Members Jeff In Denver Posted January 13, 2020 Members Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 I went to a retreat in Fort Myers, Florida and got back at 1:00 this morning. It was intense, informational, but it still left me with some questions. I am going to say a few things here that you might not agree with, and that's fine. I'm just putting it out there. I'm not trying change anyone's mind or create conflict. If any of this interests you I hope you will explore further. Several of the presenters were certified by the Grief Recovery Method who had some useful things to say. The sessions were broken down into three basic areas: Grief, scientific-afterlife, and mediumship. I will relate a few things that I learned from the grief part here and then post a few other things in the "ADCs,Visions, and Dreams" section below. They said that 100% grief recovery is impossible when you lose the most important person in your life. As most of us know, Kubler-Ross's 5 stages described dying children and not people grieving. Those who believe that significant aspects of human personality survive physical death and that there will be a reunion tend to fare better that those who don't. They mentioned Stanford University's professors Larson and Hoyt who said that grief counseling is largely ineffective and could be harmful. Of course that's controversial. But I don't think you can use grief counseling as a one-size-fits-all tool. It's not. It probably helps some people who experience some types of grief, but not others. Personally, I felt better during the sessions, but an hour later I was right back where I was. My reality was/is the same. The Grief Recovery Method sees to be a viable way of dealing with grief. Dr. Alan Botkin's method using EMDR (eye-movement desensitization and reprocessing) could be worth looking into. The "time heals all wounds" platitude that we hear... No, it doesn't. Imagine this: Your friend breaks their leg and you ask them how it went with the doctor. Their answer: "I didn't go. I'm just going sit this out until it heals on its own." I met with two triple-blind-tested mediums and was very disappointed with the disjointed, non-relevant, non-reassuring words that I were told. Later today I will post more down below. Thoughts? Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MODArtemis2019 Posted January 16, 2020 Members Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 It does sound intense! How was it for you? Did it help? I've read some about the Grief Recovery Process. It seems like too much for right now, more than I could handle. Maybe in the future, I don't know. "They said that 100% grief recovery is impossible when you lose the most important person in your life." I don't find this type of statement helpful to me as a grieving person. I've heard others say it also, including grief counselors. Whether it's true or not, it doesn't give me hope for the future. I wish people would stop saying this to me, frankly. I don't believe in what mediums are selling, so I wouldn't go that route. But I'd like to learn more about the EMDR especially as applied to grief. Also curious about the grief counseling research. For me, my therapist is my lifeline. But she's not someone I just met; we have a long standing relationship. I think it would be hard for me to get "grief counseling" with a stranger. But I might if I had no other option. Research is fine for talking about groups of people and trends. but it doesn't tell us anything about how an individual will respond to therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlc Posted January 16, 2020 Members Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Yes, Jeff in Denver. I am very interested. I would like to ask you if your beliefs before and after the retreat are the same? How did it change you and your beliefs? Since my husband died, I have researched, read, investigated the afterlife/NDEs etc for almost two years. It is essential to me to not just hope but to believe. I believe that I have had messages from Terry in the form of dreams, feathers, electrical issues but when it cuts to the quick is it wishful thinking on our part? No one could want to believe more than me. I can assure you of that but I am also a realist and don't want to be clasping at straws that are not there. Oh, how I wish that I could just "have the faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators KayC Posted January 16, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 15 hours ago, Artemis2019 said: "They said that 100% grief recovery is impossible when you lose the most important person in your life." I don't find this type of statement helpful to me as a grieving person. I think that while we never fully "get over" them, it helps to understand that what our grief is like five years from now is different than it is today, which is different yet than it was at first. While we never stop missing or loving them, we do a fair amount of adjusting and get more used to being on our own, even though it's not our preference. Along the way we learn to cope. At least that is how it has been for me. I try not to compare my life now with the life I had with George because that's a real joy-killer, no kidding! My life is very different than it would be if he were still here. I miss him, I talk to him, I look forward to being with him again someday...in the meanwhile I try to live my life as best as I can. I've made friends, I've done my grief work, and I've done my best to build purpose and a life I can live in the here and now. Hope is so essential to the human soul. I am glad I have my faith but I watched others struggle that don't have that faith...it's something each of us must answer for ourselves. The only thing I can suggest if someone is struggling to believe is to try to keep your mind open to possibilities, try not to worry about what you can/can't disprove, but allow yourself to dwell on the what-ifs in a positive way. Watching videos of galaxies beyond...things we can't personally understand or prove but we believe in, not only helps us feel a connectivity to all of what is, but a realization that although we may not know everything, it doesn't take away from the fact that it is. It is a sense of spirituality in a way, which has nothing to do with "religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff In Denver Posted January 17, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Artemis2019 said: It does sound intense! How was it for you? Did it help? "They said that 