but it's too late now and everything has changed. Now we wait for sentencing and wonder if or when the kid will skrew up again, and pray that if he does, no one else will have to die!

Thanks for listening!

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Joshsmom, I wonder what the system really feels about the loss of a kid. How they can sit back and see the anguish in a parents eyes and plea bargain things down the way they do. I try to tell myself that is just they way the justice system works, but that doesn't make it fair. I am glad there was at least an outcome that makes the kid accountable for what has happened. I am guessing you will be able to tell more about what is going on with the kid when it comes to sentencing. I hope that you are able to make an impact statement and that you will be able to tell if the kid has any remorse for what has happened in his life. God be with you in all you still have to go through. I will keep thinking about you and Josh.

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Joshsmom/Sue: I am glad that you are comfortable with the results, it eases my mind...but I do hope the judge is a smart enough man to put this boy in jail longer than the 1 year. Is this 1 year for sure...in jail or possible to be out in 3 months? I hope, with all my heart that this boy reforms, stays away from drugs and distributing them.

My thoughts are with you, keep us up to date on what is happening. I send you a huge hug.

Denise-Bridgette's mom.

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Thankyou RibitsMom and Kirk's Dad for your responses! I really want you to know how much they mean to me!

It's not really that we feel comfortable with the outcome so far, but that we felt we really had no other option to get him to for sure face some jail time!

Our main thoughts are like yours, that the judge feels for us and Josh in this case and sees through this kid's falsehoods and gives him what he really deserves.....time in prison that will make him think about what he's done!

Sitting in that courtroom with him just feet away and hearing his voice, was almost more that I could handle! I cried throughout the whole pre-trial confernece, it was just too hard for me! I am grateful that this is all I had to endure, I don't beleive I could have sat through a jury trial, especially id they wouldn't have allowed the results of the tests proving that Methedone is what killed my son!

Now we wait again....which is something we've gotten used to with the justice system, but pray that we still see some justice for Josh!

Hugs back to you also and I'm praying for you and your road ahead!

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Depositins begin this month:11/22 to be exact, and I cannot decide if I am stable enough to attend. Attorneys think I cannot handle sitting there in complete silence, no movements, no coughing, NO nothing, but I would love to hear it all first hand. I can watch the videotape and read the transcripts, but I feel nothing would be better than to sit there (or try too) andlisten to this doctor try to bullshit her way out, when there is not one. Any thoughts?? Should I just let the lawyers have at her...I can't say anything anyway. I wonder if my presence would disturb her?? That would be good enough for me---anyone, think that is possible?? Have a nice evening...WillsMom~~Allyson------This turmoil is killing me.

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Allyson-My thought on it is that you are going to want to butt-in, I would if I were sitting there. Not only that, but it is going to be heart breaking sitting there...I would recommend not going...however, I would probably go too, actually, there is no "probably" about it.

Denise

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Allyson - we will pray you through on the 22nd. The one year anniversary of April's accident is 11/17 and her funeral was the 22nd. I know she'd have me praying for your strength that day! Take Care, Renee

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Wills Mom,

I send you good thoughts and support in your upcoming court proceedings!

I understand every word you wrote! We just went through a Pre-trial conference where a plea bargain was brought in on behalf of the kid that gave my sone the Methedone pills. Just having to sit a few feet away from him and listen to his voice, just broke me apart! Every time he spoke, even just to answer yes, or no, I broke down crying! It was very hard to sit through, but afterwards I was so very glad that we were there and sat there and was a voice for Josh! I wanted this kid and his family to have to see us and the hurt he caused and causes us, still!!!

We have setencing on Jan. 3rd, and we are able to say whatever we want to before the judge, I have been laying awake at night and thinking about this since the pre-trial! I want to write things down and just be able to read from a peice of paper, just so I get it exactly right, but I know once I begin to talk, I will once again, begin to break down and by the end of the letter, I'm sure I wont be able to even be understood!

But...even so, I will be there and I will do my very best to be Josh's voice and be strong to get this pain we've been brought, out in the open for the judge and everyone else to see. For once I wont have to hold it back and fight the tears!

I wish you strength and also justice for your little boy!!!

Hugs to you and all of your family as you get through another hurdle!!

