When

[BBB]

TND: "And I'm not suicidal but my husband said suicide is a selfish act"

 

I'm not trying to cause a riff but that sentence really sets me off. There are SO many articles out there they say this isn't true. There are STILL so many misconceptions about mental health and grief. Suicide is simply when the pain outweighs your coping abilities.

 

https://www.nami.org/Personal-Stories/Suicide-is-Not-a-Selfish-Act

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/family-resources-education/700childrens/2019/11/suicide-is-not-a-choice

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-act-be/202003/is-suicide-really-selfish-act

 

 

 

[John9]

june483,

I understand the routine of habits and how you expect "something" to happen that has always happened throughout the relationship and SUDDENLY it doesn't.

As I said before we always said I love you whenever we left each other and we did the last time too, but because she had an oxygen mask on I never "heard" her sweet voice that last time and it really hurts and haunts me because I can't ever get that chance again. I know that she loved me with all her heart and soul and that she knew that I did as well but I didn't know that was the last time I would see her alive. So much left to do and say because we HAD time.

 

[KayC]

1 hour ago, BBB said:

Suicide is simply when the pain outweighs your coping abilities.

I love how this is put!  And so true.  Although it can SEEM selfish to those left behind, the person is not thinking about anything but their own inner pain and wanting/needing it to be over.  I had a friend who also worked with me, I'd known him all his life, he had mental health issues and his psychiatrist was going to change his Rx on Monday...alas Sunday he commit suicide.  He didn't think he could hold out until Monday.  His dog was next to him and had to be rehomed.  How horrific it must have been for that poor dog!  It was very hard on the family.

[BBB]

Right Kay. It's just a sentence that really irks me personally. There is a saying which everyone knows and that is "Don't judge someone unless you've walked in their shoes". Well I take it a step further and say "Just don't judge". People may go through the exact same things in life and do completely different things. We're all different. Maybe that person who committed suicide feels things deeper, maybe that person already had mental challenges to start with. People want to blanket judge others who commit suicide and they don't even know them.

 

[John9]

BBB,

What you say is true and that is why I said all grief is personal and unique. I believe the biggest issue with "people" is people. People want to "think" that they will always know more than anyone else because that is what they were taught by someone. Suicide has a negative "meaning" because of many reasons and I believe the number one is religion and what they say about Heaven and that keeps me breathing because if it's true I can't chance it. That being said I would NEVER say to you or anyone that you were right or wrong to do it. I also am not preaching religion I just WANT to believe that there is more than this crappy world. I can never say I wouldn't do it because as the situation is ever evolving and my state of mind is constantly looping and such, who knows. I will state I don't drink and I have never done drugs so I don't have that temptation in y house and I have also commented before about another issue with suicide is I have seen and heard of things going wrong and making it worse for you or whomever is left behind. Sorry if this got off the rails and I am rambling but this is how the brain works now. I would hope that anyone who "needs" the help to prevent themselves from harming themselves get it or has someone close who sees it and can help but as we know it doesn't always happen because sometimes it is a snap decision and it's too late as KayC noted in her reply.

[John9]

KayC,

I am sorry for the loss of your friend and the fact that it happened how it happened and also sorry for his dog and his family. Sadly I have heard that sometimes the person will "take" the pet also and I know that the dog "suffered" but hopefully is doing well. I am not even going to try to get in someone else's head when I can't even figure out my own. I have made my comments about suicide and at this time that is what I believe. Things change and "break" people and yes I am afraid sometimes about the next "shoe" dropping and pushing me past my breaking point. I just hope I don't reach it before I die, hopefully not by suicide. I feel for anyone who believed that was the only way but not in a judging way. As much as we are in this together for support we are all ALONE in our uniqueness of how we handle or deal with our grief. I want for everything to work out but as most are here because it didn't we all know how that worked for us.

[LMR]

I will admit it crossed my mind but I don't think I could do it. Its not really a case of wanting to die, just not wanting to be here without him. We were neither of us religious but of course when you lose someone you cling to the idea that they are still existing somewhere. The alternative is just too hard to fathom besides which I think I am still in denial.

So where do they go and if you killed yourself would you go to the same place or not? Without the answers can you take that chance.

BBB I truly hope you can find something to hang onto.

