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Here's another cliche/phrase I hate


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For me the grieving is more from the emptiness and loneliness of not having my wife with me anymore. I do have the guilt grieving but it's not as strong. That I should have done more to help with her getting diagnosed earlier, that I should have taken her back pain more seriously, etc. Also that I should have spent more time with her, done more things with her. She used to tell me that she wanted to do things now that she could because later on , she might not be able to do anything. She was right. Travelling was the main thing she wanted to do more of, but with me worried about work, it was rare that we travelled abroad. I don't think that there really should be successive stages to grieving. Everyone more or less has the same feelings when losing their partner, but everyone deals with those feelings in their own ways. All I know is that this grief is more than I can bare at times, so it's not easy. For any of us.

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On 1/14/2021 at 12:28 PM, RainyPNW said:

Widower2, I just read your webpage. Everything you said is so true, especially the “THE INFAMOUS "FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF". Thank you so much for putting this together. 

 

On 1/14/2021 at 12:57 PM, Elsa said:

I was asked a couple of days ago by one of my closest friends « so, the 5 stages, which one are you at? »... They don’t understand how insensitive and cruel this feels - I know they don’t mean to be horrible just inquisitive but yes @widower2 reading your website I agree so much with it... my number one overriding emotion is guilt, none of those others. That guilt is what comes rushing back anytime I catch a wave of grief. Things should have, could have been different for him and I could have made a difference if I had paid more attention.

You're both very welcome and thank you for the shout out, it is VERY appreciated. I put that together but never really know who has or hasn't seen it and if it's really helped anyone, so it's nice to know in at least a few cases it has. :) Of course at the time I felt like "ooooh I have all these great insights," foolishly not realizing most if not all of what I said has been said before in one way or another, lol. But it was cathartic for me to make it. I know my beloved very much lived by helping others, so I think she would like it too and be glad to know it helped someone.

 

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4 hours ago, Maria_PI said:

And it’s striking how different our grief is about my dad. I don’t have guilt about my dad, just profound love and sorrow. Her grief is mostly guilt and bouts of depression.

This is so true, and thank you because it reminds me that I should think of how my son is going through the grief for losing his mom, while I am focusing on my own grief. Though he is a young adult, I am his father and the shoulder for him to lean on. I need to be strong, especially in front of my son. Maybe that could be a motivation to help us going to through this a bit easier, if any.

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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stages-of-grief_b_4414077
The 5 Stages of Grief debunked
The Five Stages of Grief debunked

For those who find comfort in the "5 stages" great.  But for those struggling with it, please understand she wrote it to the dying NOT as a GRIEF handbook!

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12 hours ago, RainyPNW said:

This is so true, and thank you because it reminds me that I should think of how my son is going through the grief for losing his mom, while I am focusing on my own grief. Though he is a young adult, I am his father and the shoulder for him to lean on. I need to be strong, especially in front of my son. Maybe that could be a motivation to help us going to through this a bit easier, if any.

I'm going to be just a little contrary here.

Absolutely it's important for you to be there for your son.  But because he is a young adult, I believe it is equally important for him to be there for you, for the two of you to support, comfort, and care for each other.  It can only be good for him to see that his dad needs him too.  As a young adult, he is still learning about the hard parts of life.  It's possible that you showing just how much you need him will allow him to reach out help you.  And feeling like he is helping his dad may be a good thing for him right now.

While there's nothing wrong with being strong in front of your son, I urge you to let him see your pain and grief as well.  It's so important for him to understand that it's okay for a man to fall apart sometimes, to cry even.  He must know deep down how much you are hurting.  Please let him see that part of your grief too.  My concern is that if he only sees you "putting on the brave face," he will think that is how he must act as well.  If you only show the "I am strong" part, he might have a harder time reaching out to help you.

Of course losing your beloved wife and him losing his mom are not the same.  But you have lost the same woman and that's a starting point for you to share.

As always, that's just my opinion.  Every family, every person, is different.

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13 hours ago, foreverhis said:

My concern is that if he only sees you "putting on the brave face," he will think that is how he must act as well.  If you only show the "I am strong" part, he might have a harder time reaching out to help you.

That is true. Thanks for your thoughts from a different perspective. Actually in the first week I was crying so hard every day and he was the one comforting me, arranging services, doing housework and making meals. I was so devastating and didn’t think about his grief... I think you are right that we should express our true emotions and support each other, instead of hiding our pain.

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On 1/15/2021 at 8:46 PM, widower2 said:

Beat me to it. Well said. 