Josh's Mom

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Hi JoshsMom: I really wish I had the inner strength to sit there, the attorney discourages it heavily. He fears I will have a(n) outburst whether it be crying or a string of foul language, who knows? When you got emotional what did they do? Did they just continue or allow you to pull yourself together? I was told I could say or do nothing; show no emotion---no movements, I mean, nothing. He never did say what would happen if I did rip into her or cry. He just basically said, he though I should skip this and read/watch it. I am now wondering if I should go, I mean, we have been through the worst thing earthly possible. I am afraid of my reactions, especially if I feel she is lying or putting a twist on things....I am just at a loss, in a million ways. Count down has begun though. Thank-you for your kindness and I have to say I admire you facing that boy. Sincerely, WillsMom~~Allyson

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Will's Mom,

How come the lawyers are saying that you can't show any emotion? I can understand them not wanting you to shout out at her, but to cry, how can you not? What do they feel will hurt your case if you cry?

I cried during the Pre-trial, but not loudly! The judge saw it, the DA saw it, the court transcriber saw it, but everyone over on the kid's side of the courtroom were not concerned with what my husband and I were doing. We didn't talk at all during court. We talked with the DA in his office before the court began and had everything we wanted, written in to the plea bargain before we went into court. It was given to the kid's lawyer and they looked it over and agreed in a seperate room. When the agreement came we went into the courtroom before the judge and that's when he pleaded guilty to the lesser charges.

Sentencing will be the hard part for me! That's when I will have to go in front of the courtroom and speak! That's when I know I will break down! I don't know if that's will be a good thing or not, but I can only do my best! I want to have things written down and read it, I am alot better at writing my feelings down rather than trying to talk about them! I don't have a clue as to where to start! Josh's life can't be justified in a short page letter! I know once i sit down and begin to write it down, it will be so complicated to show what our whole family has felt since this happened!

I wish you strength and I know you will make the right desision for you!

I pray that you get the justice you deserve! This is the worst possible thing a parent can be put through! But....being a Mom is the best thing in the world, and even though Josh is not physically here, I am still his Mom and I will fight for him until I feel he's gotten justice! He didn't deserve what happened to him, and either did any child that dies! We have been left here to handle the aftermath, and being Josh's Mom has given me the strenth to do that! I wont let him down!!!!

Hugs to you and I am thinking of you as you start this!

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Hi JoshsMom---thank-you for the reply, and I agree with you totally. I am going to call him today, or e-mail him. He should have a list of questions and I will speak with him further on being present. I do not understand his reasoning either; other than the fact that it maybe something he does not want to deal with, you know, the "grieving mother"~~He is really kinda a hard ass, but not in a bad way, just stern.

I agree with everything you say, and feel. I hope you get the justice you deserve also and that Josh sees what a wondeful Mother he has in you...you are a mighty fine person, and a great fighter!! Kudos to you!!! I hate to sound vengeful, but I hope they throw the book and the kid, what he did is awful and he should face it head on. I wish you only the best. Please keep me posted and I will let you know what the lawyer tells me today...I wish you a nice, peaceful day, and may Josh and Will rest easy and be waiting for us when our time arrives...God Bless and stay strong--even though I think you are doing a great job of that already!! Off to drop everyone at school....Have a calm day!! WillsMom

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I'm a bit confused with this court system that I am reading from you. When I went to the bail hearing last week, the little ingrade was on a monitor and the prosecutor was watching me very opening bawl my eyes out and didn't say a word. If anything, the Judge looked at me and it almost looked like he felt sorry for me. How can we as mothers not cry? The assholes killed our kids. What are we supposed to do????

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Wills Mom: Kevinsmom just lost her son to murder and I am sure dealing with the arrest of the person that commited the crime/MURDER. I agree, we as parents should be allowed to attend these hearings and should not be told that we are not allowed to be emotional...however, the hearing that Kevinsmom is talking about is different from what you are going through. I believe you are going through a deposition (which I don't think Kevins mom will need to deal with), and a deposition is a bit different as it is an evidence gathering/statement type of ordeal.

We were not asked to be present in the depositions either, not even told when they would take place, other than the first one...and that was only because they were giving us time lines as to when certain things would be completed.

We were however, asked to NOT attend some of the hearings...for the same reason you have stated. Too emotional (us parents)we get in the way is What I think they are saying. We were also ORDERED to not attend one of the evidence gathering projects (they brought an identical car and a crane with a film crew to the site of the accident to film the car going through the intersection)...we were told in no uncertain terms, DO NOT GO, by the Judge, no less.

Denise

Denise

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