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People here are the only people who can relate, we can relate with each other. It is this reason that I am posting some responses from my mother. I would honestly like to know from whomever cares to provide feedback, if I am being too sensitive or if my mother's remarks are a little callous. I do keep in mind of course that her intentions are good and she means well. Two recent responses to my emails regarding my recent regression:

 

"Well, I have a responsibility which God and Bonnie gave me, and I won't give up.  You have a will, a strong will and it can motivate you.  You have allowed yourself to go backwards and become angry and bitter again.  You can sink into this anger and self-pity or you can use that strong will and find ways to pull yourself up.

 
Get back to a grief group.  Think about your son and what Bonnie would want for you, but DON'T GIVE UP. Go outside and see the beauty that has been created for you.  Bonnie did that even when she was ill. "
 
"Son, I will not give up on trying to talk to you, and God will not either.  We love you so very much and I know that we have to be strong and I have always thought you were strong and you are.  You will have to dig deep into that strength.  You have to realize that Bonnie would want you to continue to find someone and be happy.  If you believe that, you should want that too or she would be disappointed in you.  I plan to talk to you before we leave because I want to be there for you, but you have to seek your grief group and your counselor's help also.  I'm only your mother, no mensa degree, but only love and support for you. "
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Okay the first two things maybe but the last one, she blew it as far as I'm concerned!  WTH!  I know this is your mother, but geez!  Speak your mind to her.  Be nice about it (if you can) be respectful, but tell her what you want to reply...be honest.  JMO

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I am inclined to disagree here. I can perfectly see where she is coming from and from what I can tell she really cares. Of course a lot of it is in the way it is said, the inflection can make it seem kind or harsh depending.

I get that saying you should find someone else is hurtful. We don't want anyone else. Not ever.

A friend tried to set me up with a date just weeks after I lost my husband. When I declined he just said "too soon?". I was not upset. At that time I felt so utterly worthless and useless without my husband it was actually good to be told that someone thought I was worth knowing, especially since I had heard him talk about the guy he wanted me to meet and he sounded like a good catch for someone.

I can only say, try to take it in the spirit it was intended. Some people here have recounted horrible remarks. I was once told " he's not coming back so get over it". That one hurt.

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17 hours ago, LMR said:

from what I can tell she really cares.

Of COURSE she cares!  No one is disputing that!  The point is, is it her place to tell him what to do/feel/think regarding grief or his decisions?  NO!! Not imo.  He asked so I gave it.

Yes it's always good advice to take it in the spirit it was intended, but sometimes in grief that's not possible for us.  Especially in EARLY grief!  And it's okay to tell people what you're feeling so long as you do it in a respectful and sensitive way.  But we've all heard of family members that are bulldozers (not his mom) and those require more of a bludgeon response as that's all they understand/get. ;)

 

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On 11/22/2021 at 7:11 AM, BBB said:

Frankly I believe I have every right to self-pity, in these circumstances.

And you do.  You don't want to stay there, but you're not even a year out, you betcha your sweet bippy you're entitled to it!

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23 hours ago, cmp34 said:

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I've saved this, it's a good way to put it.  I know people who really hate suggestions, they don't FEEL like them...while they may be appropriate (to a point) at some time, in early grief, #1 seems the best option.  I have bad tendency of wanting to come up with solutions...ugh.  I needed reminded of this!!!

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Your grief is your own as is your path through it.  Some people think they need to slap you awake.  I have seen this approach before.  Admittedly it's hard to tell if we are sleep walking sometimes.  Still as my therapist tells me grief is full of peaks and valleys.  You can choose to ignore the manner of your mother's approach and look honestly (if you can) at the valley you are currently in.   Do what you feel is right for you and when you feel it is right for you.

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4 hours ago, LMR said:

If you know that somebody means to be kind even if their efforts are clumsy just let it go. We are all over sensitive and we know it.

Good point.  I tend to address things as they come and try to be both frank and kind/sensitive to them.  It's what I've found works, otherwise you keep getting more of the same.  But I also let go of it afterwards when I know it's someone who loves me and just doesn't know...

The hard ones are those who are raw and bludgeon us, those can take a flying leap!

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I wouldn't get caught up in the bumbling words much but more the intent behind them, which, as far as I can tell, are golden. Forgive her for the bumbling and appreciate the love. I'd be very happy to get such a thoughtful and well-intended message from....hell anyone. 