Thank you.  And thank you to Kay too.  I honestly hate that men are taught to always be stoic.  They can be strong, manly, protectors, and providers and still be sensitive enough to show when they are hurting and need help.  My John was that way sometimes.  Though he didn't cry often, when he did he never felt shame or that it was unmanly. 

When our beloved Keeshond Charlie, our "soulmate in a dog," died at 15, we were at the vet's office while she tried to save him.  He had an embolism and there was little to be done. John had carried him in and I could see the terror in his eyes.  We were in the operating theater with him with me calming him, holding the oxygen mask, and stroking his ears.  But my strong man was pacing back and forth crying.  Afterward, he comforted me and the cat, who mourned for at least 3 months.  Years later when our sweet tabby Penny, a daddy's girl from day one, died in his arms, he simply sat there holding her with tears streaming.  We had made the unbearable choice to take her in the next day for the vet to take her out of her pain (cancer that hadn't responded to treatment).  It was almost as if she knew he wouldn't be able to handle it and chose to leave us quietly with his love surrounding her.  In my eyes, that made him more of a man, not less.

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That for sure forever!! A strong tender man...as my Giorgio... He was so tender and sweet with animals and people...with special attention for the weakest! Truly the world is more dark without their light...

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11 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Thank you.  And thank you to Kay too.  I honestly hate that men are taught to always be stoic.  They can be strong, manly, protectors, and providers and still be sensitive enough to show when they are hurting and need help.  My John was that way sometimes.  Though he didn't cry often, when he did he never felt shame or that it was unmanly. 

When our beloved Keeshond Charlie, our "soulmate in a dog," died at 15, we were at the vet's office while she tried to save him.  He had an embolism and there was little to be done. John had carried him in and I could see the terror in his eyes.  We were in the operating theater with him with me calming him, holding the oxygen mask, and stroking his ears.  But my strong man was pacing back and forth crying.  Afterward, he comforted me and the cat, who mourned for at least 3 months.  Years later when our sweet tabby Penny, a daddy's girl from day one, died in his arms, he simply sat there holding her with tearing streaming.  We had made the unbearable choice to take her in the next day for the vet to take her out of her pain (cancer that hadn't responded to treatment).  It was almost as if she knew he wouldn't be able to handle it and chose to leave us quietly with his love surrounding her.  In my eyes, that made him more of a man, not less.

Boy did this hit home...when we put her dog down that she had since her kids were little and when I first met her and I got to know well for years when we were going out and also got very close to, it was really hard for both of us, we were both in tears. And when she got another dog, one she almost didn't get and was probably going to be put down but I helped her to get and we again both got very close to...after she passed, he was like a lifeline that I clung to in those horrible days from hell afterwards. We got even closer and also he was the last tangible link I had to her. Two years ago I took him to ER in the middle of the night when he started gagging for no apparent reason (he'd been sick most of that year). I paced literally all through the night while they tried to save him. When they had to put him down I really, really regressed from dealing with her loss. It almost like was starting over. Bed time was always hard, but without him it again became all but unbearable. And again "friends" were nowhere to be found. 

Any person, man or woman, who has a problem feeling sorrow for losing a pet or doesn't do all they can (within reason) to help that pet if they get sick, should never own a pet more biologically advanced than a cockroach. That's not a "man," that's an ahole.

.Frankly I'll take an animal over a person for company most days. They are completely honest. No games, no attitudes, no BS

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13 hours ago, widower2 said:

When they had to put him down I really, really regressed from dealing with her loss. It almost like was starting over. Bed time was always hard, but without him it again became all but unbearable.

Of course you did.  He was a living, loving part of your life together.  Losing that link would make the nights especially painful.  My heart hurts for you.

13 hours ago, widower2 said:

Any person, man or woman, who has a problem feeling sorrow for losing a pet or doesn't do all they can (within reason) to help that pet if they get sick, should never own a pet more biologically advanced than a cockroach. That's not a "man," that's an ahole.

.Frankly I'll take an animal over a person for company most days. They are completely honest. No games, no attitudes, no BS

Agreed.  We had so hoped that treatment would put Penny into remission.  We were able to afford that because we had bought pet health insurance way back when it was first available and pretty inexpensive, figuring that we insure our health so why wouldn't we insure theirs.  And it did help give her more months, but once she started to go downhill again, we knew we were out of options.  When we had to start helping her to the litter box and could see in her eyes that she hurt and didn't understand what was happening, it was time.  The funny thing is that I was the one who wanted to bring her into the family in the first place.  Like a kid, I told him I'd do the messy stuff like the litter box, so please can we get her?  He said okay, let's bring her home.  Within 24 hours, they had bonded deeply.  She loved the whole family and even the dog, but along with our daughter and my baby sister, she was his girl.