100% grief recovery is impossible when you lose the most important person in your life." I don't find this type of statement helpful to me as a grieving person. I've heard others say it also, including grief counselors. Whether it's true or not, it doesn't give me hope for the future. I wish people would stop saying this to me, frankly. I think it helped a little. It was draining and sad, but I am glad I did it. One thing that stayed with me is the Dr.'s comment: "The idea that when a person dies they vanish is fiction. They are around us not because we want them to be (although we do), but because the evidence shows that." I am sorry that the comment about 100% grief recovery being impossible bothers you. Allow me to tell you what little I know. Let's say you break your wrist. You have a rough few months and then it heals. After a while you forget about it. Grief isn't like that. The person doesn't come back. Think of grief as being love turned inside out. The more you love the person the more it hurts. When they say that 100% healing is impossible I believe they mean that the person we lost stays a part of us. We will always feel the loss. Eventually we might remember the good they brought us more than the pain of the loss. To me, "recovery" means that we're able to continue our lives, moving forward with the person we lost and not leaving them behind. Imagine if you felt 90% normal. That would feel a lot better, but it's still not 100%. I don't see how our lives can be 100% normal after such a loss, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy life. What if you lost a leg? You'd get over the trauma and the logistical stuff, your life would resume, but there would also always be a reminder. In my view, that reminder in grief is not a bad thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff In Denver Posted January 17, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 16 hours ago, tlc said: Yes, Jeff in Denver. I am very interested. I would like to ask you if your beliefs before and after the retreat are the same? How did it change you and your beliefs? Since my husband died, I have researched, read, investigated the afterlife/NDEs etc for almost two years. It is essential to me to not just hope but to believe. I believe that I have had messages from Terry in the form of dreams, feathers, electrical issues but when it cuts to the quick is it wishful thinking on our part? No one could want to believe more than me. I can assure you of that but I am also a realist and don't want to be clasping at straws that are not there. Oh, how I wish that I could just "have the faith". TLC, good questions. It moved the needle a little. They made some very compelling, scientific arguments that there is a lot more out there. It has re-energized me toward learning more about this. Are you familiar with the non-profit Windbridge Institute? Dr. Raymond Moody? What you have mentioned could be very real. From what I gather, Terry is aware of you, loves you, and knows that your time apart is very short. Think of the reunion! I would suggest going to the Swedenborg channel on YouTube. They have some very interesting videos on this subject. Kay, you put it beautifully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff In Denver Posted January 18, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 I don't like posting URLs on articles, but I found this to be really interesting. You might, also. The Elephant in the Room of Grief By Beth Christopherson, LCSW https://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/exc_0316.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MODArtemis2019 Posted January 18, 2020 Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 On 1/16/2020 at 7:50 PM, Jeff In Denver said: I am sorry that the comment about 100% grief recovery being impossible bothers you. Eventually we might remember the good they brought us more than the pain of the loss. No need to apologize about anything you said. I mentioned it more to see if anyone else had a similar view. :) I look forward to the possibility of remembering my husband with the joy he gave me instead of the sorrow, misery and guilt that fills me now. I don't know how it will happen, but I hope it does. Although it's hard to believe it will just happen on its own with time - maybe I have to take steps to make it happen eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators KayC Posted January 19, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Artemis2019 said: I look forward to the possibility of remembering my husband with the joy he gave me instead of the sorrow, misery and guilt that fills me now. I don't know how it will happen, but I hope it does. Leeann just wrote about that very thing. I think in the beginning it's all doom and gloom, it takes time for us to process our grief and work through it and reach the point where we're filled with good memories and gratefulness for having had them in our lives...as opposed to being filled with sorrow over the multitude of losses we feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff In Denver Posted January 21, 2020 Author Members Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 10:12 AM, Artemis2019 said: No need to apologize about anything you said. I mentioned it more to see if anyone else had a similar view. I look forward to the possibility of remembering my husband with the joy he gave me instead of the sorrow, misery and guilt that fills me now. I don't know how it will happen, but I hope it does. Although it's hard to believe it will just happen on its own with time - maybe I have to take steps to make it happen eventually. Thanks. One thing I have learned is that many of us have guilt and regret, and it's hard to deal with. I have heard that one way to look at it is this: We did what we did (or didn't do) at the time, based on what we knew then. We couldn't have acted on what we didn't know then, and what we only know now. I hope that makes sense. I know that doesn't really help, but I think about that sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators KayC Posted January 22, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I've heard that quote before, that has been my experience. I didn't think it possible at first, but I was used to being 1/2 of a whole, I guess we can look at it that we were both whole but put us together and it was perfect! I still carry that George-shaped hole in my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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