More hugs

Lyn

[John9]

LMR,

The comments you make are mine as well my wife and I weren't religious but I think she "wanted" to believe.  She had put some angels on the wall along with a picture after her Grandparents died within 2 weeks of each other in 2007. I have not to my knowledge ever had an experience that some claim comes after a death. What I do know is I am not willing to risk not ever having a chance to be with my soulmate again if I kill myself. I just so much want to believe that this can't be all there is. There is just too much suffering in the world that you want to hope for a better "afterlife". I know my childhood wasn't the best but I figured overall my life with my wife more than made up for the suffering I went through. I figured wrong because as far as I'm concerned Karma bit me in the ass. Now with the suffering I am going through I don't think it is even close to being "even". I said before we didn't do things for the reward but we didn't do things expecting to be punished either and it does feel like a punishment.

[LMR]

I have never thought that I was being punished. Life doesn't work like that, well, I don't think so, lots of bad people seem to have a wonderful time.

I have so far had no experiences since he died. I have struggled with the concept of nothingness since I was a child. I tried to find answers but I failed. I would like to believe there is more. I am just trying to keep an open mind and not give up hope.

[BBB]

Numerous things I've learned on being a part of this website. First and foremost has been just how many widows and widowers are out there. It is astonishing to me.

Second, is that we all feel differently about different topics. Religion, afterlife, punishment, whatever it is we all vary on beliefs and opinions. I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that losing a spouse sucks bad.

 

[John9]

LMR,

I am not going to know if I'm being punished unless I die and God says yes or no, I just know it feels like I am being punished for something. As far as the bad people having a wonderful time some people have no "cares" or whatever you want to call it. We were good people and cared about others and that is why it seems so wrong. I sadly have no hopes or dreams or aspirations for a future without my wife.

[John9]

BBB,

I am sorry if I have an opinion that offends anyone or if I make a statement that doesn't make any sense or if I ramble on and on. I will however fully agree that this SUCKS.

[BBB]

No, you're fine John. 

[John9]

BBB,

It's just I am sitting here right now with tears in my eyes trying to just make it through another terrible day. There is no difference from one day to the next except I miss her more each day. It just hurt so much.

[BBB]

Completely understand, I cried every day for 6-7 months. Sometime close to the 7 months time frame was the first time I went 24 hours without crying. Still do.

 

[John9]

BBB,

As I have stated before I wake up crying, I cry throughout the day, and go to bed crying. Stupidest things set me off and don't forget all the anger that comes too.

[BBB]

Yes, I've punched a fair share of walls in my house. Though, I try to save that for my punching bag in the basement.

[John9]

BBB,

As I stated I have fought to keep my emotions under control for 50 years and learned  when I was younger that will hurt the hands very badly if you hit the wrong spot. So I try to not hit anything but I will scream into the pillow which I did when I got out of the shower this morning and I scream into a pillow not to scare MIL or the cats. Also the neighbors might call the cops.

[LMR]

I still cry every day and I'm close to a year. Its hard to believe it has been so long and yes it truly sucks.

In the beginning I was planning things,  spreading his ashes, arranging a party for him (party rather than a memorial, I know he would prefer that). None of these things got done because of covid but it helped me through the first few weeks. From there it has all been downhill.

I am trying to pack up and leave to go and live with my sister but it is so hard to let go. There is that tiny niggle at the back of my brain that says that even though I haven't seen him he might be right here and how can I walk away from that.

[BBB]

I know that feeling LMR. I went to our old neighborhood where we used to live about an hour away. I went to tons of our old stomping grounds. Even when I went to Florida to visit family at Christmas, I had to go to the park where we first met. Your brain tells you that they just might be there. Doesn't make any sense...and I have her ashes in an urn yet there's this little voice that tells me to go and check places.

 

[John9]

LMR,

I don't know whether our "loves" are here at a place or here with us wherever we go because of what everyone says about being in our hearts. I would want to believe they are always going to be wherever "you" are for peace of mind.

[LMR]

BBB.  Nothing has made sense to me since that day. I haven't yet opened the box his ashes were returned in. I'm told it won't look like I expect it to and I'm not sure if I will collapse in a heap or just go numb. I had it all worked out, where I would take them but now after all this time I am doubting myself.

John9. Other people have told me that and I desperately want to believe it.