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I feel differently, I feel HOW people use their words makes a difference, and HOW we take it, well, it's harder to take things positively when they strike us negatively and we're in a sensitive state of mind with EARLY grief.  Now I can take or leave things and state my mind if I feel the need, but back then, well people said stupid things that hurt.  I guess that's why there are ARTICLES about what NOT to say to someone grieving!  I'm not alone in thinking this matters and our feelings are valid.  jmo

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Well sure it matters, not saying otherwise, just saying I think it merits trying to keep in mind the intent when the urge to whack someone upside the head for saying something stupid comes along, and that there is a difference between saying something insensitive with the best of intentions but out of ignorance (so many people just don't know what to say...I didn't before I was on the other side of it) vs saying something one knows is insensitive. Not saying that makes it "OK," just that intent matters and shouldn't be dismissed due to the sting of the poor choice of words. 

And having had people who I thought really cared say nothing to me, I would trade that for stupid but well-intended words any day of the week. Granted not much of a choice.

ugh. They should have a mandatory class in this for kids in HS. 

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On 11/24/2021 at 3:00 AM, LMR said:

Cut them some slack! If you know that somebody means to be kind even if their efforts are clumsy just let it go. We are all over sensitive and we know it. I cry walking around the supermarket because I see things he would like. I know this isn't normal behavior but there's nothing much I can do about it.

Truly, if you think about it we know which people are trying to help and which ones just find us a bore! 

I agree to some extent when people are trying to relate or be helpful.  But IMO, in this case it feels as if you are also telling BBB what to think, do, and feel.  If you are able to let things like "get out of your self pity" go, that's great--for you.  I mean that sincerely.  But in a sense, you are telling him that how he feels is wrong.  I disagree.  Feelings are neither good nor bad, they simply are.  We have to accept that others will relate and react differently from us.  I think it's a good idea to remind others here that people are often clumsy and sometimes don't think through how things come across, but OTOH, the things people say and write can be very hurtful regardless of intent.  And of course, I could be reacting a little overly sensitively to all of it because I don't think that ever fully goes away.

Of course you're completely right that we tend to be overly sensitive, especially at the beginning, but does that mean we have to just let things roll off our backs if they are upsetting, painful, or come across as uncaring?  Again IMO, no.  We are already carrying enough; we should not be expected to carry the weight of unkindness, whether intentional or not.  How we deal with it is as unique as we are.  I’m not going to "yell" at someone about it, but I did come to a place where I could say how I felt about it and why.  Our society sucks at acknowledging the depths of grief, much less dealing with it.  The more others understand, though of course it's not possible to fully "get it" unless/until it happens to them, the more we might begin to find compassion and consideration for those going through deep grief.

I sure understand about crying while shopping.  It took me a very long time to be able to shop without breaking down into sniffles or full blown crying every time I walked by the deli counter and thought, "I wonder if that expensive ham John loves is on sale this week?" etc.  I have never been comfortable crying in front of others, but I couldn't control that and didn't much care what anyone thought of me.

On 11/21/2021 at 7:01 AM, BBB said:

"Son, I will not give up on trying to talk to you, and God will not either.  We love you so very much and I know that we have to be strong and I have always thought you were strong and you are.  You will have to dig deep into that strength.  You have to realize that Bonnie would want you to continue to find someone and be happy.  If you believe that, you should want that too or she would be disappointed in you.  I plan to talk to you before we leave because I want to be there for you, but you have to seek your grief group and your counselor's help also.  I'm only your mother, no mensa degree, but only love and support for you. "

I am with you in your reactions to your mom's statements.  It's not a matter of whether she cares about you; of course she does.  She is trying to be supportive, but in a way that is very much a negative about you--that you are not living up to her expectations.  Her last sentence sounds so much like something my mom might have written, though she was a member of mensa...that doesn't matter when it comes to emotional stuff.  It's so "mom guilt trip" in a way my mom might have been.  Like, "Don't listen to me.  I'm only your mother." (sigh; guilt-guilt).

Here are the things that would bother me the most, had my mom said them to me.  She is claiming to speak for God and for Bonnie.  That is supremely arrogant, IMO, regardless of the fact that I think she meant it as a "pep talk."  She's telling you that if you don't get out of your "self pity" and "be strong" and "move forward" and on and on, then you are a disappointment to God, to Bonnie, and to her.  She even comes right out and says that Bonnie will be or maybe is disappointed in how you are behaving and feeling.  That's (excuse the expression) a crap ton of weight and guilt to put into your heart and mind. 

If anyone would "know" what Bonnie wanted, it's you.  And your mom telling you to "find someone and be happy" because it's what Bonnie wants is again very inappropriate and hurtful, IMO.  Of course Bonnie would want you to find some happiness, in whatever way you can.  She would also know that getting there is a long, painful, slow journey that only you can make in your own time and your own way.

