Complicated situation - has grief affected my chance of a relationship? **TWO YEARS ON AN UPDATE**

[SimonFent]

SUMMARISED VERSION

***NB - I have added a new post at the end of this discussion updating the situation***

 

***Sorry this is going to be a long one, so a summarised version is: 

After years of being single (and not bothered by it) last September I met someone and made an instant connection with them and we became very close to the point we were discussing me moving up to be with her and help her raise her children. Then all of a sudden, literally overnight on Boxing Day, our relationship stopped when she found out her first love from years ago was dying.

He has since died and I am doing my best to help her deal with her grief and understand the situation and where she is coming from right now (we are still not together at the moment - just friends), but I am struggling too and would appreciate any insight from people who have dealt with grief or those close to them experiencing it.***

FULL STORY

For context I am a 40-year-old male, been single for a good four or five years and only ever had a couple of serious relationships and no children. No particular reason for this I don't think - I like to think I am a nice guy, reasonably ok looking, always put others first, etc, but it is just the way things have worked out.

Anyway last September, via a slightly bizarre set of circumstances, I met someone. She lives around 200 miles from me, is the same age as me and has two young children. We called and facetimed numerous times and immediately made an instant connection and it was obvious we both liked each other. In fact within a few days of making contact she said she fancied me and that this was unusual as she had had a serious man drought for a couple of years and she struggles to find guys she fancies.

We eventually met up for the first time a couple of weeks later, in mid-October, we met somewhere that was halfway between us and everything online translated into reality - we had a fantastic time, we both loved each others company and a few days later a card popped through my door from her saying "Always believe something wonderful is about to happen" - and she had written in it how much she enjoyed the date and how she couldn't wait to see me again.

Anyway over the next two months, in November and December, we met up a few more times - every time was fantastic, we had a lot in common and both loved each others company.

For Christmas my dad and I, along with a few other members of the family, go up to the Lake District. We stopped for a night on the way up and she met up with us, met my dad, he loved her and again we had a great time. We were calling, texting and videocalling during the entire week of Christmas - we were both saying we missed each other and that was a nice feeling for us both as we hadn't experienced that for a long time. She bought some lovely presents for me and evidently spent a lot of time and money selecting them. She suggested that on the way back from the Lakes I meet her and go back to hers and meet her girls for the first time. To prepare for this we suggested we all video call - me, her and her two girls, so we did and it went really well, she said the kids loved me.

So the day after Boxing Day (the day we had video called and talked about me meeting her girls, etc), I woke up and checked my FB Messenger and I had had a message from her saying she had had some devastating terminal news the previous night about someone very dear to her and she was struggling to process it. I tried to be as understanding as possible and asked if I could help, or if she wanted to speak and she said she was really sorry she just needed time to deal with it.

The next day she messaged me apologising again and saying she didn't feel she could continue with what we have as she had nothing spare to give. She went onto to explain that she had gone round for what she thought would be a normal catch up with her first love, they dated for four years 20 years ago, when he told her he was dying. She said it opened up all of these emotions she didn't realise she still had and that all she wanted to do is care for him, love him and look after him. She asked me to give her a week to get a grip on her emotions, the situation and how she was feeling.

It was tough, but I said I completely understood it must be a difficult situation for her and told her to take as long as she needed and to let me know when she had had time to digest everything and how she was feeling. I popped a little card in the post for her basically saying that I wouldn't judge her and would try and be there for her in whatever form she wanted no matter what she decided.

I got a message from her about a week after this all started, saying she had been spending time with her first love and they had talked about her moving into help with things. She said it felt normal and it was as if she had been waiting for this moment without knowing it. She even said she wanted to marry him and doesn't care that he is dying, she just wants to spend as much time with him as possible - saying she loves him so so much and he is the missing piece in her jigsaw. She apologised again and said it looks like they were heading into a relationship.

But to give a bit of context to this her first love lived around the corner from her for the past 20 years and had a child in the same class as her oldest daughter, she told me previously that she had seen him regularly over the past 20 years in the street, at school, they'd always been cordial, said hello and had a chat, but she had never had any feelings for him at all until he told her he was dying.

The day before he had told her he was dying she had also been round to see him, and he told her his girlfriend had left him. Directly after that we videocalled and she told me about this and she said how grateful she was for what we have and how she felt really good about our relationship - no mention of any feelings for him even though he had just told her he was single. Then the next day he asks her around again and tells her he is dying and boom! All these feelings come out. 

After she told me all this I asked her a question and said before this all happened with her first love, when we were speaking all the time, could she really see something long term between us? And she said "Yes I envisaged you moving up here and us bringing the girls up together."

The two of them were together for 11 weeks - he died in mid-March. She spent practically the entire time caring for him, rushing him to hospital, keeping his house clean, cooking for him, looking after him and his child, all at the same time as trying to run her own business and look after her two girls. She got zero out of it, apart from pain and grief.

Throughout the whole process I have been there for her - she gave me the option of walking away if I thought it would be too painful to just be friends. She told me she only really spoke to three people for support during this time - her mum, her best friend and me.

She is very emotional and this event, combined with lockdown, has affected her. She has been having counselling, and now almost three months after it happened does seem to show signs of making positive strides.