[John9]

LMR,

I placed my wife's ashes in a wooden urn with a picture frame on it, which I created a collage of the "smile that made my day" pictures through the years. I told my son I already ordered the same for me and he can decide what to do with us. I know that spreading ashes and burying them is just like the grief itself, it is personal and only you can decide when and how you will do it.

[tnd]

8 hours ago, BBB said:

Suicide is simply when the pain outweighs your coping abilities.

BBB: Thank you for providing those links. I haven't read them yet but I agree with this statement. If people were able to cope then they probably would not consider suicide. I think what my husband meant by it being a selfish act is that it would leave our loved ones with terrible sorrow and pain...like what we are going through right now. But we used to talk about it. I told him I wouldn't look at someone with ALS or some painfully terrible incurable disease as being selfish if they chose suicide. I wrestle with it but am not entirely against doctor-assisted suicide.  

[tnd]

6 hours ago, BBB said:

There is a saying which everyone knows and that is "Don't judge someone unless you've walked in their shoes". Well I take it a step further and say "Just don't judge"

BBB:  I've always tried to live by that statement. And then the pandemic happened. It has changed me. And I told my husband that because of our experiences, you never know, the other person might be going through the same thing and dealing with it differently. "Just don't judge". My mind is more open to people now. I don't know how my grief will change me. I'm sure it will. And I will be asking people to not judge me.   

[tnd]

9 hours ago, John9 said:

When her work had a memorial service for her some of her co-workers told me that she was very "proud" of how I took care of her and her mother and all I did for her. That made me "happy" in a very sad time.

John9:  It was nice that they had a service for your wife. They say services are for the survivors. Well, I don't know about that but I think it's good that you got to be there and hear them tell you that. I was very proud of my husband because despite all his health problems and the obstacles, even in just day-to-day life, he never gave up. And he did it all for us. And he use to tell me the same. I'd like to think he'd be proud of me now or is somehow behind me as I deal with my grief and upcoming move. 

[John9]

tnd,

I would also like to believe my wife is behind me or beside me while I go through this and I ask her all the time for some sign or to visit me. And yes the service they did for her was nice because I'm sorry to say sometimes she didn't think they cared or appreciated her even though she was there since 1989 and this showed that they did. Sadly she didn't get to see it in life.

[tnd]

1 hour ago, John9 said:

she didn't think they cared or appreciated her even though she was there since 1989 and this showed that they did. Sadly she didn't get to see it in life.

John9:  It is sad that she felt they didn't care or appreciate her. That would be hard to work somewhere for more than 30 years and not ever feel appreciated. She must have been a very driven and strong woman. She was probably glad to come home to you every day. You obviously did make her feel appreciated. I think your actions alone with taking care of her mother speaks volumes and also about how you felt towards your wife. Good solid happy marriage...and you had teamwork too! I don't know how we are to carry on when we are down one "team mate". I'm trying to find it deep within myself to gain just a little strength from my husband by thinking about what he'd do or think about things if he were in my situation here. I know he'd grieve and be in pain but I can't help but feel he'd find a way to keep going. And that's what I need to find...inside myself. 

[John9]

tnd,

I have said many times that my wife was my WORLD and I did everything I could for and with her. I know we had a good marriage and I have and will say again I loved her more each day than the day before and sadly that is why I now miss her more each and every day. I told her aunt recently that because I spent 35 years "getting" to the level of love I had it will take me 35 years to process this loss. We were a team and you are right it is hard when the team mate is gone. I don't feel strong anymore but I am trying to go as long as I can.

[tnd]

28 minutes ago, John9 said:

I told her aunt recently that because I spent 35 years "getting" to the level of love I had it will take me 35 years to process this loss.

John9:  I hope it doesn't take you 35 years but I do like what you said and agree with it. I was thinking the same thing. Took me a long time to find a man like my husband and we spent several years building a life together. Someone once told me that marriage is like an investment. Okay, I get that but to me it was much much more. And I reckon you feel the same way about your wife and the marriage you guys had. I don't think anyone can give me a timeline of when I will feel better or when the pain will ease up. Took me a long time to have the love and happiness I had with my husband, just might take me a long time if not longer, to cope and move forward. Right now, I don't even know the definition of moving forward. I guess the fact that I got up and got dressed today and dealt with some important emails was a move forward or small accomplishment, all considering. Definitely going to take some time. It's going to be a long haul from here to there...