I suppose the bottom line is that what she wrote was hurtful and perhaps felt demeaning to you.  It doesn't matter her intent and it doesn't matter how anyone else might react or respond.  Your feelings are valid in every way.

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Thanks Forever. I know that your empathy comes from going through the very same thing that I am. I took her words very much like you did. I think I stated this before, I know she loves but she has never been an empath type of person.

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17 hours ago, foreverhis said:

But IMO, in this case it feels as if you are also telling BBB what to think, do, and feel.

That's how it struck me as well, that's why I tell people, "Your feelings are valid."  IMO we should honor our feelings.  How each of us chooses to do this is unique to us.  And that's okay too.

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Yes. exactly. When people come across that way, then the grieving person feels like the other person is attempting to invalidate your feelings. Like you have no right to feel sorry for yourself or no right to be angry. You know what? I have EVERY right to be angry because my best friend, the person I loved more than anything in life was taken away from me. Damnit, I AM ANGRY. Don't tell me I shouldn't be!

 

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14 hours ago, BBB said:

Yes. exactly. When people come across that way, then the grieving person feels like the other person is attempting to invalidate your feelings. Like you have no right to feel sorry for yourself or no right to be angry. You know what? I have EVERY right to be angry because my best friend, the person I loved more than anything in life was taken away from me. Damnit, I AM ANGRY. Don't tell me I shouldn't be!

 

I did a 6 week support group a few months back.  The group never really clicked and haven't been of any use, but the first page of the handouts they gave us gave a list of rights we all have.  We have the right to be sad, to be angry, etc.  No one is allowed to dictate to us how to grieve or invalidate what we feel.

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The day after my beautiful wife crossed, my brother in law said something like, "You're still young, you could find someone else."  I don't believe for a second that he was being intentionally callous or that he meant to hurt me in any way.  I know he was also in deep shock and people say all kinds of ridiculous things when theyre in a bad state. I know he knows I loved his sister deeply and always will and that I'm not interested in anyone else. I hold no grudge for him having said this to me. 

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It's one of those well-intended but inappropriate things to say to someone in grief.:wub:  I doubt anyone holds a grudge over it but it still slams us and hurts us to the core to even hear.  I mean, we JUST LOST OUR SOULMATE!  It wasn't planned, it came out of nowhere, destroying our being and life!  To even suggest we could replace them like a sack of potatoes...is just wrong.

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40 minutes ago, Jemiga70 said:

The day after my beautiful wife crossed, my brother in law said something like, "You're still young, you could find someone else."  I don't believe for a second that he was being intentionally callous or that he meant to hurt me in any way.  I know he was also in deep shock and people say all kinds of ridiculous things when theyre in a bad state. I know he knows I loved his sister deeply and always will and that I'm not interested in anyone else. I hold no grudge for him having said this to me. 

I hate to say it but when I hear this from my wife's friends or family it is a signal they are done with me.  I really don't hear from them again.  Largely because in their eyes the relationship was with my wife and not me.  I hope your experience is different. 

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17 hours ago, Jemiga70 said:

I hold no grudge for him having said this to me. 

I agree that it's not beneficial to hold grudges over things like that, especially said at the very beginning and when the other person is grieving too.  It helps no one to stay upset about it forever.  (My exception is doctors who, IMO, contributed to John not being diagnosed or treated early enough.)  I did kick a few acquaintances out of my life because they pretended John never existed at all.  That I cannot forgive or forget.

I do try to let people know if something they've said is hurtful and why. I figure that it might help in the future if they remember, "Oh yeah, Annie said that XYZ was really painful for her to hear" or "No, Annie reminded me that's a platitude that made her feel worse."

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Is it better if they pretend? I am having a hard time now. It has been 15 months since I lost the love of my life, my love for 48 years. I have moved in with my sister who was living alone. We get on great. We love each other and have always had a good relationship. When I first got here we cried together a couple of times but I cannot figure out what she feels now. She doesn't say anything any more. She doesn't seem to notice my tears. I would rather know than be worrying about it all the time.

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I never said anything about holding a grudge or severing a relationship over something that people said because they have not walked in my shoes. What I am saying is that it pisses me off and I was wondering if it pisses anyone else off. I get over it.

 

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No one attributed that to you, Annie quoted where it came from.  Of course it upsets us when it's been said to us!  It's inappropriate, IMO!

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2 hours ago, BBB said:

I never said anything about holding a grudge or severing a relationship over something that people said because they have not walked in my shoes. What I am saying is that it pisses me off and I was wondering if it pisses anyone else off. I get over it.

 

My therapist keeps telling me to let people know how you feel.  Don't be nasty about it (which I often joke about doing), but if something upset you let them know.  If you don't I guess it's likely to be repeated.  It's not in my nature so I find it hard to tell people that. 