We speak pretty much every day, and the honest truth is that I would like to see if what we had between us in December, which was so promising to the point she suggested I meet her kids for the first time, could be resurrected.

I haven’t put any pressure on her for this - I’ve mentioned it just once, very briefly around two weeks ago asking if she would ever think about seeing if we could pick up on what we had back then. She basically said, she hadn’t thought that far ahead yet and that currently she felt like she would never date anyone again and that she couldn’t conjure up feelings from nowhere.

I know grief affects everyone differently and I wonder if all the trauma she has gone through this year has meant she has subconsciously put up barriers and is keeping me at arms length as her confidence in the future has been shaken and she is worried about getting too close to someone again?

Am I thinking too simplistically to think that we looked like we had something really promising before everything happened with this guy and that at some point she would want to see if we could pick up on it again? If things had been petering out between us I could write it off easily, but during December things had been getting better and better.

Do I just need to give her more time and space to get over this? Or should I write off the chance of us ever trying again and just be content with friendship?

This has affected me (probably in combination with lockdown) more seriously that I realised. When I Was 22 I watched my mum die of cancer, and as an only child, that was really tough, so I have experienced grief and loss, yet in some ways I have found all of this harder to deal with.

Any advice from anyone would be much appreciated and apologies for such a long post!

[KayC]

1 hour ago, SimonFent said:

she messaged me apologising again and saying she didn't feel she could continue with what we have as she had nothing spare to give.

She has made herself clear and there is nothing you can do to change it.  You can give her time and space but it's extremely unlikely to change her stance.  I'm on another site as well and in our "Loss of Love Relationship" it's almost entirely breakups due to one of them grieving.  Of the hundreds of threads, I recall only one who made it through intact.  I had this happen to me.  I'd encourage you to read the threads and posts there because it will show you that this is a common grief response and there is a pattern to all of these stories.  

My advice:  focus on your family/friends and be active.  I know it's painful and especially right now during this COVID-19 isolation.  I cried literally for several months but my house sure got clean!  My thought is this, I'd want someone to go through thick and thin with, not break up with me when things got hard because it's a guarantee in life that things will at some point, grief/loss included.  I know it seemed like everything was perfect but this has shown it not to be as perfect as first thought.  

To her credit, this isn't her fault, nor yours either.  This is not about you, although it affects you greatly, this is about grief and her particular coping.

1 hour ago, SimonFent said:

in some ways I have found all of this harder to deal with.

That's understandable, she affects your everyday life, your hopes, dreams, future. and it is an intimate relationship.  We expect to lose our parents someday although the finality is hard, but this is sudden and unexpected.

2 hours ago, SimonFent said:

just be content with friendship?

It's important to have a period of no contact, it helps the heart heal and brings clarification.  After several months if you can be friends without one secretly hoping for something else, then that can happen but if you use friendship to try to get her back, that can be a form of manipulation and not a place of respect.  Also be prepared for her to go through a period of not knowing her own mind and being all over the place.  Don't let it affect you as it can really yank you around emotionally!

https://www.griefhealingdiscussiongroups.com/forum/27-loss-of-a-love-relationship/

[Rhonda R]

If you can be just her friend, then do that.  If you cannot, move on.  Grief is a roller coaster of emotions, it is hard and it can take years.  The loss of a parent and the loss of a spouse are two completely different things.  She has made it pretty clear she still loved this man.  I'm blunt, so I'll apologize now.  She walked away from what she could have had with you for whatever she could get from him.  This wasn't a choice, it was how she felt.  She may be ready to have a relationship again but bringing it up right now, isn't helping the situation.  She may never date again.  So, you need to decide if you are going to wait around for possibly years for maybe.  You now realize there are people out there that you can connect with.  If you can be her friend, great.  If you can't. move on for now.  You never know what twists and turns life might take later.  My husband has been gone for two years and I can't even imagine being with someone else.  We weren't married for 30 years.  We were together for 8 years but he was it for me.  Time together does not dictate the depth of someone's feelings.

[SimonFent]

10 minutes ago, KayC said:

She has made herself clear and there is nothing you can do to change it.  You can give her time and space but it's extremely unlikely to change her stance.  I'm on another site as well and in our "Loss of Love Relationship" it's almost entirely breakups due to one of them grieving.  Of the hundreds of threads, I recall only one who made it through intact.  I had this happen to me.  I'd encourage you to read the threads and posts there because it will show you that this is a common grief response and there is a pattern to all of these stories.  

Thanks Kay, I do appreciate you taking the time to reply. I've had a quick look at the "Loss of Love Relationship" forum and can see what you mean about breakups due to people grieving - i will read and post there, thank you (if I post there you don't have to reply to that one as well!).

Maybe I should have had a period of no contact, but I was caught in a difficult situation as I genuinely wanted to offer her support, rather than just block her out.

I have at all times tried to be as respectful to her as possible, I have never placed any blame on her and have always said we cannot control our emotions, so she was just doing what she felt was right. I've tried to remove myself completely emotionally from the situation whenever we speak and it is something we have barely mentioned in person/over the phone and only rarely via messages.