[foreverhis]

7 hours ago, John9 said:

BBB,

I am sorry if I have an opinion that offends anyone or if I make a statement that doesn't make any sense or if I ramble on and on. I will however fully agree that this SUCKS.

Obviously speaking only for myself, John, but you haven't said anything that offended me.  And as for rambling on...Have you read some of my novel-length posts?  This is the place to ramble on any time and for any reason!

I agree with BBB that you're fine.  And of course I agree with you both that losing the love of my life sucks.  Actually, it's the worst thing that ever happened to me.

[John9]

foreverhis,

Thank you for the comments, I will say this is the WORST thing. Sadly this statement is relative to the time-frame in my life, as a 2 year old that lost his Mother or an 8 year old who lost his step-brother or an 18 year who lost his brother or.....I will hopefully NEVER experience anything else LIKE this because losing my SOULMATE has crushed me and I don't believe I will recover from it. I am totally surprised I haven't collapsed into a pile of nothingness but I think it is only MIL that is keeping me going and I am unsure how much longer I can keep that up.

[John9]

tnd,

It is "funny" but I told a clerk at the store the other day who knew my wife and asked how I was doing I said, "I am up and dressed". I used to have a shirt that said something like that but I had it as a joke not my LIFE. I also try to keep up with "stuff" but it seems like everything is just so slow and I am afraid of missing something and nobody will care about why. I am just unable to think clearly anymore and it takes forever to even write any response to the comments here, I type and read it and edit it and correct the spelling. All while trying to care for MIL and household things and legal stuff and......

[John9]

I was just HIT with the thought as to why maybe this is harder for me than some of the other losses I have had. I am as I have said an emotional person and as such when I do something I do it ALL IN. If I am happy I am HAPPY if sad I am SAD and when I fell in love I fell in LOVE. I had crushes when I was younger but this was my ONLY TRUE LOVE, MY FIRST TRUE LOVE, and MY SOULMATE and when I said MY EVERYTHING she was it. NOTHING else compared to her and NOTHING EVER WILL AGAIN. I just don't see me recovering from this and that isn't even the correct word I want to use but it's all I can think of right now. I hate that I KEEP waking up alive because this isn't a life.

[KayC]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:15 AM, LMR said:

So where do they go and if you killed yourself would you go to the same place or not? Without the answers can you take that chance.

I personally cannot imagine God punishing someone who is in such pain or mentally ill!  I don't see them as responsible at that point.  So in answer to your question, I think we'd be in the same place.  That said, I was raised in a very legalistic church that try as I might cannot shake off the "what if"" enough that I could not take that risk for myself.  The religious counselor that helped his family through it seemed to agree with me that Bobby is at peace now.

On 7/1/2021 at 10:15 AM, LMR said:

Its not really a case of wanting to die, just not wanting to be here without him.

That's what I concluded about myself too.  And with time I quit wanting to be dead.  It's justt the pain was SO GREAT!

23 hours ago, LMR said:

I have never thought that I was being punished.

Me neither.

[John9]

Today is a terrible day it is day 112 and 16 weeks since my wife died. Those numbers are not any particular significance to it being a terrible day just stating how long it has been. I do not know why some of the days are harder than others except that the weekends have been worse as a rule. She generally worked Monday through Thursday and was off Friday through Sunday so that was our time when I wasn't taking care of my friend. It is hard this weekend probably because it is a holiday weekend and she would have invited family over for a cookout and they would have come, now not so much. I cut the grass today because nobody else is here to do it and I have to keep the city from ticketing me. I wear radio headphones to drown out the noise and to distract my brain but since I have always listened to music the distraction factor doesn't really work anymore because I can relate just about any song to a memory and some really make me cry as I am cutting the grass. It really isn't any different cutting the grass or being in the house, I cry all the time it's just crying and operating "heavy" machinery  could be a little more dangerous and in public. It also makes it harder to avoid the snakes and frogs when I can't see them through the tears. There just seems to be more and more triggers every day and more and more tears every day. I know some say it gets easier but for me I miss her more each day and it is actually harder than the days before. And yes unfortunately I do feel I am being punished as I said before nothing makes any sense.

