Members Popular Post foreverhis Posted September 22, 2020 Members Popular Post Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Hi everyone. We all know how television, movies, books, etc. typically get it wrong when it comes to grief, especially the loss of our soulmates and partners. Of course, none will get it exactly right because it is, after all, fiction and entertainment. A friend suggested I try a BBC drama series that's been on for more than 20 years. I've been enjoying it quite a bit. At the beginning of season 9, Leo, the "boss" of the group of pathologists, loses his wife and daughter in a hit and run. Of course, this being television, we discover their deaths relate to the story lines. His job gives him the excuse to take matters into his own hands, butt in, and so forth. At the end of the episode, when suddenly the case is over and there's no way to hold it back, he stands alone in a favorite park overlooking the city and loses it just like we do. As I was watching, I was thinking, "Great. Now the next episode will be him grieving and then moving on and dating." I was wrong. Months later, he's only been back from leave for several weeks and is behaving very much like we might. What struck me even more was a conversation at around 6 months that he had with a colleague and friend, Harry, who had called him out for his erratic, angry, unpredictable behavior because it could affect court cases. Harry and another pathologist Nikki had been giving Leo unasked-for advice and kind of pushing at him to "open up." He laid into them and told them to back off. Later, they had a conversation that really hit home. Here's a part of it: Leo: I'm sorry. I haven't been, a...very pleasant, or a helpful person to be around recently. Harry: We know what you've been going through. Leo: Well, you don't, actually, but never mind about that. I wanted to come back to work, I needed to do things. And that's why I'm here and... There are bad days, good days, and there are bloody awful days. And I'm sorry that's tough on you and Nikki. Oh, I also know you're both more than capable professionals. At the same time, you have to understand that this is my grief. So yeah, go ahead, shout at me, um...disagree with me and tell me if I'm being impossible, But please don't tell me how to mourn. You can see why that bit of dialogue got me to thinking that once in a while, once in a blue moon, the writers get it right, and the actors make it believable. In fact, two seasons later, Leo is still adjusting, still wearing his wedding ring, still talking to them, especially his daughter, when he's alone. He told someone who said, "You're still sad." in a recent episode, "That never goes away." Anyway, I thought it was somewhat astonishing how spot on it was, at least mostly. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gail 8588 Posted September 22, 2020 Members Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Another TV series that 'gets it' is a Netflix show called "After Life". I feel pretty certain that at least one of the writers is speaking from experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators widower2 Posted September 22, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Thanks both, I will check out. I've long been disgusted with how completely inept Hollywood is with this topic. I've seen movie after movie, including some well regarded, which I thought completely sucked dealing with this topic. (There was one where some guy even won an oscar I think not too long ago) I'd long since given up on any doing the topic justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted September 22, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 58 minutes ago, widower2 said: I've long been disgusted with how completely inept Hollywood is with this topic. Exactly. That's why I was kind of stunned with how they're handling Leo's loss and grieving. On the show, more than 2 years have passed and he's able to smile and laugh some, he's more engaged in life and with his friends again, but he's not afraid to admit when something (say, the murder of a child) sets him back and brings up one of those waves of grief or anger we all know so well. Once in a while a peripheral character will bring up dating or something like that, but the writers are still making that a "not interested" for the character. And the actor who plays Leo is incredibly believable. There's a steadiness and understatement in the way he plays the character, especially once he became head of the department, yet he brings an intensity to his emotions and experiences that could have been overdone or seemed fake, but he gets it just right. The writers have even addressed the subject of Leo feeling guilty, even though of course he's not. There have been a couple of scenes where he's talked almost exactly the way we do about the "if only" questions and the way we can berate ourselves for not being able to save the most important person (or in Leo's case, people) in the world OTOH, it is British drama and, while not reality, it's far more real than US broadcast TV. One of the things we like about the English, Irish, Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand shows is that the actors are working actors, rarely "stars" and not "celebrities." They make a good living, work hard, are versatile, and generally look like people, if you know what I mean. Certainly most are attractive, but they're imperfect. Even the ones who are well known and/or have their own series will happily go do a guest episode on someone else's show. They go back and forth from stage to TV to movies. And they're generally intelligent as well. They tend to have good writers too. Sure, some of the stories are predictable, especially for the lighter shows, but so many are innovative or take a thousand year old trope and give it a twist that makes it interesting. It says something that I found myself crying right along with Leo as he stood alone looking out over the city at night while he broke down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators widower2 Posted September 23, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 I don't see where you said the name of the series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gail 8588 Posted September 23, 2020 Members Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 I think the show foreverhis describes is Silent Witness. I have not seen it. 32 minutes ago, widower2 said: I don't see where you said the name of the series? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jttalways Posted September 23, 2020 Members Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 9:04 PM, foreverhis said: He told someone who said, "You're still sad." in a recent episode, "That never goes away." This happened to me recently. Someone asked "Are you sad? You look sad." I replied "Yeah. I'm always going to be sad." Thanks for sharing those. I def want to check them out. A movie I watched recently on Netflix was "My Octopus Teacher" which I highly recommend. Even though it is about an octopus, it struck a nerve and I started crying uncontrollably like i havent cried since my husband passed. I thought it was a beautiful film. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted September 23, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Gail 8588 said: I think the show foreverhis describes is Silent Witness. I have not seen it. Correct. A warning: It is not a "pretty" show. It's forensic pathology British style. It's not all tidied up like we might do for US television. It can be gruesome and gory because the subject is that way. I did find out something interesting. When a victim's body is in the morgue for autopsy, we often see the whole body here and there (but no close up of genitals). But British broadcast standards do not allow live actors to be fully naked (and besides, they're going to be autopsied, which is also rather gruesome), so they make the most realistic dummies you can imagine. Also, the Brits aren't quite as hung up on partial nudity as we are. We don't see graphic sex scenes or anything, but by the same token, women don't wear their clothes in those scenes either. We might see a bit of this or that for a moment or maybe a flash of a bum. So if anyone finds any sort of nudity, whether real or constructed like in the autopsy scenes, offensive, this is not the right show for you. There's not much profanity in the dialogue, except where you think, "Well, yes, that's what this character would say." Nothing gratuitous. It's been really interesting to watch the characters develop and new characters move in and out. It's been even more interesting to watch the technology change. The first season was in 1996. I'm in about 2007 now and the show is still in production. Keep in mind that most British series do three to six double episodes per season, so it's the equivalent of 1/3 to 1/2 of a US broadcast season and about the same as many streaming shows on things like Netflix, Prime, or Hulu. If you like science and aren't squeamish, I definitely recommend it. It's not in my "Top 10 of all time" shows, but it's a solid, steady performer that stays interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators widower2 Posted September 24, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 12 hours ago, Jttalways said: A movie I watched recently on Netflix was "My Octopus Teacher" which I highly recommend. Even though it is about an octopus, it struck a nerve and I started crying uncontrollably like i havent cried since my husband passed. I thought it was a beautiful film. Funny how unrelated things can do that. Shows, movies, songs etc that aren't even necessarily about losing someone but touching in some way. 7 hours ago, foreverhis said: Correct. A warning: It is not a "pretty" show. It's forensic pathology British style. It's not all tidied up like we might do for US television. It can be gruesome and gory because the subject is that way. Thank you for that warning. I'm afraid that rules it out for me. Figures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted September 24, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, widower2 said: Thank you for that warning. I'm afraid that rules it out for me. Figures.... Ah well. That's why I always try to give warnings if a show, movie, book, or whatever might not be for everyone. I've been involved in the sciences my whole life and at one point seriously considered going to medical school, so I took many of the prep courses. As much as I love math and I am good at algebra, geometry, and trig, I couldn't handle the calculus and decided to go in a different direction. But I took all the anatomy, genetics, and other biological sciences, so not much bothers me in that regard, though I've been known to look away if something is really gory. In part I'm sure it's because I know this is fiction. Reality is different. For example, I went out to get the mail one day and realized there was a dead bird on the pavers. Three things were horrible about it: I hate to see animals hurt; I had to deal with it on my own, instead of asking my husband to do it as I have for the few times it's happened in the past; and I realized I was a bit squeamish about it, which unusual for me. Anyway, I'm sorry it's not for you, but I'll keep you up to date on Leo's story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SSC Posted September 24, 2020 Members Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 10 hours ago, widower2 said: Funny how unrelated things can do that. Shows, movies, songs etc that aren't even necessarily about losing someone but touching in some way. Thank you for that warning. I'm afraid that rules it out for