I guess I have never experienced anything like this, and I cannot understand how someone can feel strong enough to suggest they see a future with someone to a few months later not wanting anything, but as you point out it seems a common thing.

I appreciate your time and insight - thank you.

[SimonFent]

24 minutes ago, Rhonda R said:

She has made it pretty clear she still loved this man.  

Thanks Rhonda.

The one thing that really confused me about this, was on Boxing Day we videocalled and she told me that he had asked her to go over and he had told her his girlfriend had broken up with him. She started telling me that made her really grateful for what WE had and how she wanted to tell people she was in a relationship with me. No mention of any feelings for him. 

It was only the next day when he called her over again and told her he was dying that she said these feelings came out. So I question whether it really was love, or the shock/grief of finding out someone who was an important part in your life was dying? As they were only together for 11 weeks - it was obviously not long enough to know. She also identifies as an Indigo Adult, something she told me very early on, so I think she reacted differently to how many people would.

She has since told me that she doesn't think her feelings for him were reciprocated in the same way back, and that in the 11 weeks they were together she asked him to marry her twice and both times he said no, and that she wanted to move in with him permanently and he said no.

If she were want to date again, I can't understand why she wouldn't at least want to see if what we had and what seemed to be going so well but be worth looking at again. But as you and Kay have pointed out - I probably don't understand grief and am not in her shoes, so it is difficult for me to try and get my head around it.

It is just a difficult time to move on at the moment as we have so much time to sit and think about everything and can't really get out and see anyone!

Just for info my mum and dad were together for 40 years - from when my mum was 16 and my dad was 18. When my mum died was Dad was devastated and said he would never meet anyone else like her. Three years later he met another lovely lady and they have been together for almost 15 years now. You never know what is around the corner, so don't rule it out completely.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

[foreverhis]

On 6/1/2020 at 6:43 AM, SimonFent said:

She said it felt normal and it was as if she had been waiting for this moment without knowing it. She even said she wanted to marry him and doesn't care that he is dying, she just wants to spend as much time with him as possible - saying she loves him so so much and he is the missing piece in her jigsaw. She apologised again and said it looks like they were heading into a relationship.

Hello.  I'm sorry you are going through such a painful time.  Our members here are always ready to listen and help when we can.  They've given you some good advice and reasons for respecting her wishes, stepping back, and letting her do what feels right to her now.  I'm going to suggest one more.

If some day down the road (and it will likely be a long while from now), she feels ready to open her heart again and if you still feel about her the way you do now, then she will remember that you respected and loved her enough to let her go.  It may be that she will contact you and ask you to be a friend.  If you can do that with no other expectations, then it could be good for both of you as you will understand the hard choices she had to make.  Or it may be that she tells you her heart is ready to let in new love and then it will be up to you to decide if it's right.  Only time will tell. 

For now, you must respect her wishes, no matter how much it hurts your heart.

Now, the cynic in me wonders if her old love is clinging to her because his girlfriend left him and he was alone with a terminal condition.  I've had that happen with a couple of friends over the years.  It's hard to know how this will end up for her.  But either way, her old love's situation has brought up all kinds of emotions that she must deal with all on her own.  Let her do that, no matter how long it takes or what she ultimately decides.

I urge you to spend time with friends, try new activities, and when you're ready, consider letting your own heart open to other possibilities.  It will be hard and it will take time, but that is the only thing that ultimately helps.

[SimonFent]

2 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Now, the cynic in mean wonders if her old love is clinging to her because his girlfriend left him and he was alone with a terminal condition.  I've had that happen with a couple of friends over the years.  It's hard to know how this will end up for her.  But either way, her old love's situation has brought up all kinds of emotions that she must deal with all on her own.  Let her do that, no matter how long it takes or what she ultimately decides.

Thank you for your kind message.

I think that was what he did. He got scared about the thought of being on his own with a terminal illness and called her round to tell her in the hope she would react how she did. He got someone to care for him and look after him in the last few months of his life. I should add though that when they got back together she had hopes of him living for at least a few years as the cancer he has was untreatable but slow growing. It was only when it spread to his bones he suddenly deteriorated and died.

We do speak pretty much every day, and it is usually her who iniatiates the phone call or video chat, not me.

As you say I must let her deal with this as best she can and try and get on with my own life. I am not going to wait up for her, but if in all honesty in a year or twos time we were both single and the idea of continuing with our relationship became a possibility I would probably want that (although I guess my mind could change in that time!).

Thank you again.

[foreverhis]

19 hours ago, SimonFent said:

We do speak pretty much every day, and it is usually her who iniatiates the phone call or video chat, not me.

As you say I must let her deal with this as best she can and try and get on with my own life. I am not going to wait up for her, but if in all honesty in a year or twos time we were both single and the idea of continuing with our relationship became a possibility I would probably want that (although I guess my mind could change in that time!).

Thank you again.

You are entirely welcome.  I've found that it's good to talk here because in many ways the members are unbiased.

I think I had misunderstood (not that unusual for me since my love died) and thought he was still alive.