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On 11/22/2021 at 10:11 AM, BBB said:

I know she cares, she is my mother. I know she loves me. But when someone is down, well for me, the last thing I want to hear is 'pull yourself out of this self pity'. Frankly I believe I have every right to self-pity, in these circumstances.

 

I don't think it's self pity.  It's grief, it's a loss. It can look like self pity, and it might be somewhere near self pity, but it's LOSS. We've experienced an extreme loss. 
I've experience the loss of a job, that I didn't think I'd loose, and that threw me for a loop.  I experienced a divorce, and that was a loss and feeling of betrayal. 
But we've lost our best friends, our partners, and I'd think that for most of us, we lost them with us loving them, and they in return. No anger, no hate, no betrayal. Just a vast empty space where they once were.   

Everything that I've read about this, says that it's something that you'll deal with on your own time. Don't rush it. Acknowledge the loss. Try and find things to fill your time that help. That's going to take some exploring on your own. I've been reading some books on grief, and hang out here from time to time, along with some other groups 

This was shared with me, and I'll pass it along... 

Grief - Expectations You Can Have for Yourself

You can expect that:

Your grief will take longer than most people think it should. Your grief will take more energy than you can imagine.

Your grief will involve continual changes. Your grief will show itself in all spheres of your life and who you are. It will affect your social relationships, your health, thoughts, feelings, and spiritual beliefs.

Your grief will depend upon how you perceive the loss. You will grieve for many things (both symbolic and tangible), not just the death itself.

You will grieve for what you have lost already as well as for the future - for the hopes, dreams and unfulfilled expectations you held for and with that person. Your grief will involve a wide variety of feelings and reactions: some expected,

some not.

This loss will resurrect old losses, feelings, and unfinished business from the past.

You may have some confusion about who you are; this is due to the intensity and unfamiliarity of the grieving experience and uncertainty about your new role in the world.

You may have a combination of anger and depression: irritability, frustration,

intolerance.

You may feel guilt in some form. You may have a poor sense of self-worth.

You may experience spasms, waves, or acute upsurges of grief that occur without warning.

You will have trouble thinking and making decisions: poor memory and prat organization.

You may feel like you are going crazy.

You may be obsessed with the death or preoccupied with thoughts of the dead person.

You will search for meaning in your life and question your beliefs. You may find yourself acting differently.

Society has unrealistic expectations about your mourning and my respond inappropriately.

You will have a number of physical reactions.

Certain dates, events, seasons, and reminders will bring upsurges in your grief. Certain experiences later in life may resurrect intense grief feelings for you.

 

Timetable for Grief

One of the most frequently asked questions is: "How long will these feelings last?" The following guidelines are general descriptions and may vary widely from one individual to another.

Month one: In the first month, grieving persons may be so busy with funeral arrangements, visitors, paperwork and other immediate tasks that they have little time to begin the grieving process. They may also be numb and feel that the loss is unreal. This shock can last beyond the first month if the death was sudden, violent or particularly untimely.

Month three: The three month point is a particularly challenging time for many grieving persons. Visitors have gone home, cards and call have pretty much stopped coming in, and most of the numbness has worn off. Well meaning family and friends who do not understand the grief process may pressure the grieving person to get back to normal. The grieving person is just beginning the very painful task of understanding what this loss really means.

Months four through twelve: The grieving person continues to work through the many tasks of learning to live with the loss. There begins to be more good days than bad days. Difficult periods will crop up sometimes with no obvious trigger, even late into the last half of the first year. It is important that the grieving person understands that these difficult periods are normal, rather than a set back or a sign of lack of progress.

Significant anniversaries: During the first year, personal and public holidays present additional challenges. Birthdays (of the deceased and other family members), wedding anniversaries, and family and school reunions can be difficult periods. Medical anniversaries, such as the day of the diagnosis, the day someone was hospitalized or came home from the hospital can also bring up memories. The grieving person may not be consciously keeping track of these days, but is still affected by them.

The one-year anniversary of the death: Reactions to the anniversary of the death may begin days or weeks before the actual date. Many people describe reliving those last difficult days. Even individuals who have been doing very well toward the end of the first year may be surprised at how intensely the one-year anniversary affects them. People generally welcome additional acknowledgment or support during anniversaries.

The second year: Most grieving people agree that it takes at least two years to start feeling like they have established workable new routines and a new identity without the deceased person. Many of the tasks of the second year have to do with re-assessing goals, discovering a new identity and creating a different life style.

This handout was developed by Kansas City Hospice, underwritten by Prime Health Foundation
 

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