He was a man who cared deeply for those in his life.  He was also discerning, believing like you and I do, that animals are often better company than most people.

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Do I ever agree with Wiidower on this!  And foreverhis, I can relate.  I've experienced the loss of 24 cats and dogs in my lifetime.  Plus parakeets, pigeons and chickens when I was young.  Each one so different.  Losing Arlie like to have killed me.  They broke the mold on him and it pains me that I will never experience another like him, he was so perfect for me.  I think my son knew I needed someone to keep me company, even if it's not my Arlie, and he got me Kodie, a two months old puppy born on my birthday.  I don't know what I'd have done this last year without him!  The isolation Covid has brought has been very tough for those of us alone.  

17 hours ago, foreverhis said:

He was also discerning, believing like you and I do, that animals are often better company than most people.

Agreed!

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I have a female cat...cats are not dogs! They are more indipendent,  they are badass sometimes...and she have a very feline temper...but when she comes to me looking for cuddles purring it's a moment of joy!

My love rescue her and adored her!

She was and is a great presence  in my life without him...

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On 12/27/2020 at 4:43 PM, foreverhis said:

Indeed I loathe, "It's what he would have wanted you to do."  My inner voice, which sometimes is my out loud voice as well, says, "You don't know what he would want for me, so please stop."  It's like they forget that I am the person who knew my husband best, so if anyone would "know" what he wanted me to do, it would be me.  And as if I don't already know these things. 

I especially hate, "He'd want you to be happy."  Well, of course we always wanted each other to be happy.  But he'd also know that it would be impossible to be truly happy without him. 

Even though well intentioned, I find those specific cliches condescending and hurtful.  I don't respond angrily, but I try to make it clear that it is inappropriate to me.

People say that because they have absolutely no idea what to say. But it would be so much better if they didn’t say anything at all instead. I used to get livid ( in my head) when people would say that to me. Exactly like you said, how in the world do they know better than me what he would have wanted me to do. I think that most probably even he didn’t know what he would have wanted me to do if I were left behind like this. Because even he never thought this would happen. It’s been three years where a lot of people have stopped talking about him. It hurts so bad. I guess everyone thinks it’s been long enough and nobody really gets that you never ever get over grief. You just learn to pretend better. 

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4 hours ago, Shirin2027 said:

But it would be so much better if they didn’t say anything at all instead.

I agree.  It's best if they just listen and care instead of trying to fill the void with words, most of which are the wrong things to say.

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10 hours ago, Shirin2027 said:

People say that because they have absolutely no idea what to say. But it would be so much better if they didn’t say anything at all instead.

It depends on the specifics, but overall I respectfully disagree, having had people I thought cared about me who said.....nothing. No phone call, not even a token card. Even if they'd called and said something stupid, that would have beat the hell out of being completely ignored, as if I were gone too. Again I suggest people try to keep the intent in mind, not the bumbling words that come out.

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11 hours ago, widower2 said:

It depends on the specifics, but overall I respectfully disagree, having had people I thought cared about me who said.....nothing. No phone call, not even a token card. Even if they'd called and said something stupid, that would have beat the hell out of being completely ignored, as if I were gone too. Again I suggest people try to keep the intent in mind, not the bumbling words that come out.

I get your point totally. When I think back upon it, it’s better that people at least try to say something to show that they care. What I really meant was they don’t just say something for the sake of it and not really meaning it. Reiterating on what you said, If we just understand where they are coming from and not their literal words, it helps. 

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16 hours ago, widower2 said:

It depends on the specifics, but overall I respectfully disagree, having had people I thought cared about me who said.....nothing. No phone call, not even a token card. Even if they'd called and said something stupid, that would have beat the hell out of being completely ignored, as if I were gone too. Again I suggest people try to keep the intent in mind, not the bumbling words that come out.

Widower, when we say it'd be better to say nothing at all, we mean it'd be better if they SAID nothing rather than the stupid cliches (ie it's God's will, etc), but DO show up, be there, listen, care, maybe extend a hug.  I've had people say some pretty awful things.  If one can't do better than that, yes, stay home.  Most did not bother showing up, calling, etc, NOTHING!  These people were supposed to be our best friends!  No excuse!  It rewrote my address book, totally.  I'm sorry that was your experience.

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