Let me ask you a couple of things.  How do you feel after your calls/video chats with her?  Does it make you feel worse or better?  If it is causing you more pain right now, then you may have to gently tell her that.  I'm sure she understands how hurt and confused you have been.  While talking to you may help her, it's equally critical for these talks to be good for you.  Clearly she is not ready to go back to your relationship, which is understandable.  But neither should she expect you to help her through her pain and grief at the expense of your own emotional well being. 

If it were me, I'd let her know that I care about her and even still love her, but think she should figure things out and process her loss on her own for now.  I'd tell her flat out, though kindly, that the daily chats are too much.  IMO, it's unfair of her to constantly remind you of what you had and how you lost it.

The bottom line is that you need to protect your own heart.  And of course, in a year or two or however long it is, if she is ready to start again, then you can decide if you are too.  You're quite right that time brings changes we don't always expect.  Absolutely you need to figure out your own life, try to move forward, and let your life be your priority.  Time will take care of the rest.

 

[SimonFent]

4 hours ago, foreverhis said:

Let me ask you a couple of things.  How do you feel after your calls/video chats with her?  Does it make you feel worse or better? 

I actually feel better now after we speak. There was a time a couple of months ago when I felt worse after speaking to her more often than not, but she slowly seems to be emerging from the fog of grief and she is more positive now in general and I am more positive after talking. Initially when we spoke it was more her talking about her grief and how upset she was, whereas now, whilst she still has down days, it is more of a chat about what we have both been up to, how we are doing. We have just sat and played a board game against each over a video call for 30 minutes and it was really nice.

Your advice though is very wise, and I think as recently as a month ago probably mirrored how I was feeling. If things starting sliding back the other way I definitely will bear in mind the need to protect my own heart.

Hope you are doing ok. My mum died in 2001 - at which point my mum and dad had been together for 40 years, my dad was devastated and said he would never meet anyone else. Three years later he met a lovely lady and 15 years on they are still together and he is as happy as he has ever been.

[KayC]

19 hours ago, foreverhis said:

If it were me, I'd let her know that I care about her and even still love her, but think she should figure things out and process her loss on her own for now.  I'd tell her flat out, though kindly, that the daily chats are too much.  IMO, it's unfair of her to constantly remind you of what you had and how you lost it.

I so agree!  That's why we have a period of no contact, it aids your healing, it actually preserves what feelings remain but you may find they take a different form that would make it healthier for being friends on down the road.  As it stands right now, without a no contact period of at least a few months, I don't see how this is sustainable.

[Rhonda R]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 12:37 PM, foreverhis said:

Clearly she is not ready to go back to your relationship, which is understandable.  But neither should she expect you to help her through her pain and grief at the expense of your own emotional well being. 

This is true.  If she is doing this, she is doing to you, the same thing her ex did to her.  Are you really trying to be there for her or are you secretly hoping that she will realize again how wonderful you are and how wrong she was?  There would be a part of me hoping for that.  If that does happen, would you have trust issues in the future?

[SimonFent]

On 6/3/2020 at 1:49 PM, KayC said:

On 6/2/2020 at 6:37 PM, foreverhis said:

If it were me, I'd let her know that I care about her and even still love her, but think she should figure things out and process her loss on her own for now.  I'd tell her flat out, though kindly, that the daily chats are too much.  IMO, it's unfair of her to constantly remind you of what you had and how you lost it.

I so agree!  That's why we have a period of no contact, it aids your healing, it actually preserves what feelings remain but you may find they take a different form that would make it healthier for being friends on down the road.  As it stands right now, without a no contact period of at least a few months, I don't see how this is sustainable.

Maybe you are right, I don't know. On the whole she is over the worst of it, and so am I think. I think that regardless of what happens though, at this point we will always be at the very least good friends.

[SimonFent]

6 hours ago, Rhonda R said:

This is true.  If she is doing this, she is doing to you, the same thing her ex did to her.  Are you really trying to be there for her or are you secretly hoping that she will realize again how wonderful you are and how wrong she was?  There would be a part of me hoping for that.  If that does happen, would you have trust issues in the future?

Oh there is no doubt part of me hopes that when she is out of the emotional turmoil she wants to try again. I honestly don't think I would have trust issues in the future, as 1) that isn't in my personality and 2) she is unerringly honest.

But I was also really trying to be there for her, to help her through the death of someone she loved and also in the last couple of weeks she has basically found out that through COVID the business she bought for £55,000 three years ago is now worthless and she has essentially lost it all.

Maybe I am being stupid, but I just don't think it would be fair for me to walk away and let her cope with all of that on her own.

[KayC]

I wouldn't say you're stupid, just caring more about her than your own survival, I wish you'd guard yourself but you have to deal with this the way you feel best.  I wish you the best going forward!

[SimonFent]

12 hours ago, KayC said:

I wouldn't say you're stupid, just caring more about her than your own survival, I wish you'd guard yourself but you have to deal with this the way you feel best.  I wish you the best going forward!

Thank you Kay, I appreciate all the advice you have offered. All the best to you as well.

[SimonFent]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:03 PM, foreverhis said:

Now, the cynic in me wonders if her old love is clinging to her because his girlfriend left him and he was alone with a terminal condition.  I've had that happen with a couple of friends over the years. 