me. Figures.... Rules me out too. I was interested in this character as you explained his depth of grief but there is no way I can handle gore. My husband died by suicide with a gun. I can’t barely even discuss weapons let alone see blood, war, the morgue... I love many British tv series but it is of a totally different aspect i.e. “The Great British Baking Show”, “ Gardener’s World”, “Great British Railway Journeys” And yes, at the age of 53 I’ve become my grandmother...I was always perplexed as to why she would watch nature shows on television. I’d Roll my eyes at her while I watched “Breaking Bad” or “The Walking Dead” now I get it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted September 24, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 6 hours ago, SSC said: My husband died by suicide with a gun. I can’t barely even discuss weapons let alone see blood, war, the morgue... This is definitely not a show for you. I'd think anything like that, whether fictional or real, would be incredibly traumatic. Leo's story line is peripheral in many ways, though it does inform his character's actions to some degree. I really was stunned with how right on they've been getting the whole thing and how sensitively the actor has portrayed it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted October 23, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 9/24/2020 at 6:05 AM, SSC said: I’d Roll my eyes at her while I watched “Breaking Bad” or “The Walking Dead” Well, I had to chuckle at this because I had no interest in either of those shows, in part because of the violence, drugs, and just "yuck" for me. Mind you, that's only my personal taste. I know many people who have watched and love both. As with music, I am extremely eclectic in my watching tastes. I'll sit down in the evening with a British mystery episode (though there are a few I don't care for at all), follow that up with some sort of musical performance (concert or show), and finish the night watching a particularly good The Big Bang Theory episode or two. If it's a long night for me, I might search around for something like an old episode of Tales of the City. I know what you mean about turning into our grandmothers. When Game of Thrones was the big thing, our daughter could not understand why her dad and I weren't into it. She said, "But you love fantasy and stuff like that." True enough, but the description of some scenes that we'd read simply turned us off to it. I would probably have happily watched it 20 or 30 years ago. Now? This grandma says, "No, thanks, but you go ahead and enjoy it." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted October 23, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 A little update on Leo. We're now about 4 years after and he has integrated his grief and loss into the life he's living now. He's stepped out into the world again, forever changed but much stronger than he was during the first few years. Leo is fast approaching 50 and isn't sure whether he's ready for the next step forward. At about 3 years into his grief, Leo met a woman at work, a colleague assigned to a case but from a different department and at the same level. They hit it off as friends. During the case, he invited her out to dinner, but it wasn't specified as a "date." So they're out having a lovely dinner and talking about work. She said something about how nice it is to be able to discuss things with him because she certainly couldn't do that with someone else. He replied, "Well, not on the first date, obviously." (Awkward silence broken by the waiter bringing the check.) They both reached for the check and Leo said, "I've got this." She replied, "You get the next one." (Awkward silence.) They looked at each other and Leo kind of sighed. He folded his hands on the table (so we could see he still wears his wedding ring). She knew he'd lost his wife and daughter, but he gave her the nutshell version of it and how it's affected him. He confessed that he's confused and unsure of himself, and tells her bluntly that he really doesn't know when or if he'll be ready. She graciously acknowledged his grief and said she knew she couldn't fully understand, but that she liked him regardless and was happy to have him as friend. A few months after that, Leo and she have become closer. After talking to his daughter (sometimes we see her as he does in his mind's eye; sometimes he speaks to an empty room), who tells him that they know he will love and miss them every day and will always be sad inside, but then advises him that maybe it's time to try to find some happiness too, he asked his friend out on a real date. Once they became romantically involved, he started taking small steps into embracing this new part of his life. It's working in part because his new love "gets" that he will always love, miss, and grieve for his wife and daughter. She doesn't minimize or belittle it, but instead encourages him to talk to her and wants him to keep their memory alive not just in his heart but with tangible reminders. I suspect that the next step for him will be to live with his new love, while continuing his personal journey. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators KayC Posted March 1, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted March 1, 2022 Reported spam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members foreverhis Posted March 1, 2022 Author Members Report Share Posted March 1, 2022 I'm going to go ahead and delete this morning's posts about the spam. Thanks to the moderators for handling it quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators widower2 Posted March 2, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 Never a shortage of losers in the world are there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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