Edited July 3, 2021 by John9
forgot a line

[tnd]

15 minutes ago, John9 said:

I cut the grass today

At least you did something before it grew any higher. And just the fact you were able to force yourself to do something is something. I read a comment on a site that deals with chronic illnesses that said "I got up, got dressed and made the bed. Just not all on the same day."  

 

20 minutes ago, John9 said:

I wear radio headphones to drown out the noise and to distract my brain but since I have always listened to music the distraction factor doesn't really work anymore

Today I found myself almost wanting to listen to music as I usually did but decided I am not ready. I am glad for memories but don't want to think about them yet.  

 

23 minutes ago, John9 said:

And yes unfortunately I do feel I am being punished as I said before nothing makes any sense.

I feel like I am being punished and tortured. My husband and I both felt that way these past few years but we had each other to talk about it. Now all the pain I ever felt in the past is nothing compared to the pain I feel over losing him. Now I'm trying to not think about the what if's and the why, I just want time to move by quickly. 

[annie123]

John,

I am so sorry for your loss.  Maybe because it is a holiday weekend, but today is a really bad day for me too.  Crying all day.  I miss my husband so much, it hurts.  Other than dialysis days, we spent most of our time together.  I miss his company, I miss feeling loved and safe with him.  I thought I was doing better, but not so much today.  I don't know what triggered this today but I am hurting.  I know that everyone on this site is hurting as well and I am so sorry for all your pain too.  

[foreverhis]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:40 PM, John9 said:

It is hard this weekend probably because it is a holiday weekend and she would have invited family over for a cookout

Yeah, even though 4th of July doesn't have the same depth of triggering as the winter holidays, it can still be filled with painful memories.  We used to spend several days each year with our best friends.  When all the children were grown or old enough to have plans of their own, 4th of July was the first weekend we had that was just the adults.  It seemed so weird after 15 years of varying numbers and ages of kids that it jarred us to realize we could make grown up plans and stay out late (by then we didn't want to--but we could have).

But the reason that July 4 is so hard for me and especially our daughter is that it was the last day she was able to be with her wonderful dad.  Sometimes I think John kept hanging on and trying so long was to make sure he got to spend time with our girls.  The timing worked out that 2 days later, we decided on comfort care and then home hospice.  And so of course, the week leading up to July 9 continues to be so painful for me.

I've stopped asking "When will this get easier?" because I don't think it does.  I am finding it less crushing though.

[SoVerySad]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:27 AM, KayC said:

Try not to look at others' journeys or how long it takes.  When I first lost my husband I thought, "I could live another 40 YEARS without him!"  The thought terrified me (and I have GAD), the anxiety roared!  I learned to take one day at a time.  Just do today, tell yourself, "I can do today."  Tomorrow you get up and do it again. 

This is what I have been trying to do, and it has only been a month for me. One day at a time. I don’t want to be gone, I want him to come back. Which of course is impossible but I can’t help wanting it. So I just get through each day.

[SoVerySad]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:38 PM, John9 said:

LMR,

I don't know whether our "loves" are here at a place or here with us wherever we go because of what everyone says about being in our hearts. I would want to believe they are always going to be wherever "you" are for peace of mind.

I believe they do stay with you and try to guide or protect you. It helps me to believe that.

[jwahlquist]

11 hours ago, John9 said:

Today is a terrible day it is day 112 and 16 weeks since my wife died. Those numbers are not any particular significance to it being a terrible day just stating how long it has been. I do not know why some of the days are harder than others except that the weekends have been worse as a rule. She generally worked Monday through Thursday and was off Friday through Sunday so that was our time when I wasn't taking care of my friend. It is hard this weekend probably because it is a holiday weekend and she would have invited family over for a cookout and they would have come, now not so much. I cut the grass today because nobody else is here to do it and I have to keep the city from ticketing me. I wear radio headphones to drown out the noise and to distract my brain but since I have always listened to music the distraction factor doesn't really work anymore because I can relate just about any song to a memory and some really make me cry as I am cutting the grass. It really isn't any different cutting the grass or being in the house, I cry all the time it's just crying and operating "heavy" machinery  could be a little more dangerous and in public. It also makes it harder to avoid the snakes and frogs when I can't see them through the tears. There just seems to be more and more triggers every day and more and more tears every day. I know some say it gets easier but for me I miss her more each day and it is actually harder than the days before. And yes unfortunately I do feel I am being punished as I said before nothing makes any sense.