I should add that in the past couple of weeks she has told me that she does think her feelings for him were not fully reciprocated back, and that in their 11 weeks together she asked to move in with him and he said it was too soon, and she asked him to marry her twice and both times he said no. She has put it down to him having a terminal illness, but I think it probably backs up what you mention above.

In some ways that makes it even more frustrating. Obviously it is very sad that he has died, but if he was just doing this for his own means - so he wasn't alone rather than because he really loved her - he has effectively had a big effect on both her life and mine, because if this hadn't happened I am pretty certain her and I would still be together.

[SimonFent]

14 hours ago, KayC said:

I wouldn't say you're stupid, just caring more about her than your own survival, I wish you'd guard yourself but you have to deal with this the way you feel best.  I wish you the best going forward!

Sorry just one more thought Kay - you mention regarding having a period of no contact, in December she will be rowing across the Atlantic. That means she will literally be uncontactable for between 40 and 60 days. So that will give us a period of no contact and also a lot of thinking time for her about all kind of things, including relationships, love and grief, etc.

[foreverhis]

20 hours ago, SimonFent said:

Maybe I am being stupid, but I just don't think it would be fair for me to walk away and let her cope with all of that on her own.

I also would not say you're being stupid, not in any regular sense of the word.  Let's be honest, love sometimes makes us "stupid" in that our hearts and minds aren't always on the same page when it comes to emotions and relationships.

I would say you're being hopeful and caring.  But I think it will be good for you to have those 40 to 60 days of complete separation.  That time will likely help both of you focus on yourselves individually and also what you want out of your relationship going forward.  Introspection is a good thing, especially when emotions run deep and with the complications and confusions you've both been feeling.

It's possible that her time alone will allow her to fully process why her ex wanted her to be with him during those last weeks.  She may come to the conclusion that he really was using her feelings for him, their past, and his fear to keep her with him then.  She may even come to berate herself for it.  But those are things she'll have to work out on her own.  Clearly she feels bad for hurting you that way.  It will take time, and plenty of it, for both of you to figure out whether you want to come back together.  If you do, I urge you to take it slow and easy to make sure it's right for both of you.  Be sure you truly are committed to each other with the understanding that, while we all have pasts, hers came back to the present for a time.

Yours is a complicated situation, but that does not mean you and she don't have a future.  It's a cliche, but time really is the only thing that will help both of you.

[SimonFent]

On 6/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, foreverhis said:

It will take time, and plenty of it, for both of you to figure out whether you want to come back together.  If you do, I urge you to take it slow and easy to make sure it's right for both of you.  Be sure you truly are committed to each other with the understanding that, while we all have pasts, hers came back to the present for a time.

Yours is a complicated situation, but that does not mean you and she don't have a future.  It's a cliche, but time really is the only thing that will help both of you.

Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. I think the separation will do us good to work things out. It will be almost two months from when she leaves to row the ocean to when she gets back, so probably 40 to 45 days of complete no contact when she is out there in the middle of the ocean along side a week or so of limited contact either side when she is overseas.

I've been doing a bit of thinking in the past few days and before she and I met in person for the first time, when we were chatting on the phone/facebook, etc, etc, there was a common theme in some of her messages to me. For instance she mentioned to me:

• That after being emotionally numb for so long it was scary finding someone she connected with
• That it scared her - the hopes and dreams her brain was conjuring up before we had even met
• That it was scary letting herself emotionally get involved with me after pushing people away for years.
• That she was petrified of what might happen if we got on really well when we met - because of the distance, her kids, the fact she had forgotten what to do it had been so long since she loved anyone

I just wonder whether as a result of what happened to her earlier this year - with her first love dying combined with lockdown - those barriers she had let down to connect with me and those thoughts and fears she had put to one side when we met, have sub-consciously reemerged and she has put her emotions in a cage as a way of protecting herself from getting hurt again.

[KayC]

It sounds like she has more going on than just her lost love dying...she has a fear of connecting after so long being on her own.  I get that.  If she can give it a chance...only time will tell if she will.
While it's not fair to you for you to wait all that time to see...I hate for you to count on false hope, it is entirely up to you how you proceed.  It would prolong your healing to stay in limbo waiting for her to do something but to not  give it that chance could fuel your asking yourself what if for years to come...a very hard place to be in.  I still would opt for continuing your life, I've read hundreds of stories such as yours WITHOUT the complications of going into a relationship with her doubts, that did not make it following grief.  Statistics tell me a story but by the same token, I know all of us want to be that one exception.  But is it realistic to hope?  Only you can decide.

[SimonFent]

On 6/12/2020 at 2:49 PM, KayC said:

Statistics tell me a story but by the same token, I know all of us want to be that one exception.  But is it realistic to hope?  Only you can decide.

I get that, but I guess that is the nature of the way these type of forums work. People post with their problems looking for advice, people aren't going to post saying "It is so fantastic, I was having a bit of a rough patch with my partner after her mum/dad/sister/brother/best friend died, but it is completely smoothed over and now things are going better than ever", that probably does happen a lot but we don't know/don't hear about it.

Last week she officially wrote off her business she had paid $62k for four years ago. Since the start of March she had been paying someone else to run it and after the death of her partner and lock down she was signed off of work by her doctor until August. The effect of COVID and other issues had effectively rendered the business almost worthless and she was extremely stressed by the thought of trying to build it up again, especially in her current state and saw it as an impossible situation.

Since then she is like a different person - I can tell it has taken a weight off of her mind despite taking a financial hit. She is laughing and smiling again. She is much more positive and so much happier. We video call every evening before we go to sleep, for an hour or so and chat about anything and everything.

I am not holding out false hope, yes I'd like her to be in a place where she feels like she wants to try again, but I know that might not happen. But right now, seeing her and talking to her each day makes me feel happier.

[KayC]

5 hours ago, SimonFent said:

Since then she is like a different person - I can tell it has taken a weight off of her mind despite taking a financial hit. She is laughing and smiling again. She is much more positive and so much happier. We video call every evening before we go to sleep, for an hour or so and chat about anything and everything.

I am so glad to hear that!  I wish the best for both of you, together or separate!

[foreverhis]

On 6/25/2020 at 3:39 AM, SimonFent said:

I am not holding out false hope, yes I'd like her to be in a place where she feels like she wants to try again, but I know that might not happen. But right now, seeing her and talking to her each day makes me feel happier.

That is wonderful.  Your expectations seem to be realistic, you understand the complexities, and you have opened yourself up to a friendship that is beneficial to your well being.

[Rhonda R]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 5:39 AM, SimonFent said:

But right now, seeing her and talking to her each day makes me feel happier.

As long as this is the outcome, then it's right.  If it changes, I'm sure you will re-evaluate.  Good luck and I hope it turns out for you. 

[SimonFent]

I thought I'd give an update on this situation, as it is still something that affects me, despite it all starting about 16 months ago.

We still talk every day on WhatsApp Video, usually two or three times a day. She has made it quite clear she can never see us being anything more than friends because she says there is no attraction or chemistry from her side of things. 

She is still quite messed up, she has admitted that herself. Not just from losing her ex, but from a lot of other stuff that has happened in the past year (losing a business she had invested $70k due to COVID being just one thing).

She is starting to date again and it does hurt me to think about that.

I know probably the best thing to do would be, as some of you suggested, to cut contact right from the start but it hasn't been that easy in lockdown.

I live by myself and for most of the past year haven't really seen anyone, so having that regular contact with her has been both a blessing and a curse. A blessing as having someone to talk to each day and keep me sane has been much needed, but also a curse as it reminds me of what we briefly had.

I think if we hadn't gone into lockdown that the situation would have had much less of an effect on me, but working from home for a year with nothing but my thoughts for company makes it more difficult.

I have accepted that she only sees me as a friend, and that she says there is no chemistry or attraction from her side of things. However I will always be so confused as to how this happened as everything only started between us as she was attracted to me, in fact she didn't just say she fancied me she said she really fancied me and told me it is rare for her to find guys she fancies. And there was definite chemistry otherwise she wouldn't have invited me up to meet her girls for the first time just before all of this happened, she wouldn't have told me directly after finding out her ex was single that it made her really grateful for what she had with me and that she wanted to put on Facebook she was in a relationship.

I will always be confused by that and confused by the fact I know she doesn't want to be single, and I know she was really happy with me yet she doesn't even want to see if we can pick up on what we had. But then I guess grief has some unexplained effects on people. 

[KayC]

I stand by the "no contact" advice as it allows you a chance to heal and gain clarity and can also preserve whatever is left of her feelings, but barring that, it's painstaking and cutting through to the quick to see her move on with others.  I'm afraid Covid has complicated everything for everyone, as we can no longer get out socially as we once could have.  As you say, it does leave you alone with your thoughts too much.  I get out and walk 2-3 times a day with my puppy and that has helped a lot, as neighbors visit as I go by, we can still keep our distance but at least it's some contact!  I also have play dates with a neighbor's puppy for my own, almost every day, and that has been very helpful.  We do what we can to get by in these times!

[SimonFent]

Thanks Kay. I know you are right. At the start of all this she said to me she knew this would hurt me and if I wanted to cut contact she would understand. With the benefit of hindsight I wish I had done that there and then.

And yes strange times indeed. Glad to hear you are managing to get out and about, it does make such a difference. Thank you for your advice.

[SimonFent]

I thought seeing as this literally started two years ago today I would post an update on the slight possibility anyone is interested or anyone is still on these forums who offered advice originally.

SUMMARY OF ORIGINAL SITUATION

After years of being single (and not bothered by it) in the summer of 2019 I met someone thought the most bizarre set of circumstances. We made an instant connection and started dating and it was going really well. On Boxing Day afternoon 2019 she told me her first love had called her round to see her and told her his girlfriend has split up with him. She said it made her realise how lucky she was to have what she had with me and how well things were going between us and that she was ready to put on Facebook we were in a relationship. We were meeting the next day and she was going to introduce me to her kids.

WHAT THEN HAPPENED

A little bit later, on Boxing Day evening, her first love called her round again and told her he was in fact dying of cancer. She told me all these thoughts and feelings came out she never realised she still had and she didn't know what to do. 24 hours later she said she didn't have the capacity to carry on with what we had. A week later she was telling she loved her first love so much she wanted to marry him.