Sorry you had such a rough day.  For me, when I feel the need to talk to Ryan, feel especially sad and miss him or just need to let my emotions out……..I write in a journal that I started after he passed away.  I needed an outlet and my therapist suggested that I try writing.  I don’t do so as often as I would like because I don’t always have the journal with me but I do try to use it as a tool to help me work through the toughest days.  

[John9]

tnd,

Sadly, the time does anything but move quickly. I have stated before the time since my wife died is the longest time period in my "life" it is like being on death row waiting for the final countdown. I don't know how much more I can handle.

[John9]

annie123,

I haven't really had any moments where I haven't missed her and as I told my son when I said I missed her, he said he did too. I said you saw your mother 1-2 times a month, I was with her for 35 years and she was ripped away from me in an instant and it hurts so much I can't stand it. I miss EVERYTHING about her and woke up this morning to that very thought. The hugs, the kisses, the looks, EVERYTHING. The triggers are out of nowhere and for no reason other than my brain REMINDING me that she died in case I FORGOT.

[John9]

foreverhis,

I understand the concept of things diminishing over time, as I said I have had many losses over the years but nothing in terms of this kind a loss. I don't see me being able to process this very well to get there. I think part of the problem I have is as the time passes the few people who were here for me are moving further away. I didn't want to be alone at this part of my life and here I am.

[John9]

SoVerySad,

I am sorry for your loss. I do want to believe my wife is here with me, but it is hard when I can't see or feel her. I know that she is in the "pieces of my broken heart" and as long as I can "remember" her she is with me. I had tried to post earlier and lost the internet so my response is not quite what it was and I don't fully remember what all I said but this is the basic part of the response.

[John9]

jwahlquist,

I have been writing in "journals" since the first days even before I signed up here. Actually I use the notebooks that we had purchased for my wife and her tracking of her work "numbers" I am on journal 6 and I had read about doing it to vent and that is what I do both there and here. The reason I come here is because my journals can't answer me and the answers I receive from here do actually help me. It does help to know I am less crazy than I thought I was with how I am doing. I don't think I will ever be able to fully process what happened and will be still doing it when I finally die. I don't want to live like this and don't know how I am going to keep going through all of this.

[KayC]

16 hours ago, John9 said:

Today is a terrible day it is day 112 and 16 weeks since my wife died.

I'm sorry you have so much heat esp. while working!  I hope you have A/C at home!

11 hours ago, foreverhis said:

But the reason that July 4 is so hard for me and especially our daughter is that it was the last day she was able to be with her wonderful dad.

I'm sorry, thinking of you both as you get through this day. 

[foreverhis]

On 7/2/2021 at 5:05 AM, John9 said:

I told a clerk at the store the other day who knew my wife and asked how I was doing I said, "I am up and dressed". I used to have a shirt that said something like that but I had it as a joke not my LIFE.

Indeed.  I came up with variations of that because I couldn't stomach saying "fine" anymore.  I still do that.  I don't spew my really bad days all over the place, but I refuse to pretend that everything is just dandy all the time either.

[John9]

foreverhis,

I have to say that very few people actually know me, so very few actually know that my wife died. When the "generic" how are you is put out there I figure that they don't care they are just making conversation. The only people that really care already know when they ask me what the answer will be, TERRIBLE. I read the book "It's OK that you're not OK" and the truth is most people don't know what to say. And what can I say, how do you think I feel? my wife is still dead. Grief response is not really something we are told how to respond "correctly" it is awkward at best. It is sad because we will all probably have someone really close to us die and need the people close to us give us support. If I am an example of the feeling of abandonment after  the death then we need to all do better. I have gotten more support from relative strangers than from so called friends and family. A physical therapist who worked with my friend who died in January and I don't really know has called me 3 times since my wife died and my friend's Doctor texted me but my wife's Doctor never acknowledged her death and he was the one who sent her to ER and yes his office knows she died. I am just saying the grieving people left behind need some help and yes I appreciate the people here because WE do UNDERSTAND what it's like to be "ignored" or "forgotten" and sadly it's like all of my wife's friends and family have forgotten her. I know that maybe I am just taking everything so personal but this is how I feel. I can't call them out over it because they have to deal with it as I do and like I said all grief is personal and however they are dealing it is only personal to them because they left me out of it.