She gave me the option to cut contact, but I didn't. I couldn't believe what she was feeling for him was actual love, more shock/grief. I ended up supporting her through the next few months, as he died in March 2020, the week before we went into lockdown. I guess in my heart I thought she fancied me before (she drove everything originally when we first met), and that if I supported her and showed her what a good person I was she would want to be with me again. It didn't happen. We then went through a period of year from June 2020 to June 2021 where, with the exception of maybe 4 or 5 days, we spoke on WhatsApp video call every day, usually 2 or 3 times a day. She instigated 90% of the calls and I justified them to myself by saying it was good for me to speak to someone as I was in a lockdown for a lot of that period and live on my own.

Then in September 2020 a guy who she had lived next door to when she was a young teenager reappeared in her life temporarily, she hadn't seen him for 20 years. He told her he had been in love with her for all that time, and he wanted to leave his girlfriend of 20 years to be with her. She told me she could see a future with him, and a week later was telling me they'd talked about having a private ceremony somewhere and writing their own vows to each other. He then started getting cold feet and eventually ghosted her.

Our period of speaking every day came to an end in June 2021 when a guy she met through a friend of a friend a couple of years ago got back in touch with her. They went on a few dates, got engaged in September and married earlier this month.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY

So many people said I needed to cut contact. I decided against that due to the pandemic/lockdown/needing daily contact. Since she met this new guy we went from talking 2/3 times a day, to talking maybe 2/3 times a month and it has been the best thing that ever happened to me. It is obvious now that the daily contact was doing me no good at all, and almost as soon as we stopped talking (after maybe the initial first couple of weeks) I felt so much better and I am in such a better position now.

Anyway I think writing this all down is some kind of closure for me, I can't believe everything that was about to start to unfold this time two years ago, I should have listened to you all - especially you Kay!

[foreverhis]

@SimonFent  Welcome back.  I'm glad you came to talk to us and tell us what happened.  I'm sorry that things didn't work out the way you had hoped.  The bottom line is that we can give suggestions and advice, but you needed to follow your own path.  Where you go from now will be with the knowledge and experiences and, yes, pain you have gone through these past 2 years.

I'm going to be really bold and point out the obvious, even if you didn't ask:  It sounds to me as if the woman you loved really didn't know what she wanted or really where she was in her life.  I have no doubt her feelings for you were real, but she couldn't seem to shake going back to the past in her life; past loves, past friends, past relationships.  And she certainly does seem to jump in quickly.  There's nothing wrong with that when you're sure, as John and I were, but when you're floundering as she seemed to be, looking for a direction and not finding it, then it can be painful for everyone.

I'm ever so sorry that you kind of got "caught in the middle" of it.  Of course I hope she is happy; I do not wish her ill will.  But I hope you are able to find happiness and to move forward now that she has made a clean break by marrying someone else.  I believe that telling us everything may help you move forward toward a positive and loving relationship with a woman who will love you unreservedly.  You deserve to find the kind of love that so many of us here have had.

[Rhonda R]

I am so glad you cut ties AND you feel good about it. I’m blunt remember?  I’m sorry but, you don’t fall in love multiple times in your life in just one week. I believe that’s called codependent. Someone who really cares about you, won’t continue to do things they know hurt you. A relationship, no matter what kind, should be a give and take. She did all the taking and you did all the giving. This will help you set healthy boundaries in the future. You can still care about someone and set healthy boundaries for yourself. If they aren’t okay with that, let them walk away, they are a taker. I’m so happy for you, that you feel relief and you are happy!  Take care!

[SimonFent]

6 hours ago, foreverhis said:

@SimonFent  I'm going to be really bold and point out the obvious, even if you didn't ask:  It sounds to me as if the woman you loved really didn't know what she wanted or really where she was in her life.  I have no doubt her feelings for you were real, but she couldn't seem to shake going back to the past in her life; past loves, past friends, past relationships.  And she certainly does seem to jump in quickly. 

Yes you are totally right, it took me a while to notice this, too long in fact, but thank you for your kind words.

59 minutes ago, Rhonda R said:

I am so glad you cut ties AND you feel good about it. I’m blunt remember?  I’m sorry but, you don’t fall in love multiple times in your life in just one week. I believe that’s called codependent. Someone who really cares about you, won’t continue to do things they know hurt you. A relationship, no matter what kind, should be a give and take. She did all the taking and you did all the giving. This will help you set healthy boundaries in the future. You can still care about someone and set healthy boundaries for yourself. If they aren’t okay with that, let them walk away, they are a taker. I’m so happy for you, that you feel relief and you are happy!  Take care!

Yes you were totally right Rhonda, now I stepped away from it all it is so clear, I should have done that earlier. Thank you for all your advice, sorry I didn't listen more closely to you at the start!

[KayC]

@SimonFent  I am so sorry, I guess we always hope we'll be the exception.  My ex-fiance broke off with me suddenly by Fed Ex 11 1/2 years ago, we'd been engaged for a year and then that?  I learned the hard way.  It was when his mom was dying of cancer.  I've since learned that is a classic grief response as people feel they can't handle a relationship while they're dealing with that.  We have continued as friends but it can't work if one still harbors hope/wishes for something more, can easily lead to manipulation on their part and pressure felt by the other.  I knew we were done as a couple and having no contact had allowed me time to heal and move on with my life.  But I considered him valuable as a friend, so chose to continue as friends only, and am totally cool with that.  I haven't dated since.  Not because I wouldn't like someone in my life, not because I'm hung up on him, but because I have been through so much in my life, I had a husband that truly adored me and we were soulmates and I know my chance of finding someone that would even be a fraction of what we had is pretty slim to nothing....and I'm tired of trying.  I realize trying to fit a square peg into a round hole doesn't work.  I realize all that glitters in not gold.  And 16 1/2 years of living alone has taught me I'm okay, just me.  I've learned I can't fix other people.  If they aren't right for YOU, don't go for it!  I've learned to be choosy, I am valuable in and of myself, I don't "need" a partner.  It was my preference, but having married four times and engaged twice besides, I realize I didn't know how to pick them!  #1 was a monster, beat & cheated on me, I barely escaped with my life after six years of pure hell.  #2 was controlling and cold, he was my kids' dad, I tried my best but in the end, he got a divorced and married his "ideal" who turned out not to be.  He should have appreciated what he had and treated me better.  #3 was George, my soulmate and best friend, we had great communication and always understood each other.  We were extremely compatible, loved doing things together.  Then he died.  Way too young.  Shows my kind of luck.  #4 was a huge mistake when I was in grief fog, all my friends had disappeared overnight and he made contact with me telling me he was George's friend (which I rather doubt now!), preyed upon me in my vulnerability, married me but never lived with me (did live with other women while we were "married!) and stole my id and used my credit for $57,000, which I'll be paying on until I'm 80.  I had to remortgage my house and consolidate the medical bills left from George, and a car I had a loan on in order to avoid getting half my wages garnished and out on the street!  Hard lesson.  I could have filed bankruptcy but figured it wasn't the banks faults I got us into this, and crawling out the hard way really teaches a lesson never forgotten..   Both "fiances" broke up with me, first one had commitment phobia and other one a grief response.

So you can see why I'm tired.  And why I've now set the bar so high I'll probably never realize meeting someone like that, esp. as I do NOT do on line dating.  To me that's a whole other can of worms I don't want to open.  I'm a wise old buzzard now, for all the good it does me in my old age! 

It's easy to look back over our lives and see what we did wrong, but so much more important to move forward with the knowledge you've gleaned.  Rather than beating yourself up over "time wasted" realize sometimes this is a process and for you it's one that took longer but that's okay.  I have every hope you'll meet "the one" you'd hope to have in your life and all of this you will look back on as a lesson and preparation for that relationship!  

I agree with @Rhonda R with the the points she made.  She kept falling for different ones, changing her mind, I feel sorry for her husband as he's likely going to learn some hard life lessons and may well regret giving up his long term relationship.  (That one got away lucky).  Sounds like your ex didn't know what she wanted and is wishy washy!  I feel she used you to "be there" or possibly as a back-up plan.  I'm so glad you've moved on from all that!  I know it was painful and am glad it's over.

[SimonFent]

Thanks @KayC, you certainly have had a chequered history when it comes to relationships! Still at least you have made that connection with George, even if he is not here that is something to cherish, as many people never have that. It is definitely important to feel comfortable being alone and it is certainly better to be single for the right reasons than with someone for the wrong reasons. I appreciate your kind words and advice as well.

I do question how long the marriage will last. She got married ten years ago and it lasted six months, so more than that I hope!

Also her husband didn't give up a long-term relationship (although I can understand it is a confusing story!). The timeline went:

• Summer 2019 to Boxing Day 2019: I was dating her.
• Boxing Day 2019: Her first love told her he was dying, the next day she ended things with me and a week later was telling me she wanted to marry him. He died March 2020.
• September 2020: Her old next door neighbour who she hasn't seen for 20 years is back in town. Tells her he loves her and he will split up with his girlfriend of 20 years to be with her. A week later she is telling me they'd talked about having a private ceremony and writing their own vows to each other. He goes quiet and ghosts her over the next few weeks.
• June 2021: She reconnects with a friend of a friend who she met a few years previously briefly. They start dating, get engaged in September and married in December.

Either way, you are right I was used in some way, but like you I am glad it is over. I wish you all the very best for the future, you sounds like a very kind and sensible person.

[KayC]

I don't look at her as a bad person, just a bit confused perhaps.  I doubt she intended to lead anyone astray but just went with how things evolved for her.  Like foreverhis, I wish her the best but wouldn't hold my breath with her history.  I remember Dr. Phil saying, "When people show you who they are, believe them."  True.

You will be okay...you've seen the light.   And you're right, at least I had George for a few years, we had it all, for sure, it carries me...the rest of my life if need be. 

 

[Rhonda R]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:37 AM, SimonFent said:

Yes you were totally right Rhonda, now I stepped away from it all it is so clear, I should have done that earlier. Thank you for all your advice, sorry I didn't listen more closely to you at the start!

I don't think any one of us expected you to just take our advice.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Wouldn't we all do some things differently in our lives?  What I have found is, we are always going to have regrets, because we are not perfect.  We can only make the best decisions we know how, with the information we have at the time.